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Madcow
02-17-2009, 08:55 PM
I am getting ready to put new stailess rub rail on my 18. Who has done this? How did you bend the corners? Were did you put the seams? What length segments did you use? In short....HELP!!

mattyboy
02-17-2009, 09:04 PM
not sure on the SS but i have done aluminum rail in 12 foot sections on a 20 footer, started right in the middle of a strip right across the nose the seams ended up in the back. tips
screw one at a time bend and make turns as you go
use a file and bevel the edges that meet to minimize the joint line, as you screw it in you can use a hammer handle to make arches and bends the alum is pretty easy to work with ss it gonna be a bit harder

a second set of hands is a must

gcarter
02-17-2009, 09:27 PM
I don't know of anyone that makes "J" section rail in SST. Maybe they do, but I've not found any.
But a lot can be done w/the Taco Metals aluminum rail.
For instance, on the Minx, I had it powder coated. I've been thinking of a platinum (silver) powdercoat rail on the TR.
There's a shop here in Leesburg that has 25' or so long ovens. It could be shipped inside of a piece of pipe.

Lenny
02-17-2009, 11:19 PM
TACO has SS George I believe. Anyways, as Matty pointed out, start at the bow in the center of the 12' strip. Bend a bit left and right FROM the bow. Start running in the screws as you down the side(s) . Do port and starboard. Then do the transom the same way. Center it and carry on. Then take the two other twelves and cut them and fill in the spaces along port and starboard.

:)

Conquistador_del_mar
02-18-2009, 01:46 AM
I am getting ready to put new stailess rub rail on my 18. Who has done this? How did you bend the corners? Were did you put the seams? What length segments did you use? In short....HELP!!

You probably bought the rounded hollow back SS 1" rubrail - hopefully in 12' sticks. Your biggest problem will be at the back corners where it will not want to bend around the corners without smashing it flat. I always preferred the look of cutting the rubrail at 45 degree angles where the transom piece and side pieces meet to keep the rubrail's rounded look. If you start at the bow as others have said by wrapping the first piece back 6' on each side, you can then install the next 12' sticks to within about a foot of the transom on your 18'. You can then install the short pieces to the transom, being sure to entend them enough to meet perfectly at the corners. This is where you will spend most of your time getting the corners right (Sawsall, grinder, and a good file). If you don't have any waste, you will have about 4' left over from your 4 sticks - enough to replace those short stern side pieces if you bump a dock and damage the back corners. You will probably want to do it this way even if you bought the SS solid sticks. As George pointed out, the SS rubrail you bought will not have the J or lip to wrap under the deck's gunwale. There will be a very small open area at the corners from where it can not follow the slightly rounded corners, but I personally think it looks much better than smashing it flat to make the bends. My two cents, Bill

PS You can install the rubrail by yourself with the help of duct tape to hold the pieces in place as you work, but it is easier with another set of hands. I have installed at least 40 sets of rubrail of all types by myself using tape.

Morgan's Cloud
02-18-2009, 07:01 AM
When Phil found out that I was re-installing mine a while back (although I wasn't really looking for advice) he suggested the tape thing too .

I've done this a few times and I cannot imagine doing it singlehanded using tape ... Not sure if it's that much harder with S/S inch and a quarter stripping compared to alum. though.

Just remember , those ends are extremely sharp and you've put a ton of work into the finish on that thing.Handling that railing alone is like pushing a worm back down the hole it came out of ....

Definitely put the bow and transom pieces on first as it's easier to trim the 'straight' side pieces to the right length later.

I've never had a problem wrapping the stern section around the corners which is lucky as I would hate having to get the angles/fit right if I cut the rail.

Steve

mattyboy
02-18-2009, 07:19 AM
george is right i had half round or U shaped ss on the 16 all the SS stuff i have seen is that way
with the alum stuff it is easy to get a nice arch
we i had a better pic but that is the arched transom on the cig and the really arched transom on a barrellback both done in alum

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=42669&d=1233176950

Conquistador_del_mar
02-18-2009, 10:11 AM
When Phil found out that I was re-installing mine a while back (although I wasn't really looking for advice) he suggested the tape thing too .

I've done this a few times and I cannot imagine doing it singlehanded using tape ... Not sure if it's that much harder with S/S inch and a quarter stripping compared to alum. though.

Just remember , those ends are extremely sharp and you've put a ton of work into the finish on that thing.Handling that railing alone is like pushing a worm back down the hole it came out of ....

Definitely put the bow and transom pieces on first as it's easier to trim the 'straight' side pieces to the right length later.

I've never had a problem wrapping the stern section around the corners which is lucky as I would hate having to get the angles/fit right if I cut the rail.

Steve

Steve,
The advice I was giving was only for installing SS rubrail. It is a much more difficult material to work with than aluminum rubrail. The J style Taco aluminum will fairly easily make the bends around the relatively sharp transom corners, but SS will not. Aluminum will also make arch bends if the boat has slight arches in the transom. I just want to clarify that I would not cut aluminum rubrail at the transom corners - only SS. Bill

Ghost
02-18-2009, 11:12 AM
You probably bought the rounded hollow back SS 1" rubrail - hopefully in 12' sticks. Your biggest problem will be at the back corners where it will not want to bend around the corners without smashing it flat. I always preferred the look of cutting the rubrail at 45 degree angles where the transom piece and side pieces meet to keep the rubrail's rounded look. If you start at the bow as others have said by wrapping the first piece back 6' on each side, you can then install the next 12' sticks to within about a foot of the transom on your 18'. You can then install the short pieces to the transom, being sure to entend them enough to meet perfectly at the corners. This is where you will spend most of your time getting the corners right (Sawsall, grinder, and a good file). If you don't have any waste, you will have about 4' left over from your 4 sticks - enough to replace those short stern side pieces if you bump a dock and damage the back corners. You will probably want to do it this way even if you bought the SS solid sticks. As George pointed out, the SS rubrail you bought will not have the J or lip to wrap under the deck's gunwale. There will be a very small open area at the corners from where it can not follow the slightly rounded corners, but I personally think it looks much better than smashing it flat to make the bends. My two cents, Bill

PS You can install the rubrail by yourself with the help of duct tape to hold the pieces in place as you work, but it is easier with another set of hands. I have installed at least 40 sets of rubrail of all types by myself using tape.

Isolating replaceable corners sounds like a good idea--never thought about that. I've not done a rubrail, but listening to the discussion about the corners and the way they flatten out, would it work to notch the top and bottom (where the U shape is most pronounced) and leave the center intact, so the cross-section will not deform so much around the corners?

Just an idea, but seems like it might work and be easier than tryinng to make two separate pieces meet.

gcarter
02-18-2009, 12:11 PM
I personally don't understand why anyone would want the semi-round SST rail w/o the "J" section. It will definately look unfinished with the raw edge of the shoe box joint fiberglass showing.
The "J" section aluminum rail covers up a lot of sins.

gcarter
02-18-2009, 12:13 PM
I would also like to say that the powdercoated aluminum TACO rail held up better than anything I've ever seen....except maybe for black rubber.

VetteLT193
02-18-2009, 12:24 PM
I personally don't understand why anyone would want the semi-round SST rail w/o the "J" section. It will definately look unfinished with the raw edge of the shoe box joint fiberglass showing.
The "J" section aluminum rail covers up a lot of sins.

It doesn't show anything that I can tell. I think it actually lays down a bit flatter than the stock rail because the J part is missing so it sucks up to the bottom half of the hull closer.

Morgan's Cloud
02-18-2009, 01:13 PM
QUOTE=VetteLT193;495677]It doesn't show anything that I can tell. I think it actually lays down a bit flatter than the stock rail because the J part is missing so it sucks up to the bottom half of the hull closer.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for saving me the extra typing Vette ,... :biggrin.:

I agree with George's logic completely , but for some strange reason in real life I haven't experienced it yet ...

Conquistador_del_mar
02-18-2009, 01:31 PM
It doesn't show anything that I can tell. I think it actually lays down a bit flatter than the stock rail because the J part is missing so it sucks up to the bottom half of the hull closer.

Could you show the transom corners so we can see how you treated the bend? Thanks, Bill

VetteLT193
02-18-2009, 02:12 PM
Could you show the transom corners so we can see how you treated the bend? Thanks, Bill
All the ones I have are too far away to get any clear detail. there is one in the keys run thread, under events and gatherings, that has a transom shot with just me behind the wheel... still far though.

We have to ask my brother to post one up, it's his boat (donzi2287)

I haven't updated mine yet, but I'll do SS. To me, with the stainless windshield and everything else stainless on the boat, it just looks better.

gcarter
02-18-2009, 02:21 PM
It doesn't show anything that I can tell. I think it actually lays down a bit flatter than the stock rail because the J part is missing so it sucks up to the bottom half of the hull closer.
In your picture, is it showing the bottum of the shoe box joint as not covered by the rail?

VetteLT193
02-18-2009, 02:42 PM
In your picture, is it showing the bottum of the shoe box joint as not covered by the rail?

no... just the flat surface running up to it. you can see it with the J style rail too. (Assuming I understand what you are saying)

two more pics

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31852&d=1190817880

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31853&d=1190817880

mrfixxall
02-18-2009, 06:04 PM
I am getting ready to put new stailess rub rail on my 18. Who has done this? How did you bend the corners? Were did you put the seams? What length segments did you use? In short....HELP!!

If you going to put the newer style ss rubrail on with the nylon rub rail under it on a older boat it wont fit unless you plan on raising the deck..the newer classics have a wider area where the rub rail screws to.When i did my x18 i was going to put the bi rubrail on it but measured it and had to go back to the j style rub rail which was 3/4 wide and the vynal rubrail with the ss insert was 1 1/4 wide..

i first measured the center of the first piece of the j style rub rail and made my bend around the nose of the boat and screwed it in place using sealer on every screw. then i did the same on the back of the boat and filled in the cented on both side of the boat.


http://tacomarine.com/item--1-1-4-X-9-16-Rigid-Rub-Rail--V21-9648.html

http://tacomarine.com/item--3-4-x-3-8-Aluminum-Rub-Rail--A11-0151.html

Madcow
04-01-2009, 08:51 PM
OK I got it done this week. As some of you know I bought a second 18 for parts, then sold that was left over to a friend of mine. I used his boat to bend the rail which worked out perfectly. This would have been a nightmare if I had tried to bend this on my boat. I guess the best advice I can give to anyone who is restoring a boat and planing on replacing the rub rail is bend the new stuff before you do any body work.

I did use the semi round 1" stainless. I used 16' pieces. 1 at the front, 1 at the back, and 2 6 footers in the middle. It did not have a "J" hook underneath however it actualy fits against the hull pretty good. I'm going to fill the bottom all the way around with clear silicone. I was looking ay a Cig Tiger with the same rub rail last week and that is what they have done and the finnished product looks good.

I also squrted a little 5200 in each of the screw holes to hopefully keep them from backing out.

Conquistador_del_mar
04-01-2009, 11:18 PM
OK I got it done this week. As some of you know I bought a second 18 for parts, then sold that was left over to a friend of mine. I used his boat to bend the rail which worked out perfectly. This would have been a nightmare if I had tried to bend this on my boat. I guess the best advice I can give to anyone who is restoring a boat and planing on replacing the rub rail is bend the new stuff before you do any body work.

I did use the semi round 1" stainless. I used 16' pieces. 1 at the front, 1 at the back, and 2 6 footers in the middle. It did not have a "J" hook underneath however it actualy fits against the hull pretty good. I'm going to fill the bottom all the way around with clear silicone. I was looking ay a Cig Tiger with the same rub rail last week and that is what they have done and the finnished product looks good.

I also squrted a little 5200 in each of the screw holes to hopefully keep them from backing out.

Your boat looks great. I meant to take a picture of the Magnum I am restoring to show another method of making the transom corner using hollow back SS rubrail. They had cut the transom piece a little past the corner and brought the side piece back with grinding the end to fit into the recessed hollow area of the transom piece by rounding it with a grinder. I can try to take a picture of the resulting corner since i have not thrown out the pieces. Thanks for showing your boat, Bill

gcarter
04-02-2009, 04:42 AM
Very nice looking boat/trailer combination.

rustnrot
04-02-2009, 06:59 AM
Nice. Did you actually overlap the lower part of the sst rub rail under the raw bottom edge of the top deck (the rub rail would be slightly slanted) or did you run the lower edge of the rub rail flush and even with the bottom edge? The latter being you could actually see the raw edge if you got down and looked up from below.

Did you use 3/4" or 1" wide sst rub rail?

Morgan's Cloud
04-02-2009, 07:03 AM
Nice ......very , VERY nice !

A perfect example of what you get when you take your time doing a complete rebuild on a classic :worthy:

(and that's the 1st time I've ever used that icon !)

Madcow
04-02-2009, 07:27 AM
Nice. Did you actually overlap the lower part of the sst rub rail under the raw bottom edge of the top deck (the rub rail would be slightly slanted) or did you run the lower edge of the rub rail flush and even with the bottom edge? The latter being you could actually see the raw edge if you got down and looked up from below.

Did you use 3/4" or 1" wide sst rub rail?

I used 1" rail. It hangs about a 1/4" or so over. So the bottm of the rail actualy tucks in some so the gap between the rail and the hull is not that much. I will post some lower pics later.
One thing I did consider doing was pie slicing the top and bottom of the rail at the corners, bending it into place, and welding and poishing it and if the corner would have looked to off that is what I would have done but I don't think it looks that bad.

BigGrizzly
04-02-2009, 09:37 AM
Just to clear some air, My sister and I have been looking for SS J rail for 35 years and it is not made My grand dad said if it was you could not bend the corners it would have to be a machined part. On the Criterion I had to heat the bow benf then polished it for 3 hours. I will not do it again. Next time it is J rail or bumper rail all the way. Madcow that boat is really nice, I would like to see more pictures of body and engine compartment too Love the color.:yes::yes::yes::worthy:

mrfixxall
04-02-2009, 10:23 AM
I'm going to fill the bottom all the way around with clear silicone............?


Dont do a continous bead all the way around the boat,if water get trapped behind the molding it can freeze and expand pull the rubrail from the hull..leave a few gaps in the bead for drainage:beer:

Lenny
04-02-2009, 10:33 AM
OK I got it done this week.

Very cool colour :yes: Looks great :)

seano
04-07-2009, 12:38 PM
OK I got it done this week. As some of you know I bought a second 18 for parts, then sold that was left over to a friend of mine. I used his boat to bend the rail which worked out perfectly. This would have been a nightmare if I had tried to bend this on my boat. I guess the best advice I can give to anyone who is restoring a boat and planing on replacing the rub rail is bend the new stuff before you do any body work.

I did use the semi round 1" stainless. I used 16' pieces. 1 at the front, 1 at the back, and 2 6 footers in the middle. It did not have a "J" hook underneath however it actualy fits against the hull pretty good. I'm going to fill the bottom all the way around with clear silicone. I was looking ay a Cig Tiger with the same rub rail last week and that is what they have done and the finnished product looks good.

I also squrted a little 5200 in each of the screw holes to hopefully keep them from backing out.

Looks nice! When I bent the SS on the 28 Cigarette, it was already painted, so I was a bit nervous. I ended up putting several layers of duct tape on the corners and doing the majority of the bending over the tape. Once I had it close, I removed the tape and finished it up...no nicks, scrapes or scratches. :0