Scoop thoughts!

[MOP]

Not to hijack the current thread, started my own. What is the general thinking on the way a scoop faces? My thinking is we get more then enough air into our compartments but have a hard time getting rid of the heated air which hurts performance, is it not batter to try to suck as much hot air out. I have been thinking about the hot air issue for quite awhile, a couple of 1K runs back the pin came out of my steering connector. It was so hot in the engine bay I had to wait nearly an hour before I could get it back together, thanks to TONY I was able to push a rope behind his 16 to get back to the Edgewood. I have been eye balling various scoops since and would face mine aft to try to suck the hot air out.

[Carl C]

I like the Teaque scoop.

[mattyboy]

I like the Teaque scoop.


you're funny a swim platform ruins the lines of a classic but you like a scoop??????? a platform is down behind the boat but a scoop is right there all the time in plain sight

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

[Carl C]

you're funny a swim platform ruins the lines of a classic but you like a scoop??????? a platform is down behind the boat but a scoop is right there all the time in plain sight

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: You're right, Matty, I would be real reluctant to put one on but when I repower, which won't be for a while yet, I may need one for function. It would be real hard to take a jigsaw to my hatch, will you come and do it for me? I don't think those little chrome vents are sufficient for a big hp engine. I DO prefer no scoop but performance trumps looks. For stock power I would say no scoop. For big power it may be a neccesary evil. No swim platform though.

[Ghost]

Time to build a mini-hatch that acts as a scoop when you pop it open, so you can turn it up to 11.

[Donziweasel]

Foward if it is a low profile Shelby type (I know they are dual scoops on the Shelby, but one of those would like nice). Rear facing if it is a higher profile one.

I think I am heading the scoop route with the repower on the Critter due to the engine height. Don't want to, and it will be just tall enough to clear the spark arrester with a 1/2 inch to spare.

[VetteLT193]

You're right, Matty, I would be real reluctant to put one on but when I repower, which won't be for a while yet, I may need one for function. It would be real hard to take a jigsaw to my hatch, will you come and do it for me? I don't think those little chrome vents are sufficient for a big hp engine. I DO prefer no scoop but performance trumps looks. For stock power I would say no scoop. For big power it may be a neccesary evil. No swim platform though.

There is also air that runs in through the hull, all the way in front of the foot-rests. you could also add one inside the cockpit like the old 16's had for a more stealth look.

Personally, if a scoop is added, the Shelby hatch wins hands down.

[mattyboy]

You're right, Matty, I would be real reluctant to put one on but when I repower, which won't be for a while yet, I may need one for function. It would be real hard to take a jigsaw to my hatch, will you come and do it for me? I don't think those little chrome vents are sufficient for a big hp engine. I DO prefer no scoop but performance trumps looks. For stock power I would say no scoop. For big power it may be a neccesary evil. No swim platform though.
there is no midway here Carl, if in your mind as you have said you like how the go fast stuff looks on the transom, rams, lines , hoses and brackets and stuff, and now you say that performance trumps looks. you feel that performance is more important than looks and classic lines, which is fine there are alot of go fast ugly boats, then there are the ones from the school of thought that feel the classic lines are more important than being the fastest, and the style and mystique of the classic is what it is all about.
but then every once an a while you come across a genius that has figured it all out and can have both seems a 1100 + hp in mighty mouse didn't need a scoop !!!! :yes:

[mattyboy]

again I am not the sharpest tool in the shed but if you have a scoop and it is letting air in where does that air go??????

Carl if you want i can call pearson he can make you a custom scoop maybe even mold it after a lighthouse with candy cane stripes :tongue:

[Carl C]

First of all, Vette may be on to something. There may be a way to vent the engine room better without adding a scoop. In fact if I could change it I would say no scoop. Matty, I am all for restoring a classic boat to original condition but I feel that the Donzi Classics are still a viable high performance boat. Mr. X is running over 100 mph:worthy:. I would like to some day run near 90. Again, if I need to install one it will be reluctantly and it will not be any time soon. It is also a good point that a scoop will allow lots of air in but the only way out is the two small vents and one of those has to go through the fan and hose. Maybe some kind of ram air would be the answer. This is a good topic. Thanks, Mop.

[Trueser]

Matty

I think he also needs a scoop for the cabin, I would imagine it gets hot up under there. The fan he has mounted should be changed to a ceiling fan.

Just kidding Carl....... I do think you made the forward space more usable.

[mattyboy]

Matty

I think he also needs a scoop for the cabin, I would imagine it gets hot up under there. The fan he has mounted should be changed to a ceiling fan.

Just kidding Carl....... I do think you made the forward space more usable.




ROTFLMAO !!!!!!

THANKS TRUESER THAT BELLY LAUGHED JUST LET EVERYONE IN THE OFFICE KNOW I AM NOT DOING MY PAPER WORK ;) :) :kingme:

[BUIZILLA]

if the boat goes forward why would you want an opposite facing inlet air scoop?

[Carl C]

Mattyboy, here is a classic with a busy transom and scoops:

[Just Say N20]

Matty

I think he also needs a scoop for the cabin, I would imagine it gets hot up under there. The fan he has mounted should be changed to a ceiling fan.

Just kidding Carl....... I do think you made the forward space more usable.

From elsewhere:


Sutphen 22 is gorgeous, 3 I/O models available, 3 outboard versions too, smart marketing move with 6 models on same hull combo, with a 496-425 it bumps the rev limiter with a 29 prop... do the math on that one... welllll in the 80's.... about 600#'s lighter than our 22's with an actual under foredeck that is VERY usable... superior tool work... this is a NICE boat.... with a 300XS Merc this would be a rocket, and pocket affordable... why won't Donzi do this with the 22?

Carl is just ahead of the curve. :yes:

[mattyboy]

First of all, Vette may be on to something. There may be a way to vent the engine room better without adding a scoop. In fact if I could change it I would say no scoop. Matty, I am all for restoring a classic boat to original condition but I feel that the Donzi Classics are still a viable high performance boat. Mr. X is running over 100 mph:worthy:. I would like to some day run near 90. Again, if I need to install one it will be reluctantly and it will not be any time soon. It is also a good point that a scoop will allow lots of air in but the only way out is the two small vents and one of those has to go through the fan and hose. Maybe some kind of ram air would be the answer. This is a good topic. Thanks, Mop.

ok so now you say no scoop???

I guess my point is Carl the donzi classics new and old a very capable performance boats but there are more capable boats out there. the donzi combines the best of all worlds speed looks sound heritage better than any other boat PERIOD !!! But there are more capable hulls out there if you want speed and will handle the same type water and usually do this with less power.

Ted's Ilmor edition is awesome and true to it classic heritage no big pro stocker scoop or cut out hatch just a factory type shelby hatch, and with a 22 foot hull going at or near 90 there are a handful of people i would trust driving Ted happens to be one of them. my point if I were looking for safe reliable speeds around 90 it would not be in any classic hull 16 18 or 22. now the 24 hull is a different story

[mattyboy]

Mattyboy, here is a classic with a busy transom and scoops:


Carl,

you don't get it do you, that is a race boat it is not supposed to look good just go fast or really just finish first. a donzi classic is more about how you look getting there not just how fast you get there

btw that transom is not all that cluttered and if in fact very tiddy. but if it were my daily driver the guy who drilled the exhaust holes would not be high on my list

[maddad]

Phil, I can't see using a scoop over the air cleaner/flame arrester to vent hot air out. The motor wants the coolest air you can feed it. Use the scoop to overload the air intake area with cool fresh air, or isolate the intake to the scoop. Get the heated air out some other way.

[DC18]

Phil, I can't see using a scoop over the air cleaner/flame arrester to vent hot air out. The motor wants the coolest air you can feed it. Use the scoop to overload the air intake area with cool fresh air, or isolate the intake to the scoop. Get the heated air out some other way.

Agree. :yes: Use the scoop for engine air only. Let the compartment air vent out as designed.

[Choprpilot]

I have to admit it this topic was getting serious but the humor is over the top.. Outstanding. I was considering the idea but can't bring myself to cutting a hole in my engine hatch. A new hatch from Donzi is just under a grand and has a blister for more clearance just a note to anyone else that has pondered this idea also. I have checked the dimensions from my 1987 18 hatch against my sons 2004 and they are the same.

[olredalert]

-------One of a kind Bertram restored racer and stock 22 classic with too much horsepower for the owner. Oh yah,,,I see the parallels there.........Bill S

[Carl C]

-------One of a kind Bertram restored racer and stock 22 classic with too much horsepower for the owner. Oh yah,,,I see the parallels there.........Bill S Your getting a little froggy there lately aren't you buddy? Aren't you the one who showed me Brown's Bar? Aren't you the one who brought his own cooler of beer aboard my boat when we went for a cruise across Lake St. Clair? How soon they forget.

Maybe this Corsican docked at the bar will ring a bell. Good thing you sold it.

[olredalert]

------Beer was needed to take that ride. Never again..........Bill S

[Carl C]

Never again Got that right.

[Tony]

Early Ski Sporters had a faux grille on the aft deck between the transom and the hatch. If it were functional (it was not) might that be a feasible way to allow warm compartment air to exhaust?

Phil, that was one HOT day...coupled with your extreme proximity to the engine heat. I admire you for the verbal self-control you displayed, especially since that "fu*#^ing steering pin would just not fu*#^ing cooporate"! :eek:

Cherrie and I had a lot of fun on that trip, we hope to make it back one of these years. BTW, I sent frclarke a PM and haven't heard back from him yet...do you know if another Lake Muskoka gathering is planned?

:beer:

[Ghost]

I wasn't following too closely and a re-skim didn't get me there. What's with the talk about trying to find a way to get the hot air OUT of the engine compartment?

Motor hot but switched off, I assume, is the time you're concerned about? (Underway, unless the motor's air intake were actually isolated, meaning sealed off so getting air ONLY from the scoop, I have trouble imagining a scoop that could direct the flow in such a controlled fashion, and an intake that would "catch" this stream, as to preclude a LOT of mixing of "new" air from outside with the existing air in the motorbox, and failing to turn over the motorbox air pretty regularly and quickly, like once a minute or so. Wow, what a run-on sentence.)

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Not to hijack the current thread, started my own. What is the general thinking on the way a scoop faces? My thinking is we get more then enough air into our compartments but have a hard time getting rid of the heated air which hurts performance, is it not batter to try to suck as much hot air out. I have been thinking about the hot air issue for quite awhile, a couple of 1K runs back the pin came out of my steering connector. It was so hot in the engine bay I had to wait nearly an hour before I could get it back together, thanks to TONY I was able to push a rope behind his 16 to get back to the Edgewood. I have been eye balling various scoops since and would face mine aft to try to suck the hot air out.

The scoop on my 1971 18' came from the factory facing aft. The biggest drawback is if you stop too quickly or a large wave hits from the stern. I have had at least 10 times over the years back in the 70s where the water flooded the engine to the point of my having to pull the spark plugs to get the water out of the cylinders. I do agree that if the scoop is large like this one, it should be facing backwards for appearance but forward if it is a smaller scoop like the Shelby. If you are careful with an aft facing scoop, I think they can be beneficial. In my case, a scoop was mandatory to accomodate the high rise LT1 intake and carburetor. The original flame arrestor came a little over the top of the engine cover through the hole. Bill
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj316/Conquistador_del_mar/Enginecover-painted.jpg

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj316/Conquistador_del_mar/Comingtogether.jpg

[mattyboy]

before the clam shell vents were added to the 16 in 1967 the bilge was ventilated by a small hvac vent in the base of the rear seat and there was a louvre vent as tony said but it was functional and contained the blower some also had a stern light in it usually 3-5 holes were drilled in the rear deck lip. when the 2 clam shell vents were added the hvac vent remained and the louvre did( just for the light) also but it was not functional for ventilation the clam shells had the blower. once the 4 clamshell vents appeared the hvac vent and the louvre vent faded out

the 72 cig we redid also had a longer hvac vent in it I'll see if i can dig up pics

[Carl C]

My '82 Mustang has a forward facing, functional scoop. One day after washing it there was a small thread from the wash cloth stuck under the front edge of the scoop. As I drove down the road this thread blew forward! Hmmm, maybe it's not so functional! I believe that if a forward facing scoop is to draw air it needs to be elevated, pro-stock style like the Teaque scoop or the ones on the Bertram I posted. I think that a functional, raised scoop plumbed direct to the intake would be the best way to go. Let the factory vents do their job with the engine room air. I am talking for best performance, not neccessarily best appearance.

Thanks everyone for not escalating things on this thread.:) I was afraid to look.:lookaroun:

[Donziweasel]

It is my understanding that a rear facing scoop creates a vacuum underway drawing air into the bildge.

I do not think a scoop on a Donzi classic is needed for performance. For example, take the interior dimensions of your bildge minus the engine and figure out how many cubic feet are in there. Let's say you have a 100. Now, figure out your intake CFM. Let's say you have a 750 CFM carb. You would have to replace all the air in the bidge 7.5 times per minute. The clam shell vents and the vents by the two front seats can fill that area in a couple of seconds underway if not a second.

[mattyboy]

as yogi berra would say deja vu all over again

this all seems vaguely familiar to me,


ummm where have i seen this before

could it be ?? nah, maybe???

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2246&highlight=hood+scoop+direction

[Carl C]

THIS is a Classic lol :). Especially the lit up fake dog poop! :). From Scott Pearson:


I would mount that thing on the deck. Right where the fuel filler goes(Crazy Glue should do it). Then I would get 6" PVC pipe with 90 degree elbows and run them from the under side of the scoop, Down under the deck, Then up through the floor, then back down under the floor behind the front seats, Into the motor compartment, then back up through the deck where the front (stock) vents would mount, Then I would shoot the PVC stright up 10 feet and put some COOL tractor trailer exhaust flappers on the ends (This will keep the water out). Then I would paint the stacks like Candy Cains and wear a ski mask and a Santa Clause outfit with boxer shorts and one of those cat in the hat hats. Then I would put one of those Crash Test Dummies next to me in the seat and dress him up like Bozo the Clown with a a Dolly Parton wig. In the back seat I would chain an Ostrich in and feed him Captin Crunch, But instead of Milk in the bowl I would put BEER and crushed up Tums. The Ostrich would be dyed pink (This way people would think he was a big drunk Flimingo) I would also put one of those fake pile of dog crap (You know...the rubber one that everyone had when they where a kid)and Screw it down where the Bow light would be. This way it would light up and looked like a Nucular pile of Crap when I turned the Lights on. I would also add a dish that I could fill with jelly beans next to the shifter. I would then make all the gauges out of silly puddy with news paper cartoons on them. Then I would rip the carpet out and redo it with the FUN FUR ( you know... that stuff that everyone glued to the dash board of the old vans). I would also bolt bird feeders on the transom(this way I would always have company following me). Then I would plant beans in the center storage compartment so I would be able to make bean soup when I get hungry. Then I would Pin stripe the living crap out of my boat with crazy string and drive around all day making funny fart faces.

My 2 Cents!

(NJ)Scott

[BigGrizzly]

I am staying out of this because it is already getting out of hand with carb size and the working of the scoop, which won't make one repeat one MPH difference, only subjective looks to the owner and it IS his boat:yes:

[Ghost]

THIS is a Classic haha. Especially the lit up fake dog poop! hehehe. From Scott Pearson:


I would mount that thing on the deck. Right where the fuel filler goes(Crazy Glue should do it). Then I would get 6" PVC pipe with 90 degree elbows and run them from the under side of the scoop, Down under the deck, Then up through the floor, then back down under the floor behind the front seats, Into the motor compartment, then back up through the deck where the front (stock) vents would mount, Then I would shoot the PVC stright up 10 feet and put some COOL tractor trailer exhaust flappers on the ends (This will keep the water out). Then I would paint the stacks like Candy Cains and wear a ski mask and a Santa Clause outfit with boxer shorts and one of those cat in the hat hats. Then I would put one of those Crash Test Dummies next to me in the seat and dress him up like Bozo the Clown with a a Dolly Parton wig. In the back seat I would chain an Ostrich in and feed him Captin Crunch, But instead of Milk in the bowl I would put BEER and crushed up Tums. The Ostrich would be dyed pink (This way people would think he was a big drunk Flimingo) I would also put one of those fake pile of dog crap (You know...the rubber one that everyone had when they where a kid)and Screw it down where the Bow light would be. This way it would light up and looked like a Nucular pile of Crap when I turned the Lights on. I would also add a dish that I could fill with jelly beans next to the shifter. I would then make all the gauges out of silly puddy with news paper cartoons on them. Then I would rip the carpet out and redo it with the FUN FUR ( you know... that stuff that everyone glued to the dash board of the old vans). I would also bolt bird feeders on the transom(this way I would always have company following me). Then I would plant beans in the center storage compartment so I would be able to make bean soup when I get hungry. Then I would Pin stripe the living crap out of my boat with crazy string and drive around all day making funny fart faces.

My 2 Cents!

(NJ)Scott

This is HILARIOUS! (And not unlike the dreams my wife is famous for telling me about in the morning, just less surreal.)

[Ed Donnelly]

Mattyboy; Just what kind of memory do you have???

I CAN'T REMEMBER YESTERDAY, LET ALONE 8 1/2 YEARS AGO:nilly: ..Ed

[Donziweasel]

Forget the 750CFM carb (are you aware that you can flow 750CFM through a 7/8 orifice?) just do the math on your engine: Theoretical cfm = rpm x displacement / 3456...

Each vent is what, 3" diameter opening? HELL of a lot of flow there.. If you size the air cleaner properly, your golden...


Bill, LMAO, I caught that

It's been a long winter, hasn't it?

[mattyboy]

ed,

it goes in streaks all of a sudden things pop in then they pop out ;)


seems like along time ago, some funny stuff back then


sorry carl if you don't like the classics

[boxy]

ed,
it goes in streaks all of a sudden things pop in then they pop out ;)
seems like along time ago, some funny stuff back then
sorry carl if you don't like the classics


Towel Boy ..... :D

I hadn't thought of that in awhile.

[Carl C]

ed,

it goes in streaks all of a sudden things pop in then they pop out ;)


seems like along time ago, some funny stuff back then


sorry carl if you don't like the classics

Huh? Why do you think I got one? Remember they still make them so are the new ones "classics" or are they Classic models. They are constantly updated with new equipment and now come with aluminum fairings, full hydraulic steering and (probably useless) hood scoops! Really this thread is convincing me to never install a scoop. I really don't want to change my boats appearance much. Matty, I love all of the Classics and maybe some stuff didn't come out right here and some other bad stuff had to come out but I "like the classics". And I love the long winded way that Scott Pearson basically said "don't put on a scoop". Writing genious.

[mattyboy]

Huh? Why do you think I got one? Remember they still make them so are the new ones "classics" or are they Classic models. They are constantly updated with new equipment and now come with aluminum fairings, full hydraulic steering and (probably useless) hood scoops! Really this thread is convincing me to never install a scoop. I really don't want to change my boats appearance much. Matty, I love all of the Classics and maybe some stuff didn't come out right here and some other bad stuff had to come out but I "like the classics". And I love the long winded way that Scott Pearson basically said "don't put on a scoop". Writing genious.


Carl, I wasn't talkin about the boats i was talkin about the classic pearson post and the ha ha comment you made it gave me the impression you didn't the jist of his post

"this is a classic ha ha" is sarcastic
"this is a classic LOL :) " means you like it

;) use the correct terminology with smiley and your meaning will be clear

:)


poodle was that truck incident before or after the tuna can full of crap comment???

[DC18]

The scoop on my 1971 18' came from the factory facing aft. The biggest drawback is if you stop too quickly or a large wave hits from the stern. I have had at least 10 times over the years back in the 70s where the water flooded the engine to the point of my having to pull the spark plugs to get the water out of the cylinders. I do agree that if the scoop is large like this one, it should be facing backwards for appearance but forward if it is a smaller scoop like the Shelby. If you are careful with an aft facing scoop, I think they can be beneficial. In my case, a scoop was mandatory to accomodate the high rise LT1 intake and carburetor. The original flame arrestor came a little over the top of the engine cover through the hole. Bill
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj316/Conquistador_del_mar/Enginecover-painted.jpg

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj316/Conquistador_del_mar/Comingtogether.jpg
Sorry to hear of the water problrm :frown:....................BUTT, that IS ONE BEAUTIFUL DONZI :yes::):fam:

[catch 22]

Here are a few pics of the scoop I put on my 22.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Sorry to hear of the water problrm :frown:....................BUTT, that IS ONE BEAUTIFUL DONZI :yes::):fam:

Thanks much. I always thought it was, too. The restoration is almost done. Bill

[HOWARD O]

Here are a few pics of the scoop I put on my 22.
Great looking boat, Catch22. I have to assume these 2 photos were at the same event, but I gotta ask....what's with the hats?

Sorry to hijack.... :hijack:


http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=40165&d=1225929364
http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=43450&d=1234971819

[DC18]

Thanks much. I always thought it was, too. The restoration is almost done. Bill


Here are a few pics of the scoop I put on my 22.

Would love to see both of the DONZI's. SWEET :worthy:

[catch 22]

Howard O, Those were given to us at the Sarasota Hometown Rally a couple of years ago.

[CHACHI]

Howard, they are do-rags, not hats.

Didn't you say you were a biker at one time. You should of known.:wink:

Ken

[BigGrizzly]

Just so you guys know the pictures of Catch's boat don't do it justice it is better in real life.:yes::yes::yes:

[mphatc]

You guys are having all too much fun with each other . . . so I'll be a party pooper . .
Back to MOP's original question, how to cool the engine compartment . .
I ask, Is it really to hot? Just because you can't touch certain items . .
The human body has it's temperature threshold around 110-120 degrees depending on how thick your skin is, and how often you handle hot items.
Marine automatic fire systems self discharge at 175 Degrees
http://marinefire.com/Engine_Room_Systems.html
So if we have a 383 Cu In V8 as Phil has running high temps . . and he ussually putts along :wink: how hot is it really???
on another note, I just installed two new blower motors in my Magnum 27 directly to the two rear exit vents, which are like a Donzi 22 vent, right below the deck.
These move ~~ 170 CFM . . at $24.00 each from Overton's , why not run them constantly? 20400 CU FT / HR . . .
Or Phil, since Bonnie likes the noise of your engine, just run w/o the hatch . . heck you're never out in big seas . . . :nilly::):eek:

Mario L.

1969 Donzi Corsican comes with a 6 pack and a cooler of it's own and used to belong to Bill S.
1968 Magnum 27

[MOP]

Bonnie likes the noise of your engine, just run w/o the hatch . . heck you're never out in big seas . . . :nilly::):eek: It was your better half that did not like the ocean, Bonnie & I like the roller coaster ride. Ask Chachi about how wet a 22 can be!!!

Now on the temp thing, good thing I don't have an automatic extinguisher. I am running a 180 Tstat the gauge shows a needle above that, open my hatch even after a cruising run the blast hits you. The engine holds temp for a long time, Tony let my push a rope for a good half hour or more up at 1K the box was still hot as heck. The engine gets all the hot air it can swallow but would be happier with a cool breeze.

WAS Mario L. NOW M.O.P.

1969 Donzi Corsican comes with a 6 pack and a cooler of it's own SANS Machine Guns and used to belong to Bill S.
1968 Magnum 27[/quote]

[MOP]

Daamn just looked at the date of Randy's post prior to yours are you being an instigator? :shocking::toiletpap