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gcarter
02-14-2009, 05:05 PM
My '02 Expedition w/123K miles is developing an issue. It is suffering from the blahs.
Seriously, it seems to be down on power much of the time. I can add a can of injector cleaner and it does much better, the effect lasts a little longer than the tank of gas.
Otherwise, if you put your foot in it, it seems dis interested in doing what's asked of it. I've had the fuel filter changed, and a new set of plugs. It runs smoothly, no misses,and the mileage is down about 10%.
Any ideas?

Cuda
02-14-2009, 05:35 PM
I don't remember if my 4.6 had a catalytic converter, if so, it might be plugged somewhat.

zelatore
02-14-2009, 06:08 PM
I'm sure every 4.6 had a cat - at least when new. And a plugged cat would lead to what George is describing except I don't know how the injector cleaner would change it's behavior. :confused:

Cuda
02-14-2009, 06:25 PM
I'm sure every 4.6 had a cat - at least when new. And a plugged cat would lead to what George is describing except I don't know how the injector cleaner would change it's behavior. :confused:
I imagine that running injection cleaner through it woulod make it burn somewhat cleaner, and therefore run better teporarily. That's my opinion, and it's worth every penny spent on my opinion.
I'd bow to Builzilla's knowledge in this area, because that IS his area of expertise.

gcarter
02-14-2009, 06:34 PM
Duh!
I flat forgot about cats!!
Thanks guys!

BUIZILLA
02-14-2009, 08:37 PM
good 'ol alky fuel... :nilly: :bonk: :boggled:

gcarter
02-14-2009, 09:08 PM
good 'ol alky fuel... :nilly: :bonk: :boggled:
So try another station Jim?

BlownCrewCab
02-14-2009, 09:24 PM
I'd guess it's an O2 sensor going bad, if it was an injector you'd feel it like a miss, if it's the O2 sensor sending a bad signal then all the injectors are firing the same, just not accurate, which explains the fuel milage hit.

gcarter
02-14-2009, 09:42 PM
I'd guess it's an O2 sensor going bad, if it was an injector you'd feel it like a miss, if it's the O2 sensor sending a bad signal then all the injectors are firing the same, just not accurate, which explains the fuel milage hit.

Wouldn't I be getting a "Check Engine" light?

BUIZILLA
02-14-2009, 09:44 PM
water doesn't combust.. :boggled:

zelatore
02-14-2009, 11:49 PM
Wouldn't he feel it if there was water in the fuel? I've never dealt with it on a car, but I know what it does on a boat and usually you can feel/hear the rough running.

Not saying this isn't it, just asking.

Cuda
02-15-2009, 04:00 AM
good 'ol alky fuel... :nilly: :bonk: :boggled:
I was thinking the same thing,

Cuda
02-15-2009, 04:02 AM
Wouldn't he feel it if there was water in the fuel? I've never dealt with it on a car, but I know what it does on a boat and usually you can feel/hear the rough running.
Not saying this isn't it, just asking.
A two stroke engine will digest a certain amount of water, four stroke engines won't tolerate much at all.

Brian41
02-15-2009, 08:00 AM
Check fuel pressure and clean air flow sensor.

gcarter
02-15-2009, 08:54 AM
Check fuel pressure and clean air flow sensor.

I took it to my regular shop the other day where they changed the oil and filter. As to the problem, they checked the fuel pressure, and changed the fuel filter. I'm not sure about the sensor.

motorcity
02-15-2009, 02:02 PM
If the O2 sensor was bad, it would pobably throw a code. But they do get lazy, and respond slowly. With the kind of miles you have on you truck, its a possiblility, they are lazy. You can usually tell when the converters are going bad the exhaust will have an unusual smell. You could go to the forum below and ask the question. Its a really go site, with alot of knowledgeable people. Have you replced the spark plugs?

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/index.php

MOP
02-15-2009, 04:55 PM
George like me and everyone else we all put on bottle of cleaner in, recently my older Sub which was not being used much was running on the poor side. Hard to start and just generally logy, I called my local shop I know the guy pretty well. He said put 3 bottles in what ever was left in the tank and get back after I ran it a bit, no joke it took three trips to work an work it did like magic. We had single digit weather back a couple of weeks ago and it fired off like new. It has been fine since I will never forget that trick and he was happy with a six of Hienies!!!

Phil

Ed Donnelly
02-15-2009, 06:15 PM
Phil; You put 3 bottles of WHAT??? Am I missing something here???

Sorry for the hijack:frown:.........Ed

Cuda
02-15-2009, 07:22 PM
Phil; You put 3 bottles of WHAT??? Am I missing something here???
Sorry for the hijack:frown:.........Ed
Three bottles of Jim Beam taken internally will fix most anything, or you won't care if it does or not. :)

MOP
02-15-2009, 07:50 PM
Shows to go you just how well you read Georges posts, about like I do most of the time:
My '02 Expedition w/123K miles is developing an issue. It is suffering from the blahs.
Seriously, it seems to be down on power much of the time. I can add a can of injector cleaner and it does much better, the effect lasts a little longer than the tank of gas.
Otherwise, if you put your foot in it, it seems dis interested in doing what's asked of it. I've had the fuel filter changed, and a new set of plugs. It runs smoothly, no misses,and the mileage is down about 10%.
Any ideas?


George like me and everyone else we all put on bottle of cleaner in, recently my older Sub which was not being used much was running on the poor side. Hard to start and just generally logy, I called my local shop I know the guy pretty well. He said put 3 bottles in what ever was left in the tank and get back after I ran it a bit, no joke it took three trips to work an work it did like magic. We had single digit weather back a couple of weeks ago and it fired off like new. It has been fine since I will never forget that trick and he was happy with a six of Hienies!!!

Phil

Ed Donnelly
02-15-2009, 08:43 PM
Phil You old ****:wink: I read the posts twice to make up for 1 eye...

Read cleaner but no mention of INJECTOR ..

Boy I hope when I get as OLD as you, I am smarter:yes:..........Ed

MOP
02-15-2009, 09:39 PM
George and I use telepathy at times!

Ed Donnelly
02-15-2009, 10:25 PM
Yeah; thats what I thought:nilly:

Its an American thing EH?? ........Ed

VetteLT193
02-16-2009, 08:32 AM
I took it to my regular shop the other day where they changed the oil and filter. As to the problem, they checked the fuel pressure, and changed the fuel filter. I'm not sure about the sensor.

Did that fix the problem?

The throttle body get loaded as heck on that engine. it could be the issue too. I pulled the one off my old town car at 130k-ish and it was really loaded with carbon. The EGR passages were totally blocked and the whole thing was just nasty. I cleaned it, (even though the label says not to), and it was a whole new car when I got it back together.

MOP
02-16-2009, 08:39 AM
Yeah; thats what I thought:nilly:

Its an American thing EH?? ........Ed

EH! Ya Got It Right!!!!!

mrfixxall
02-17-2009, 09:34 AM
My '02 Expedition w/123K miles is developing an issue. It is suffering from the blahs.
Seriously, it seems to be down on power much of the time. I can add a can of injector cleaner and it does much better, the effect lasts a little longer than the tank of gas.
Otherwise, if you put your foot in it, it seems dis interested in doing what's asked of it. I've had the fuel filter changed, and a new set of plugs. It runs smoothly, no misses,and the mileage is down about 10%.
Any ideas?

if the cat's were bad the o2 sensors would sence they were bad and set a code,,try better gas, the gas now adays just suck!! Take a fuel pressure reading,should be 35-38 psi at idle and 40 with just the key on..your injextor screens may be getting plugged which wont allow enough fuel to the engine.


your engine is known for its bad coil packs and broken valve springs which will also make your engine down on performance..

Also look into your mass airflow sensor, if thiers a little piece of dirt on one of the little sensors inside of it it will throw your whole fi system off..get some mass air flow sensor cleaner and clean it,then dry it wir a little compressed air..

Brian41
02-17-2009, 04:52 PM
if the cat's were bad the o2 sensors would sence they were bad and set a code,,try better gas, the gas now adays just suck!! Take a fuel pressure reading,should be 35-38 psi at idle and 40 with just the key on..your injextor screens may be getting plugged which wont allow enough fuel to the engine.


your engine is known for its bad coil packs and broken valve springs which will also make your engine down on performance..

Also look into your mass airflow sensor, if thiers a little piece of dirt on one of the little sensors inside of it it will throw your whole fi system off..get some mass air flow sensor cleaner and clean it,then dry it wir a little compressed air..


This is the long version of post #14 but I have never heard of the valve spring or coil pack issues. I have 2 4.6 fords with over 150,000 miles and several customers with over 300,000 with no valve spring issues. I fix a lot of these cars with high mileage by cleaning the MAF sensor.

gcarter
02-17-2009, 07:01 PM
This is the long version of post #14 but I have never heard of the valve spring or coil pack issues. I have 2 4.6 fords with over 150,000 miles and several customers with over 300,000 with no valve spring issues. I fix a lot of these cars with high mileage by cleaning the MAF sensor.
I will check the sensor for sure.
I've also heard some Mod Motors have coil issues. I've replaced one coil on this engine. I'm glad it was only one....$80.00 X 8 will empty your pockets quickly.

VetteLT193
02-17-2009, 07:54 PM
I will check the sensor for sure.
I've also heard some Mod Motors have coil issues. I've replaced one coil on this engine. I'm glad it was only one....$80.00 X 8 will empty your pockets quickly.

That's for sure.

or you can do what I did and buy a new (used) one so you have time to work on the boat. It was your advice that got me into an SUV after all :wink:

gcarter
02-17-2009, 09:30 PM
That's for sure.

or you can do what I did and buy a new (used) one so you have time to work on the boat. It was your advice that got me into an SUV after all :wink:

Large SUV's are irreplaceable, IMO.

zelatore
02-17-2009, 11:21 PM
Large SUV's are irreplaceable, IMO.
Oh, I think I could find a counter-opinion regarding 'sport' and 'utility'...

mrfixxall
02-18-2009, 09:46 AM
This is the long version of post #14 but I have never heard of the valve spring or coil pack issues. I have 2 4.6 fords with over 150,000 miles and several customers with over 300,000 with no valve spring issues. I fix a lot of these cars with high mileage by cleaning the MAF sensor.

Well i fixed 2 this year already,broken intake valve spring..

gcarter
02-18-2009, 10:01 AM
Oh, I think I could find a counter-opinion regarding 'sport' and 'utility'...

To me the "sport" is inconsequential, but I love the utility.

I can't imagine anyone taking seven people to dinner in a pickup.........unless they were the illegal aliens you have working in the yard. :wink:

zelatore
02-18-2009, 10:27 AM
To me the "sport" is inconsequential, but I love the utility.

I can't imagine anyone taking seven people to dinner in a pickup.........unless they were the illegal aliens you have working in the yard. :wink:

Well heck, it's not like I'm going to put them up front with me....

OK, you got me on the carrying a bunch of people thing. Of course, I don't know the last time I needed to carry more than 4 people in one of my own vehicles. Maybe I just need more friends.

mrfixxall
02-18-2009, 01:41 PM
This is the long version of post #14 but I have never heard of the valve spring or coil pack issues. I have 2 4.6 fords with over 150,000 miles and several customers with over 300,000 with no valve spring issues. I fix a lot of these cars with high mileage by cleaning the MAF sensor.


first pic is how it was bebween the spring seat and the retainer..
the second pic is how it came off..

Cuda
02-18-2009, 04:29 PM
Well i fixed 2 this year already,broken intake valve spring..
I've never seen a broke valve spring unless it's sat at a high pressure.

Just my observation, your milege my vay.

gcarter
06-06-2009, 06:05 PM
Well, it took awhile, but I think it's fixed.
I guess I found out the hard way that there're spark plug problems on the 2 valve engines also.
It seems what they do is loosen up and actually rattle, or sound like a sticky lifter or something.
Anyway, last week # 3 blew out. It was being held in by the coil. There's also a "fix" for it, a kit that allows a steel insert to be threaded in and locked into place after using a special set of tools to ream some metal out of the plug well, then threaded, and the steel insert is threaded in and another tool is used to roll the insert threads in to lock it in along with some red thread locker.
This morning I checked the rest of the plugs since I could still hear some tapping. Number 4 (the rear on the passenger side was completely loose and I could unscrew the plug with my fingers. I guess I saved a bunch of money today.
On the way home, it seemed to run better with at least most of the power is back.

Cuda
06-06-2009, 06:20 PM
They don't have a helicoil that fits?

gcarter
06-06-2009, 06:26 PM
They do Joe, but it's not as good or as strong of a fix. And what if you can't break off the tang, or it falls into the cylinder?

Cuda
06-06-2009, 06:40 PM
They do Joe, but it's not as good or as strong of a fix. And what if you can't break off the tang, or it falls into the cylinder?
I've driven the ouit using a brass drift, then get ahold of it with needle nose pliers. I never had anything fall into the cylinder, but if I did, I'd get it out with a magnet if it was magnetic.

A helicoild actually is probably stronger than whatever fix they came up with. The more you screw a helicoil in, the stronger it gets, and trust me, there is no danger of breaking a helicoil. They are made of tough stuff!:eek:

gcarter
06-06-2009, 07:20 PM
Here's a link to the insert and tools.
It really is impressive.

http://www.timesert.com/html/triton_repair2.html

zelatore
06-06-2009, 07:53 PM
Looks nice and easy doing it on the bench like in the instructions.

I suspect it might be a tad more difficult actually in the vehicle. :frown: