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jimishooch
02-05-2009, 12:59 PM
http://austin.craigslist.org/boa/1021502074.html

took a look at this sweet 16 this morning, in pretty good shape. the drive is a cobra.
anything i should look out for with this power package and drive?

thx
jim

Just Say N20
02-05-2009, 02:28 PM
I'm surprised someone hasn't chimed in, as there has been much discussion on the board of a supercharged V6 vs a V8, especially when installed in a 16.

If the sound of the V6 didn't bother you, I would think this would be a great package. I'm surprised to see a 16 on a tandem axle trailer though, not needed, and much harder to man-handle around the garage.

jimishooch
02-05-2009, 02:42 PM
believe it or not the boat has thru prop exhaust. a real sleeper to say the least.
yes, tandem trailer is overkill and it needs work. the bowstop is so bent it cannot receive the bow, has 3 flat tires and 2 bunks not bolted down. who knows about the wheel bearings.
the owner will have to make the trailer roadworthy and safe.
there is more wrong with the trailer than the boat.

how's does the pricing look?

thx
jim

VetteLT193
02-05-2009, 02:54 PM
Price seems really fair to me but the pictures stink. If it needs a ton of work you are better off buying one that doesn't need the work. But, if the interior is nice and it's pretty much ready to run it seems fine.

Trailers are not cheap but add jack diddly to the value on resale. If it needs a new trailer price that out before buying.

jimishooch
02-05-2009, 03:12 PM
Price seems really fair to me but the pictures stink. If it needs a ton of work you are better off buying one that doesn't need the work. But, if the interior is nice and it's pretty much ready to run it seems fine.

Trailers are not cheap but add jack diddly to the value on resale. If it needs a new trailer price that out before buying.

interior is in good condition as is the carpet. the hull and deck are in very good condition, nice and shiny gelcoat w/ a new rubrail.
the boat has been in an enclosed drystack for 12+ years and the owner would replace the shift cable if we came to an agreement.
we haven't talked trailer yet..........
the boat is in very good shape for it's years and alot depends on the sea trial.

thx
jim

smbarcelow
02-05-2009, 03:18 PM
...alot depends on the sea trial.

That will certainly be the test. I'm a tad bit skeptical about the speed claims, but the owner seems knowledgeable enough. 70 is ripping for 300 HP in that hull. Overall, looks like a good deal and the price doesn't seem bad if it's turnkey.

mike o
02-05-2009, 03:19 PM
interior is in good condition as is the carpet. the hull and deck are in very good condition, nice and shiny gelcoat w/ a new rubrail.
the boat has been in an enclosed drystack for 12+ years and the owner would replace the shift cable if we came to an agreement.
we haven't talked trailer yet..........
the boat is in very good shape for it's years and alot depends on the sea trial.

thx
jim......... Its worth $6900 up my way without the blower if shes a runner:kingme:. Why someone would show a boat on a trailer with flat tires and the bunks iffy.... makes me wonder how well he took care of the boat..... But who knows

jimishooch
02-05-2009, 03:28 PM
......... Its worth $6900 up my way without the blower if shes a runner:kingme:. Why someone would show a boat on a trailer with flat tires and the bunks iffy.... makes me wonder how well he took care of the boat..... But who knows

boat was not shown to me on the trailer. it was brought out of drystack and put on a cradle stand. the trailer has been sitting in a back lot out of sight out of mind............


thx
jim

VetteLT193
02-05-2009, 03:29 PM
I haven't seen a running Donzi classic sell for less than $5k... I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but that number tends to be the floor for a running boat that needs work.

With that said, a nice 16 will hover around 10k. Most owners just won't sell them for less than that because at under 10k I think the average guy just keeps the boat as a fun 2nd boat... or if it is the only boat and barely gets used they just keep it for a once in a while trip.

Take all that for what it's worth, especially with the economy in the toilet. search around though and I think you'll find that there aren't many Donzi's sub 10k at all. And the ones that are usually don't run, so this seems like a fair deal.

Also, what matters most is if you like the boat. My main advice is never buy a boat you don't like and never buy a boat based on speed claims:bonk:

MOP
02-05-2009, 03:32 PM
Being an old OMC tech the drive is quite a bit stronger then an Alpha, but it is not a Bravo as long as you don't hole shot it will last a good while. Two things to look for is a "red" converter to drive cable and the updated ignition pack. I will try to dig up the pack number for you tonight. These two OMC updates really added to drive longevity!

Phil

jimishooch
02-05-2009, 03:37 PM
Being an old OMC tech the drive is quite a bit stronger then an Alpha, but it is not a Bravo as long as you don't hole shot it will last a good while. Two things to look for is a "red" converter to drive cable and the updated ignition pack. I will try to dig up the pack number for you tonight. These two OMC updates really added to drive longevity!

Phil

that would be helpful. the owner did mention an update on the drive, not sure on the ignition pack.

thx
jim

HOWARD O
02-05-2009, 03:51 PM
He obviously keeps that boat dry stacked. Therefore I wouldn't equate the condition of the trailer to his upkeep on the boat. If it were me, I wouldn't go the thru-hull exhaust route on a 6-cylinder. Stealth is key, especially when you are walking the loud V-8's!

Shoot, I'd say if the drive and motor check out decent, that'd be a real good price. And a REAL kick in the pants too!!! :yes:

jimishooch
02-05-2009, 03:53 PM
He obviously keeps that boat dry stacked. Therefore I wouldn't equate the condition of the trailer to his upkeep on the boat. If it were me, I wouldn't go the thru-hull exhaust route on a 6-cylinder. Stealth is key, especially when you are walking the loud V-8's!

Shoot, I'd say if the drive and motor check out decent, that'd be a real good price. And a REAL kick in the pants too!!! :yes:

i agree!

mikev
02-05-2009, 04:02 PM
wonder what kind of blower that is and where you could find one.

jimishooch
02-05-2009, 04:29 PM
wonder what kind of blower that is and where you could find one.

owner says it's a camden blower. don't know where to purchase or if still in business.

BigGrizzly
02-05-2009, 05:50 PM
This is the first time that somebody told the truth about the speed. I beleive the boat will perform as stated- wonders of wonders

Donziweasel
02-05-2009, 06:14 PM
never buy a boat based on speed claims

Man, you ain't kidding, especailly with the stuff I have seen lately.


This is the first time that somebody told the truth about the speed. I beleive the boat will perform as stated- wonders of wonders

Once agian, I am suspect Randy. Here is how I look at it. Probably a 190 hp engine to begin with. I'll give him 300hp with the blower. It has been pretty much established that a 300 hp V-8 tend to run 60-62 in a 16. Weight difference between the two engines WITHOUT the blower is 113 pounds between it and a 350 Mag. Add the blower????? Probably less than 75 pounds difference. Give him a mph on that. 63. How is he making up the other 7 mph unless he has an SS? OMC motor....no SS.

Might say 69-70 on the speedometer, didn't say GPS'd at 70.

Still, I like the boat.

Donziweasel
02-05-2009, 06:21 PM
Also, I am running around 310-315 hp, propped out, dialed in, and getting 60. All she's got, but then again, I started at 47 mph....:)

jimishooch
02-05-2009, 06:24 PM
Man, you ain't kidding, especailly with the stuff I have seen lately.



Once agian, I am suspect Randy. Here is how I look at it. Probably a 190 hp engine to begin with. I'll give him 300hp with the blower. It has been pretty much established that a 300 hp V-8 tend to run 60-62 in a 16. Weight difference between the two engines WITHOUT the blower is 113 pounds. Add the blower????? Probably less than 75 pounds difference. Give him a mph on that. 63. How is he making up the other 7 mph unless he has an SS? OMC motor....no SS.

Might say 69-70 on the speedometer, didn't say GPS'd at 70.

Still, I like the boat.

been waiting for you to chime in DW,

the owner said he did something to the drive, possibly to the lower. don't know the prop either.
will have more on that tomorrow because all i have is a work # and he is done/gone for the day.

thx
jim

Donziweasel
02-05-2009, 06:34 PM
You know me, just trying to keep it real. An SS might make up the speed, but not sure what he would have done to a OMC drive to pick up that kinda speed.

DW,
Wary of all boats for sale on the internet speed claims.

1988 Donzi 18 Classic for sale. Stock 270 hp motor, alpha Gen 1 Drive. 100 MPH boat! 10,000.00.

mattyboy
02-05-2009, 06:35 PM
the ad says high 60's all day and would occassionaly touch 70

i would say that is a realistic statement for that boat, my 16 ran with 300 ponies at 62 mph that's an old volvo with no trim take the weight difference trim a newer designed lower more hydrodynamic and if it is a chris craft donzi it is put togther well
i would have no problem with this being a mid to high 60's boat at that price it needs to be looked at now ;)

would like to know what ratio drive???

jimishooch
02-05-2009, 06:45 PM
the ad says high 60's all day and would occassionaly touch 70

i would say that is a realistic statement for that boat, my 16 ran with 300 ponies at 62 mph that's an old volvo with no trim take the weight difference trim a newer designed lower more hydrodynamic and if it is a chris craft donzi it is put togther well
i would have no problem with this being a mid to high 60's boat at that price it needs to be looked at now ;)

would like to know what ratio drive???

i can't get anymore info on the boat tonight but will ask tomorrow.

DW, excuse my ignorance, educate me on SS and non SS?

thx
jim

mattyboy
02-05-2009, 06:48 PM
it looks like it might need some cables but otherwise it seems to be a good deal

BUIZILLA
02-05-2009, 06:57 PM
a $6500 boat that runs 65 mph on a trailer is pretty cheap thrills...

mattyboy
02-05-2009, 06:59 PM
Jim
what would the rpm ceiling be in a blown 4.3??????

Donziweasel
02-05-2009, 07:01 PM
stock 4.3L is 4800, it is definetly turning more than that with the blower.

jimishooch
02-05-2009, 07:03 PM
stock 4.3L is 4800, it is definetly turning more than that with the blower.

DW,

what is SS, non SS?????????

VetteLT193
02-05-2009, 07:06 PM
DW,

what is SS, non SS?????????

SS == short Merc Alpha.... A good drive to pick up a couple MPH if you can find one

BUIZILLA
02-05-2009, 07:10 PM
Jim
what would the rpm ceiling be in a blown 4.3?????? if he bumped up the cam a notch, i'd say 5200-5400.... very potent motor, this could be a fun boat for cheap... and VERY economical too... probably has the 1.65 Cobra SX drive which is even better...

Donziweasel
02-05-2009, 07:11 PM
Short performance Alpha Mercruiser made. Heard of boats picking up 7 -10 mph with and SS over a regular Alpha drive.

mattyboy
02-05-2009, 07:19 PM
this is what the cobra sx SS drive looks like this 16 probably doesn't have a set up like this it is a stern drive lower i think that is the name of the company that makes them



http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=42237&d=1232370776

here is bill nagy's ford v8 king powered scream machine this is a low to mid 70's boat

Donziweasel
02-05-2009, 07:23 PM
Very Nice!:)

mattyboy
02-05-2009, 07:29 PM
Thanks Jim

so 70 mph that would be 5300 rpm turning a 25 pitch prop with a 1.65 drive at 7.8% slip is that feasible cause it could be possible????

BUIZILLA
02-05-2009, 07:31 PM
very possible...

SX drives LOVE Solas props...

jimishooch
02-05-2009, 07:32 PM
drive doesn't look like that. thanks for explanation on the SS guys.

jim

mattyboy
02-05-2009, 07:36 PM
jimishooch,

it should look something like the red drive

jimishooch
02-05-2009, 07:45 PM
jimishooch,

it should look something like the red drive

it does look similar to the red drive............

Donziweasel
02-05-2009, 07:56 PM
Put the lower on the Sutphen in Matty's pic on it........:)

Pretty potent combo........70 mph here we come.....

Jraysray
02-05-2009, 08:01 PM
i can't get anymore info on the boat tonight but will ask tomorrow.

DW, excuse my ignorance, educate me on SS and non SS?

thx
jim

Jim,
I hate to ask but I purchased my 1990 18c on Lake Travis. It had a Supercharged BBC before I had it. I have been trying to find someone up there that might have seen it run. Sounds like your future boat might have possibly run with mine.

Would you mind asking the current owner if he had ran with a yellow 18 in the early 90's? THanks in advance and I hope you pull in this boat. Just need an excuse to come to Austin!! ;)

JimG
02-06-2009, 07:21 AM
Jimishooch, that boat looks great! Does it really matter what the top end number is? It's going to be tons of fun on your home lake, in any case. Travis is the perfect lake for a Donzi! Thats a good price for a running classic...

Get it! The saltwater Donzi crew will all come up one day and burn some gas with you!

JimG

jimishooch
02-06-2009, 08:11 AM
Jim,
I hate to ask but I purchased my 1990 18c on Lake Travis. It had a Supercharged BBC before I had it. I have been trying to find someone up there that might have seen it run. Sounds like your future boat might have possibly run with mine.

Would you mind asking the current owner if he had ran with a yellow 18 in the early 90's? THanks in advance and I hope you pull in this boat. Just need an excuse to come to Austin!! ;)

no problem he is a fellow donzite. back in the day he had seen my minx in it's original 25th anniv. gray. said he recently saw me in a red & white minx and wanted to know if it was the same boat...........it's a small world when it comes to some of these donzis.
deposit goes down this morning, lake trial won't be until next week as he some work to do before the splash.
thx
jim

BigGrizzly
02-06-2009, 08:24 AM
Matty the company was stern power. Actually a good unit. 1 1/4 inch vertical shaft very strong. As for the speed og the Donzi The add said 60s and touch 70 on occasion. I have had some increadable speeds out of my 16, 18, and the Criterion. The problem is I usually can not always duplicate it. As you know I usually under state my top speed for various reasons. ex ample my Corsican only runs 63 t0 65. I can do it every day any day. Have I ever seen 70 on the GPS, yes can I always do it NO. I have a minimum of 375 ponies in it. Everybody look at that engine it is a high torque roots blower, it probably has more torque than most 350 mags.

mattyboy
02-06-2009, 08:32 AM
I knew it was stern something, saw one on a 20 cig at their run a few years back with a "stock" zul motor it was fast

true grizz sometimes not all the time but it is repeatable not a one hit wonder so to speak :)

I also was in a 26zx 502 mag that gps'd a steady 80 mph for a good stretch on the st lawrence one way down wind down stream ;)

then there was that time that my 16 hit 95 mph yes it was on the trailer on it's way to lake george as it passed me, of course it was attached to Pearson truck at the time :tongue:


Jimishooch
good luck looks like a decent ride that will be very fun, have you ever driven a 16???

jimishooch
02-06-2009, 09:05 AM
Jimishooch
good luck looks like a decent ride that will be very fun, have you ever driven a 16???[/quote]

this will be my first turn in a 16. i've owned a 22c and have the minx but this is an entirely
different animal.
the boat looks fun to drive even sitting on the stand!

thx
jim

mattyboy
02-06-2009, 09:13 AM
the ride will be a little harsher than the minx or 22 but you will feel the sensation of speed much more in a 16 50 in a 16 will feel like 70 in a 22 due to the lack of a windshield and the proximity to the water . the nimbleness will be greater too. you'll have a blast

mikev
02-06-2009, 03:12 PM
Ok guys I found 4.3 v6 blowers the first three in the list are for that application not sure what the difference between the 1v,2v and 3v is maybe someone else can enlighten us.

BDS blower kits (http://www.blowerdriveservice.com/categorynarrow.php?category_id=6175&company_id=101011)

Donziweasel
02-06-2009, 03:27 PM
Perhaps ribs in the belt????? Dunno.

jimishooch
02-06-2009, 05:24 PM
ok, here we go,

4.3L HO w/ roller cam = 205hp
w/ blower running 9.5 lbs of boost
somebody please calculate for total hp rating

standard OMC V6 right rotating drive w/ 24* slightly cupped raker prop. somebody should be able to come up w/ the drive ratio.

do the owner's MPH numbers make more sense now?

thx
jim

mattyboy
02-06-2009, 05:35 PM
Thanks Jim
so 70 mph that would be 5300 rpm turning a 25 pitch prop with a 1.65 drive at 7.8% slip is that feasible cause it could be possible????



slightly cupped 24 pitch is really a 25 pitch so these are the numbers

BUIZILLA
02-06-2009, 06:55 PM
4.3 w/ blower running 9.5 lbs of boost u sure about that? that's pretty froggy stuff right there.... I hope the compression isn't over 7.5-1

jimishooch
02-06-2009, 07:47 PM
u sure about that? that's pretty froggy stuff right there.... I hope the compression isn't over 7.5-1

those are the numbers he gave me, he owns his own marine repair facility on the lake and has been doing this a long time.
don't know about the compression #'s but can ask.
as per ad he did put in low compression blower pistons if that makes a difference.

thx
jim

VetteLT193
02-06-2009, 08:44 PM
9.5 pounds of boost is big boost for a boat. cars can handle more boost and still last because they don't run so may RPM's cruising.

jimishooch
02-07-2009, 08:19 AM
yeah, didn't like the number when he said it, what's a good number now that we know what we know?

thx
jim

BigGrizzly
02-07-2009, 09:41 AM
Jim the numbers you are asking for like HP and boost are not possible. I don't cars what a desk top duno will tell you. I am going to tell you what really happens. First the boost does sound high but that can be caused by a small cam. I won't get into why here because I will not type that much, besides someone will hijack it about what they read etc. This is a roots blower so the equation is different then a centrifugal blower. As for compression it is all the combination. Example I run 4.7 psi of boost with 9.5 compression ratio, on my 502 with a procharger, on pump 93 octane fuel. I have a carb in a box and my boost id in the box not the intake like a roots blower is suppose to be in the intake. I know this because I built it. Most people either guess or are told what it is suppose to be. They don't really know. We have put together some reliable big boost marine engines, it is not easy. For the normal speed shop that would be a death role, which is what BUIZ is referring to. What is important is how long it has lived and what the real top speed and cruise is. You have heard it before I have 400+ HP and the boat goes 65. Also I have a 300 HP and I go 65. Like the 80 mph bass boats that my 65 ish Corsican can beat. The real point is does it look good, nice trailer, Donzi, test ride, and is it worth the $$$ to you. Your at the bottom of the 9th, bases loaded, 2 outs and a 3/2 count, its your call

jimishooch
02-07-2009, 10:22 AM
thanks BG,

oh, i swung for the fences and put down the deposit yesterday. boat went on the hose and the engine sounded great. he still has some work to do before the lake trial.
reliability is my main concern, i don't own a machine shop like this guy does with everything at my fingertips and this is my first foray into blowers. got to start somewhere.
i won't be bangin' this boat (or any machine for that matter) at WOT it's just not what i do. i like to get on it just the same as the next guy but the redline is very dangerous place to be.........

thx
jim

good thread guys

BigGrizzly
02-07-2009, 10:56 AM
Welcome to the new boat thing. Some time If you don't take the chance you lose the whole game. Now that you did the deal. I will say I am glad you did.

JimG
02-07-2009, 11:01 AM
Congrats!

jimishooch
02-07-2009, 11:06 AM
Jim,
I hate to ask but I purchased my 1990 18c on Lake Travis. It had a Supercharged BBC before I had it. I have been trying to find someone up there that might have seen it run. Sounds like your future boat might have possibly run with mine.

Would you mind asking the current owner if he had ran with a yellow 18 in the early 90's? THanks in advance and I hope you pull in this boat. Just need an excuse to come to Austin!! ;)

scott, did talk to the owner about your 18 but he doesn't recall.
he said he did run w/ a blown BBC red 22c that had trouble keeping up, his words not mine.

Jraysray
02-07-2009, 11:43 AM
scott, did talk to the owner about your 18 but he doesn't recall.
he said he did run w/ a blown BBC red 22c that had trouble keeping up, his words not mine.

Thanks Jim, I wouldn't expect him to have said anything else! :yes:

So couple of months down the road and it looks like the saltwater crew is heading north. Looks like we need to break out the planner.

jimishooch
02-07-2009, 02:01 PM
Thanks Jim, I wouldn't expect him to have said anything else! :yes:

So couple of months down the road and it looks like the saltwater crew is heading north. Looks like we need to break out the planner.

open year round..............now if we could just get some rain!