Gauges and Idiot Lights

[Planetwarmer]

I replaced the factory 1987 square VDOs with some Gaffrig 2s. After I did that, my low fuel and low oil pressure lights seem to come on very early. I can have over 1/2 a tank and the fuel light comes on, and the low oil pressure light comes on when I am at idle or sometimes slightly above idle.

Any ideas on what could be causing this problem? It began the instant I installed the new gauges.

By the way
The stock gauges are much higher quality, however they just look dated and I got a good deal on these.

[mattyboy]

did you change the senders???

[Planetwarmer]

should I? If so, where is a good place to get them? The gauges read correctly, the lights are the only thing acting up.

[mattyboy]

sometimes the operating range is just slightly different when i went from old teleflex to new teleflex gauges i needed to replace some of my senders as they were working but the readings were off just a tad especially the oil pressure

old sender old gauge oil pressure around 40 at wot throttle and around 15 at idle

old sender new gauge 60 at wot throttle and 30 and 30 at idle

new sender new gauge back to 40 at wot and 15 at idle confirm by my mechanic

maybe worth a shot and get the recomended gaffrig oil pressure sender and see if that clears up the oil alarm issue

[Planetwarmer]

On the senders, does anyone know what size I need for the oil preasure, water temp, and fuel level? There are 2 types of fuel level sending units, a float type and some other type that has a straight rod. I really cant tell by the pics. Is there one that is better than the other, or do i need a specific one for my boat?

I have an 87 22C with a 454 330 hp all stock.

[VetteLT193]

On the senders, does anyone know what size I need for the oil preasure, water temp, and fuel level? There are 2 types of fuel level sending units, a float type and some other type that has a straight rod. I really cant tell by the pics. Is there one that is better than the other, or do i need a specific one for my boat?

I have an 87 22C with a 454 330 hp all stock.

From what I remember the stock stuff had the lights daisy chained into the warning lights. how did you re-wire it? Are you using the stock lights, or do you have the gauges with the light built in?

I'd think that if it was a sensor issue the new gauges would be off but the lights would still be the same. I have to take a guess that it's a wiring issue, or a compatibility issue with the gauges. this assumes you are using the old lights with the new gauges though.

[mattyboy]

gaffrigII gauges?????

from what i have seen electonic fuel gauges are looking for a 33ohm to 240ohm range you'll get less bounce with the rod type rather than the float type

important to get the right depth sender for the tank,

the senders for gaffrig oil pressure gauges look like they are an 80 psi sender and a 100 psi sender

what is the old oil pressure gauge 80 or 100 or something else

[mattyboy]

it would help if you could post a diagram of the wiring of the gauges

usually they have the illmination lights daised chained with a common lead again like Vette said weather it is a built in bulb or a snap in bulb

warning lights would have to be an individual ground ( assuming the lights are hot and just looking for a ground to complete the circuit and not grounded and looking for voltage to complete the circuit) or all the warming lights would come on at once

and it sounds like the warning lights for the oil pressure go off if the pressure picks up just a little from idle

it has to be a threshold setting or range that is different on the new gauge

[mattyboy]

here is an example from teleflex specs

a 80 psi sender

gives a reading of 240 ohm when there is 0 psi

gives a reading of 103 ohm when there is 40 psi

gives a reading of 30 ohm when there is 80 psi

a 100 psi sender

gives a reading of 240 ohm when there is 0 psi

gives a reading of 103 ohm when there is 50 psi

gives a reading of 30 ohm when there is 100 psi

so in the middle range not a big deal only a 10 point swing on the high or low end of the scale it is a 20 point swing

[Planetwarmer]

I did a direct swap. The only thing that I changed was the gauges. The oil pressure is 80 psi, but i believe they have different sizes of senders. The warning lights are still wired the same as they were from the factory.

This is the link to the pic of the gauges of the boat.
http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34163&d=1202824266

[Planetwarmer]

gaffrigII gauges?????

from what i have seen electonic fuel gauges are looking for a 33ohm to 240ohm range you'll get less bounce with the rod type rather than the float type

important to get the right depth sender for the tank,

the senders for gaffrig oil pressure gauges look like they are an 80 psi sender and a 100 psi sender

what is the old oil pressure gauge 80 or 100 or something else

Does anyone know what would be the correct length rod for a stock 1987 22C fuel tank?

[mattyboy]

is there a lead from the gauge to the warning light???? my point is there is a threshold for the warning, and what sets that the gauge??? different gauge different threshold

[Trueser]

Does anyone know what would be the correct length rod for a stock 1987 22C fuel tank?


Search old post. The orig stock factory sending unit is still available.

[VetteLT193]

is there a lead from the gauge to the warning light???? my point is there is a threshold for the warning, and what sets that the gauge??? different gauge different threshold

I'm getting at that too. My gaffrig/livorsi gauges don't have an idiot light provisional although they are not gaffrig II's, they are regular gaffrigs.

I think the VDO has an extra pin for the idiot lights, (just from straight memory and I'm not freezing my azz off to find out otherwise this evening), so I'm lost on the wiring of the new gauges. I am thinking that you have the lights wired to a signal that isn't intended for the idiot light at all so they might be just coming on at an arbitrary number all together.

Wiring diagram or just an explanation would really help. My gaffrig's have bolts where the VDO's have slide on clips for connections so they had to have been at least been slightly re-wired.

Depending on the gauge I have:
Ground
Power (gauge)
Power (light)
Signal

some of them are mechanical, so no signal or gauge power wire. some have a pair of grounds. volts obviously has the signal and power hard wired together.

[Trueser]

I converted my 1987 22c Over to Livorsi without any issues.

[KerrLake]

Does anyone know what would be the correct length rod for a stock 1987 22C fuel tank?
If you use the fuel sender without the float, don't you cut the rod and then calibrate to the correct depth?

[mattyboy]

If you use the fuel sender without the float, don't you cut the rod and then calibrate to the correct depth?



not sure the website had different lengths for both types

[mattyboy]

my teleflex had
the following leads


I= ignition or power from the ign switch
G= ground
S= sender to the sender
L= lamp power from the light switch to light up the gauge at night not a warning light


do you have a pic of the new gauge???


i thought gaffrig was different from gaffrig by livorsi I have not heard good things about the gaffrig II's

[mattyboy]

to answer the rod pick up, yes they can be trimmed/cut to the next smaller size and will work on tanks from 4 inches deep to 120 inches and they can be ordered in 12 inch incriments so a 24 inch rod can be trimmed down to 12 inch an no more or the variable resistors would not have the range to calibrate the sender

[Planetwarmer]

I'm getting at that too. My gaffrig/livorsi gauges don't have an idiot light provisional although they are not gaffrig II's, they are regular gaffrigs.

I think the VDO has an extra pin for the idiot lights, (just from straight memory and I'm not freezing my azz off to find out otherwise this evening), so I'm lost on the wiring of the new gauges. I am thinking that you have the lights wired to a signal that isn't intended for the idiot light at all so they might be just coming on at an arbitrary number all together.

Wiring diagram or just an explanation would really help. My gaffrig's have bolts where the VDO's have slide on clips for connections so they had to have been at least been slightly re-wired.

Depending on the gauge I have:
Ground
Power (gauge)
Power (light)
Signal

some of them are mechanical, so no signal or gauge power wire. some have a pair of grounds. volts obviously has the signal and power hard wired together.

The only altering that I did was when I took the VDOs out, I cut the spade connectors off and spliced the ring type connectors on the original wire. I then hooked the wires up in the same manor as they were on the stock VDOs. There was no extra pin for the lights. I never changed any wiring, just took off the wires and put them in the same spot on the new gauges.

[mattyboy]

it is the sender, to confirm put the old oil gauge back in and see if the low oil pressure warning light stops acting up


how many wires go onto the gauge???


i have looked but cannot find the specs on the operating ohm range for the gaffrigs

[Planetwarmer]

Does anyone know what would be the proper length rod for a 22C?

[mattyboy]

i wouldn't worry about the fuel sender they are pretty standard when i say it is the sender i mean the oil sender is not the compatible one with the new oil gauge something is not right with the new gauges the easy way without spending more money would be to put back the old gauges and see if the warnings go away

[Planetwarmer]

Very true. I will have to wait until it warms up a bit. It is pretty cold in Oklahoma this time of year.

One thing that I did remember was when the oil warning light came on at idle, if I flipped a switch on and off 1 time (like the nav lights for example) the warning light went off. ? .

Like I said, I wired it exactly as it was from the factory. And the trouble started as soon as I swapped the gauges.

I am going to redo my dash, maybe I will opt for the idiot light delete option.

[mattyboy]

that sounds like a plan ,

one thing i thought of depending on the gauges and what they are made of you might have a bad ground or a lead not making a good contact or an intermittent short

the teleflex gauges i used were plastic and the ground lead was internally wired to were it needed to go when we did the cig project we used stewart warner gauges and they were metal housing and the ground was the gauge it self so the lights for the gauges just had one wire which was hot and the bulb had a metal collar and when snapped into the gauge it had it's ground. they were easy to wire but if you had another lead either from the sender or the hot lead with a little copper exposed and it touched the metal gauge body you would have problems
which we did a few times

just a thought maybe something like that is the problem??



does spring come any earlier in oklahoma????


it's real cold in the NE today

[KerrLake]

Does anyone know what would be the proper length rod for a 22C?

My Z25 tank is 11" deep. It's apples and oranges, but I wouldn't think it would be very deep. The rod style eliminates the gauge bouncing around from the gas moving in the tank.

[Planetwarmer]

No, the stupid ground hog saw his shadow! I guess we are in for an extended winter.

It usually is Ok to dewinterize in mid to late late April. The water is no fun to get into until mid early to mid June. However, I have gone skiing in late October in the past with no wet suit.


I would love to try the rod-style fuel sending unit, currently my gauge is virtually worthless while under way.