Konrad or TRS

[erikshube]

Im faced with rebuilding my 330 TRS or replace with a new Conrad. Whats everyones thoughts?

[Lenny]

If you have the money, go KONRAD. I would think tho, that through BAM and others, and the few here that have 'em with BIG horespower, (550-650) that a rebuild would be more than enough.

In the parts for sale there is a motor and drive. The TRS needs rebuilding and comes with a trans for $1200. Might be worth a look.

The engine is a 1993 GEN V 4 bolt block from a truck 468 cu in. CROWER crank/rods/ss roller rockers, 9.7-1 forged pistons, 8 qt oil pan, 232@.050,.599lift rollercam/lifters, A set of port/pol world heads w/airgap intake ,demon carb,k&n marine air filt, remote oil filt, Revolution marine polished exh manifolds and risers for 4" exh. It comes with the fact dist/msd coil and alternator. 6000 rpm dampner ,less than 50 hrs runs great 73.5 mph gps in a 79 hornett II $5500 obo
Also have a good LH trs drive w/ 24 p3 blade cleaver prop which comes with a free trans that needs to be rebuilt. $1200 obo
Any questions call my cell 484 459 3812===Kurt
The boat was sold less drive line to a resto company in fla which is why I have this for sale.

[erikshube]

Im looking at about 1200 to rebuild mine, possibly more, due to a bent prop shaft and broken skeg. I've been told that it would almost be a down grade to go with something else.

[erikshube]

I knew something didnt look right when i spelt Konrad

[handfulz28]

I've been told that it would almost be a down grade to go with something else.

That's a sales/service pitch. I'd expect the Konrad to be a serious upgrade, but perhaps a difficult value proposition for your setup.

[erikshube]

Okay so i just saw the price of a Konrad. Boating is d@#$ expensive. Think I'm gonna go the rebuild route. But i would still like to hear everyones opinion.

[MR MAGOO]

The Konrad is a serious upgrade but it would be the last drive you would ever buy for the boat. The Konrad unit can handle up to 800 hp with ease and is almost 2" shorter than the TRS. This increase in propshaft height, typically results in top speed increased from 3-5 mph.

Give me a call sometime as we ocassionally have some great deals on reconditioned product where you can save big $$$. (I'm the factory rep for Konrad Hi Performance)

Kurt 715-410-0735

[gcarter]

I can't imagine bying a drive worth as much or more than the boat! :nilly:

But that's just me.

[BigGrizzly]

Konrad is only good to 800 horse, better then standard TRS. I have a TRS and Beefed up merktrans and I have 690+ horse power on a good day. Biggest problem is the trans. However Every time the out drive goed so does the trans. So my answer is Konrad is better. What is the rebuild price it is usually 2000 from a good shop if only the gears are bad. I am contemplating the switch, But being retired and needing to sell some vintage race bike parts.

[MR MAGOO]

I can't imagine bying a drive worth as much or more than the boat! :nilly:

But that's just me.

When we have the factory recond units available, you can usually get a drive (direct bolt on to the TRS gimbal) for around $6500, $7500 including transom assembly.

[Boatless]

Save your $$ and install a Bravo. Less weight, less hp loss, more setup options, more efficent and faster.

[gcarter]

When we have the factory recond units available, you can usually get a drive for around $6500, $7500 including transom assembly.
Kurt, that would be a good value.

[HOWARD O]

Okay so i just saw the price of a Konrad. Boating is d@#$ expensive. Think I'm gonna go the rebuild route. But i would still like to hear everyones opinion.

How many times have you had to rebuild your 29 year old TRS drive? Let's go out on a limb and say $2500 to rebuild it. Good for what, another 20 something years maybe, give or take? That's a long, long time and an excellent value, unless you are going to put in a 700 hp engine.

That's also better than $5000 you'll be saving by NOT going with the Konrad drive. That could buy a lot of motor upgrades, a lot of gas, a lot of insurance and all the other "expensive" stuff that goes hand in hand with owning a boat. Cost/Benefit, at least with your boat is a no-brainer I'd say.

[HOWARD O]

Kurt, that would be a good value.

How would that be a good value? What do you suppose that Hornet is worth? Just my opinion, but I just can't see how anybody could justify buying a drive, and a REBUILT drive at that, that is worth at least half, if not more, of the boat's total value? Especially when they could be "good to go" for another 20+ years for a 2 grand rebuild?

I could see if he were rebuilding and turning his Hornet into a superboat of sorts with BIG power and all the goodies that go with that undertaking. Then you have a case for going for that Konrad. But you could do a lot to that boat with all that leftover money after rebuilding the current TRS.

[BUIZILLA]

there are some people that spend 6k for CMI tubes and only pick up 1 mph, for $6500 you can get 3-5 mph, so says the guru... if your TRS is trashed you can get a warranteed STRONG drive and also pick up some nice speed gains to boot..

[gcarter]

How would that be a good value? What do you suppose that Hornet is worth? Just my opinion, but I just can't see how anybody could justify buying a drive, and a REBUILT drive at that, that is worth at least half, if not more, of the boat's total value? Especially when they could be "good to go" for another 20+ years for a 2 grand rebuild?

I could see if he were rebuilding and turning his Hornet into a superboat of sorts with BIG power and all the goodies that go with that undertaking. Then you have a case for going for that Konrad. But you could do a lot to that boat with all that leftover money after rebuilding the current TRS.
I wasn't talking about a Hornet, Minx, 22 or anything else.
I was commenting on that amount is a good value for a Konrad w/a transom assembly.

[boxy]

Save your $$ and install a Bravo. Less weight, less hp loss, more setup options, more efficent and faster.


Will a Bravo bolt onto a TRS boat?

[HOWARD O]

I wasn't talking about a Hornet, Minx, 22 or anything else.
I was commenting on that amount is a good value for a Konrad w/a transom assembly.

Oh okay. I thought you were giving your opinion on whether to rebuild the TRS or go with a Konrad, that's what Erik was asking about, sorry.

[HOWARD O]

I guess 3 mph for around 5 grand more is a good value to some, it may be to Erik. Especially if he is going with more power.

He said the Konrad drive is good for at least 800 hp, but is it not true that it's only as strong as the transmission behind it too?

[gero1]

everything and i do mean EVERYTHING breaks, seen them all break at the races on dale hollow. seen a k break behind a sbc last year

[MR MAGOO]

everything and i do mean EVERYTHING breaks, seen them all break at the races on dale hollow. seen a k break behind a sbc last year

Please elaborate as I am not aware of this issue. This thread is about the Konrad TRS replacement (The Konrad 540 drive) I don't know of any Konrad TRS units behind a small block. Are you referring to the old Konrad Omega (Alpha replacement) drive that we sold back in the early 90's?

We have enjoyed fantastic success with the TRS conversions. Many installations well over 900 hp, no issues. My own 38 Cigarette w/blower motors has run 380 hrs, 5 seasons, zero problems.

If someone wants a direct bolt on solution to their old TRS, the Konrad unit has proven to work incredibly well.

Kurt

[erikshube]

I wasn't educated on how serious a Konrad is. I knew they were a direct replacement for a TRS and they are solid drives, but thats all. I never see my boat getting remotely close to 800 hp. If I had a 10k motor to put in front of a 10k drive, then thats a different story (and a pretty sick boat).

All great stuff to contemplate though.

I caught up with Kurt (Turbodonzi) about purchasing his TRS. The topic of how RH and LH rotation is in the TRS is accomplished. Is it the transmission responsible for left or right hand rotation? Is it the drive or a combo of both? He has a counter-rotating TRS and mine is standard. Will his drive bolt right up w/o changing anything else? Does it affect the performance of the boat? Does LH helm or RH helm have anything to do with it?

[erikshube]

FWIW, I was "" close to buying one of the reman units last year.. Their idea of reman pretty much means the case is used..

$6500 bucks does seem like a screaming deal when considering that statement.

[boxy]

No, but after your done glassing in the transom and the stringers, moving your 650hp engine back 11ish inches, and recutting the transom, it will blow up :) :) :bonk:

That's what I thought.....

This way just seemed more diplomatic than telling the poster that suggesting Erik try to pound a square peg into a round hole really wasn't helping Erik.... :D :D

[handfulz28]

Just my opinion, but I just can't see how anybody could justify buying a drive, and a REBUILT drive at that, that is worth at least half, if not more, of the boat's total value?

It's not exactly apples to apples comparison, but how does any boater justify spending umpteen thousands on outboard motors when they repower? Heck, a 40hp outboard these days is $3-4k? How much is a 1980 13' Whaler hull worth? Look at the prices of unpowered hulls....the majority of the "value" is in the drivetrain.

Who would spend $2k to rebuild a drive that is barely worth $2k?

Like I said, the value proposition can be a tough sell. But at the price for a reman, you're getting a warranty AND improved performance AND increased resale (who's going to pay you for a recently rebuilt TRS?). Not to mention the Konrads look cool. :yes:

[BigGrizzly]

The reason I am Looking at a Konrad is 1) ease of installation. It is almost a bolt on. Stronger than a TRS, absolutely. I have done my drive twice, first was 20+ years behind a weak 330 horse engine the second on my 690+ procharged 502. with a ton of very conservative hours. The trans went too both times, No answer if it was the chicken or the egg first. ONE thing is the TRS is hands down Stronger then a Bravo1 drive. As most know I am thrifty with my $$$$$, but be sure I am getting tired of the fixing trans and lowers. One small point is there is only one Imco stronger then the Konrad. Replacing the TRS with the Konrad you retain the quiet shifting which the Bravo does not have. I am Not bashing the Bravo, just giving comments about the Konrad.

[LKSD]

We have been selling & installing the Konrads for several years now. I can honestly say The Konrad is a strong well built unit. You are unlikeley to break it unless you hit something. I have also sold & installed several of these on bigger power boats, including a 33 Apache with blowers. The Konrad is heavier duty compared to the trs, it also is available in shorties, which means you can usually get some extra speed on your boat by simply doing the upgrade as well.

Kurt ( Mr Magoo) is my rep for Konrad products & also runs a set on his cig with big power and no drive failures to date since running them now for a few years if my memory is correct.. A classic or minx will never have the weight & probably wont have the same stress on it that Kurt's big cig, or some of the big stuff we have put in front of them as well puts to the drives.

Again, I would think it likely to be the last drive you'd ever buy due to a "drive" failure again & again you'd probably see a couple mph increase as well.... Not too bad IMO if you can justify the expense of the upgrade. So that being said I would say that the price is relative. For some they can justify the expense, others cant. That doesnt make it a bad drive or not worthwhile though.. ;)

If anyone is interested in these feel free to also contact me if I may be of service. I can also get you the same reman or demo units that Kurt is talking about from Konrad when they are available. :) Jamie / Lakeside

One of our Konrad installs (http://lakesiderestorations.com/index.jsp?id=123)

.

[HOWARD O]

It's not exactly apples to apples comparison, but how does any boater justify spending umpteen thousands on outboard motors when they repower? Heck, a 40hp outboard these days is $3-4k? How much is a 1980 13' Whaler hull worth? Look at the prices of unpowered hulls....the majority of the "value" is in the drivetrain.

Who would spend $2k to rebuild a drive that is barely worth $2k?

Like I said, the value proposition can be a tough sell. But at the price for a reman, you're getting a warranty AND improved performance AND increased resale (who's going to pay you for a recently rebuilt TRS?). Not to mention the Konrads look cool. :yes:

I can't argue your point about repowering, especially when you bring up the "whaler" analogy. That's a good point.

For sheer value, I still maintain rebuilt TRS would be the way to go. I am not arguing that other options aren't also good too. There's great arguments for the Konrad drive and I suppose if I were to replace my old 454 with a more modern powerplant, then I might want to go whole hog and get a Konrad too since there are other obvious benefits over a TRS. But geez, that Konrad is at least 3 more rebuilds! And yes, they DO look cool. If someone wants to do it for that reason alone, that's good with me! :yes:

[BigGrizzly]

Howard, I tend to agree, especially now that I only contract work. For me The $2,000, was just before talking with Kurt. I had the cash at the time to do the rebuild but not the drive. So my reasoning was similar to yours and Poodles. Replace the drive with a known entity, TRS, or go with a Bravo1 move the engine back glass the transom or bolt on an adapter plate, and put a bravo that I knew would fail with in 160 hours or less ( according to a Merc engineer in Stillwater) which would end up costing more then the Konrad anyway. After talking to many people the rebuild was the only affordable option. This option also meant 2 weeks down time at worst case. That also means My hydraulic steering did not have to be modified. BTW I did get a warranty from the shop for the work. Another tidbit. I even tried to buy a bravo from the shop and the owner told me it was a waste of money. I couls rebuild it 4 times for the price of a Bravo. He also said the replacement parts situation was a non issue unless I holed the case. The truth is I should have waited for some $$$ for the Konrad. Another sad day in my life.

[HOWARD O]

Well, it's a given that any of us with a TRS would rather have the konrad drive, who wouldn't? :yes: Also have to factor in those of us with a merctrans, which may need some rebuilds too. Although I'm convinced they aren't as weak as it's reputation would have you believe, thanks to you Grizz. But you'll still have that in the middle even with the Konrad.

Of course if cost were no object....... :eek:

[gcarter]

I know the alternatives to the Merctrans aren't as compact, but there some good ones; Zed Eff makes a good 1:1 hydraulic tranny good for 600 HP (I htink), also there's the tried and true modified Velvet Drive, and on the West coast there's a lot of two speed Chevy Powerglides.

[BigGrizzly]

Howard, As you know I DO have a powerful engine and the Merc trans. At the point of being raked over the coals, I will say the weakness of the trans IS overstated and I am convinced that my lower caused the trans to go. The point is 90% of the time the clutch plates go and nothing else. As a point of order, I also have a complete C72 Borg velvet drive with every thing I need to do the change, not for sale, and the Merctrans is still my choice. I had 800 hours on the lower unit before the rebuilt original 1980 trans stopped working after the lower let go. To be honest I really don't know what is weong with it because I just bolted another one in its place and will not look at it for a while. BTW BUIZ, Poodle, Cliff, and McCleary all still have the Merctrans.

[Lenny]

Wasn't there the MercTrans OR a BW 72C ?

If so, isn't the Borg Warner bulletproof (or can be ? )

[Boatless]

I still say the Bravo is the better choice. Less $ as there are many more of them out there, there is a Mercury GURU on every lake that can help if parts are needed, there are numerious companies that make upgrades for them (if it ever becomes an issue) and they will add resale value to your boat which neither of the other two choices will add.

Did I mention the BRAVO is Faster?

[BUIZILLA]

I've seen more TRS pulling Bravo's than the other way around... in fact, i've never seen a Bravo towing a TRS... :cool:

[HOWARD O]

I've seen more TRS pulling Bravo's than the other way around... in fact, i've never seen a Bravo towing a TRS... :cool:

Yeah, but I bet he was towing him too sloooow...... :wink:

[HOWARD O]

I still say the Bravo is the better choice. Less $ as there are many more of them out there, there is a Mercury GURU on every lake that can help if parts are needed, there are numerious companies that make upgrades for them (if it ever becomes an issue) and they will add resale value to your boat which neither of the other two choices will add.
Did I mention the BRAVO is Faster?

Bravos are great drives, no doubt about it. Like you say, can always find parts, etc. I'm not a Bravo basher, I have a Wellcraft with a 454 and Bravo 1. That thing was run in salt, sat in salt and really put through the ringer before I owned it. Still haven't had a lick of trouble with it since and it looks just terrible with all the pitting, etc.....

But like Poodle has stated, you have to go through some hoops to replace the TRS and I think if I were going to the trouble of "upgrading" from the TRS, I don't think Bravo would be the way I'd go. But each to his own and I wouldn't fault someone for going with a Bravo.

[roadtrip se]

After blowing two of 'em up up last year, and XZ and an XR, I wouldn't ever consider taking a TRS to a Bravo set-up.

BTW, the XZ was behind a Scorpion and the XR behind a 500, which is not big power for these "upgraded" Bravo drives...

As for going the cheapest route, some folks actually spend money on these boats based on subjective factors, like improving their chances to enjoy a trouble free summer on the lake. I replaced EVERYTHING behind the 22 late last season for this reason. My choice... it isn't always just about the dough.

[erikshube]

I was towed by a bravo once. However it was due to a failed belt. Not the drive. Actually when I hit the rocks that put me in this whole thing, I still was able to drive the boat into the dock which was about a 3 mile trip.

It seems to me from the way the thread is going, if someone is looking to replace a TRS with a brand new outdrive, Konrad would be the way to go. I would imagine moving the motor back would considerably change the performance of the boat. And it seems like it's a lot more work to change to a Bravo.

Howard - I threw out resale value before I even bought the boat. It's my belief that unless you have a true classic, you will never re-coop the amount of money put into a boat. I'm fine with dumping money into something thats worth more than the hull, I just try to look at what my goals are for the boat. But agreeing with you, Id be happy if a rebuild got me another 20 yrs.

[HOWARD O]

Truth is, I agree about throwing money into it. My brother restored his 16 and probably won't get out near what he put into it. I'll be the same way with my newly acquired 22, don't give a hoot about resale because I plan on keeping it forever and probably upgrading it constantly when funds allow!

If I were in your shoes with a crapped out TRS, I would rebuild it. But that's the only thing I could afford to do right now too! If I had more money, I would dearly love a Konrad and a new, modern engine with about 500 ponies to go along with it! Of course, fixing all the little cracks, a nice new LP paint job, some new gauges and interior........on and on and on. I did order me a new carpet from Bilt-rite a week ago though! Wasn't a priority for the boat, but it will keep 1st mate and her toes happy, so who was I to argue?

Hey, I was just playing devil's advocate......if you can afford it, there's NOTHING too good for your Hornet and I sincerely mean that! :kingme:

[Lenny]

You might want this book

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/RARE-MERCRUISER-SERVICE-MANUAL-%23-5-TR-TRS-STERN-DRIVE_W0QQitemZ370147980656QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20 090121?IMSfp=TL090121151006r18490

[HOWARD O]

You might want this book

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/RARE-MERCRUISER-SERVICE-MANUAL-%23-5-TR-TRS-STERN-DRIVE_W0QQitemZ370147980656QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20 090121?IMSfp=TL090121151006r18490

Wow Lenny, that was SPOOKY. I just received and email for payment confirmation and an email from the site notifying me of a new post by you about this manual. The payment confirmation was for the very same manual! I don't know, sent a shiver up my spine! :shocking:

You must check ebay at least as much as I do! And that's quite a bit!

[boxy]

I still say the Bravo is the better choice. Less $ as there are many more of them out there, there is a Mercury GURU on every lake that can help if parts are needed, there are numerious companies that make upgrades for them (if it ever becomes an issue) and they will add resale value to your boat which neither of the other two choices will add.
Did I mention the BRAVO is Faster?

I don't think the less $$$$'s argument will hold up whem you factor in all of the costs associated with changing a TRS boat to a Bravo boat.

[erikshube]

You might want this book

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/RARE-MERCRUISER-SERVICE-MANUAL-%23-5-TR-TRS-STERN-DRIVE_W0QQitemZ370147980656QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20 090121?IMSfp=TL090121151006r18490

That went quick!

My buddy found a TRS and Merc manual (electronic version) online for me. If anyone wants it shoot me an email and ill gladly share. I would upload it here if I knew how.

eriks@hornetmarine.com

[Boatless]

You been hanging round Stecz? Quit drinking the kool aide man.. :) :)
I can tell you for a fact a Bravo at stock height vs a TRS @ stock height on an 18 is NO faster.. I can also tell you a TRS on a 22 with a VERY mild 540 is as fast or faster then an HP500/Bravo powered 22. No one has dropped a HP500 in front of a TRS in a 22 so I can't give you an apples to apples comparison there,but I'd be willing to bet they would be damn close, almost as close as the 502/415 TRS powered Criterion that runs with the 502/415 Bravo standard 22's...
Which is about 1mph..
On GPS :)

Well there is your problem. Who puts the Bravo at the same depth as the TRS? The Bravo is a good 3" higher than the TRS, so that is a lot of speed.

When someone looks at a boat and they see an outdrive that is no longer in production vs one that is currently in production, (everything being the same) the Bravo boat is far more desirable.

[BigGrizzly]

Want to have some Fun measure the diameter of the TRS then factor in the aspect ratio. Then realize there is no water intake on the TRS. Then do a water level Vs the bottom of the boat and then you will start ti realize the prop sits farther back on the TRS. Does any body see where I am going with this. Now realize the shifter is in the Bravo with two cones and receivers- so weigh is almost the same except rotating is les in the lower unit, so the trans mass different minimal. Since the Merctrans is its bell housing, The bravo needs one. Boy now my head hurts. Changing to a Bravo1 does not seam like a good alternative! SOOO If I change I will go for broke with little work endeavor. Now whare is the closest lottery store?

[BigGrizzly]

Whoa Boatless go measure again. I own one, 2 inches at best. Now when I measured My Criterion against Tomahawk ( a 22 classic), The top of the prop blade was 1.25 inches deeper than. Tom's 22 classic. Now the set back. Now add the hydrodynamics and lack of the water inlets(which screw up the water flow), I think it is closer to a pretty even match.

[Boatless]

Want to have some Fun measure the diameter of the TRS then factor in the aspect ratio. Then realize there is no water intake on the TRS. Then do a water level Vs the bottom of the boat and then you will start ti realize the prop sits farther back on the TRS. Does any body see where I am going with this. Now realize the shifter is in the Bravo with two cones and receivers- so weigh is almost the same except rotating is les in the lower unit, so the trans mass different minimal. Since the Merctrans is its bell housing, The bravo needs one. Boy now my head hurts. Changing to a Bravo1 does not seam like a good alternative! SOOO If I change I will go for broke with little work endeavor. Now whare is the closest lottery store?

Well reasearching... OSO of all places, a Bravo 1 has a weight between 110 to 150 packaged. A 'velvet drive" transmission has a weigh of 109 lbs alone. So I don't think they are nearly the same weight.

The hp loss of a standard "velvet drive" is 39 hp according to BAM and unless someone has spent $2K @ BAM there is a hp loss in the transmission which is equal to the total hp loss of a Bravo. Fred Keikafer told me that the Bravo has a, read for this, 39 hp loss. So, ??

As for diameters, doesn't the same propeller fit the Bravo as well as the TRS? I could be wrong but I belive the Bravo lower unit is some 4.75" in diameter at the propeller. If they take the same propeller, then they are basically the same diameter.

Water pickup? High water pick ups are avaliable on the Bravo as well as low water pick ups.

I admit, if you have a TRS then it is not worth spending $ on anything else. But when one says change to something else, then that opens the door to a lot of other alternatives for the same $$ as a Konrad you can have a Bravo and they are more valuable.

By they way, I think the Bravo moves the engine rearward some 9" when compared to a TRS. This moves the CG farther aft.

[2donzi2]

I have had several TRS boats and prefer them to the bravo anyday. They are more reliable and shift into gear much smoother. Had an 84 22 classic with a BBC built by Dereberry in Pottsboro, TX, 465hp on the dyno that ran 80+ with a hydomotive 4 blade prop. I'd rebuild.

[BigGrizzly]

Boatless Please read MERCTRANS does not weigh 109 neither does a 72c The merc trans does hot weigh 65 pounds and the 72c is around 80 pounds. The horsepower loss when I called Tom Huber, Who started the trans build up and sold the stuff to bam, Told me it was 20 and the Merctrans was 7 or 10.
Now the diameter is the same but with the longer aspect ratio it is more efficient. Water pickup high or low screws the water flow. TRS has no pickup. All this is is fine. We all do know the 73c is a power hog even with the Bam kit. The next option is the new velvet drive , smaller and stronger than any of the 70 series. More$$$$. Regardless of the numbers the two boats that Poodle was referring to are the same speed within 1 MPH. THEORY is GOOD but HONEST testing is TRUTH.
Lets just say that if what you said about the 3 inches deeper drive is that much slower then with only 1 mph difference it would stand to reason the TRS is hydro dynamically superior. true or false'
Precision Propellers (Turbo), the second largest propeller company in the country, designed a prop for the TRS but works great on the TRS. but all the Criterion guys know this except Scott he still runs the prototype:wink:

[BUIZILLA]

sooooooo much conjecture and lip flapping...

spin the prop in neutral with a TRS, then do the same with a Bravo, and get back to me.... if your froggy, get a dial torque wrench and see how much force is necessary to turn either, then do the friction rotational math at 3300 shaft rpm, and let me know how much HP loss that translates to... Rootsy should be allll over this equation... :popcorn:

[Boatless]

I just put a 72C on a digital scal. 109.2 lbs

If the Merctrans is so low in hp loss, then they should bring it back! I spoke with Sage and his crash box (you know no shift with engine running transmission) has a 6 hp loss with 1/2 pint of 40 wt oil. Now if Merctrans can do it that good then they sir have one hell of a product that they have let slip though their hands. BAM and their strain gauge computes their modified Velvet drive @ 12 hp loss. Merctrans wins hands down over a BAM Velvet Drive or a Sage Crash Box. WOW:confused:

I guess you should reintroduce the TRS as it aparently is faster than the Bravos. There is a world of boats out there that can gain speed by switching to a TRS according to your hydronamic figures. Oh.. Isn't that external water pickup that is required for a TRS costing speed????

Oh and the Konrad is not as fast as a Bravo either so I guess their version of a TRS is not as good as your original either.

There is no free luch in boating.:bonk: