Navigation Light

[DonziDan16]

I need a new nav light anyway so I was thinking about upgrading to a pop-up. I can't decide whether I like the look or not though. Also, the idea of taking a saw to my boat isn't terribly appealing.

What is everyone's opinion on the pop-up lights?

I would probably go with the l.e.d. one from Livorsi.

[DC18]

I need a new nav light anyway so I was thinking about upgrading to a pop-up. I can't decide whether I like the look or not though. Also, the idea of taking a saw to my boat isn't terribly appealing.

What is everyone's opinion on the pop-up lights?

I would probably go with the l.e.d. one from Livorsi.

Looked at some myself. 1, I also don't like the idea of cutting a hole.
2, They are larger than the stock light (about twice the size)
just can't see a large piece of hardware on the front of the boat. Looks out of place.

[BUIZILLA]

the field of sight with the LED bow lights leaves a LOT to be desired... the highest intensity of the viewing field is head on with the bulb with an LED, once you wander from direct view the field of vision and intensity diminishes greatly...

[RedDog]

Take a look at this thread: http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=55851

[zelatore]

the field of sight with the LED bow lights leaves a LOT to be desired... the highest intensity of the viewing field is head on with the bulb with an LED, once you wander from direct view the field of vision and intensity diminishes greatly...

I'm not sure how true this is these days. The development of the reflectors for LEDs has been advancing in leaps and bounds lately.

You might be right, but I would think to get coast guard approval you would need to meet minimum illumination standards from all angles. It's possible they got lax in the testing, or maybe they've improved the product (?).

I'll look into this; there's a fair chance my girlfriend's company supplied the OEM with the LEDs and helped with the design so I'll see if she knows anything about it.

[DonziDan16]

the field of sight with the LED bow lights leaves a LOT to be desired... the highest intensity of the viewing field is head on with the bulb with an LED, once you wander from direct view the field of vision and intensity diminishes greatly...


If that's the case, LED is out of the question.

Zelatore, look forward to hearing what you find out.

[CHACHI]

Don't the lights have to Coast Gaurd approved?

Ken

[zelatore]

Don't the lights have to Coast Gaurd approved?

Ken

The CG spec for a sub 12m boat calls for 1 mile visibility over 112.5 degrees for this light.

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/Arcs.htm

What Buiz was pointing out earlier had been a problem with LED lighting in general until fairly recently; however newer reflector designs have helped solve this issue.

[BUIZILLA]

I don't see how the one shown above can be 112.5*

[DonziJon]

I think the light shows 112.5* to the Left AND 112.5* to the Right of center for a Total of 225*. Not positive, I would have to look it up. Wait: I just looked it up. 225* total. :yes: John

[DonziJon]

Is it necessary to crawl out on the foredeck and push a button or something to POP the light UP for use? :lookaroun: If this is the case it would seem to be inconvenient to use since ..even at the dock you wouldn't be able to reach it without crawling out on the foredeck... even more fun if your'e a little "lubricated" at the time. Just thinking ahead. John

[Last Real Texan]

Look herehttp://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/swap-shop/191589-led-pop-up-bow-light.html for a good price on a new one......

Tex

[DonziDan16]

Is it necessary to crawl out on the foredeck and push a button or something to POP the light UP for use? :lookaroun: If this is the case it would seem to be inconvenient to use since ..even at the dock you wouldn't be able to reach it without crawling out on the foredeck... even more fun if your'e a little "lubricated" at the time. Just thinking ahead. John


I was thinking the same thing.

[zelatore]

USCG aproved... (http://www.acconmarine.com/p-57-led-bow-light.aspx) This link is to the one shown above. Pictured below is their other model, clearly showing the USCG approval stamp on it...

I gotta say, I'm not diggin' the look with it up. Makes me think of an angry robot out to take over the world or something. Grrrr!

As for the 122.5* thing...
I spoke to Michele a bit. A basic LED typically only has 120* of spread vs. near 360* for an incandescent or halogen or whatever. You can improve on it with reflector designs. She didn't recognize Accon as one of their clients.

[DonziJon]

Stand By Men: I've been thinking again. :bonk: How about this: For $177 +/-my guess is..when you turn ON the lights, the "Unit" Pops UP automatically. NO?? Just trying to be Fair and Balanced. :yes: That's me. John

[HOWARD O]

Living on the water where it's very dark at night, I have had the opportunity to see a lot of different nav lights over the years. I'm not sold on LED lights for the very reason BUIZILLA says. We often go to the Outer Banks for 2-3 days at a time for some beach camping via boat. The boat is on the hook all night with the anchor light on and that is the time I find an LED attractive because of it's very low draw on the battery. Other than that, I just don't think they fit in well with an older boat, especially classic Donzis or Donzi Classics. But that's just my personal taste.

[gcarter]

Well, I like the "Angry Robot" look.
If anyone here has one that they just can't stand, I could be persuaded to take it off your hands.

[mattyboy]

can someone explain how it can be 225 degrees total when there is at least a 1/4 inch dead spot in the middle???

[erikshube]

can someone explain how it can be 225 degrees total when there is at least a 1/4 inch dead spot in the middle???

Maybe the light actually emits 225 degrees?

Dave H put one on his St. Tropez. I think it looks great. However being a center console w/ an open bow, popping it up is easy.

[yeller]

can someone explain how it can be 225 degrees total when there is at least a 1/4 inch dead spot in the middle??? It looks like there are 3 leds on each side. I would assume the innermost ones are pointed forward so (just as a vehicle has a 'dead spot' between the lights) it still projects light forward.

I was very, very close to buying a pop up light, but for now, I have changed my mind. I decided I don't care for the look of the led for the 'robot' reason zelatore mentioned and I don't care for the size and shape of the base of the standard one. So for now anyways, I'll be keeping the stock one.

[DC18]

It looks like there are 3 leds on each side. I would assume the innermost ones are pointed forward so (just as a vehicle has a 'dead spot' between the lights) it still projects light forward.

I was very, very close to buying a pop up light, but for now, I have changed my mind. I decided I don't care for the look of the led for the 'robot' reason zelatore mentioned and I don't care for the size and shape of the base of the standard one. So for now anyways, I'll be keeping the stock one.

I too like the stock nav light. P.S. they do make a LED replacement bulb for the stock light. ANCOR marine grade products, pn 529208, 12V, 40ma draw 32CP

[gcarter]

I haven't seen one up close, and haven't experienced the action, but, I wonder if a stiff rod running through some eyelets under the deck to a small piece of hardware attached to the bottom of the rotating portion could be made to work?
You know, push-pull.

[VetteLT193]

It would be really nice if it popped up when it was turned on and just manually closed.

I don't find myself boating in the dark much. I'd rather have one less thing sticking up on the bow. Less junk for dock lines to get caught on and my butt to get bruised on... with that in mind I really don't care how it looks open as long as it looks nice closed :yes:

As far as replacing the standard lights for LED's I understand there are major issues with LED Vs. regular lights and color filtering. If you notice the pop up light picture the lights look clear, there is no green/red filter to change the color. If you put white LED's in the regular bow light I think the Red will be fine but the green will turn blue because of the nature of the color filtering.

[glashole]

can someone explain how it can be 225 degrees total when there is at least a 1/4 inch dead spot in the middle???

why would there be a dead spot?

generally there are no separators between the green and red light lense therefore displaying a continuous band of light

even if there were a separator, any distance greater than about 20 ft away would make the separator disappear

[mattyboy]

I don't know but the space between the red and green looks big to me my divider between the colors was only paper thin. without seeing it in person it looks like it would project at an angle to the side not straight forward and if that is true that doesn't go away in 20 ft it gets worse over distance.

hey i think i walked by a math class sometime during my school daze and if it is a continuous 125 degree of green than a 125 degree of red seems like 180 degrees would do the trick so these are greater than that


this is the spec

http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/060199tip5.htm

[mattyboy]

CG approved, yuse wise guys doubting our guvmint? :nilly::nilly::eek:


no us guys are saying they done exceed the guvmint rools :pimp:

[glashole]

sorry matt

after checking what the rules up here are (in Canada)

there can be a space between the red and green as long as you can see both when you are directly ahead of the vessel

for instance on a large cruiser you can have the green on one side and the red on the other
since they both shine 112 degrees , one of those degrees on both lights is directly ahead

therefore there is a visible light 225 degrees around the bow of the vessel

the white has to make the rest of the circle

[mattyboy]

Shea,

yes similar to the link i posted it gives the reason and the way to test visibilty of your lights

[DonziDan16]

I think for now I'll stick with stock and save that extra $125 for the engine :)

Maybe I'll upgrade once they come out with a motorized version...or one that's less angry-robot-like :mad: It certainly would be interesting to see what one looks like lit up though.

Thanks everyone for your input.

[Ghost]

FWIW, I kinda dug the look of the light.

[fogducker III]

The light I got from CP Performance was only $89 and has the regular bulb in it. As far as popping the light up, the way I look it is the number of times I will be boating at night will be minimal so I really don't see a problem with climbing on the deck and opening it up, or most of the time we would be leaving a dock so not a big deal to reach over and flick it up, anyhow, pictures below, the lenses and bulb I have seem to do the trick just fine.....:wink:

[DonziJon]

Sorry Sorry Sorry. Show me a person that can reach over from the dock and Pop Up a bow light while a Donzi Classic is tied up at the dock. An orangutan? :lookaroun: :lookaroun:

It ain't 8:00 PM here yet..... SO... I'm still Totally Cool. :yes: John

[fogducker III]

Sorry Sorry Sorry. Show me a person that can reach over from the dock and Pop Up a bow light while a Donzi Classic is tied up at the dock. An orangutan? :lookaroun: :lookaroun:

It ain't 8:00 PM here yet..... so I'm still totally cool. :yes: John

John, until I installed the forward pop up cleats, I tied my bow line to the forward lift eye, upon each departure I had to untie the forward rope, I had absolutly no problem doing that, my pop up light is about 4-5" from the lift eye.....I don't see a problem. having said that, there is a trick, let a little slack out of your stern line BEFORE you undo it, and then you can pull the bow a little towards you and the dock........:wink: works like a charm. When I get to old to do that, I have kids...........:yes:

[DonziJon]

John, until I installed the forward pop up cleats, I tied my bow line to the forward lift eye, upon each departure I had to untie the forward rope, I had absolutely no problem doing that, my pop up light is about 4-5" from the lift eye.....I don't see a problem. having said that, there is a trick, let a little slack out of your stern line BEFORE you undo it, and then you can pull the bow a little to wards you and the dock........:wink: works like a charm. When I get to old to do that, I have kids...........:yes:

NOW There ...is a PLAN. :yes: John

PS: My tie up cleats are within reach of the cockpit...just foreword of the windscreen. (Minx) Not pop up. Never use the lifting eye. Aft cleats (not pop up) are on the quarters..I can reach them from the rear seat. John

[fogducker III]

NOW There ...is a PLAN. :yes: John

PS: My tie up cleats are within reach of the cockpit...just foreword of the windscreen. (Minx) Not pop up. Never use the lifting eye. Aft cleats (not pop up) are on the quarters..I can reach them from the rear seat. John


I think your plan is better...........:yes:

I also have my cleats mounted exactly where yours are, I did not have any mid ship and decided to go pop-up because when I was working on the engine leaning in from the side, when I exit the engine I use to sing soprano around the room for a few minutes each time after having intimate contact with the stern cleats.........:eek:

But I digress, the pop-up bow light is not for everyone, it does clean up the lines of the bow IMHO, and on the rare occasion it is needed it is not a big or difficult deal to pop it up, or down.

If you decided to get one I have an extra barge pole you can have to reach out and hook that little sucker.............:wink:

[VetteLT193]

I have a forward cleat, pop up, centerline. It sounds a whole lot better to add a couple forward of the shield. seems perfectly fine for regular docking, and on an overnight trip I could still use the forward one for extra security.

Plus, I could use an anchor shade by tying to the 4 cleats.

Dadgummit. another item to add to the list. :bonk:

[DonziDan16]

The light I got from CP Performance was only $89 and has the regular bulb in it. As far as popping the light up, the way I look it is the number of times I will be boating at night will be minimal so I really don't see a problem with climbing on the deck and opening it up, or most of the time we would be leaving a dock so not a big deal to reach over and flick it up, anyhow, pictures below, the lenses and bulb I have seem to do the trick just fine.....:wink:


I must admit, it looks pretty good. And $89 is easier to swallow than $175...
decisions, decisions :nilly:

[Madcow]

can someone explain how it can be 225 degrees total when there is at least a 1/4 inch dead spot in the middle???
Well, tere is at least 5 feet between the head lights on my truck, and ther is no dead spot up there.

[Donziweasel]

I'll give ya another option. The previous owner of my critter put them in where docking lights would go flush with the hull. Nice clean look, always there and ready to go.

[DonziJon]

I LIKE Pop Up cleats. PUSH the little button. Ka-Ching. Checked on them maybe 10 years ago. They were about $100 each. ....POOF. :nilly: John

[VetteLT193]

I must admit, it looks pretty good. And $89 is easier to swallow than $175...
decisions, decisions :nilly:

Reality is you use the nav light while running so power draw isn't an issue anyway. Anchor light would be nice to have LED, but when we're stopped, even at night the stereo trumps the anchor light for power supply:bonk:

[DonziJon]

When I was into cruising with my sailboats.. (Matty)... I had an anchor light that was powered by a single 6V dry cell battery. I hung it on the forestay at night. It was enabled by a photo cell and would turn on at dusk and turn off at dawn...while we were anchored. The battery lasted ALL season..and we did a LOT of cruising every summer. :) John

[DonziDan16]

I'll give ya another option. The previous owner of my critter put them in where docking lights would go flush with the hull. Nice clean look, always there and ready to go.


Have any pics?

[BigGrizzly]

DW the hull lights are stock that way on the Criterion. The docking light on the Criterion is a electrically operated pop up light on the bow right in the middle of the stripe. Just like mine all original. I use to use it as my avtar untill someone else started using my picture for his.
http://www.donzi.net/forums/Avatars/BigGrizzly.gif

[joseph m. hahnl]

I don't know but the space between the red and green looks big to me my divider between the colors was only paper thin. without seeing it in person it looks like it would project at an angle to the side not straight forward and if that is true that doesn't go away in 20 ft it gets worse over distance.

hey i think i walked by a math class sometime during my school daze and if it is a continuous 125 degree of green than a 125 degree of red seems like 180 degrees would do the trick so these are greater than that


this is the spec

http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/060199tip5.htm


When Head on!
It only matters that you see both colors straight on. There could be a 12 foot gap between them it has no relevance for line of sight. when slightly turned one color is always going to fade to the other.

[Ghost]

I don't know but the space between the red and green looks big to me my divider between the colors was only paper thin. without seeing it in person it looks like it would project at an angle to the side not straight forward and if that is true that doesn't go away in 20 ft it gets worse over distance.

This may be dead, but given the recent post above I thought I'd chime in too. I played with a LOT of lights, and did a lot of experiments this year. I think the appearances of the housings can be a bit deceptive in the way you describe. Despite their design to approximate a point source, the common vertical filament bulbs (the proper term escapes me) for these lights are not a pure point source. So, there is more to where the light goes than most will be able to eyeball by looking over the fixture.

I actually tested a few lights for the angle they covered, and concluded the only way I'd be able to really aim them was to actually aim them. You should have seen my sorry butt sitting on the bow at night with temporary wiring, lining them up like I wanted. (I was doing split bi-colors, one on either side of my anchor roller.)

I'm sure there is a better way, but there was enough slop in the setup that I made doubly sure I had it, rather than just eyeballing the paper mounting template.

BTW, I think what you'll find in real testing is that there is NO blind spot at all, but rather, a small sliver of angle dead ahead where both colors are visible. Any single fixture light where this was not the case, in my view, should fail spec, for exactly the reasons you describe, where the dead spot grows in absolute width with increasing distance.

FWIW, which may be very little...