Exhaust Choices

[techspecial]

I just picked up the Blueprint 395HP smallblock for my Minx...
Now it's exhaust time. Limited budget! What's the difference between Stainless Marine, Eddie Marine and GLM? I know that EMI and GLM are all aluminum and Stainless Marine has stainless innards, but what is the performance difference? Is it worth the big price difference? Has anyone had problems with any of these? I have one of the rare Minxes with the S pipes and exhaust flappers at the water line. Thanks, Mike:confused:

[LKSD]

Mike feel free to give me a shout tomorrow or late this afternoon. We sell & install all of those kits. I can go over the systems with you & the differences. The SM kit does not have ss innards, but the risers are all ss. The manifolds are aluminum & thier kits work very well. :) ... Jamie / Lakeside 570-639-2628

[VetteLT193]

I just picked up the Blueprint 395HP smallblock for my Minx...
Now it's exhaust time. Limited budget! What's the difference between Stainless Marine, Eddie Marine and GLM? I know that EMI and GLM are all aluminum and Stainless Marine has stainless innards, but what is the performance difference? Is it worth the big price difference? Has anyone had problems with any of these? I have one of the rare Minxes with the S pipes and exhaust flappers at the water line. Thanks, Mike:confused:

What's the cam in that engine? If it's big, and I assume it is with that kind of power, you need the longer tail pipes to deal with reversion issues.

The EMI Thunder doesn't fit without some changes. I think the SM setup with the long tails custom welded is $2,200. I can't say on the height for them, but at the very least they have the round mounting so the width is easier to deal with.

Eddie Marine charges an additional $350-ish for the custom work on the tails, so add that in.

I doubt GLM will be good enough (I.E. handle reversion issues).

Here is my EMI tail installed in my Minx. You'll see it's too low and at the wrong angle. It's also a bit too wide.

EDIT... Oops, just realized you have a totally different exhaust anyway... This may give you an idea though anyway...

[MOP]

Hard to tell by your picture, just how far off is it?? It may be possible to use the silicone bellows hose, that will make up for a little over 1/2". Trident has the item that may work, check the one third from the left in this link: http://www.tridentmarine.com/stage/wetex_elbows.htm

[BigGrizzly]

Let me interject something, We have done dyno tests on all but the new Dana, At this point with the Exhaust that you mentioned. I would recommend the Stainless Marine.,My particular boats don't have them because the Criterion was build around the big $$$$$ CMI and no one makes any for the 351 big port Ford Cleveland. Most of the big name exhausts really don't do as well as the SM ones. My son put them on his 7.4 blower motor and fit and finish was impeccable. At the time he could afford anything on the market. Of course someone will visit another site and voice their opinion. I deal in facts not fiction. :popcorn:

[VetteLT193]

Hard to tell by your picture, just how far off is it?? It may be possible to use the silicone bellows hose, that will make up for a little over 1/2". Trident has the item that may work, check the one third from the left in this link: http://www.tridentmarine.com/stage/wetex_elbows.htm

If I take a straight edge down the length of the riser I'm 1 1/8 too low. That number is exaggerated because I'm lengthening the problem by putting the straight edge on the riser instead of the tip. The other direction, going from the tip to the riser it is only about a half-inch.

How flexible is that trident stuff? Is it really easy to work around or is it only semi-flexible?


Let me interject something, We have done dyno tests on all but the new Dana, At this point with the Exhaust that you mentioned. I would recommend the Stainless Marine.,My particular boats don't have them because the Criterion was build around the big $$$$$ CMI and no one makes any for the 351 big port Ford Cleveland. Most of the big name exhausts really don't do as well as the SM ones. My son put them on his 7.4 blower motor and fit and finish was impeccable. At the time he could afford anything on the market. Of course someone will visit another site and voice their opinion. I deal in facts not fiction. :popcorn:

On top of that the easier installation with the round neck makes SM worth while if you can get by with the short tail pipes.

But if you need the long tails and if price is really a factor SM is probably going to be a few bucks more for the long-tailed custom welded set. (over EMI). I can't say what the total difference is, and if it's worth the headache of the hard 4 bolt mount EMI uses.

[fasttrucker]

I was looking at the dry-exhaust system from stainless marine.They make it for the small block.www.cpperformance.com best price.That might be the way to go no water reversion.

[MOP]

[quote=VetteLT193;490557]If I take a straight edge down the length of the riser I'm 1 1/8 too low. That number is exaggerated because I'm lengthening the problem by putting the straight edge on the riser instead of the tip. The other direction, going from the tip to the riser it is only about a half-inch.

How flexible is that trident stuff? Is it really easy to work around or is it only semi-flexible?

Very flexible, especially the double humped hose.

[VetteLT193]

Very flexible, especially the double humped hose.

Thanks! I'll try that before sending them back in... Now I wonder if it is available locally. I'll try to stop by Boaters world on the way home to see if they have it...

[VetteLT193]

I was looking at the dry-exhaust system from stainless marine.They make it for the small block.www.cpperformance.com best price.That might be the way to go no water reversion.

The issue with dry is there is really no flexibility, and they are loud as hell. I also don't think they would add anything to a small block. They would probably sound better on a boat like yours with a swim platform though.

All of the mid-range and higher systems, EMI SM CMI Imco lightening etc, are overkill for flow for 99% of SBC's out there.

In case anyone doesn't know: MadPoodle is a SM dealer

[techspecial]

I'm confused about reversion:confused:
Will it be a problem with my S pipes and flappers at the water line?

[VetteLT193]

I'm confused about reversion:confused:
Will it be a problem with my S pipes and flappers at the water line?

Quickie summary on reversion:

Bigger cams have the exhaust help the intake, bottom line is there is some exhaust, at low RPM, that gets sucked back into the engine. If the water dumps in the exhaust are too close to the manifold the engine sucks back in water and exhaust mixed.

In my picture of the EMI system, the water dumps (where the water mixes with the exhaust) is right at the end of the pipe I pictured. Bottom line is it's a long way away from the engine so it shouldn't ever revert even with a big cam. The stock exhaust dumps just past the elbow, that is not good because it is very close. The standard Stainless marine exhaust also dumps close to the manifold AND the owner of SM told me it could revert worse with a cammed engine over stock because they flow better... basically, better out and also better back in.

I have a mildly cammed 350 and Stainless told me to go long tails, he said I might not seem to have a problem but could be sucking back in water and one day wind up with a stuck valve. That makes perfect sense... so error on the side of caution, which will be a longer pipe with the water dumps far way from the manifold.

I have to assume that your water will mix with your exhaust before the S pipe, so it's pre-S pipe that matters for reversion.

[BigGrizzly]

Vett, better out does not mean better in itis called tuning of pipes as you already know.When the flow is moving reversion isn't that big of a deal. Emi are at the bottom of my list. He said 395 HP small block then I definitely not go with EMI. If you got a 395 Hp in a small block and you skimp just build a smaller motor. Either do it or don't. You all have heard it before. I just built my motor and it isn't any faster.:nilly: Get the picture. I personally don't know anyone who built the motor correctly ever having a problem with SM stuff, big or small block..

[VetteLT193]

Vett, better out does not mean better in itis called tuning of pipes as you already know.When the flow is moving reversion isn't that big of a deal. Emi are at the bottom of my list. He said 395 HP small block then I definitely not go with EMI. If you got a 395 Hp in a small block and you skimp just build a smaller motor. Either do it or don't. You all have heard it before. I just built my motor and it isn't any faster.:nilly: Get the picture. I personally don't know anyone who built the motor correctly ever having a problem with SM stuff, big or small block..

As I already stated: I was told that information from the owner of stainless marine. I'm willing to bet that he knows his products better than you do.

I told him what I had in my boat, which is a mildly cammed 350 and he told me NOT to use the short Stainless Marine exhaust tails. He told me to use the setup with the longer tail pipes (which is still a SM product). If techspecial's engine is the one I think it is, he'll be going from a stock 201/211 duration cam to a 224/230 cam. That's big for shorty tails.

As far as the best or worst system, I haven't seen much data for Small Blocks... if anyone has real numbers please post them because it's darn near impossible to get good information. My best guesstimate based on everything I have learned is that no one would see more than a 10HP difference between the best and the worst aftermarket SBC exhaust.

And regarding money, adding a $2000+ exhaust system to a $4000-5000 engine is a tough pill to swallow. So I understand the budget concerns techspecial has. A couple hundred bucks cheaper could mean a whole lot. I know it would to me:yes:

[techspecial]

Call me stupid but I bought the engine not knowing about the exhaust issues. It ain't goin' back. I'm just trying to figure out if I can get away with some of the less expensive exhaust systems without destroying my engine. Bling factor is not an issue for me...I firmly believe that the only time anyone sees your engine is when you have the hatch open for a problem...I do like the polished stainless valve covers though!!! Thanks, Everybody!!!:)

[BigGrizzly]

Mark, I don't think your stupid for buying that engine. Your issue isn't a bad one. I have a 351 Ford Big port Ford Cleveland with a big cam and only 108 lobe centers, It can be made to work. That motor has 2.15 intake valves and 1.88 exhausts. that is an accident waiting to happen. However it has been fine since 1992. Longer pipes would be better, but you don't need dry pipes. Just you can Not use prop exhaust, This is where the reversion mostly happens The prop becomes an issue especially in reverse. Vetts opinion on horse power difference may be correct in many instances. The numbers we ran were on a 350Cid 408 HP engine. A mule we use for dyno testing and calibration. A lesser engine, would definitely have a smaller differential as a more powerful engine would have a bigger differential. We did the most testing on big blocks because there is a bigger market. This was a couple of years ago. When you start feeling down remember it is a lot easier to de-tune if necessary then it is to go up.

[VetteLT193]

Mark, I don't think your stupid for buying that engine. Your issue isn't a bad one. I have a 351 Ford Big port Ford Cleveland with a big cam and only 108 lobe centers, It can be made to work. That motor has 2.15 intake valves and 1.88 exhausts. that is an accident waiting to happen. However it has been fine since 1992. Longer pipes would be better, but you don't need dry pipes. Just you can Not use prop exhaust, This is where the reversion mostly happens The prop becomes an issue especially in reverse. Vetts opinion on horse power difference may be correct in many instances. The numbers we ran were on a 350Cid 408 HP engine. A mule we use for dyno testing and calibration. A lesser engine, would definitely have a smaller differential as a more powerful engine would have a bigger differential. We did the most testing on big blocks because there is a bigger market. This was a couple of years ago. When you start feeling down remember it is a lot easier to de-tune if necessary then it is to go up.

do you still have the details of the 350 tests? The information is not obtainable at this point for SB. If you have it but it isn't electronic I'll type it up and post it if you can fax it to me.

[BigGrizzly]

I am going to the shop either tomorrow or Thursday, I will check to see if the computer stuff is still there. Usuall they don't delete that stuff for a couple of years, I think they did it the fall before Bateman put hid SM on Let me see what I cone up with.

[VetteLT193]

I am going to the shop either tomorrow or Thursday, I will check to see if the computer stuff is still there. Usuall they don't delete that stuff for a couple of years, I think they did it the fall before Bateman put hid SM on Let me see what I cone up with.

Awesome, I really hope you can find it as it would be a GREAT reference for all us that have small blocks :crossfing:

[BigGrizzly]

Well gentlemen, I just got my butt chewed when I asked for the information. It turns out it was 2003 and a company(unnamed) paid to have the tests run. they shipped in the exhaust and they were shipped back at the end of the tests. Apparently there were 3 other speed shops that got the same deal. So the information is not for sale. At this point I did not think it was a good idea to push it.

[osur866]

I did SM on my stock 6.2 with short tails and corsa Q&Q and have run it for about 60hrs. with no signs of reversion, I do however try to idle it up a tad while at idle, don't know the cam specs off hand, have them somewhere, but when I talked to Brownie he said I was right on the edge. hope it helps Steve