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SilverBack
01-23-2009, 08:17 AM
OK..Today is a new day!! It is time to move onward and upward. I was talking to my older brother yesterday. The one that still has the fastest boat in the family. He asked me if I had my boat balanced yet. I said not really...He said that in the high performance bass boat world that they balance the boats pretty precisely before they go up around the triple digits and beyond. He said that it was a "no brain er" to move weight around add ballast where necessary to balance the boat. He says that not only does it make the boat a lot easier to drive and a lot safer but it makes it faster even if you have to add ballast (weight). In a 110 to 120 MPH bass boat they know exactly where they want this center of balance. He says that it needs to be where if you had a pointed stake sticking up and you set the boat(in their case with the driver) the boat would balance perfectly side to side and for and aft.


My question.....Where would you want this point to be in an offshore boat like we run? Are there companies or people that ballast these boats like the bass boats? Has anyone here gone to that point of balancing to that fine of a point? If there are people here that have done that ...... what were your thoughts?

VetteLT193
01-23-2009, 08:48 AM
Reggie Fountain talks about balance a lot. Balance is really how he can get his boats to run record speeds, he can keep more of the boat out of the water that way.

SilverBack
01-23-2009, 01:51 PM
I got some information today. I talked to Rick at Arneson. The Lateral Center of Gravity should be 25% of the length of your hull from the rear of the hull. He said the best way to determine where yours is would be to run a strap under your boat and pick up on it with an overhead crane or something like that.Just pick it up a little bit. If it falls forward. You LCG is forward of that point. If it falls back then it is AFT or that location. Then you can move stuff or ballast accordingly.



:wink:

DonziJon
01-23-2009, 02:19 PM
I got some information today. I talked to Rick at Arneson. The Lateral Center of Gravity should be 25% of the length of your hull from the rear of the hull. He said the best way to determine where yours is would be to run a strap under your boat and pick up on it with an overhead crane or something like that.Just pick it up a little bit. If it falls forward. You LCG is forward of that point. If it falls back then it is AFT or that location. Then you can move stuff or ballast accordingly.

So if you pick up the boat and fiddle around with the strap location until the boat is balancd, that means you've found the CG right? No need to add ballast at all. :bonk: John

SilverBack
01-23-2009, 02:27 PM
John......



It will tell you where your LCG is and then you can add balast to move the LCG in the right direction.

DonziJon
01-23-2009, 02:46 PM
SO: I wonder if the fuel tank is located AT the CG, so the balance will not change, no matter how much fuel is in the tank. This IS taken in to account in Airplanes. :lookaroun: Fuel weighs 6 pounds/gallon. John

Lenny
01-23-2009, 02:56 PM
SO: I wonder if the fuel tank is located AT the CG, so the balance will not change, no matter how much fuel is in the tank. This IS taken in to account in Airplanes. :lookaroun: Fuel weighs 6 pounds/gallon. John

Ours weighs 7.22 pounds per gallon.

DonziJon
01-23-2009, 03:29 PM
Ours weighs 7.22 pounds per gallon.

Actually I was a little off. Gasoline weighs 5.87 pounds/US gallon. Could be you have some water in the gas. Are we talkin High Test or Regular? :bonk: Water weighs 8.34 pounds/US gallon. Water in fuel not so good.

BTW: I thought you guys in Canada measured your fuel by the Litre. John

Boatless
01-23-2009, 03:29 PM
One needs to look up the "Specific Gravity" of the fuel they are using in order to determine the weight per gallon and thus the weigh in the boat.

http://www.powermasters.com/Density%20&%20Sp.%20Gr/specific_gravity.html

RedDog
01-23-2009, 03:41 PM
Does Canada use the "Imperial Gallon"? Makes a diference

DonziJon
01-23-2009, 03:54 PM
The Specific Gravity of water = 1.000 (The reference)
The Specific Gravity of gasoline = .72
The Specific Gravity of Alcohol (Methyl) = .810

The trouble with getting into Specific Gravity is you have to start to consider Temperature which is getting too complicated for everyday use. :yes: John

Boatless
01-23-2009, 04:14 PM
The Specific Gravity of water = 1.000 (The reference)
The Specific Gravity of gasoline = .72
The Specific Gravity of Alcohol (Methyl) = .810
The trouble with getting into Specific Gravity is you have to start to consider Temperature which is getting to complicated for everyday use. :yes: John

Yes but. This is real life and you have to consider everyday conditions. Like your motors will run fatter in the winter and leaner in the summer.

Real life demands real life knowledge.

Lenny
01-23-2009, 04:51 PM
Actually I was a little off. Gasoline weighs 5.87 pounds/US gallon. Could be you have some water in the gas. Are we talkin High Test or Regular? :bonk: Water weighs 8.34 pounds/US gallon. Water in fuel not so good.

BTW: I thought you guys in Canada measured your fuel by the Litre. John


Our "Imperial gallon" is 4.55 liters, yours is 3.78. I was being a smart ass :D

DONZI
01-23-2009, 05:35 PM
I've wondered about the correct method for doing this also. I thought i remembered somewhere mentioned 45 % forward to the 55 % on the rear mentioned. I would think the Boat racers would be familiar with the proper percentages, unless different boats require different set ups.With different lifting strakes etc. for proper running attitude. It maybe a trade secret for what it takes to make them fly straight and true when they are in the air. The only thing with the strap method is the tank must need to be full to prevent weight transfer.
I am going to hang mine from scales on eyelets ft & rear someday to see where i'm at.I have seen a pic. from the Skater Factory where they were doing this. It had been removed from the post rather quickly also.
Then there is the question of-
Full tank or half ?
Driver & Passenger ??
Side to side weight ??
Race cars are set up with scales as a common practice. Only makes sense.


Here's one that fly's straight & true !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4X1RMppSGI





..

DonziJon
01-23-2009, 06:17 PM
Our "Imperial gallon" is 4.55 liters, yours is 3.78. I was being a smart ass :D

I also... was just being a smart ass when I mentioned High Test Vs. Regular. :yes: I guess I need to do some tedious conversions (dig out the old files) to find out where I'm at...... ........Nah. It does bring back some memories from when I had some input in things....before retirement. :lookaroun: John

BigGrizzly
01-23-2009, 06:32 PM
Now that some of the smart remarks have been aired. Now you have the boat balanced. So now what happens?

DonziJon
01-23-2009, 06:34 PM
Yes but. This is real life and you have to consider everyday conditions. Like your motors will run fatter in the winter and leaner in the summer.
Real life demands real life knowledge.

YUP: I agree. Back in the day I used to fly airplanes. There is a little push/pull knob on the panel (dash) that allows you to adjust the FATness of the mixture "on the fly". The primary purpose is to compensate for altitude. The higher you go the thinner the air gets. Didn't matter what time of year. Winter BTW was a GOOD time for aircraft performance because of the dense air. Better lift. :cool!: John

VetteLT193
01-23-2009, 07:14 PM
I got some information today. I talked to Rick at Arneson. The Lateral Center of Gravity should be 25% of the length of your hull from the rear of the hull. He said the best way to determine where yours is would be to run a strap under your boat and pick up on it with an overhead crane or something like that.Just pick it up a little bit. If it falls forward. You LCG is forward of that point. If it falls back then it is AFT or that location. Then you can move stuff or ballast accordingly.



:wink:


Where do you measure, from the back of the transom to the tip of the nose?

I'm curious where various boats are. I'm thinking that Donzi classics are pretty close to that. 25% puts a 22 and Minx at the back seat area which I'd guess is about where it actually is.

On the ZX with more weight forward I have to assume it's significantly farther forward than 25%.

SilverBack
01-23-2009, 07:58 PM
Where do you measure, from the back of the transom to the tip of the nose?

I'm curious where various boats are. I'm thinking that Donzi classics are pretty close to that. 25% puts a 22 and Minx at the back seat area which I'd guess is about where it actually is.

On the ZX with more weight forward I have to assume it's significantly farther forward than 25%.

I think that is the problem that we are running into with these boats. I think that is why a lot of companies..I guess most all of them came out with step hulls. You can free the hull up without getting the bow that high. It is hard to move the weight back and have the cabin and all that goes along with that. My ZX is further forward that that for sure. Rik at Arneson said that yacht designers measure from the bow back and performance boat designers measure from the transom forward. The fuel tank on my ZX starts under the rear seat and goes forward between the bolsters. On race boats they have the cabins stripped down and don't have anything but an empty shell up there to help move the LCG to the rear. From what I gather ...a boat rides better in rough stuff with the LCG moved forward of the 25% mark. Boats go faster on smooth water with it rear of that mark. They "fly" at about 8% bow high when the LCG is at 25%. That is just some rule of thumb guidlines that I was told about. Some of the first aluminum swim decks that were put on race type boats were supposedly done so with lead built in the rear most part. To move the LCG without people knowing what they were doing. I was told by one guy that has been around building a lot of big time race boats that a well handling boat that is balanced will beat a "faster" boat that is a handfull and not balanced most of the time!

SilverBack
01-23-2009, 08:11 PM
Where do you measure, from the back of the transom to the tip of the nose?

I'm curious where various boats are. I'm thinking that Donzi classics are pretty close to that. 25% puts a 22 and Minx at the back seat area which I'd guess is about where it actually is.

On the ZX with more weight forward I have to assume it's significantly farther forward than 25%.

From what he said the rule of thumb was..a 22 would be 5' to 5' 6". On my ZX 5' 5" to 6' is where I would want it to be. In a thread on a different site the one of the guy was talking about balancing side to side and said to put a piece of electrical tape on the same spot on both sides close to where the water line is. Launch the boat and move the sand bags around until you get the pieces of tape the same point from the water to get an idea how much weight it will take to balance. Then you can do things like moving batteries or trim pumps or the like to balance side to side when you take the sand bags back out.

MOP
01-23-2009, 08:13 PM
[quote=Boatless;490142]Yes but. This is real life and you have to consider everyday conditions. Like your motors will run fatter in the winter and leaner in the summer.

Don't agree! Cold air is quite a bit denser then warm summer air, you get more air in making for a leaner condition, for the most part our boats run their best on a cool morning.

Phil

VetteLT193
01-23-2009, 08:46 PM
So... in summary you'll want to move yours back as far as you can get it to go the fastest, correct?

Seems to me that a 2nd fuel tank(s) really far back with the main tank empty would really help. Of course stripping the cabin would help too. :nilly:

Thanks for posting all the specifics too. Good to learn details regardless:)

SilverBack
01-23-2009, 09:30 PM
So... in summary you'll want to move yours back as far as you can get it to go the fastest, correct?

Seems to me that a 2nd fuel tank(s) really far back with the main tank empty would really help. Of course stripping the cabin would help too. :nilly:

Thanks for posting all the specifics too. Good to learn details regardless:)


I want to move it back. I want to find out where it is really before I jump the gun but I know that it is forward from where it needs to be. I do think that you could go too far.

RedDog
01-24-2009, 09:33 AM
Too bad the engineers didn't determine the best balance point when they designed the boat. They always forget that...

SilverBack
01-24-2009, 10:06 AM
Too bad the engineers didn't determine the best balance point when they designed the boat. They always forget that...




Too bad the boats that we are talking about are modified!

MOP
01-24-2009, 10:30 AM
Too bad the engineers didn't determine the best balance point when they designed the boat. They always forget that...

I feel they have to try to be middle of the road, they need to give good performance but also make the general layout work for the majority of the customers needs. In my case I moved quite a bit of weight aft, it made for a better ride, handling and got rid of the inherent porpoising that many 22's have. It also reduced the amount of trim needed to get the bow up. It did coat me the floor locker, but I did manage to add good storage under the back seat which was useless before.

fogducker III
01-24-2009, 11:05 AM
Depending on fuel load, passengers, extra gear, weather conditions etc.........I just move the beer cooler around to the right spot.............:wink:

BigGrizzly
01-24-2009, 12:00 PM
Several things. Better handling does beat speed in cars, motorcycles and boats, as does a better driver beats a ballsy one, with a point to prove. Race boats have ballast tank that can be filled and emptied on the fly. The real reason race boats don't have anything under the deck is just added useless weight and under certain conditions in the wrong place. As for boat design and balance points That is always a consideration in the design of boats even Bayliner. The thing is generalization of where the weight goes. At the first home town rally I had this conversation with the late Steve Simon. Even the early 16 and 18 classics were done. That being said I expect all of you to run out and by slings and hoists at Northern hyd. ( there is a sale on) and balance your boats, by tomorrow. One other small point you need to take into consideration where your drive sits in relation to the planing surface. makes a big difference too.

Lenny
01-24-2009, 12:59 PM
That being said I expect all of you to run out and by slings and hoists at Northern hyd. ( there is a sale on) and balance your boats, by tomorrow. One other small point you need to take into consideration where your drive sits in relation to the planing surface. makes a big difference too.

Grizz, I have a 12" I-beam, a 7'6" spreader, 4000 pound slings and currently an X-18 RIGHT underneath with a half tank of fuel. Don't think that hasn't crossed my mind ;)

SilverBack
01-24-2009, 07:24 PM
That being said I expect all of you to run out and by slings and hoists at Northern hyd. ( there is a sale on) and balance your boats, by tomorrow. One other small point you need to take into consideration where your drive sits in relation to the planing surface. makes a big difference too.


Yes...Balance is very important and it seems like it would have come up in my 25 ZX thread over a whole year or when we are talking about surface drives or bow lift. Where your LCG is located has a huge bearing on all of that! Why have to make any more corrections than necessary with props and k-planes and the such when you can take care of most of those problems with balance.

FISHIN SUCKS
01-24-2009, 07:36 PM
Depending on fuel load, passengers, extra gear, weather conditions etc.........I just move the beer cooler around to the right spot.............:wink:
I am right there with ya brutha:yes:....and if that isn't enough, play with the trim tabs.

fogducker III
01-24-2009, 07:39 PM
I am right there with ya brutha:yes:....and if that isn't enough, play with the trim tabs.


Or ask the fat chick to shuffle port............:eek:

SilverBack
01-24-2009, 07:41 PM
Tom..from what I am hearing ...the trim tabs can help you if your LCG is too far aft ....but if it is too far forward they can't help at all. It seems that a lot of race boats run ballast tanks that they can fill or empty the water out of. Some have several tanks in different locations.

fogducker III
01-24-2009, 07:42 PM
Yes...Balance is very important and it seems like it would have come up in my 25 ZX thread over a whole year or when we are talking about surface drives or bow lift. Where your LCG is located has a huge bearing on all of that! Why have to make any more corrections than necessary with props and k-planes and the such when you can take care of most of those problems with balance.

So let me get this right, you are saying with placing a couple of "sand bags" you could have fixed most of your problems?

Sounds like a cheap fix to me............:yes:

SilverBack
01-24-2009, 07:45 PM
So let me get this right, you are saying with placing a couple of "sand bags" you could have fixed most of your problems?

Sounds like a cheap fix to me............:yes:


It could be sand bags in a classic or bass boat. It could be sand bags but more than likely ballast tanks or lead or something like that in a heavier boat. If you can get the balance right..you can spend a lot more thrust on moving forward instead of battling bad habits of the boat. Like using downward thrust at the prop to lift the bow. Or like trim tabs scrubbing speed to keep the bow down.

FISHIN SUCKS
01-24-2009, 11:07 PM
Or ask the fat chick to shuffle port............:eek:
Too funny!

I hear ya Keith regarding the trim tab comment I made. But considering factory prepared race boats compared to stock production wannabe race boats (not directed at you, I am speaking for a majority that want to be/are fast), simple things can be done like a prop to get you more lift or simply raising your trim on the outdrive. You may not know this, but there will be amateur racing put on by OSS during the same weekend as AOTH this year. Bring your helmet:yes:

HallJ
01-25-2009, 02:53 AM
Here ya go guys,

I used three scales and three floor jacks.
I came up with the long cg being 63.04 inches forward of the transom. With a 20 ft. boat that gives you 26.26% with a level keel and 22 gal of fuel.

Jeff

DONZI
01-25-2009, 06:27 AM
Great work Jeff.
I notice the pic. was pre- Arneson set up.
Have you ck'd to see much change with the current set up ??
I wonder also if a near empty tank would show change also ?

Donziweasel
01-25-2009, 06:47 AM
So let me get this right, you are saying with placing a couple of "sand bags" you could have fixed most of your problems?

Sounds like a cheap fix to me............

Don't underestimate sand. It is some dense heavy stuff. We use it in the back of pickup trucks out here to get bite in the winter. One small tube weighs 100 pounds. A fertilizer sized bag weighs much more. Good stuff for ballast. Won't tear up things like a metal such as lead.

BUIZILLA
01-25-2009, 06:51 AM
2993 seems low to me... especially if it has fuel in it... is that a small block Alpha boat?

DONZI
01-25-2009, 07:17 AM
2993 seems low to me... especially if it has fuel in it... is that a small block Alpha boat?
Factory Brouchure has it at 2700 # and yes it is a small block/ believe with Alpha.

SilverBack
01-25-2009, 07:36 AM
2993 seems low to me... especially if it has fuel in it... is that a small block Alpha boat?
Buiz......Have you ever done any work or had any dealings with balance in a boat? Do you have any rule of thumb that you use?

SilverBack
01-25-2009, 07:46 AM
Too funny!
I hear ya Keith regarding the trim tab comment I made. But considering factory prepared race boats compared to stock production wannabe race boats (not directed at you, I am speaking for a majority that want to be/are fast), simple things can be done like a prop to get you more lift or simply raising your trim on the outdrive. You may not know this, but there will be amateur racing put on by OSS during the same weekend as AOTH this year. Bring your helmet:yes:



Tom ....... The event that I am shooting for is LOTO Shootout!



I am also trying to do the Tickfaw 200 poker run the week before AOTH.

You may not have noticed in my pictures but ...... I am overtrimmed now! I am running as fast as I ever wanted to. Now I am just working on making it more consistent and smoother! I love the 35 ft tall and 120 ft long rooster but that has to be wasting a lot of energy! I was just thinking that the guys that have their drives planted really deep could be wasting the same energy andnot know it!

BUIZILLA
01-25-2009, 07:55 AM
I have no experience with weight balancing these boats, I just run them across a scale and subtract the trailer weight, that does it for me... :pimp:

I do find the 90# variance interesting, if this is a Minx mine was heavy on the right side too, the battery was in the middle and I never did understand that...

I know my Critter and fuzzy's on the trailer weigh over 5000#, I think his was about 100#'s heavier at 5,200# on trailer, he may have his weight sheet somewhere... the Critter's seem about 600-700#'s heavier than a normal 22 and I swear I don't know where it is, the '92 I sold fuzzy was about the same weight as our Critter's however, that was a Chris Craft tank of a boat, best and strongest built 22 i've seen yet...

SilverBack
01-25-2009, 07:59 AM
Here ya go guys,

I used three scales and three floor jacks.
I came up with the long cg being 63.04 inches forward of the transom. With a 20 ft. boat that gives you 26.26% with a level keel and 22 gal of fuel.

Jeff




Jeff

Had you already planned on checking the balance on your boat? Does it have any traits that you are trying to correct? I guess it will be a while before you can do any testing up there! Great info!

SilverBack
01-25-2009, 08:11 AM
I have no experience with weight balancing these boats, I just run them across a scale and subtract the trailer weight, that does it for me... :pimp:

I do find the 90# variance interesting, if this is a Minx mine was heavy on the right side too, the battery was in the middle and I never did understand that...

I know my Critter and fuzzy's on the trailer weigh over 5000#, I think his was about 100#'s heavier at 5,200# on trailer, he may have his weight sheet somewhere... the Critter's seem about 600-700#'s heavier than a normal 22 and I swear I don't know where it is, the '92 I sold fuzzy was about the same weight as our Critter's however, that was a Chris Craft tank of a boat, best and strongest built 22 i've seen yet...


Do you drive the Minx from the right or left? I am also hearing that most people that are weighing their stock boats are coming up with 26 - 27%. The experts that I have talked to say 24 - 25% is where you want to be. It seems that the factory engineers cheat in favor of ride and not letting you get your bow too high. Rick even told me that on boats like mine and in the kind of water that I run in that 20% may be best!!

CHACHI
01-25-2009, 09:08 AM
A Minx is a right hand steering.

Ken

BigGrizzly
01-25-2009, 09:28 AM
Let me answer a few questions First Keith as for balancing in the 25 with a pad bottom, First your boat never ran worth a darn for 56 pages until this week. Second I have done the balancing. I worked for Honda Marine setting up boats for tests. I also worked with Ray Brazser one of the foremost Bass boat set up guys in the country bar none. We set up the boat different for what the article is all about. What I have found is Bass boats are real touchy, live wells gear etc. Every boat in our test fleet is so close in stock form using the weight of the recommended brand X engine. I am talking Alleson, Rapid craft, Triton, Ranger, MaKo, Kenner Carolina skiff, Intrepid etc. Ray explained to me that the biggest problem he runs into at meets is the driver, engine setbacks, hights and live wells. You set up and fine tune, a race car, boat, Motor cycle handling characteristics for the driver not the book. Some of the best set up units can handle like crap. Now as for weight Our 1966 16 with the H&M 289 from the factory with maybe 6 gal of fuel weighed 2775 pounds on a Toledo scale back in 1967. BTW I have not balanced any of my Donzi either. I too found there was no need. I change my weight bias every day, with passengers, fuel and spares. So for me even if I do have the equipment at my disposal it is not a high priority on my list. Of course I do all my own work and have not run out of tweaks to play with including Prop testing, which I to a ton of. I am a lucky one. I have my dream house on the lake and boat on the lift. Life is good at this point, I don't even have walk the 200 feet to the dock I drive a Golf cart. Which reminds me I need to go into my heated and air conditioned Shop/boat Garage and tidy up some stuff and get ready for Cumberland.

SilverBack
01-25-2009, 09:46 AM
Let me answer a few questions First Keith as for balancing in the 25 with a pad bottom, First your boat never ran worth a darn for 56 pages until this week. Second I have done the balancing. I worked for Honda Marine setting up boats for tests. I also worked with Ray Brazser one of the foremost Bass boat set up guys in the country bar none. We set up the boat different for what the article is all about. What I have found is Bass boats are real touchy, live wells gear etc. Every boat in our test fleet is so close in stock form using the weight of the recommended brand X engine. I am talking Alleson, Rapid craft, Triton, Ranger, MaKo, Kenner Carolina skiff, Intrepid etc. Ray explained to me that the biggest problem he runs into at meets is the driver, engine setbacks, hights and live wells. You set up and fine tune, a race car, boat, Motor cycle handling characteristics for the driver not the book. Some of the best set up units can handle like crap. Now as for weight Our 1966 16 with the H&M 289 from the factory with maybe 6 gal of fuel weighed 2775 pounds on a Toledo scale back in 1967. BTW I have not balanced any of my Donzi either. I too found there was no need. I change my weight bias every day, with passengers, fuel and spares. So for me even if I do have the equipment at my disposal it is not a high priority on my list. Of course I do all my own work and have not run out of tweaks to play with including Prop testing, which I to a ton of. I am a lucky one. I have my dream house on the lake and boat on the lift. Life is good at this point, I don't even have walk the 200 feet to the dock I drive a Golf cart. Which reminds me I need to go into my heated and air conditioned Shop/boat Garage and tidy up some stuff and get ready for Cumberland.


Randy..I don't know what questions that you thought that you were answering but ...... I did not hear anything that helped me in any way. I don't really care what you did at Honda....I messed around with those Turbo Props that you should be getting back any day now for way too long. If you want to talk about mantle pieces....there you go...but they don't even look that good. I would have been running a lot faster a lot sooner if I would have gotten hooked up with Brett earlier. I have learned something in the last year...the people that know what they are doing are the ones out in the forefront the ones doing the work for the big guys not the DWM's and the mom and pop selling out of their heated garage. I bought a prop from you and I was going to by a 5 blade just because you are a nice guy. I am sorry that your feelings are hurt and I am sorry that your props would not run on my boat but that is just how it turned out. It was not some conspiracy against you. I have not said one bad word about you on this site and you want to try say that my boat ran like crap for 56 pages. Well guess what ...that thing runs like a beast now and it will do nothing but get better and better from here. You can't get me down..I am on cloud 9 right now. You would be too if your boat could run over a 100 and you had all the troubles that I have had. People telling you that you are doing things wrong all the time. By the way...My wife is fine ..yes she is a very good woman to put up with me and she is a very attractive lady and all the other crap that you ask me every time that I talked to you....frankly that gets kind of old after a while .....Please don't feel obligated to HELP me any longer....I think that I have it covered without hearing about Honda and Garry and your glory days!!!!

SilverBack
01-25-2009, 10:12 AM
OK, so some questions about the mythical balance point you are trying to find:

Full Fuel?

Half Fuel?

1/4 fuel?

With driver?

With passenger?

Will it be the same passenger EVERY time the boat is run?

Is driver on a diet, or binging?

Is the passenger on a diet, or binging?

If only a driver, will you verify it in surfer trunks AND a speedo?

If both, will you also take into account the passengers attire?

Will the passengers carry on bag be weighed every time it is brought onboard, and anything that causes it to exceed the official "balance" weight be tossed in the trash?

Are you going to check it with Coca cola AND diet Coca coke? (re: # 7 + 8)

Beer, or light beer?

If beer, Heineken certainly weighs less the Guinness, so will a law (as we know the captains word ALWAYS is ) be passed as to which type is allowed onboard?

If light beer, will the addition of the lime to Bud Light change the coefficient of gravity enough in the boat that you will have to have Corona's with lime on the opposite side of the boat?

What is the ratio of Corona's with lime vs BLL?

If the driver orders a pizza, should he skip the anchovies to avoid the salt in them because it can cause bloating?

Once the bass under the seat finishes rotting, will you have to rebalance the boat?

Will the ice carried in the ice chest be weighed on a certified scale each and every time before it is loaded on the boat to verify you are not changing anything?

If you let said ice chest drain during the day, will you have to move it as the ice melts?


I know that you are goofing around but....I don't think that anybody is talking about getting that precise. I have talked to people that put a ballast tank in the nose and a couple on both sides at the transom though.

I am just saying that if you start with the LCG at 27 or 28 percent and then you add 5 people and gear and fill the cabin up with stuff....where is the LCG then????

I don't think that I am ever going to try and go that fast with a bunch of people and gear anyway. So ...it would be important for me that it is balanced pretty close to where it needs to be with just me or me ans one other person in the boat. I have also talked to people that relocate the fuel tank..or tanks so that when you fill them or empty them it does not effect your LCG.

BigGrizzly
01-25-2009, 10:20 AM
Where did that come from. That was not a slam at you. As for my glory days, I will let that slide. I am sure My props didn't look as good as the ones from Brett. Mine are off the shelf, not hand made polished expensive units. As everybody on this board knows I an not a supporter of labbeding. I PERSONALLY think the money is not worth it. I have stated it many many times. I definitely did not want you to buy a prop from me just to make me happy. I was just giving information on what I have found to others. I am glad your on cloud 9. Well now As for helping you, at this point I could care less it is the others that may be mislead by your posts that I care about. I walk the walk and talk the talk. I DO my own work. I don't read about it.
OK YOU have gotten your wish. I am Off this THREAD.

SilverBack
01-25-2009, 10:36 AM
Where did that come from. That was not a slam at you. As for my glory days, I will let that slide. I am sure My props didn't look as good as the ones from Brett. Mine are off the shelf, not hand made polished expensive units. As everybody on this board knows I an not a supporter of labbeding. I PERSONALLY think the money is not worth it. I have stated it many many times. I definitely did not want you to buy a prop from me just to make me happy. I was just giving information on what I have found to others. I am glad your on cloud 9. Well now As for helping you, at this point I could care less it is the others that may be mislead by your posts that I care about. I walk the walk and talk the talk. I DO my own work. I don't read about it.
OK YOU have gotten your wish. I am Off this THREAD.

How did I mislead anyone with my post? What did I say that would steer someone wrong? What did you say that corrected any thing that I said to mislead these people? I would love to know!


BTW..you may have not noticed ...I know that you get stuck in the past sometimes...I am walking and talking now!!!! I guess you can't use that line on me anymore!! My boat ran the way that I thought it would and the way that you said it couldn't...I guess that it is dangerous to get to thinking that we know everything!!

SilverBack
01-25-2009, 10:52 AM
I was talking to Grizz and meant it for him to see. He saw it and did not quote it so I thought that I would not get drug into another hijack of this thread.....but that is ok...


I did not say anything that was wrong there so put it back up. I just don't appreciate starting a thread to talk about something that I am interested in just to get side tracked or slammed. The post on the tab thing and the post here had nothing to do with the subject at hand. If you think that you don't need to balance a boat that is way out of balance..keep on surfing or state your belief that it does not matter. There is no need for all the other crap and hijacking other peoples thread. If people want to talk about Safety and Honda or Garry Grimes..let them go start there own thread.


BTW...Todd and I have been able to co-exist with no trouble at all since we got over ourselves. He has actually made some really good points in some of the threads that I have been watching!

Ed Donnelly
01-25-2009, 12:16 PM
Silverback; You really can be a horses ass sometimes.. You highjack your own threads all the time.. I played with pads and steps while you were still ****ting in your diapers.but I am an old fart like Randy.. I guess G.C. knows **** about repairing because he is an old fart too.. There ( by the way it is their not there) I have put words in your fat mouth...

Randy trys to help you out and you disrespect him..

Go buy a really big Fountain so you can play on O.S.O.:mad:...Ed

SilverBack
01-25-2009, 12:35 PM
Silverback; You really can be a horses ass sometimes.. You highjack your own threads all the time.. I played with pads and steps while you were still ****ting in your diapers.but I am an old fart like Randy.. I guess G.C. knows **** about repairing because he is an old fart too.. There ( by the way it is their not there) I have put words in your fat mouth...

Randy trys to help you out and you disrespect him..

Go buy a really big Fountain so you can play on O.S.O.:mad:...Ed


I would but I hate fountains...I would be more the Skater or Eliminator kind of a guy. I knew that I was going to draw some heat on this but the 56 pages of running like crap and reading and not doing and the not doing my own work stuff is just getting a little old. I think that Randy is a very nice guy and he has tried to be very helpful to me. He did wonders for my Mother's deck boat with his props and I am not trying to attack older people. 56 pages of running like crap was just a little to much for me to keep taking without saying something. We have pm'ed back and forth and I know that he feels like it made his props look bad because they did not run well on my boat. I apologize to all of Randy's friends that think that I have disrespected him. I too think that he is a nice guy...he just is not happy with me right now and it is showing through in his post a little. Does he know more about boats than me...it is not even close...has he done more with boats than me..yes ..not close again.....is he a better resource for those that need help than I...not close again......Do I like for him to say that my boat runs like crap and need to be put in my place. I don't think so. If he wants to correct something that I have said that has mislead someone that would be great. I would love to know what it is..I know that I did not do it on purpose. Anyway....you can search through every post that I have ever made on any website and not find one time that I have ever said anything bad about him until the last few post. In those same post you will find me praising him and his props time and again. He never told me that my boat was crap when he was selling me props though.


Grizz says that he is off this thread and I would love to get on with things but I will find out from the fountain guys on OSO I guess!!:wink:


BTW..I am from Mississippi and I am illiterate so be happy when I spell a word right and do not hate me for the ones that I spell wrong!!:yes:

boxy
01-25-2009, 12:41 PM
Silverback; You really can be a horses ass sometimes.. You highjack your own threads all the time.. I played with pads and steps while you were still ****ting in your diapers.but I am an old fart like Randy.. I guess G.C. knows **** about repairing because he is an old fart too.. There ( by the way it is their not there) I have put words in your fat mouth...
Randy trys to help you out and you disrespect him..
Go buy a really big Fountain so you can play on O.S.O.:mad:...Ed
Ed, OSO is no place for him. If he posted the nonsense over there he's posted here, they would eat him up.

Keith, respect is earned not given. Hammering away at a respected member of the board gets you no where.
On an unrelated note, what type of refund policy does Randy offer on all of the props that you bought for testing ???

Donziweasel
01-25-2009, 01:02 PM
He would be banned in a second or ridicouled till he would cry on OSO.

Grizz is a damn good freind and an asset to this chat board. He sells quality props at damn near cost. I have tried many of them and still have one I have not paid for yet. He remembers my mom's heart attack 2 years ago and ALWAYS asks about her. What you consider "glory days" are what helped boating evolve to what it is now. I consider this amazing history. I speak with Randy probably once a week and he is as fine a member on here as anyone, and no one would say that about me.

Kieth, you have two ears and one mouth, that should tell you something.

You need your own chat board. I think Wes is looking to get rid of performanceboat.us. Look into it.

SilverBack
01-25-2009, 01:08 PM
I apologize to Randy..I am sorry for my comments. I can get off on the wrong foot sometimes and I have messed up in this case for sure. I guess my boat really did run like crap for 56 pages. I should not have said that ..I am sorry!!! Grizz you have earned the right to say whatever you want ..whenever you want and you are a senior statesman on this website.

SilverBack
01-25-2009, 01:13 PM
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-q/202007-balancing-boat-2.html#post2785623

It is funny how the same exact question can get different results!

boxy
01-25-2009, 01:25 PM
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-q/202007-balancing-boat-2.html#post2785623

It is funny how the same exact question can get different results!

I just read your thread, and the only guys that seem to have different answers than you got here are relating their experiences in raceboats.

Totally different animal than a full cabin 25 foot V hull.

SilverBack
01-25-2009, 01:40 PM
I guess on the days that I want to open it up that it is kind of like a "want to be" Race boat. I am sure that the same physics apply to a regular ZX and a race boat.

HallJ
01-25-2009, 01:49 PM
2993 seems low to me... especially if it has fuel in it... is that a small block Alpha boat?


That's right guys sbc alpha. I haven't done it since the Arneson conversion I will get to it this summer.

HallJ
01-25-2009, 01:54 PM
Jeff

Had you already planned on checking the balance on your boat? Does it have any traits that you are trying to correct? I guess it will be a while before you can do any testing up there! Great info!

I scaled it to check the long cg before I converted to the Arneson.
The idea being that I would compare after the swap.

The left right numbers may not be correct. I may not have had it perfectly level left,right. I was focusing on the longitudinal distribution.

Jeff

SilverBack
01-25-2009, 06:44 PM
Howard....your inbox is full!!!

Boatless
01-26-2009, 10:00 AM
I honestly think SB is correct here.

He asked a question, some tried to help but there is a distinct few that continuously try to tear down his efforts by dismissing them as unworthy of time spent.

I must remind you all. This is his time, his boat and his attempt at his ?? and for those to say they know it all is getting old as SB pointed out.

I must ask one question. What is it going to hurt to know the answer to the question he asked? Why be abrasive to his attempts? We all could possible learn something and as some that are long in their days/years need to know, an old dog can learn a few new tricks every now and then.

I see that SB says he has some handling problems and he wants, probably nothing more than for his own and those that boat with him, SAFTEY for himself. If the boat was doing everything perfect then he would not be trying to learn and understand why it is not doing what it is doing. This is not that difficult folks.

Tim Morris
01-26-2009, 01:02 PM
Depending on fuel load, passengers, extra gear, weather conditions etc.........I just move the beer cooler around to the right spot.............:wink:


Understood; but waddaya do when you're on the way back?

DonziJon
01-26-2009, 01:42 PM
Understood; but waddaya do when you're on the way back?

We always Pee in the emptys.... AND it Saves The Environment. Screw cap bottles work best. Cans can be risky. :yes: John

RedDog
01-26-2009, 01:58 PM
We always Pee in the emptys.... AND it Saves The Environment. Screw cap bottles work best. Cans can be risky. :yes: John

This reminds me of a horrible driving experience from many years back. I won't go into details. Lets just say it involved more "out go" than "in go":shocking:

The Hedgehog
01-26-2009, 06:06 PM
Randy..I don't know what questions that you thought that you were answering but ...... I did not hear anything that helped me in any way. I don't really care what you did at Honda....I messed around with those Turbo Props that you should be getting back any day now for way too long. If you want to talk about mantle pieces....there you go...but they don't even look that good. I would have been running a lot faster a lot sooner if I would have gotten hooked up with Brett earlier. I have learned something in the last year...the people that know what they are doing are the ones out in the forefront the ones doing the work for the big guys not the DWM's and the mom and pop selling out of their heated garage. I bought a prop from you and I was going to by a 5 blade just because you are a nice guy. I am sorry that your feelings are hurt and I am sorry that your props would not run on my boat but that is just how it turned out. It was not some conspiracy against you. I have not said one bad word about you on this site and you want to try say that my boat ran like crap for 56 pages. Well guess what ...that thing runs like a beast now and it will do nothing but get better and better from here. You can't get me down..I am on cloud 9 right now. You would be too if your boat could run over a 100 and you had all the troubles that I have had. People telling you that you are doing things wrong all the time. By the way...My wife is fine ..yes she is a very good woman to put up with me and she is a very attractive lady and all the other crap that you ask me every time that I talked to you....frankly that gets kind of old after a while .....Please don't feel obligated to HELP me any longer....I think that I have it covered without hearing about Honda and Garry and your glory days!!!!

Dang slick. That is kind of a Fountain ish comment if I don't say so myself.

I am glad that you hooked up with Brett for the stock Maximus. That is sheer majic there. Props are hit and miss. Randy here has ALWAYs said that and in the end only wished the best for you. I have heard that both on and off the board. FROM HIM!

Secondly, your genius Brett there does not exactly bat 1,000 either. I know a number of people that have wasted some bucks on him. Throttle Up does not bat 1,000 for that matter. Hell, I got a beautiful labbed 26 Bravo from Throttle up that won't outrun a M plus on a 27ZX. Does that mean its a bad prop? No, just not what I needed and I am not crying about it. I am sure it will make a fine prop for someone. Just not me. I did not jump up and run them down.

Like Boxy said, respect is earned. One way to do that is treat people with respect. You can do that even if you disagree with them.

HOWARD O
01-26-2009, 06:49 PM
Ed, OSO is no place for him. If he posted the nonsense over there he's posted here, they would eat him up.
Keith, respect is earned not given. Hammering away at a respected member of the board gets you no where.
On an unrelated note, what type of refund policy does Randy offer on all of the props that you bought for testing ???

Looks like the guy has already been "eaten up" pretty good right here on this thread. I see you're doing your level best to take a shot and stand up for a member of your gang! Oh my gosh, he didn't tell someone like me off or one of the other "lowly" members, he said something nasty to GRIZZ! Me? I like to stand up for the little guy whose only real fault just seems to be a bit of overzealousness. So freakin' what?

How do people earn respect on this board, by being completely tactless like Grizz and/or brown nosing for all of your buddies? Some of you need a lesson in humility, apparently some of you "elder" folks have no need for that though. What a load of egomaniacs........"earn respect" or what? Your questions won't be answered, you'll be on someone's ignore list (that really hurt me by the way) or you'll be SHUNNED by the masters! Worse yet, you might be banned! This website just cracks me up..........

SilverBack
01-26-2009, 08:00 PM
He would be banned in a second or ridicouled till he would cry on OSO.



John it may take more to make me cry than you think! I have no idea where you came up with that crap!!! You do make me laugh sometimes though! I know that the weather in the hole may have not been just right when you wrote that though! I forgive you!

SilverBack
01-26-2009, 08:48 PM
Dang slick. That is kind of a Fountain ish comment if I don't say so myself.

I am glad that you hooked up with Brett for the stock Maximus. That is sheer magic there. Props are hit and miss. Randy here has ALWAYs said that and in the end only wished the best for you. I have heard that both on and off the board. FROM HIM!

Secondly, your genius Brett there does not exactly bat 1,000 either. I know a number of people that have wasted some bucks on him. Throttle Up does not bat 1,000 for that matter. Hell, I got a beautiful labbed 26 Bravo from Throttle up that won't outrun a M plus on a 27ZX. Does that mean its a bad prop? No, just not what I needed and I am not crying about it. I am sure it will make a fine prop for someone. Just not me. I did not jump up and run them down.

Like Boxy said, respect is earned. One way to do that is treat people with respect. You can do that even if you disagree with them.

So..the Hedge Hog wants in on this action????? Ok..Bling it on suckers!!!:wink: Did I say that a stock Maximus was the only prop that I got from Brett?? No..A stock prop would not bring to much magic to the table would it?? I know that you guys love Grizz and you are just taking up for him. I have said that those Turbo props did not work good on my boat. One of them that did not work at all on my boat went 94 on Tex's boat. If you guys want to cry because I dare say that one of Grizz's props did not work ...go ahead and cry....If you guys want to set around and act like I am wrong for taking up for myself then go ahead. Did Throttle up or Brett go on a thread that you started and point out that your boat ran like crap for the last year? I don't think so. I guess that you guys have your blinders on. I said..if you care to read it that Grizz sold me a prop that worked great on the deck boat....Grizz was wanting to help me...that is true..if I did things his way with his props and did not make any of my own decisions and followed his prescription to the letter. Then he gets mad when I go a different way and comes on threads that are not specifically about my boat and talks about how bad my boat had been and how he had worked on bass boats and he did not even give any good information about bass boats. How many times has he told me that he has done it and not just read about it. Well he had to do it for the first time at some point. I am paying for this..why can't I collect information and make my own decisions??? I am sure that you are just taking up for your friend but if you can remember it was me not Grizz that defended you and put his nads on the line on this website when you and Dr. Dan had your dust up. I don't know why you felt like getting in the middle of this but that is ok. I am a big boy..I can handle it......BTW....I am NOT trying to bring Mark Boos into this and I am sure that he would want nothing to do with it but...he is the one that made the call on the Turbos...he is the one that was driving the boat....I know that different props run different on different setups but those props would not work on my boat....You saw the pictures of my boat..do you think my boat ran better now or before? You run a Bravo one prop on your boat..Why don't you run one of Grizz's props??? They will run good on your boat. It was not me on the other site that kept saying that Turbos are JUNK over and over!! It was just about everyone else. BTW...Todd and Dr Dan and Grizz are all really good friends.... When I stuck my ass on the line defending you is when things started to go down hill between me and Grizz....


BTW...no hard feelings...I hope that you and Tex are having a great time in Vegas!!!:pimp:

BUIZILLA
01-26-2009, 08:56 PM
HH is stuck at Red Rooster.. :kingme:

SilverBack
01-26-2009, 09:08 PM
HH is stuck at Red Rooster.. :kingme:

I guess that if you are going to get stuck...that is as good of a place as any if it is what I think it is........:yes:


It seems like he should be way too happy to be getting in my cool aid right now.....:pimp:

The way that these guys are acting you would think that I told about me finding out that Chris somebody or other is the one that bought GEOO's boat!! Now that is breaking news that is worthy of tearing you away from the Red Rooster!!!:pimp:

Lenny
01-26-2009, 09:11 PM
By the way, I have my 4 night "blow-out" in Vegas booked for April 3 - 6 . A yearly thing for us whether we need it or not... :D :kingme:

BUIZILLA
01-26-2009, 09:11 PM
The way that these guys are acting you would think that I told about me finding out that Chris somebody or other is the one that bought GEOO's boat!! uhhh, no..

SilverBack
01-26-2009, 09:14 PM
I was being hypothetical..... Just for instance..if someone reported information like that might be worth coming out of the Red Rooster to post on a thread.... I am stating a fact...

The Hedgehog
01-26-2009, 11:12 PM
HH is stuck at Red Rooster.. :kingme:


Hedge is back from LV and yes, a bunch more went down the hatch than cool aid:yes:

Lots of paranormal activity.

Ed Donnelly
01-27-2009, 12:51 AM
SilverBack; You just don't get it, do you?? I got belligerent with you for everything you said other than the prop business.. I will be trying his props this spring, and, if they don't work I will post it. He has always said test,test,test.. The offensive part was his personal conversations being dragged throught the mud. You know I have stood up for you in the past when I felt you were right..

P.S. The illiterate statement was a little temerity of you, dissing an entire state.............Ed

The Hedgehog
01-27-2009, 06:51 AM
So..the Hedge Hog wants in on this action????? Ok..Bling it on suckers!!!:wink: Did I say that a stock Maximus was the only prop that I got from Brett?? No..A stock prop would not bring to much magic to the table would it?? I know that you guys love Grizz and you are just taking up for him. I have said that those Turbo props did not work good on my boat. One of them that did not work at all on my boat went 94 on Tex's boat. If you guys want to cry because I dare say that one of Grizz's props did not work ...go ahead and cry....If you guys want to set around and act like I am wrong for taking up for myself then go ahead. Did Throttle up or Brett go on a thread that you started and point out that your boat ran like crap for the last year? I don't think so. I guess that you guys have your blinders on. I said..if you care to read it that Grizz sold me a prop that worked great on the deck boat....Grizz was wanting to help me...that is true..if I did things his way with his props and did not make any of my own decisions and followed his prescription to the letter. Then he gets mad when I go a different way and comes on threads that are not specifically about my boat and talks about how bad my boat had been and how he had worked on bass boats and he did not even give any good information about bass boats. How many times has he told me that he has done it and not just read about it. Well he had to do it for the first time at some point. I am paying for this..why can't I collect information and make my own decisions??? I am sure that you are just taking up for your friend but if you can remember it was me not Grizz that defended you and put his nads on the line on this website when you and Dr. Dan had your dust up. I don't know why you felt like getting in the middle of this but that is ok. I am a big boy..I can handle it......BTW....I am NOT trying to bring Mark Boos into this and I am sure that he would want nothing to do with it but...he is the one that made the call on the Turbos...he is the one that was driving the boat....I know that different props run different on different setups but those props would not work on my boat....You saw the pictures of my boat..do you think my boat ran better now or before? You run a Bravo one prop on your boat..Why don't you run one of Grizz's props??? They will run good on your boat. It was not me on the other site that kept saying that Turbos are JUNK over and over!! It was just about everyone else. BTW...Todd and Dr Dan and Grizz are all really good friends.... When I stuck my ass on the line defending you is when things started to go down hill between me and Grizz....


BTW...no hard feelings...I hope that you and Tex are having a great time in Vegas!!!:pimp:

No, I am not going against you or launching an attack on you. Just making a comment on keeping some of the personal stuff out of your statements. I have talked to you on numerous occasions and think you are a nicer guy than that.

There is no mysterious clique that is out there against you, me or anyone else. You made a good point in saying that a bunch of these guys have been friends for a long time. That's a true statement and that's basically what it is. I do find it about as funny as you do about how defensive some get when you throw out the clique word. It almost makes them look guilty of having some kind of conspiracy. The reality is that a bunch of the folks on the site have known each other for many years and are friends. Friends tend to look out for each other and should not apologize for that.

Now I have always maintained that Grizz can ba a little blunt and there is a difference between blunt and tactless. All he did was point out the obvious and no, that was probably not needed. I also meant it when I said that he wishes the best for you. At the same time, I don't think that Brett has done anything magical for you by hooking you up with a maximus to try. Now if he works one over for you and gives you 5 mph over stock...well that would be pretty cool. I am also coming from the heart when I said Brett does not bat 1,000 either.

I do run a Bravo on my boat. And guess what? I bought it from Brett and he gave me a good price and good service. I have no problem with that. I don't think it is the best but knew it would get me on the water. I just wanted to get on the water and get to know my boat at speed before I started really dialing it in. I was not in a hurry to set any sort of record or make a point. I knew the prop would basically get me to that point. I will try one of Randy's props this spring. Tex has one getting cut now and I will use that for a baseline. Brian told me it had superior handling and speed. No, I will not go to a 5 blade. I may try one for grins but I don't want to start blowing drives any faster than necessary.

Now the guy on the other site, well I did not see him coming back for more after I dealt out spanking #1:pimp:

Now as far as the activities in Vegas? There is a good reason that I don't live in that town.:shocking:

SilverBack
01-27-2009, 06:53 AM
SilverBack; You just don't get it, do you?? I got belligerent with you for everything you said other than the prop business.. I will be trying his props this spring, and, if they don't work I will post it. He has always said test,test,test.. The offensive part was his personal conversations being dragged throught the mud. You know I have stood up for you in the past when I felt you were right..

P.S. The illiterate statement was a little temerity of you, dissing an entire state.............Ed

I know Ed...I do not blame you for sticking up for Randy...I know what I said was ....too much...I am sorry for getting into the personal stuff.....the prop working or not working is in reference to Grizz taking his little shots..nothing over the top like me...but there have been several times that he has taken little shots every since the props did not work out....I tested ....and it looks like another prop is going to work out ..or has worked out....I guess I am making the link between his getting mad...taking little shots at me...then me blowing up and saying too much in retaliation........


Ed...Please remember that I AM from Mississippi but I do have a Webster's dictionary......Thanks for expanding my vocabulary though....I had never heard of temerity!!!!:wink:

BUIZILLA
01-27-2009, 06:58 AM
hard to believe it's taken 5 pages, and well over several million words to get the point across about one prop... :confused: :nilly:

PS - I know very little about anything nautical, but if it took a 5 or 6 blade to get you going, the drive is too high...

SilverBack
01-27-2009, 07:12 AM
Other than the weight of the prop, I don't understand why a prop was even brought up in this thread. My boat specifically has nothing to do with this thread. The question was about ballasting and balancing boats in general.

roadtrip se
01-28-2009, 02:25 PM
with trying to make a living, so I hadn't plowed through this but decided to take a break and here we are...

I found my name mentioned here a couple of times and I haven't even posted on this thread, so I might as well get in the mix.

I do find it interesting that there are a few here that continue to interpret friendship and standing up for your friends, as some sort of conspiracy, arrogance, and the whole clique thingy. Obviously, friendship means something to me and many folks here, and I simply refuse to apologize for it.
For those of you who can't understand this principle, I really don't have much to offer you, other than quit whining about it as you look ignorant and it is getting repetitive and it is certainly negative.

Also, Poodle makes fun of not posting after 8:00 or whenever your cocktail hour starts at your house. I take this to mean, think a little before just laying it out there. Friendship builds respect and respect builds friendship. I treat my ability to participate here as a benefit, not a right. It's no different than going to someone elses's house and taking my shoes off before I walk on their carpets. While I have been know to instigate on more than one occasion in an attempt at humor, I never try to grind an agenda or get even or just piss someone off.

I respect the people here too much to do that. I am in their house.

Weedhopper, out...

Lenny
01-28-2009, 04:59 PM
Also, Poodle makes fun of not posting after 8:00 or whenever your cocktail hour starts at your house. ( When I wake up :D )


It's no different than going to someone elses's house and taking my shoes off before I walk on their carpets. ( Throwing beer cans all over your property is still OK isn't it Todd ? :D )...

CJmike
01-28-2009, 05:54 PM
Here I though this was all about staying upright on your boat after too many tequila's. Then I read it all and I had to go get some tequila.

I think you should balance your boat with nobody in it. Then as you add people you need to move stuff around. How you do it I got no idea. But it would make sense you would like things to be evenly weighted around the boat. After all the owners your boat has most likely seen, the changes that have been made, I can see where this would make sense.

Thats it thats all I got to add.

HOWARD O
01-28-2009, 06:11 PM
with trying to make a living, so I hadn't plowed through this but decided to take a break and here we are...
I found my name mentioned here a couple of times and I haven't even posted on this thread, so I might as well get in the mix.
I do find it interesting that there are a few here that continue to interpret friendship and standing up for your friends, as some sort of conspiracy, arrogance, and the whole clique thingy. Obviously, friendship means something to me and many folks here, and I simply refuse to apologize for it.
For those of you who can't understand this principle, I really don't have much to offer you, other than quit whining about it as you look ignorant and it is getting repetitive and it is certainly negative.
Also, Poodle makes fun of not posting after 8:00 or whenever your cocktail hour starts at your house. I take this to mean, think a little before just laying it out there. Friendship builds respect and respect builds friendship. I treat my ability to participate here as a benefit, not a right. It's no different than going to someone elses's house and taking my shoes off before I walk on their carpets. While I have been know to instigate on more than one occasion in an attempt at humor, I never try to grind an agenda or get even or just piss someone off.
I respect the people here too much to do that. I am in their house.
Weedhopper, out...


First of all, I don't know Silverback any more than I know BigGrizzly. But reading this thread and reading what BigGrizzly said to Silverback regarding how many pages "his boat was crap" was fightin' words, not just disrespect. Silverback had all rights to get silver-tongued with him and he did so. Bravo for him! They're both big boys and I would assume, will handle it like mature adults and work it out. But no, the posse comes in and repeatedly slams Silverback for his retort, how DARE he say something nasty to Grizz, whether he was in the right or not? Even after he apologized for standing up for himself, he continued to get slammed more!
Now you can go look back and investigate this thread like I have. Please quote me one instance where anybody denounced BigGrizzly's way over the top comment. Grizz sure didn't, he just walked out the door again.....no apology, no nothing. Even if Silverback were in the wrong, he had had enough as far as I can see.
So, after all of that, you fly in with your "civility" comments that are obviously directed at me. Keep in mind, when I wrote my post, I never once mentioned YOU nor had YOU ever entered my mind once. You try and give me a lesson in friendship, you called me ignorant and you called me repetitive. You even had the gall to call me negative, as if I had singled you out personally in my post or something.
Well, if ganging up on folks because they said something negative to a FRIEND of YOURS, even when it WAS well warranted is your idea of great friendships, then you can have it buddy. If Grizz were my close friend, I would've exercised just a modicum, just an OUNCE of objectivity in dealing with it. Even beyond that, Silverback was man enough to apologize for standing up himself! HE is the standup guy here, NOT Grizz or any of you. Too bad you can't see that with your blind friendships.
So, in light of all that, I stand by what I said and if it's getting repetitious to you, GOOD! By the way, for every one of you that takes it personally (for whatever reason?), I generally get 5 pm's from people that don't want to come out of the closet and say so themselves. I'll take that ratio. Just so you know that I'm not a "rogue" negative NUTJOB with an axe to grind with all of you. I'm actually a very easy going, nice guy! :yes:

roadtrip se
01-28-2009, 09:54 PM
( When I wake up :D )

Oh boy...


( Throwing beer cans all over your property is still OK isn't it Todd ? :D )...

Just remember that I WILL return the favor one day... and in the mean time, have at it.

Howard, you need to get more exercise, maybe relieve a little stress, perhaps try something stronger than Lenny is drinking.... and YES, it IS getting very repetitive, but my message was NOT aimed at you alone, so please don't humor yourself with the idea that it was. As for the PM popularity and justification contest, skip the PMs, I am getting phone calls about this crap or it would have never crossed my radar, so please take a pill and try a little restraint if it is possible. I look forward to seeing the "nice guy" you claim to be.

smokediver
01-29-2009, 06:55 AM
not to stir the pot ... but i have a friend here that is running a 547 blower motor in a 27 zx . xr upper imco 1 inch shorty .. and he is turning a maximus prop .. it holds way better out of the hole and his boat is real damn fast !

Ed Donnelly
01-29-2009, 07:01 AM
SilverBack; I apologize for hijacking your thread,but,

HOWARD O;; You have really got me pegged
I am an ELDER
I am part of a POSSE
I am in a GANG
I am an EGOMANIAC

Well; You got 1 right , just turned 64 yesterday

Posse, gang,, In the nearly 9 yrs I have been a member, I have met ONE
other member that is American, and ONE member who is Canadian..

Send me a pardon so I can get out of these nasty gangs,,,,,,
I'd reply more but I have to go change my Depends............Teddy The Terrible

Carl C
01-29-2009, 07:13 AM
In the nearly 9 yrs I have been a member, I have met ONE
other member that is American Well get your butt down to the border next summer and meet one more. Hell, I'll even pick you up in Canada. Meet me on Lake St. Clair at the mouth of the Thames River. If you wade out to the boat and I never touch land in Canada would that be legal? I mean with the Blackhawk choppers added to the security mix this year and all................no more anchoring and sneaking an illegal swim in Canada...................:nilly:

The Hedgehog
01-29-2009, 07:44 AM
not to stir the pot ... but i have a friend here that is running a 547 blower motor in a 27 zx . xr upper imco 1 inch shorty .. and he is turning a maximus prop .. it holds way better out of the hole and his boat is real damn fast !

How fast? Will it do 93? If it is the boat I am thinking about, it won't. I don't recall it being close but maybe he has posted some better numbers. But I do know one that will and it only has a 502 ci blown motor. The 93 mph boat did it with a 3 blade but that is not what he runs. He is going with a 30" Fusion and still gets in the 90's. As far as getting out of the hole fast? We shall see how that works out for him in the long run with that 5 blade.

I have no doubt that a maximus would be great out of the hole on my little 26ZX. Heck, it would probably be pretty fast on top. On the other hand I change my own drive oil every 10 hours and get to monitor that pearlescent looking fluid that comes out with a 4 blade. I bet with a 5 blade I would see chunks. I am pretty sure that I am going to a 4 blade Fusion. It gets 3-4 mph better cruise than a Bravo I, had better handling and is probably going to be better on top.

Silverback has a pretty light boat. I think it is a light layup for a 25. I don't remember what it weighs but he will be a lot safer with a 5 blade than a 27ZX.

Hotboat did some documented testing using a 5 blade vs a 4 blade on a big power single cat. They proved that 5 blade and big power = blown drive. That gets proven time and again also.

Oh yeah, sorry Keith, I forgot this was about the whole balance thing. I am off to have one of CJ's drinks. For breakfast! :party:

Tim Morris
01-29-2009, 07:55 AM
I am an ELDER just turned 64 yesterday
I have met ONE other member that is American, and ONE member who is Canadian..
I'd reply more but I have to go change my Depends............


Happy Birthday from that CANADIAN! Sharing is good, pass the Depends.

BigGrizzly
01-29-2009, 08:28 AM
OK, OK ENOUGH is ENOUGH I stayed off this thread to keep from adding Fuel to the fire. Well that did not work. Lets get back on track and stop being the OTHER sites we hate. Lets keep Personalities out of it. This is NOT a political forum. I appreciate the support both positive and negative. What is between Keith and me is just that, between us. If he wants it to be public fine but I will not stoop to that. I am ASKING all my friends and supporters to DROP this and walk away. Words are just that only words. I now that have my props back, the gloves are off. If you have an issue with me email or PM me, Lets not clutter up this great site with this kind of BS

SilverBack
01-29-2009, 09:03 AM
OK, OK ENOUGH is ENOUGH I stayed off this thread to keep from adding Fuel to the fire. Well that did not work. Lets get back on track and stop being the OTHER sites we hate. Lets keep Personalities out of it. This is NOT a political forum. I appreciate the support both positive and negative. What is between Keith and me is just that, between us. If he wants it to be public fine but I will not stoop to that. I am ASKING all my friends and supporters to DROP this and walk away. Words are just that only words. I now that have my props back, the gloves are off. If you have an issue with me email or PM me, Lets not clutter up this great site with this kind of BS


Thanks Randy!!!! I want to apologize to you again for my comments. They were too much and way too personal. I was wrong and I can admit it when I am wrong. I think that there was enough of that to go around for everybody. I agree with you that this is not what we are here for. You ARE a very nice guy and I still believe that. I wish you all the best and you did help me out and we got side tracked somewhere along the way. I hate that happened.


Todd...I love you man...I think that we have more in common than I first realized. I wish you all the best in your future in devours!!!


Howard..and Boatless .....thanks for taking up for me but I think we can all get along and get back to what we love...boating!!

smokediver
01-29-2009, 03:04 PM
[QUOTE=The Hedgehog;491203]How fast? Will it do 93? If it is the boat I am thinking about, it won't. I don't recall it being close but maybe he has posted some better numbers.
I don't think you have ever seen the boat unless you have been to naples ?
Not sure of the top speed but i did see 85 on the gps speedo and there was plenty left ! not a light boat , and always loaded down , lol ... he built the motor pretty conservative , according to him anyway . but that's coming from a guy who has never lost a horsepower war at Daytona bike week so who knows !:kingme:

The Hedgehog
01-29-2009, 04:22 PM
[QUOTE=The Hedgehog;491203]How fast? Will it do 93? If it is the boat I am thinking about, it won't. I don't recall it being close but maybe he has posted some better numbers.
I don't think you have ever seen the boat unless you have been to naples ?
Not sure of the top speed but i did see 85 on the gps speedo and there was plenty left ! not a light boat , and always loaded down , lol ... he built the motor pretty conservative , according to him anyway . but that's coming from a guy who has never lost a horsepower war at Daytona bike week so who knows !:kingme:

Is the boat Green and had a hp 500 in it before?

smokediver
01-29-2009, 04:25 PM
[QUOTE=smokediver;491288]
Is the boat Green and had a hp 500 in it before?
yeah , that's the one ...

The Hedgehog
01-29-2009, 04:29 PM
[QUOTE=The Hedgehog;491306]
yeah , that's the one ...

Cool boat. :cool!:

Last Real Texan
01-29-2009, 04:48 PM
[quote=The Hedgehog;491306]
yeah , that's the one ...
This one....

Tex

smokediver
01-29-2009, 05:16 PM
looks a little different now . he added some yellow zx graphics on the side . the 500 had a bad lifter at the donzi rally and that was yanked and in went the other engine . It really seems to vibrate with the 4 blade when getting on plane but the maximus really smoothed out everything . the bravo that was on there exploded , even the gimbal had to be replaced . he takes it pretty easy on the holeshot as the drive is kinda the weak link in it all . I think it's pretty cool how fast these big boats can run when you throw in extra horsepower !

The Hedgehog
01-29-2009, 05:19 PM
looks a little different now . he added some yellow zx graphics on the side . the 500 had a bad lifter at the donzi rally and that was yanked and in went the other engine . It really seems to vibrate with the 4 blade when getting on plane but the maximus really smoothed out everything . the bravo that was on there exploded , even the gimbal had to be replaced . he takes it pretty easy on the holeshot as the drive is kinda the weak link in it all . I think it's pretty cool how fast these big boats can run when you throw in extra horsepower !

Yes sir! Just takes a little hp to wake it up good.

I would like to see some updated pics. It sounds like the force is strong in that one!

BigGrizzly
01-29-2009, 06:47 PM
Hedge, we need to talk about that article. There are other facts that they did not cover. We did test at Honda because we were having lower unit problems too. One thing I will say is that solid Merc hub stinks and is a big issue. Honda will not warrant any solid hub use. Solas only puts rubber hubs in stainless props. I would go on but my drive failed with a solid hub, it was trouble before I put in the rubber hub but it was too late. Long story. Good story, Tex bough breakfast after it.

The Hedgehog
01-29-2009, 06:52 PM
Hedge, we need to talk about that article. There are other facts that they did not cover. We did test at Honda because we were having lower unit problems too. One thing I will say is that solid Merc hub stinks and is a big issue. Honda will not warrant any solid hub use. Solas only puts rubber hubs in stainless props. I would go on but my drive failed with a solid hub, it was trouble before I put in the rubber hub but it was too late. Long story. Good story, Tex bough breakfast after it.

I heard about the hub. good idea.

FlynLow
01-29-2009, 07:34 PM
I'm sorry if I may be out of line, being a "Lurker" that doesn't post. I thought this thread was about balance. It was truly interesting until the introduction of a certain persons boat performance, propellers, and just plain arrogance tore it apart. It's like the old thing on the school ground, or the other in high school, "Mine's Bigger Than Yours" and "Mine's Faster Than Yours". I come to this site for facts as well as some others. Remember, there is always someone with a bigger one and someone with a faster one. Again, SORRY if I'm out of line, but I'd really enjoy reading the facts of balance from those that know.:)

Lenny
01-29-2009, 08:05 PM
One thing I will say is that solid Merc hub stinks and is a big issue. Honda will not warrant any solid hub use.

I love LOVE the solid hub Merc Racing Cleaver (labbed) on the LE18. It is by far my favorite of 4 props I have for the boat.

The only thing that DOES BUG ME is the solid hub... Kind a scares me with the Alpha SS... :eek:

oops, balance, balance, balance... Got to get on track :)

SilverBack
01-30-2009, 11:36 AM
I love LOVE the solid hub Merc Racing Cleaver (labbed) on the LE18. It is by far my favorite of 4 props I have for the boat.

The only thing that DOES BUG ME is the solid hub... Kind a scares me with the Alpha SS... :eek:

oops, balance, balance, balance... Got to get on track :)

Lenny....You LOVE a Mercury prop that is lab finished with a solid hub?? No way!! Me too!!!:wink:


:popcorn:

SilverBack
01-30-2009, 11:37 AM
BTW...does the square bore Mercury hubs with the solid piece that slips in count as a solid hub??

SilverBack
01-30-2009, 11:43 AM
I'm sorry if I may be out of line, being a "Lurker" that doesn't post. I thought this thread was about balance. It was truly interesting until the introduction of a certain persons boat performance, propellers, and just plain arrogance tore it apart. It's like the old thing on the school ground, or the other in high school, "Mine's Bigger Than Yours" and "Mine's Faster Than Yours". I come to this site for facts as well as some others. Remember, there is always someone with a bigger one and someone with a faster one. Again, SORRY if I'm out of line, but I'd really enjoy reading the facts of balance from those that know.:)


http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-q/202007-balancing-boat.html

Morgan's Cloud
01-30-2009, 11:58 AM
I'm sorry if I may be out of line, being a "Lurker" that doesn't post. I thought this thread was about balance. It was truly interesting until the introduction of a certain persons boat performance, propellers, and just plain arrogance tore it apart. It's like the old thing on the school ground, or the other in high school, "Mine's Bigger Than Yours" and "Mine's Faster Than Yours". I come to this site for facts as well as some others. Remember, there is always someone with a bigger one and someone with a faster one. Again, SORRY if I'm out of line, but I'd really enjoy reading the facts of balance from those that know.:)


Now just watch yerself there ya lil young whippersnapper ......:tooth::tooth:



If you aint carefull you'll soon be reading posts about 'dustclouds' and 'sunsets' LOL
:rolleyes:

The Hedgehog
01-30-2009, 12:19 PM
Now we all know that Keith's threads tend to go way OT for some reason:wink:

I will attempt to bring things back on subject.

I have been reflecting on the subject and think that there is something there. At least for solo wide open runs and the such. Poodle is right about for general running around you will have people moving around and such. For instance on the setp hull ZX you can take a 200lb guy and have him go in the cabin while running 55 or so and you will lose a few mph. I could see it being as bad if not worse on a pad hull since as you have more nose in the water, you will not have steps to break up the flow.

I think that you can figure out a pretty good bit just by getting people to move around while you are under way. After that it is properly placing weights, sand bags etc. to figure it out. I have not looked in yours, but the platform in a 27ZX and 26ZX is hollow. If you really wanted to get weight in the back you could put it there. You would want to be able to remove it in case you don't want it there if you have people in the back.

SilverBack
01-30-2009, 12:38 PM
Now we all know that Keith's threads tend to go way OT for some reason:wink:

I will attempt to bring things back on subject.

I have been reflecting on the subject and think that there is something there. At least for solo wide open runs and the such. Poodle is right about for general running around you will have people moving around and such. For instance on the setp hull ZX you can take a 200lb guy and have him go in the cabin while running 55 or so and you will lose a few mph. I could see it being as bad if not worse on a pad hull since as you have more nose in the water, you will not have steps to break up the flow.

I think that you can figure out a pretty good bit just by getting people to move around while you are under way. After that it is properly placing weights, sand bags etc. to figure it out. I have not looked in yours, but the platform in a 27ZX and 26ZX is hollow. If you really wanted to get weight in the back you could put it there. You would want to be able to remove it in case you don't want it there if you have people in the back.


Thanks for getting us back on track!!! The swim deck is hollow and open to the engine compartment for that matter. The glass is just soo thin up there....I wounder if the extra weight would crack up my swim deck when it takes a little bit of a beating? My boat is very thin or flexible anyway. It is not nearly as stiff as my Ragazza or the 28 ZX or 38 ZX that Mark had at his shop. I would not want for it to start cracking up. So far theonly crack of any kind on the whole boat is right in front of the rear seat int he floor board.


The LCG is supposed to be at the rear of the rear seat in my boat. Adding anything will only bring the LCG forward. You can't store anything that is not bolted down under the hatch the way the engine compartment is made so I think that if i got it balanced for just me and half a tank of fuel that anything additional would just move the the LCG forward closer to where it is now. I will not be doing any high speed passes with a bunch of gear or people in the boat anyway.

mattyboy
01-30-2009, 12:46 PM
pretty darn interesting thread, balance i guess is an ongoing issue seems i recall a picture of 007 or 008 with a control panel for the numerous ballast tanks and descriptions on them looked like a control panel for the water company. not sure on a production boat with different equipment and options the balance point is different a 45 zx daytona from a 45 zx loaded up with microwaves and air conditioners not to mention the throngs of friends you would have if you had a 45zx milling around while you were under way. I guess rigging one yourself you could shift the balance point??

Ghost
01-30-2009, 12:58 PM
I don't know how much difference the fine adjustments make, but I always thought you could do some very precise testing by putting an engine on rails, with a telescoping 2-piece jackshaft, and move the whole power plant fore and aft about a foot or so. (If it were helpful enough, you could actually use it in a real boat for trim.)

Yes, I know it's crazy. Just seemed like an interesting concept. Not much in our boats, but maybe a long, closed-deck layout like and old Chris or Gar Wood.

Yeah, still crazy anyway...

SilverBack
01-30-2009, 01:00 PM
I think that balance is very important. You can get any boat to carry the bow if the balance is in the right place for what you are trying to do. If you have a classic that is pretty close to begin with I can see how you would not think it was that important but I think that Donzi and Baja and Formula and Fountain make compromises in there production boats that are not acceptable in a boat that is running in the 100 MPH range. If the boat "naturally" balanced back on the pad and took a good set then you could utilize all of your thrust for forward motion. I talked to Rick at Arneson and even GEOO did some hull modification and boat balancing!! I would like to hear what CDMA Chris thinks about this!!

The Hedgehog
01-30-2009, 01:35 PM
I think that balance is very important. You can get any boat to carry the bow if the balance is in the right place for what you are trying to do. If you have a classic that is pretty close to begin with I can see how you would not think it was that important but I think that Donzi and Baja and Formula and Fountain make compromises in there production boats that are not acceptable in a boat that is running in the 100 MPH range. If the boat "naturally" balanced back on the pad and took a good set then you could utilize all of your thrust for forward motion. I talked to Rick at Arneson and even GEOO did some hull modification and boat balancing!! I would like to hear what CDMA Chris thinks about this!!

You could just rig up some of those ballast tanks like they use on wakeboard boats. You could actually change it as you were under way.

SilverBack
01-30-2009, 01:43 PM
I am learning about ballast tanks over on the other site but you are right about that. They just fill them or empty them depending on conditions. It seems like one in your anchor box and two (one in each corner) in the rear of the boat may be the way to go. I don't think that I need the one in the front. I am way too nose heavy already.

I am thinking about the external swim deck platform again also. That gives you a lot of options and it moves the weight further to the rear.

mattyboy
01-30-2009, 02:00 PM
yeah they are adjustable like k planes but don't have any direct contact with the water except for whatever pickup will lead to the pump. now i know hot air is lighter than cold air what about hot water and cold water ??? :tongue:

The Hedgehog
01-30-2009, 05:38 PM
You could always mount a spoiler on the back. That would increase the downforce as speed rises!

Boatless
01-30-2009, 06:44 PM
You could always mount a spoiler on the back. That would increase the downforce as speed rises!

Or on the opposite end. Buzzi uses a wing on the font of the nose of his designs in an attempt to overcome the negative trim angle in his drives. He disguises these as "anti stuffing" devices as no aero devices are allowed in race boats but he is just skirting the rules.

http://fbdesign.it/c40.php

The Hedgehog
01-30-2009, 06:48 PM
Or on the opposite end. Buzzi uses a wing on the font of the nose of his designs in an attempt to overcome the negative trim angle in his drives. He disguises these as "anti stuffing" devices as no aero devices are allowed in race boats but he is just skirting the rules.
http://fbdesign.it/c40.php

I saw that.

He may need a little of both to mitigate blowover!

I really think he would be wasting his time. He should consider a set of hydrofoils!

Boatless
01-30-2009, 08:23 PM
I saw that.
He may need a little of both to mitigate blowover!
I really think he would be wasting his time. He should consider a set of hydrofoils!

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't there a speed limit with hydrofoils? I remember years back I asked "why don't they just use a hydrofoil, and the answer was they were only good for certain speed ranges due to the drag of the foil itself ????????

Maybe he can use the center mounted wing like this http://fbdesign.it/hcesa.php

FlynLow
01-30-2009, 10:47 PM
Thanks Silverback. Though running small (18 Classic), seems these adjustments can be more critical. I once asked a Captain the reason for large pumps in the life boats, "Because it takes less water to sink them". Made sense.

BigGrizzly
01-31-2009, 09:12 AM
Ghost, In my early years we actually did move engines back and forth on our Jersey Skiffs. We would test it on the measured Mile(no GPS then). then with come-a-longs loosen the engine mounts, which were wedges with slots, move the motor, lock it down and test again. We did this for water conditions and speed. Btw with that boat speed and handling were not usually at the same time one would sacrifice the other. For the people who do not know, the Jersey Skiff was a inboard race class when I was growing up. I made some money making some long slotted engine mounts and spline d output shafts. Some people though I was smart. The truth is my grand father came up with the idea when I discussed the issues the boat had. Pappap was a car guy and the only power boat he had was a steam powered canoe.

The Hedgehog
01-31-2009, 09:17 AM
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't there a speed limit with hydrofoils? I remember years back I asked "why don't they just use a hydrofoil, and the answer was they were only good for certain speed ranges due to the drag of the foil itself ????????
Maybe he can use the center mounted wing like this http://fbdesign.it/hcesa.php

Good point.

I like the center wing. It could have an integrated wakeboard tower.

SilverBack
01-31-2009, 09:27 AM
You are full of Crap!!! :wink: How come the diving board has not come up yet??

Ghost
01-31-2009, 01:29 PM
Ghost, In my early years we actually did move engines back and forth on our Jersey Skiffs. We would test it on the measured Mile(no GPS then). then with come-a-longs loosen the engine mounts, which were wedges with slots, move the motor, lock it down and test again. We did this for water conditions and speed. Btw with that boat speed and handling were not usually at the same time one would sacrifice the other. For the people who do not know, the Jersey Skiff was a inboard race class when I was growing up. I made some money making some long slotted engine mounts and spline d output shafts. Some people though I was smart. The truth is my grand father came up with the idea when I discussed the issues the boat had. Pappap was a car guy and the only power boat he had was a steam powered canoe.

Very cool stuff, thanks, and good to hear that something along those lines has been done.

BTW, I've gotten to enjoy some skiff races here on the Chesapeake--made me think I'd hopped back in time. I figure they've updated the engines, but it looked like a pure, 1-design hull that could be 50+ years old. Looks like a He11 of a ride.

Greg Guimond
02-20-2010, 08:51 PM
naked hull ............

oledawg
02-21-2010, 08:53 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2Tqatw4kjY
Awesome boats, direct drive, no reverse....

Greg Guimond
02-21-2010, 09:07 AM
Now that clip redefines "balancing the boat" :shades:

DONZI
02-21-2010, 09:50 AM
Some pics. from Progressions website.

joseph m. hahnl
02-21-2010, 01:51 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2Tqatw4kjY
Awesome boats, direct drive, no reverse....



I like this direct drive with no reverse

http://www.donzi.net/photos/Donzivideo2.wmv (http://www.donzi.net/photos/Donzivideo2.wmv)