PDA

View Full Version : 468 BBC build



CJmike
01-22-2009, 09:38 PM
Well Keith asked in his thread and a few others have asked what I am doing with the Big Green ZX's motor. I really wanted to do something along the lines of Bill, LRT, and Keith. But common sense took over, wife, and the scale of the build was brought back to more reasonable standards.

So we tore the 454 down to see what we had to work with. the block was sonic tested and it was determined we could take it .060 over safely. the crank and rods were checked next and they looked good as well. the pistons were tossed in the trashcan since they were hypereutectic. Next thing was to tear apart the heads and have a look at those. Not pretty but useable. A plan was formulated and parts were procurred.

I looked around and did some web surfing. Talked to some people and evaluted the budget. There were some pretty tempting long block deals out there, and even some complete engines, we looked long and hard at the 540 combo but I decided to pass for now. My buddy Frank has rebuilt a few motors for me and it was decided to rebuild what I had. We then came up with a parts list and I went to work buying parts. He went to work with all the machining.

So right now the combination we are putting togther is as follows:
454 bored .060 over to yield 468 cubes
Kept the stock forged crank and rods
SRP 23cc forged small domed piston which should yield a 9.3 compression ratio with some slight machine work (#212136)
525 EFI camshaft
Cloyes Hex A Just timing chain (#9-3149A)
Imco Timing chain cover(#TC52)
Cometic Head Gaskets .060
Stock iron heads-reworked by Frank
Ferrea valves
2.25 stainless steel intake (#F2112P)
1.94 Inconnel exhaust (#F2121P)
Harland Sharp Roller Rockers (#S2001)
Comp Cams Daul rate springs/retainers/locks (#933-16/ #741-16/ #603-16)
ARP rocker studs (#334-7204)
ARP head bolts (#135-3601)
Melling oil pump
Felpro gaskets
500 EFI Intake
Imco blue valve covers with breathers
Dana Marine Exhaust with Vortex V risers

I am sure I am forgetting something but thats the jest of it.
Need to find a tuner for the EFI yet. I have talked to Eddie but have not talked to Mark Boos yet. Eddie is alot closer.

Hope is to be close to 500 horsepower.

SilverBack
01-22-2009, 09:51 PM
You can't go wrong with either Eddie or Mark!! They are both really great guys and really care about you and your engine!!

That sounds great...did you get the cam and intake together? You will be able to turn that combo a little higher..maybe 6k or so. That cam is bigger than mine and Tex's. We both have 502's. You will have to turn it a little higher rpm but that is ok.

CJmike
01-22-2009, 09:58 PM
Nah the cam is a 525EFI cam and the intake is 500EFI. I liked the specs on the 525 EFI cam a little better than the 500 EFI cam. So i went with it. After some digging around on the intakes I found a 500EFI intake was almost a direct swap for the MagMPI intake I had. Computer systems are very similar. I also found a very good deal on both on OSO. Gotta be frugal.:wink:

BUIZILLA
01-22-2009, 09:59 PM
SRP 23cc forged dished piston which should yield a 9.3 compression ratio with some slight machine work
Cometic Head Gaskets .060
Stock iron heads-reworked by Frank are you sure about this? what cc chambers?

The Hedgehog
01-22-2009, 11:04 PM
I would talk to the tuner first and get a px from him.

mrfixxall
01-23-2009, 09:38 AM
Im with Buiz,go with a bigger dome piston..Unless you plan on supercharging it

CJmike
01-23-2009, 11:31 AM
are you sure about this? what cc chambers?

Nope its backwards. It was late I was tired. Its a small dome piston.

Actually compression would have been 9.5 with out a little machining on the piston dome. With a little machining we were able to get it down to 9.3.
My guy wants 9.3 I wanted higher. Talked to Eddie and he thought 9.3 sounded better as well. We also did some head work to bring the compression down there as well. Stock head was 119cc I think he tweaked it slighly from there. With a stock untouched head, .040 head gasket, and with the piston we got would have been closer to 10 to 1.

Updated the first post with the correct information and added some part #'s.

SilverBack
01-23-2009, 11:39 AM
When you start a build up thread you had better be on your p's and q's.....You had better get ready for some different opinions too. Good luck..I know you are on the right track....BTW...Make sure to listen to Buizilla...He is always right on the money on things!!

BUIZILLA
01-23-2009, 12:47 PM
ok, now it makes more sense... keep the timing at 32* with 89 and you'll be okay, massage the chambers and get rid of any flashing that would cause detonation and do it to it..

CJmike
01-23-2009, 12:56 PM
Yep he is working on getting the chambers cleaned up this week. Lots of work on the heads this week. I wanted him to set the compression for 92 octane becuase the boat is always filled up on land before it goes in the water. But he fought me on it. After Eddie agreed with him I relented.

BigGrizzly
01-23-2009, 01:11 PM
Unlike BUIZ, I read the parts descriptions:wink: so I knew what you were thinking. I just want to say you don't want to twist that engine past 5400 if you can help it. I DO know what can happen. As for timing, I am with Buiz on that one. If timing goes higher your be buying that new motor before you know it. Trust me I have worked with the guys that make the rules not follow them. At this point It sounds fine. I mite have done a different cam which really is mostly subjective and everybody has an opinion but that cam is good.

CJmike
01-24-2009, 03:08 PM
Stopped by and picked up some unused parts and dropped off a few parts today. Milodon timing chain that I got that was suppose to fit didn't. Replaced with Cloyes Hex A Just. Things are coming along. He was about half way on all the machining. Bought the same with the head work. Few more weeks it should be going back togther.

BigGrizzly
01-25-2009, 09:31 AM
Take the time, Rome was not built in a day neither was Hoboken New Jersey

CJmike
03-06-2009, 08:59 PM
Picked up the motor last night. Managed to get it on the engine stand. Now I am working on getting all the accessories back on it and getting the wiring hooked up. What a pain.

Where does everyone move the computer too if you have one so its not sitting over top the valve cover?

Maybe next week sometime it will go to the dyno guy for some tuning and break in. Depends on how far I get this weekend.

The Hedgehog
03-07-2009, 06:45 AM
Keith Eikert makes a nice looking accessory mounting plate that bolts to the back of the engine. I will try to get some pics. I have it on the 850.

The Hedgehog
03-07-2009, 06:53 AM
Heading out to the mountains to go offroading. If you look in my thread titled "coming out of hibernation" you will see it. The pics have already been posted and I don't have time to grab the link

CJmike
03-08-2009, 07:53 PM
Spent the weekend moving the computer to the back of the engine. Now I just need to figure out the oil filter and the fuel line. More work, more work.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/CJMikeK/IMGP1586.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/CJMikeK/IMGP1588.jpg

CJmike
03-08-2009, 07:57 PM
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/CJMikeK/IMGP1587.jpg

osur866
03-08-2009, 08:10 PM
Looks like its coming together

MOP
03-08-2009, 08:29 PM
Looking good, have to love the Dana's will keep an eye out for your results!

Phil

The Hedgehog
03-08-2009, 08:54 PM
Looks nice. I like the oil filter on the transom in a nice location where I can get a bucket under it when it is oil change time.

You will like the Danas.

Who is doing the program?

Last Real Texan
03-08-2009, 08:56 PM
Sweeeeeeeeeeet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:kingme:: kingme::kingme::kingme::kingme::kingme::kingme::ki ngme::kingme::kingme::kingme::kingme::kingme::king me::kingme::kingme:



Tex

BigGrizzly
03-09-2009, 07:46 AM
Mike its coming along great. I mounted my oil filter remote too. I also remote the fuel filter and used a really big one, That is what I was told to do.:D:D Everything looks good I hope it runs as well as it looks.

CJmike
03-09-2009, 08:16 AM
Thanks for the compliments. Its coming along.

What are you guys using for the remote oil filter. Are you just relocating the stock stuff and having new lines made are you going with a new set up?

Bill I wanted to take the boat down to Eddie but I just couldn't make it work. Had to do lots of digging but finally found a guy in Wisconsin about 4 hours away that seems knowledgable. So as soon as I can get it ready I am taking it over to him for dynotuning. All the guys I had used in the past were scared of the MEFI stuff. This guy sounds like he has done lots of different systems. At least he talks the talk.

His name is Ed Caser.

www.doneriteautomotive.com (http://www.doneriteautomotive.com)

BigGrizzly
03-09-2009, 08:20 AM
I mounted mine off the rear of the cylinder head wit a std off the shelf oil filter relocation kit from Summit racing, there all similar. I did use made up fittings instead of hose clamps and rubber hoses. I ran the lines to and from the oil cooler too.

BUIZILLA
03-09-2009, 08:55 AM
does anybody know the air bleed hole size (as in thousands) in the 500EFI throttle body blades?

The Hedgehog
03-10-2009, 08:47 PM
Thanks for the compliments. Its coming along.

What are you guys using for the remote oil filter. Are you just relocating the stock stuff and having new lines made are you going with a new set up?

Bill I wanted to take the boat down to Eddie but I just couldn't make it work. Had to do lots of digging but finally found a guy in Wisconsin about 4 hours away that seems knowledgable. So as soon as I can get it ready I am taking it over to him for dynotuning. All the guys I had used in the past were scared of the MEFI stuff. This guy sounds like he has done lots of different systems. At least he talks the talk.

His name is Ed Caser.

www.doneriteautomotive.com (http://www.doneriteautomotive.com)

Sounds good. That ought to wake things up.

I am with what Griz is proposing on the oil filter relo. That should work out well.

BUIZILLA
03-10-2009, 08:50 PM
does anybody know the air bleed hole size (as in thousands) in the 500EFI throttle body blades? echo...

CJmike
03-10-2009, 09:01 PM
I'll try and take a look when I am feeling better. Been under the weather yesterday and today. Haven't been in the garage since Sunday. Hopefully tomorrow this crud breaks. If I can get all my parts by this weekend I would like to finish assembly and get it the dyno.

donzi2287
03-10-2009, 09:11 PM
Very nice.....wish I had efi as I have the carb 500 hp..keep it up it's only 10 more trips to the parts store... ha ha!!!!! I've been there.:drive:

CJmike
03-10-2009, 09:38 PM
Well I sent my entire wish list to Madpoddle maybe him and Fed ex can come through for me.

Also Last Real Texan was in a giving mood when he got back from Jackson Hole and is sending me some left over fuel parts he had laying around. I am hoping it comes togther this weekend.

CJmike
03-20-2009, 09:50 AM
Well thanks to a package that arrived yesterday from Madpoddle the motor is very close to being dyno ready. Couple of odds and ends to wrap up tonight and then off to the Dyno shop on Saturday. May have to stop and tour Lienes on the way home. Since I will be driving right by anyways.

http://www.leinie.com/tour_hours.html

Ed will have the motor for a few weeks to dynotune it. Not that I think it will take him that long. But I am heading down to Clayton, OK for some four wheeling adventures the 26 -30th. Hopefully picking the motor back up April 4th.

Should be interesting to see what the combination puts down for horsepower.

CJmike
04-21-2009, 08:32 AM
Well I am thinking it will finish the dyno tuning today. So far results look good. Don't know any of the specifics at where the numbers happen but what he feed me last night is 510 horspower and 530 foot pounds of torque.

The Hedgehog
04-21-2009, 08:38 AM
Well I am thinking it will finish the dyno tuning today. So far results look good. Don't know any of the specifics at where the numbers happen but what he feed me last night is 510 horspower and 530 foot pounds of torque.

That will wake it up pretty good

CJmike
04-21-2009, 08:47 AM
What where you guessing the HP was when you had the procharger on the 502?

Speeds you were seeing with that set up in the 27zx?
Prop?

The Hedgehog
04-21-2009, 09:01 AM
What where you guessing the HP was when you had the procharger on the 502?

Speeds you were seeing with that set up in the 27zx?
Prop?

I ran a 4 blade B1 labbed 26". I could pull to 68 pretty easily. Getting above 70 required one of those perfect days, cool (but not cold) good chop, wind at back etc. As in the case with all non steps, the rougher the water the better. A good chop can make 5 mph difference. I figure I was giving up a solid 3 mph on the prop. I had maybe 570 hp (I think that procharger overstates their numbers).

Dialed in right you should run 65. maybe more. Talk to Grizz about props and don't waste your time on labbed props. Big heavy V-s don't seem to like them. Tex and I both got our shirt for that one. I blew a bunch of money at Throttle up and he blew a bunch of money at BBlades.

A nice 3 blade with some good bow lift is the ticket for high end and seat time helps to find the sweet spot with trim.

Grizz and I were both pretty confident that I was leaving a few mph on the table.

BigGrizzly
04-21-2009, 09:59 AM
Here is what I got with my M1 in the for sale section-A carbed 502. 698 HP @ 5200 with 700 lbs of torque at 3977 rpms at just 4.7 psi of boost. the 22 Criterion ran 86+with 3/4 to full fuel and 3 people on board. It has often achieved 84 with full fuel and 5 people on board. So this is your reference point

CJmike
04-21-2009, 10:25 AM
Griz got any thoughts on the right prop for this boat now?

BigGrizzly
04-21-2009, 12:12 PM
I can only gues at this point, a 100 hp less that is about 1 or 2 less then what Bill ran but a different style, Maybe a 26 or 27 at the biggest, anything bigger is not going to happen, just not enough torque.

CJmike
04-21-2009, 12:24 PM
I picked up a 25 High 5 this winter from Keith to try. Figured it was someplace to start since I trashed my 23 the last time out.

The Hedgehog
04-21-2009, 01:02 PM
I picked up a 25 High 5 this winter from Keith to try. Figured it was someplace to start since I trashed my 23 the last time out.

Ouch.

My guess is a 25" 3 blade and spin it well.

I wanted to try a TXP type of a prop that generates all around lift on that boat. I dunno if that was the answer.

CJmike
04-23-2009, 09:23 PM
Well the motor is set back in the boat as of tonight. Still need to align the motor and get tailpipes for the danas coming. Thats the two big things. Tons of little thing to do before it hits the water. Turns out the stock fuel system wasn't happy with the new found thirst for fuel so I will be upgrading that in the next few days. Need to remote some things on the transome and finish cleaning up the wiring. Heres a quick picture I snapped tonight.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/CJMikeK/boat%20exhaust/IMGP1647.jpg

Dyno sheet I got was from the detuned safe gas tune he sent me home with. The motor makes ove 500 ft pounds from 3000 rpm all the way up to almost 5000 rpm's. Horsepower peaked at 5200 rpm's at 510. Pretty nice power curve the whole way up. Torque peaked around 545. Can't wait to fire it up and get out in the water.

BigGrizzly
04-24-2009, 07:51 AM
I am going to stick with my numbers at this point, except drop the 27, there is just not enough there for that big a prop, except a B1 wich always runs short and not my first choice.

The Hedgehog
04-25-2009, 12:38 PM
I am going to stick with my numbers at this point, except drop the 27, there is just not enough there for that big a prop, except a B1 wich always runs short and not my first choice.

As one who has tried many props on that hull I would concur with those comments.

Mike, you are getting the big Dana Vortex pipes right?

CJmike
04-27-2009, 07:54 AM
Yes the big Dana Vortex pipes were ordered up. Gonna be a little longer than standard length. Hopefully they don't take to long to get. Worked on cleaning up wiring on Saturday. Need to work on fuel system.

CJmike
11-25-2009, 04:05 PM
Well I haven't commented much this summer on things, but I thought I should post a follow up.I ended up with a 22 pitch Bravo 1 prop on it. The motor will run out to about 5100 rpm with this prop. Had big problems on the tailpipes from Dana. After having them remade twice they are now correct. Motor ran great most of the summer. Had a minor glitch with a ground, but once I found that things settled in. At the end of the season I finally got a chance to run it with just myself in it and low on fuel. Managed a 63mph gps run on a local lake. I think if I had been on the river where I could have left it open for longer I might have hit 65mph. But it runs pretty good now. Maybe a supercharger is still needed but not sure at this point. Hard to get an old heavy boat like this to keep up with the step bottom boats. For now it is put away for the winter.

gero1
11-26-2009, 08:10 AM
jus wondering what the differecne would be if you did the same build but with a 502 and alum heads

BigGrizzly
11-27-2009, 08:14 AM
The RPMs and prop and speed sound right but the horsepower doesn't. Don't know the real numbers but with thoes numbers you stateds sound more then your boat is achieving.