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DonziJon
01-20-2009, 09:52 AM
Last week I saw the Governor of Michigan on TV comment how happy she was (I Think) that the battery's that will be used in the Chevy Volt were designed, perfected, and built in South Korea. They will be Assembled in Michigan. WHAT::bonk: Next thing you know they will be telling us the Chevy Volt is really a Corolla and we should be happy for GM and their inovation. :confused: John

Just Say N20
01-20-2009, 10:23 AM
Pretty amazing, isn't it.

But then, our wonderful governor, who has made Michigan the poster child for "worst state in the union" relative to about every economic indicator known to man, was one of BOs first picks to be on his Economic Advisory counsel.

I know when I'm looking for advice, I always make sure I find the biggest failure possible, and then implement what they suggest.

It couldn't have anything to do with rewarding someone for union support. . .could it? Nah!

mikev
01-20-2009, 10:36 AM
Got to love our government :bonk: I try and support you Michigan guys all my vehicles are GM and my Donzi has a Chevy motor in it.

Craig S
01-20-2009, 08:50 PM
At least they got the battery, finally.

Have they found the molds for the front fenders for the Camaro yet? and another upholstery vendor?

Tony
01-20-2009, 10:05 PM
Granholm has faced a series of unfortunate events, starting with inheriting a massive deficit from John Engler. Manufacturing jobs and businesses migrated overseas and automakers struggled. A huge factor was when, in 1999, legislators enacted a 23 year phase-out of the Single Business Tax resulting in a revenue loss over the next four years of $1.4 billion dollars.

Next, not content with the long-term plan, in 2003 legislators inexplicately eliminated the SBT...completely without a plan to replace the $2 billion dollars/year in revenue it produced! On top of that, these same brilliant thinkers refused to meet or attend work sessions - resulting in a budget crisis and a near shut down of state services. Granholm suggested a variety of cuts only to be met with opposition from one side or another. No one, of course, dared suggest raising taxes for fear of re-election chances.

Michigan was in a bad way even before the current economic crisis. Recent nationwide woes have exacerbated Michigan's struggles exponentially. The following essay, however, sheds light on an interesting perspective, especially for all those who enjoy "piling on" The Great Lake State.


Nation Doesn't Owe Michigan a Dime - Or Does It?

Bob Oklejas, president of Pump Engineering Inc. (PEI) in Frenchtown Township, called the other day to chat about old times.

Bob's growing company designs and makes highly energy-efficient pump turbochargers mainly used in systems that convert seawater to drinkable water. His customers are in the Middle East, Asia and other parts of the world where fresh water is as treasured as oil.

He called to commiserate about the debate over federal aid to the auto industry. Bob isn't a supplier to the auto industry, but he's a deep thinker. And he thinks Michigan and its auto industry have been getting the shaft.

That's where the old times come in. He remembers the day, not long ago, when debate raged over whether Michigan was getting a fair return on the federal tax dollars it sent to Washington .

Michigan long has been sort of a sugar daddy to the federal government - sending billions, year after year, as the state's auto plants hummed and the state prospered. "Most of that money went to southern states," Bob says.

In the '60s and '70s, Michigan Sen. Phil Hart was called the "Conscience of the Senate" because of the deft way he blended humanitarianism and public policy. He didn't quibble about money from Michigan being redistributed to states that were less fortunate and needed infrastructure and human services.

Judging by comments from some federal legislators recently, that sense of stewardship now is out of fashion.

Bob raised the question of how much Michigan has sent to the federal government since, say, the end of World War II and how much it's gotten in return. "We are usually dead last in per capita tax dollars gotten back from the federal government," Bob said. Well, not exactly dead last, but pretty close.

A review of 2007 figures for federal money spent in Michigan versus the total dollars the state sent to the federal government is revealing. Michigan now ranks 45th out of 50 in the per capita amount of federal funds it receives. It was 44th in 2006. Michigan continues to be a "donor" state when it comes to the federal treasury, while states such as Ohio , Alaska and Alabama continue to receive more money from Washington than they send it.

A Citizens Research Council of Michigan study concluded that "if Michigan had received the same proportion of all federal payments to states as the proportion of its population to the total U.S. population, an additional $14 billion in direct payments would have been made to Michigan recipients in 2007."

Hmmm. With the state government facing a deficit now estimated to be between $450 and $900 million and with automakers teetering on bankruptcy, what in the world would Michigan do with an extra $14 billion?

To hear some federal legislators tell it - including some from Tennessee and Alabama - we'd probably just blow it.

Now let's jump in the way-back machine and take a look at some comparative figures from a few states. In 2005, Michigan sent about $66.3 billion to the federal government. It got back about $64.8 billion, meaning it subsidized federal operations to the tune of about $1.5 billion.

That same year, Alabama sent $24.7 billion to the feds and got back $42 billion, for a net profit of $17.3 billion. Tennessee sent $35.9 billion to Washington , got back $48.3 billion, for a profit of $12.4 billion. This inequity has been going on for decades.

Bob was in Huntsville , Ala. , a few months ago. The place is rich with federal space facilities and related federal contractors. "This is a very prosperous area," he said. "Everything is so nice, and then you realize it's all federal government spending and, meanwhile, our state goes down the drain."

Given the billions that Michigan consistently has sent to Washington over the years, you'd think the federal government would rush to loan money to the auto industry and chalk it up as payback time.

Instead, Washington suddenly acts as if it's tight-fisted, oblivious that by nickel-and-diming the car companies, those inside the Beltway might well be cutting their own throats. As Bob Oklejas put it: " Michigan is the goose that's laid the golden egg.

:beer:

Ghost
01-21-2009, 02:58 AM
I find it quite revealing that in that article, no mention is made of of how best any dollars would have been spent. Was it "right" to spend more than the collected dollars in AL and OH and AK and TN? Were the dollars well spent? Better spent than they would have been in other states like MI? Nope, no mention of any of that. Now that our drunken spending is beginning to grind to a forced halt, people are starting to quibble simply about whether their state got enough dollars, no matter what sort of dollars and for what use.

You don't expect me to believe that government didn't make all the right decisions about what to do with all the money it took from us? And what, you think that your state might switch from being a donor to a recipient? Sorry, the Government needs Michigan to step up and find a way to continue its strong ways of the past--Michigan has always been a strong donor state and we are counting on that in these tough times more than ever.

This is a truly evil mentality, but it is a real mentality of government, both toward your state and toward the individual taxpayer.

What, do we need a law that ensures each state gets back the money it pays? Then we will need a law that ensures each county and then city gets back what it pays. Ironically, this is on the right track, in a way. We need a law that each taxpayer gets back what he pays. And there is an EASY way to do it, that guarantees the math is right, and that minimizes the overhead cost of ensuring it really happens: stop confiscating most of the money in the first place. Quit the social experimentation and redistribution of wealth. Pay for the army. Pay for roads. Pay for police and fire and trash collection, and the absolute minimum social safety net. Then we know what we are paying for, and it costs pennies on the dollar of what we pay today. Nobody needs to hope the politicians don't shaft him because they can't.

But we don't do this, and herein lies, to me, the essence of what is so ruinous about government as we know it today. We all sit at one big table, and the governent orders whatever it chooses. Overpriced wines. Lots of appetizers and entrees and desserts. But we who foot the bill are not able to choose what we want from what makes it to the table. Nor are we afforded a separate check that represents paying for what we ate.

How can anyone but the most politically connected or hopelessly naive NOT expect to be horribly shafted by such a system where the controls on the government are so limited?

So, MI has been screwed, as have we all. The crime of welfare for the rich bankers with peanuts for the blue collar worker is precisely to be expected. Sheesh, don't these blue collar workers know their proper place in the politicians' real pecking order? The outrage should be that any of us should have to depend upon that pecking order.

Had the blood not been sucked for decades from the people of MI, like all of us, to fund wasteful and imprudent initiatives that do nothing but make pols and their cronies more rich and more powerful, none of what the people of MI and elsewhere are experiencing would be happening.

But these are the results anyone should expect from the monster of our big government. Eventually, the cushion of time afforded by government and personal borrowing runs out, and the inevitable effects of misuse of wealth come home to roost. Make no mistake: the result is human suffering. Hunger, cold, sickness, crime. Real suffering.

Anyone who is fool enough to believe in the viability of the levels of taxation we have today should be fool enough to believe government should hand out enough money that we can all live like kings. If one has enough sense to understand inherently that such nonsense is mathematically impossible, why is the impossibility of our current approach not obvious as well?

A clear example: how much of your wealth, or the collective wealth of Michigan, would you spend to avoid the spectre of global warming? I cannot say how you will answer today. But I can tell you with great certainty what your own honest answer will be when the choice is between a carbon tax and something for you to eat once you are hungry.

This is reality. It is time we face it. It is time to put things back on track ourselves by cutting government back and eliminating public monies for things that don't produce something for which people will voluntarily pay their own money.

Or maybe not. Perhaps it is more productive to argue at Court in Wonderland about how it would all be better if the likes of poor Jennifer Granholm didn't get dealt a bad hand. Yeah, that's really the root of the problem.

DonziJon
01-21-2009, 09:39 AM
OMG.. Mr. Ghost: That dissertation was totally uncalled for. :bonk: Now I am starting to Feel Negative......AND....Yesterday I was TOTALLY PUMPED after I actually heard our new leader SPEAK ...........What was it he said???? :nilly: John

Lenny
01-21-2009, 10:08 AM
Jon, I have been meaning to bring this to your attention whether right or not. Your signature.

The worlds largest sloop, is it not this one ?

http://www.mirabellayachts.com/mirabella5/press/index.php?article=3

I have been following it for a few years :yes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirabella_V

Talk about a thread hijack :D

zelatore
01-21-2009, 10:47 AM
Jon, I have been meaning to bring this to your attention whether right or not. Your signature.

The worlds largest sloop, is it not this one ?

http://www.mirabellayachts.com/mirabella5/press/index.php?article=3

I have been following it for a few years :yes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirabella_V

Talk about a thread hijack :D

Good Lord Man! That's a scary-big furling rig! :eek:

I can't even imagine how much they spent just on those furlers...

DonziJon
01-21-2009, 10:53 AM
Jon, I have been meaning to bring this to your attention whether right or not. Your signature.

The worlds largest sloop, is it not this one ?

http://www.mirabellayachts.com/mirabella5/press/index.php?article=3

I have been following it for a few years :yes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirabella_V

Talk about a thread hijack :D

Thanks Lenny. I stand corrected. I was unaware of Mirabella V. Truly impressive with over 36,000 square feet of sail. Makes RELIANCE look like a Dinghy. :bonk: John

glashole
01-21-2009, 11:16 AM
and for another hijack


what happens to all those batteries once they are nfg anymore?

DonziJon
01-21-2009, 11:48 AM
and for another hijack


what happens to all those batteries once they are nfg anymore?

What's NFG mean? :nilly: John

Tony
01-21-2009, 11:59 AM
What's NFG mean? :nilly: John

no f*^#@*g good


:beer: