PDA

View Full Version : 6.2l LSA 540 hp for Critter.....



Donziweasel
01-12-2009, 01:38 PM
I was discussing my engine with my builder today and he mentioned that he was now a dealer for the new GM Marine engines, including the LSA SC one-

http://www.gm.com/experience/technology/gmpowertrain/engines/specialized/marine/2009_6200_LSA_Marine.pdf

I was considering a BB (and still am), but the price on the LSA SC was VERY competitive.

Question- How will having a 450 pound engine vs. the almost 800 for a BBC affect handling and bow lift? Loosing 200-300 pounds off the ass end is definetly going to do something, and I hope it maked it better.

mjw930
01-12-2009, 02:16 PM
I'm curious about ancillary parts like sea pumps, fuel pumps and exhaust headers. That is REAL interesting as a replacement for the BBC in the 22C.....

BigGrizzly
01-12-2009, 02:21 PM
DW I though you were not going to do this. That engine has been brought up before. Then it goes to small block Vs. big block again. Let me put it into trucker terms. You are in a tractor trailer maxed out load wise. going up the long grade to Needles Ca. would you rather have a Caterpillar in the rig or a Cummings. There is no way a 540 hp supercharged 6.2l will run as hard and as fast as a supercharger BB with 540 HP. It may plane a little faster if it doesn't have a Shorty on it. Then there is the balance thing and CG. OH the ride may suffer too. Pardon me, my east coast Ocean driving is showing. in all around performance the 200/300 lbs loss is not going to benefit that of a BBC. Now lets hear it from the troops. John, the tail is waging the dog. The newest trick usually is not the best trick in the book. BTW, didn't you bring up that engine a year or so ago? I really like what I have as do the rest of the Criterion owners. Yet not one of them is thinking about putting a small block in it. Stick to a plan, Follow your own advice. I really don't like going into another 54 page thread.

BUIZILLA
01-12-2009, 02:50 PM
your boat has already had the CG changed towards the rear when the TRS was removed.. so the Bravo is heavier than the TRS with tranny? :nilly:

I understand the moving the engine back theory... but... seems a wash to me

CJmike
01-12-2009, 02:56 PM
With the elavation he is at, if he isn't going to supercharge the big block, I would lean towards the LS based motor.

Lots of plus's to the lighter LS based motor.

BUIZILLA
01-12-2009, 03:00 PM
Wease, where can we see a marine dressed engine pic?

what was the price?

Donziweasel
01-12-2009, 04:15 PM
Randy, just asking as it was brought up. My builder simply mentioned the fact that he now sells them. Not only that, he said either Gil or Stainless also made a exhaust for it.

Mine would be the first he has done, if I go that route. Interesting concept. Big Block power out of a SB with the wieght savings.

At my altitude, it would be around 450 hp. Not bad! Plus, I lose the weight. I am also looking at a 550-600 hp 540 NA. Those are the options right now.

Buiz, not sure he wanted the price public. I will PM you.

Donziweasel
01-12-2009, 05:50 PM
So, with the weight transfer of the Critter towards the rear vs. a regualr 22, how will the lighter motor handle vs. a BBC?

BERTRAM BOY
01-12-2009, 06:01 PM
The literature says says "premiem fuel only". Can you get higher octane at your gas docks?

fogducker III
01-12-2009, 06:19 PM
Randy, just asking as it was brought up. My builder simply mentioned the fact that he now sells them. Not only that, he said either Gil or Stainless also made a exhaust for it.

Mine would be the first he has done, if I go that route. Interesting concept. Big Block power out of a SB with the wieght savings.

At my altitude, it would be around 450 hp. Not bad! Plus, I lose the weight. I am also looking at a 550-600 hp 540 NA. Those are the options right now.

Buiz, not sure he wanted the price public. I will PM you.

Glad to see the mind is ticking over on this one John,

I went to Gil about a SBC exhaust set-up and I was told they only do BBC...?

Stainless Marine does a nice package for SBC....:wink:

zelatore
01-12-2009, 06:26 PM
DW I though you were not going to do this. That engine has been brought up before. Then it goes to small block Vs. big block again. Let me put it into trucker terms. You are in a tractor trailer maxed out load wise. going up the long grade to Needles Ca. would you rather have a Caterpillar in the rig or a Cummings. There is no way a 540 hp supercharged 6.2l will run as hard and as fast as a supercharger BB with 540 HP. It may plane a little faster if it doesn't have a Shorty on it. Then there is the balance thing and CG. OH the ride may suffer too. Pardon me, my east coast Ocean driving is showing. in all around performance the 200/300 lbs loss is not going to benefit that of a BBC. Now lets hear it from the troops. John, the tail is waging the dog. The newest trick usually is not the best trick in the book. BTW, didn't you bring up that engine a year or so ago? I really like what I have as do the rest of the Criterion owners. Yet not one of them is thinking about putting a small block in it. Stick to a plan, Follow your own advice. I really don't like going into another 54 page thread.


Griz, I'm not trying to argue with you - you've built more motors than I have to be sure.

But if the HP and torque are the same, and the curves are the same, what's the problem with the small block?

The numbers are the numbers - if they match it shouldn't matter if it's a BB, a SB, or a 2-stroke...as long as the curves are the same what would be different about the performance?

I admit, I haven't seen the curves for either this motor or the BB DW is considering, so maybe you're simply suggesting that although the peak ouputs are the same the curves will be different. Is that it?

I can also see an arguement that the motor turning out more hp/ci is working harder and therefore would have a shorter life expectancy - all things being equal. (which they rarely are)

I've also experienced 'new' small blocks from Crusader and Volvo with peak number as good or better than 'old' 454's that they discontinued in large heavy boats that simply don't handle for squat around the dock because the SB lacked the bottom end torque to spin a big wheel. But that comes back to the arguement about the curves not being the same. And certainly a little 22 doesn't need a ton of off-idle torque to move around the dock like a big boat.

I'm not trying to stir the pot - but seriously, why isn't a curve a curve?

zimm17
01-12-2009, 06:54 PM
I'm very interested in the LSA also. I'm staring at a $12k bill to build up an aluminum headed 502 for my EFI whipple and dyno tuning. How much is the LSA? I'd love to save the weight, have more modern technology, and save some fuel in the process.

Donziweasel
01-12-2009, 07:20 PM
Bertram, I fuel in town, so I can get the good stuff.

Don, Grizz, (if I may Randy) feels there are two reasons to stay with the BBC. 1. It was what was originally offered with the Critter and, 2. If I am not happy with the speed, then I can always add a blower to the BBC.

It has nothing to do with the curve, this is a stock GM marine engine with a kick ass power to wieght ratio and a damn good looking curve. It is a very potent marine powerplant.

Now, just looking for pro's and con's of the BBC, (which I am still pricing and working on) or this engine. The idea of decent fuel mileage and the weight savings are nice, if the wieght effect is a good one.

Zimm, PM me for some info.

The Hedgehog
01-12-2009, 07:26 PM
I think that the LSA would be one cool motor for my X.

I say if a BBC fits, and it will, then do it. There is nothing like the sound like a big block and you can always add boost later.

BUIZILLA
01-12-2009, 07:27 PM
at this point, if it was me, and it COULD be done

i'd do it in a New York minute

wouldn't think twice

I think the Critter is a unique boat, and it REQUIRES a unique powerplant

so, what's not to like about it?

1) aluminum block
2) aluminum heads
3) EFI
4) S/C
5) intercooled
6) incredibly lightweight
7) central fuel rail, non return system
8) unmatched power/weight/hp/ci
9) compact size
10) service friendly
11) 30-35% more economical than a BB of same hp level

Donziweasel
01-12-2009, 07:29 PM
Grizz, not looking for a 54 page mess either. I am still leaning towards the big block. Will have prices this week and that will help make my decision.

One thing I like about this engine, is the blower. Blown engines don't fall off due to altitude as much as NA. Might actually see 460-470 hp up here.

I did bring this engine up before when GM first announced it. I was impressed. Funny how I came back to it......:bonk:

Donziweasel
01-12-2009, 07:31 PM
Thanks Jim. I like your thinking. Man, tough call.

98% of 22 owners are probably running stock 502's, 454's and a 425 hp 496. This thing still has 540 hp!

gold-n-rod
01-12-2009, 08:41 PM
I really don't like going into another 54 page thread.

Why not? It's winter and at the rate this winter is going, it won't be long and we'll be arguing over who has the curliest short hairs!!!!!!!!!!!!

BigGrizzly
01-12-2009, 08:41 PM
First if you think you will get the same horse power and torque at the same power curve your dreaming. Lets get something straight first. DW is talking a 540 BB not a wimp. I have played this game. Real example. We make a NA 540 that runs on 89 octane pump gas. Puts out 700HP and between 700 plus pounds of torque. My 502 procharged puts out 698 HP on a good day and right at 700 pounds of torque. Both in a 24 foot python The 540 IS faster and hits harder at lower RPMS. Now this is the sister motor to mine and these are real boats. I can beat the blower motor boat but not the NA 540. I sure would not like to be the first 2,000mi away from the builder/installer. The move back from the Merc trans to the normal B1 drive really is only a true 7 plus inches after akk is said and done. Mrrc trans had the bell included the B1 doesn't and ads maybe 4/5 inches or more. Remember BUIZ DID re power. I am sure he can build a 6.2. What is in his boat, yes he wishes he had put in a 540 or 572. What did Scott put in his? What did Cliff do? How about Brenden. The there is ED. and Last but not least ME. The 496 falls on its face next to a 502 what do you think a 6.2 will do against a 540. Lets get real go back and re read that thread on that motor again. Of course DW isn't a restoration it is a modification, keeping with the original engine doesn't matter. I do see a lot of smoke and mirrors with that 6.2. I see all the opinions and people spending others money. Old Italian American proverb, The evils you know vs. the evils you don't know. If you really want to do something different here are two options. 1) do a O2 sensor, ecu controlled ASA motor with an adjustable computer system.It does already exist. Or one of Poodles favorites A Duramax with an IMCO drive on it, which also does exist. If I had the coin I could go this route without a big push. Well back to reality and have fun, because I know that this thread will get hot, 60 pages here we come:nilly: At this point, the best running and most sensible bolt in with no high expectations was Doc's 22 package, nothing fancy, but is one of the strongest and most reliable units around. An 80mph stocker, you got to love it.

BUIZILLA
01-12-2009, 08:47 PM
hmmmmm :)

Dmax and a TRS..... :shocking:

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

:kingme:

BigGrizzly
01-12-2009, 08:47 PM
I explained that in my first post. DW do you really think that motor is that good. If it were every performance 28 to 35 footer would have it. If you were to get it reality will set in as the new wears off. Everybody loves the thing he just paid for.

handfulz28
01-12-2009, 09:04 PM
First off, I'm a huge fan of doing something different, and if it involves using the most modern technology even better. Don't take my input as totally against the idea, but more along the lines of "there's more to it than that."

Instead of linking to my post on another forum, I shared these thoughts with someone wanting to use H2 6.0L engines (same engine family):
You do realize you need LS-specific exhaust right? Those motors have electronic throttle bodies and a Mass Air Flow sensor; do you plan to use the included PCMs? [Marinized 6.0Ls are converted to speed density] How about fuel supply for the fuel injection? You also might encounter an issue with the bellhousing - from what I understand the Merc stuff doesn't bolt up directly to the LS motors. There's also the issue of forward motor mounts that aren't in the same location. There's also the issue of marinizing the starters and alternators. Different oil filter adapter size for the oil coolers. You'll want a different camshaft. You'll need to rig up a raw water setup - but if you are using Alphas you might be able to get away with that. With aluminum heads, closed-cooling is preferred - yes even in "fresh water" use.

I suggest you call Marine Power (my preference), Indmar or Crusader and see if you can convince someone to give you a list of parts to correctly build the 6.0Ls for marine use. I think you'll find that if cost is your number one factor, rebuilding into 383s will be less expensive.

I still haven't found any details, but Formula rigged a pair of 6.0Ls in a FasTech 292 a few years ago. I wish we could read more about that setup.

The LS series engines are not direct bolt-ins when they're delivered by a GM supplier. About the only thing they might truly be good for is if they're ordered as an "off road, custom build" which would mean they're set up for cable operated throttle bodies and a speed density ECU. Everything else "marine" oriented needs to be added and/or fabricated. The companies I mentioned have already marinized the LS series and I think Marine Power is the only one that "might" actually offer it as a "Mercruiser" replacement. My point being that they would be vendor of choice for the parts you need to bolt a LS-series motor in a boat.

Beyond the practical points, Ray @ Raylar has also thrown his commentary in on this LSA-SC engine being bolted in a boat. I won't quote him, but his opinion is that this motor is not ready to bolt in "as delivered." Sure, there may be a hint of motivation for him to redirect interest towards the Raylar LS series motor (~450ci, over 500hp, nat asp) but I tend to respect his opinion given the research they've done.

Apologies for a partial hijack here, but what is it specifically about the Scorpion that Whipple's SC doesn't get along with? I've got partial recollection of your thread on that topic, but Whipple's 350MPI kit does wonders for that motor in bone stock form. If you actually build the 350 for blower duty that package puts out big numbers (for a small block).

I'll go ahead and throw another idea for you to ponder: instead of the "over the counter" 6.2L LSA that would probably need a tear down to blueprint clearances, see if Whipple would like to be a part of marinizing their LS-series superchargers on a 6.0L. 500+hp (sea level) is probably realistic.

Oof, final thought: I have a hard time believing a BBC would be as much "investment" as the LSA-SC, especially once you add in the proper boat parts needed for it. Perhaps a BBC plus blower? EDIT: Or BBC 540...OK, that might be close to equal in cost, but there's no comparison in power capability...BBC hands down.

Air 22
01-12-2009, 09:07 PM
http://www.gm.com/experience/technology/gmpowertrain/engines/specialized/marine/2009_6200_LSA_Marine.pdf?exist=false
:pimp:

harbormaster
01-12-2009, 09:15 PM
Hi Guyz. I am the builder that John is referring to. We will be adding the accessories to the LSA engine at Victory Marine. I was speaking to my custom marine rep a couple of weeks ago and CMI already has LS headers available.

You can overanalyze the crap out of it but there is no denying that this boat will perform with this engine.

I really do think that these are the wave of the future and we need to embrace this technology. I feel that the lack of BigBlock brute force is made up by the lack of weight and addition of newer technology. These newer engines handle our crappy fuel much better that standard big block brutes.

I have not even mentioned the LS9 engine yet.

The LS9 is new for 2009 and if I am not mistaken is about 640 horsepower.

Then there is the LSX platform.... LSX you say? Look it up.

We are also playing with E85 power performance engines in a Jaguar canopy boat that we are rigging. Did you know that you can easily run 13:1 compression with E85? supposedly the achohol runs cooler and cleaner. (almost racing fuel)

Its feeling like Christmas all over again.:wink:

handfulz28
01-12-2009, 09:17 PM
One more thought on the weight: I think you'll find once you add all the parts necessary to bolt this LSA in a boat, the weight difference diminishes, especially once you use aluminum heads on a BBC.

MOP
01-12-2009, 09:20 PM
I won't get into the BB "vs" SB thing! But I love SB's and I love unique.

zimm17
01-12-2009, 10:24 PM
Well since I'm stuck in Hawaii saving up for a new engine in mid 2011, I'm all ears for the new LS marine motors.

I'm already running premium fuel and have the delivery system set up for EFI. I have no problems drilling new holes for through bolted engine mounts. Exhaust tip location might be an issue. I'm sure merc will address the bolting up to a bravo outdrive issue.

As long as the finshed, full dressed motor comes in under the $12k I'm looking at for a built 502 to handle my whipple, I'm all in.

I'm not concerned with top speed anymore- I hit 86mph GPS with my the whipple on my tired old 454. This hull just isn't made for that and requires absolute great water conditions and to throw caution to the wind to run over 80mph.

I'll be happier having a light weight, reliable, and more efficient engine that pushes to 80mph and sips fuel compared to a 502 or 540. 300lbs less? That's HUGE difference in a 3500 pound boat.

DC18
01-12-2009, 11:08 PM
Hi Guyz. I am the builder that John is referring to. We will be adding the accessories to the LSA engine at Victory Marine. I was speaking to my custom marine rep a couple of weeks ago and CMI already has LS headers available.

You can overanalyze the crap out of it but there is no denying that this boat will perform with this engine.

I really do think that these are the wave of the future and we need to embrace this technology. I feel that the lack of BigBlock brute force is made up by the lack of weight and addition of newer technology. These newer engines handle our crappy fuel much better that standard big block brutes.

I have not even mentioned the LS9 engine yet.

The LS9 is new for 2009 and if I am not mistaken is about 640 horsepower.

Then there is the LSX platform.... LSX you say? Look it up.

We are also playing with E85 power performance engines in a Jaguar canopy boat that we are rigging. Did you know that you can easily run 13:1 compression with E85? supposedly the achohol runs cooler and cleaner. (almost racing fuel)

Its feeling like Christmas all over again.:wink:
World products offers LS series engines in marine trim up to 481 ci and up to 725 hp. not bad for a small block

SilverBack
01-13-2009, 04:49 AM
DW....I think the LSA would be very cool and I may be wrong but if the curves are the same at sea level ...the SC engine would run away from the N/A engine at your altitude. My brother ran a small block with over 1200 hp in his pump gas drag car. You could choose whatever size engine that you wanted but small blocks and viper engines rule in that racing. The small blocks are over 454 ci engines but that is another story. 54 pages..I wonder who they are talking about. If some people on here don't agree with what you are doing they will get out of shape for 54 pages. Then complain because you wasted their time when you didn't do what they say fast enough. This may be the 100th time they have done it and they may see all of the answers but sometimes it is more fun to make up your own mind. I think I remember a 22 classic that started a project about a year ago. He used an engine that 700 HP and is a couple of hundred pounds lighter than a BBC. Oh..BTW it runs like it is on rails and I think the 103 MPH is not too shabby either. Caterpillar or Cummins??? It depends... If you think that every CAT is better than every Cummins..then you just don't know....There are some Cummins that would walk up that little hill in CA a lot faster and using less fuel than some other Cats....I think there are some small blocks that can hold there own. Sometimes no matter how much you know...you need to accept that there are new ways that can work. Everything does not have to be done in a cookie cutter type scenario!! If someone has a different take on things ...there is no reason for hard feelings! There is more than one way to skin a cat!!


Do whatever you think is best!! DW..It is your money and you will have to live with it!!

Donziweasel
01-13-2009, 07:28 AM
Handfulz, this is a marine engine. In reality, a whipple on a 350 is good for maybe 420 hp, on a 6.2L, maybe 440.

Grizz, man, you really hate this engine. I know your saying, "no replacement for displacement". I am not sure that holds up anymore. The main reason you have not seen many is that they only just now became available. I am not sold on it by any means, just thinking.

Now, since this is turning into a thread about small blocks vs. Big blocks, lets look at the history. Mercruiser has been building the 350 FOREVER. What have they done technology wise in the last, lets say, 20 years? Fuel injection and the Thunderbolt V ignition. Most prefer the IV over the V anyway, and they added fuel injection, big deal. To be honest, Mercruiser hasn't done much with anything, period. Drive technology, the same Alpha's and Bravo's (gen I to gen II). As for BBC, the 454 was around since I was born and then to the 502 and finally the 496. Big whoop.

I have heard the relationship between Merc and GM isn't very strong to begin with. Since Merc is sitting on thier fat lazy asses and not doing anything innovative for the last billion years, GM has stepped up to the plate. Good for them. Time for boat engine technology to catch auto technology. Plus, the price for the 6.2 LSA is about the same as a new 350 from Merc.

One last note, if you are looking for an engine, I highly recommend our Harbourmaster over at Victory Marine. Scot has been a pleasure to work with and has been addressing all of my questions and needs. Plus, he is quick to make suggestions on the latest technology. I am not just speaking about the LSA, but, for example, a fuel injection throttle body system that mounts like a Carb. He seems very up to date on the latest technology.

Donziweasel
01-13-2009, 07:39 AM
Was just looking at the LS9 and LSX engines. Holy crap! If GM ever makes a marine version, RIP big blocks. LS9 rated at 638 hp. LSX engine block can be stroked to 510 CID and over 1000 hp. One built to 454 CID with 641 hp NA. Now thats what I am talkin' bout!!!!!! Go GM!!!!!!

handfulz28
01-13-2009, 09:56 AM
Handfulz, this is a marine engine.

Like I said, not against the idea in principle. I wish Scot would enlighten us as to what makes this motor "marine" and what source is offering the marine accessories for it. Is CMI making Raylar's exhaust?

Even Indmar, which probably leads the pack as far as integrating GM's engines for marine use, either has their engines built with different specs, or they tear them down once they're delivered.

I sure do like the torque curve on the LSA SC...early and flat.

Knowing that someone like Scot and Victory Marine are behind this idea, I say go for it. You've only got a few months until the thaw right? :yes:

Donziweasel
01-13-2009, 10:26 AM
GM is marketing this as a Marine engine, designed and for use only in marine applications.

http://www.gm.com/experience/technology/gmpowertrain/engines/specialized/marine/2009_6200_LSA_Marine.pdf

mrfixxall
01-13-2009, 12:55 PM
Was just looking at the LS9 and LSX engines. Holy crap! If GM ever makes a marine version, RIP big blocks. LS9 rated at 638 hp. LSX engine block can be stroked to 510 CID and over 1000 hp. One built to 454 CID with 641 hp NA. Now thats what I am talkin' bout!!!!!! Go GM!!!!!!

Was mentioned by yours truely on the last trend.......now take that ls engine your looking at and change the blower pully to get your hp back and call it a day:wink:

BigGrizzly
01-13-2009, 01:43 PM
Since I knew Harbor master's Victory Marine was doing the work regardless, discussing the engine and which I preferred wouldn't cost anyone any lively hood. First DW It isn't that I don't like the engine, it is the application I don't prefer. As for small block and no substitute for CID, I live in the hot bed of Nascar and drag racing and NOT one of these guys will not agree with me. The new Lsa motor is fine. That car/ throttle body, works great, I have met the original designer. Look close at the engine I posted in the 525efi thread. As for Merc and GM, They have been on the outs for 8 years that I know of. That is when merc went to Mexico to buy cheap big blocks. there was also a money issue between them, my take was merc was wrong. Merc has not done any good R&D for years, especially since the Verado came out. WJ did their big racing motors from scratch not merc. Keith come back to Earth don't bother with the 1200 hp pump gas drag car It is application man application!! That 103 mph 22 was with a bbc and a supercharger. I don't ever remember a small block Donzi that was under 434 cubic inches breaking 90mph on a gps. Horse power is not tricky, only two ways to make it More bangs or bigger bangs. In one oz of fuel there is only so many calories of heat to be had. The more efficient the process the more usable HP is available. The only thing in my BB engine that is GM is the bore ans stroke and water pump(even that has been modified.
The LS engine isn't new its marine engine is new for the over the counter market. It is a good reliable piece. However closed system is a MUST, Remember I worked for an aluminum engine maker for over 24 years and not in the sales division.
Scott I like that your selling these engines. They come from a good heritage. I just think his first discussion with you guys is the better alternative. Remember you know me and I don't blow sunshine up peoples butt. We are looking at a boat with a different hull then modern day classic and a boat that is at least 500lbs heavier then a standard 22 classic. The fact that with the engine he has in it now is on the weak side for that boat.
As for the wipple. Wipple has and had NOTHING to do with that engine. Don't insult that engine with that relationship. SO in Conclusion I am with Hedg I think it would be sooo now in a 18 classic. Just so everybody knows My Criterion handles and rides better loaded then light.
I threw the other options in to be funny is the last post. Lets just limit it to the 540 vs the LSA engines. They LSAs have been racing in cars for years. Not a week goes by that there isn't one in the shop being redone, not be cause of failure but for a freshening up. DW,Sorry for stirring up the pot, but you asked the question.

Lenny
01-13-2009, 02:00 PM
I say the 540 John and get some weight aft... Bigger Bangs...and procharge it...

BigGrizzly
01-13-2009, 02:24 PM
Thanks Lenny, the check is in the mail:wink:

Donziweasel
01-13-2009, 02:50 PM
I am probably going 540. One big reason is familarity. Old tehnology that I know my way around. The LSA is pretty high tech for me. If the 540 breaks, I know how to fix it, if the LSA breaks, no one around here to touch it and Scot is 1500 miles away.

Grizz, you make some good arguements.

Ed Donnelly
01-13-2009, 04:01 PM
John; Now pay attention and listen to your elders

Griz...Criterion...BB......Blown
Ed....Criterion BB......Blown..................:kingme:...Ed

Donziweasel
01-13-2009, 04:51 PM
Now Ed, you know us young fellers are very impulsive and never listen to our elders!:bonk: That is why we make so many damn mistakes all the time. I am slowly learning that there are people in the world who know more than me. I have found at least 2.:bonk: Oh yeah, Boo Boo may know more than me too, so thats 3.:wink:

Ed, if I went BBC, I would always be in you and Grizz's shadows, you guys have put the bar pretty damn high............:bonk:

The price was 9000.00 for the LSA long block. I am sure it would be around 13,000-14000.00 dressed. Interesting concept, but I am not ready to be the test guy on this one. Going with the 540.

Now, that being said and peace being restored, even if only till I finish typing this, when I get my 18 one day, I can tell you right now that the LSA is going into it, period. Wonder if Donzi would sell me a hull with no engine or drive? No Arneson or other experimental stuff, just raw brute 540 hp LSA SB.

I seem to be in a transition period with marine engines. There is a lot of new technology the GM is bringing to the table. If they do end up developing the LS9 or LSX into a 650-700 hp marine engine, you really might start seeing bigger boats, including Donzi, going to small blocks. I think it is a pretty exciting time for performance boating in regards to power. We now have more options than ever before. V-10 Ilmors, Teagues, GM's new line of SB's (including the non SC 6.2 LSA @ 418 hp).

roadtrip se
01-13-2009, 04:58 PM
At this point, the best running and most sensible bolt in with no high expectations was Doc's 22 package, nothing fancy, but is one of the strongest and most reliable units around. An 80mph stocker, you got to love it.

In an effort to take this to sixty pages, let me state something here.

Ted did the first Merc 500 in 2001. I followed in 2002. Donzi did a couple in the same time frame. Dan came along a few years later and did one. George C just did a 525. Dwight is getting ready to do one.

And oh, BTW, Danny's "stocker" is far from it.

Seems to work...

BigGrizzly
01-13-2009, 07:14 PM
Trip there you go again telling the stories. You and maybe Air22 have the only stock HP500 ever installed. If you remember I had one of the first high powered bowriders.

handfulz28
01-15-2009, 10:24 AM
I'd really like to see how these can work in a marine application. I wonder how the price compares to other more widely used aftermarket EFI systems?

http://www.retrotekspeed.com/products/powerjection-i/powerjection-i-systems/

Would 1200cfm feed a 540?

Trueser
01-15-2009, 11:05 AM
DW.
I have a guy that has a couple Hp500's complete with exhaust.

If you are interested I can pursue futher.

BigGrizzly
01-15-2009, 11:10 AM
Handfull, 1200cfm is a little big for a 540 by at least 300 cfm.

handfulz28
01-15-2009, 11:22 AM
Thanks Randy. Since they offer only 750 and 1200 I figured the 750 would be too small for sure. Any thoughts on the setup? The price is a shocker up front, but the concept seems pretty cool especially if you already have a manifold that's working right.

BUIZILLA
01-15-2009, 11:28 AM
any customer feedback?

mjw930
01-15-2009, 05:24 PM
Holly has a couple kits:

http://www.holley.com/types/Marine%20Commander%20950%20Multi-Point%20%20Kits.asp
http://www.holley.com/types/Marine%20Commander%20950%204-Bbl%20Throttle%20Body%20systems.asp

And these guys seem to have done some good stuff:

http://www.affordable-fuel-injection.com/index.php?id=18&title=Marine+Fuel+Injection+Systems

The problem, it's nearly impossible to justify converting from a well dialed in carb into one of these systems considering they are between 3 and 5 times more expensive than a well built carb. When I say well built and dialed in I mean one that's been massaged by one of the premier carb tuners and properly dialed in for your motor. When that's done there's very little motivation to swap them out.

Donziweasel
01-15-2009, 06:45 PM
Trueser, very interested. Please PM me the details.

The Proffesional Products Multi Port is what Scot and I were discussing.:)

BigGrizzly
01-15-2009, 06:49 PM
Since I have played with the Holley, I prefer them. I did remember that the CFM on injected aftermarket systems are rated higher than carb systems. My next motor will be a little different and slightly innovative.

Trueser
01-16-2009, 10:56 AM
PM sent.
Last I heard he had two complete pulls.

Price looked good to me.

Hmmmm 28ZX with twin hp500's

This is the same guy that did the work on Farmertx Critt.

He may also be able to do the swap for you.