Looky....427 Side oiler....enjoy

[Scott Pearson]

Thought some of you old timers would enjoy these....

[Lenny]

Is that for the Hornet ? ( the one you are restoring for someone else, not yours )

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Thought some of you old timers would enjoy these....

Scott,
I have only seen a couple of those in the mid 60s Shelby Cobra replicas. Nice looking engine. Bill

[BigGrizzly]

You got to love the water pump. I really think they are good pictures. Garry, has gotten about 4 over this winter to restore. A couple are original 427 Cobera's. where are they coming from.

[fogducker III]

Most likely a dumb question, but, what does "side oiler" mean...?

[CHACHI]

Side oiler describers the oil passages inside the engine as to the feed for the crank bearings.
The supply was on the "side". Side oilers were the more desireable of the 427's with the 427 "cammer" (single over head cam version) the most desireable. NASCAR disallowed the cammer motor because of the horse power it produced.

The other configuration on the 427, which was also marine was the "center" oiler. This engine has a more conventional oiling system.
Some 427 marine engines were counter rotating in the twin engine setups.

A quick glance a 427 block looks like any other "FE" style block but the 427 had screw in freeze plugs and was a cross bolted block.

Ken

[fogducker III]

Thank you Ken, I guess I am still learning something new every day.........:wink:

[mikev]

Most likely a dumb question, but, what does "side oiler" mean...?

Thanks for asking fogducker, because this dummy who doesn't know squat about fords was wondering as well.

[TXDONZI]

All of the iron there brings big bucks these days!!!!!

[zelatore]

The side oiler's are on the rare side, but I don't think I've ever even seen a cammer in person. Weren't there only something like 50 or 500 of those made? In Ford circles, they're near mythical.

This also goes to support why Chevys got so popular compared to Fords. In the Ford world you've got the 390, 427(s), 428, 429, and 460 in the popular big blocks. And not a lot of interchangeability. The chevy guys on the other hand always seemed to be able to just randomly interchange parts among any big block (396, 427, 454...other - I don't know my Chevys).

Same thing on the small blocks. 260/289/302 had decent interchange, along with some parts with the 351W. But the Boss 302/351C/351M/400M were all out there on their own.

That's probably why I grew up a Ford guy. It would have been just too easy to be a Chevy guy.:bonk:

[WA-LO]

Heres my cammers ones in my 33 coupe the other in a 65 mustang they are
pretty cool but kinda costly. I will get up some pics next week of my
corsicans 427 Tunnelport. Enjoy

[CHACHI]

they are
pretty cool but kinda costly

No truer words have been spoken.

Ken

[mattyboy]

that will look great in the 14 with the exhaust coming straight up thru the hatch then over board

Scott I think it is going to be too much for the alpha you're gonna need an arney

[RedDog]

Heres my cammers ones in my 33 coupe the other in a 65 mustang they are
pretty cool but kinda costly. I will get up some pics next week of my
corsicans 427 Tunnelport. Enjoy

I think John has cornered the market on big block Ford's. Let's see -

Corsican
Hornet
Sportsman X 2
33 Coupe
Mustang

What else?

[gcarter]

Side oiler describers the oil passages inside the engine as to the feed for the crank bearings.
The supply was on the "side". Side oilers were the more desireable of the 427's with the 427 "cammer" (single over head cam version) the most desireable. NASCAR disallowed the cammer motor because of the horse power it produced.

The other configuration on the 427, which was also marine was the "center" oiler. This engine has a more conventional oiling system.
Some 427 marine engines were counter rotating in the twin engine setups.

A quick glance a 427 block looks like any other "FE" style block but the 427 had screw in freeze plugs and was a cross bolted block.

Ken
Good description Ken.
I was just remembering a couple of things from that period.....
I seem to remember the side oiler was an attempt by Ford to go just as far as they could to guarantee good oil supply on left turning Nascar race cars....just going that "extra mile". Apparantly there wasn't any advantage to engines in cars that turned left and right, or boats.
The point about "cammers" was Ford had no intention to produce the engines for general consumption, so NASCAR threatened to make races where the cammers ran "claim" races, where at the end of the race anyone could "claim" an engine for a set price. First Come First Served.
So Ford dropped them.

[CHACHI]

George,thanks for the "politics" of the "cammer". It is really too bad Ford dropped it because they were getting some very impressive horsepower numbers (over 600) at some serious RPM's (over 7000) for the time.


John, exactly how long is the timing chain on that engine?

Ken

[BigGrizzly]

The politics for claiming happened but not before Nascar banned them, which happened then the claiming rule. Noe on the cammers and horsepower. the truth was the 600 ponies was the base line. the engine in good fortmwere upwards of 500 plus cid and could be made to 600. Garry's Dad was telling me some stories, and I guess I looked like I didn't believe him. He put me in his truck and dreve me to his GARAGE. He had restored his old FORD sponsored car with t5he cammer in it, If I told you what else there was there I would get shot. That old man really rocks. BTW I did believe him the first time. BTW my Corsican is a H&M 351 Cleavland. You got to love those engines the sound is sooooo good.

[WA-LO]

Ken the chain is about 6ft Ive never measured one but thats what ive heard.
The one in my 33 I bought years ago up in Lake Tahoe I was there in the
winter skiing and I stopped by sierra boat co. to see a Donzi they had and it
was in there show room. I was hooked so I bought it instead of a boat!! It
was in a 21 gt that a doctor owned and he couldnt sell the boat with the engine. It had a blown head gasket but was all std. bore with low hours. The
one in the mustang came directly from Holman Moody and was never run! I
bought it from a gentalman in poor health.

[falcon]

This is the first time I heard that side oiler had no advantages over a center oiler on car that turn left and right---it makes sense.

But isn't the side oiler a more robust design or have any other advantages to make it more desirable. Most of the 427 Cobras and I think all of the 427 S/C used them and they weren't running left handed ovals.

[Planetwarmer]

Why does the serial tag say 400 4 valve if it is a 427?

In Tulsa, Ok we are lucky enough to have the mid america shelby meet every June. We get to watch the original stuff run at Hallet road course on thurs and fri, and the drag strip on sat. The show and shine is on sun. I saw 2 427 cammers run last year! Th3e owners really run the stuff hard. You name the model, it is there. Old to new.

[MR MAGOO]

A friend of mine has a 427 SOHC "Cammer" sitting on a stand in his basement. He bought it new from the Ford dealer back in 1969 and had it in a flat bottom Hallett for a few years. What 's it worth?

Kurt

[gcarter]

This is the first time I heard that side oiler had no advantages over a center oiler on car that turn left and right---it makes sense.

But isn't the side oiler a more robust design or have any other advantages to make it more desirable. Most of the 427 Cobras and I think all of the 427 S/C used them and they weren't running left handed ovals.
The only thing I can think of, and I have no personal experience, is that the major engine builders of the day, i.e., H&M among others, used nothing but side oiler blocks which made their job easier from an inventory and machining aspect.

[BUIZILLA]

Why does the serial tag say 400 4 valve if it is a 427? the 400 number is the HP rating...

[mattyboy]

that is a correct serial tag yes the 400 refers to the HP rating of the motor

it is a 427 block number 20 of 1967 and is a fresh water cooled v drive motor with standard automobile rotation

a 400 hp 4 bbl carb 10.5 compression and 14 degree timing

not a daytona turbo but would work nicely in the ultimate ;)

[WA-LO]

The only down fall of any 427 FE is the bore oversize is only good to .30 over
and when you find these engines you need to be carefull unless you are
going to sleave the cylinders. Genesis makes a replacment that is a nice
casting you can get a easy 532" engine. Also Shelby has a nice Aluminium
block but its about 5000.00. As far as a cammers worth you know the old
saying. what ever someone is willing to pay. but I think 25,000 is about right
for a nice one.

[BigGrizzly]

Wa-LO, most of the Ford line is that way. People do it but Ford doesn't recommend it. There are some good engine builder that will not do it on some Chevy blocks as well. The Cammer is a different blood line altogether.

[CHACHI]

[quote=falcon;487370

But isn't the side oiler a more robust design or have any other advantages to make it more desirable. Most of the 427 Cobras and I think all of the 427 S/C used them and they weren't running left handed ovals.[/quote]

The 427 block was a high nickle block and due to the way it was casted, they had to located the block from inside the block, rather than outside the block like the rest of the FE line for machining. It was also stress releived after casting. The block also had more "meat" up at the deck portion due to the higher compression ratios it was running. It was a cross bolted block with screw in freeze plugs.

Some of the later '27 blocks were casted with even more nickle and those blocks were given/sold to Holman & Moody.

Ken

[BigGrizzly]

Robust but still not a good for heat dissipation. The high nickel did not help. As for stress relieving it was a poor job and they being directed to H&M, there really wasn't any difference. H&M really did most of them anyway. According to racers involved at the time it was hype. Did you know the flywheel was nodular not forged neither were the cranks. I checked and talking to some old racers we can't beleive that they stayed together as well as they did. I have personally talked to a lot of national contenders on this subject, while I was doing my Clevelands for my Mach1 and Corsican. There are some really cool stories out there.

[Craig S]

W
In Tulsa, Ok we are lucky enough to have the mid america shelby meet every June. We get to watch the original stuff run at Hallet road course on thurs and fri, and the drag strip on sat. The show and shine is on sun. I saw 2 427 cammers run last year! Th3e owners really run the stuff hard. You name the model, it is there. Old to new.

That is an amazing event!!!
I go every year (infact, already have my reservations at the Mariott Southern Hills!).

Btw, the 427 is a hi reving engine due to its short stroke (same as a 390) and large bore. The 428 (as in Cobra Jet fame) is a long stroke engine that is sorta a 60 over 390 block.

[Planetwarmer]

Gee, you think they under rated that motor? It probably has another 100 horsepower!

[WA-LO]

Heres a few pics of the Corsicans 427 Tunnelport fresh off the dyno 615hp.
need a few cosmetics plugwires/HM daul oil filter/cooler etc but its
ready to go in.

[zelatore]

I like whats hiding behind it :) :) :)

What? The Nissan pallet jack?

Or the mystery Crusader?