mods for 525 efi

[show-n-go h2o]

we are trying to figure out how to get more speed out of the ZR, we looked at whipples but have heard some bad stories about tuning and drive problems. i figured you guy's would be the best place to start..
i was talking to a guy locally that said we can have the ecu's tuned and pick up some HP and MPH is this true? is there a "chip" kit that is worth the time and money to bother with?

[The Hedgehog]

That's a tough one. The word I hear is that the 525's are pretty dialed in and it is hard to get much more out of them without going with forced induction. It also has the PCM 555 so none of the ECU guys can really get in.

Eddie Young is doing some whipples on 525's on a Fountain. I think that he is also going into the engine to beef up a few things. I will find out the story on that and report back.

[show-n-go h2o]

That's a tough one. The word I hear is that the 525's are pretty dialed in and it is hard to get much more out of them without going with forced induction. It also has the PCM 555 so none of the ECU guys can really get in.

Eddie Young is doing some whipples on 525's on a Fountain. I think that he is also going into the engine to beef up a few things. I will find out the story on that and report back.

ok thanks.. from what i hear the if we do that it will eat xr drives

[The Hedgehog]

ok thanks.. from what i hear the if we do that it will eat xr drives

No doubt about it.

If you beef it up and don't air it out much you can make it last for a while. I have a friend that ran 750's through a heavy non-step v for years and he was not scared of the sticks. He has a pretty regimented rebuild schedule and replace parts plan. It is a pretty well thought out recipe. I am probably going to it. He just upped the ante to around 1,000 and knows he is now very much on borrowed time.

I guess for that matter, I am too:bonk: That's a good thing about that nice twin scorp setup you have. You should not have too much to worry about in that dept.

[show-n-go h2o]

No doubt about it.

If you beef it up and don't air it out much you can make it last for a while. I have a friend that ran 750's through a heavy non-step v for years and he was not scared of the sticks. He has a pretty regimented rebuild schedule and replace parts plan. It is a pretty well thought out recipe. I am probably going to it. He just upped the ante to around 1,000 and knows he is now very much on borrowed time.

I guess for that matter, I am too:bonk: That's a good thing about that nice twin scorp setup you have. You should not have too much to worry about in that dept.


i have twin 6.2's i wish i would've got the scorp boat cause there's not alot i can do for my 28 to wake it up, im seriously thinking of selling it and just riding with dad on the 38. all last year i only used my boat about 6 times, the rest of the time i spent driving the 38zr. dad doesn't care to drive he just likes hanging out so it's like me owning a 38zr without the payment book. but if he can't make it faster without blowers he is thinking of trading it for an outerlimits and if we do that then my boat is getting traded to cause i will never be on mine.

[BigGrizzly]

First you can work on the 6.2 and get some good results. Next as for the 525 and XR drive it is controlled by the driver. Unfortunately the people that put power in also tend to abuse it. It is kind of like your significant other, you abuse her and she won't be around long. Engines aren't any different then people. As for just wicking up the ECU for big gains it won't happen its a scam. I have been watching it for a long time. As I am typing I am trying to put myself in your position. It depends how fast you want to go and for how long. OK here is what I would do. I would wave the BBC and get a pair of well tuned ASA motors closed cool them. You cam get just shy of 500 durable horsepower in them. In your case I would keep them around 425 to 450 ponies. That is my take on this thread.

[LKSD]

Whipple is the way to go. The ecms alone will only get you a minute ammount of power and hardly any speed if any in comparison.

As far as the drive issue. when ever you add large ammounts of power with anything you make it easier to add stress to the drives. Also a lot of the drive worries are going to depend on you and your driving habits. I have seen Std B1's last with big power if taken care of.

If I were you and I was looking for a large increase in power & speed, whipple is the way to go. If you would like a price on them feel free to gove me a shout.. ;) Jamie / Lakeside

[BigGrizzly]

I am sorry Jamie, But I don't agree with you on that one. Show and go check out all the options. Of course I have a Procharger, and I don't think it is the best either, but free can't be beat. I won't go into who I feel is best because Some feelings may be hurt. Knowing how nice your boat looks as well as your significant other does. Get what is pleasing to your eye, all the rest can be worked out. I have seen some very impressive stuff in the past year. Things have come a long way in a short time. I am starting to wonder when it will end, if ever..

[BUIZILLA]

a 28ZX w/6.2's and wacky paddles would be a badd assssssssssssssss combo.

:pimp:

[show-n-go h2o]

a 28ZX w/6.2's and wacky paddles would be a badd assssssssssssssss combo.

:pimp:


lol the only mod im buying for my 28zx is a nice set of For Sale signs

[LKSD]

I am sorry Jamie, But I don't agree with you on that one. Show and go check out all the options. Of course I have a Procharger, and I don't think it is the best either, but free can't be beat. I won't go into who I feel is best because Some feelings may be hurt. Knowing how nice your boat looks as well as your significant other does. Get what is pleasing to your eye, all the rest can be worked out. I have seen some very impressive stuff in the past year. Things have come a long way in a short time. I am starting to wonder when it will end, if ever..

Thats ok Griz, as we all know there is more than one way to do things sometimes. And some people have their own preferences. I am fine with boosted apps & I am however of the opinion that it makes very good sense at times to do boost. I do however agree that there is nothing wrong NA apps or keeping it that way. It sometimes just on my opinion isnt always the most economical for certain apps when compared with non boosted results. This is all within reason and obviosly would exclude some apps & circumstances.. Again, I am really not biased to boost eventhough it may seem that way (It actually wouldnt be in my best interest as I do a lot of both apps in my shop), just sometimes I feel they make a lot of sense..

;) :shades: Jamie :boat:

[LKSD]

a 28ZX w/6.2's and wacky paddles would be a badd assssssssssssssss combo.
:pimp:
Indeed.. Actually I am doing a 383 custom whipple app now, just not on a Donzi.. I am estimating it to be about 525hp when done. It should definitley be bad a$$ed! :D:nilly::eek::kingme:

[BigGrizzly]

It wasn't the Blower being the problem it is the WIPPLE I was referring to. As a matter of fact I am not a blower fan. Trust me if the blower was not free I wouldn't have it. on the other hand my Son is the blower fanatic. Me I don't even like fuel injection, even if it goes have a place. I have spent too many yrars in the R&D area to discount any form of HP. This is a small winter project a low block 540, ending up with about 875 Hp depending on the day and air density on 89 octaine.

[LKSD]

It wasn't the Blower being the problem it is the WIPPLE I was referring to. As a matter of fact I am not a blower fan. Trust me if the blower was not free I wouldn't have it. on the other hand my Son is the blower fanatic. Me I don't even like fuel injection, even if it goes have a place. I have spent too many yrars in the R&D area to discount any form of HP. This is a small winter project a low block 540, ending up with about 875 Hp depending on the day and air density on 89 octaine.

As I said no problem.. :D I also like all forms of big power & yes call me a techie, I do prefer efi if $$$$ isnt an issue.. lol Lately we have been doing a lot of blower add ons without going too crazy. Mainly as it has been more feisable for most to justify the expense of a well thought out conservative boost maker than the usual larger expense of building a big hp Na engine from scratch.. Especially if they already have a pretty fresh unit.. I really dont have anything against carbs either other than them being a bit more user freindly to the end user as well as the capability of keeping precise on perf applications for most people.. When it comes down to it you & I both know that no matter what one chooses they all have pros & cons, and they all can break.. lol.. So it depends a lot on ones pocket book & preference. :)

On a different note the 540 in your pic looks sweet.. I hope thats not goin' in your Critter!! that would be sick! Jamie / Lakeside :convertib:

[Last Real Texan]

Just boost the 525's and keep it about 5 psi....you will only be lunching drives when you hammer on it....Treat it nice and it will live a long time.

Tex...but I am a fan of boost!:crossfing:

[Air 22]

we are trying to figure out how to get more speed out of the ZR, we looked at whipples but have heard some bad stories about tuning and drive problems. i figured you guy's would be the best place to start..
i was talking to a guy locally that said we can have the ecu's tuned and pick up some HP and MPH is this true? is there a "chip" kit that is worth the time and money to bother with?
Thats easy..wanna go faster..its MO Money...I'm just say'n...:pimp:
Pull the 525's....Replace...with a pair of TCM900EFI's adding 1800HP vs 1050HP should set ya backin the seat.Supercharged EFI has 900 horsepower and 540 cubic inches. This TCM/Whipple EFI blower package is combined with Brodix aluminum heads. Equipped with an exclusive proprietary MEFI4 program. Built to run, built to last :kingme: ...visit teaguecustommarine.com...engines..new drives (IMCO XTREME etc..)would be prudent.:cool:

[The Hedgehog]

Thats easy..wanna go faster..its MO Money...I'm just say'n...:pimp:
Pull the 525's....Replace...with a pair of TCM900EFI's adding 1800HP vs 1050HP should set ya backin the seat.Supercharged EFI has 900 horsepower and 540 cubic inches. This TCM/Whipple EFI blower package is combined with Brodix aluminum heads. Equipped with an exclusive proprietary MEFI4 program. Built to run, built to last :kingme: ...visit teaguecustommarine.com...engines..new drives (IMCO XTREME etc..)would be prudent.:cool:

Have you ever bought a Teague motor? My Young 850 is a 540 that makes 942hp, has Brodix heads, a warranty and a proprietary MEFI4 program. I got to watch it being built and dynoed. It costs a good bit less than a Teague.

Hey, if you want to dream big, get one of these. But you will need #6's

[BigGrizzly]

Thanks Jamie, but it is not going into mine. Its what Garry call his 850. It is one of 79 so far. I have never seen one that was only 850. No offence to anyone But most of the times he builds then they just happen to replace other peoples engines. On a side note this particular one is one of the 3 prettiest engines I have ever seen.

[The Hedgehog]

Thanks Jamie, but it is not going into mine. Its what Garry call his 850. It is one of 79 so far. I have never seen one that was only 850. No offence to anyone But most of the times he builds then they just happen to replace other peoples engines. On a side note this particular one is one of the 3 prettiest engines I have ever seen.

Garry builds a beautiful engine. I would love to see one in person.

[mjw930]

When I hear about beautiful engines I'm always drawn to the stuff Keith Eickert builds.

Many may know that KEPP is no longer Keith Eickert but just another arm of CP Performance.

Keith retained his engine business and it's now separate from the parts group. You can see his handy work here: http://www.kustomengines.net/index.shtml

These engines are not only works of art but mechanically some of the most durable machines built for the power they output. I would put them up against a Teague, Zuhl or Sterling all day long.

http://www.kustomengines.net/images/custom-offshore-engine.jpg
http://www.kustomengines.net/images/custom-offshore-racing.jpg
http://www.kustomengines.net/images/875-hp-offshore-engine-2.jpg

[zelatore]

Pretty stuff doesnt make up for the fact he's an asswhole...

Well, it helps a little. Especially if you know you'll never likely buy any of it and only look at it on the web.

[The Hedgehog]

Pretty stuff doesnt make up for the fact he's an asswhole...

No, and it does not make up for all of the problems my friends have had with his motors.

He should stick to making pretty products not building engines.

[mjw930]

Pretty stuff doesnt make up for the fact he's an asswhole...

No, and it does not make up for all of the problems my friends have had with his motors.
He should stick to making pretty products not building engines.
Hmm, I guess it all depends on what dealings you've had with him. I've only socialized with him but one of my close friends companies has worked with him as both an OEM and sub contractor for well over 10 years. It's been a love/hate relationship at times but they still use his dyno on a weekly basis.

HH, I'm not sure what your friends problems are but Keith has a long history of building championship motors. At one point he was supplying motors to 3 Class 1 race teams in Europe as well as many US teams but that was a lifetime ago. Things most certainly do change. As examples:

A friend has had nothing but problems with 2 600 hp Teague motors. So much so that although they were both almost 100 hp down on power he gave up trying to get Bob to make good and had them redone locally.

A customer of my engine builder has wasted well over $100K on Zuhl motors that my builder is finally repairing and dialing in. The last motor showed up with the same oil filter that was installed when the motor was sent back up to NY after the aborted Jacksonville St. Johns 200 mph attempt (see OSO http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-boating-discussion/177811-46-skater-does-190-congrats-byrdman.html) and was still leaking oil like a sieve, even after another $20,000 freshening and 10 months of "next week".

I guess it's all a crap shoot unless you actually turn your own wrenches.
BTW, I've never bought one of his motors, I don't have that kind of scratch laying around.

[BigGrizzly]

Let me just say Both Keith and Teague have sold some bad and bogus stuff. I like The stuff all these guys make but would never buy a complete engine from them. I will not bash them on the net but for stories at an event is different. Another reason for attending one.

[The Hedgehog]

Let me just say Both Keith and Teague have sold some bad and bogus stuff. I like The stuff all these guys make but would never buy a complete engine from them. I will not bash them on the net but for stories at an event is different. Another reason for attending one.

Thats why I like smaller engine builders. They care about their reputations and customers more.

I have yet to see any of Garry's engines in person but I would bet that his stuff does not have some of the same issues as the guys like Teague etc.

I am sure that Teague and KE have built some nice engines but more production is not better.

[BigGrizzly]

Hedge, You were from the south and know the rep of these guys. Down here durability is a reputation builder, not just speed. You know that all the good guys know each other. Trust me if Keith built the motor it would be right, he just doesn't do it any more. Good help is hard to find. Down here is NASCAR country, only one lap counts and that is the last one. Example, who's car blew apsrt on lap 15 of the Daytona 500 this year? Well nobody cares. I was 35 years old before I found out that a 3 angle valve job with a 0.040" seat with, wasn't bottom of the barrel. I actually saw some guy do a one angle one.

[Lenny]

It wasn't the Blower being the problem it is the WIPPLE I was referring to. As a matter of fact I am not a blower fan. Trust me if the blower was not free I wouldn't have it. on the other hand my Son is the blower fanatic. Me I don't even like fuel injection, even if it goes have a place. I have spent too many yrars in the R&D area to discount any form of HP. This is a small winter project a low block 540, ending up with about 875 Hp depending on the day and air density on 89 octaine.


That must be Garys' shop... :D My question Grizz, is are you cutting the hatch on the Critter come spring ???

[roadtrip se]

Is what this boat needs. Talked to Cooksie at the poker run and he still loves his. Says a bunch, because he runs a lot of hours and the boat is not babied.

If it were me, I would sell or trade the current beast and start looking for a 38ZR with the 700's. You may have to sell low, but who cares if you are buying low too. Pretty sure I remember that you guys are in this one pretty right any way. This is going to put you above 105.

Then, I might throw a ZRC 700NXT in the picture which will put you in the teens. I saw a recent vintage red with 700s for $250 asking, not bad...

Outerlimits are cool and there are deals, but if you get to this neighborhood I would looking be at Cigs, MTIs, Nortechs, and Skaters too. I like the Legacy at the repo house.

I would not mess with the current boat at all. Money lost with all of the deals out there now.

[osur866]

How bought selling the 525's and dropping 710 v-10's in? No blowers and weight savings. Steve

[BigGrizzly]

First, no holes in the hatch of the Criterion ever. A new hatch maybe but I don't cut original stuff up period. I can get the same power and keep it lower and use regular fuel. That engine is just beautiful and has injected carbs not throttle bodies or carb. It is ecu controlled by a prototype Motortron system. I can't even describe how slick it is. It is as good as car systems. The reason for the picture is purely pleasure for the people interested. BTW if you want to use high test(93 octane) it is capable of the 900+ with that blower and some dialing in changes. Nothing against 700 but I have seen some blown sky high. Personal opinion is DRIVER abuse. It is just the expense for fix that bothers me. Of course now we are going to get into the weight factor. Guess how much heavier the 700 exhaust is than the BBC is:wink: Yes it is.:popcorn: