AOTH Requirements...?

[fogducker III]

Reading in some of the other threads I noticed mentioned "Insurance Declarations"........?

Being from Canada, if I go to AOTH am I going to be able to register/sign up without one?

My boat is covered under my house insurance and my trailer is insured as per normal vehicle insurance.........?? Does anybody know for sure what the requirements are? Thanks.

[BUIZILLA]

My boat is covered under my house insurance you *think* you are covered, but probably aren't, you better read again, unless of course your house floats and has an engine... :nilly:

I don't know Canadian liability/comprehensive law, but I can assure you in the States this won't fly...

[fogducker III]

you *think* you are covered, but probably aren't, you better read again, unless of course your house floats and has an engine... :nilly:

I don't know Canadian liability/comprehensive law, but I can assure you in the States this won't fly...


I have checked with my insurance company and my boat IS covered while in the US for the same things they cover up here, theft, accidental damage etc. It is NOT covered for third Party Liability.

So, my question was, am I allowed to run at AOTH?

[BUIZILLA]

I have checked with my insurance company and my boat IS covered while in the US for the same things they cover up here, theft, accidental damage etc. It is NOT covered for third Party Liability.

I dunno about that... you better read your policy again...

what exactly is Third party liability, in a First party accident instance?

NEVER go by what the company tells you, always go by what their policy states in writing. Perhaps Canadian limitations and extensions differ than our's.

I am not bringing a boat to AOTH this year, so I have no dog in this hunt, other than to honor and protect what's been entrusted to me.

I asked a question here for your and everyone's benefit, so don't take it personally.. >> Great Information - SeriousOffshore.com (http://www.seriousoffshore.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3048)

she is very personable and has vast nationwide regulation knowledge and different vessel experience to share

[osur866]

I too don't understand what 3rd party is, what you really need to find out is, if you damage anyone elses property and or any other person will your insurance cover it and if so to what extent, what are the $ limits. Steve

[Last Real Texan]

I have checked with my insurance company and my boat IS covered while in the US for the same things they cover up here, theft, accidental damage etc. It is NOT covered for third Party Liability.

So, my question was, am I allowed to run at AOTH?
Whats up Canadian boat nut?


I would think that if you get a certified letter from you insurer to the AOTH members that do the insurance stuff stating you are covered under said policy I would think that should suffice, However it would even better would to to have the document directly adress this event to really seal the deal, fortunately we have plenty of time to get it all figured out. Look forward to seeing you at the event and that nice Scorpion boat!...


Tex

[fogducker III]

I will try and explain this, but bear with me because I am not overly insurance sauve'.........

Here in Canada you can insure your boat THROUGH your home insurance. It has nothing to do with the house or that policy, it is an additional policy that covers the boat from accidental damage, theft, fire etc. It DOES NOT cover any damage I might do to somebody else's property.

My understanding is that Third Party coverage is for just that, a third person(s) involved in an incident where a claim is made against the first party........if that makes sense? So if I hit another boat and a passanger in that boat is hurt they would make a Third Party claim.....

Bottom line, VERY few insurance companys here in Canada will even touch a performance boat for basic insurance let alone extended coverage........:frown:

From the sounds of the feedback I am getting, I am able to run my boat on Lake Cumberland but not as part of the AOTH gathering........:confused:

[Carl C]

You can run your boat in the USA without any insurance if you are willing to take the risk. I would contact Scott Boldts about joining AOTH.

[fogducker III]

You can run your boat in the USA without any insurance if you are willing to take the risk. I would contact Scott Boldts about joining AOTH.


I agree, I can run my boat anywhere I want without insurance........ just wasn't sure about being part of AOTH without insurance.......:confused:

I will go to the 'horse's mouth" and contact Scott Boldts, thanks.

[gold-n-rod]

Quite frankly, operating a motor vessel (or motor vehicle) without sufficient liability protection is stupid.

You want to protect yourself and your assets from a judgement based on negligence (as defined by the 3 feasances):

1. malfeasance (doing something wrong, misconduct)
2. misfeasance (doing what should be done, but doing it wrong, mistake/error)
3. nonfeasance (not doing something which should be done).

For example. You are on Lake Cumberland in your Donzi. A PWC rider has fallen into the water in front of you.

1. You grin at your passenger, push the throttle down, say, "I've always wanted to get one of these fockers!" and run him over. (malfeasance)
2. You swerve to avoid him, but do so too late and run over him. (misfeasance)
3. You are chatting it up with a passenger, don't see the rider in the water in time to swerve and run over him. (nonfeasance)

Likely, in all cases, your ass would be sued for negligence. Liability insurance would pay (up to the limits of your policy) in the case of 2 and 3...... and maybe 1 if there are no witnesses and your passenger suddenly gets amnesia.

The event organizers want you to prove you have coverage as an attempt to shift liability from them. Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't. Likely, they'd still get sued, but might have some defense because of the waiver.

Note: I am not a lawyer and I don't even play one on television. I do, however, deal with these issues frequently as part of my job.

As I said above, boating without liability insurance is just plain dumb.

[fogducker III]

Quite frankly, operating a motor vessel (or motor vehicle) without sufficient liability protection is stupid.

You want to protect yourself and your assets from a judgement based on negligence (as defined by the 3 feasances):

1. malfeasance (doing something wrong, misconduct)
2. misfeasance (doing what should be done, but doing it wrong, mistake/error)
3. nonfeasance (not doing something which should be done).

For example. You are on Lake Cumberland in your Donzi. A PWC rider has fallen into the water in front of you.

1. You grin at your passenger, push the throttle down, say, "I've always wanted to get one of these fockers!" and run him over. (malfeasance)
2. You swerve to avoid him, but do so too late and run over him. (misfeasance)
3. You are chatting it up with a passenger, don't see the rider in the water in time to swerve and run over him. (nonfeasance)

Likely, in all cases, your ass would be sued for negligence. Liability insurance would pay (up to the limits of your policy) in the case of 2 and 3...... and maybe 1 if there are no witnesses and your passenger suddenly gets amnesia.

The event organizers want you to prove you have coverage as an attempt to shift liability from them. Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't. Likely, they'd still get sued, but might have some defense because of the waiver.

Note: I am not a lawyer and I don't even play one on television. I do, however, deal with these issues frequently as part of my job.

As I said above, boating without liability insurance is just plain dumb.


Points taken and understood, HOWEVER, here in Canada we are not able to sue anybody for anything we want.........I can not sue McDonalds for having coffee to hot when I spill it in my own lap while driving and talking on the cell phone at the same time.........:nilly:

Having said that, IF I am negligent and hurt or kill a person or severly damage property I can be taken to court and assests lost if the court orders, yes, similar to sueing. Or if my actions were illegal then criminal charges come into play. At local boating events here we sign a Waiver which removes the responsibility of my actions from the event organizer.

Correct me if I am wrong but the Canadian legal system is different from the US, and before we get into a pissing match, I am NOT saying either is better, or worse. Just saying they are different.

My question and point of this thread was to find out IF I am allowed to run as part of AOTH without an American "Declaration of Insurance".........? Thanks for all the input.

[DonziJon]

Maybe pick up some kind of "Rider" on your current policy..(You probably Need LIABILITY in the US for AOTH...This will cover You IF you damage someone Else or their Property. Rephrase: You WANT Liability coverage in the US...reguardless weather AOTH requires it.)

When I sailed my boat to Bermuda I got a "Rider" to my normal (Marine) policy that covered me for 30 Days offshore. My normal insurance only covered me for 50 miles offshore. Sometimes you will get a hassle from your agent...because he has no experience and doesn't want to be bothered. John

[fogducker III]

Thanks John, that is an avenue I will look into, I had not heard the term "rider"....except when I went to the Mustang Ranch once.......:eek::wink:

I will check with my house insurance agent and see what she says.

Not sure if you are all aware but here in Canada ALL vehicle insurance is done through the government, except over the last few years you can buy "add ons" to government policies. Other insurance like house, travel etc can be done through private companies.........:)

PS. I amend my above statement, in MOST provinces, vehicle insurance is done through a government agency, here in BC it is ICBC...... the Newfies are way weird........:cool:

[mjw930]

Check out this link: http://www.tcim.ca/library/homeowners-tenants.htm?letter=H#boats

It's from a Canadian insurance company and it specifically indicates liability is covered under an umbrella home owners policy extended to cover your boat.

Here are some other links.

http://www.harbourinsurance.ca/marine.asp?pm=liability
http://www.canadianunderwriter.ca/Issues/ISarticle.asp?id=190111&story_id=41613145016&issue=08012007&PC=&RType=
http://www.amig.com/products/watercraft.html

Based on what I'm seeing your assumption that you don't need liability insurance because you can't be sued in the same manner as you believe we can in the US isn't accurate. I suspect that if liability claims were not possible these Canadian insurance agents wouldn't have a market for their product and your Canadian insurance regulations wouldn't support this kind of insurance but they do. IMHO if you are boating in Canada without personal liability coverage you are risking you and your families financial future every time you put the boat in the water.

[Tony]

The event organizers want you to prove you have coverage as an attempt to shift liability from them. Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't. Likely, they'd still get sued, but might have some defense because of the waiver.



"Smoke on the Water" used to be a top-attended, highly-rated poker run...seriously benefiting the Make-A-Wish foundation. Then a cat driver made a high-speed turn and barrel-rolled at about 80mph, killing himself and his passenger (misfeasance?). Then his family sued everybody, and with lawyer's fees and court costs the event hasn't been held since. Very sad for the promoters, the participants, and, especially, the kids.

:beer:

[fogducker III]

Check out this link: http://www.tcim.ca/library/homeowners-tenants.htm?letter=H#boats

It's from a Canadian insurance company and it specifically indicates liability is covered under an umbrella home owners policy extended to cover your boat.

Here are some other links.

http://www.harbourinsurance.ca/marine.asp?pm=liability
http://www.canadianunderwriter.ca/Issues/ISarticle.asp?id=190111&story_id=41613145016&issue=08012007&PC=&RType=
http://www.amig.com/products/watercraft.html

Based on what I'm seeing your assumption that you don't need liability insurance because you can't be sued in the same manner as you believe we can in the US isn't accurate. I suspect that if liability claims were not possible these Canadian insurance agents wouldn't have a market for their product and your Canadian insurance regulations wouldn't support this kind of insurance but they do. IMHO if you are boating in Canada without personal liability coverage you are risking you and your families financial future every time you put the boat in the water.


Great links, thanks.

I am did not say a person could not be sued in Canada. I just said that it appears to be a lot easier to sue somebody for petty reasons in the US, and here in Canada it is done a little different.

Liability insurance........where does it end? Do I need it when I go skiing or snowmobiling? Do I need it when I go duck hunting, fishing?

Do I need it when I go rock climbing in case I fall on somebody?

I am at the age that I know what I need to insure and when, other than travelling to the US to a boat "race" where the organizers require, or perhaps not, an insurance document.........? THAT was my question, do I need one at AOTH or not..........? Thanks again......

[Lenny]

I will tell you this Jeremy. With your concerns and liability issues I would not take a boat to AOTH. Here, in our POKER RUNS we sign a WAIVER in case the unexpected happens and we have NO right to sue anyone due to the event we are knowingly partaking in..

Also, as you know, once you are involved in a "RACE" or "POKER RUN" all your insurance is void anyway.

I carry Fire/Theft. That is it. If I hit something, I will buy a new drive or bottom or whatever 'cuz I was stupid.

Catching fire or being stolen is something out of my control.

That being said, it is all but impossible to successfully "sue" here in Canada, to any extent, that even remotely approaches the successes our neighbours to the South have.

Leave it at home... :(

[fogducker III]

I will tell you this Jeremy. With your concerns and liability issues I would not take a boat to AOTH. Here, in our POKER RUNS we sign a WAIVER in case the unexpected happens and we have NO right to sue anyone due to the event we are knowingly partaking in..

Also, as you know, once you are involved in a "RACE" or "POKER RUN" all your insurance is void anyway.

I carry Fire/Theft. That is it. If I hit something, I will buy a new drive or bottom or whatever 'cuz I was stupid.

Catching fire or being stolen is something out of my control.

That being said, it is all but impossible to successfully "sue" here in Canada, to any extent, that even remotely approaches the successes our neighbours to the South have.

Leave it at home... :(

Hi Lenny, welcome back, happy new year and all that.

Please READ my posts a little better,

I asked for AOTH requirements and got side tracked on other responses......I have no concern with my ability to operate anything, accidents happen and I understand the consequences, all I was trying to do was find out what the organizer of AOTH required from entrants...........:frown:

Like yourself, I carry theft and fire but I also carry a basic personal accidental coverage.........minimal coverage, but takes the sting out.

I will be taking my boat to AOTH no matter what, I might not LEGALLY be able to run with the group and I will abide by any rules imposed, if I am not allowed to enter, doesn't mean I can't float around and watch.......oh well..........:popcorn:

[penbroke]

... It DOES NOT cover any damage I might do to somebody else's property. ...


As I understand it that is what is needed...


Frank

[fogducker III]

As I understand it that is what is needed...


Frank

Thanks, I got that part, so what does AOTH require? How much do you have to be covered for? Do you need an actual certificate or will a letter do? What type of incident do you have to be covered for? Collision, fire, sinking, running over somebody? This is my point, what exactly is required? Is coverage by a Canadian company alright...?

[SilverBack]

Hi Lenny, welcome back, happy new year and all that.

Please READ my posts a little better,

I asked for AOTH requirements and got side tracked on other responses......I have no concern with my ability to operate anything, accidents happen and I understand the consequences, all I was trying to do was find out what the organizer of AOTH required from entrants...........:frown:

Like yourself, I carry theft and fire but I also carry a basic personal accidental coverage.........minimal coverage, but takes the sting out.

I will be taking my boat to AOTH no matter what, I might not LEGALLY be able to run with the group and I will abide by any rules imposed, if I am not allowed to enter, doesn't mean I can't float around and watch.......oh well..........:popcorn:


You poor...poor...sucker.....you are going to be stuck across the lake with me!!! HAA We need to come up with a name for the event on our side of the lake!! Power posters spring fling or something like that!!!

[osur866]

I'm pretty sure you would not be the first canadian to bring a boat to AOTH, surely there are some other Canadains that can help answer this. Steve

[CHACHI]

If my memory serves me correctly, Glashole (Shea) attended this event last year. Drop him a PM and see how he met the AOTH requirements.


Ken

[boxy]

Jeremy, in Ontario we do not insure through the Govt.
I would also check your home owners policy again. My policy carries a $5,000,000 third party liability rider for anything connected to the main policy.
My boat, when I stiil had it, accidents on my property, etc ... were all covered.

[Lenny]

My boat, when I stiil had it, accidents on my property, etc ... were all covered.

Steve, were they still covered at a "Speed/POKER RUN event?"

[fogducker III]

That is one part that confuses me, even if everybody has a "Declaration" it goes out the window once the run starts right?

I have a message in to the organizers of AOTH, I will just have to wait and see what they say they require.........:crossfing:

[Lenny]

It amazes me that Todd S or Scott Bo have not replied to this in black and white yet so that the rest do not have to "speculate" ...

:confused: :confused: :confused:

[osur866]

Steve, were they still covered at a "Speed/POKER RUN event?"
Can't answer that one, hope so.

[boxy]

Steve, were they still covered at a "Speed/POKER RUN event?"

Lenny, I would have to go back a read it. It was a policy for 19 Regal, I know that guys running bigger performance boats up here can reduce their Insurance Costs by opting out of Poker Runs.

This whole discussion is why we never had a Poker Run or speed event when I ran the 1000 Islands event, and there wil not be either this year.

Like minded boaters will show up at a certain time, and will decide to go on a scenic tour of the area.

There is no speed event or "Poker Run".

[glashole]

you are fine

listen to Boxy

its also a Fun Run not a poker run

bring the boat

[fogducker III]

you are fine

listen to Boxy

its also a Fun Run not a poker run

bring the boat

Thanks, kinda what I was thinking if I was not allowed to "officially" run the event.......:wink:

[boxy]

Jeremy, FWIW I wouldn't get out of bed without some kind of third party liability insurance. If you already have a home owner's policy the additional rider should not be a lot of money.
It's not the person who you injure who is going sue, it is going to be their insurance company......

[roadtrip se]

Jill and I were traveling back to Michigan yesterday, so I am seeing this a little late.

We will post a full list of the safety requirements for running in the AOTH shortly, but let me answer the questions at hand around insurance.

1) Every participant, including passengers, will be requried to sign a formal release document at registration.

2) Every boat entered in the fun run will be expected to produce a copy of their insurance policy declaration page. This needs to show full coverage on the boat, including liability and medical coverage. Typical liability coverage is $300K and up in the states.

One key point, this rally is a FUN RUN, not a race or poker run event. The organized portions of the run will be guided and paced for safety of the participants. Frankly, this is the only way we can keep everybody together and not lose someone to going in the wrong direction or a breakdown any way with the distances that we cover.

Anyone who shows up expecting to participate in the run without fullfilling these requirements will be asked to leave, no questions asked.

[yeller]

Jeremy,

1) Anyone in Canada can sue for anything, just as in the US. The difference is the monetary success rate is not nearly as high.

2) Your third party insurance is the liability insurance they are asking for.

3) Are you SURE you are covered throughout the entire US. I am only covered on the west coast of the US and only to Manitoba in Canada. I tried but could not find anyone who would insure for all of North America.

4) Who is your insurance company? I suspect you saved some money tacking your boat onto your house insurance. I tried to do that with a couple different companies but was unsuccessful.

[fogducker III]

This is starting to get complicated......... I will have to sit down face to face with my insurance agent, see what I have and see what I need to do and how much I have to pay to be covered and meet the requirements of AOTH..............:garfield: I will await the official requirements from the organizers, thanks for the basic info roadtrip........:yes:

Starting to make plans to head north at the border instead of south, towards Harrison and Okanagan lakes..........:cool:

[roadtrip se]

Jeremy, I hate to see you back out of the run, because of insurance requirements, but unfortunately, there really isn't a way around it in today's world.

When we first started doing this "gathering of like minded individuals", it was small and informal. As with any good thing, it has grown into a significant gathering of typically 100+ people.

Stuff can happen and has. One person fell off the dock and hit his head going under in the blink of an eye. Another individual broke their throttle while under way. Minor stuff, but it could have been worse like it has with some of the poker run accidents over the past couple of years. Tony hinted at the absolute litigous mess that an inexperenced driver created at one of the most reputable poker runs in the country, shutting down Smoke on the Water, after millions of dollars in lawsuits and settlements.

If the insurance stuff turns into a hassle for you, take Lenny's lead and fly in this year. He has a handle on finding his way onto the nicest rides during the run every time. You won't regret it.

[fogducker III]

Jeremy, I hate to see you back out of the run, because of insurance requirements, but unfortunately, there really isn't a way around it in today's world.

When we first started doing this "gathering of like minded individuals", it was small and informal. As with any good thing, it has grown into a significant gathering of typically 100+ people.

Stuff can happen and has. One person fell off the dock and hit his head going under in the blink of an eye. Another individual broke their throttle while under way. Minor stuff, but it could have been worse like it has with some of the poker run accidents over the past couple of years. Tony hinted at the absolute litigous mess that an inexperenced driver created at one of the most reputable poker runs in the country, shutting down Smoke on the Water, after millions of dollars in lawsuits and settlements.

If the insurance stuff turns into a hassle for you, take Lenny's lead and fly in this year. He has a handle on finding his way onto the nicest rides during the run every time. You won't regret it.




I totally understand and appreciate you being straight forward.

I agree with the nightmares that can and do happen, we have seen it here, starts as a small group getting together for a days run and turns out a few years later, 40+ boats, people getting pissed faceless and not paying attention and **** happens. I have been in four runs where stuff has happened from a kid getting seriously hurt to an organizer's wife getting splattered in the cockpit of the boat, some avoidable accidents, others, not.........:garfield:

Once I talk to my insurance agent and make sure I am able to get the coverage I need, we WILL be there with my boat...:crossfing:

If I am not able to get the required coverage, so be it, Jacqui and I will hit the local lakes and burn some fuel. If we had the time and $$$ we would fly down and "mooch" a ride in one of the great boats that will be there, but we are not that well off and we actually have to book time off work well ahead of time...........:frown: So having spent all of my allowance on my boat I would rather go somewhere WITH the boat and enjoy it while we can, another problem is we are getting older.......:eek::wink:

I really do hope we are able to make it, I have learnt a great deal from this site, thanks Scott, as well as making friends along the way........:)

Either way, mid May we will be out boating.........:popcorn:

[Donziweasel]

Jeremy, if you are having problems with insurance, I have a solution. Come by on the way to AOTH and pick up my 16 if it has not sold. Then you can have a VERY fast 16 (380 hp) with the right insurance requirements. Just a thought. I can make you a copy of my Insurance Declarations. You or Lenny are more then welcome to take it.

Hell, might even be doing me a favor. Maybe someone there will see how nice it is, how well it runs and buy it.

[Lenny]

Jeremy, if you are having problems with insurance, I have a solution. Come by on the way to AOTH and pick up my 16 if it has not sold. Then you can have a VERY fast 16 (380 hp) with the right insurance requirements. Just a thought. I can make you a copy of my Insurance Declarations. You or Lenny are more then welcome to take it.

Hell, might even be doing me a favor. Maybe someone there will see how nice it is, how well it runs and buy it.

What is the elevation at Cumberland ??? ;) ;) ;)

Might be an opportunity to wring out a few more miles an hour :D

[Donziweasel]

Come on and get it!:wink:

You will need a prop from Grizz, but I bet you could hit 70 +.

I think Cumberland is around 900 ft.

[fogducker III]

Jeremy, if you are having problems with insurance, I have a solution. Come by on the way to AOTH and pick up my 16 if it has not sold. Then you can have a VERY fast 16 (380 hp) with the right insurance requirements. Just a thought. I can make you a copy of my Insurance Declarations. You or Lenny are more then welcome to take it.

Hell, might even be doing me a favor. Maybe someone there will see how nice it is, how well it runs and buy it.


See, this is what I like about this site!:yes:

John, your offer is more than generous, Jacqui and I really do appreciate it. I am going first thing in the morning to the insurance agent and see what they say..........:frown: I might just get back to you on that........

:wink: Unless Lenny feels the need for speed.........:confused::yes:

I will let you know either way ASAP, thanks again man.........

[roadtrip se]

680-685.

[Lenny]

Jeremy, when you talk to your agent, tell him that your boat "cruises" at 50 MPH and is capable of 70+ .

Then talk to me about ANY Liability insurance you think you have... :D

50 is the keyword here. The best Private Insurer I found was on Salt Spring Island, forget the name. He was made available through Pacific Coast Savings.

Insurance on boats capable of 50+ make people run for cover here. :yes:

I just did an online one for s h i t s and giggles Jeremy. Second page, first question asked was, Max Cruising Speed, Next question was, what is the maximum speed of vessel.

I will let you know how this online app turns out

[fogducker III]

Jeremy, when you talk to your agent, tell him that your boat "cruises" at 50 MPH and is capable of 70+ .

Then talk to me about ANY Liability insurance you think you have... :D

50 is the keyword here. The best Private Insurer I found was on Salt Spring Island, forget the name. He was made available through Pacific Coast Savings.

Insurance on boats capable of 50+ make people run for cover here. :yes:

I just did an online one for s h i t s and giggles Jeremy. Second page, first question asked was, Max Cruising Speed, Next question was, what is the maximum speed of vessel.

I will let you know how this online app turns out


But Len, mine "cruises' at 42 and "max" speed is 49..........:boat:

That is with the 12 pitch bronze blade............:wink:

[gcarter]

Just curious, but are US policies good in Cunnuckland?

If they are, that may be a solution.

[gold-n-rod]

Just curious, but are US policies good in Cunnuckland?

If they are, that may be a solution.

Yup, while Cumberland is frozen, saw it up, truck it to Canada, dump it all in a big freaking hole and wait until July when it thaws (or is it August?)!!!! :bonk:

[CHACHI]

They better be, I am there alot.

My agent is from Clayton knows the boat is used on the St Lawrence and never once have I asked. Just figured it was

Jeesh George, another thing to do tomorrow.

Ken

[Lenny]

But Len, mine "cruises' at 42 and "max" speed is 49..........:boat:

That is with the 12 pitch bronze blade............:wink:

So, Jeremy, here is an "initial" reply from the underwriter. We await for more tomorrow but basically confirms what I said. I do not think there is ANY way to get Third Party liability, either as a trailer policy on your home insurance, or a stand alone on a boat, that exceeds 50MPH in Canada...

We'll see.

Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: Quote Request for Len Green


Len,

Thanks for requesting a quote from Harbour Insurance. I have forwarded your request to Reliance Insurance, our brokerage in Vancouver as Harbour Insurance is not licensed in BC. What I can tell you now is that as far as Ontario goes, your vessel's speed exceeds our underwriting authority. It may be different in BC but I trust that Rich copied on this email will confirm.

Regards,



Andy Friyia
Manager
Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network


Lying to them and your boats capabilities will only render you un-insured. In other words, you pay a monthly for nothing when all is said and done...

I would be REAL curious as to whom and what Policy Shea (Glashole) has in Ontario that gives him third party Liability with a 78 MPH Blackhawk... or did you tell them Shea that the boat does 50 ???

[fogducker III]

Just curious, but are US policies good in Cunnuckland?

If they are, that may be a solution.

how would that help george?

[fogducker III]

So, Jeremy, here is an "initial" reply from the underwriter. We await for more tomorrow but basically confirms what I said. I do not think there is ANY way to get Third Party liability, either as a trailer policy on your home insurance, or a stand alone on a boat, that exceeds 50MPH in Canada...

We'll see.

Lying to them and your boats capabilities will only render you un-insured. In other words, you pay a monthly for nothing when all is said and done...

I would be REAL curious as to whom and what Policy Shea has in Ontario that gives him third party Liability with a 78 MPH Blackhawk...

I know where we are going with this Lenny, I tried locally to insure my other boat when taking it "UP-ISLAND" and because of the speed they said, "Nope"........ I was not planning on lying, that was a joke......hence the bronze prop line.......:wink:

[Lenny]

Jeremy, I am ready for that "dinner" :rolleyes: I just got back last night from 76 degrees and clear skies for 10 days, surfing at Newport Beach, "In and Out" protein burgers, basically, "SUMMER" as a kid. It is now snowing so $ucking hard here on the Hill that Deneen got stranded today in the Beemer and had to stay in town, (0 elevation) and I spent the entire day shovelling out "holes" to place vehicles as my driveway is done for about another 2 weeks. :mad:

I would far rather be in Town, over about 3 bottles of fine Red Wine, between chews on a Tenderloin and some King Crab than sitting here typing on this stupid $ucking keyboard :smash:

Ooppps, I'm sorry, is my aggravation with the weather starting to show ??? :nilly::nilly::nilly::yes:

[gcarter]

how would that help george?
If US policies are good (or useful) in Canada, buy one here.
Problem solved!
It would be good for AOTH and at home in the cold Far North.

Or maybe you could buy a US policy for some period of time less than a year, maybe for a month, or a quarter.
Anyway, I pay $400-500/year.

[boxy]

Lenny, try these guys ....

http://www.ogilvy.ca/homepage.asp

Here is their High Performance Marine link ...

http://www.ogilvy.ca/english/html/marine/high_perfomance.asp

The owner used to run a 120 mph Cat in the 1000 Island Poker Run, and they are a PRA sponsor.

[BUIZILLA]

If US policies are good (or useful) in Canada, buy one here. Problem solved! you need a verifiable US street address with a structure on it and a mailbox attached... PO boxes won't fly...

[gcarter]

you need a verifiable US street address with a structure on it and a mailbox attached... PO boxes won't fly...
Jim, I know little about it.
I was thiking about when you take your car to Mexico, you buy Mexican car insurance for the trip.
It's quite an industry.

[DonziJon]

Lets not forget "Loyd's Of London". They will insure anything. Check them for a Liability ONLY policy for a month..or whatever. I checked them in 1979 and they DID quote me for 30 days offshore....in a "Race". It was NOT a rider to a current policy.

I declined their offer because it was pretty expensive. I wanted Total Loss Coverage, not just liability. At that time the cost was more expensive for the One Month offshore than an entire year of coverage from my "regular" INshore insurer.

I did the 1979 race without insurance, (wasn't required) as many of the boats did. In 1981 I got a NEW Agent who actually earned his commission and found an insurer and added a rider to the regular policy for small additional fee..

Loyd's is probably not realistic but it would be fun to look into. John

[boxy]

Jeremy, here is the link to Ogilvy's online quote form.
http://www.ogilvy.ca/english/html/quotes/marine.asp

They do "Canadian Performance Marine" insurance, and they are good at it....

[fogducker III]

Jeremy, here is the link to Ogilvy's online quote form.
http://www.ogilvy.ca/english/html/quotes/marine.asp

They do "Canadian Performance Marine" insurance, and they are good at it....


Thanks, I submitted a request for a quote...........:crossfing:

[CHACHI]

Just curious, but are US policies good in Cunnuckland?

If they are, that may be a solution.
Just hung up the phone with my agent and they said I am covered in Canadian waters and any body of water in the US.

However, if I were to boat for an extended time away from my "home", I would just have to notify the agent of where I would be boating.

Ken

[roadtrip se]

Yup, while Cumberland is frozen, saw it up, truck it to Canada, dump it all in a big freaking hole and wait until July when it thaws (or is it August?)!!!! :bonk:

but I guess we could send it to you guys one quart at a time, if necessary.
Might not want to send the quarts from under the raft-off though....

Sounds like some headway is being made on the insurance debacle. Good news.

Ok Lenny, you pick up DW's 16 and bring it down.

[Lenny]

Ok Lenny, you pick up DW's 16 and bring it down.

I think she's gonna run a "tad" rich with a 4500' drop in elevation, don't you ???

:D

[BUIZILLA]

I think she's gonna run a "tad" rich with a 4500' drop in elevation, don't you ???

:D no, it's gonna run a tad lean... :wink:

[roadtrip se]

I think we will have enough talent in attendance to get that puppy running just fine at 680. Besides, I don't think Jon wants to see it come back to Wyoming any way, so we get it tuned up and send it home with somebody that lives at more normal elevations after the run...

[Donziweasel]

Don't worry, I will have it jetted just right. You just talk to Grizz about the prop. Something around a 23-24 pitch.:wink:

If you mailed a check instead of bringing her back because someone just couldn't live without her, even better.:)

BTW, you could take the Critter, but, she is scheduled for major surgery around then.:)

[yeller]

Thanks, I submitted a request for a quote...........:crossfing:Interested in what they say. Keep us posted.

When I insured my boat the company asked for HP rating and not speed. They covered me based on HP (which surprised me). They now ask for a speed rating but I'm grandfathered now.

I don't know of anyone around here that will cover a boat that exceeds 50mph.

[yeller]

Starting to make plans to head north at the border instead of south, towards Harrison and Okanagan lakes..........:cool:
Make sure you get hold of me if you head this way. I'd definately meet you at Harrison. There's also a couple spots around here that are worth the run if you have time. I like to head up the Fraser river to Pitt Lake. Could also launch in Indian Arm and take a run to the falls. Blueliner keeps his Aronow Ed. around here and would meet up with us in the Arm if he's around.

[SilverBack]

Have you guys tried the Insurance lady on OSO? I don't know if she covers Canadians or not but she does hard to get insurance. I sent here a request for a quote and she said that she could not beat my deal with State Farm. I am on a policy that you give your HP also. When I got done with my engine last month I called up and upped it from 700 to 850 and they didn't blink and eye. They have never asked me about speeds before. It sounds like things are a little more complicated up there!! Good luck!!!

[SilverBack]

I have no idea if she can help but maybe she can help you for the trip to AOTH.

This is her website.

http://www.wakezoneinsurance.com/

[fogducker III]

So I got a response back from Ogilvy & Ogilvy in Toronto..........

They will insure my boat for the following, IF I first get a marine survey and a CPS Certificate and send those to them.

They will cover the boat for $30,000, Personal Effects for $3500 and Protection & Indemnity for $1,000,000. This includes coverage for un-insured & underinsured boaters, Loss of use & additional living expense up to $1500, Wreck removal & accidental pollution coverage, emergency medical coverage to $5000, accidental death $10,000 and a couple of other small items.

Sounds like OK coverage, problem is, they want almost $1500 in premiums...... that does not include the cost of the survey or the CPS course and I would have to tell them the dates and places I would be going in the US to see if they will cover it and for how much additional premium.....

I have emails and calls in to other insurers but I am guessing this will be the norm........:frown:

[Carl C]

Fogducker, that sounds like a real PITA. I don't suppose there will be many Canadians at AOTH. I wonder if I am covered while zigzagging across the border on the Greats? Maybe we will see you here in Michigan at a smaller gathering. I understand where AOTH is coming from but it is too bad that some will be excluded.

[roadtrip se]

I understand where AOTH is coming from but it is too bad that some will be excluded.

Funny thing, several Donzi event organizers, or co-organziers, don't currently own Donzis and manage to put on first class events on a regular basis. Boxy, Matty, and our own Scott Boldts are some names that come to mind.

In the same vein, Jill is currently unemployed, so we are watching the cash. This means the work that needs to be done to our 22 will have to wait. I have promised the SS to Buizilla at AOTH this year. Which means, I may not have a boat to run either.

Somehow, I'll struggle through. Guess I'll just have to jump in Grizzley's Criterion or Ted's Ilmor beast or Hedgies monster 26 or one of the Evil Triplet Blue Motor boats or The Bling King Hotshot Monster, if they will have me. I even have Jerry's dingy as a back-up, if I really need a seat.

Point? There are plenty of seats at any run, always are, even for the organizers... or at least I hope so.

[Lenny]

As a "side note", I have probably been to 10-12 US wide Events (from New York to Key West to Texas to Kentucky) to date since 2000, and I have NEVER had a boat at any of em and have been in the best of the best of 'em and had more fun than I should be entitiled to. :D

"Lucky" ??? , definately, but the point is Jeremy, you can spend $1500-$2000 on Air and Hotel and have as much fun (or more) as anyone else and get to meet some Fabulous people and run in machinery that is unlike your own :yes:

Just keep in mind, when "they" come to "your neck of the woods' be sure to reciprocate and extend the same gratitude.

That looks after the Liability issue and about 5000 miles of towing. (Which in the end would cost you the same or more anyway and a PILE more stress.

Just my opinion... and $.02

Todd hit the nail on the head. ( p.s. Todd, I'll give you $9800 for the 22 )

Lenny :)

[zelatore]

( p.s. Todd, I'll give you $9800 for the 22 )
Todd! Don't do it! He's talking CANADIAN dollars!!!




(I'll give you $9800 US dollars)

[boxy]

So I got a response back from Ogilvy & Ogilvy in Toronto..........

They will insure my boat for the following, IF I first get a marine survey and a CPS Certificate and send those to them.

They will cover the boat for $30,000, Personal Effects for $3500 and Protection & Indemnity for $1,000,000. This includes coverage for un-insured & underinsured boaters, Loss of use & additional living expense up to $1500, Wreck removal & accidental pollution coverage, emergency medical coverage to $5000, accidental death $10,000 and a couple of other small items.

Sounds like OK coverage, problem is, they want almost $1500 in premiums...... that does not include the cost of the survey or the CPS course and I would have to tell them the dates and places I would be going in the US to see if they will cover it and for how much additional premium.....

I have emails and calls in to other insurers but I am guessing this will be the norm........:frown:

Jeremy, this post is not directed at you, but more of a general observatoin.

I just typed out a long response that got lost somewhere...

The essence of it was "It costs money to play above the curve"

$1500 to insure a boat that probably runs faster than 80% of the boats in North America, and thereby insures that your current lifestyle is protected in case something traumatic occurs does not seem unreasonable.

[boxy]

Fogducker, that sounds like a real PITA. I don't suppose there will be many Canadians at AOTH. I wonder if I am covered while zigzagging across the border on the Greats? Maybe we will see you here in Michigan at a smaller gathering. I understand where AOTH is coming from but it is too bad that some will be excluded.

Carl how much liability insurance are you currently carrying on your boat and trailer?

[Carl C]

Carl how much liability insurance are you currently carrying on your boat and trailer? First off I am not critisizing the insurance requirement. It's true that the Donzi club would be sued if an attendee without insurance injures someone. Boxy, I have plenty of insurance. I can't find the declarations page right now but I have plenty of liability coverage and of course full coverage on the boat. A few factors are working to my advantage right now like a good driving record, high credit score, over 50 years old, seasonal boating state, no hurricanes etc. but I only pay $520 per year through Allstate. Boat insurance is affordable in Michigan and I wouldn't be without it.

[fogducker III]

Lets not let this post get out of hand.............I don't want to be mud wrestling anybody, I'd get my ass kicked....:eek:

I AGREE with all of what everybody is saying. I am NOT saying that I should'nt need insurance or would even think of trying to run without insurance or "fudge" the numbers etc.

What I am trying to say is that Jacqui and I are able to afford usually ONE vacation a year in our current situation, having spent a whack of $$$ on this boat, and enjoying boating as much as we do, in OUR minds it would be silly to go on a "boating" holiday without taking our boat.

We were both more than willing and able to drive the distance, paying for fuel, lodging etc and coming to AOTH to enjoy everybodys company and soak in the sights and boats!

Perhaps we should have done our research FIRST. At present it would cost us approx. and extra $2000 on TOP of what we had planned on spending to get to AOTH. Yes, it was pointed out to enjoy these boats you need to understand that it costs money to play above the curve...! Good point, but it does not mean you keep going until you drop off the curve.......:wink:

If we are able to get a managble quote for insurance for AOTH we will be there, if not, we will be upset not being able to attend but we will be boating in OUR boat in some nice Canadian lakes during the time we have booked off work.

As you pointed out Lenny, "returning the favour" is very important, but even if we do not impose on any of the hospitality offered south of the border, our home and boat are open to ANYBODY from the site, just ask DW......:boat: Take care all..........

[roadtrip se]

Either one might get you two a time share... but that's about it.

Listen to Lenny, Jeremey. He speaks from a position of wisdom. Jet in from CA, get lost in Deliverance-ville trying to find the place, acquire mass quantities of beverages for use as bartering exchange for rides, a wallet full of $20's for gas fare, and you are golden.

Perfect boating vacation.

As for the mud, think of it as a cleansing substance.

[fogducker III]

Either one might get you two a time share... but that's about it.

Listen to Lenny, Jeremey. He speaks from a position of wisdom. Jet in from CA, get lost in Deliverance-ville trying to find the place, acquire mass quantities of beverages for use as bartering exchange for rides, a wallet full of $20's for gas fare, and you are golden.

Perfect boating vacation.

As for the mud, think of it as a cleansing substance.


If I see you sitting on the edge of a bridge playing a banjo........I'm gone.......!!!:eek::boggled::toiletpap

[roadtrip se]

as long as you don't ask Lenny for directions from the airport to Jamestown.

As for me, we're easy to find. Make about eighty-five turns coming out of Russell Springs. If you see the trailer park on 1383, you've gone too far, just ask Poodle. Look for the lake house with about fifty heavy duty tow vehicles parked in the woods, a crazy Texan cooking cajun food in the front yard, smokers belching out barbeque smoke on the side, and some Canadian walking around telling everyone what a big deal he and his holdings are (wink, wink), about 100 people with Donzi-logo wear drinking who knows what, and you know that you have arrived at the right place.

At least that is what the place looked like the Thursday night before AOTH last year...

[fogducker III]

as long as you don't ask Lenny for directions from the airport to Jamestown.

As for me, we're easy to find. Make about eighty-five turns coming out of Russell Springs. If you see the trailer park on 1383, you've gone too far, just ask Poodle. Look for the lake house with about fifty heavy duty tow vehicles in the front yard, a crazy Texan cooking cajun food in the front yard, smoker belching out barbeque smoke on the side, and some Canadian walking around telling everyone what a big deal he his holdings are (wink, wink), and you know you have arrived at the right place.

At least that is what the place looked like Thursday night...

You had a Canadian walking around your yard on Thursday night....:shocking:

He better have had a bottle of Crown Royal to barter with........:yes:

Those directions are crystal clear for us back woods guys........:boggled:

[Lenny]

If I see you sitting on the edge of a bridge playing a banjo........I'm gone.......!!!:eek::boggled::toiletpap


You would never know it was him Jeremy as you see that thousnads of times at every corner.

Quick story.

Think "gas station" about 3 miles from Cumberland. A older fella outside actually playing a banjo, :yes: one tooth ( not teeth) , now ask him "how far to Lake Cumberland" ?

...his reply,... "I ain't heard a no Lake cumberland" boy...

Deneen and I drive three miles and meet everyone. :rolleyes:

TRUE story... and it gets far worse... :D

Wouldn't miss it for the world tho . :yes:

[Donziweasel]

Sounds like my Donzi isn't going to be attending. She is sad. She was really looking foward to meeting other Donzi's and making Donzi freinds as she has never met another before. :bonk:

Still available for you or Lenny. :wink:

Jeremy, you can always do Powell with the Scorpion..........

[Lenny]

Sounds like my Donzi isn't going to be attending. She is sad. She was really looking foward to meeting other Donzi's and making Donzi freinds as she has never met another before. ( Is she fixed ? ):bonk:

Still available for you or Lenny. :wink:



Don't count me out John :nilly:
I wouldn't mind being the first to have her in the 70's :D

1700 mile pull from your house tho :eek:

I bet she is sold long before that... :yes:

[boxy]

First off I am not critisizing the insurance requirement. It's true that the Donzi club would be sued if an attendee without insurance injures someone. Boxy, I have plenty of insurance. I can't find the declarations page right now but I have plenty of liability coverage and of course full coverage on the boat. A few factors are working to my advantage right now like a good driving record, high credit score, over 50 years old, seasonal boating state, no hurricanes etc. but I only pay $520 per year through Allstate. Boat insurance is affordable in Michigan and I wouldn't be without it.
Carl, looks like you are covered well, and it sounds like a great rate.

[show-n-go h2o]

First off I am not critisizing the insurance requirement. It's true that the Donzi club would be sued if an attendee without insurance injures someone. Boxy, I have plenty of insurance. I can't find the declarations page right now but I have plenty of liability coverage and of course full coverage on the boat. A few factors are working to my advantage right now like a good driving record, high credit score, over 50 years old, seasonal boating state, no hurricanes etc. but I only pay $520 per year through Allstate. Boat insurance is affordable in Michigan and I wouldn't be without it.

i thought i was getting a steal at $650 per year

[RedDog]

i thought i was getting a steal at $650 per year

I'm at $480 on a 22C - what boat is your 650 on?

[show-n-go h2o]

I'm at $480 on a 22C - what boat is your 650 on?


an 03 28zx

[FISHIN SUCKS]

If it makes a hill o beans, I think i can feel where Jeremy is comin from. While the hospitality is definitely there, and you would be more than welcome to ride with Barbi and I, I would want to have my ride there as well. The photo opportunities you get with your boat are awesome:yes:, self-suffieiency is a plus:boat:, and who doesnt like to show off what you got:cool:? When we have broken at these events:wrench:, we have never had to worry about finding a ride:crossfing:. But it sure is nice to pull up in your pride and joy:shades:

[fogducker III]

If it makes a hill o beans, I think i can feel where Jeremy is comin from. While the hospitality is definitely there, and you would be more than welcome to ride with Barbi and I, I would want to have my ride there as well. The photo opportunities you get with your boat are awesome:yes:, self-suffieiency is a plus:boat:, and who doesnt like to show off what you got:cool:? When we have broken at these events:wrench:, we have never had to worry about finding a ride:crossfing:. But it sure is nice to pull up in your pride and joy:shades:


Thanks, I appreciate that.........and you hit the nail on the head.......now I just have to make sure I sort out the paperwork crap and get our asses down there.......:convertib::boat:

[gero1]

just bring yer bout!!!!!! i'll run wit ya all day!!!!! we might end up in summer set but we'll get we'r we are going sooner or later

[Team Jefe]

just bring yer bout!!!!!! i'll run wit ya all day!!!!! we might end up in summer set but we'll get we'r we are going sooner or later

Spoken like a True Maverick Bobby Jack.

Jer - I generally have room on the Revenge for folks (I've never had a Canuck onboard? Lenny? Boxy??? no I don't think so)....and there are many more as well. Rides will not be a problem....but I understand having your own ride.

One upside to flying in, you can ride on many differnet donzi's and get to appreciate the full line. Did that at AOTH last year with Andre and Truser on the 28ZX.....LOVE 'EM, LOVE 'EM, LOVE 'EM. plus I got to go Fountain Killin' with the good Doctor which was a BLAST!!!!!! and exploring to find lee's ford with the farmer....crusing up a box canyon with Mark Horn is a real trip.

[roadtrip se]

A few of you have quietly let us know how difficult and expensive insuring the older Donzis can be whether they are in the States or Canada.

The MWDC is looking for a minimum of an existing liability policy rider on all boats that run in the organized portions of the run at AOTH.

Hope this helps get folks to bring out the classic of the Classics!

[Madcow]

when I took my "great lakes" sonic to Bimini a coule hears ago I thought my insurance agent was going to have a corinary. It was a BIG ordeal to make sure I was covered, nd in the end it cost me more for insurance tnan it cost me for gas and a dock at the Bimini Sands.