K-PLANES..TRIM TABS...Who makes the longest ones??

[SilverBack]

Who has the longest trim tabs and what is the model number????

[The Hedgehog]

I dunno. I talked to a guy in England with a 26ZX. He has some 30 inch SS tabs made. I have seen some tabs that looked like they are at least 40 inches on ski race boats.

BTW, the guy in England has yet to break 90 mph! He is fooling around with boxes, x dim and all. He has not tried many props though. Chasing his tail.

Get some 380's and be done

[SilverBack]

I didn't realize that the guy that you talk to over there had not broken 90 yet..He has been at it a while too. I am sure that I will go with 380's. Have you got your on yet or is that going to be a spring project? I am going to turn Cal-Man loose and let him get this thing dialed in!!

[BigGrizzly]

Harbour has the biggest dang flippers I have ever seen. Bigger isn't always better.

[BlownCrewCab]

Unless you need them to climb back in the boat I wouldn't go any bigger than a 380 (aren't they like 18"-20" long) More than enough..even if you had to drag a tab to run stable and fast, dragging a bigger tab will just slow you down. ultimatly youd like your boat set up where you can haul the mail without tabs (or very little), and use tabs to correct for different water conditions & wind, you don't want to have to rely on them too much.

[Dr. Dan]

:popcorn: I believe Poodle and Todd call them Speed Scrubbers...hell if Rooster Boy has any claim with the Drive Showers...than seriously long tabs are gonna bring ya back down with the Heathens in the 80's ... oh the humility.

Can anyone say "exceeding the Hulls Design Speed?"

Good Luck Keith!

Anonymous :wink:

[Air 22]

http://www.danamarineproducts.com/ProductGroupCats.cfm?group_id=15&CFID=300999&CFTOKEN=2990

:popcorn:

[SilverBack]

I wonder why these wouldn't be better than or just as good as 380s???


http://www.danamarineproducts.com/ProductDetails.cfm?group_id=15&catid=19&productid=124&CFID=300999&CFTOKEN=2990


I had looked at those AIR!!!


Doc..Thanks!!! That would be true but the out of control is why the boat is only at 90.2...not the out of power...If the trim tabs help keep the boat under control and then you can add power..you should be faster not slower!! We can always find more power anyway!! I still have that 698 short block laying around!!!:popcorn:

[SilverBack]

HH...I don't think that they realize that we rated our horsepower at 5400 rpms. If we let those big dogs hunt on up to 6000 to 6100 we are scaring the crap out of 1,000 hp!! The HP just keeps going up through the rpm band!! There is no HP peak with those M-3's huffing and puffing!!

Yes..I think that training wheels are going to have to help!!


I think unless Mark tells me.....NO .... that I am going to go with the Dana HP 1100 tabs though.:pimp:

[SilverBack]

So..do I mount them east coast or west coast style??? That is the next question!! I think that I like the west coast better!!



What do you guys think?? Level with the water or level with the bottom of the boat??


Hedge since you loved my swim platform idea and my open bow idea....how about some active suspension hydrofoils????

I know that Gizz loves the Arneson Rocker plates!!

[roadtrip se]

Let me qualify what Danny quoted me as sayin... I don't think big tabs are remotely necessary on a Classic 22 unless it is a BHLE. Especially, since the mounting position is so conservative, they tend to grab, and the longer they are, the MORE they tend to grab, and scrub speed.

Now as for the bigger boats. I have run over 100 in a big block twin 32 with 280's. It didn't need anything bigger. When I tried the longer tabs, all they did was grab and scrub speed. Sound familair? Any handling problems I had with this boat we addressed through rigging and set-up, not a big tab band-aid. It was amazing how the boat settled down once we got the drives cambered properly, the right props, the lowers worked with nosecones, plugging the lower water pickups, sharpening the front portion of the skegs, some aft bottom work, and about fifty other adjustments, before we even thought about tabs.

So obviously, I am not a fan of long tabs to try and make up for handling problems or running out of hull at insane speeds. I have experienced the additonal problems that they cause and think that handling problems should be addressed other ways, instead of introducing a whole new set of problems with a set of tabs which shouldn't be in the water at speed any way.

Now, all of this being said, Phil Lipschutz seems to be a big fan of the 380s on the 20's, but again, we are talking about a BH set-up. I certainly don't like the way they create a bounce at midrange speeds on these boats, but I guess they must do something for these boats.

To each their own, I guess.

[The Hedgehog]

Let me qualify what Danny quoted me as sayin... I don't think big tabs are remotely necessary on a Classic 22 unless it is a BHLE. Especially, since the mounting position is so conservative, they tend to grab, and the longer they are, the MORE they tend to grab, and scrub speed.
Now as for the bigger boats. I have run over 100 in a big block twin 32 with 280's. It didn't need anything bigger. When I tried the longer tabs, all they did was grab and scrub speed. Sound familair?
So obviously, I am not a fan of long tabs to try and make up for handling problems or running out of hull at insane speeds. I have experienced the additonal problems that they cause and think that handling problems should be addressed other ways, instead of introducing a whole new set of problems with a set of tabs.
Now, all of this being said, Phil Lipschutz seems to be a big fan of the 380s on the 20's, but again, we are talking about a BH set-up. I certainly don't like the way they create a bounce at midrange speeds on these boats, but I guess they must do something for these boats.
To each their own, I guess.

I think that you have some great points. Some tend to stick huge tabs on little boats and all they do is hurt. Hell, I think that some stick them on because they look important.

I do know that in the case of big single step hull ZX's, bigger tabs help settle them down at 90mph. I have seen that in Tex's first hand.

Each situation is different. That is why I did not go stick some monster tabs on the 26 when I was testing it. Then I rode in Tex's at high speed and bought some 280's

[VetteLT193]

...
Now, all of this being said, Phil Lipschutz seems to be a big fan of the 380s on the 20's, but again, we are talking about a BH set-up. I certainly don't like the way they create a bounce at midrange speeds on these boats, but I guess they must do something for these boats.
To each their own, I guess.

The ones from Lipship that I've seen also have extension boxes. If the 20' cig runs anything like the Minx it's a level flying boat compared to the 22's and other performance boats I've run. I have to take an educated guess that by the time they are boxed and really running hot the tabs help keep everything pointed in the right direction at speed.

[Dr. Dan]

:popcorn:Well - with all this rationalization for "Big Tabs" I am hopeful you all are well insured and that ya bring your Declaration Sheet with you to Kentucky....cuz when ya ride your hull way beyond its design limits your gonna need good insurance and an awesome lawyer.

Be Safe and Be Smart... you guys make me nervous....for more reasons than I will go into here.

I will say this.... there is a reason George Desmond - bowed out on Top... he made the right choice. Today he is alive and a living legend, not another statistic.

Realize that there are alot of other people around you as spectators, boaters and family and friends that could care less how fast you run an over priced bloated hull with a Brand Name on it. Fact is its your own limits and goals...no one elses. Sometimes you need to step back and be happy in life with who you are, we all strive to be better...more fit, and all the trimmings that go with a successful life and career. But when its all said and done... we all want ya here! Life is about the moments you share and memories you make...contrary to how we all are raised its not about the size of your Bank Account...it don't mean Jack when you're dead.

Be Careful.... Have Fun and use good judgement... its worked for me! Now I am on round two and I am making my own fine tuning adjustments in my life.

I'll let ya know how that works out for me! :wavey:

Doc of Unabashed Commentary :angel:

[SilverBack]

:popcorn:Well - with all this rationalization for "Big Tabs" I am hopeful you all are well insured and that ya bring your Declaration Sheet with you to Kentucky....cuz when ya ride your hull way beyond its design limits your gonna need good insurance and an awesome lawyer.

Be Safe and Be Smart... you guys make me nervous....for more reasons than I will go into here.

I will say this.... there is a reason George Desmond - bowed out on Top... he made the right choice. Today he is alive and a living legend, not another statistic.

Realize that there are alot of other people around you as spectators, boaters and family and friends that could care less how fast you run an over priced bloated hull with a Brand Name on it. Fact is its your own limits and goals...no one elses. Sometimes you need to step back and be happy in life with who you are, we all strive to be better...more fit, and all the trimmings that go with a successful life and career. But when its all said and done... we all want ya here! Life is about the moments you share and memories you make...contrary to how we all are raised its not about the size of your Bank Account...it don't mean Jack when you're dead.

Be Careful.... Have Fun and use good judgement... its worked for me! Now I am on round two and I am making my own fine tuning adjustments in my life.

I'll let ya know how that works out for me! :wavey:

Doc of Unabashed Commentary :angel:


Doc....I KNOW that you did not wonder over here on my little ...big tab thread and talk about YOU and what YOU think and what YOU hope for!!!!!:popcorn:

Just kidding.:wink:.I could not resist!! I am glad to see you posting over here on one of the DARK SIDE threads...even if it was only to save us from ourselves and to make sure that we have our declarations with us. I hate to say it but I guess that I can since I am in the "safe zone":hijack:....there will be bigger problems than us at Kentucky this year. I am not even too sure that I am going but there. However there will be a lot of really fast boats that will be on the lake that weekend. I know of a couple of 160 MPH cats that will be buzzing around..race boats...drunken spectator boats there for the race. There should be plenty of wakes for you guys to jump with all of the traffic!!

Anyway..Tex has been there and done that and proven that on the hulls that we are talking about there is no doubt that the big tabs work and they must not scrub off too much speed. He is doing somewhere right around 95 mph. Oh..I should say was doing around 95 MPH..there is no telling how fast he will be going after he puts 1100 to 1200 HP in that thing this winter!! Hedge and I are mere intermediate ZX singles. Tex is the one that is pushing the envelope!! And yes...he has mastered the 95 MPH handling. His boat is very much in control at 90 MPH. Now he will have to settle it down at 105 or 110 MPH!!!

[BigGrizzly]

First thing in tabs is the set up, not just the size. If your boat needs big tabs get another boat:shocking: Vett the BH drives have nothing to do with it, Phil runs that setup on all his boats regardless of drive. the one with the TRS was set up the same way. Keith bigger is not better. It all has to do with the hull and length. Most throttle jockeys over tab their boats. To you realize how much speed a misplaced or too big a tab takes off of speed? Like Doc says, Geeo pulled out when he did for that reason and he has a family. One of the many good things about George is that he is not stupid. That boat was not built and then went over 100. It was over 5 years in the making. We had a talk about how long it took to learn how to drive it. Trust me he has lightning reflexes and 20-10 eye sight, and he DOES know how to drive.
Keith, At this point leave the dam boat alone. Learn to drive what you have. I am hearing all the suggestions and most come from people who never have driven a boat like yours or that fast. This includes the sales people who sell them. Yes I am going to get new tabs, not because I need them, but Stainless Marine sells What I want and theirs are neat looking. I almost never use tabs over 30 or 40 mph. Get home and we can go out and make the oil companies happy.

[roadtrip se]

:popcorn:Well - with all this rationalization for "Big Tabs" I am hopeful you all are well insured and that ya bring your Declaration Sheet with you to Kentucky....cuz when ya ride your hull way beyond its design limits your gonna need good insurance and an awesome lawyer.
Be Safe and Be Smart... you guys make me nervous....for more reasons than I will go into here.
I will say this.... there is a reason George Desmond - bowed out on Top... he made the right choice. Today he is alive and a living legend, not another statistic.
Realize that there are alot of other people around you as spectators, boaters and family and friends that could care less how fast you run an over priced bloated hull with a Brand Name on it. Fact is its your own limits and goals...no one elses. Sometimes you need to step back and be happy in life with who you are, we all strive to be better...more fit, and all the trimmings that go with a successful life and career. But when its all said and done... we all want ya here! Life is about the moments you share and memories you make...contrary to how we all are raised its not about the size of your Bank Account...it don't mean Jack when you're dead.
Be Careful.... Have Fun and use good judgement... its worked for me! Now I am on round two and I am making my own fine tuning adjustments in my life.
I'll let ya know how that works out for me! :wavey:
Doc of Unabashed Commentary :angel:

So, there are a knowledagable few here that are saying the same thing, if you need a bunch of tab to control a boat then you have bigger problems to worry about.

As for what Danny said, I share his presepctive, but for a slightly different reason. Simply put, two well-publicized poker run incidents that I had the unfortunate luck to witness. Smoke on the Water a few years back and Lake Cumberland last fall.

I am guilty as charged of stirring the pot with the rest here with a generous helping of trash talk and instigation. It generates buzz and anticipation for our gatherings as well as skunkwerks projects across the country during this time of the year. BUT, after seeing the results of two very brutal and avoidable accidents at poker runs, I dread the day something like this could occur at one of our runs.

In regards to the Awakening, we are doing everything possible to keep things safe with insurance, life jackets, lanyards, and sobriety during the organized portions of the runs, being a manadated requirement, not an option.

Simply put, we want everybody to come back to the docks in one piece and plan on making a return trip every year after. Hot dogs that endanger other's safety are not going to be tolerated and that includes running too fast for the conditions or the overall speed of the group they are running with. This isn't really what the run is all about any way.

Now back to the over-tabbing your boat conversation....

[The Hedgehog]

So, there are a knowledagable few here that are saying the same thing, if you need a bunch of tab to control a boat then you have bigger problems to worry about.
As for what Danny said, I share his presepctive, but for a slightly different reason. Simply put, two well-publicized poker run incidents that I had the unfortunate luck to witness. Smoke on the Water a few years back and Lake Cumberland last fall.
I am guilty as charged of stirring the pot with the rest here with a generous helping of trash talk and instigation. It generates buzz and anticipation for our gatherings as well as skunkwerks projects across the country during this time of the year. BUT, after seeing the results of two very brutal and avoidable accidents at poker runs, I dread the day something like this could occur at one of our runs.
In regards to the Awakening, we are doing everything possible to keep things safe with insurance, life jackets, lanyards, and sobriety during the organized portions of the runs, being a manadated requirement, not an option.
Simply put, we want everybody to come back to the docks in one piece and plan on making a return trip every year after. Hot dogs that endanger other's safety are not going to be tolerated and that includes running too fast for the conditions or the overall speed of the group they are running with. This isn't really what the run is all about any way.
Now back to the over-tabbing your boat conversation....

Very good points and I do take them to heart. Especially the part about the jackets, lanyards, sobriety and other safety measures at AOTH. I would consider those mandatory.

I doubt that anyone that has seen me drive would accuse me of being careless or hotdogging. That is why I save much over 80 for special occasions. If conditions are not good, I don't get on it. Period. Trust me, I have WAY too much to lose for being stupid.

Now as far as the tab discussion...you can't take principals that apply to 500-700 hp 22 foot boats and apply them to 26 foot boats that are pushing 1,000 hp through a single. Look at ANY of the big single ski race engine boats that are set up by folks far more talented than us and you will see BIG tabs.

All I can say about big single ZX's is what I know from experience. I respect what Griz and the others are saying more than most know. I will also repeat one thing that Griz says that make the most sense and that is that all boat are different and should be dialed in accordingly. I am hearing a bunch of noise from people that have not driven a ZX with BIG power. As far as I can tell the only folks on this site that have done that are me and Tex. Period. Keith will do it soon and should wait to make his decision on the tabs.

I waited to see how mine would react, then drove Tex's and reached the conclusion that at least 280's are a min. Tex uses 380's and does not trip over them. His boat settles down better, does not scrub speed or chine walk. I dare one person to explain why his 380's are a bad idea. Are they mandatory? No, but they do help.

I wish you guys would quit thinking that Tex and I are stupid or have some sort of a death wish. We are not doing anything different than the Geo that everyone here idolizes. We are gradually upping the ante and seeing what it is like. Hell, I have not even busted 100 yet in a 26 foot boat and folks are suggesting I up my life insurance policy. Geo was doing 130 in an 18 footer and I did not hear much about the dangers of basically riding on a little piece of transom and some rocker plates.

[BigGrizzly]

When Keith post something the trash talk brings up discussions then Keith buys it. With all this talk he is talking about staying someplace else, or is a fraid to come at all for fear of getting lost. People don't realize that most boats can't go faster then 75 mph. Most people do not realize this is NOT the Miami to Nassau run. If you out run the pack you get lost like last year. You can't blame it on Jill. all the macho's wanted to beat the girl in the Scorpion. BTW I had finished lunch before the lost boys got back.

[The Hedgehog]

One more thing, if I wanted bragging rights I would have already busted 100 by now. I am gradually running faster but have not done it because it did not feel right. When the time comes and I am comfortable, it will happen. I don't have a schedule or am trying to prove a point. Baby steps and learn along the way.

Rant over, time to get back to the fun stuff.

[BigGrizzly]

Amen, There ar old speedsters and there are Bold speedstere, but there are NO old bold speedsters

[Last Real Texan]

Doc....I KNOW that you did not wonder over here on my little ...big tab thread and talk about YOU and what YOU think and what YOU hope for!!!!!:popcorn:

Just kidding.:wink:.I could not resist!! I am glad to see you posting over here on one of the DARK SIDE threads...even if it was only to save us from ourselves and to make sure that we have our declarations with us. I hate to say it but I guess that I can since I am in the "safe zone":hijack:....there will be bigger problems than us at Kentucky this year. I am not even too sure that I am going but there. However there will be a lot of really fast boats that will be on the lake that weekend. I know of a couple of 160 MPH cats that will be buzzing around..race boats...drunken spectator boats there for the race. There should be plenty of wakes for you guys to jump with all of the traffic!!

Anyway..Tex has been there and done that and proven that on the hulls that we are talking about there is no doubt that the big tabs work and they must not scrub off too much speed. He is doing somewhere right around 95 mph. Oh..I should say was doing around 95 MPH..there is no telling how fast he will be going after he puts 1100 to 1200 HP in that thing this winter!! Hedge and I are mere intermediate ZX singles. Tex is the one that is pushing the envelope!! And yes...he has mastered the 95 MPH handling. His boat is very much in control at 90 MPH. Now he will have to settle it down at 105 or 110 MPH!!!
92 MPH GPS...thats it. nothing more...that is all she has at this point, and have I mastered it....no. As of now HH is the king:kingme: of the block and I see him staying there for a really long time.
My boat hanldes well at 90 but do I want to run it here very long? no, too much lake traffic and not enough water.....it is just not practical. The big motor is really just for shiggles and gitts.....1100 should push it well ever 100 but will the drive last...probabaly not.
Tex

[Last Real Texan]

:popcorn:Well - with all this rationalization for "Big Tabs" I am hopeful you all are well insured and that ya bring your Declaration Sheet with you to Kentucky....cuz when ya ride your hull way beyond its design limits your gonna need good insurance and an awesome lawyer.
Be Safe and Be Smart... you guys make me nervous....for more reasons than I will go into here.
I will say this.... there is a reason George Desmond - bowed out on Top... he made the right choice. Today he is alive and a living legend, not another statistic.
Realize that there are alot of other people around you as spectators, boaters and family and friends that could care less how fast you run an over priced bloated hull with a Brand Name on it. Fact is its your own limits and goals...no one elses. Sometimes you need to step back and be happy in life with who you are, we all strive to be better...more fit, and all the trimmings that go with a successful life and career. But when its all said and done... we all want ya here! Life is about the moments you share and memories you make...contrary to how we all are raised its not about the size of your Bank Account...it don't mean Jack when you're dead.
Be Careful.... Have Fun and use good judgement... its worked for me! Now I am on round two and I am making my own fine tuning adjustments in my life.
I'll let ya know how that works out for me! :wavey:
Doc of Unabashed Commentary :angel:
I am a safe boater, I only run fast when conditions allow, a crowded lake no way, but if there is a nice long stretch with minimal traffic,hammer down....driven all types and all speeds well, everything from 13 footers to 60 plus footers...it is in my blood and Have the experience to go with it. Oh and I will bring my Insurance policy Declarations because it is a good thing to do and I would be a fool to not have them with me. I look forward to the event and running with you all, gunnel to gunnel with the ones who know what they are doing and at a good distance away from the rookies...Can't we all get along....?


Tex

[Dr. Dan]

:doh:I wish you guys would quit thinking that Tex and I are stupid or have some sort of a death wish. We are not doing anything different than the Geo that everyone here idolizes. We are gradually upping the ante and seeing what it is like. Hell, I have not even busted 100 yet in a 26 foot boat and folks are suggesting I up my life insurance policy. Geo was doing 130 in an 18 footer and I did not hear much about the dangers of basically riding on a little piece of transom and some rocker plates.
__________________

Uh Hedge in all due respect.... I know Geo and I have met most, not all of the consistent Event Attendees and not anyone or yourself can hold a candle to George Desmond. In character, ability or just plain an honest man and all around self made man...I mean that outside of the Donzi community as well. So for what its worth... lets really not compare over powered ZX's to an Engineering Project that was piloted by a skilled and experienced Parachute Life Jacket wearing owner and has been featured on the Arneson website for years.

Trust me its like comparing yourself to Mario Andretti or pick your own legend or hero... people that know Geo understand what I am talking about. Generous and kind and not an ounce of ego. You guys got more ego in one post then Geo ever showed when he was active here.

Keep dreaming... heros in your own minds... enjoy yourself...

Doc of Sidelined Entertainment:popcorn:

[SilverBack]

Hedge is right!!! His engine builder tuner told me last spring that he has the power to break 100 at any time. He has not done it yet..that should tell you something!! He is being very cautious. I had a guy drive my boat that has driven everything from a flat bottom aluminum boat to a unlimited Hydro. He thinks the thing needs some tabs.


I love Donzi's and I love this website but if I think the boat is unsafe when we get done I will be putting all of my goodies in a cat hull.

[SilverBack]

:doh:I wish you guys would quit thinking that Tex and I are stupid or have some sort of a death wish. We are not doing anything different than the Geo that everyone here idolizes. We are gradually upping the ante and seeing what it is like. Hell, I have not even busted 100 yet in a 26 foot boat and folks are suggesting I up my life insurance policy. Geo was doing 130 in an 18 footer and I did not hear much about the dangers of basically riding on a little piece of transom and some rocker plates.
__________________

Uh Hedge in all due respect.... I know Geo and I have met most, not all of the consistent Event Attendees and not anyone or yourself can hold a candle to George Desmond. In character, ability or just plain an honest man and all around self made man...I mean that outside of the Donzi community as well. So for what its worth... lets really not compare over powered ZX's to an Engineering Project that was piloted by a skilled and experienced Parachute Life Jacket wearing owner and has been featured on the Arneson website for years.

Trust me its like comparing yourself to Mario Andretti or pick your own legend or hero... people that know Geo understand what I am talking about. Generous and kind and not an ounce of ego. You guys got more ego in one post then Geo ever showed when he was active here.

Keep dreaming... heros in your own minds... enjoy yourself...

Doc of Sidelined Entertainment:popcorn:


WOW....I hate that we have gotten to this point.. It is very unfortunate!

Grizz..now you know why I don't think that I am coming to AOTH!!!!

[The Hedgehog]

:doh:I wish you guys would quit thinking that Tex and I are stupid or have some sort of a death wish. We are not doing anything different than the Geo that everyone here idolizes. We are gradually upping the ante and seeing what it is like. Hell, I have not even busted 100 yet in a 26 foot boat and folks are suggesting I up my life insurance policy. Geo was doing 130 in an 18 footer and I did not hear much about the dangers of basically riding on a little piece of transom and some rocker plates.
__________________
Uh Hedge in all due respect.... I know Geo and I have met most, not all of the consistent Event Attendees and not anyone or yourself can hold a candle to George Desmond. In character, ability or just plain an honest man and all around self made man...I mean that outside of the Donzi community as well. So for what its worth... lets really not compare over powered ZX's to an Engineering Project that was piloted by a skilled and experienced Parachute Life Jacket wearing owner and has been featured on the Arneson website for years.
Trust me its like comparing yourself to Mario Andretti or pick your own legend or hero... people that know Geo understand what I am talking about. Generous and kind and not an ounce of ego. You guys got more ego in one post then Geo ever showed when he was active here.
Keep dreaming... heros in your own minds... enjoy yourself...
Doc of Sidelined Entertainment:popcorn:


Not really comparing myself to George Desmond. I don't really know him but have corresponded with him a few times and found him to be a nice guy. The whole Geo comment I made was only a simple comparison and not the whole point of my response.

I am frankly a little disappointed in your comments. You have met me but really don't know me yet seem to like to judge me.

As for you, I found you to be a pleasant and nice person. That is why your "hero in your own mind" comment disappoints me. I kind of thought that you were above throwing out cheap shots like that. I found that to be a silly comment, especially coming from one that brags about buying a big Pantera that is built for some "real" power. Do you really think that the Pantera will be not be over powered if you slap a huffer on it? Keep casting those stones without looking in the mirror if that makes you happy.

[Dr. Dan]

Not really comparing myself to George Desmond. I don't really know him but have corresponded with him a few times and found him to be a nice guy. The whole Geo comment I made was only a simple comparison and not the whole point of my response.
I am frankly a little disappointed in your comments. You have met me but really don't know me yet seem to like to judge me.
As for you, I found you to be a pleasant and nice person. That is why your "hero in your own mind" comment disappoints me. I kind of thought that you were above throwing out cheap shots like that. I found that to be a silly comment, especially coming from one that brags about buying a big Pantera that is built for some "real" power. Do you really think that the Pantera will be not be over powered if you slap a huffer on it? Keep casting those stones without looking in the mirror if that makes you happy.


:cool!:Fair enough.... I think you are a nice guy and no judgment intended...

I just don't think nearly killing yourself in any configuration or hull ...Pantera or Donzi.. is a smart thing...

Please don't get excited... perhaps my wit is more in line with the meds I am taking... but I doubt it...

So I will apologize to you for personally offending you...that was not my intent... but I understand your reasoning...

Off the Box Doc :shades:

[SilverBack]

I am just an observer here but...... I didn't know that you guys had really seen Bill's boat or had been for a ride in it. I really can't tell from where I am setting what he has done. I know that Bill is a very generous and kind and helpful person. I know that for sure. The best is the best until someone else comes along. I am just a hick from MS but that is the way that I see it. From where I set I think Ted (Mr. X) would be right there with GEOO on the HERO list. Not to take anything away from GEOO but Ted has done it several times and always with class and he does a first class job. I don't know either one but that is the way that I see it from where I set. I have never heard a bad word about Geoo and I would never say a bad thing about HH. He is a real class act!!

[BUIZILLA]

:bighug: group hug :bighug:

:boat:

[The Hedgehog]

:cool!:Fair enough.... I think you are a nice guy and no judgment intended...
I just don't think nearly killing yourself in any configuration or hull ...Pantera or Donzi.. is a smart thing...
Please don't get excited... perhaps my wit is more in line with the meds I am taking... but I doubt it...
So I will apologize to you for personally offending you...that was not my intent... but I understand your reasoning...
Off the Box Doc :shades:

Thanks,

and no, I don't think that any of us want to see someone die in either boat. I do know that my boat is overpowered and do respect it. I also appreciate all that you do with your products.

As far as Keith is concerned, he tends to get fired up just like most of us. It is a pleasure to talk to him.

[roadtrip se]

I ran a 32 Fountain with twin 800's for two seasons back in 97 and 98. It tipped 110 a couple of times and could break 100 any day. I can honestly say that it was a complete handful at those speeds, tab or no tab. I tried 380s on it, and magnified whatever issue I had by two times over. This is where my big tab experience knowledge is coming from. I know it is not an over-powered ZX single, but it certainly was an over-powered double. Sold it to a Trans-AM circut racer, and I still see it once in awhile on the lake here.

So been there, done that.

So Danny has started a bit of a pissing contest here and I pulled a Bosworth, by giving my standard safety speech. You guys have made more than a few here nervous with your pursuit of hyper-sonic speeds of the single ZX ilk. I have heard this mentioned in many conversations I have had over the holidays with folks here. Call us a bunch of old ladies, but we like our rally attendees to make it through the run. Obviously, the point has been made, and everyone seems to get it.

Now, who will be the old lady if they don't show up for our run at Lake Cumberland in the spring, over a little heated internet post?

[Donziweasel]

Watching videos Geoo go 120 mph still makes me nervous.:wink:

I have spoken with Bill many times on the phone and I feel he is a very level headed down to earth guy. He knows his boat and I think he knows how fast is fast enough.

I think these guys are doing what Geoo, Ed, Rootsy, Mr.X and others have done in classics. They are simply doing it in ZX's. No one really know the potential of these hulls yet, and these guys seem to be finding out what the limitations are.

I don't know about Kieth, but I know Brian and Bill have families and I do not think they would do anything to jeopardize themselves.

I also think any concern shown to thier safety is because we are a family and we care about these guys, or at least I do. It is nice to see the concern from this board, and I hope the ZX guys don't take it the wrong way.

So, run it until you think it is fast enough. Only you guys know your individual boats and how they are reacting to the power you have applied. I have really enjoyed reading about your success and have learned alot.

[BigGrizzly]

Considering, I have met Geeo, and he is one of the few that have driven my boat and I have been in his. I totally understand what Doc is talking about. You have to know the man. Safety WAS and IS always his first though. All his friends Know why he stopped. People will go faster but no one will attain his ICON status. When I first finished my boat, only Geeo was faster. That actually was not my goal, it just happened. there have only two people on the board that have been with me at above my posted top speed. 1, was Poodle the other my Wife. Both will tell you we could not see anyone for at leas 270 degrees of viewing. My point is that I read this again, and people were a little sensitive of the printed word. I watched hedg at Cumberland and his driving before I made an evaluation of his driving. I did the same of Last Texan at Eufaula. At this point there are only about 10 maybe 12 on this board I would drive fast rail to rail with and their Donzi. All of you should know who you are. I am not including Connie in the list because of her boat, but if I was doing 86 mph and I saw here 6 inches of the port It would not bother me in the least. I will add a sales pitch here, The reason last Texan was able to do it was because of me. His other props were just not up to the task.

[BigGrizzly]

I feel that I really need comment to the DW statement. Believe me there is nothing in common with what George did and what Hedg, Keith and Tex are and have done. The major difference is George wrote and rewrote the book on the Arneson. Then the engine. When I first met him it was only in the high 500 or low 600hp range. I watched as that small block graduated from mini mouse to Might Mouse. Can you say 1000+ Clydesdale, not ponies. Some notable engine builders could not have done what he accomplished. Lets put this into perspective. It is a 18 foot deep V , no pad, no room in the engine compartment. And to my knowledge, he would only mention speed if you asked specifically asked. The whole thing with him was handling. I will give you an example. George called up Garry and talked about his engine and asked for some info. Later that day I strolled into the shop and Garry told me he had talked to the nicest guy he has ever met on the phone. This is coming from Drag racing "mister congeniality". At that moment Garry told me he would break 100. George is like Doc, there are these guys and then there are the rest of us. Both are the best at what they do.

[Donziweasel]

Randy, I agree and did not mean it is a direct comparison. Geoo and Mighty Mouse were before my time. I wish I had had the pleasure of meeting him, he seems very respected and well liked.

What I meant was that the members I mentioned have pushed into area most of us will never go with their respective setups. I respect all of them and what they have accomplished. Ed going over a 100 in a 16, Jamie over 80 in a NA 18, Tex, Hedge, and Silver with what they are doing. I also respect your knowledge and what you have acomplished with your Critter also.

It is not just in regards to speed either. I respect what Wayne is trying to accomplish with Crazy Chinese Chicken or what Ted did with his unique 22. I also respect all the restos going on.

Anyway, good point Randy and point taken, but for all the differences, I still see some similarities and appreciate all the work all of these guys have done.

I will say one last thing, if Bill feels his boat is capable of running 100 mph safely, then he will do it. If he feels he is fast enough, I think that is where he will stay. I have had talks with him and he always brings up the safety aspect when refering to his boat and the speeds he is running. :)

[gcarter]

I've been watching, reading, and thinking about this alot....not about Tex, or Griz, or Hedge, or the good Dr.
But I've been thinking about Keith.
A few years ago, my wife Elaine tripped over an exercise machine and broke the upper arm bone just below the ball @ the shoulder. The good news was that if she didn't move it for three months, she wouldn't need surgery.
The bad news was that she was on some very strong pain medication for quite awhile.
After a few days, she was getting bored and started shopping on HSN, and on line @ numerous sites. After a few weeks of this, all these boxes started being delivered to the door by UPS.
She said she had no memory of making the orders and blamed it on the pain meds. It took quite awhile to pay all the bills. I don't know if she learned anything from the experience or not.
Well, Keith apparently has a pretty good paying job, some time on his hands while he's off shore, and a very understanding wife.
In the process of all this, he's managed to build something that has tremendous potential, but at the moment has maybe very little knowledge of how to utilize all that potential.
Keith, if I were you, I'd stay off line w/it and pick the oldest, most knowledgable, and experienced person you can to glean as much as you can from them.
I wouldn't worry about tabs until it became apparent to yourself that tabs were needed.
Just take it easy and work your way up till it becomes uncomfortable. Stick it out there until you understand what's going on.
Relax Keith.
All is well.:yes:

[p729lws]

Do any of the K-planes or other manufacturers use a cmmon plate on the transom for different lenght tabs so you can try different tabs w/o getting into the transom each time?

Dan

[The Hedgehog]

I've been watching, reading, and thinking about this alot....not about Tex, or Griz, or Hedge, or the good Dr.
But I've been thinking about Keith.
A few years ago, my wife Elaine tripped over an exercise machine and broke the upper arm bone just below the ball @ the shoulder. The good news was that if she didn't move it for three months, she wouldn't need surgery.
The bad news was that she was on some very strong pain medication for quite awhile.
After a few days, she was getting bored and started shopping on HSN, and on line @ numerous sites. After a few weeks of this, all these boxes started being delivered to the door by UPS.
She said she had no memory of making the orders and blamed it on the pain meds. It took quite awhile to pay all the bills. I don't if she learned anything from the experience or not.
Well, Keith apparently has a pretty good paying job, some time on his hands while he's off shore, and a very understanding wife.
In the process of all this, he's managed to build something that has tremendous potential, but at the moment has maybe very little knowledge of how to utilize all that potential.
Keith, if I were you, I'd stay off line w/it and pick the oldest, most knowledgable, and experienced person you can to glean as much as you can from them.
I wouldn't worry about tabs until it became apparent to yourself that tabs were needed.
Just take it easy and work your way up till it becomes uncomfortable. Stick it out there until you understand what's going on.
Relax Keith.
All is well.:yes:

I think that is a great post. Very well said.

And yes John is right. I won't do anything if it does not feel right.

[The Hedgehog]

I wish that everyone would not dwell on my Geo comment. I am by no means comparing myself to him. I know that he worked with Rick to pioneer his rocket ship. I think that is great but frankly don't care if he was working wiht NASA because that was not my point. My point is that there is inherent danger in all of this stuff. I really don't know how everyone interpreted this into a personal thing. Everyone now keeps telling me what a great guy he is. Heck, it has even been suggested that I am some sort of a POS egomaniac. I find that pretty sad since only a few here really know me.

I don't care how good you are, if something breaks at high speed that could be it. Period. There is a level of danger in all of it whether you are in a X-18 at 130 with a parachute, ZX at 95 with a lifeline or doing 80 in a classic 22 with no hydraulic steering. I read a post about someone losing a prop blade at those speeds. I don't care how good they were, they were lucky. And yes, I do remember who it was but once again, the point is not who they were, it was the risk.

I will be happy to discuss risk management, mitigating factors or any such subject personally if anyone wants to talk. I happen to deal with that for a living. At this point, I would like this thread to die or get back to the first question.

[The Hedgehog]

Do any of the K-planes or other manufacturers use a cmmon plate on the transom for different lenght tabs so you can try different tabs w/o getting into the transom each time?
Dan

I do know that 280 and 380 Kplane plates are interchangable. Tex did this. I don't remember it being a big deal.

[HOWARD O]

WOW....I hate that we have gotten to this point.. It is very unfortunate!

Grizz..now you know why I don't think that I am coming to AOTH!!!!

Wouldn't catch me anywhere near some of the folks in the cliquey group, if "Dr. Dan" is any indication of where they're coming from. He actually had the gall to knock somebody ELSE'S ego? Wow, that's amazing!

A Donzi event always sounded like a good time to me too, now I am thinking maybe not. I think y'all are just too cool for me! It's been amazing to see how donzi.net has formed into a small, exclusive group of people with little toleration over the last 12 or so years. :cool:

[harbormaster]

Guys, Guys, Guys.....

Chill out. We all have performance boats. Some of us like to go faster than others. Deal with it. cool it down and keep it civil....

For the record, I have tabs on my boat that are 3 feet long! Do I need them for speed? Maybe not, but they look a lot better than a swim platform.... (They sure make it alot easier to get in and out of the boat).

[SilverBack]

I've been watching, reading, and thinking about this alot....not about Tex, or Griz, or Hedge, or the good Dr.
But I've been thinking about Keith.
A few years ago, my wife Elaine tripped over an exercise machine and broke the upper arm bone just below the ball @ the shoulder. The good news was that if she didn't move it for three months, she wouldn't need surgery.
The bad news was that she was on some very strong pain medication for quite awhile.
After a few days, she was getting bored and started shopping on HSN, and on line @ numerous sites. After a few weeks of this, all these boxes started being delivered to the door by UPS.
She said she had no memory of making the orders and blamed it on the pain meds. It took quite awhile to pay all the bills. I don't know if she learned anything from the experience or not.
Well, Keith apparently has a pretty good paying job, some time on his hands while he's off shore, and a very understanding wife.
In the process of all this, he's managed to build something that has tremendous potential, but at the moment has maybe very little knowledge of how to utilize all that potential.
Keith, if I were you, I'd stay off line w/it and pick the oldest, most knowledgable, and experienced person you can to glean as much as you can from them.
I wouldn't worry about tabs until it became apparent to yourself that tabs were needed.
Just take it easy and work your way up till it becomes uncomfortable. Stick it out there until you understand what's going on.
Relax Keith.
All is well.:yes:


Wouldn't catch me anywhere near some of the folks in the cliquey group, if "Dr. Dan" is any indication of where they're coming from. He actually had the gall to knock somebody ELSE'S ego? Wow, that's amazing!

A Donzi event always sounded like a good time to me too, now I am thinking maybe not. I think y'all are just too cool for me! It's been amazing to see how donzi.net has formed into a small, exclusive group of people with little toleration over the last 12 or so years. :cool:

George,

You are a scholar and a gentleman!!! You are right on base with what you are saying. I have come to the same conclusions as you as to the best route to take in this process. I got into flying R/C airplanes one time and it was funny. I was a natural at flying them and I loved it and I did pattern flying. There were some other older guys at the time that did not even fly the planes but just loved building them. They had amazing talent. They new all the tricks and all the rules of thumb but they just liked watching them fly and building them. I could not build one if my life depended on it. I just don't have that kind of talent. There are people like you and Lenny that just amaze me every time (almost):wink: that you post.

You are correct on your other points too. On a typical day I have to make about 30 to 45 minutes of command decisions and the rest of the day I am locked up on a floating piece of steel. I am an outdoors person that likes to get out and do things but this is the way that I support my family. Nobody ever said that things were always going to be perfect and I live in MS and there is nowhere that I can find a job making a quarter of what I make anywhere else. I have 18 years invested in my experience doing what I do so I do the job that I have available. I am off half the year under normal circumstances so there is a trade off. There are some years that I am only at work for maybe 3-4 months. The rest of the time I am as free as a bird to do whatever I want. I am not complaining. I do have lots of time and lots of questions and I do like to learn so...I post and dig to try to find answers and what other people opinions are. I am not going to do anything that I feel is unsafe and
I have found a person like the one that you were speaking of.



I really want to thank you for all of your post and your advise and concern. It is very much appreciated!!


Now for the others...


I did not realize that I had been causing anyone any problems. I look around and if I see a subject that doesn't sound like it interests me I don't look at it. I did not know that I was offending anyone. Maybe someone needs to give me some guidelines. It is amazing to me that when someone from Florida or down below the Mason-Dixon gets enough of me they can tell me in a friendly manner. I hate to say it but I think Howard hit the nail on the head. There is a clique!! I have no desire to be in the clique. I am really getting more and more where I really could not give a crap about the winy group of brainiacs that make up the clique. I have though more that one time about just moving on to a different website just because of the clique. Where I come from if you tell somebody something you had better be ready to stand behind it. Even it you are the smartest person in the room and you are talking to some half whit. I have not left and I have never said a bad word about this website because Scot V and Poodle are really the website and not the clique. I think that those two guys are standup guys and you would never hear that kind of crap out of them. I am sure that it is just a coincident that they both live down south!!

Howard..I don't know you..but you are right on the money and I have given up on holding back. I am sure that I have one foot out the door around here anyway so let the chips fall where they may!! I would challenge all the smart people that have time to go to all of their fancy cocktail parties and have unruly pets to support this website as much as I do. Put your money where your mouth is!!:popcorn:

[BUIZILLA]

this has been blown wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy out of proportion.....

[SilverBack]

I started this thread to talk about big tabs...not this crap anyway..:hijack:

The next thing you know..it is ....don't come to AOTH with your ass backwards asses running your POS boats..(that is me reading between the lines) don't come to my cocktail party and **** on my rug. (that is NOT me reading between the lines) I am fine with HM or Poodle deleting the whole thread!

Maybe I can ask the question over on boat freaks and not get all of the Girly Man commentary!!

[DonziJon]

Now for the others...


I did not realize that I had been causing anyone any problems. I look around and if I see a subject that doesn't sound like it interests me I don't look at it. I did not know that I was offending anyone. Maybe someone needs to give me some guidelines. It is amazing to me that when someone from Florida or down below the Mason-Dixon gets enough of me they can tell me in a friendly manner. I hate to say it but I think Howard hit the nail on the head. There is a click!! I have no desire to be in the click. I am really getting more and more where I really could not give a crap about the winy group of brainiacs that make up the click. I have though more that one time about just moving on to a different website just because of the click. Where I come from if you tell somebody something you had better be ready to stand behind it. Even it you are the smartest person in the room and you are talking to some half whit. I have not left and I have never said a bad word about this website because Scot V and Poodle are really the website and not the click. I think that those two guys are standup guys and you would never hear that kind of crap out of them. I am sure that it is just a coincident that they both live down south!!

Howard..I don't know you..but you are right on the money and I have given up on holding back. I am sure that I have one foot out the door around here anyway so let the chips fall where they may!! I would challenge all the smart people that have time to go to all of their fancy cocktail parties and have unruly pets to support this website as much as I do. Put your money where your mouth is!!:popcorn:

BRAVO BRAVO: Good for you Silverback. I am in your camp. I very often Bite My Tongue and try..sometimes unsucessfully.. to keep my mouth shut. OH Wait.....I hope I don't put you in the dog house (Ruin your Rep) with my support. :bonk: John

[Air 22]

I started this thread to talk about big tabs...not this crap anyway..:hijack:

The next thing you know..it is ....don't come to AOTH with your ass backwards asses running your POS boats..(that is me reading between the lines) don't come to my cocktail party and **** on my rug. (that is NOT me reading between the lines) I am fine with HM or Poodle deleting the whole thread!

Maybe I can ask the question over on boat freaks and not get all of the Girly Man commentary!!

SB...The posts do get outta hand and come completely off topic sometimes...everyone has a point of view or experience and then sooner or later they feel they have to defend themselves to the bitter end...don't let it get to ya... Ur better than that...don't take it seriousley...let roll off ur back...no pun inteded...lol
I hope to c ya @
AOTH my first time there...can u say rookie w/ a blue motor:)...lol
Smile...life to short to get worked up over a website post...smile man...ur alive health...enjoy life..to heck with the rest...:)...c ya there...and I won't s---t on ur rug either...:)

[Donziweasel]

I hope I don't put you in the dog house (Ruin your Rep) with my support.

I thought that was my job.:wink:

[BigGrizzly]

OK I guess now we can put tabs in the catagory of props and trailer tires, cams, etc. Wait we are going to run out of things to talk about. :shocking:

[SilverBack]

OK I guess now we can put tabs in the catagory of props and trailer tires, cams, etc. Wait we are going to run out of things to talk about. :shocking:


No Grizz..I think we have been running away from this for too long...


I think Tex is right..We need a forum for people like me....I just want to come here and talk about boats and boating....get some technical help and get some advice. Tell people that they did a good job and so forth.


I think we need a forum on this website for "people that are not anal retentive and just want to talk about boats" "Not easily offended brainiacs and no one from the Clique allowed!!"


Then we can talk about anything and be nice and polite. Most of us know that we don't have to be here ...we can click on the next link if this one does not interest us....we can disagree without being a gold plated A$$.


We don't even have to separate the “whatever dumb A$$ thing that is on your mind” from the “What is wrong with your POS boat today” forums. We can figure out which one the person is talking about. It is kind of funny when half whits are a little confused anyway!!

[Carl C]

Well against my better judgement, since a few others had the 'nads to speak up, I will jump in front of the firing squad too and agree that this site has become a bit of a "clique". Think about it, a lot of people don't post here much anymore. :(

[SilverBack]

Well against my better judgement, since a few others spoke up, I will jump in front of the firing squad too and agree that this site has become a bit of a "clique". Think about it, a lot of people don't post here much anymore. :(

Carl...I don't think that it is "the website" ....I think the clique tries to hijack:hijack: the website and make everyone think that they are the website. I have gotten tons of PM's today. I had no idea how many people were fed up with the clique also. I know that I have had more PM's than anyone ever today over this thread and what I have said on it. I could not believe the response!! The problem is that polite people are polite and don't want to get into the back and forth plus the clique has a way of sticking together like a bunch of Hyenas that can't wait to cheap shot you and make you think that you were the one that was wrong...you must have been ...they are the smart ones....The little people have been talked down to and been made to feel like lower forms of life for too long around here. They are sick of it. I had no idea how many people were getting sick of their attitudes!!

[The Hedgehog]

Carl...I don't think that it is "the website" ....I think the clique tries to hijack:hijack: the website and make everyone think that they are the website. I have gotten tons of PM's today. I had no idea how many people were fed up with the clique also. I know that I have had more PM's than anyone ever today over this thread and what I have said on it. I could not believe the response!! The problem is that polite people are polite and don't want to get into the back and forth plus the clique has a way of sticking together like a bunch of Hyenas that can't wait to cheap shot you and make you think that you were the one that was wrong...you must have been ...they are the smart ones....The little people have been talked down to and been made to feel like lower forms of life for too long around here. They are sick of it. I had no idea how many people were getting sick of their attitudes!!

I have had a few pm's, a bunch of personal e-mails and a txt or two about the cheap shot I took last night from one of the clique. Hmm, I wonder that that says.

I wonder if the super heros were messaging back and forth saying things like "you really told him," "yeah, I know that you don't really know him but he surely can't be a good calibre guy both on and off the donzi.net," "I know that you drive a 80 mph classic without hydraulic steering, but you really schooled him on safety," and so on.

[Last Real Texan]

I have had a few pm's, a bunch of personal e-mails and a txt or two about the cheap shot I took last night from one of the clique. Hmm, I wonder that that says.
I wonder if the super heros were messaging back and forth saying things like "you really told him," "yeah, I know that you don't really know him but he surely can't be a good calibre guy both on and off the donzi.net," "I know that you drive a 80 mph classic without hydraulic steering, but you really schooled him on safety," and so on.
Amen Brother and things were... looking up for the Tide! On Edit, they got spanked can you say Sanched
Oh and I can't wait to take the cheap shots and heat that the quad rotor is going to bring my way...
Tex

[roadtrip se]

this has been blown wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy out of proportion.....

We have the Mason-Dixon line, Jack Kennedy, homosexual undertones, heros and cheap shots, a whole bunch of somebody done me wrong sometime somewhere, and the merits of long tabs, going on. Sounds like the makings of a good country juke box drinking song.

Somebody call Geo, he would cry laughing over this road wreck.

[BlownCrewCab]

Wow, I just read this whole thing (about 45 minutes) and it really turned to Sh*t. I'm amazed.

Keith, You can put what ever size and color tabs you want, and if you feel you need more or less tab you can change them. And if you are at any donzi event (or other event) I'd love to ride in your boat. I think it's a kick azz project, right up my alley, Probably like something I would do if I had the cash. I'm all about having a bad azz, unique piece to cruise around in, everything I own has been modified in some way, and usually to make it faster, Heck my daily driver truck has done 141 (on the wifes gps, I had to delete it) that doesn't mean I do it everyday, but I can. Don't fret all the BS, enjoy what you have & have done to it. I'm sure you know your limitations and are smart enough to use them. I Like seeing your posts/threads on here, It's allways cool to see what your thinking, then actually doing it. some people talk and then don't do it.. don't sweat the petty stuff..(Now,can you put your LSU avitar back please, Good game)

Call me anytime..

[SilverBack]

Wow, I just read this whole thing (about 45 minutes) and it really turned to Sh*t. I'm amazed.

Keith, You can put what ever size and color tabs you want, and if you feel you need more or less tab you can change them. And if you are at any donzi event (or other event) I'd love to ride in your boat. I think it's a kick azz project, right up my alley, Probably like something I would do if I had the cash. I'm all about having a bad azz, unique piece to cruise around in, everything I own has been modified in some way, and usually to make it faster, Heck my daily driver truck has done 141 (on the wifes gps, I had to delete it) that doesn't mean I do it everyday, but I can. Don't fret all the BS, enjoy what you have & have done to it. I'm sure you know your limitations and are smart enough to use them. I Like seeing your posts/threads on here, It's allways cool to see what your thinking, then actually doing it. some people talk and then don't do it.. don't sweat the petty stuff..(Now,can you put your LSU avitar back please, Good game)

Call me anytime..

Michael,

Thanks a million!! It means a lot coming from you. I think I have gotten well over 30 PM's mostly from people that I have never even talked to today all in very strong support of me and my position on this thread! I think that the cute people should re-evaluate their cuteness!! If I go on a vacation or to an event anywhere near your way you can bet that you will be in my boat!! I have been waiting for you to teach me some stuff for a year now!! Thanks again man!!

[SilverBack]

We have the Mason-Dixon line, Jack Kennedy, homosexual undertones, heros and cheap shots, a whole bunch of somebody done me wrong sometime somewhere, and the merits of long tabs, going on. Sounds like the makings of a good country juke box drinking song.

Somebody call Geo, he would cry laughing over this road wreck.


Ok..that is funny.....but what are we missing????


Mama

A train

A four wheel drive

my old dog

Losing my great job that I had down at the car plant!!


Getting out of jail or getting put into jail...we are talking about the classic country songs not this new crap right??


You know one of my old favorites now that we are talking about jail.....Fightin' Side of ME!!!! I don't know why that tune keeps running through my head as I type this!!!!

[The Hedgehog]

Ok..that is funny.....but what are we missing????


Mama

A train

A four wheel drive

my old dog

Losing my great job that I had down at the car plant!!


Getting out of jail or getting put into jail...we are talking about the classic country songs not this new crap right??


You know one of my old favorites now that we are talking about jail.....Fightin' Side of ME!!!! I don't know why that tune keeps running through my head as I type this!!!!

Todd did pretty much nail it with the country song thing. I have to admit that is pretty good:popcorn:

Now the jail thing, we really should avoid that one. That's all over OSO with the whole Gary Taylor incident. Bad stuff.

We may want to slam each other but I hope that its not in that way:shocking: In the end I hope that it is all in fun.

As opposed to the country theme, I like to think of things in terms of an adult film. Much more fun:

1. A roving reporter
2. A neighborhood full of bored housewives
3. Some frolicking times
4. A few people getting caught in the act but getting helped along the way in the end

That is much more fun than the whole mama and cry in your beer theme.

[SilverBack]

Todd did pretty much nail it with the country song thing. I have to admit that is pretty good:popcorn:

Now the jail thing, we really should avoid that one. That's all over OSO with the whole Gary Taylor incident. Bad stuff.

We may want to slam each other but I hope that its not in that way:shocking: In the end I hope that it is all in fun.

As opposed to the country theme, I like to think of things in terms of an adult film. Much more fun:

1. A roving reporter
2. A neighborhood full of bored housewives
3. Some frolicking times
4. A few people getting caught in the act but getting helped along the way in the end

That is much more fun than the whole mama and cry in your beer theme.

Ok..Bill is back to his porn so everything is pretty much back to normal!! I guess that I can say that I pm'd back and forth with Dr. Dan a few times and he Just got over heart surgery and he has always been a very nice person and I think he did not mean what he said so ....let's all just move on....I think there is one more person that needs to step up and admit that he was wrong but...hey life is too short...lets move on as one big happy family. I think everybody gets the point and we all know where everyone else is coming from.


Ok Buiz....you were right again....Big Hug!!:bighug:


BTW..Grizz...I am sending your props back ASAP..fair weather freind!!!!:wink:

[SilverBack]

We have the Mason-Dixon line, Jack Kennedy, homosexual undertones, heros and cheap shots, a whole bunch of somebody done me wrong sometime somewhere, and the merits of long tabs, going on. Sounds like the makings of a good country juke box drinking song.

Somebody call Geo, he would cry laughing over this road wreck.


In the light of my new found graciousness .......... Todd...that was a pretty good observation and funny!!

I wish someone would tell Geoo...I have some questions for him...is he too busy at the museum to come over to Donzi.net and help some people out??

[SilverBack]

Scott...very well said...Thanks for all that you do to keep this place running!!

[Last Real Texan]

Did I miss something here? was there a thread deleted?

Tex

[CJmike]

Now for the others...

It is amazing to me that when someone from Florida or down below the Mason-Dixon gets enough of me they can tell me in a friendly manner. I am sure that it is just a coincident that they both live down south!!



So now your taking shots at Yankees. Ohh I am so offended.:nilly:

[Last Real Texan]

So now your taking shots at Yankees. Ohh I am so offended.:nilly:
Oh the humanity!

[HOWARD O]

You guys need to read, and then re-read, and maybe even re-read HH's comments somewhere around here about the way stuff comes across on the net sometimes.
Come to an event or three, and you will realize that while some folks here will take great delight in breaking your nads on as many subjects as they can, they will also be the first to loan ya a wrench, loan you their expertise, jump in the bilge, or drive you all over God's green earth in search of that elusive part you broke. IMO there is not a malicious spirit here, I do not think there is a concerted effort by any one group of folks here to drive out anyone, to bash anyone, to drive them away. Much like your favorite bar, we gather here to discuss a huge variety of subjects, with a huge audience. Sometimes it gets heated, sometimes you do not get the answer you seek, sometimes you get told something you don't want to hear. You will also realize that much like a roostertail (he he :) ) party, there are folks here who have deep seated friendships with each other, and will defend them here and in person, much as we would hope you would for your friends. But, in the end, we gather here to celebrate our boats, our lives, and our friends. Will we always agree? Hell no. But, we can get along, we can agree to disagree, we can share a beer or twelve at various events.
In our Donzi's..
HH said: I wish you guys would quit thinking that Tex and I are stupid or have some sort of a death wish. We are not doing anything different than the Geo that everyone here idolizes. We are gradually upping the ante and seeing what it is like. Hell, I have not even busted 100 yet in a 26 foot boat and folks are suggesting I up my life insurance policy. Geo was doing 130 in an 18 footer and I did not hear much about the dangers of basically riding on a little piece of transom and some rocker plates.
__________________
Dr. Dan said: Uh Hedge in all due respect.... I know Geo and I have met most, not all of the consistent Event Attendees and not anyone or yourself can hold a candle to George Desmond. In character, ability or just plain an honest man and all around self made man...I mean that outside of the Donzi community as well. So for what its worth... lets really not compare over powered ZX's to an Engineering Project that was piloted by a skilled and experienced Parachute Life Jacket wearing owner and has been featured on the Arneson website for years.
Trust me its like comparing yourself to Mario Andretti or pick your own legend or hero... people that know Geo understand what I am talking about. Generous and kind and not an ounce of ego. You guys got more ego in one post then Geo ever showed when he was active here.
Keep dreaming... heros in your own minds... enjoy yourself...
Doc of Sidelined Entertainment
--------------------------------------------------------
I can't help but continue this and back up HH and Silverback, basically because it pisses me off. Read the above exchange carefully. There was NOTHING derogatory said about George Desmond personally. On the contrary, I believe he was given the respect that he deserved, seems by all accounts that he's a helluva guy.
So either Dr. Dan was defending his friend for no other reason than to take a shot at HH, or he was just drinking heavily and didn't know his ass from a hole in the ground. That's all fine and great, HH can surely take a shot, even when it's for no apparent reason. Everyone here takes a certain pride in GEO's accomplishments with his Donzi, whether they know him or not. Those that do know him are proud to know him and are proud to brag about their rides in his boat. Cool bragging rights, to be sure. Nothing wrong with that. But HH dared to mention his name without even KNOWING George and got slammed......as if the mere mentioning of his name in a comparison between building up speed in their respective boats was blasphemy. It wasn't blasphemy and George Desmond isn't GOD, folks!
Not to mention the fact that some here happen to know who owns George Desmond's boat now. Some of that group also seem to take a bit of satisfaction in letting this fact out to the rest of the members, if only to let the other members know that they are "in the loop". I personally find that a bit "high-schoolish" and while I personally don't give a rat's ass where the "mighty mouse" is, it's just another indication of the "clique" and it's mildly irritating, IMHO.
For me, Donzi.net has become nothing less than a source of technical information that can be searched. That's a very valuable resource. However, the "Donzi owning" camaraderie seems to be all but gone. No, I don't believe it's a concerted effort and I don't believe it's ill-will by anybody, including the folks in "the loop", I agree with Poodle in that respect. It's just happening and maybe there isn't anything that can be done about it. Kind of a societal problem within the website and I suppose is inevitable after a forum has been going for so many years and a certain amount of members start to know each other very well......and other members get left out. That's just the way it is.......which sucks for me personally, since I am now an owner again after so many years. I really don't know what I'm trying to say, only that time and time again, reading threads here just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. :confused:

[Dr. Dan]

:cool!:Howard I agree with you...my head was up my Azz and I have no excuse...fact is sometimes I type too fast for my own good...I am man enough to admit when I am wrong and not too timid to post a public apology to Bill & Keith(Hedgehog & Silverback & Texas) or all the rest of you that I apparently offend on a regular basis. So I am sorry for lighting a match and fueling the fire that has created this controversial exchange.

However... I guess I would like to clarify a few things... and perhaps this too is all subject to interpretation and opinion. I have made many friends by attending these Events...and to think that any of you would be less likely to attend Lake Cumberland or the DustOff or any gathering because of me or Roadtrip or anyones comments is unfortunate... that is clearly your choice...but many of you I did not know and met at these gatherings and you now are very close friends... and I can only speak for myself...but I would not turn my back on any one of you if you needed anything.

As I tried to do earlier when I apologized to Bill - this is a dynamic forum, its not a club or a click...you get some people like myself that do take part and try to push sponsership or attendence to certain Events...and its meant out of passion for the Event or the People running the Club...not out of malice or exclusion for those of you that have yet to come to an Event.

For Petes Sake that is the whole reason for the Foum...to exchange ideas...and ask questions. And Howard you are right ... when I get outta hand and fly off the cuff with a Smart Azz comment like I did...it can only be interpreted in English! It's written and it's out there... it can't be taken back! For those I offended I apologize again! I will try to not let my head get any further up my Anal Cavity!:wink:

So all that being said... I have spoken to Keith...and I hope Bill will accept this as well...I messed up! It's my bad...I am not gonna pawn it off on someone else...I am sorry everyone had to read it...but in a way it is a good thing as Keith said to get this out...I think those of us....who do interact alot here...need to step back...and maybe be more careful how we phrase things.

Fact is I used to be the guy that knew no one, I was the guy that was nervous to post a question ... until I took the time and traveled to meet so many of you! And as far as a Clique or Cute People or Fancy People... guess what.. we all put our pants on one leg at a time... so lets get over it... the reason those of us that are close or are soo united is because of this site....because of what Howard was describing...as lost!

I don't think it's lost at all... I don't think one project on a ZX or a CLassic or whatever make and style is any less important than any other... that is why we are here... the fact that Keith or Bill or any of us get soooo pissed off is because we do care, we do enjoy being here and we all look forward to seeking answers or reading on George Carters new method for whatever...we are a group of characters... sometimes thats good ..sometimes its hysterical..

And like a Family sometimes one of us...in this case it was me... rubbed alot of folks the wrong way! And again... sorry about that! But it's what this is all about... so I am gonna stop my rambling ...for now...and hope that in some faint way you all can see my perverse logic and accept my humble apologies! :worthy:

I do care for you all ... . its not meant personally and I'll dial it down several nothces if that will be acceptable?

Doc :wink:

[osur866]

I just read most of this thread, I think its gonna be a LONG winter :chillpill:. Steve

[The Hedgehog]

Quite a remarkable series of exchanges.

Howard, I really appreciate your point of view.

I would encourage everyone to come to an event or two. I had a heated exchange or two with someone before the last AOTH and came anyway. I was very glad I came and will be going back. I did not find one person that was willing to help with docklines, spare stuff or even a beer when my cooler was a long walk away. Sure there are folks that have been around and know each other but I found that you could pretty much have a beer with anyone.

All the insurance cards, jackets and formal process sounded like overkill to me initially. Trust me, they are not overkill and if I were in Todd's shoes I would do the same. It is not that I saw anyone driving like an idiot, its is that there can be a good bit going on at speed and the allows for a tighter margin of error.

[BigGrizzly]

Doc, Really Trust me on this one. Most of the issue, is people do not understand the people from other parts of the country and walks of life. Both Barb and I read the post and it isn't you by yourself. It is all of US!!! The thing that has made this board special was WE ALL use to take criticism and not take it personally. I remember the first day I met you, walking to the ramp in Sota. I remember the first question you asked. You have not changed!!! NOW I am Going to make everybody mad. Since I got sick there has been a change in people and attitude. At the risk of being BANNED from the board, I will tell all of you "lighten up". The board was BUILT on people helping others fix their boats cheaply and correctly. If we don't get back the way it was and is suppose to be we will BE just another wipped board on the internet. I will guarantee if that happens, the Harbormasters dream will die and he will quit. Some good people have left, for these reasons. Me I am from the North East, and can take it. If you don't want to help each other and want to be an Alligator(all mouth and no ears). feel free to go elsewhere. If people go to an event and meet the others they will understand what it is really all about. Does anybody remember the big issue between Truvell and me. Well guys after 5 minutes of talking face to face at Cumberland, we are best of friends, he has stayed at my home and helped me out. All youse(north eastern slang) guys need to lighten up. Do most of you really think that Last Real Texan, Hedghog, MrX, Road Trip, Catch22, and I really cares who is the fastest. HERE is a real FACT "With enough horse power you can push a brick through the water at over 100". There is a computer term that IBM puts at the bottom of their bills. "D.F.H." Translated it means Dollars For Hardware. Like me the rest race against them selves, not each other. This BOARD was and for the most part is, The Best of the Best". With that being said I am going to stop and go make MY world famous Italian Salsa and leave you to chew on this.

[roadtrip se]

:..and to think that any of you would be less likely to attend Lake Cumberland or the DustOff or any gathering because of me or Roadtrip or anyones comments is unfortunate... that is clearly your choice...but many of you I did not know and met at these gatherings and you now are very close friends... and I can only speak for myself...but I would not turn my back on any one of you if you needed anything.
Doc :wink:

to try and make peace here. Yes, you did stir up a major reaction, but I think SOME of the intent of your post, the safety of the ZX performance pioneers and those who boat around them, was timely, needed to be said, and should not be lost. Some of the other stuff? Maybe, not so timely.

While I have been known to stir up a hornet's nest or two on other topics, I didn't really stir anything up here other than the standard we are concerned for safety, we like safety, and we like those who think safety. If that is an unpopular stance and "cliquey" in nature, so be it, but I am not sure why you found it necessary to apologize on my behalf here for being overbearing about safety. If people don't want to come to a rally because I am zealous about preaching that message, then I don't really think I want them there any way, because they are a liability.

Like Danny did say though. If there is something that I have posted in the past that upset someone here, to know me is to love me,
so show up for a rally with us, have a good time on the water, maybe a beverage or two at the end of the day, eat some great food, and lighten up a little. Like Griz and Poodle have said, we can all blow off a little steam here and not make mortal enemies last time I checked.

For the rest of you,

"Lord, I apologize for that right there, and please be with the starvin' pygmies down there in New Guinea, Amen", credit-- Larry the Cable Guy

[The Hedgehog]

to try and make peace here. Yes, you did stir up a major reaction, but I think SOME of the intent of your post, the safety of the ZX performance pioneers and those who boat around them, was timely, needed to be said, and should not be lost. Some of the other stuff? Maybe, not so timely.
While I have been known to stir up a hornet's nest or two on other topics, I didn't really stir anything up here other than the standard we are concerned for safety, we like safety, and we like those who think safety. If that is an unpopular stance and "cliquey" in nature, so be it, but I am not sure why you found it necessary to apologize on my behalf here for being overbearing about safety. If people don't want to come to a rally because I am zealous about preaching that message, then I don't really think I want them there any way, because they are a liability.
Like Danny did say though. If there is something that I have posted in the past that upset someone here, to know me is to love me,
so show up for a rally with us, have a good time on the water, maybe a beverage or two at the end of the day, eat some great food, and lighten up a little. Like Griz and Poodle have said, we can all blow off a little steam here and not make mortal enemies last time I checked.
For the rest of you,
"Lord, I apologize for that right there, and please be with the starvin' pygmies down there in New Guinea, Amen", credit-- Larry the Cable Guy

Your points made about safety should always be taken constructively. Tex and I actually talk about it quite a bit. When we started out I had a 58 mph ZX and Tex had a 68 mph ZX. We have gradually been upping the ante for years.

Tex and I both talk a little smack but it should not all be taken seriously. Tex will be upping the HP again this year. His point is not really to see how fast the ZX will actually go but he just wanted to build a really big motor. He will stick it in the ZX to see what it is like but more than likely it will ultimately find a home in something else. I can assure everyone that if it is not all together and well dialed in, he will not be taking it to AOTH.

As you so well put it, AOTH is about a good time on the water and enjoying a few beverages at the end of the day. I feel that AOTH is not a place for crazy experiments.

[SilverBack]

Look..lets call a spade a spade......Does anybody really believe that any of this back and forth have been over safety or insurance or anything remotely like that....I love how the Clique is still up to there old game. Stick you in the A$$ then change the subject and act like they never said a word that was wrong.....I was going to let all this go and I hate to bring it back up because I think ..no...I know that Dr.Dan is really sorry for what he said and he has done all he can to make it right and I don't hold anything against him...but.....it seems that the clique of really smart people think that us dumb A$$es don't realize when some one sticks us in the butt and then says ....oh lets all be friends and why can't we get along in their sweetest little girly voice......well that crap doesn't fly with me and I can remember back further that a few seconds.......I was picking a little bit and looking forward to coming this year to AOTH and everyone was back and forth in a friendly manner...Then you got your little ego hurt and had to go off the deep end and show everyone how smart you were...since you can't remember let me remind you...You called me a DOG that was at a cocktail party that had just taken a S H I T on the rug in front of everyone. You felt sorry for the host and hostess....you felt sorry for the people attending the party that just had no appetite any more..If you think that is blowing off a little steam...you are a MORON.....You may be smarter than I am and you may be prettier than me...you may be a whole lot better with words..but....please....don't pretend that I am upset over your safety requirements...please.....I have insurance....I have never been unsafe in my boat.....I have a onboard fire system...I have a lanyard....I don't EVER drink any alcohol when I am operating anything. I never impede others space...I do have a lifeline jacket.....I do require a jacket to be worn by the people in my boat ...I do have very good insurance...it is with State Farm....they would write insurance for me any day of the week because I have never had an accident in any vehicle and I have had insurance with them for over 25 years....I shoot firearms...I have taken several firearm training classes....I drive a vehicle....I have taken several defensive driving classes......I have talked with Tres Martin and I am taking a class in this boat by one of the best in the industry!! I could go on and on...Don't pull out safety.....and look like MS .."I didn't do anything" ...... I have talked with a few of your "friends" ...they all say the same thing....Todd is a D I C K until you get to know him and learn how to look over him..He is arrogant...personally I think they need better friends ......I think there are a lot of really nice people out there....without putting up with someone that thinks that it is ok to talk about someone like you did about me and then just move on and act like it never happened!! I am sure that in all of your splendor that you mega brain is working overtime right now thinking of how you are going to put this low life in his place to dare talk to the great one this way. I don't care...I know who I am and I am a good person that treats others the way I want to be treated. I don't think that I am better than anyone.


Now..Hedge did not get upset because of safety either...He had some comments made about him that were not nice and not called for...there were personal comparisons made that never should have been. Dr. Dan was man enough to admit that he made a mistake and said that he was sorry for what he said......That is how real people take care of things when they do something wrong....he was trying to do the same for you because you are not a good enough person to do it for yourself!! Poodle is a self proclaimed really really good fiend of yours and if this gets me banned then so be it... I think Scott is a great guy and I know that he loves this registry and I trust his judgment.


You can do whatever you want....but please don't think that we are too stupid to know what you are doing!!

[Last Real Texan]

And its Festivus for the rest of us..........:beer::drunk:

[HOWARD O]

Howard, let me clarify one thing: No one is playing nahnahnahnahnah, I got a secret... Correct, several folks here know where Geo's X is. They also know and respect the owners wishes to keep it to themselves until they are ready to reintroduce it to the world. That's what friends do.
Scott, I believe you're wrong about this point and let me explain why. If the new owner confided in his friends that he owned said boat, that's cool. None of my business who knows what! I could care less!

Now, given that, please explain to me how I know and the REST OF THE BOARD seems to know that there are certain members here that are privy as to who the new owner is? In other words, if the new owner of the boat wanted to keep it a secret, then how do WE know that other folks here are aware of his identity? Seems to me that the new owner's "friends" only kept half a secret. Oh, and who's on first? :bonk:

I'll tell you why. Because certain friends of the new owner want to play "nanananaaaanaaaahhhh" because they can't seem to grow the hell up, that's why.
Like I said, I DON'T CARE WHO OWNS THE BOAT and I generally don't care about the boat. Have never even thought about that. My point was that the clique mentality DOES exist here in good measure, please don't try to tell anyone it doesn't. I just believe that you honestly don't see it happening because you're part of the "in" crowd.

So what to do about this? Not really a dang thing that can be done about it as far as I can see. What is the close group of friends supposed to do, stop posting about things that don't include everyone else? Of course not, it is what it is and it's definitely not fair to the people that happen to be part of the "in" crowd. It's just an unfortunate evolution that is bound to happen sooner or later. Like I said before, the vast majority of those that are close friends don't and really never have meant to cause any ill will to anyone else here. I don't begrudge them for anything, but every group will have their respective a-holes and I guess it's those folks that I think are high-schoolish. Present company excepted, of course!

[HOWARD O]

I think Silverback is safe.......SAFE I TELL YA!!!! :boat:

[Last Real Texan]

Hey I just noticed we have the casino back.....



And I need my secret decoder ring back ....

[SilverBack]

Hey...drink it up!!!! And have fun at the casino...i think that it is rigged!!:bonk: I have lost my shirt in there every time!! It is a good thing that I don't really gamble!!:yes:

I wish we could all just let this drop too...but I am not going to set back and let everyone think that HH and I (and about 30 other people) got upset because we do not like safety!!


Hey .... I don't like this any more than anyone else!! I am still ready for the group hug!! I just want the record to be straight!!:bighug:

[BUIZILLA]

so I can't wear my signature cliquish plaid shirts, snake skin belts, wing tips, and gold cup socks around the docks anymore? :bonk:

I feel soooooooooooooooooooooo left out and alone.... :nilly:

[Air 22]

so I can't wear my signature cliquish plaid shirts, snake skin belts, wing tips, and gold cup socks around the docks anymore? :bonk:

I feel soooooooooooooooooooooo left out and alone.... :nilly:

Dont forget the Pimp Hat :pimp:and Cigar.....:)

[SilverBack]

so I can't wear my signature cliquish plaid shirts, snake skin belts, wing tips, and gold cup socks around the docks anymore? :bonk:

I feel soooooooooooooooooooooo left out and alone.... :nilly:


You are not in the Clique!! You would have to move out of FLA and change your whole attitude!! You are the anti Clique....maybe you are your own clique!!!!!!!!!:superman:


You are one of the nicest guys on the site!!!

[SilverBack]

I have a good idea!!! Buiz, you and Poodle are friends and you have some pull with him...I think everybody knows what everybody thinks by now....Why don't you get Poodle to DELETE THIS THREAD??????

[Last Real Texan]

so I can't wear my signature cliquish plaid shirts, snake skin belts, wing tips, and gold cup socks around the docks anymore? :bonk:

I feel soooooooooooooooooooooo left out and alone.... :nilly:
You forgot the sweater vest


Tex

[BUIZILLA]

I know....

for this years AOTH theme we can have a *dress like the 70's* party :party:

ankle high paisley bell bottoms, white belt, white socks, patent leather black loafers, Elvis style open chest shirt, lamb chops, greased hair, and a pack of Lucky's :yes:

then I can auction off a set of 60" tabs.. :boat:

how macho is that.. :pimp:

I would hate to upstage Fishin-sucks though.. :confused:

:popcorn:

[BUIZILLA]

You forgot the sweater vest yeah, but I didn't want anybody to know I was the only guy in my class that lettered in typing... :nilly:

[SilverBack]

Meanwhile....Me and the no insurance Canadian gang will be wearing plaid flannel shirts with the sleeves cut out of them and holey jeans with grease smeared all over them and our butt cracks hanging out....chewin' a wad of tobacco!!!! Trying to figure out who we can mow over on a high speed pass!!!

[fogducker III]

Meanwhile....Me and the no insurance Canadian gang will be wearing plaid flannel shirts with the sleeves cut out of them and holey jeans with grease smeared all over them and our butt cracks hanging out....chewin' a wad of tobacco!!!! Trying to figure out who we can mow over on a high speed pass!!!


Don't bring me into your fantasy...........:eek::bonk::welcome:

[Ed Donnelly]

I'd be in with the Canadian gang, but, they don't let criminals across the border.. Canada has got to be the only country in the world to give you a criminal record for failing to file income tax 1 year:nilly:.....Ed

[SilverBack]

Or..maybe we will be plotting a Porky's revenge scene.:pimp:

[roadtrip se]

Look..lets call a spade a spade......Does anybody really believe that any of this back and forth have been over safety or insurance or anything remotely like that....I love how the Clique is still up to there old game. Stick you in the A$$ then change the subject and act like they never said a word that was wrong.....I was going to let all this go and I hate to bring it back up because I think ..no...I know that Dr.Dan is really sorry for what he said and he has done all he can to make it right and I don't hold anything against him...but.....it seems that the clique of really smart people think that us dumb A$$es don't realize when some one sticks us in the butt and then says ....oh lets all be friends and why can't we get along in their sweetest little girly voice......well that crap doesn't fly with me and I can remember back further that a few seconds.......I was picking a little bit and looking forward to coming this year to AOTH and everyone was back and forth in a friendly manner...Then you got your little ego hurt and had to go off the deep end and show everyone how smart you were...since you can't remember let me remind you...You called me a DOG that was at a cocktail party that had just taken a S H I T on the rug in front of everyone. You felt sorry for the host and hostess....you felt sorry for the people attending the party that just had no appetite any more..If you think that is blowing off a little steam...you are a MORON.....You may be smarter than I am and you may be prettier than me...you may be a whole lot better with words..but....please....don't pretend that I am upset over your safety requirements...please.....I have insurance....I have never been unsafe in my boat.....I have a onboard fire system...I have a lanyard....I don't EVER drink any alcohol when I am operating anything. I never impede others space...I do have a lifeline jacket.....I do require a jacket to be worn by the people in my boat ...I do have very good insurance...it is with State Farm....they would write insurance for me any day of the week because I have never had an accident in any vehicle and I have had insurance with them for over 25 years....I shoot firearms...I have taken several firearm training classes....I drive a vehicle....I have taken several defensive driving classes......I have talked with Tres Martin and I am taking a class in this boat by one of the best in the industry!! I could go on and on...Don't pull out safety.....and look like MS .."I didn't do anything" ...... I have talked with a few of your "friends" ...they all say the same thing....Todd is a D I C K until you get to know him and learn how to look over him..He is arrogant...personally I think they need better friends ......I think there are a lot of really nice people out there....without putting up with someone that thinks that it is ok to talk about someone like you did about me and then just move on and act like it never happened!! I am sure that in all of your splendor that you mega brain is working overtime right now thinking of how you are going to put this low life in his place to dare talk to the great one this way. I don't care...I know who I am and I am a good person that treats others the way I want to be treated. I don't think that I am better than anyone.
Now..Hedge did not get upset because of safety either...He had some comments made about him that were not nice and not called for...there were personal comparisons made that never should have been. Dr. Dan was man enough to admit that he made a mistake and said that he was sorry for what he said......That is how real people take care of things when they do something wrong....he was trying to do the same for you because you are not a good enough person to do it for yourself!! Poodle is a self proclaimed really really good fiend of yours and if this gets me banned then so be it... I think Scott is a great guy and I know that he loves this registry and I trust his judgment.
You can do whatever you want....but please don't think that we are too stupid to know what you are doing!!

I stand guilty as charged on the "dog poops on the floor" comment, only after you badmouthed the Classic guys on the AOTH thread. The MWDC stepped up this year and decided to give the ZX guys a chance to shine, and a Jack Ass like you decides to stir up crap. After talking to Scott, he mentioned that you were a decent guy and were only kidding, I deleted my post, and sent you a PM trying to make peace and l mentioned looking forward to meeting you at AOTH. Obviously, Scott was wrong about you and my attempt to make peace doesn't matter.

So, F*** you, friend. You are right, this was never about anything that Danny said or I said for that matter, but just an opportunity for you to stir up more crap. As for your character assasination on me, if you are such a beacon of integrity and safety and all of that other great crap, then you would not blast someone whom you have never met.

I think my instinct on you was right from the beginning. A complete redneck with no sense of class or integrity. Congratulations for making a complete jack ass of yourself in front of 8000+ people. The sad part is that Dan and I had to sink into the depths with you.

[zelatore]

Boy am I glad we got rid of the politics section. It was pi$$ing people off...

[roadtrip se]

Just talked to Madpoodle. He said that you met nothing last night on the Scorpion and AOTH threads. Just messing around.
I don't really know you, so no harm, no foul.
Hey, this is the year for the Z-boats to shine at AOTH, including the single engine ones. Bring it and then you can start messing with me.
Todd
__________________
Don't mess with the Blue Tankini Team on the SS Tripper!...

[SilverBack]

Ok...It is like I said..everybody knows what everybody really thinks and it is all out in the open..I am sure that no one really wanted to get to this point. It is all out there now and there is nothing that we can do about it now. I know how you feel about things and I know how I feel..there seems to be no good that will come out of any more of this...there are some people that feel like me.....there are some people that feel like I am a redneck ... I am quit sure that I am!! I have not said that I was anything else. I know that there are some other guys out there like Grizz and Buiz and Poodle that wish that we would not get into all of this ...especially here on the registry....There is no reason to beat a dead horse and I will leave it at that if everone else will do the same...... I am sure that everyone has formed an opinion of all this by now.


I wish you guys the best of luck with AOTH and I know that it is one of the most looked forward to events of the year for many. You have a lot to do with putting it on and I wish you and everyone a very good and safe time there and with everything in this New Year!!