PDA

View Full Version : Rub Rail Screws



DonziJon
12-27-2008, 05:23 PM
I've replaced 95% of my self tapping rubrail screws with SS bolts, washers and Nylok nuts on my Minx. Had to add Access Ports..one each side to get to some of them. I havn't seen any talk about this Upgrade. Any thoughts. John

zelatore
12-27-2008, 05:27 PM
I've replaced 95% of my self tapping rubrail screws with SS bolts, washers and Nylok nuts on my Minx. Had to add Access Ports..one each side to get to some of them. I havn't seen any talk about this Upgrade. Any thoughts. John

Paging Mr. Carter. Paging Mr. George Carter....

farmer tx
12-27-2008, 06:15 PM
I thru bolted my 86-22Classic, so did trueser on his 86. Never had a loose one after that.

Conquistador_del_mar
12-27-2008, 07:31 PM
I thru bolted my 86-22Classic, so did trueser on his 86. Never had a loose one after that.

Years ago, I was on Lake Travis in Texas with my 1971 18' Donzi cruising along when my $1.50 sun visor blew off. I circled back and picked it up on the fly. As I brought my left hand back up with the visor, I caught my brand new $450.00 gold dress Pulsar watch on one of the screws that had come loose and off came the watch. I had to watch it go down in the crystal clear water near the dam since I was still in gear. Ouch!
Back to the thread. There is no doubt but that through bolting is a much better way to secure the deck to the hull, but it takes two people to do it. I usually use silicon or any type glue to keep the rubrail screws from working loose. Bill

gcarter
12-27-2008, 07:46 PM
Here's a picture of how I solved this issue on the Minx;

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=6393&d=1095896022

These are SST TEE nuts I installed where the glass over the wood strip was pretty thin. I then backed them up with some thick epoxy. There're two sizes here, 1/4-20 for the deck joint, and 10-24 for the rub rail. When I get to that point on the TR, I'll probably just use them on the sides of the cockpit and up in the end of the bow.

RedDog
12-28-2008, 10:13 AM
Just make sure all of the slots are aligned or you'll catch grief around here :wink::wink:

DonziJon
12-28-2008, 10:46 AM
George: I thought I knew everything about fasteners, :bonk: but I havn't seen these before. Can you post another picture of the fastener from a different angle....OR better yet give me a Mfg. Name so I can Google it to see what they look like. :yes: John

gcarter
12-28-2008, 11:11 AM
Here ya go;

View catalog page (http://www.mcmaster.com/nav/framework.asp?ReqTyp=CATALOG&CtlgPgNbr=3212&CtlgEdition=114&fam=threaded&ppe=6&ppr=1&psm=0&psl=4&k1=90973A040&t1=PN&k2=90973A029&t2=PN&k3=90973A114&t3=PN&k4=90973A115&t4=PN&k5=90973A116&t5=PN&k6=90973A120&t6=PN)
Compare products (6) (http://www.mcmaster.com/param/asp/PSearch2.asp?reqTyp=parametric&act=psearch&FAM=threaded&FT_101=1199&FT_104=4054&FT_158=251777&FT_294=253395&FT_357=10971&FT_518=52165&FT_1419=60358&FT_2044=133550&FT_2603=113606&FT_6175=253412&FT_6179=249697&des#ItemsTable)

Threaded Inserts
6 products match your selections

http://www.mcmaster.com/param/images/threaded/90973a029_fam.gif
TypeKnock-InKnock-In TypeTee NutsTee Nut TypeStandardFor Use WithPlastic and WoodApplicationCreate New ThreadsMaterialStainless SteelStainless Steel Type18-8 Stainless SteelFinish/CoatingPlainThreaded TypeRight-Hand ThreadedSystem of MeasurementInchNumber of Prongs4Specifications MetNot Rated


Thread Size
Selecting the Correct Thread Size http://www.mcmaster.com/param/inline/threaded/threadsperinch.gif Inch fasteners are specified with a size and the number of threads. For example, 1-1/2"-6 indicates a 1-1/2" diameter fastener with 6 threads per inch.

Internal Thread Size
[/URL]10-24 (http://www.mcmaster.com/param/asp/psearch.asp?FAM=threaded&FT_294=253395&FT_158=251777&FT_6175=253412&FT_2603=113606&FT_101=1199&FT_1419=60358&FT_2044=133550&FT_104=4054&FT_6179=249697&FT_357=10971&FT_518=52165&FT_161=1442&session=threaded,294=253395,158=251777,6175=253412 ,2603=113606,101=1199,1419=60358,2044=133550,104=4 054,6179=249697,357=10971,518=52165;161=1442)
1/4"-20 (http://www.mcmaster.com/param/asp/psearch.asp?FAM=threaded&FT_294=253395&FT_158=251777&FT_6175=253412&FT_2603=113606&FT_101=1199&FT_1419=60358&FT_2044=133550&FT_104=4054&FT_6179=249697&FT_357=10971&FT_518=52165&FT_161=1444&session=threaded,294=253395,158=251777,6175=253412 ,2603=113606,101=1199,1419=60358,2044=133550,104=4 054,6179=249697,357=10971,518=52165;161=1444)
5/16"-18 (http://www.mcmaster.com/param/asp/psearch.asp?FAM=threaded&FT_294=253395&FT_158=251777&FT_6175=253412&FT_2603=113606&FT_101=1199&FT_1419=60358&FT_2044=133550&FT_104=4054&FT_6179=249697&FT_357=10971&FT_518=52165&FT_161=1446&session=threaded,294=253395,158=251777,6175=253412 ,2603=113606,101=1199,1419=60358,2044=133550,104=4 054,6179=249697,357=10971,518=52165;161=1446)
[URL="http://www.mcmaster.com/param/asp/psearch.asp?FAM=threaded&FT_294=253395&FT_158=251777&FT_6175=253412&FT_2603=113606&FT_101=1199&FT_1419=60358&FT_2044=133550&FT_104=4054&FT_6179=249697&FT_357=10971&FT_518=52165&FT_161=1448&session=threaded,294=253395,158=251777,6175=253412 ,2603=113606,101=1199,1419=60358,2044=133550,104=4 054,6179=249697,357=10971,518=52165;161=1448"]3/8"-16 (http://www.mcmaster.com/param/asp/psearch.asp?FAM=threaded&FT_294=253395&FT_158=251777&FT_6175=253412&FT_2603=113606&FT_101=1199&FT_1419=60358&FT_2044=133550&FT_104=4054&FT_6179=249697&FT_357=10971&FT_518=52165&FT_161=1448&session=threaded,294=253395,158=251777,6175=253412 ,2603=113606,101=1199,1419=60358,2044=133550,104=4 054,6179=249697,357=10971,518=52165;161=1448)

Base Diameterhttp://www.mcmaster.com/param/images/threaded/90973a029_basedia.gif3/4" (http://www.mcmaster.com/param/asp/psearch.asp?FAM=threaded&FT_294=253395&FT_158=251777&FT_6175=253412&FT_2603=113606&FT_101=1199&FT_1419=60358&FT_2044=133550&FT_104=4054&FT_6179=249697&FT_357=10971&FT_518=52165&FT_541=22706&session=threaded,294=253395,158=251777,6175=253412 ,2603=113606,101=1199,1419=60358,2044=133550,104=4 054,6179=249697,357=10971,518=52165;541=22706) | 7/8" (http://www.mcmaster.com/param/asp/psearch.asp?FAM=threaded&FT_294=253395&FT_158=251777&FT_6175=253412&FT_2603=113606&FT_101=1199&FT_1419=60358&FT_2044=133550&FT_104=4054&FT_6179=249697&FT_357=10971&FT_518=52165&FT_541=22707&session=threaded,294=253395,158=251777,6175=253412 ,2603=113606,101=1199,1419=60358,2044=133550,104=4 054,6179=249697,357=10971,518=52165;541=22707) | 1" (http://www.mcmaster.com/param/asp/psearch.asp?FAM=threaded&FT_294=253395&FT_158=251777&FT_6175=253412&FT_2603=113606&FT_101=1199&FT_1419=60358&FT_2044=133550&FT_104=4054&FT_6179=249697&FT_357=10971&FT_518=52165&FT_541=22708&session=threaded,294=253395,158=251777,6175=253412 ,2603=113606,101=1199,1419=60358,2044=133550,104=4 054,6179=249697,357=10971,518=52165;541=22708) Barrel Diameterhttp://www.mcmaster.com/param/images/threaded/90973a029_bardia.gif.311" (http://www.mcmaster.com/param/asp/psearch.asp?FAM=threaded&FT_294=253395&FT_158=251777&FT_6175=253412&FT_2603=113606&FT_101=1199&FT_1419=60358&FT_2044=133550&FT_104=4054&FT_6179=249697&FT_357=10971&FT_518=52165&FT_1731=113315&session=threaded,294=253395,158=251777,6175=253412 ,2603=113606,101=1199,1419=60358,2044=133550,104=4 054,6179=249697,357=10971,518=52165;1731=113315) | .391" (http://www.mcmaster.com/param/asp/psearch.asp?FAM=threaded&FT_294=253395&FT_158=251777&FT_6175=253412&FT_2603=113606&FT_101=1199&FT_1419=60358&FT_2044=133550&FT_104=4054&FT_6179=249697&FT_357=10971&FT_518=52165&FT_1731=113317&session=threaded,294=253395,158=251777,6175=253412 ,2603=113606,101=1199,1419=60358,2044=133550,104=4 054,6179=249697,357=10971,518=52165;1731=113317) | .468" (http://www.mcmaster.com/param/asp/psearch.asp?FAM=threaded&FT_294=253395&FT_158=251777&FT_6175=253412&FT_2603=113606&FT_101=1199&FT_1419=60358&FT_2044=133550&FT_104=4054&FT_6179=249697&FT_357=10971&FT_518=52165&FT_1731=113318&session=threaded,294=253395,158=251777,6175=253412 ,2603=113606,101=1199,1419=60358,2044=133550,104=4 054,6179=249697,357=10971,518=52165;1731=113318) Barrel Heighthttp://www.mcmaster.com/param/images/threaded/90973a029_barht.gif3/8" (http://www.mcmaster.com/param/asp/psearch.asp?FAM=threaded&FT_294=253395&FT_158=251777&FT_6175=253412&FT_2603=113606&FT_101=1199&FT_1419=60358&FT_2044=133550&FT_104=4054&FT_6179=249697&FT_357=10971&FT_518=52165&FT_356=10956&session=threaded,294=253395,158=251777,6175=253412 ,2603=113606,101=1199,1419=60358,2044=133550,104=4 054,6179=249697,357=10971,518=52165;356=10956) | 1/2" (http://www.mcmaster.com/param/asp/psearch.asp?FAM=threaded&FT_294=253395&FT_158=251777&FT_6175=253412&FT_2603=113606&FT_101=1199&FT_1419=60358&FT_2044=133550&FT_104=4054&FT_6179=249697&FT_357=10971&FT_518=52165&FT_356=10958&session=threaded,294=253395,158=251777,6175=253412 ,2603=113606,101=1199,1419=60358,2044=133550,104=4 054,6179=249697,357=10971,518=52165;356=10958)
These 6 products match your selections
Internal Thread Size http://www.mcmaster.com/param/css/desc_arrow.gifBase DiameterBarrel DiameterBarrel Height 10-243/4".311"3/8"90973A040 (http://www.mcmaster.com/param/asp/psearch.asp?FAM=threaded&FT_294=253395&FT_158=251777&FT_6175=253412&FT_2603=113606&FT_101=1199&FT_1419=60358&FT_2044=133550&FT_104=4054&FT_6179=249697&FT_357=10971&FT_518=52165&FT_161=1442&FT_869=71844&FT_541=22706&FT_1731=113315&FT_356=10956&ppe=6&session=threaded,294=253395,158=251777,6175=253412 ,2603=113606,101=1199,1419=60358,2044=133550,104=4 054,6179=249697,357=10971,518=52165;M;I)$6.04 per Pack of 10
1/4"-203/4".311"3/8"90973A029 (http://www.mcmaster.com/param/asp/psearch.asp?FAM=threaded&FT_294=253395&FT_158=251777&FT_6175=253412&FT_2603=113606&FT_101=1199&FT_1419=60358&FT_2044=133550&FT_104=4054&FT_6179=249697&FT_357=10971&FT_518=52165&FT_161=1444&FT_869=32977&FT_541=22706&FT_1731=113315&FT_356=10956&ppe=6&session=threaded,294=253395,158=251777,6175=253412 ,2603=113606,101=1199,1419=60358,2044=133550,104=4 054,6179=249697,357=10971,518=52165;M;I)6.26 per Pack of 10
1/4"-203/4".311"1/2"90973A114 (http://www.mcmaster.com/param/asp/psearch.asp?FAM=threaded&FT_294=253395&FT_158=251777&FT_6175=253412&FT_2603=113606&FT_101=1199&FT_1419=60358&FT_2044=133550&FT_104=4054&FT_6179=249697&FT_357=10971&FT_518=52165&FT_161=1444&FT_869=32977&FT_541=22706&FT_1731=113315&FT_356=10958&ppe=6&session=threaded,294=253395,158=251777,6175=253412 ,2603=113606,101=1199,1419=60358,2044=133550,104=4 054,6179=249697,357=10971,518=52165;M;I)9.26 per Pack of 10
5/16"-187/8".391"3/8"90973A115 (http://www.mcmaster.com/param/asp/psearch.asp?FAM=threaded&FT_294=253395&FT_158=251777&FT_6175=253412&FT_2603=113606&FT_101=1199&FT_1419=60358&FT_2044=133550&FT_104=4054&FT_6179=249697&FT_357=10971&FT_518=52165&FT_161=1446&FT_869=33062&FT_541=22707&FT_1731=113317&FT_356=10956&ppe=6&session=threaded,294=253395,158=251777,6175=253412 ,2603=113606,101=1199,1419=60358,2044=133550,104=4 054,6179=249697,357=10971,518=52165;M;I)9.72 per Pack of 10
5/16"-187/8".391"1/2"90973A116 (http://www.mcmaster.com/param/asp/psearch.asp?FAM=threaded&FT_294=253395&FT_158=251777&FT_6175=253412&FT_2603=113606&FT_101=1199&FT_1419=60358&FT_2044=133550&FT_104=4054&FT_6179=249697&FT_357=10971&FT_518=52165&FT_161=1446&FT_869=33062&FT_541=22707&FT_1731=113317&FT_356=10958&ppe=6&session=threaded,294=253395,158=251777,6175=253412 ,2603=113606,101=1199,1419=60358,2044=133550,104=4 054,6179=249697,357=10971,518=52165;M;I)9.92 per Pack of 10
3/8"-161".468"3/8"90973A120 (http://www.mcmaster.com/param/asp/psearch.asp?FAM=threaded&FT_294=253395&FT_158=251777&FT_6175=253412&FT_2603=113606&FT_101=1199&FT_1419=60358&FT_2044=133550&FT_104=4054&FT_6179=249697&FT_357=10971&FT_518=52165&FT_161=1448&FT_869=71702&FT_541=22708&FT_1731=113318&FT_356=10956&ppe=6&session=threaded,294=253395,158=251777,6175=253412 ,2603=113606,101=1199,1419=60358,2044=133550,104=4 054,6179=249697,357=10971,518=52165;M;I)2.08 per Pack of 1

DonziJon
12-28-2008, 11:51 AM
Thanks George. I HAVE seen those before. The barbs are designed to Bite into something soft....like wood, and become semi permanent.. :yes: John

Conquistador_del_mar
12-28-2008, 12:05 PM
Here's a picture of how I solved this issue on the Minx;



These are SST TEE nuts I installed where the glass over the wood strip was pretty thin. I then backed them up with some thick epoxy. There're two sizes here, 1/4-20 for the deck joint, and 10-24 for the rub rail. When I get to that point on the TR, I'll probably just use them on the sides of the cockpit and up in the end of the bow.

George,
That looks like a great way to through bolt the deck to the hull, and you could do that without a helper. When you say you then backed them up with some thick epoxy, I am guessing you mean on the inside to help keep the T-nut sharp tabs from penetrating any farther into the hull than when you cinched them into place which would also help lock the flat head machine screws into place. Bill

Trueser
12-28-2008, 12:48 PM
I used thread locking nuts with washers. And a 9 year old to crawl around the inside.

zelatore
12-28-2008, 01:11 PM
I used thread locking nuts with washers. And a 9 year old to crawl around the inside.

I knew I was missing something by not having kids.... free labor!

Of course, I do understand there are some hidden costs.

BigGrizzly
12-28-2008, 03:41 PM
You Noticed he said 9 years old, after that the hidden cost isn't the problem, attitude is. Me I only through bolt the seams and some easy to reach. Another nice touch is glassed in nuts. Our 16 has 142 through bolted with nylocks, not again, I am too fat.

gcarter
12-28-2008, 06:56 PM
George,
That looks like a great way to through bolt the deck to the hull, and you could do that without a helper. When you say you then backed them up with some thick epoxy, I am guessing you mean on the inside to help keep the T-nut sharp tabs from penetrating any farther into the hull than when you cinched them into place which would also help lock the flat head machine screws into place. Bill
Actually Bill, the inside of the gunnel isn't flat, or perpendicular, so the bottom teeth penetrate deeper than the top teeth. Also notice the screws installed to make it easier to keep everything aligned. Once everything's in place, I apply the epoxy to keep them from falling out while putting it all together.
But it's a great system because of the one person possibilities. Also, use some "Blue" thread locker to lubricate the screws and keep them form galling.

DonziJon
12-28-2008, 07:12 PM
I mapped all the original screws and replaced most with Nylok nuts,bolts, and washers. There were a total of 43 fasteners on each side of the boat. (Minx) Not all were replaced with bolts..primarily because of access.. or lack of.

The first 6 fasteners back from the bow.. on each side were left as stock. Too hard to get to and not a real impact or flex problem.
A few (3 or 4?) amidships were left stock because getting at the nuts would have been a problem because of interference from wiring and conduit..etc.
I added a 6" circular access port just behind the stock throttle mount and another one directly opposite on the port side.

This was done with the deck ON and everything in place..as stock. John