Need a little 16 Restoration Advice

[Sweet Cheekz]

I have been surfing a lot of threads looking for suggestions on my little project I started this fall. I am completely redoing a 1981 sweet 16 and I was wondering a few things about the Drive.
Has anyone used a stern jack extention box on this application and if so what happened?
What is the deal with the Alpha SS drives I keep seeing pop up on this board in various conversations? I assume it is a shorty lower for an Alpha and they don't make them anymore. Any info would be appreciated.
Any suggestions from anyone who has owned or rebuilt a 16 would be appreciated.
Thanks NK

[Sweet Cheekz]

More updates

[mattyboy]

Cig,

welcome

do you have a HIN on this boat??? there were not many 16's made in the 80's
and what drive and power did the boat come with?? there are a few members who have re done a 16

[Donziweasel]

Alpha SS is no longer made, but can add 8-10 mph.

[Sweet Cheekz]

I do have the vin number off the back which I have taken off and will put a new one on when I'm done and save the old one. It has an alpha but I'm not sure what it had, if not that. I would not know how to tell.
Am I correct that the ss is just a shorter lower? Nk

[Lenny]

I do have the vin number off the back which I have taken off and will put a new one on when I'm done and save the old one. It has an alpha but I'm not sure what it had, if not that. I would not know how to tell.
Am I correct that the ss is just a shorter lower? Nk

Yes, the Alpha SS is 2 3/4" shorter than stock. I also have an extension of 8" ( SternJack) and the SS. Not sure what stock is, but my tired 260HP Merc with 400 hours puts me into 71 GPS in the chop alone with light fuel. :D That is an 18 tho.

[Sweet Cheekz]

Lenny
Do you like the stern jack? Are they still in business? Any problems with the ss? Thanks

[Lenny]

Lenny
Do you like the stern jack? Are they still in business? Any problems with the ss? Thanks

I love the stern jack. No, they are not in business doing this anymore. It provides considerable bow lift (with trim) as opposed to just the shortie only.

No problems with the SS.

[mattyboy]

cig ,

the reason i asked about the HIN would be to get a hull number, there is a chance this might be one of the last skisporters made it does have some weird things on it like the 18 side rails instead of the wrap around hand rail
if you have any serial numbers that might help id the boat

good luck on the project :)

[BERTRAM BOY]

cig ,
the reason i asked about the HIN would be to get a hull number, there is a chance this might be one of the last skisporters made it does have some weird things on it like the 18 side rails instead of the wrap around hand rail
if you have any serial numbers that might help id the boat
good luck on the project :)


Matty is 100% correct. Also, I don't think your boat is an '81. It may be registered as such, but I believe that the last ski-sporter was built sometime in early 1980.

[Sweet Cheekz]

I will dig it up today I would be interested in knowing that Does it make any difference one way or the other? Thanks

[Donziweasel]

Am I correct that the ss is just a shorter lower? Nk

From what I understand, the Alpha SS is not interchangable with a regular Alpha. You can not simply take an SS lower and bolt it to and Alpha upper without major modifications.

There is one for sale in the parts for sale section for 3500.00

[BERTRAM BOY]

Here's a link to my project.


http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=36261

[Sweet Cheekz]

From what I understand, the Alpha SS is not interchangable with a regular Alpha. You can not simply take an SS lower and bolt it to and Alpha upper without major modifications.

There is one for sale in the parts for sale section for 3500.00

Am I right though that you can bolt a complete ss drive to a gen 1 transom assembly?

[Sweet Cheekz]

Does anyone know if there were ever any Berkely jetdrives installed in these boats? My bilge looks to have a repair that could have been a jet drive according to someone who would know Thanks

[BERTRAM BOY]

Is it a repair, or is it a block of wood glassed into the bottom to mount a bilge pump. That is very common.

[Lenny]

Am I right though that you can bolt a complete ss drive to a gen 1 transom assembly?

Yes...

[mattyboy]

I will dig it up today I would be interested in knowing that Does it make any difference one way or the other? Thanks

it really doesn't matter to your project but more for history sake as the skisporter was dropped from production in 1980 and you find very few 79's or 80's in general so i was just looking for some info as they don't come along that often and I was curious

just as a side note the boat is a port helm boat and if it was a merc it probably was a lh alpha do they make a LH SS??? not that a rh drive and a port helm boat is a big problem there are some older boats that are setup that way some just need a tad of trim tab

if it is not as Bertramboy said a pad for the bilge pump it could be a thru hull water pickup for the cooling water my 16 had a setup like that

[BERTRAM BOY]

I don't believe that there were any jet drives installed in 16's. There were a few V-drives though.

Also, you can make your own LH Alpha SS by using a LH sportmaster outboard case.

[mattyboy]

Cliff

there were a a few I almost bought one mid 70's if I remember correctly

[Sweet Cheekz]

Is it a repair, or is it a block of wood glassed into the bottom to mount a bilge pump. That is very common.

It looks like a repair directly under the motor between the transom and the first bulkhead on the very bottom of the hull about 10-12"s wide and maybe 2' long. Can't see the repair on the bottom of the boat though.

[BERTRAM BOY]

Does it look like this one?

[Sweet Cheekz]

Good gawd man, did ya have to blind us with those legs?

No way it looks like that, my legs are way more tan then that! Plus I have better shoes.

The repair is a little wider and a little shorter but close. I guess it will stay a mystery.

[BigGrizzly]

Gee If I had legs like that I would sue for non support.:wink:

[BERTRAM BOY]

You guys are killing me....next time I'll make sure I wear my $400 Prada's.:):):)

I really don't think you have a repair. I looks like a bilge pump mounting block.

[mattyboy]

16 squirt

real or not I don't know it was along time ago

factory or not i dunno could be an unrigged hull that left the factory and someone put the jet drive in??

[Sweet Cheekz]

More pics including the bottom of the bilge
HIN FLZA18130681

[Sweet Cheekz]

I don't believe that there were any jet drives installed in 16's. There were a few V-drives though.

Also, you can make your own LH Alpha SS by using a LH sportmaster outboard case.

Pardon me for being a dumbass but how does this work?
Also I can move the steering to the starboard if I want. I would rather stay on the left and I am planning on a center counsel like a skater with the throttle in the middle giving me the ability to throttle from either side. Will a rh drive and a port side driver make the boat dive to the left when I am airborne?
I got a ss alpha today :cool:
NK

[Sweet Cheekz]

While I am at it another question. Anyone know what kind of resin was used in 80-81? The fiberglass is green, common color of vinelyster and there is a shabbily done deck repair with brown looking fiberglass, traditionally polyester resin I am told. Just curious if the green is a form of poyester since the vinyester seems unlikely The hull and deck are both green.
Has anyone ever taken the time to blueprint the bottm and seen any results worth the effort?
Thanks for all the input guys Donzi's have never been my strong suit. Cig

[Sweet Cheekz]

it really doesn't matter to your project but more for history sake as the skisporter was dropped from production in 1980 and you find very few 79's or 80's in general so i was just looking for some info as they don't come along that often and I was curious

just as a side note the boat is a port helm boat and if it was a merc it probably was a lh alpha do they make a LH SS??? not that a rh drive and a port helm boat is a big problem there are some older boats that are setup that way some just need a tad of trim tab

if it is not as Bertramboy said a pad for the bilge pump it could be a thru hull water pickup for the cooling water my 16 had a setup like that

Was there an ownership change at this time? What caused the stopping of this model and the aparent new beginning of the same boat?

[Lenny]

While I am at it another question. Anyone know what kind of resin was used in 80-81? The fiberglass is green, common color of vinelyster and there is a shabbily done deck repair with brown looking fiberglass, traditionally polyester resin I am told. Just curious if the green is a form of poyester since the vinyester seems unlikely The hull and deck are both green.
Has anyone ever taken the time to blueprint the bottm and seen any results worth the effort?
Thanks for all the input guys Donzi's have never been my strong suit. Cig

Dye can be added to any ISO, VE, PE mix from the supplier/manufacturer. Hard to tell which is which.

VE resin can come promoted or un-promoted. Once promoted as in (CoNap) , cobalt napthenate , is present you will get the green colour. VE resin that is un-promoted will NEVER cure with Catalyst (MEKP) alone. It needs to be promoted.

Un-promoted VE resin has a longer shelf life than promoted. BUT, you need to become a chemist and add this to the batch prior to using it.

***** MEKP (catalyst) and CoNap mixed directly together become literally a BOMB :eek: You will not be around for it to see it take place.

[BigGrizzly]

Don't waste your time blueprinting the bottom. Besides which 16 bottom are you going to use.

[Sweet Cheekz]

Thanks on both notes

[mattyboy]

Was there an ownership change at this time? What caused the stopping of this model and the aparent new beginning of the same boat?



I have a theory on why it was dropped from production but it needs to be researched , again it really wasn't the same boat , when the 16 came back it was 10 years later and the helm was on the other side as well as the beam was a little narrower supposedly the plug for the re born "sweet 16" mold was taken off a donzi splash when they re-introduced it 1990

[Sweet Cheekz]

Was 1981 the last year for 10? Did Donzi have the same owners during this time?

[Lenny]

I have a theory on why it was dropped from production but it needs to be researched , again it really wasn't the same boat , when the 16 came back it was 10 years later and the helm was on the other side as well as the beam was a little narrower supposedly the plug for the re born "sweet 16" mold was taken off a donzi splash when they re-introduced it 1990

Matty, are you saying DONZI splashed a "Splash" ??? :eek:

:)

[mattyboy]

Matty, are you saying DONZI splashed a "Splash" ??? :eek:

:)



yes that is the story

[mattyboy]

Was 1981 the last year for 10? Did Donzi have the same owners during this time?

no 1980 was the last year for the skisporter, 1980 was in the Chisholm ownership , the company was bought by Mr Staples in 1985 who held it for about 3 years and then OMC took over and put Dick Genth in charge a former Staples employee in 1988. in 1990 OMC reintroduced the 16 footer as "the Sweet 16" it was right hand helm powered by an omc drive and then later by merc drives.

there are no 1981 16's yours is probably an older one registered as an 81 look up by the bow eye for a hull number the HIN you gave is most likely given by the state of florida when it was registered.


the story of them splashing a splash does make sense as the splash already had a rh helm and it saved time on fabricating a deck .

[BERTRAM BOY]

Is there an inprinted HIN on the transom?

[Rootsy]

More pics including the bottom of the bilge
HIN FLZA18130681

Tis a NG HIN... Appears to be a Florida issued replacement. Hmmmm...

[Sweet Cheekz]

Interesting
I will check up front today. The hin I read is off a bronze plate screwed to the inside of the transom and is stamped with Donzi Marine and then the hin below it. Very old and difficult to read Do these numbers seem fake? I always thought the hin showed the month and year and which number hull it was for that year. Is that not the case? I really don't even care what year it is because it is going to be a brand new boat anyway but I would like to have it be accurate if that is possible.

[Sweet Cheekz]

Is there an inprinted HIN on the transom?

I did not see one or any evidence there ever was one

[Sweet Cheekz]

Tis a NG HIN... Appears to be a Florida issued replacement. Hmmmm...

Whats a NG? Who puts their registration on a plate and mounts it to the back of the inside of the transom? Seems like a lot of work This boat has had some wacky history I think At some point someone smahed into something on the starboard side amd had a significant and poorly done repair.

[BERTRAM BOY]

Anyone else thinking this is actually an older hull???

Judging by the dash panel, it could be an early 70's boat.

[Sweet Cheekz]

Ask and ye shall receive

[Sweet Cheekz]

Were all ski sporters lh steer? How do we figure this out?

[Rootsy]

Were all ski sporters lh steer? How do we figure this out?

More or less... until AMH brought the 16 back to life in the early / mid 90's...

NG = No Good....

[mattyboy]

Poodle

yes that was my thought , that's why i mentioned looking by the bow eye backing plate to see if there is a hull number there

up until 1980 all 16's were left hand helm WITH the exception of the 16 Baby which was an outboard which meant RH rotation so the helm was put on the right so the deck is different from a Skisporter as it also has an OB well in it.


so up until 1980 all 16 that were not Babies are called skisporters . then all 16 foot Donzi production stopped for a decade then when it was reintroduced in 1990 it was a right hand helm boat and stayed that way.in the mid 90's the lounge seating was dropped and the 2+2 seating was adopted

so let's recap


NAME DESCRIPTION
UP UNTIL 1980

16 skisporter left hand helm lounge or _! seating i/o , jet or v drive

16 Baby right hand helm Lounge or L seating OB only

AFTER 1990

Sweet 16 right hand helm lounge or L seating I/O drive

16 Classic right hand helm 2+2 seating I/O or OB



each one of these boats has a different deck

here is a link to pictures of each model it is being updated and is a work in progress

http://www.donzi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=514

[Sweet Cheekz]

No luck in the front of the boat. No other numbers anywhere
Am I guessing right that we can never really figure out what year this boat is? Does everyone agree that its probably a mid 70's skisporter?

[mattyboy]

if there has been no significant glass work done to the transom which would have covered the imprinted HIN than that means it never had one which would make the boat pre nov 72 .

[Sweet Cheekz]

It apears from the inside glass that it never had any repairs on the transom till now Would the hin have been on the starboard top of the transom outside? Etched into the fiberglass? What year was the first 16's built.

[Donziweasel]

what year was the first 16's built.

1964

[mattyboy]

It apears from the inside glass that it never had any repairs on the transom till now Would the hin have been on the starboard top of the transom outside? Etched into the fiberglass? What year was the first 16's built.

yes that is correct, transom upper right hand side.
judging from the vent layout this is not a real early 16 but perhaps a 68-72 can you get to the tank if it has not been replaced it will have a tag or label on it with production dates of the tank. hull numbers written on the back of the dash, we know there were no numbers by the bow eye some were also marked on the stringers in the bilge but that was not too common

[Sweet Cheekz]

We scoured the hull today, Nothing.
I do have the dash and the tank is out of the boat so I will check both of those tomorrow.
Do you guys think it matters if I steer from either side with a rh ss drive?

[BERTRAM BOY]

Did you look behind the dash (where I circled)? It looks like it might be gone. Also, look on the backing block for the boweye.

[mattyboy]

if you are going to rework the seating area I would drive from same side as the prop rotation rh drive rh helm

[Sweet Cheekz]

Did you look behind the dash (where I circled)? It looks like it might be gone. Also, look on the backing block for the boweye.
The main part of the dash under the red is a metal dash plate I still have The rest of that area I threw away but I will look near where you circled. There was nothing anywhere up front or on the inside or outside of the transom other than that plate I showed.
Mattyboy what will be the difference? I have not had a single engine boat for twenty years and I have never had a boat this small. Just Curious. I really want to sit on the left side and throttle from the middle but I could do anything I want at this stage Thanks

[mattyboy]

well the 16 is a deep vee that can and will dip hard to one side when re entering the water and will roll way up on it's side it is a very capable boat but it does take alot of seat time it is a world of difference from from a 35 foot cig with twins don't get me wrong i loved my 16 and it is a blast to drive but it can be a little un-nerving at first

so prop torque can have adverse handling effects on a small single, prop selection is the key .

the comment about the side to drive is a rule of thumb but some classics have been re done with new merc stuff with a LH helm and a rh prop rotation and the boats run well some just need a little tab .

the 16 is a ride on boat, not a ride in boat. if your are redoing the seating and going to a dual bucket setup you'll want to get the buckets as low as possible on my 16 it was bolted to the floor giving the driver more of an in the boat feeling , everyone else was on the boat but that sensation adds to the feeling of speed

as an example 50 mph in a 16 will feel like 80 in a 35 cafe racer

perhaps a lh bravo with a shorty would be the route to take . center throttle dual buckets sounds like an interesting project :)

[Sweet Cheekz]

I cut the bottom of the innerliner out and am glassing a new floor in which is going to be at least 2 inches lower and I am using a pair of my old skater buckets, cut down, and mounted to the floor. I am hopeing to be 4-5 inches lower and with a foot pad built in under the dash I should be able to pin myself and the passenger in pretty tight
I already bought an ss alpha and I have the rebuilt regular alpha that came on it so I won't be going bravo.
I want to have a small lightweight center pod for the throttles so we could have a two man operation when my 9 year old grows up enough to start driving. No way he throttles with me in the boat! Plus I need more space for gauges, gps, stereo, switches ect.
This will be a cross between a skater and a donzi I hope. I figure there are enough beautiful restored sweet 16's here so I am going to think outside the box a little we'll see what happens

BTW I bet there is fewer 80mph cafes than 70 mph sweet 16's

[Sweet Cheekz]

Mattyboy
Do you have a pic of your 16?

[mattyboy]

yes i do ooohh they bring back memories :wink: never should have sold her :frown:

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=40879&d=1228148527

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=40880&d=1228148527

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=40881&d=1228148527

[Rootsy]

On the backside of the dash mounting surface, the area where Cliff circled in the photo. Is the glass unfinished, ie, unpainted, etc? The hull number was written on the plywood in magic marker, etc and then glassed over. It is sometimes difficult to see but if you use a wet rag to wipe down the glass it is easier to make out or tell if there is anything there.

Here is the backside of my '66 18 dash as an example...

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/jaroot13/1966_18_Donzi/1966C1810586.jpg

[Sweet Cheekz]

Nice ride Mattyboy Do you have a boat now?
My boat was very similar to yours other than the whole "Its a real piece of ****" thing, mine that is. What year was yours? They seem to have the same dash but different rail. Everything else looks the same
Roostey Thanks I will check that out this weekend

[mattyboy]

mine was a 1967 registered as a 1968 yes they are very similar thru the years maybe a different dash plate or vent layout( mine has 2 yours as 4) .basically the boat was unchanged for years

shopping for a replacement now, looking at an 18 to 24 classic deep vee with some heritage or Aronow lineage

[Sweet Cheekz]

Well good luck with the search I will update some pics in a couple of weeks Thanks for all the good advice and Happy Holidays to all. Thanks
Parnell

[mattyboy]

Thanks
yes you too Happy Holidays

yup it is winter so pics are good


:)

[Sweet Cheekz]

Fit the deck on today to put in some bulkheads, fit seats and layout the dash Ordered the new tank which will be here in 2 weeks and then the floor goes in for good. 2 new vents to replace the stainless engine vents More next week. Nk

[Sweet Cheekz]

Glassing new dash

[Sweet Cheekz]

Now I need to know where to mount the trim tabs. I need to reinforce the transom in this area Any help on how far away from the outside edge would be greatly appreciated soon. Thanks NK