New toy

[captdennisgray]

Hey everyone ,, I just purchased a 1976 St Tropez that is in very good condition. It presently has a Ford 302 in it with the volvo outdrive. When it was last run, it was capable of 52mph. I am wanting to repower with the mercruiser fuel injected engine and a bravo 1 outdrive. I talked with Scot at Victory and he put together a pretty nice package for me. I am wondering if the 350 - 300hp will be able to get the speed up over 60mph or should I go with a little more HP... ( Yea I already know the response to that from most Donzi owners....... Always use MORE HP):yes: The other question I have is will I need to put a powered fuel pump on the system for the fuel injected engine?

I will appreciate any info on this and if anyone can use the old drive and engine ,, let me know also.

Sorry I don't have any pictures to post at this time . I work offshore driving the slow, big boats.... Can't wait to get the St Tropez out and boiling some water........

Also, looking forward to getting to know some of the local Donzi experts in the area........:lifeprese::lifeprese::lifeprese:

[HOWARD O]

Hey Capt. Gray,

Welcome to the registry and congrats on the St. Tropez....very cool boat! Before you do anything about repowering her, please read this thread, you might find it of some interest!

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=55202

Can't wait to hear more and see some photos!


Howard

[BigGrizzly]

There is a good chance it will get there propped correctly. I saw a nice one at lake george that seemed to do it.

[cutwater]

Welcome! However, please consider keeping the Ford/Volvo package! BigGrizz can get you propped correctly.

[captdennisgray]

Thanks Howard O for the interesting reading.. SO do you think putting in the 350 mercruiser and a volvo DP outdrive would be a good combo?

I really want to get away from the carb's on the engine , that's one of the reasons i prefer the injected systems......

I definitely thought of just rebuilding the original ford engine and never even thought about the volvo dp .... that might be a really good way to go and probably save a little coin in the long run that could go on some other updates on the boat......


Just a last kikker.... Would it be better to try to keep everything as original as possible to keep the value up or would the upgrades in engine and outdrive not hurt?

Thanks for the great info guys ,, it is greatly appreciated..... It's is much better to discuss these things with people in the know, than to end up with a really big mess in the end.... Trying to do my homework first and get a good plan of attack before I start on this classy boat..

[DonziJon]

Welcome to the board Capt Gray: It's Always BEST to keep a Donzi as stock as you can.........Like This One. :yes: John

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=42033&highlight=mighty+mouse


Read the thread and don't forget to watch the Videos listed in Post #46.

[BigGrizzly]

In truth I AM against any change to the original ST Tropes classic. This is why I kept My Corsican As stock as possible with the engine etc. I spent many great hours diving off one off the Jersey shore.

[captdennisgray]

Thanks for the input guys... It was my original intent when I first saw this boat a few years ago to try and just rebuild everything to keep it original as possible. There are a few small things I will do just merely for safety issues. Though , all that has been said,,,, isn't there a point when newer technology would be a better option ?

[zelatore]

Might as well throw my two cents in.

I like your plan of keeping everything looking original but updating the power. A newer injected 350 teamed with a duoprop drive; keep the stock original look of the boat otherwise - no wild graphics or billet this and bling that. Maybe update the gauges and controls to newer ones if you’re stockers are in bad shape, but nothing wild. You end up with a reliable, every-day usable boat that still looks like a vintage piece.

I tend to vote that way with almost everything: cars, boats, bikes, etc.

Unless it's a big dollar rare piece, I like the 'resto-mod' path.

What are the 'slow big boats' you're running in your day job? And where?

[harbormaster]

I agree with zelatore. This boat will never recognize its potential with that antiquated drivetrain. If we were talking about a classic camaro it would be one thing, but we are talking about a piece of fiberglass that could always be taken back to original if it ever became worth ALOT.

Till then it should be upgraded to its ful potential and enjoyed. No matter what drivetrain it has it is still a rare desireable Donzi....

Yes I am the yahoo who put an inboard engine in the only O/B 22 classic...

[captdennisgray]

Zelatore,

The big slow boats are 170' mini Supply boats. I am presently working out of Louisiana for Abdon Callais Offshore. I went back to the offshore boats after my divorce 3 years ago. The pay out here is pretty decent and alowed me to get back on my feet in short order.

I ran a 74' Custom sportfisher based out of Freeport, TX prior to what I am doing now. That 74' was basically a Don Aronow designed cigerette hull. Boat has links to Don as far as my research was able to dig into. The boat is called AKELA if you are interested in checking it out, the web address is : www.akela74sf.com (http://www.akela74sf.com)

As for my plans with the St Tropez,, Rebuild the 302 ford if upon teardown inspection it deams feasible. May go ahead and swap to a volvo DP to help tame the squirliness that the previous owners stated was an issue.. Basically wanting to make it a reliable fun run about to be able to go to the different Donzi events . I want to have some fun on my time off and make some new friends along the way. What better way, than in the cockpit of a DONZI !!!!!

Harbormaster ...... can you give me an idea what the Volvo Duoprop might run in dollar amount? Need to see how much extra coin I need to stash away.

Again,,,, I want to thank those who have responded.. Hope to meet you all out on the water someday..........

Take care everyone and Happy Holidays to all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[BUIZILLA]

Capt, allow me to make a suggestion.... just my .02....

this is what *I* would do....

you say the 302 runs?, so it can't be that bad of a starting point....

with that said, you can get a 347 rotating assembly, a decent set of GT40 heads, 4 bbl intake, and a marine 600 carb, and have a blast pretty cheap... the 347 with good heads will run MUCH better than you think, I wouldn't consider the EFI route at this point.... once you get the 347 back in the hole and running well, the RIGHT prop choice with your current drive may surprise you, and save you money on a new drive conversion...

like I said, you will be very surprised, and happy, with the 347 setup using your current drive, and the RIGHT prop.

good luck.. :shades:

[rustnrot]

My vote: Fill the transom, bracket, big outboard, t-top, rocket launchers, keep rest of boat vintage looking. And never fish with it just look the part.

[Morgan's Cloud]

SO ! There are a few St T's kicking around somewhere .........
Hey there Dennis ..... I'm one of the St Tropez folks here ... one of about 3 it seems .

Mine is reportedly a 66 and I've owned it since -87. It had a light resto then and I've just completed a full 5 year resto that had the boat taken down to its component pieces.
Basically it looks the same as original except ,like you said , it benefits from all 'new technology'.
Personally I'd be surprised if your really getting 52 with your setup . I originally had 351 with an Alpha and on a good day saw 50 !


What is the exact condition of yours ? The year of manufacture sounds a little suspicious as I thought the St T's were not made after -73 .. May be wrong there though . As I ask any St T owners I find .... Does yours have one fuel tank or two ?
I guarantee you , if you have 2 .. meaning a forward tank under the deck it will more than likely be rotten.

Also beware of stress cracks in the hull along the full length strakes about 3' forward of the transom.
The cockpit floor also looses it's support over the years on either side of the console and you may be seeing cracks also.
These cracks are NOT cosmetic , they're actually structural and need to be fixed properly .

Not a single inch of mine , inside or out , has been untouched. I may be able to offer a few pointers .'

Also , we have another member here who has a 350MAG/Bravo combo in his St T. He comes and visits only ocasionally. The last time I spoke with him he was still propping his boat but was seeing a bit over 60 at that point.
I can assure you , there is a huge difference between 60 and 50 on a St Tropez . You've gotta be on your toes with these boats !

Steve

[gcarter]

I agree with zelatore.



Scot, you should NEVER agree w/Don!!!:nilly::nilly:

He's hard enough to get along with as it is!! :wink::wink::)

[captdennisgray]

OK , I am getting some really good input from everyone so far... The previous owners say that this is a 1976 model St T. I am presently offshore working and won't be back home until Jan. 7, 2009 so can't confirm that at this time....Lucky me , get to spend the holidays out in the Gulf.:):) (pulled the boat over and put it in the garage and left for my 28 day stay offshore the next day)

When I get back I will be looking up all the info I can and put it out here... From what I hear, there are not many St. T's out there and one of my main draws to this particular boat.... The previous owners are really good friends and I actually started to pull the engine and out drive two years ago.. Things happened and never got to finish it ... Now all the dust is settled and they offered to sell it to me for what I feel is a steel...... The agreement in the deal is to get it back up and running as it has a lot of sentimental value to the ladies I bought it from... Really want them to get out and enjoy the boat again and see the look on their faces when I bring it to the beach house the first time after all the necessary testing...

I think my approach thus far is to go ahead and rebuild the original engine if it is in good enough condition to do so ... may have to go with a new crate or re-man ..... as for the outdrive,,,,, leaning towards the duo prop just to see if it really will tame it down a bit.. and as far as trying to go 60+ in a 19' very light boat ....... Yeah!!! At least once !!!!!!! then I will keep it throttled back but knowing it can be done :nilly::cool!:... Then I will try to see if I can live past 65 years old someday.......and still have the boat to play with.

[captdennisgray]

Just got confirmation that this is a 1976 model St Tropez. The engine is a 351 Ford Winsor Cobra with the volvo outdrive (think its the 280 with power tilt ) the boat has very little useage over the years from what I have been able to obtain.. Spent a lot of its life sitting on the trailer. Has not been run in nearly six years..... the 351 cobra explains the 51mph ...



Also, if anyone is interested in a Formula 233 check it out on craigslist.
HAs a 383 stroker motor but needs a new outdrive...
http://houston.craigslist.org/boa/939601370.html

[cutwater]

Just got confirmation that this is a 1976 model St Tropez. The engine is a 351 Ford Winsor Cobra with the volvo outdrive (think its the 280 with power tilt ) the boat has very little useage over the years from what I have been able to obtain.. Spent a lot of its life sitting on the trailer. Has not been run in nearly six years..... the 351 cobra explains the 51mph ...

C'mon, now you're really killin me here! Keep it original. That's a good drive, good engine. :)

[BUIZILLA]

now you've gone and done it....

:yes:

[BigGrizzly]

With that engine and the right prop:), it should do 60, I have seen it before.

[Morgan's Cloud]

Aargh .... The photos open up 'SMALL" ......

There is something familiar about that yellow one ... maybe we've seen a few pictures of it around here elsewhere ..

That's a good lower unit Dennis .... Like Randy says , it ought to be doing more than that .

Steve

[DonziJon]

Aargh .... The photos open up 'SMALL" ......
.
Steve

TOTALLY Small. John

[zelatore]

Scot, you should NEVER agree w/Don!!!:nilly::nilly:

He's hard enough to get along with as it is!! :wink::wink::)

Crap. And I just bought a new bigger hat too!

[captdennisgray]

Ok OK OK i get it that the pics open up small,,,,, That wasn't under my control.... Realize that I am on a boat , offshore, with barely enough of a signal to get my laptop online... I thought I did good just to get the pics on the site at all,,, I promise to get better pics when I get off this big tub and can walk on dry land again... that won't be until after the first of the year....

I agree that the boat should do better than what was stated but all the info has not been posted ,,( Gotta leave you guys with a few questions to ask also) The previous owners did mention that the motor was acting a little weak when they last ran it in the river and noted the 51 mph speed. I am sure that it will do better but am leaning to putting on the duo prop . I think that will really settle her down and get the top end up over 60...... Don't worry , I will keep the original outdrive to convert back if I ever decide to move up to a 38' super boat...:biggrin::biggrin:

The 351 is already un-bolted and ready to yank out.. I had the opportunity to start that project two years ago.. (long story as to why I didn't finish it then , so don't ask why) I have known the previous owners for almost ten years if that helps......

Would like to know how many 1976 models were actually built and if this might be the last St T that was made... Anyone know how to grab that info?

[Morgan's Cloud]

As far as deciding what to do 'engine wise' this could get a bit messy if ya ask me .....
It seems that even though the engine ran , it was a bit weak. I can't really tell by the photo , but it doesn't really look like an OMC engine to me. (It thats HUGE picture ... :biggrin: )
Then there's the question of how they got a Ford based engine *and a pretty new one to boot* bolted up to a 280 transom plate . All of the 280's I saw were mated to GM based blocks. (still , not a huge issue ) but expect a suitable complete Volvo re-power package to go for around $20 G.
You have a very desireable 280T unit which is probably in excellent shape.
TO the best of my knowledge there is NO DP unit that just replaces your 280 drive. To do that you'd have to remove everything there and fill the transom and re-cut a new hole for the new equipment.
The newest Volvo stuff has the same cutout as Merc now.
If either the engine OR the drive were junked it would be a little more cut and dried , but if it were me , I'd probably be looking at getting the engine up to snuff again and keeping all of that good stuff on the transom !
Does this boat have any strange handling characteristics that are causing you to be thinking about putting a DP on it ?
Scott ... how do you find out this stuff ? ? :boggled:
Can you tell me anything about mine .... No numbers anywhere , but it is blue ! ! :bonk: :kingme:

[BigGrizzly]

Actually there was a duo prop bolt on to the lower leg of the 270->290 drives.

[captdennisgray]

Scott, I have never had the pleasure of riding in this boat .. I am only going by what the last owners have told me about the boat.. They are quite well versed in boating.....

AS for the engine, It will be rebuilt at this time and the lower unit will be checked out as well.. The usual necessary items that deteriorate over time will be replaced (wiring , switches, throttle and steering cables ). As a safety plus I might change the running lights out to the new LED types.


With some of the info that has come in ( MadPoodle) saying that this may be the last ST TRopez built lends itself to staying as original as possible...

[BUIZILLA]

Fordmotorsports.com shows a 250hp 351 crate package for around $2600 retail, you can't beat that

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Just got confirmation that this is a 1976 model St Tropez. The engine is a 351 Ford Winsor Cobra with the volvo outdrive (think its the 280 with power tilt ) the boat has very little useage over the years from what I have been able to obtain.. Spent a lot of its life sitting on the trailer. Has not been run in nearly six years..... the 351 cobra explains the 51mph ...



Also, if anyone is interested in a Formula 233 check it out on craigslist.
HAs a 383 stroker motor but needs a new outdrive...
http://houston.craigslist.org/boa/939601370.html

Captain,
Is the Formula 233 CC fishing boat your boat or one you know about? I restored one of those in about 1992, changing it to a light blue Imron. They are great boats for the rough inland waters that we have here at Lake Texoma. I sold the one I had with a SBC, but the new owner has installed a BBC and still loves it. I might have kept it, but I could not get in the shallow waters to get my bait (shad). When you get back in from your trip, I would sure like to see more pictures of it - including the custom engine cover. Bill

[captdennisgray]

After further investigation and due to the info from MadPoodle about this St Tropez possibly being the last one built..... I had the previous owners dilligently dig for the paperwork associated to this boat.... Final results are as follows: Confirmed 1976 St Tropez , Hull # 102 , outdrive is a Volvo 280 commander , and the engine is the Ford 302ci 200hp commander .. To sum it up THE LAST ST TROPEZ BUILT !

What an interesting twist ..... With that info in hand ,,,, This ST TROPEZ will be brought back to life in as near original condition as I can possibly make it...... ( I knew there was something special about this boat when I first saw it )

Needless to say , I am totally STOKED to find out this info and very fortunate that the previous owners wanted me to have this boat.... Be assured that when this boat is splashed again ,,,, they will be the first ones getting to share the champagne and sea spray !!!!:yes::yes::yes:

Can't wait to get this boat running again !!

AS a special note to all the detail oriented folks on this site...... I will be documenting everything (with photos) as to what is done to this valuable classic Donzi.........

[captdennisgray]

MadPoodle,,, The pics I posted were sent to me via EMAIL and I am a little dissapointed in their size also.... I will definitely make sure the next series will be at least large enough for you to use that really big magnifying glass,,,, or better yet you can borrow one of those super microscopes from the hospital......:wink::rlol::rlol::biggrin::biggrin:


I will be taking the next set , so i will make sure they will fit your big screen

[mattyboy]

what I nice find !!!!!
happy to hear it is going to be kept as original as possible for a rare classic
the ford volvo combo is reliable and the 280 can be modified for trim plus with the new solas props performance will not be hurt nose cones are also available
keep us posted and make sure you put the dustoff on your schedule that boat would be a big hit up there

[BUIZILLA]

I think you can make that 351 a stock appearing 400coughcoughsomethingcoughcough... :yes:

[captdennisgray]

Buizilla, Please note the latest update of the running gear in the boat..... It turns out to be a 302 200 horse,, The previous owners were not real sure on the engine and at first stated it was the 351 winsor cobra,, don't think those came out until 1978...


Sorry for the confusion.... Yes I could bump it from a FORD to the more preferred (In My Chevy Biased opinion) Mercruiser 525.... Wouldn't that be a screamer ???? But I am a more realistic person and don't have a death wish at this time... SO I will honor the Donzi Gods and keep her all original (For Now!! ).


Have we considered a small jet engine ???:nilly::shades::shocking::shocking:

[BigGrizzly]

Now your talking. My 16 classic and 18 Corsican are Ford, the Criterion is a chevy. However I have no masker preference and found all can be fast, which is all that matters. My old Doge van had over 1,000,000 miles on it before a engine rebuild. That is what I cared about. So no brand bashing from me. The 302 Ford is a great boat engine.

[captdennisgray]

I'm sorry,,, didn't think i was bashing .... I agree totally, all major manufactured engine company's have very successful engines ... and a lot of them really do go quite fast ...... I merely voiced a little ole opinion... seems we all have those, thats what makes this board so much fun to chat on.....

[BigGrizzly]

You were not bashing, I just wanted to keep the other wolves at bey

[captdennisgray]

This is a question for the Supreme Donzi World GURU's ........
I am sure this is a question you all cringe at when it is put out here but I am merely asking as a general info question,,,,

SO here Goes..... Since this is probably the last St Tropez built , can any of you give me a ball park figure of what it might possibly be valued at ?


Let me be very clear that I have NO intentions of selling this boat !!!!

I am merely curious as to what you think at this time... I have a figure in my head and wonder if I am in the same ball park as the Knowledgeable ones.... Thanks in advance for anyone willing to respond..... I think MadPoodle would be the key person to help answer this...

If you don't want it out on the board please PM me.. Your inputs will be greatly valued..........

[mattyboy]

are you looking for resale value or insurance replacement value???

[captdennisgray]

Preferrably , present retail market value. But wouldn't mind insurance value also. Thanks !

[Morgan's Cloud]

It's worth what the person who buys it willing to pay on the day you sell it :biggrin:

No , seriously Dennis ... Many times in the past someone here has shown up with an old Donzi that they thought was 'rare' or different somehow based on what the seller told them , only to find out that in reality it is just a 38-40 year old boat with 'Donzi' on the side of it ..

The main thing is that it has special value to you and it is in fact a really neat boat !

Steve

[captdennisgray]

Thanks for the great words of wisdom old wise one...... I totally agree with you on what you say... We all know what we have invested in the boats dollar wise but we still have that itch to know "did I get a really decent deal on an old boat that might have some nostalgic value "...

But , we all know, their is no value or price that can be offered to compare to the personal values we place in our Donzi's.. We all painstakingly and meticulously wash , polish, and maintain them to their utmost glory.... that is something we can never truly put a value on except in our own hearts and minds.......

[mattyboy]

current market value

somewhere between 5k and 18k


current insurance replacement value ( basically if the boat was stolen or destroyed) what you would want to get to replace it

25k-40k this depends on how much you want to pay in premiums

[captdennisgray]

Thanks for that info.... I was in the right ball park.....

Like Steve said earlier ,,,,it depends on how much someone really wants it and how much they want to pay to get it........

[captdennisgray]

This is a question to the serious boat rebuilders out here on this forum...

I am curious of how much trouble it would be to bump up from the 302 to a 351.... Being pretty much the same block, I don't see why there would be much problems in bolting it in to the existing set-up on my St Tropez..... Just looking for a little feedback on this..

Also, Is there a difference in the bolt pattern from the 1976 year engine to the newer ones that can be purchased as a crate motor ?

Any suggestions on where to appropiate a new 351 crate marine engine ?
I'm sure there are some reputable sellers out there and then there are the not so .......

I appreciate any info on this....

My St. Tropez has the extension (Adapter) between the engine and the outdrive) ...

[mattyboy]

I believe the 351 is a little taller, not sure if clearance is an issue on the hatch in a St tropez. but that aside i think everything else is pretty much the same

crate motors can be found from ford motorsports or jasper

[captdennisgray]

Thanks ! Mattyboy, I didn't foresee any probs and hiegth is definitely not an issue. Doesn't Jasper just deal in remanufactured motors ?

[mattyboy]

yes Jasper is reman'd , I think they make a 310 or 320 hp 351w marinized a few ski guys by me swear by them, do you have pics of the existing motor that are larger?? the exhaust might be an issue depending on the distance to the transom. the 351 is higher and if the current risers were like the ones on my 351 they ended about 3 inches from the tips with a small 5 inch piece of exhaust hose so there is not alot of room to make up the difference in height so if you go to a 351w you might need to go to center risers or dare I say it drill and fill the transom :eek:
what is your clearance above the motor with the hatch down??


also looking at some pics W I D T H with the 351w might also be a problem with exhausts.
hard to tell but by using the transom housing as a guide look at how tight your tips are to the housing, and look at how far mine are apart, again my riser logs are basically in line with the tips only about 3 inches apart


again it is tough to see with the smaller pics , but this is not the end of the world just kind of one of those things if you don't plan for it becomes PITA

[Morgan's Cloud]

Dennis ,
I wasn't aware that there were any external differences between the 302 and the 351 but if anyone here knows if there is a mounting height difference between an Alpha and a Volvo 200/250/270/280 unit it would be helpfull ...

My old package was a 351/Alpha (as I've mentioned before) with centre rise manifolds and the 4V Holley with a tallish 2.75" flame arrestor. There was ample clearance all around for the engine box to shut cleanly and the exhaust manifolds just squeezed inside the deck liner with a weeny bit of clearance. (more on one side than the other for some strange reason :biggrin: )

If you can get a 351 with 250hp or more at the prop you will be very pleased with how your boat goes ... believe me ......

Steve

[BigGrizzly]

The height and tail pipe difference isn't a real issue. I would rather fabricate a tail pipe then hole in the stern- been there and done that.

[captdennisgray]

Again thanks for the info guys... I will have to get the tape measure out when I get home to see just how much clearance I will have with the exhaust.... Seems like whenever you change motors in something , be car or boat , it seems the exhaust turns into your biggest headache........

I wouldn't have a problem with modifiying the engine cover if need be.. Might be kinda cool to have a box all the way across as a sun deck for the bikini girls !!!!!


Since this boats set up has the spacer between the engine and outdrive that does leave some room for playing with rubber hoses ,,, doesn't it ?

[Morgan's Cloud]

Oh , btw Dennis ,

You've mentioned this 'spacer' thing before .. It might not be a bad idea to post a picture when you get back on shore just so we know for sure that you don't have some sort of 'special installation' that we're overlooking.
You can never be too sure ...
I'd think it unlikely , but who knows , you might have a jack shafted installation ? ?

[BigGrizzly]

The spacer he is talking about is the 6 to 8 from the bell housing to the outdrive. it was a std H&M thing It has a bearing in the end to stabilize the long input shaft. This way the engine doesn't fit right up aginst the transom as in some early 18s

[captdennisgray]

Steve, I know that the pics really suck..... Be patient and I will have a really good set posted by Jan. 10th.... I promise!!!!!!!!!


Grizzly is correct I believe... This spacer is placed between the engine and the transom and is approximately 14-16 inches long (as best as my memory serves)... first glancing at it you would think it was a transmission. It does make the engine set more towards the bow. I would assume it had something to do with moving the engine weight forward a bit.... Seems like just something else you have to fool with when it goes bad :wrench::biggrin:. Or should I say something else to BOAT..(break out another grand ) for............

If anyone knows the propper name for this thing-a-ma-jig ,,,, let me know.....

[BUIZILLA]

A Windsor is a Windsor... what's the issue?

[BigGrizzly]

It was called an adapter. However I have no idea what it was adapting. The reason H&M put it in was because their log manifold would fit up against the transom and tail pipes were next to impossible to attach hoses to.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

It was called an adapter. However I have no idea what it was adapting. The reason H&M put it in was because their log manifold would fit up against the transom and tail pipes were next to impossible to attach hoses to.

Wouldn't it be called an adapter since it adapts the bell housing to the transom drive assembly? - just guessing. I had my choice of two bell housings with their adapters when I installed the Chevy engine in my 1971 18' Donzi to the Volvo Penta drive. I went with the one that was 2" shorter than the other, but I did have to buy some smaller Glenwood aluminum risers to allow enough distance from the transom to attach the exhaust hoses to the exhaust tips (and that is after I cut off the extra lengths of both the exhaust tips and risers by about 1" each). The adapters that I have are two different lengths with different length drive shafts, but they both use the same two bearings and seals in the adapters with grease fittings to lube the bearings. They are 1.75" length different if I remember correctly. Bill

[BigGrizzly]

The Chevy bell housing bolts to the engine and gore directly through the transom plate and the bellows is on the end of it. The adapter actually has the borg bolt pattern on it and is about the size of a C17 trans.

[mattyboy]

I thought the 351w is a basic 302 with an extended deck height and thicker cyl walls?? if the deck is higher as a 90 degree motor it puts the exhaust higher and wider not much maybe an inch or so . my point there is no room even to make up a half inch with the log style risers I don't have a pic of my set up but here is a twin 351 setup in a gt same as mine single . notice how short the exhaust hose is, my point was yes it is not a huge problem but will be easier with center riser as the outlet is in the center of the motor and with the blue slicone hose it is easy to make up the difference.

you can see the adaptor ( intermediate housing) on the port motor in that pic

[mattyboy]

Let me see if i have any other pics of the intermediate housing they were used on both ford and chevy volvo setups

[joseph m. hahnl]

Hears a link that will tell you the difference in the Ford Windsor series:crossfing:.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Windsor_engine

Matty is correct that the 351 has a taller deck:yes:.

The article indicates that the 302 boss & 351W had chronic rod failure at high rpm do to the rod bolts being to small:wrench::wrench::wrench:



Something to keep in mind when your rebuilding is to change the size with the Chevy bolts as recommended in the article:eek:

Any way it makes for a good read:yes:. joe

[BUIZILLA]

there used to be a marine company down here, actually across the street from Mako, that built the marine Clevor engines... they were real powerhouse setups for what they were...

[captdennisgray]

I knew if I threw some tech questions out there I would get some good responses.. Thanks Joe for the interesting read on the ford motors.. That was some info I was really looking for.

I am better with GM engines than I am with Fords.....

I am hoping that the previous owners still have the owners manual and the shop manuals hidden away somewhere...

I will agree for now and we will call it an adapter or a drive shaft extension housing.....

Thanks guys for kickin back with some interesting info....

[Tank]

Hi Capt Gray
Welcome aboard! No one is talking about St Tropez’s so I will give your post a Bump.
Wanted to say hi and nice boat, I would love to see some bigger photos of your Tropez.
I have not bin here for some time but still around.
Brian
PS I am an old ford fan now into chevys but it should not be to hard to rebuild your 302 not stock and wake it up. Ha ha.
PSS yes I to have a st tropez

[captdennisgray]

Thanks for the bump, Tank.... I needed a little kick to get some new pics of my boat.. Finally drug her out of the garage today, gave her a bath, put the cushions back in AND actually took a few pics.......

[olredalert]

------Dennis,,,Very nice!!! Just looking at these pics it seems as though you dont have much to do except mechanical. Thats one of the most original St.Tropez's I have seen. St.Tropez's were generally run hard and put away wet, so to speak, as they were just so darn useful. Good luck with your project..........Bill S

[BUIZILLA]

last weekend at Elliott we saw a St Tropez go right by us that I have never seen before, looked GREAT, maroon/white with the name GAIL FORCE on the side, really wish we could have chatted but he motored on by... really caught my eye..

[captdennisgray]

Thanks Bill for the comments.....

Yes, this St. Tropez is all original as far as I know... It looks this good as it has road the trailer a lot more than it has the waves...

I am almost finished with the re-modeling of my house and I am about to jump on getting this little hot rod back on the water for the summer...

Plan on ordering the engine next week, yanking the old one out and pulling the outdrive off. Still haven't decided on the 302 or the 351. Would be nice to pump up the existing 302 to around 300 hp.... The 351 is rated for 300-325hp.. Just want to be able to use all the existing hardware off the old engine (302) and not sure the exhaust will match up on the 351. Hoping they will ...

There are a few little cosmetic problems but it can get back on the water with just the mechanical issues taken care of and still look pretty good.

Definitely will have to replace the steering wheel and cables, probably put a Livorsi throttle/shifter also. Will probably do a little re-wiring as needed.

All in all , I say a few good long weeekends will have her ready To splash again.... MAN I CAN'T WAIT TO BLAST AROUND ON THIS ST T.:nilly::yes::yes:

[olredalert]

------Dennis,,,Cant remember weather I mentioned in another post, but there are many 347 crate motors (stroked 302) out there within reason pricewise. What a 347 gets you is no deck-height change and therefore no change in relation to your exhaust holes, as well as way more power (torque) than a 302. Those rear-exit exhaust manifolds end really close to the transom and make it difficult to re-attach the exhaust hoses when there is anything even a little out of alignment. You kind of get the best of both the 302 and the 351 this way. Torque is what you want in your St.Tropez, not gobs of horsies IMHO. You could conceiveably buy a complete short-block and re-man all your other existing hardware if you feel like doing a bit more of your own work. The heads on your engine as pictured do leave something to be desired, though. Holman-Moody actually has a really nice 302 intake if you like the idea of using the original manufacturer. Just a few thoughts. Hope they help........Bill S

[harbormaster]

Dennis

I have been burned in effigy numerous times on many websites for changing my one of a kind "crap" outboard 22 to the boat it should have been.

I personally disgree with the folks trying to keep YOUR boat old original. They are not the ones who have to drive it and keep it running with old technology hardware.

Its not like its a Yenko camaro ....
Its made of fiberglass and can be changed back.
Just take your original drivetrain and store it. If it ever get worth millions you can always change it back....

Scot. (hearing poodle load the snappy comeback weapon...)

[Morgan's Cloud]

:party: :party: Hurray ... some full sized pics ........ :biggrin.:

Welcome back ashore Captain ! I was wondering when we were going to hear from you .

Maybe this will give Tank some extra incentive too .

Here's two questions for you ... What is under the access port on the forward cockpit floor in front of the lazarette ? I have a good feeling I know because mine never had one before but now it does .
Also , I don't think the teak door on the console is 'factory' what does it give direct access to ?

I notice that the water pump pulley on yours actually extends forward and above (luckilly) the flooring in the engine room area.
This doesn't happen with the 351/Alpha installations as the engine sits back about 6 inches further than yours.

Steve

[captdennisgray]

Steve,

If you are talking about the access port on the deck centered on the bow seating area,,,,, that is access to the fuel tank sending unit....
The fuel tank sits up towards the bow , from access port to just even with the back of the bow seating.

The big hatch in the center of the deck just forward of the steering console is a storage box (fish box ).


Not sure if the teak door is original, but know it has been that way for a very long time... Gives access to all the wiring and storage under the console..

As I have tried to describe in my earlier post, there is an extension that moves the engine forward about 12-14 inches. I will try and get a better picture that shows it.

[captdennisgray]

A few more pics...

[BUIZILLA]

I really think you should just sell it to me and let me worry about it... :yes: :kingme:

[Morgan's Cloud]

So this brings me back to the St. T fuel tank question I always have to ask ..

You obviously have a bow tank , but is that the only one or is there one somewhere else ?

I also have one mounted on a platform under the console but the amount of space it occupies , plus all the wiring / steering components everywhere there's no purpose to put a door where yours is. In fact, my Hynautic reservalve sits on the inside of the console where your door is !

There is only room for a (roughly) 20 gallon tank under the bow , so I guess there is one somewhere else , but I couldn't see any other fills in your pictures.

[Tank]

WOW:eek: that’s one nice boat you found!
I wonder how she rides with the motor mounted forward.
That looks like a lot of carb for a stock 302 of course I do not know the cfm? Do you know if someone had don any mods to it?
And yes I would not hate to see a smc in it. But fords are cool to and something to say for being different.
Yup I am jealous!:yes:
Tank

[captdennisgray]

So far I have only found the one gas tank ... one filler cap....

If there is a second tank under the console , that might help explain the door.. though I think the door is just access for storage and to easily repair wiring and guages.

Have Harbormaster (Scott) checking on some engine combo's for me....

My main objective right now is to get the boat in the water for this summer.. Don't think I need to do any major rebuilding at this time except for the motor.. I could probably put all the wiring back on , bolts back in , starter back on, clean the carb , put a little lube in the cylinders, change the plugs, install a new gel cell battery, put a little gas in it and turn the key......(It might even run at that point!!!)

Main reason to yank the engine out is to put on a new pan.. think the present one might have a leak due to rusting through..

Oh well,, Lots of options at this time.... Would like to splash her again by the end of May.... I'm sure I could get it in the water faster if I dropped it off at Harbormaster's facilities and hand him a blank check....

Sorry Scott,, just ran out of checks..... But I can send you one in the mail :) if that will get things done............

[captdennisgray]

Just a little update,,, thanks to Harbormaster's help, I obtained a new Ford 302 long block for the St T. Now all i need is a few days off with nothing else to do but work on the St T. :crossfing::crossfing::clap:

[MOP]

Sounds good, been wondering where you were in getting her ready.

Phil

[BigGrizzly]

I have spent many hours in a S TR. when I was younger, with the 302 it was a sweet boat, not a rocket but very respectable. Harbormaster is the man.:worthy::worthy: He gives so much and get so little back. I guess that is what this board is about.:yes: There are many others out there too, I just won't name them because I would probably forget someone or be typing all day.

[captdennisgray]

Hey Big,,,, Just because it's a 302 and I said it is a new long block ,,,,, don't mean it ain't been tweeked up a notch or two .... Can't tell you guys everything that I might be doing to this St T. :boat: Gotta keep your interest peeked just a little... Fun thing about these forums and these boats....... never know what someones got till you run with them on the water !!!:beer::biggrin.::biggrin.:

[BigGrizzly]

I was not going to out guess anybody at this point. I am so wrapped up in my on stuff I am missing a lot. My real point was that is a great boat, especially if you scuba. You really get a lot of boat in a 19 foot package.

[captdennisgray]

Sorry if I hit a nerve with you Grizz,,, All the smilies were ment that I was pulling your chain a little...:wink: You are definitely right about the St T being a lot of boat for 19' .... Very functional and spacious for fishing , diving , cruising or partying....just wish there was a little more seating,, nothing a couple of bean bags won't take care of .. take care and hope to run our boats together someday.....:cool!:

[BigGrizzly]

Cap, you did not hit a nerve. I just love the ST Tr. Maybe its just memories but I doubt it, it is just a cool boat. as for the engine, some really amazing stuff has been done with them. My son's Mustang with a 5.0 had 503 HP at the rear wheels. I have gotten to the point that a boat can go just so fast before things happen too fast. At this point I am experimenting with better economy and the same power, the trick is if I can do it. At this point my 502 is better then a stocker, now I am trying to better that. I want it all.

[captdennisgray]

Grizz, I am definitely with you on the fact that the St Tropez's are cool boats.. Glad to hear that you have such good memories on them...

I am also with you on the point that to fast means the S""t hits the fan even faster..... Seen that happen to to many race boats over the years..

Good luck on the "cake and eat it too" philosophy.

Only thing that I know that would make the 302 a little better is to put fuel injection on it rather than a carb,, electronic ignition and computer control would be assets also....

Man ,,, it seems like there are endless possibilities,,, only governed by our bank account.:rlol::biggrin.::biggrin.:

[BigGrizzly]

I hear the bank account thing, mine is now empty. At least I got some stuff with it.:biggrin.: