Seepage........??

[fogducker III]

So I have noticed the last couple of times out that I have a couple of gallons of water in the bilge when I pull out..........yes, not a big deal but frustrating when I can not find out where it is originating from?

I have checked and double checked the thru hull fittings I installed with the new steering, it does not appear to come from there, when I had the leg and top section off I inspected the bellows, no moisture in there, I tightened all the stern thru hull hardware as well. While sitting in the water I lift the hatch to see if I can see any seeping from anywhere....no luck..

Wondering if the cooling system is leaking from somewhere? Is there a way of testing/checking? I really have no idea and was wondering if you can "pressurize" the system to make a leak more visable?

PS. Does anybody have a contact with the Terminator's office in California? Any chance of him taking back his migrating herd of stinky, fish swallowing bovine on steroids? God damn are these things big! I swear, one bull was the size of my boat, and in my yellow "big bird" suit (as somebody from Ont. pointed out) I think he was eyeing me up...:shocking: Thing would have taken me and the boat out if he was in the "mounting" mood..............:eek:

These things have moved in and taken over the outside docks at Cowichan Bay...........I have seen them all around here for years but not in these numbers and not staying in the same area for so long......:confused:

[mattyboy]

did you redo the speedo when you re-did the gauges?? is it working????

a quick test well maybe not so quick leave the boat dunked at the ramp for an hour or so and see if it is picking up water then run the motor for 10-20 minutes and see if there is water if not then take a ride 10-20 minutes at varying speeds and check again of course for this test don't make sharp hard turns or come off plane quickly then try the sharp turns and come of plane quickly


i had a problem like that and it only happened when i was running .
it took a few runs for me to corrilate the speedo n/w to the water in the bilge, but even when fixed when the water was big i would pick up some water from waves hitting the back and making hard turns forcing water between the deck and hull joint
on your 18 i don't think that will be possible as the seam is most likely sealed

[fogducker III]

did you redo the speedo when you re-did the gauges?? is it working????

Good though Matty, but I blocked the speedo line at the leg as well as at the thru hull fitting, just to be sure I blocked the line at the dash as well, I don't run a speedo, I installed a GPS/Map Plotter..........:frown:

[Donziweasel]

Jeremy, I had the same problem once. It ended up being a hairline crack in the water pump. As the engine warmed up, the crack would expand a little and leak water in the bildge, drove me CRAZY for a year until I found it. Wouldn't do it cold though.
Look there perhaps? How is my boat running? Haven't put it away for the winter have you?

Man, give me a year or two and I am a comin' back to visit, with Supercharged Critter in tow! To this day, still some of the coolest boating I have ever done. Look forward to hangin out again soon. Tell Mark I said hi.

[fogducker III]

Jeremy, I had the same problem once. It ended up being a hairline crack in the water pump. As the engine warmed up, the crack would expand a little and leak water in the bildge, drove me CRAZY for a year until I found it. Wouldn't do it cold though.
Look there perhaps? How is my boat running? Haven't put it away for the winter have you?

Man, give me a year or two and I am a comin' back to visit, with Supercharged Critter in tow! To this day, still some of the coolest boating I have ever done. Look forward to hangin out again soon. Tell Mark I said hi.

You are welcome here ANY time, "your" boat is warm as a bug in a rug in my heated garage, ready to go at a moments notice..........:wink:

Funny you should say the water pump, when I first got the boat up here I fired her up and water pump was pissing like a race horse, replaced it with a marine grade, stainless guts, and has been good to go since.......I am still leaning towards a cooling system leak because I am almost 100% that the thru hull fittings are OK............but I can not find a wet spot..:nilly:


I missed Mark on Sunday by minutes...........I will say hi for ya when I see him.

If we get down to AOTH I expect to see you, Boo Boo, the twins and the Critter up here shortly after that!!!:boat:

[Ghost]

I would think running it out of the water with a hose/cooling flaps adapter on the drive and some sort of (non-staining) dye would find a cooling system leak very quickly. Just an idea.

As for the mammals, I saw a couple minutes of some report last night that said certain winds blowing offshore in CA have pushed the surface water out to sea, causing an upwelling of nutrient-rich, cool water from below. Causes a huge boom in the entire food chain. If you're seeing something that looks abnormal, I wonder if it might have any relation to any of that?They said this warming/cooling cycle off of CA has been observed before, and that it has a 25-40 year period. So, if they start humping the boat, it ought to end by about 2050 at the latest.

[fogducker III]

did you redo the speedo when you re-did the gauges?? is it working????

a quick test well maybe not so quick leave the boat dunked at the ramp for an hour or so and see if it is picking up water then run the motor for 10-20 minutes and see if there is water if not then take a ride 10-20 minutes at varying speeds and check again of course for this test don't make sharp hard turns or come off plane quickly then try the sharp turns and come of plane quickly


i had a problem like that and it only happened when i was running .
it took a few runs for me to corrilate the speedo n/w to the water in the bilge, but even when fixed when the water was big i would pick up some water from waves hitting the back and making hard turns forcing water between the deck and hull joint
on your 18 i don't think that will be possible as the seam is most likely sealed


VERY good plan, at least I could narrow it down to a "sitting" or "running" issue.............:yes:

[fogducker III]

I would think running it out of the water with a hose/cooling flaps adapter on the drive and some sort of (non-staining) dye would find a cooling system leak very quickly. Just an idea.

As for the mammals, I saw a couple minutes of some report last night that said certain winds blowing offshore in CA have pushed the surface water out to sea, causing an upwelling of nutrient-rich, cool water from below. Causes a huge boom in the entire food chain. If you're seeing something that looks abnormal, I wonder if it might have any relation to any of that?They said this warming/cooling cycle off of CA has been observed before, and that it has a 25-40 year period. So, if they start humping the boat, it ought to end by about 2050 at the latest.


LMFAO...........so if I paint the boat like an Orca will that detract them?

Good idea about running the cooling system on the trailer, I have a sea water strainer but could by-pass that with "muffs" on the leg and see if any water enters...? man are you guys smart.......:)

[zelatore]

PS. Does anybody have a contact with the Terminator's office in California? Any chance of him taking back his migrating herd of stinky, fish swallowing bovine on steroids? God damn are these things big! I swear, one bull was the size of my boat, and in my yellow "big bird" suit (as somebody from Ont. pointed out) I think he was eyeing me up...:shocking: Thing would have taken me and the boat out if he was in the "mounting" mood..............:eek:

These things have moved in and taken over the outside docks at Cowichan Bay...........I have seen them all around here for years but not in these numbers and not staying in the same area for so long......:confused:

We don't want 'em!

We keep a 60' slip at Pier 39 in San Francisco - right acrross from where they hang out. Those guys have their own set of slips - in fact, they've taken over a whole dock. The tourists love to come watch them, but the boaters hate 'em. They are HUGE and LOUD - I think a full grown male is around 1500-2000 lbs. I haven't seen it happen myself, but I've read about them sinking smaller boats by jumping up on the swim platforms. Assuming they don't just rip the platform right off, the weight is enough to pull the boat too low and get a thru-hull below the water line. Oops!

[Ghost]

LMFAO...........so if I paint the boat like an Orca will that detract them?

Brilliant, but you've got me thinking...perhaps even easier (and tons more fun) would be to tape a few whiskers on the bow of the next guy's boat... :)

[DonziJon]

YUP: Seepage from somewhere. I've had that problem. I crawled down into the engine room with my head below the engine...looking AFT with a flashlight. (Minx...IN the water) I could see a little "dribble" inside the transom .....running down from the transom hardware.

SO: I got a tube of BLACK Silicone Seal..swabbed the area around the transom assembly with alcohol, where the hardware contacts the transom.... Boat out of the water for quite awhile ....actually waiting til the following season, to dry things out. Lay a bead of Black Silicone completely around the transom assembly..maybe 1/16 inch wide. It works. Maybe NOT the complete answer but it's an inexpensive fix and doesn't hurt anything. Water intrusion is reduced noticeably. Black matches the OD.

My boat stays in the water for two weeks every year up at the lake. (Vacation) That's when I notice this stuff. Gives me something to occupy my mind when I'm not reading a book. :yes: John

[CHACHI]

Jeremy, I chased a water leak in my Minx for a long time, ended up being the drain plug sleeve in the transom. Thought it was the drain plug (rubber type) no matter how hard I tighten it it still leaked. Water was comming in from between the brass sleeve and the hole itself. I cut out the sleeve and installed the 1/2" screw in plug. End of problem

My 22 leak was from high water pressure. The boat could sit at 4000 RPM's all day and not a drop of water anywhere. As soon as I would run say over 50, water would start showing up in the bilge. I finally installed a water pressure relif valve with a seperate over board dump, no more water in the bilge. As soon as I can get back into the water next year, I will start grinding relief springs to lower the pressure even more, I would like to end up in the 15 to 18 pound range.

I believe my cooling system was developing over 40 psi when running because when I pressurized the system with a 40 psi pump(pump was at max pressure), water started to drip from 2-3 connections and a block drain.

Just some ideas.

Ken

[fogducker III]

Jeremy, I chased a water leak in my Minx for a long time, ended up being the drain plug sleeve in the transom. Thought it was the drain plug (rubber type) no matter how hard I tighten it it still leaked. Water was comming in from between the brass sleeve and the hole itself. I cut out the sleeve and installed the 1/2" screw in plug. End of problem

My 22 leak was from high water pressure. The boat could sit at 4000 RPM's all day and not a drop of water anywhere. As soon as I would run say over 50, water would start showing up in the bilge. I finally installed a water pressure relif valve with a seperate over board dump, no more water in the bilge. As soon as I can get back into the water next year, I will start grinding relief springs to lower the pressure even more, I would like to end up in the 15 to 18 pound range.

I believe my cooling system was developing over 40 psi when running because when I pressurized the system with a 40 psi pump(pump was at max pressure), water started to drip from 2-3 connections and a block drain.

Just some ideas.

Ken

Good suggestion about the drain plug Ken, that will be definatly one of the starting points, damn hard to see that far under the engine, I have a fitted brass insert with a threaded plug, but you never know.........

I have a raw water cooled engine through a sea water strainer, via the sea water pump and then through the normal engine water circulating pump, not sure the pressure it builds up but I think the suggestion earlier of trying the boat sitting in the water for a while, no engine running, see if any water appears. if it does it is as you suggest, drain plug or through hull fitting or as others have said, "a hole in the boat".

If no water there then go to the engine running test and that should tell me if it is a cooling/water circulating issue. If no luck there then go to the running at speed and see if it is a pressure issue and finally at speed with turns, jumps and pirouettes and failing that, SELL IT! :eek::nilly::bonk::wink:

[fogducker III]

Brilliant, but you've got me thinking...perhaps even easier (and tons more fun) would be to tape a few whiskers on the bow of the next guy's boat... :)


Your an evil man.................:orcawhale:

[fogducker III]

YUP: Seepage from somewhere. I've had that problem. I crawled down into the engine room with my head below the engine...looking AFT with a flashlight. (Minx...IN the water) I could see a little "dribble" inside the transom .....running down from the transom hardware.

SO: I got a tube of BLACK Silicone Seal..swabbed the area around the transom assembly with alcohol, where the hardware contacts the transom.... Boat out of the water for quite awhile ....actually waiting til the following season, to dry things out. Lay a bead of Black Silicone completely around the transom assembly..maybe 1/16 inch wide. It works. Maybe NOT the complete answer but it's an inexpensive fix and doesn't hurt anything. Water intrusion is reduced noticeably. Black matches the OD.

My boat stays in the water for two weeks every year up at the lake. (Vacation) That's when I notice this stuff. Gives me something to occupy my mind when I'm not reading a book. :yes: John

You very well may be right John, although I taped a piece of paper towel just under the inside gimbal housing ring...? I think that is what it is called? I thought of that as the first possible location for a leak, I couldn't see any moisture so I thought paper towel would show up anything, that was with the boat sitting in the water for an hour or two, unfortunatly I did not notice if there was more or less or the same amount of water in the bilge after this, I was watching , obviously the wrong spot, but the paper towel was dry as a bone...........:confused: this is why I am now looking for stranger places.....:boggled:

[gcarter]

My vote is high pressure.
I had the same problem w/the Minx. Never installed a relief valve, but I'm sure it would have solved the problem.

[MOP]

High pressure leaks can come from many sources, one more common place then many would expect is head gaskets leaking only externally.

After a hard run, run your hand along the seam between the block and the cylinder heads. With raw water cooling when you run hard the internal pressure in the block is at time 3-4 times higher then in an automotive system the gasket just can't handle it. When I was on the wrenches I would bet darn near half of the boats I serviced had seepage at that seam on many it was a bugger to get the rusted spark plugs.

[MOP]

I see Kenny brought up his drain plug, the tube style/rubber plug drain is in my eyes one of the biggest things to cause transom rot.

Now for my RANT!!!

Rarely are they installed with enough sealant or the split over time, the water seeps around them lays in the bilge and wicks into the transom wood. Now that is not bad enough, what makes it worse is very very few builders including Donzi do not isolate the stringers from the transom wood. During my refit I found my transom wood was rotten at the bottom and perfect about half up to the top, my stringer were wet about 4-5 feet forward of the transom but showing of very little discoloration. My boat now has a properly installed bronze screw in plug set in solid glass built up to nearly one inch with no wood at the very bottom. I cut the new transom wood square at he bottom running from the base of the stringers straight across, also the new stringers were totally encapsulated prior to install and isolated from the transom wood there by eliminating any possible future water intrusion . Many of you guys that read this may say gee I should swap over to that style plug setup may very well find the transom wet, hopefully you can dry it out and water has not gotten into the stringers.

[Lenny]

LMFAO...........so if I paint the boat like an Orca will that detract them?

:)

I wondered the same thing the last time I was out in a pod of Killer whales. I thought to myself, MAN, I bet I look just like them to them :eek: (black and white boat) Kinda creeped me out a bit...

My water pump in the LE had the same issue. No leaky then an hour later a few gallons. Hairline crack. No water in the bilge now.

Why not put about 5 gallons of fresh water into your boat on the trailer, raise the bow a bit and see if any comes OUT anywhere...

[fogducker III]

I wondered the same thing the last time I was out in a pod of Killer whales. I thought to myself, MAN, I bet I look just like them to them :eek: (black and white boat) Kinda creeped me out a bit...

My water pump in the LE had the same issue. No leaky then an hour later a few gallons. Hairline crack. No water in the bilge now.

Why not put about 5 gallons of fresh water into your boat on the trailer, raise the bow a bit and see if any comes OUT anywhere...

Not just another pretty face are ya...............:wink:

At least that will narrow it down if it is the drain plug or thru hull fitting..............:crossfing:

[Conquistador_del_mar]

I see Kenny brought up his drain plug, the tube style/rubber plug drain is in my eyes one of the biggest things to cause transom rot.

Now for my RANT!!!

Rarely are they installed with enough sealant or the split over time, the water seeps around them lays in the bilge and wicks into the transom wood. Now that is not bad enough, what makes it worse is very very few builders including Donzi do not isolate the stringers from the transom wood. During my refit I found my transom wood was rotten at the bottom and perfect about half up to the top, my stringer were wet about 4-5 feet forward of the transom but showing of very little discoloration. My boat now has a properly installed bronze screw in plug set in solid glass built up to nearly one inch with no wood at the very bottom. I cut the new transom wood square at he bottom running from the base of the stringers straight across, also the new stringers were totally encapsulated prior to install and isolated from the transom wood there by eliminating any possible future water intrusion . Many of you guys that read this may say gee I should swap over to that style plug setup may very well find the transom wet, hopefully you can dry it out and water has not gotten into the stringers.

On my 1971 18' restoration, I discovered the same thing about the drain hole. The brass sleeve had actually corroded over the 37 years, but I never liked the sleeve type drain through wood anyway - a leak waiting to happen. When I rebuilt the transom, I did the same thing where I installed solid fiberglass on the bottom 2" or so of the transom. After drilling the new drain hole through solid fiberglass, I sealed inside the hole with gelcoat and then installed a screw in SS Garboard drain plug fitting. Bill

[BigGrizzly]

The pressure magic number is 35 psi max after that a multitude of problems will happen. With my particular closed cooling system and the CMI hedders I actually have enough outlets that it never gets above 25 psi in the raw water system.

[BUIZILLA]

if a closed cooling FW system has a 7# cap..

why would you ever need more than that? :pizza: