What's She Worth

[mdiggs]

Well, I'm thinking about selling my 1967 Donzi 16 sometime during the summer of 2009.

My question is, what do you guys think she might be worth: what's the range I'm looking at?


Here are the details:

Year: 1967
Hull: 16369
Color: Red with white stripe and white deck, original
Interior: White ski-sporter L and captains chair with red piping, 5-7 years old. Still have original red if anyone wanted that (but it does burn your a$$ in the sun)
Engine/Drive: Ford 351, Volva Penta outdrive
Recent Work: rebuilt carburetor, new fancy fuel filter and lines, new exhaust manifold, cast iron, not aluminum
Ownership History:
My father bought the bought new in 1969, used it on a freshwater lake in Maryland during summer months from 1969-2002, gave it to me summer 2007.

The original engine was a Ford 30?, which he replaced with the current Ford 351 sometime in the mid to late 70s.

He had two other Donzis (a 21 and a Hornet 18) that reduced total number of hours on the 16'.

Trailer is stout: a single I-beam bent to shape, with nice tires, whitewalls!

[Donzi Vol]

I've got a couple questions. In a nutshell, would you say that she's an all original boat besides the motor and interior? Also, if the gelcoat is original, what condition is it in?

Good lookin boat...good luck with the sale!

-David

[Donzi Vol]

Forgot one thing...sorry. How well does she run/crank? They all need a little TLC...just a matter of how much:wink:

[mattyboy]

see if this helps sort of a guideline see where your boat fits


Price

0-$5000 : usually the low end of this range is a total wreck trees in the bilge, no motor or drive basically a hull needing a complete mechanical and cosemetic resto. The middle of this range could be a decent boat with one major flaw either mechanical or cosemetic either no/ bad motor and drive and a good hull or a good motor/drive and a bad hull wet stringers transom soft deck or in need of paint or gel. The higher end of this range would be a great boat in perfect shape with no power or a boat falling apart with a brand new "hot" motor

$4000-$7000 : usually and older original classic well maintained over it's life needing some work the lower end of the range would need some major need like a gas tank or an interior which today can be an issue or some glass work or less a trailer.
The high end of this range is a good boat that has no major needs maybe a buffing or a tune up or some minor help

$7000-$12,000 : the low end of this range is a GOOD boat mechanically and cosemeticly a turn key boat with a trailer hit the water and run, the high end of this range is the "mint" restoration where the boat has been gone thru and looks GREAT and runs Great

This guideline is for the older 16 and 18


some good things about a 67 16 the ones I have seen and the one I owned did not have coring in the deck just glass and pvc pipe supports which is a BIG plus no wet coring or soft deck to worry about, the 351w and the volvo are very strong and parts are available and not too expensive another plus.
The boat looks to be well cared for again a plus.

Now the possible negatives, The gas tank in a 67 is a problem if it hasn't been addressed will be the biggest minus of the boat and as in all boats if there is any major moisture or rot in the transom and stringers

If I can be of any help , I knew my boat fairly well and have been over other 67's so if you have a questions please ask

good luck with the sale

[mattyboy]

few more thoughts here, if it is hull 369 it was built in late 66 or Jan of 67 my hull was 410 and was built in April, also what does the steering wheel look like is it a 3 spoke wheel with 3 holes in each spoke or are the spokes slotted and is there the donzi prop logo in the center of the wheel?? the prop logo was common on the steering wheel in 67

[mdiggs]

I've got a couple questions. In a nutshell, would you say that she's an all original boat besides the motor and interior? Also, if the gelcoat is original, what condition is it in?

Good lookin boat...good luck with the sale!

-David
Yes. It's all original (walnut shifter, original steering wheel). My dad did add a speedo (it only came with a tach, I think) and a mirror.

The gelcoat is in decent condition. There are some small scratches, some striations here and there, and the hull has some fading (actually, the transom, which faced south all summer for 10 years and then west for another 20!), but I'll upload a couple of pics later today or tomorrow to show how well it shined up last summer.

[mdiggs]

Sounds like an original Donzi (Rocket) trailer?

I'll post a pic later of the trailer too.


Forgot one thing...sorry. How well does she run/crank? They all need a little TLC...just a matter of how much:wink:
She cranks faster than my nerves allow. I remember a race in the 80s where my dad hit 57mph, based on a very low tech speedo (which might not have actually been touching the water at the time!). Of course, that was a while back. I'll test it a nice calm day on the river next summer using my gps so I can give an accurate and honest answer to that question.


few more thoughts here, if it is hull 369 it was built in late 66 or Jan of 67 my hull was 410 and was built in April, also what does the steering wheel look like is it a 3 spoke wheel with 3 holes in each spoke or are the spokes slotted and is there the donzi prop logo in the center of the wheel?? the prop logo was common on the steering wheel in 67

Yeah, I love that wheel. It's the three spokes with three holes, not sure about the donzi prop. I'll have to check.

[mdiggs]

see if this helps sort of a guideline see where your boat fits


Price

0-$5000 : usually the low end of this range is a total wreck trees in the bilge, no motor or drive basically a hull needing a complete mechanical and cosemetic resto. The middle of this range could be a decent boat with one major flaw either mechanical or cosemetic either no/ bad motor and drive and a good hull or a good motor/drive and a bad hull wet stringers transom soft deck or in need of paint or gel. The higher end of this range would be a great boat in perfect shape with no power or a boat falling apart with a brand new "hot" motor

$4000-$7000 : usually and older original classic well maintained over it's life needing some work the lower end of the range would need some major need like a gas tank or an interior which today can be an issue or some glass work or less a trailer.
The high end of this range is a good boat that has no major needs maybe a buffing or a tune up or some minor help

$7000-$12,000 : the low end of this range is a GOOD boat mechanically and cosemeticly a turn key boat with a trailer hit the water and run, the high end of this range is the "mint" restoration where the boat has been gone thru and looks GREAT and runs Great

This guideline is for the older 16 and 18


some good things about a 67 16 the ones I have seen and the one I owned did not have coring in the deck just glass and pvc pipe supports which is a BIG plus no wet coring or soft deck to worry about, the 351w and the volvo are very strong and parts are available and not too expensive another plus.
The boat looks to be well cared for again a plus.

Now the possible negatives, The gas tank in a 67 is a problem if it hasn't been addressed will be the biggest minus of the boat and as in all boats if there is any major moisture or rot in the transom and stringers

If I can be of any help , I knew my boat fairly well and have been over other 67's so if you have a questions please ask

good luck with the sale

Thanks. For insurance purposes I went with 10k, but I wasn't sure of the value. I'll take more pictures in the spring too...of everything...engine, etc. It's a great boat. It ran rough last spring (you can check my old posts) due to some 5-6 year old gas and a tiny fuel filter filled with what looked like talcum powder. After I had the carb rebuilt and the fuel filter upgraded, old gas pumped out and new put it, it was heavenly. We did the exhaust manifold just for security, but the water leakage had not progressed to the point that there was any cylinder damage, etc.

I'll have to ask my dad about the gas tank. I don't think it was ever replaced or seriously serviced (except for the sucking we did last spring). Nonetheless, my father was scrupulous in his early days about winterizing, and the mountain lake where we kept it for 40 years was a really low humidity climate relative to most east coast locations.

[jl1962]

I think Matty is about right. The market is soft. My gut is 8k - 10k if all is right - maybe a little more to the "right" buyer. The gas tank is a big question mark - it is no small task to swap one out (deck off) and after 40 years it is probably time........

My only other comment is - why sell it at all? Do you have young children or cousins, nieces,nephews to give it to? My Dad owned a 67' Ski Sporter, purchased new in '68 and I waited over 30 years to get my own.....would love to find our old boat.....it's a Rosebud thing....

Intrinsically, these old boats ain't worth that much, but the good ones are time capsules and that's the kind of buyer you need to find if you need to sell.

-Jay

[mdiggs]

Sounds like an original Donzi (Rocket) trailer?

Here is a pic of the trailer. It says Certified on it. I know it's the trailer my father originally got with the boat, but whether it is a Rocket trailer, I'm not sure. It's been cleaned up since the picture too...new bunks, rollers straightened out...yeah, the trailer was used twice a year and no more.

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n232/mldiggs/Donzi/Summer07Trip083.jpg

[mdiggs]

I think Matty is about right. The market is soft. My gut is 8k - 10k if all is right - maybe a little more to the "right" buyer. The gas tank is a big question mark - it is no small task to swap one out (deck off) and after 40 years it is probably time........

My only other comment is - why sell it at all? Do you have young children or cousins, nieces,nephews to give it to? My Dad owned a 67' Ski Sporter, purchased new in '68 and I waited over 30 years to get my own.....would love to find our old boat.....it's a Rosebud thing....

Intrinsically, these old boats ain't worth that much, but the good ones are time capsules and that's the kind of buyer you need to find if you need to sell.

-Jay

Good question. You'll notice in the pics below that we have a storage problem. We have one of those narrow Portland Oregon driveways with a garage made for a Model T. But on top of that, we don't have lake front, aren't sure for how long we can justify renting a moorage on the Columbia River, and we found ourselves using the canoe and hiking A LOT less last summer. In short, space and time are a premium, and I'm not sure this is the priority we want to make with either. At 44, I'm thinking hiking and canoeing are better for me, and maybe the 8-9k can help me get a more fuel efficient car.

I don't have kids, I have a couple of nieces one nephew. Only the nephew would be remotely interested, but he's too free a spirit to want to own a boat at this point.

Our plan is to get a moorage for the summer, enjoy it May and June, and then decide in July. Probably advertise and see what kinds of nibbles we get. If we are having a blast again next summer, we'll only take a high offer. If we feel the paddle and hiking boots calling us and find ourselves using it every two or three weeks, we'll sell for sure.

Here are a couple more pics. I don't want to abuse the thread by turning it into an ad, but if these pics make you want to downgrade your estimates of value (especially transom pic), it would be good to know that.

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n232/mldiggs/Donzi/006.jpg

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n232/mldiggs/Donzi/Donzi012.jpg

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n232/mldiggs/Donzi/Summer07Trip081-1.jpg

[jl1962]

Looks like original trailer.

If original fuel tank: 6 - 8 K in this market.

Are you near the Gorge? I want to get a foiling Moth one day!

JL

[mdiggs]

Looks like original trailer.

If original fuel tank: 6 - 8 K in this market.

Are you near the Gorge? I want to get a foiling Moth one day!

JL

Yikes. It's worth more to me than 6k, so I'd store it for posterity before selling it for that. It's good to know though. Maybe if the economy turns up a bit it will be worth more.

I live in Portland, and we moored on the Columbia near the airport last year. I like the Willamette better than the Columbia (less traffic, less wind, fewer floating trees!!) but I can always go east for a good time. Last year we almost ran out of gas going to Multnomah Falls. This year we would start out with a full tank, and maybe not haul a$$ half the way. Funny how the gas seemed to last forever when it was my dad's boat.

[Donzi Vol]

Yikes. It's worth more to me than 6k, so I'd store it for posterity before selling it for that. It's good to know though. Maybe if the economy turns up a bit it will be worth more.

I live in Portland, and we moored on the Columbia near the airport last year. I like the Willamette better than the Columbia (less traffic, less wind, fewer floating trees!!) but I can always go east for a good time. Last year we almost ran out of gas going to Multnomah Falls. This year we would start out with a full tank, and maybe not haul a$$ half the way. Funny how the gas seemed to last forever when it was my dad's boat.

Your Donzi is worth more than $6,000.00.

[HOWARD O]

Your father bought that boat new? If I were in your shoes, there's no way I'd even think of selling it. $10k, 20k...who cares. If I lost my house, I'd sleep in it before selling. I'd no sooner sell it than my kid. If I sold that boat, I'd DEEPLY regret it for the rest of my life.

But that's just me...... :cool:

[mattyboy]

if you are going to sell the late winter early spring is the best time as people want a boat for the season so the demand is higher as will the selling price .

what you think the value of the boat is worth and what a buyer will pay are 2 different stories especially in this economy . if you think it is worth more to you perhaps selling it now is not the time to do so.

just as a guideline my boat was the exact same setup same colors and all , it was well documented i had original holman moody paper work and registration all the serial numbers matched on drive and motor with paper work ,the original owners name was stamped on the motor . it had all the holman moody tags and badges.
the boat was painted and looked great it had new era appropriate gauges a new steering wheel and a newer customized tandem trailer also the gas tank was replaced in 2003 it was a turn key reliable boat my asking price was 10k it sold for 9500 early last spring before the economy tanked

an original tank in a 67 is failing or has failed already, they were steel tanks foamed in . it may not be what you want to hear but it is a fact, jay's hull 420 tank failed almost a year to the day that mine did, mine was hull 410.
the tanks were not designed or installed to last 42 years so most buyers are going to be looking at that and it will have an effect on the price

plus look at what other similar classics are going for , another 67 hull 409 with a newer power plant and drive with tilt and trim in good shape was 5k, a few 22's have sold for 10k-12k in very good shape, decent mid 70's 18s have gone for 6-8k lately . it is not a sellers market

again i think it is a very nice boat. with some tlc the chalky finish can be taken care of , maybe a little elbow grease and some money can get the price to where you want it. or it might just make you see it is worth enough to you not to sell it

[Donzi Racer]

Matty your price range post is a wonderful & useful instrument for those that are dizzy wondering what to pay, or how much to sell for. I would say that the really nice restored or great condition smaller Donzi's can bring a little more that that top range in the right economy. Also I have noticed that most 18's seem to bring a little more than the 16's in most condition & years. Have you noticed this? Maybe more of a southern thing?

I definitely agree with Matty that the gel could be massaged a little to show better and the interior is mighty fine looking. If the red interior is anywhere close to that good, that could be worth a bit more. If the boat runs as good as it looks, I can see it maybe bringing $7,500 to $8,000 in the spring to the right person. I will say that Matty's sounded like a Gawl Dang Bargain! Also the fact that your boat has been owned by one family since new, would be important to some. Me for one. My Grandfather sold our 1967 Donzi almost 40 years ago and I am still trying to buy the Baby back. Good luck with your decision. Wonderful old Boat! Tom

[mattyboy]

Tom,

yes i do think the 18s in general bring a little more in resale value, and in a different economy the ranges i posted would be $500-$1000 higher .

i have been looking since april at another classic and have seen boats sell below and in some cases way below their asking price. I am not sure if the asking prices are inflated or the market is just not there , just look at what is happening here in the for sale section or on ebay. many boats return 2 or 3 times and the price gets lower each time

again this is for a standard classic not rare or limited model. I have looked at alot of pre 71 classics and all have or have had tank issues some have been addressed and some have not . granted some of the ones that have been addressed have not been done the correct way adding another tank under the seats instead of removing the old one and replacing it or cutting out the floor instead of lifting the deck that all goes in to the resale value of the boat

again it all depends on the buyer or should i say the right buyer

[mattyboy]

alot of this is supply and demand now you must also take into consideration location just like in real estate location location location being in the northwest USA there are not alot of classics around so it is worth more as there is no competition or it will cost more to have the competition shipped out there. transporting a boat is expensive so that adds value to your boat as well

[BUIZILLA]

predicting a resale value 7-10 months from now is a crapshoot in this economic wonderland.... :nilly:

[chappy]

Family heirloom. Keep it. Unless you absolutely need the money. I think it's very cool to have a 16 that your Father bought new. Pass it on to future generations when the time is right.:cool:

[Donzi Vol]

Family heirloom. Keep it. Unless you absolutely need the money. I think it's very cool to have a 16 that your Father bought new. Pass it on to future generations when the time is right.:cool:

I concur.

[DonziChris]

I could have bought the 1974 X-18 that was on ebay a few days ago for $6500 with out the extra engine. your boat is worth what ever someone is willing to pay. in this market I think it is a guessing game. The X also had the original fuel tank.

[mdiggs]

Your father bought that boat new? If I were in your shoes, there's no way I'd even think of selling it. $10k, 20k...who cares. If I lost my house, I'd sleep in it before selling. I'd no sooner sell it than my kid. If I sold that boat, I'd DEEPLY regret it for the rest of my life.

But that's just me...... :cool:

Yeah, it might be hard for me to find someone willing to pay what it is worth to me, but then there is the part of me that thinks it WANTS to get used the way it's intended. At this point, it's parked in the driveway (tonneau cover covered with an after-market full cover treated with nikwax). If we don't use it, we would want someone else to have it and treat it like it deserves.

Next year will be the tell, I'm sure. Maybe we'll use it all summer and then decide for the next year to get the season right as indicated above. I know I'm not ready to give it up before a few more months of use, and I'm not willing to give it up for 6k, but I don't want to abuse it through neglect either.

You are all giving me penty to think about. If gas stays in the 2.00 range, maybe we can justify I few more years. Heck we'll pay less in mooring this year than we paid for gas alone last year!