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gcarter
12-03-2008, 10:15 AM
gotta flip the hull.
Here's a picture of the hull as it sits on the dollies and under the three chains hanging from the roof perling 18' up.
I have the four furniture dollies I used when I flipped the deck.
I also have a third come-along. The spacing of the trhee chains were determined for lifting decks, not hulls. I also have some 20' long straps.
Can any of you help?:confused:

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=40917&d=1228320919

BigGrizzly
12-03-2008, 10:39 AM
George, space the hull out with 2X2 as a frame so it won't crush when flipping and get 6 people and three mattresses. The other way is put lifting rings and a eye on the stern lift as high as you can then roll the hull and lower on the dollies. I really need more time to think this one out.

BlownCrewCab
12-03-2008, 02:34 PM
a few 2x2s or 2x4s screwed in the existing rub rail holes, from one side to the other will add ridgitity like grizz said. is the front U bolt still in? use it with the hoist to help supprt the weight so all the weight doesn't go on the gunnel. then a few guys can do the flipping from the transom and sides.

Ghost
12-04-2008, 12:03 AM
Just expanding to the ideas above slightly, depending on how fragile things are with the deck off.

If concerned about overloading the rub rail holes, maybe cut 16 or so 2x2 pieces about a foot long and sandwich the top edge in a few places between pairs of them, bolting through the rub rail holes? Then use the sandwich areas to attach 2x4s as needed for the support frame, emulating the structure of an actual deck.

If you need more security than a team of 6 or 8 and mattresses, can you use the chains or other mounts overhead to rig some pulleys and parallel padded straps that go all the way around the hull, such that the weight is spread over a decent area all the way through the rollover process, with a team of 6 or 8 helping by hand?

A bit of an ordeal, but I'm just lobbing ideas out.

Planetwarmer
12-04-2008, 02:15 AM
You could go buy several 2x4s and run them width-wise, screwing them in where the rub rail is screwed. Go to the home depot and buy 8' studs for a couple of dollars a piece. Simply cut the studs to fit inside the uppermost part of the hull and screw em in. Vwalla! That would provide more support than the deck ever did. Hell, then just kick the dollys out from under it on 1 side and you don't need anyone's help. It should roll over on it's own!

mattyboy
12-04-2008, 06:10 AM
what we did with the cig was make a transom plate that bolted up to the existing holes with an eye hook that spun then hook up to a lift like yours front and back 3 guys just turned it over

mattyboy
12-04-2008, 07:47 AM
George the other thing i have seen done was a like a 8 foot round plywood banquet table looking thing basically just a big wheel bolted to the transom it supports the back and who just walk it over could go down to the local Elks or Legion/VFW and see if they have round tables with busted legs they want to get rid of??

i think there are pictures of it on Paul's hornet restoration on
www.lgdonziclassic.com in the gallery

mattyboy
12-04-2008, 08:12 AM
here is the link to the gallery
please note i am working or trying to update the clubs website so if you get a bad link just know I did it and I have no idea how to fix it ;)

the wheely thing can be seen here it has the sig smiley face

http://www.lgdonziclassic.com/gallery/album15

mrfixxall
12-04-2008, 10:32 AM
george,when i flipped mine i made a 8x8' box around the outsire of the boat,it looked like a wooden crate in the center of the boat...i attached 4 2x12 3' long to the stringers first with c clamps,then i built the top first out of 2x6 to the 4 2x12 then screwed some steel wheels to that frame so when i flipped it i could roll it around..then i started to build a box style crate around the boat..when i got the box built then i took another 2x6 and notched the strakes in them and fitted it to the v part of the hull..worked like a champ..it took two of us to get it on its side but watch out when toy get 3/4 of the way up (we almost lost it) it got real heavy!! then i left it on its side and found a forklift to finish the job..

MOP
12-04-2008, 11:12 AM
George as I said during our chat I am putting this post up for those that have never rolled a hull, the basics are below and anyone can feel free to PM me and we can has it out on the phone even during the roll if needed.

Rolling a hull is simple I have done it,helped and or seen it done by others a bunch of times, bracing as mentioned is super important also the straps/ropes what ever must be positioned at the bracing. Blocks should be screwed in place to eliminate any possible belt/strap movement off the braces. We usually use just two ropes with light tie lines to maintain the spacing, we position two come alongs with pulleys with the ropes hanging from the pulleys. We wrap the ropes around the hull and cinch them tightly then lift the hull using the come alongs, once lifted it is pretty easy to roll it and stop it in any position desired. In addition to the blocks mentioned above we tie light line between the lifting ropes to limit any spreading as we lift! It is great for shooting paint or gel on a now flat surfaces!!!!

Phil

dwiggl
12-04-2008, 12:25 PM
On the Scream & Fly sight, I saw where a member fabricated what looked like a big circle from 3/4" plywood. He bolted it to the transom, hung the bow from the bow eye with a come-a-long, and ROLLED it over. Looks like 2 guys could do it with ease. The boat was no heavier than an 18 with deck on.

Planetwarmer
12-04-2008, 07:43 PM
On the Scream & Fly sight, I saw where a member fabricated what looked like a big circle from 3/4" plywood. He bolted it to the transom, hung the bow from the bow eye with a come-a-long, and ROLLED it over. Looks like 2 guys could do it with ease. The boat was no heavier than an 18 with deck on.


thats a good idea. U got my vote.

BigGrizzly
12-05-2008, 10:18 AM
I like the wheel idea its like car restorers do with a frame and body in eastwood catalog. Its kind of like my first though with out the wheel.

Lenny
12-05-2008, 10:52 AM
what we did with the cig was make a transom plate that bolted up to the existing holes with an eye hook that spun then hook up to a lift like yours front and back 3 guys just turned it over

Bingo, :) bolt an "arced" inner plate (3/4" plywood) to the transom. Have a few people lift the hull up to remove the dollies. Lower it onto soft ground. Have these same people lift the bow and then have a couple lift and twist a side onto the arced plywood at back. Roll it over and re-block.

George, I would personally support it from underneath somehow along the stringer plane in order not to induce any hook (which is a very remote chance on a cured hull anyway) but who knows how long it is going to stay like this ???

MOP
12-05-2008, 01:45 PM
There must be a reason every shop I have ever been in rolls the hulls on ropes and pulleys!
Bolting to the transom would be great for some applications but my concern would be what to you do about the many extra holes. Re-gel may not match and extra bungs in a wood boat would not be good. I think in theory it sounds good but in practice not as great as it sounds, tried and true practices seem to all ways the best in the end.

gcarter
12-05-2008, 01:54 PM
Well keep the ideas coming in boys and girls!
I'm gleaning ideas.
Hopefully this weekend I'll have a plan together.

mattyboy
12-05-2008, 03:31 PM
well george you could get a few bottles of rum, get a few friends and do what capt jack sparrow did in the last pirates of the caribean movie have em run back and forth til the boat flips over ;) :) LOL i don't run but i'll help with the rum :tongue:

Ghost
12-05-2008, 03:58 PM
buy Mrs. Butterworths' stock
fill a swimming pool with syrup
roll the dollies right into the pool
watch hull slowly sink from inflow through the drive cutout
rotate hull
...
...
...
place hull on an anthill or in a den full of toothless bears
sell stock

zelatore
12-05-2008, 05:14 PM
Hello? Rube Goldberg calling...

gcarter
12-17-2008, 01:08 PM
Forget Rube, I moved onto bigger and better things.
On the way to developing a method to rolling the hull, I did the following;
1) Jacked up the bow and lowered it on to a furniture dolly w/a bag of salt on top of it.
2) Raised the stern w/a comealong and lowered it onto another furniture dolly.
3) Rolled the hull to STBD untill the STBD chine landed onto two more furniture dollies.

So, until I'm ready to roll the hull all the way over, I now have a very comfortable position to work on the port side of the hull. When I'm ready, it'll be very easy to roll the hull over onto the port chine. And in the mean time I can move the hull around on the four dollies.

zelatore
12-17-2008, 01:55 PM
OK, but just remember, if you ever try to claim this boat has 'never seen salt' I'm going to call you on it...
:wink:

HOWARD O
12-17-2008, 02:02 PM
OK, but just remember, if you ever try to claim this boat has 'never seen salt' I'm going to call you on it...
:wink:

Good one! :wink:

Here's how we did it with a 26' lobster boat:

frclarke
12-17-2008, 04:38 PM
Hi George:
After seeing the 26' Lobster boat apparatus I thought I'd share my experience. I did my thing on a 16 so I did not know how well it would work for a 22.

I used an engine hoist ( I see you've got one) on the transom and a pulley tied to the roof trusses on the bow eye.

I bolted 2 x10s ( sister two of them) securely to the transom using the drive bolt holes(need lots of big washers). I installed a heavy eye bolt in the 2x10's. I used the hoist to raise the stern and the roof pulley on the bow eye.

Here's the useful part - by moving the 2x10s up or down on the drive mount holes you change the center of gravity of the hull so that it "wants" to flip for you. I managed quite fine all by myself.

Safety issues - as you have done - when I got it to the position I wanted it I lowered the hull onto whatever would hold it stable. Thinking back, a good safety addition would of been to secure some lines to the hull and tie them off to opposite walls.

Hope this adds to your idea inventory.
Fred Clarke

gcarter
12-17-2008, 04:43 PM
Thanks Fred.
Good to hear from you.
How are things?

frclarke
12-18-2008, 08:28 AM
Hi George:
Thanks for asking.
As you probably know I bought Dan Nye's (85')22 and his Imco shorty drive. I also picked up a 540 Bulldog motor.
I want to do something different on this build up. Its not a resto. -the goal is a comfortable, user friendly, safe, fast boat
1) (more)comfortable interior - add cubby holes in the cockpit for storing stuff and mug holders - I think I'll use the newer 22's as the basis.
1b) re-shape the area under the bow to make stowage and access easier.
2) make the deck more aerodynamic - flush mount all the chrome bits, remove the lifting eyes, remove grab rails, install pop-up nav lights, pop-up cleats, thinking about removing the vent scoops and replace with the shelby style vents.
2b) major work on the windshield - smooth and glass it over.
3) I've never liked the current location of the gauges. It's too busy and distracting to look at at high speed. Will relocate to a pod on the new windshield -they will be high and in the drivers field of view.
4) Clean up the engine bay. Make the hydraulics accesssable.
5) I have to redo the cockpit floor as you did. While I'm at it, I'll make a decision about the gas tank. Clean up the stringers and transom.
6) New paint or gel - I really like the shelby metallic paint - I don't know much about it at this point.
7) Engine work to get 500 to 600 hp at 5000 to 5400 rpm. I need to do more reseach but I'm thinking of adding an extension box on the drive. The main reason is stability and drivability at speed.
8) Must have the motor rumble but need to find a technology to mitigate the the bark and harshness.

How's that for a 3 year project!
Have a good Christmas...
Fred

gcarter
12-18-2008, 11:33 AM
Fred, I completely agree w/you on about half of those ideas.
In fact, many of them will be on this boat.