Hornet? St. Tropaz? Clone???

[gbsjr]

Hi Gurus, I found this 1970, he claims it's a Donzi, it does look like my Hornets hull, BUT this one doesn't seem as deep, and.....

It has a 165 L-6 Merc, 7 Meter style windshield, and runabout cockpit,,, as in, 2 bucket seats, 2 jumps and a dog house in the back, and starboard steering.

Think it was butchered, a clone, or what? It's in nice shape, I just don't think it's a Donzi and it's to old for a HIN.

I bought it anyways, the price was right for a play boat next to the cruiser, I'd just really like to know what she might be.

Thanks in advance,,,
Gary

http://community.webshots.com/photo/2287502920082626332cUJWcH
http://community.webshots.com/photo/2989917600082626332GwpWRE
http://community.webshots.com/photo/2038311690082626332hzrLkE
http://community.webshots.com/photo/2579653790082626332QBNIbR

[Rob M]

Hard to tell without more pics of the inside - too much glare in the photos.

It kind of looks like a Chris Craft Lancer - is there a cuddy?

[gbsjr]

No cuddy, just like my '74 Hornet, small storage space and gas tank, but the fill cap is on the port gunwale behind the seat.

[joseph m. hahnl]

Hi Gurus, I found this 1970, he claims it's a Donzi, it does look like my Hornets hull, BUT this one doesn't seem as deep, and.....

It has a 165 L-6 Merc, 7 Meter style windshield, and runabout cockpit,,, as in, 2 bucket seats, 2 jumps and a dog house in the back, and starboard steering.

Think it was butchered, a clone, or what? It's in nice shape, I just don't think it's a Donzi and it's to old for a HIN.

I bought it anyways, the price was right for a play boat next to the cruiser, I'd just really like to know what she might be.

Thanks in advance,,,
Gary

http://community.webshots.com/photo/2287502920082626332cUJWcH
http://community.webshots.com/photo/2989917600082626332GwpWRE
http://community.webshots.com/photo/2038311690082626332hzrLkE
http://community.webshots.com/photo/2579653790082626332QBNIbR

Get The HIN # They don't lie:wink:. It should be on the transom usually upper right I think:confused:

[mattyboy]

Joe is right the HIN never lies but unfortunately a 1970 Hornet would not have a Donzi HIN stamped on it's transom as that was not mandated by the Coast Guard til nov of 1972

you best bet is to check for a foil tag around the back seat area and look for written hull numbers on the back side of the dash and up by the bow eye

i saw this boat on craig's list it peaked my interest donzi or not if that is the boat that was a no brainer good luck

[joseph m. hahnl]

Joe is right the HIN never lies but unfortunately a 1970 Hornet would not have a Donzi HIN stamped on it's transom as that was not mandated by the Coast Guard til nov of 1972

you best bet is to check for a foil tag around the back seat area and look for written hull numbers on the back side of the dash and up by the bow eye

i saw this boat on craig's list it peaked my interest donzi or not if that is the boat that was a no brainer good luck

Matty: It still might have it.It may have not been mandated But it was pretty standard practice among boat companies. My 58 Feather Craft had it there.

[mattyboy]

Joe,

i have crawled thru enough of the older classics to know that a 1970 donzi is not going to have a HIN Stamped or etched in the fiberglass on the right side of the transom , if there is a tag or a plate there it will most likely have a state given hull number at the time it was registered sometime after 1973 and will have no corelation or relevance to any donzi hull number

look for a foil tag and the hand written hull number in the places i mentioned

the side profile looks very much like a hornet have you measured the deadrise??? a hornet should be 19 degrees with a rounded keel the inner strakes ends 4-6 feet from the back and there is a slight hook between the outer strake and the chine it looks like the outter strake tapers away to nothing in the last 7 inches or so where it meets the transom

[joseph m. hahnl]

Joe,

i have crawled thru enough of the older classics to know that a 1970 donzi is not going to have a HIN Stamped or etched in the fiberglass on the right side of the transom , if there is a tag or a plate there it will most likely have a state given hull number at the time it was registered sometime after 1973 and will have no corelation or relevance to any donzi hull number

look for a foil tag and the hand written hull number in the places i mentioned

the side profile looks very much like a hornet have you measured the deadrise??? a hornet should be 19 degrees with a rounded keel the inner strakes ends 4-6 feet from the back and there is a slight hook between the outer strake and the chine it looks like the outter strake tapers away to nothing in the last 7 inches or so where it meets the transom

Matty: does that mean that the HIN on a pre 1973 boat. The registration's # may not be the actual #'s of the boat?

[mattyboy]

Joe,
not sure what you mean see if this helps


the term HIN HULL IDENTIFICATION NUMBER was mandated by the USCG it contains a 3 letter MIC Manufacturer Identity Code
then a model number a production number and a production date
this was made mandatory on any boat that was sold or manufactered after nov of 1972
prior to this a boat company could mark or not mark the hulls


donzi used hand written hull numbers then foil tags so my 1967 16 was hull number 410
it was hand written as "16-410" on the back of the dash and up by the bow eye pretty self explanatory model 16 - 410 410 hull built no foil tag
my hull number was the old NJ registration number( boat was a NJ Boat) on my NY registration DMV took the old reg number and used it as the hull number for the NY reg so alot of this depends on how the DMV clerk with the blue hair and glasses felt that day.


a 1970 hornet would be 19-XX it might have an H in there depending on the guy would wrote it


now after nov 72 give or take a month
so 16 hull 723
would have
DMR167230679 stamped on the hull

DMR DONZI MARINE RACING
16 MODEL
723 HULL NUMBER 723 RD HULL BUILT
06 JUNE
79 YEAR


so anything goes prior to HIN's on any registration

and what is exactly stamped on the transom of your boat ??? would not be surprised if it was added on later the real key would be if it has a MIC and it is not for feather craft it most likely was given by the state in which it was registered( again after this was made mandatory)


now that you have that are you ready in 1984 they changed the spec's for the HIN's but let's get back to the hornet



I would check the dash to see if any work has been done to move the helm??? they did use some merc stuff back then but not alot and the hornet usually came with big power hence in the beginning the need for V drives for the bigger H/M power plants but some did come with the 270 and 290 HP H/M power plant and volvo drives most were port helm but there are always exceptions

[rustnrot]

Gt21?

[Morgan's Cloud]

Gt21?


Sorry , hulls aren't even remotely similar. It's certainly a Hornet / St Tropez hull ... Need better deck photos to figure out how they got that windscreen on it ..

[mattyboy]

another thing to check would be to see if there has been transom work looking for thru hulls and a volvo cut out that has been glassed over

Gary
what is the white tag on the transom??????? also pics of the seating area and helm would help , the gas fill behind the back seat was pretty common as the tanks went bad belly tanks were put between the stringers under the seating area and the fill was put in the deck behind the seats, highly unlikely it was a st tropez with a toal rework of the deck but maybe a 2+3 hornet with some work done to it

[Rob M]

The interior description you provide makes your boat sound like an early 70's CC-Lancer 19'. Same designers as the Hornet hull I believe. It seems unlikely that someone would extensively modify the interior configuration to the extent you described it, although anything is possible. You are right, the hull from all angles seems identical to a Hornet..but more pictures of the deck and interior would help.
Here's a link to one CC-Lancer 19.
http://www.lancerclub.se/yellow_delight.asp?LastPage=vara_batar_our_boats.a sp?103pageSize=30&103firstNode=30&actionPrefix=103&actionPage=

[gbsjr]

Thanks Matty, you've allways been a big help.

There is no engraved or cast HIN, first thing I looked for, nor any foil tags I could see on a quick glance.

It looks a little short rub rail to chine too be a Hornet, in my pain killer deluded eyes.

Transom is un-Donzi owner like molested, who here would replace a HM with a 6 right??? lol.

It has the 7 meter style windshield, bottom vents, a few inches forward of where I think the Hornet belongs. The CC Lancers were curved like the Hornet as far as I know and have seen.

Sorry I don't have more pics, they are what I bought the boat from.
Price was right, delivered.

Gotta blown out shoulder here, can't crawl around and play Dick Tracy for a few months.

I can say she runs well, way better than I would expect a Hornet to with an L-6.

Just has me confused, the bare hull I'd have bought, looks like my '74 Hornet, the cockpit layout is just to clean for me to think it was a hack along with the Merc#1 or Keikafer ( sp) drive.

[gbsjr]

Rob, my windshield has opening bottom vents, the Lancers I have seen didn't.

[olredalert]

------The pictured Lancer is pretty obviously not the same as there is no character line down the side. It almost looks like it was a St.Tropez with an early formula deck grafted on..........Bill S

[Rob M]

The double pinstrip on Gary's boat makes it difficult to tell if there is a 'characterline' built into the hull as described. Here's a photo for reference that shows how this sticks out from the hull of a Hornet.

Gary: does the hull stick out where the double white pinstripe is? I have no idea if Lancers do the same.

Rob

[BUIZILLA]

It has a 165 L-6 Merc, 7 Meter style windshield, and runabout cockpit,,, as in, 2 bucket seats, 2 jumps and a dog house in the back, and starboard steering. doghouse seating and engine box takes it out of the Donzi category for a 19 anything...

[mattyboy]

the st tropez would have the doghouse but not seats unless someone added them ????
gary we need some shots of the seating area

[gbsjr]

Thanks for the input guys, I'm gonna try and get a buddy over today to crawl around a bit for some #'s.

I forgot to say the boat was painted last year, the pin stripes are on a conture or 'characterline' , and they painted the white bottom red and removed the boot stripe along with adding the pinstripes so I was told.

It's really crappy here however I'll try and get an interior pic or two asap.

[gbsjr]

After finding the 300 dollar '74 Hornet, the 2500 buck 21 Challanger, and this boat for 800.

Any awards for board "deal finders"???:D

[mattyboy]

for 800 bucks use her like you stole her ;)

[gbsjr]

IF she is by chance a rare Donzi. I'll let everything as is, if not,,, I need a smallblock and an Alpha shorty, who knows might be a new home for that old 454 in the pole building.

[mattyboy]

Gary,

here are some Pics of Paul Herzan's (he is one of our members )68 benchseat hornet it will not help with the deck but you can see the hull in many stages for different angles
these might help

http://www.lgdonziclassic.com/gallery/album15?page=1

[gbsjr]

Ok, this is the best I could do one handed today.

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2821534340082626332DHUQKP

The original Hull ID is H37901

I found the original slip from when OH assigned the state ID #.

olredalert, I agree it well may have had a deck grafted on,,,

today was the first time I was in the boat.

The front deck looks glassed in, not shoeboxed, the helm station underneith looks like it was sawzalled out of a donor, the doghouse is not original, pretty well jerry rigged in as well as the jump seats in the back, it has outdoor carpet glued every where as you can see in the pic, my guess is to hide the graft job that was done and cover up the deck which is obviously a homemade replacement done in a hurry, it's solid, just didn't take much time or pride in doing the job.


The boat looks ok and everything seems solid, so it will be getting a smallblock anyways for spring, then I guess start looking for a deck all while trying for the life of me, to figure out how it ended up like it is now..

[olredalert]

-------My El Pescador had a cuddy grafted into the front. However, they left the console behind it in place. Luckily, they didnt install very well and the entire cabin peeled out with relatively little drama. Funny part was they put a head in the cuddy and it had no "head" room. We never have been able to figure out how they would have used it........Bill S

[gbsjr]

I'm hoping the vents, cleats, light socket, or step tread might be a clue for someone.

[olredalert]

-------Looked at all that stuff, and it pointed me the wrong direction........Bill S