New graduates prospects....

[Donziweasel]

Was reading this morning how the job market for new college graduates has completely dried up. I feel for these kids. They have spent god knows how much money, busted thier hump for 4-7 years, are deep in debt, and have little or no chance of securing a job in thier fields. They are taking low paying jobs just to get by outside thier field which they studies for years for. Many are severely depressed. They have been taught if they get into a good college, study hard, make good grades, and graduate, then they can have the American dream. They are finding out that this simply isn't true anymore. Like I said, I feel for them. Many have done it right and the greed of a few has meant the United States has let them down.

If we are going to bail out a bunch of crooked financial institutions who created this frickin mess due to untold greed with 800 billion dollars, then perhaps they should pay a little to these unfortunate students college loans, especailly those who worked thier asses off and made good grades. Many have no way to pay them off and some are even considering bankruptcy before they have even graduated. This is not that way the American system should work IMO.

[onesubdrvr]

Was reading this morning how the job market for new college graduates has completely dried up. I feel for these kids. They have spent god knows how much money, busted thier hump for 4-7 years, are deep in debt, and have little or no chance of securing a job in thier fields. They are taking low paying jobs just to get by outside thier field which they studies for years for. Many are severely depressed. They have been taught if they get into a good college, study hard, make good grades, and graduate, then they can have the American dream. They are finding out that this simply isn't true anymore. Like I said, I feel for them. Many have done it right and the greed of a few has meant the United States has let them down.

If we are going to bail out a bunch of crooked financial institutions who created this frickin mess due to untold greed with 800 billion dollars, then perhaps they should pay a little to these unfortunate students college loans, especailly those who worked thier asses off and made good grades. Many have no way to pay them off and some are even considering bankruptcy before they have even graduated. This is not that way the American system should work IMO.
See, this is my big concern; I have gone to school for a field that I have never been employed in (Software Engineering). I've been turning wrenches since I was 15, and though I've spent plenty of time in front of a computer, and, though I'm no expert, I pick up on things unusually fast, this still doesn't amount to experience though.

The loans are another issue :frown: to be dealt with IF I can't make financial use of my degree,.... I'll be able to pay 'em no problem, but certain other projects will move slower :wink:

My wife finished her degree in accounting earlier this year, and hasn't been able to find a move that is lateral pay wise (locally at least), but she and I are both hopeful. Her experience with internal auditing should come in handy soon as I think you are going to see a lot of new regulations in the near future for financial institutions. Also, she doesn't want to be a CPA, but she may pursue that avenue as well. IT will always be in demand, and will go in waves. Right now, with the financial institutions going out of business, and thousands of jobs being lost, there has been a hit in the IT industry, but again, with time it'll get strong again.

My view on things at least ;)
Wayne

[BUIZILLA]

IT will always be in demand, and will go in waves. Right now, with the financial institutions going out of business, and thousands of jobs being lost, there has been a hit in the IT industry, but again, with time it'll get strong again. the father a good friend of my daughter's, who was here last night, got laid off this week at IBM, he was a senior tech salesman, had somewhere between 20-30 years with them... he was told to liquidate his department on Monday, and he would be moved to *another department* himself... after doing the dirty deed to his staff, he got laid off the day after terminating ALL of his staff.... the *other* department he was moving to you ask?.... turned out to be his home.... he's not very happy...

[txtaz]

Jim that just sucks.

For me, I was doing only one contract this year and the huricanes took out the home office(Gustav) and the subsidiary(Ike). After that the credit crunch hit. My contract was over, unfinished.

AND if we look at the positive side...that leaves me free time to help George out and party with Wayne. I had more time to finish up my thesis early. I get to pet the cats more, and I've caught up on some of the movies I've missed. PLUS I've found they have been building tons of new shops in the area. MAN Wings to Go is off the hook. Today we are going to a new Crystals they just built.

AND I get to post on Donzi.net more often.

Da Taz<---What am I go to do next?

[McGary911]

These situations are tough, that's for sure. Believe it or not, there could be a bright side. I graduated college in '92. The job market was simply horrible then. I couldn't put either of my degrees to much use, so I took a job working remote broadcasts for a local radio station. I had been station manager at my college station. The money bit. Within a couple of years, I ended up doing the morning show at that same station. When the station went country and fired all the airstaff, I was ready to hang up my headphones, and get a "real" job. I did send out a couple of tapes, and guess what? The biggest station in NJ wanted me. me? I ended up doing an air shift on a huge talk radio station. Eventually they fired me too (amicably), and I moved onto an entry level job in corporate America.

Point is, that if I had gotten some great job right out of college, I would have never pursued a radio career. Would I be further ahead if I'd gotten started with my real job 5 years earlier? Probably. But I would have also missed out on 5 fun and interesting years that I wouldn't trade for the world.

[gpapich]

These situations are tough, that's for sure. Believe it or not, there could be a bright side. I graduated college in '92. The job market was simply horrible then. I couldn't put either of my degrees to much use, so I took a job working remote broadcasts for a local radio station. I had been station manager at my college station. The money bit. Within a couple of years, I ended up doing the morning show at that same station. When the station went country and fired all the airstaff, I was ready to hang up my headphones, and get a "real" job. I did send out a couple of tapes, and guess what? The biggest station in NJ wanted me. me? I ended up doing an air shift on a huge talk radio station. Eventually they fired me too (amicably), and I moved onto an entry level job in corporate America.

Point is, that if I had gotten some great job right out of college, I would have never pursued a radio career. Would I be further ahead if I'd gotten started with my real job 5 years earlier? Probably. But I would have also missed out on 5 fun and interesting years that I wouldn't trade for the world.


McGary,

What you wrote struck a chord. I'm sitting here on the boards lurking, living vicariously through everyone else (I need a new engine in my X18).

I'm looking for work here in the California Central Valley. This place is pretty depressed economically, but I'm not moving. I have friends and family as well as a church network that I'm not trading to go chase money. I have a boss from ten years back who wants me to move back to LA to work on a government contract. I could probably jump on it immediately if dollars were my #1 priority.

My resume looks like a shotgun blast of all different types of functions and industries, not always by choice. Anyway, I agree with your comments on experience. I've been a naval test and evaluation officer for the navy's AEGIS combat system program as well as an IT project manager for Wellpoint Health Networks, the parent of Blue Cross California. Both jobs were great, and I'm glad I had the opportunities to do some great things.

Right now I'm looking at becoming a sheriff's deputy because it's got all the positives of the military (cool people, cool tools, cool mission), with none of the negatives (long deployment cycles, detailers sending you halfway around the world every three years, separation from family and friends). Not to mention, I may have the opp to go bust tweaker meth-heads and maybe convince some kids to stay in school.

I've learned it's not about the money. Survival's good. We'll see what happens in the next four years.

Take care.

[Donziweasel]

McGary,
I am glad you had an opportunity to find a field that was fun and interesting before you moved into your chosen field. Unfotunatly, most graduates will not have that opportunity. The ones that are finding jobs are jobs no one else wants. They are also finding jobs that can not support them and thier loans for college. Imagine being 23 or 23 and bankrupt before you ever had a chance to find a job or destroying your credit because of a loan default at that age.
Me, I was lucky like you. Got out of college in 1994 and didn't know what to do. Wondered out to JH, got a job as a whitewater guide in the summer and snowmobile guide in the winter . Two years later, I started my business. I would never trade any of it for a moment. Hell, there have been days this year I still wish I was doing it.:wink:

In 1993, the unemployment was cuased by a mild recession. No one really did anything unethical to cause it. There weren't 700 billion bailouts. This situation has been caused by unethical greedy individuals and institutions that were IMO, illegal.

I am glad we did ok. I just hope the newest graduates, some with exceptionally bright minds, weather this storm and become successful.

[ChromeGorilla]

My sister graduated this year with a masters in elementary education. She has been trying to get a teaching position at any number of her local school districts for over 2 years now..... still no luck.


She told me one time there were 3 elementary positions open in the district where she substitutes/ coaches girls varsity diving.... over 2500 applications....

I feel bad for her, she did the right thing, went to school, got good grades and now she can't even get health insurance....:frown::mad::confused:

Then on the flip side, I only have a HS diploma, yet thank god, I am doing very, very well.

These are wierd times.

[Ghost]

Then on the flip side, I only have a HS diploma, yet thank god, I am doing very, very well. These are wierd times.

Agreed. I think we're about t see a (much-needed) revolution in college enrollment, costs, and staffing. I think community colleges are about to boom, and 4-year schools are going to get crushed.

[onesubdrvr]

Agreed. I think we're about t see a (much-needed) revolution in college enrollment, costs, and staffing. I think community colleges are about to boom, and 4-year schools are going to get crushed.

I agree, I did my 2 year at the local CC, and they have entered into agreement with FAU so that the AA crosses strait over, and they offer many classes on the track to the BA / BS degrees that FAU will credit. You end up having to take like 6 classes at FAU for you BS / BA degree. In fact they changed it from Indian River Community College to Indian River State College.

Wayne

[Donzi Vol]

They have been taught if they get into a good college, study hard, make good grades, and graduate, then they can have the American dream. They are finding out that this simply isn't true anymore.

I was actually just having a conversation about this with a friend of mine a few days ago. I've been out of college for 2 years, and she will be finishing up her graduate work in education within the year. We were sharing stories of our frustrations with getting into the real world and it not being exactly what we thought it would be. And then it suddenly hit me. For about 8 years (HS and College), we were told that if we went to college, made decent grades, and got a job that everything would fall into place and we would be happy with puppies and kittens and flowers all around. Well, this just simply isn't true. The fact is, we've still got a long way to go. I've found what I like after a job that I hated, so now I have to work my tail off to get to the next level. Likewise, she will have to make certain decisions to get where she wants to be in the future. I guess my point is, being in that group of recent college grads, we can't give up just yet! We're awfully young to be drawing conclusions about our futures. The American Dream is still out there!:yes:

All the best

[onesubdrvr]

I've learned it's not about the money. Survival's good. We'll see what happens in the next four years.

Take care.

Well, I do agree, but in my case, with a family of 7, I don't have the luxury of being able to take just any job just to change fields. I make pretty good money, and will likely have to take a pay cut just to get into my new field.

The other option for me, is to focus less on the software engineering side of the degree, and more of my management experience through 9 years in the navy, and 4 years as the service manager where I'm at.

I'm going to a Military only job fair in Miami November 6th with a couple of different versions of my resume in hand,.... we'll see how it pans out.

Wayne

[txtaz]

Wayne, The most succcesfull people I have met were good at combining more than one field. AND they went the extra effort to do so. So write your own programs (maintain ownership) and show how it enhances what you are doing.

We can talk more at your party.

Da Taz<---Dammit man...take part of the MS Partner Program. It's free to you and I might need a local (FL) partner.

[onesubdrvr]

Wayne, The most succcesfull people I have met were good at combining more than one field. AND they went the extra effort to do so. So write your own programs (maintain ownership) and show how it enhances what you are doing.

We can talk more at your party.

Da Taz<---Dammit man...take part of the MS Partner Program. It's free to you and I might need a local (FL) partner.

Sounds good ;)

I'm actually messing around with it now, I will have more time to get more involved with that soon too,....

I'm also working with Cari on the possibility of writing an auditing package software for the banking industry, she's an internal auditor now, and know of no complete package.

Then for me, I've had ideas of writing software and designing systems for remote manufacturing plant monitoring, with trend analysis and some other stuff.

Extra time will be a nice thing :D

Wayne

[BUIZILLA]

My sister graduated this year with a masters in elementary education. She has been trying to get a teaching position at any number of her local school districts for over 2 years now..... still no luck.
She told me one time there were 3 elementary positions open in the district where she substitutes/ coaches girls varsity diving.... over 2500 applications....
I feel bad for her, she did the right thing, went to school, got good grades and now she can't even get health insurance CG, my nephews wife lives close to you, real close... she teach's elementary, loves it, and i'm pretty sure they are looking for quality staff.... check it out... I think she's right inside the north end of St Johns County school jurisdiction, just east of Fruit Cove? main east-west road? schools are right on that road?.. I know it's just 2 minutes from Mark, kick ass area... worth a lookysee

[McGary911]

CG, my nephews wife lives close to you, real close... she teach's elementary, loves it, and i'm pretty sure they are looking for quality staff.... check it out... I think she's right inside the north end of St Johns County school jurisdiction, just east of Fruit Cove? main east-west road? schools are right on that road?.. I know it's just 2 minutes from Mark, kick ass area... worth a lookysee

That's gotta be RaceTrack Road. Lots of schools there serving Julington Creek Plantation. Also could be Loretto road, but I don't think that's in St. John's county.

[roadtrip se]

Jill is a recruiter for a large uniform supplier in our lovely state of Michigan.
She spends quite a bit of time on campus looking for entry-level talent.

That is ENTRY-LEVEL TALENT.

You would be amazed at what the expecatations are for a lot of these kids coming out of school. No real experience, other than president of their fraternity or something similar, and they think the world owes them something.

Maybe they will sober up now and realize a degree is just the start, not the end to $100K and a corner office after just getting off of campus.

[RedDog]

well for the other side of the story!

My son will have completed his junior year next month. He has just been offered an intern / co-op position (5 to 8 months) that pays $33/hr, relocation expenses, and a supplemental housing payment. It looks like Exxon-Mobile is willing to spend some of their profits.

He hasn't fully made up his mind but it appears likely he will take the position. I may be contacting some of you Houston-based Donzi Net folks for leads on a room / efficiency - he will be working downtown with occasional forays into the field.

[mattyboy]

It depends on the field My son Joe is in his third year of high tech high cost college and my Daughter Jamie is in her freshman year ( as a senior in high school) of community college which is paid for by the high school.

Joe is in the leading edge tech school he started in gaming software and game development but switched his major to network security both fields are booming right now and they have head hunters coming into see him all the time hopefully that will last till he graduates( i told him to get a degree he figures it is one more year of college life party harty til he has to fish or cut bait ) they offer alot of freelance oppourtunities for work on the side

Jamie is going to become a marine biologist not sure what careers are available
and what financial security is there but she has a dream to work with Dolphins at sea world but she also has a fall back plan as a good part of her studies will be able to let her teach science

My niece of the same age is going to college to become an undertaker that business is never dead :tongue:

the telecommunications IT field that keeps me employed has been kinda slow right now people are unsure of things to come but when things are good we are installing stuff when things are bad we are removing stuff we get paid either way

[DonziJon]

It depends on the field My son Joe is in his third year of high tech high cost college and my Daughter Jamie is in her freshman year ( as a senior in high school) of community college which is paid for by the high school.
Joe is in the leading edge tech school he started in gaming software and game development but switched his major to network security both fields are booming right now and they have head hunters coming into see him all the time hopefully that will last till he graduates( i told him to get a degree he figures it is one more year of college life party harty til he has to fish or cut bait ) they offer alot of freelance oppourtunities for work on the side
Jamie is going to become a marine biologist not sure what careers are available
and what financial security is there but she has a dream to work with Dolphins at sea world but she also has a fall back plan as a good part of her studies will be able to let her teach science
My niece of the same age is going to college to become an undertaker that business is never dead :tongue:
the telecommunications IT field that keeps me employed has been kinda slow right now people are unsure of things to come but when things are good we are installing stuff when things are bad we are removing stuff we get paid either way

I have a friend whose daughter wanted to become a Marine Biologist until this past summer. She got a grant of some sort to go to sea on the Woods Hole Oceanagraphic Ship for seven months. When she got back the Deal was OFF. I don't know the details but suspect they made her clean too many fish tanks and she figured that since she had a Degree already, she was above that sort of menial work.

Now she's looking at getting a Masters and being some kind of EPA "Park Ranger". John

[roadtrip se]

Guys, don't take my comments as anything more than a generalization.

Of course, there are still rockstars in their respective fields coming out of college that deserve more than what is typical.

But it certainly isn't everybody. Maybe it's a Michigan thing. There are some places that Jill won't go back to around here, because the average kids have been pumped so full of smoke. The list would surprise you.

Congrats to you guys with great kids!

[Conquistador_del_mar]

When the college generation gets their degrees, usually they do not have a specific job lined up - especially if they are graduating with a general BA or BS. This was my case. I think they should be flexible in making their choices, since their first choice might not have many openings. Unless they are graduating in a very specific field with a guaranteed opportunity like the health care industry, they will probably have to go from one opportunity to another until something permanent seems to open up for them. I try to tell young guys not to close the door on blue collar work since it can be lucrative and there will always be openings in various fields. When I quit fiberglass repair work in about 1994, I was at $50/hr which was much less than the big shop rates. I do hope that things get better for the younger generation, but it has always been a matter of changing gameplans and remaining flexible. My two cents, Bill

[Kirbyvv]

it took my daughter over a year to find a job in her field, marketing and PR, but she kept at it, sending resumes and making calls, while waiting tables, bar tending, teaching skiing, etc. She made more money doing the odd jobs than she did when she got her "career" position. it takes alot of perserverience and patience for these kids to break into the job market. Some may have high expectations like Todd refered too, but they'll get set straight after a few rejections, etc. My daughter had very high expectations, but came to realize quickly, it will take a while to get to where she wants to be. She had wanted to work for 2 years and then go back for her MBA, but now realizes she is very lucky to ahve a job she likes and a reasonable living. She's decided to wait on further eduction and see what happens in teh job market.

[Donziweasel]

One thing is a new graduates faver is entry level jobs. Many who are laid off or fired due to the economy will not take "menial" jobs because they feel it is beneath them and they have experience. A new graduate knows they have no experience or senority and will take a job others won't. With time, doing a good job, and perserverance, they have the potential to move up the ladder. Until of course we have a huge recession and they are making too much and are laid off.:bonk:

[VetteLT193]

I graduated just after the .com bubble burst. Out of all of my classmates I estimate that 1 in 10 might actually still be in any sort of IT field. The rest had to change career paths all together.

I'm one of the odd balls that made it in IT but I had to compromise big time... I didn't want to stay in Tallahassee... But that's where the offer was. I didn't want to work for the Government... But that's where the offer was. etc. etc.

In the end it worked out. I don't have to speak (or even hear) Spanish around here (which annoys the hell out of me in S. Fla.) and now have one hell of a home & family.

[zelatore]

I don't have to speak (or even hear) Spanish around here (which annoys the hell out of me in S. Fla.)

On my trip to Maine a few weeks ago that was one of the big shockers - NO spanish chatter or hispanic people. I litterally don't recall seeing one person.

I hate to admit it, but I get frustrated hearing Spanish all the time here in California. I try not to, but it still grates on me. That's bad, since half my staff are from Mexico originally, and a solid 75% of the labor force at the boat yards I work with are hispanic as well.

[Donzi Vol]

A friend of mine graduated a year after me with his masters in accounting. He landed a good job, and is doing well for himself. Well apparently part of his job is to interview young prospects at his alma mater (UT). He told me this weekend of one guy that came in and said, "Man, I am SO hungover right now." He told the guy that he's been hung over plenty of times himself, but it's best not to say that in an interview. Rather, just ask for a glass of water and dimmer lights. I laughed...A LOT!

[Tidbart]

Was reading this morning how the job market for new college graduates has completely dried up. I feel for these kids. They have spent god knows how much money, busted thier hump for 4-7 years, are deep in debt, and have little or no chance of securing a job in thier fields. They are taking low paying jobs just to get by outside thier field which they studies for years for. Many are severely depressed. They have been taught if they get into a good college, study hard, make good grades, and graduate, then they can have the American dream. They are finding out that this simply isn't true anymore. Like I said, I feel for them. Many have done it right and the greed of a few has meant the United States has let them down.

If we are going to bail out a bunch of crooked financial institutions who created this frickin mess due to untold greed with 800 billion dollars, then perhaps they should pay a little to these unfortunate students college loans, especailly those who worked thier asses off and made good grades. Many have no way to pay them off and some are even considering bankruptcy before they have even graduated. This is not that way the American system should work IMO.


Have been looking at this post for a couple of days and, don't take this personally, but it pisses me off. Boo-hoo-hoo for the college grads.:bawling::bawling: Do you honestly think they are the only ones that ever toiled through school only to get out and not get a job. My heart bleeds.

What a bunch of cry babies.

Job market is bleak: keep the job searches going. The average job search when I got out was 6-12 months. It took me 9 months. Do you know what I did in the mean time. I worked at other jobs.

They spent all kinds of money: most of that was their parent's. If they took out school loans, they have deferments available or they can get a job doing what is available until they get their "dream job", and still pay back their loans.

Many are depressed: well, boo-hoo-hoo once again.:bawling: Did any of them think they were entitled to be hired "in their field"? Darwin will take care of those ones eventually.

"They have been taught if ......then they can have the American dream." Who is teaching them this? Shoot the teacher. They can, and still do have a chance at the American dream, they just have to get off their asses and go get it. It's not handed to anyone on a silver platter.

"then perhaps they should pay a little to these unfortunate students college loans, especailly those who worked thier asses off and made good grades".: While your at it pay off my mortgage. Whether or not anyone agrees with the bailout, some of its intention is to keep alot of companies afloat so they can eventually hire some of these whiny college grads.

"some are even considering bankruptcy before they have even graduated.": Ah, this is as old as student loans themselves. Tired old ploy that boned those crooked financial institutions and made it harder for the next generation of 'those who worked their asses off and made good grades' to get loans. The student loans now, as opposed to many years ago, still have to be paid off regardless of bankruptcies.


Sorry, Donziweasal. I read your post at the wrong time.....after reading a lot of other posts in the Political section,:mad: and it just frosted my azz. I know you didn't write the article, but this hit a little too close to home. I hate it when completely capable and educated people whine about how bad they have it. Maybe their over-protective parents should have taken away their video games and told them to get a job, learn a skill, do something constructive with their lives, other than sit around and have their lives spoon-fed to them.

As you can guess, I had it just as bad in the 80's, when I got out of school. Funny, I don't remember talking to reporters or writers or sitting around blogging about my woes.:bawling:

Although you can't tell by my previous post, I feel for them also. I know what they are going through.

Holy ****e, I wrote alot. I need a drink.:yes:

Anonymous.:wink:

[roadtrip se]

worked my way through the dealership. Sold new then used, moved over to fleet, and then in to the finance office. My folks thought I had tossed out my degree and time earning it. Little did they realize that I was getting lots of experience that would help me later. Not to mention making a few life long friends in the process.

Hired on with a company selling software, hardware, and training to car dealers. Have been doing it ever since. I currently work with Ford, Nissan, and Infiniti. It is some of the toughest major account sales work you can get.

My days spent in the dealerships serve me well now. I still don't think my folks understand what I do and I gave up a long time ago trying to explain. They just know that I don't live in the basement and that is okay with them.

While I am probably somwhere in the middle between Tidbart and the "my son is a rock star and deserving of all that they can get" position, my sentiments are a little hard work and hard knocks right out of school is good for everybody.

[Donziweasel]

I am tired of argueing on this board. This place has become a combat zone instead of a chat board. To each his own. See ya. I am outta here.

[txtaz]

I am tired of argueing on this board. To each his own. See ya.

Here, here...I graduate with my Doctoral degree in Computer Science next month and I don't expect to get a job. AND then again I am a bum.

Da Taz<---Soon to be Dr. Taz