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View Full Version : How much antifreeze to winterize?



needadonzi
10-17-2008, 08:05 PM
After warming her up good on the lake, I ran six gallons of premix -50F propylene glycol through the lower unit and motor. Does that sound like enough for an Alpha drive and a SBC? Really no way to check specific gravity without pulling a hose and I have yet to find a hydrometer for propylene glycol.

cherry82482
10-17-2008, 08:26 PM
6 gallons of marine antifreeze is plenty in a SBC with an alpha outdrive as long as you first drained the lake water out of the engine block before filling with marine antifreeze.

MOP
10-17-2008, 08:38 PM
When you do a run through using the drive you should pull the Tstat, it will close as soon as the cooler anti freeze mix hits it. We do this in the yard using a Rule pump to supply the muffs. On off site/driveway jobs I prefer fogging it out then draining the block, manifolds and oil cooler, close all the plugs/petcocks then remove the lower circ pump hose at the pump and add a section of PVC to fit the hose about 20" long tying of so it will be the high point for a pour. Add a funnel then pour the mix slowly as the block will only vent through the tiny vent in the Tstat, pour until the mix comes out of the drive/exhaust, doing it that way requires no other dis assembly. I usually leave the PVC tied off until spring, in the spring I put a bucket under the hull drain plug and drain all the mix out so as not to pollute the ground or water when it is fired off.

Air 22
10-19-2008, 08:35 AM
fyi...just in case u didnt know...and spill some anti-freeze.:nilly: there is avail a ...Non-toxic year-around propylene glycol Antifreeze. Non-toxic formula provides superior year-round protection for all engines. Protects engines from freeze up and boil over while providing excellent corrosion protection. Biodegrades quickly in the environment and is easily broken down by sewer treatment systems

http://www.outerbanksoutfitters.com/product/176130383.htm

DonziJon
10-19-2008, 10:11 AM
Small Block Alpha I. I use 4 gallons of the Non Toxic (-50 Degrees) stuff from West Marine.

PRE Warm the engine on the hose.....Shut it off. Then I disconnect the rubber hoses from under the exhaust manifolds to dump the hot water from the engine into the bilge.

I use a collapsible 5 gallon jug set on a step ladder to supply the Anti Freeze via Gravity to the ear muffs. RE Start the engine. The anti freeze is sucked into the engine through the ear muffs on the drive and I collect it in a tub as it comes out the pipes. I run it through the engine TWICE. John

MOP
10-19-2008, 11:35 AM
Small Block Alpha I. I use 4 gallons of the Non Toxic (-50 Degrees) stuff from West Marine.
PRE Warm the engine on the hose.....Shut it off. Then I disconnect the rubber hoses from under the exhaust manifolds to dump the hot water from the engine into the bilge.
I use a collapsible 5 gallon jug set on a step ladder to supply the Anti Freeze via Gravity to the ear muffs. RE Start the engine. The anti freeze is sucked into the engine through the ear muffs on the drive and I collect it in a tub as it comes out the pipes. I run it through the engine TWICE. John

Did you remove the block drain plugs???????????????? Just draining the manifolds does not do it!!!!! If not that plus you did not mention pulling the Tstat you need to to do it over!!!!!!!!!! The anti freeze in your 5 gallon jug slammed the Tstat closed as soon as it hit it so very little made it into the engine.

DonziJon
10-19-2008, 03:56 PM
Did you remove the block drain plugs???????????????? Just draining the manifolds does not do it!!!!! If not that plus you did not mention pulling the Tstat you need to to do it over!!!!!!!!!! The anti freeze in your 5 gallon jug slammed the Tstat closed as soon as it hit it so very little made it into the engine.

MOP: I'm MIXING 4 gallons of 50 Degree Below Zero antifreeze with what water remains in the engine. Once I run the stuff through the engine TWICE.....I have enough antifreeze and water mix in the tub below the Exhaust pipes to check with a testor. It usually indicates my protection is good to about 20 below. BTW I think even with the thermostat closed there is sufficient circulation IN the engine to move the anti freeze around....No?

I've been doing this with my boat engines for 40 years and I havn't frozen or cracked one yet. Regards: John

needadonzi
10-19-2008, 08:29 PM
Well not satisfied with my first attempt to run six gallons through the outdrive, I decided to drain everything and fill it cold. I pulled the block plug on the starboard side and drained both exhaust manifolds. I got about 2 ½ gallons of pink which leads me to believe that I was probably OK. I replaced the block plug and filled through the starboard manifold hose that tees off the top of the thermostat housing. It took about 2 ½ gallons -50 F premix propylene glycol to run out the outdrive. Since my thermostat housing is connected to the water pump, and the intake manifold will fill through the water passages in the heads I’m comfortable that I have enough antifreeze.

MOP
10-19-2008, 09:44 PM
To do a run through you must remove the Tstat, I na full block with a closed Tstat there is very little circulation, there is -0- circulation in a drained block and very little mix gets into the block. That means the top of the block is dry! Anti freeze serves in two ways, it prevent freezing but also important it helps to inhibit corrosion, cast iron likes to be kept wet.

BigGrizzly
10-20-2008, 07:52 AM
I agree with all the above. Need if you pull the plugs and drain the exhaust and refill you can move to Sara's house ans be fine. The reall bic problem is people forget the exhaust manifolds.

Planetwarmer
10-20-2008, 11:46 AM
YOU SEE!!!!!!!!!!! THIS IS THE REASON THAT I AM PRO-GLOBAL WARMING!:boat:

TBroccoli
10-20-2008, 02:02 PM
I run the engine with earmuffs on the hose. Once at operating temp (165F) I shut off the water and tee into the the 5 gal jug of pink anti-freeze. The engine sucks the pink stuff up, through the engine and out the exhaust. Once I see it coming out the exhaust I fog the engine and shut down. Hopefully its protected.

MOP - Why would the T stat close once it sees the anti-freeze? My hose water is colder then the anti-freeze.

needadonzi
10-20-2008, 06:18 PM
You guys are screwing up my plans for a cracked block so that I can buy that 500hp 383 that I’ve had my eye on.

MOP
10-20-2008, 07:59 PM
I run the engine with earmuffs on the hose. Once at operating temp (165F) I shut off the water and tee into the the 5 gal jug of pink anti-freeze. The engine sucks the pink stuff up, through the engine and out the exhaust. Once I see it coming out the exhaust I fog the engine and shut down. Hopefully its protected.
MOP - Why would the T stat close once it sees the anti-freeze? My hose water is colder then the anti-freeze.

Very true about hose water that is where the Tstat does its job, it regulates the temp it it opens just enough to control the temp.

If you were to pre heat the mix to engine temp then it would work, cold out of the jug the Tstat slams shut allowing very little water into the block. Believe me I know over 30 years doing this stuff for a living!

There is only two ways to get a block full and protected, either remove the Tstat and run it or do a pour. There just is no other way!!

ajochum
10-20-2008, 09:24 PM
As long as this thread is covering winterizing, I have an '82 2+3 with the 350/260 carb. engine. I have removed the outdrive. Am attempting to remove all water and so far have found 4 brass screws - one one each manifold, one on each of the exhaust (?) manifolds (above manifolds towards the back), and I have found one more at the bottom of the port side of the engine - a wing-nut brass. Is there only one on the bottom?

Also, I am looking for something to drain on the water pump but find nothing small, only large 4 sided 1/2" or so screw. Am I missing something?

Is there anything else I should be looking to drain? By virtue of removing the Alpha outdrive, is it automatically empty of all water?

Thanks.

AJ

MOP
10-20-2008, 10:32 PM
Stbd. side has a drain also, midway on the block like the other side. Also drain the power steering cooler, it is good to use two wrenches on the oil cooler.

BigGrizzly
10-21-2008, 08:51 AM
OK if you want to crack the block then drain and refill with distilled water and put a silver tarp o it with a black inside and pray for 18 degree weather:rolleyes:

DonziJon
10-21-2008, 03:18 PM
Small Block Alpha I. I use 4 gallons of the Non Toxic (-50 Degrees) stuff from West Marine.
PRE Warm the engine on the hose.....Shut it off. Then I disconnect the rubber hoses from under the exhaust manifolds to dump the hot water from the engine into the bilge.
I use a collapsible 5 gallon jug set on a step ladder to supply the Anti Freeze via Gravity to the ear muffs. RE Start the engine. The anti freeze is sucked into the engine through the ear muffs on the drive and I collect it in a tub as it comes out the pipes. I run it through the engine TWICE. John

MOP has convinced me I've been doing this the HARD WAY for as long as I've had the boat. The outdrive is OFF the boat now and in the shop for a new water pump so I don't have the option to use the drive to pump the Anti Freeze into the engine. SO: I'm going to do a "Cold Pour".

It's just Too Simple to ignore. It's a slight deviation from MOPs "Driveway" procedure.

The only difference is, I'm going to POUR the anti freeze into the AFT end of the raw water supply hose that runs from the drive up to the thermostat housing.......There is a plastic "T" in the hose that allows the transom hose connector to supply water when using the "flush" function. I'll open the hose there.

The Principle here is: Left to it's own, "Water Seeks It's Own Level". Just keep the anti freeze supply jug ABOVE the engine during the pour.

I'm still debating on whether to remove the thermostat anyway, then temporarily replace the cover, ...to speed up the pour. John

MOP
10-21-2008, 05:07 PM
You do not need to remove the Tstat just pour slowly the air will vent through the vent hole in the Tstat.

Phil

ajochum
10-21-2008, 09:43 PM
Stbd. side has a drain also, midway on the block like the other side. Also drain the power steering cooler, it is good to use two wrenches on the oil cooler.

OK - I found the other wing nut on the block. Could you explain the comments about draining the power steering cooler and the oil cooler? Also, I worry about the water pump... isn't there water in and around it? I have also disconnected all hoses.

margo
10-23-2008, 04:51 PM
Been doing it this way for as long as i can remember Warm up the engine to operateing temp useing muffs and garden hose ...Have a 5gal container with a tee one from the antifreeze one from the hose tees have shutoffs on them when engine is hot shut off the fresh water tee and open the antifreeze when almost empy fog the engine out...If you don,t think this works just open the block drains and check it out theres antifreeze comeing out....Worked for me for many yrs. in the upstate N.Y. area where it gets very cold.....Jug has to be high enough to gravity feed

MOP
10-23-2008, 07:21 PM
Been doing it this way for as long as i can remember Warm up the engine to operateing temp useing muffs and garden hose ...Have a 5gal container with a tee one from the antifreeze one from the hose tees have shutoffs on them when engine is hot shut off the fresh water tee and open the antifreeze when almost empy fog the engine out...If you don,t think this works just open the block drains and check it out theres antifreeze comeing out....Worked for me for many yrs. in the upstate N.Y. area where it gets very cold.....Jug has to be high enough to gravity feed

Hi Margo! If you were to drain the block after doing it with and without the Tstat you will see there is a lot less in the block with the Tstat in. What does get in goes in through the exhaust manifold bypass in the Tstat housing. Drain into a bucket in the spring and note the quantity, next fall do it with out the Tstat, the following spring you will see about 3 quarts more in the bucket. Doing with it in leaves the top of the block and heads dry. Having winterized a few thousand boats in the 30+ years I was a boat mech I know these things as do guys like Big Griz and several others.

Phil

ajochum
10-03-2009, 01:59 PM
Just to revive an old thread (and very timely) - I'm leaving my outdrive on this year - think it's an Alpha One - First question: I noticed two small "bee-bee" size parallel holes on the bottom side of the outdrive - what are they? - pictures available if needed.

Next, have drained all water from petcocks and the other four brass screws/bolts. I will add the antifreeze through the thermostat housing. Question: Is there any water in the outdrive at this time? - and if so, how does it get out?

joseph m. hahnl
10-03-2009, 02:27 PM
Phil. Seeing as how I have closed cooling the only thing I should need to drain is the power steering cooler"cold water hose":kingme:. Is that correct?:confused:

craigdskilling
10-03-2009, 03:04 PM
I have been doing my own winterizing for the last 3 years hear in ontario where it gets cold.I warm up the motor with the ears then i pull the block plugs then the manifold plugs.Water comes out a bit then I take a the end of a close hanger and put it in to get the rest out,you will be surprised how much water comes out.Then i pull all the hoses off and pour antifreeze down till I hear it coming out from the block and manifolds.Am I doing it right or should i do more for the motor.

Bamboo Loui
10-03-2009, 03:14 PM
Hi Margo! If you were to drain the block after doing it with and without the Tstat you will see there is a lot less in the block with the Tstat in. What does get in goes in through the exhaust manifold bypass in the Tstat housing. Drain into a bucket in the spring and note the quantity, next fall do it with out the Tstat, the following spring you will see about 3 quarts more in the bucket. Doing with it in leaves the top of the block and heads dry. Having winterized a few thousand boats in the 30+ years I was a boat mech I know these things as do guys like Big Griz and several others.

Phil

MOP-- maybe you could to do a video of your set up-- seems to me it should be easier, ( or maybe yours is easy)- I am new to this type of boat-- mostly had inboardrs before so this is my first experince with this motor set up) but I do not want to take a chance on making a mistake-- my boat will be traveling on the trailer in possible sub freezing temps. Mine has the closed cooling so I am worried about getting the water out of the areas affected by possible freezing. With the inboards,
I just drained everything-- took out freeze plugs, etc. and did a really quick (secs) fog.--- also- my garage never froze-got cold and could have, just never did freeze- now I may be driving from Mi to Florida in crappy weather.

Only reason I mentioned the vid is because I cannot always grasp things that are written-- sometimes I have to actually see it. written word impaired?

mrfixxall
10-03-2009, 04:05 PM
Ill post a video when its time to winterize mine..if you have a kids plastic swimming pool laying around and a old bilge pump that will work also..

what are you guys using to check the antifreeze point?? are you sure its good for -50? or just guessing because the back of the bottle reads it good for -50 after its premixed..i have news for you with propylene glycol i will change with temperature..when I'm winterizing i always use a refractometer to measure the freezing point.

if you guys are using the pink crap don't let it fool you,it still freezes into slush and if its cold enough it will freeze hard..

Bamboo Loui
10-03-2009, 04:22 PM
"the pink crap" is what is in my closed cooling side.--- so I need to change both sides?

now it gets way more compliated--- I am sure I can do it if I just know how-

Bamboo Loui
10-03-2009, 04:24 PM
I do have a childs swimming pool-- guessing you are meaning the type that is either blow molded or vac formed- and a good sub pump-- good gpm.

Pismo
10-03-2009, 08:15 PM
How much antifreeze do you need to winterize a fresh water boat----zero..

Pismo
10-03-2009, 08:16 PM
4 plugs, three hoses, five minutes.

mrfixxall
10-03-2009, 10:19 PM
"the pink crap" is what is in my closed cooling side.--- so I need to change both sides?

now it gets way more compliated--- I am sure I can do it if I just know how-

lou,some people use the rv style antifreeze to winterize their engines,the stuff in your engine is a propylene glycol which has rust inhibitors in it which is ok ..

i was referring to a plastic round pool and a old bilge pump,put the pump in the front of the pool and put some blocks at the back of the pool so when it comes out of the engine it flows towards the pump so it can recirculate the antifreeze..

MOP
10-04-2009, 03:38 PM
Fresh or salt never put a block away dry, sure in fresh corrosion is minimal to nil but gaskets can dry out, also circ pump seals like to be kept wet. Use good anti freeze with corrosion inhibitors, on my raw cooled boats I would dump it in the bilge with a bucket at the drain test it and use over again.

Bamboo Loui
10-04-2009, 04:13 PM
THANKS ALL-- Having this Donzo is so different than the other boats-- but really not-- that is what I am learning-- just get in and do the work. I keep treating this boat as if it was way too special-- been winterizing boats for years-- just never had a Donzi---- did anyone ever tell you these boats just seem special? Like they need to be treated different?
I guess you can tell, I am a little smitten- never had a boat I was so intrigued with-- had more expensive boats-- had cars that cost 4 times as much, yet I treat her as a special treat for me. My wife thinks I am nuts-cause she saw me with my first and second porshes- special ordered-- tons of money wasted-- but I treat this boat different and better:nilly::bonk::wink: guess it is going to be a long realtionship.

Pismo
10-05-2009, 05:14 AM
Fresh or salt never put a block away dry, sure in fresh corrosion is minimal to nil but gaskets can dry out, also circ pump seals like to be kept wet. Use good anti freeze with corrosion inhibitors, on my raw cooled boats I would dump it in the bilge with a bucket at the drain test it and use over again.

Fresh water, it doesn't make a bit difference. There are dozens of 50-70+ year old boats around here that have never seen a drop of anti-freeze, nor will they and they are fine. You need good clean fresh water tho..

FISHIN SUCKS
10-05-2009, 08:55 AM
THANKS ALL-- Having this Donzo is so different than the other boats-- but really not-- that is what I am learning-- just get in and do the work. I keep treating this boat as if it was way too special-- been winterizing boats for years-- just never had a Donzi---- did anyone ever tell you these boats just seem special? Like they need to be treated different?
I guess you can tell, I am a little smitten- never had a boat I was so intrigued with-- had more expensive boats-- had cars that cost 4 times as much, yet I treat her as a special treat for me. My wife thinks I am nuts-cause she saw me with my first and second porshes- special ordered-- tons of money wasted-- but I treat this boat different and better:nilly::bonk::wink: guess it is going to be a long realtionship.
Awwwwe, you are a good father, aren't you? :kingme: