4WD or not?

[cutwater]

Okay, I'll relinquish my man card after asking this question :nilly:. But I'm seriously considering an '08 4x2 F-250 SuperDuty w/ the 5.4L and the super cab. I'm on the X-plan, plus some serious cash back. I have not really been looking for a new vehicle, in fact I've never owned a truck, but my car is about to give out. I would really like a tow vehicle to haul drywall/lumber, pull the Minx around with, and POSSIBLY my 29' Chris Craft (~8500 lbs w/ trailer I think).

What would be your thoughts on having the 4x2 instead of 4WD? How often do you NEED 4WD? Could I pull a 30' boat out of the water on an I-beam trailer with just the 4x2? I seem to remember someone saying that they see a lot of blown 4x4 transfer cases due to the rear wheels slipping in water and the front wheels grabbing dry land?

I'm to the point that if I have to pay for 4WD it might be a little out of my price range right now.

[BUIZILLA]

I can tell you a 2004 F250 5.4 2wd pulls and yanks a 30' 10,000# Scarab package on a weekly basis with zero issues...

[MOP]

All three of my vehicles are or were 2X4's with posi, a Dakota, GMC sub and now a Chevy sub they actually do better on slick ramps then TRUE 4X4's. 4X4 with the viscous coupling is a different story they don't self destruct!!! Regular 4X4's have a problem on slick ramps in the fact that when the rear lets loose on the Goo the front end hops like a mad man, on a couple of occasions I have had to pull friends boats out to keep them from blowing the front dif or T case. Make sure you get posi that makes the difference!
Had to edit another point is you will get about 30% better mileage with a 2X4 over a 4X4!!!

[chappy]

That truck will do the job just fine. I use my 4wd less than a dozen times per year, just for snow. I've never had to use it at the ramp, I'm sure others have, but I haven't.

[Donziweasel]

Boo Boo's parents purchased a 2wd Expedition. They decided to drive out here last week. As some of you read, we had an early season snow storm. They got to within 2 hours of our house and got stranded due to no 4wd. I had to drive to them with Boo Boo and drive thier Expedition here due to the fact that they are from Mobile and had never driven on snow or ice. I was slippin' and a slidin' the whole way.

The point is, you may never need 4wd, BUT, there might come one day when you do. I would rather have it and never need it than to not have it and need it once. Resale will also be higher. My advice, living where I use it more than not, get it for piece of mind if nothing else.

[mattyboy]

no 2wd 4wd thread would be complete without the "picture"

come on Poodle I know you want to!!! just go ahead and post it up!!!!!!


:tongue:

[mattyboy]

Poodle, DO IT!! :kingme:

[BlownCrewCab]

With enough tongue weight you shouldn't spin the tires much. People who have to burn the tires up the ramp don't have sufficiant tongue weight. there may be instances where the trailer wheels are off the end of the ramp and you have to pull it in muck but with enough (you guessed it) tongue weight you should be fine. Heck I have had my previous truck 4X4 Dually stuck in the smooth grass in front of my house, sitting there spinning 6 tires on flat ground, tire choice is a huge factor also , so I got more aggressive tires, so yeah Tongue weight and tires on a posi or a locker and you'll be fine...

[Donzi Vol]

Pros and Cons all over the place here. When I bought my truck a little over a year ago, I went for the 4x4 because I swore I would never have another 2wd. Like Weasel said, you just never know. I like to have it just in case...especially if it's the daily driver (the snow consideration).

Something else to remember. If you're going to be hauling a large payload, make sure you get something with a HD suspension. I'm not sure what your prospect is equipped with, but I know that if I didn't have the off-road package on my truck that I wouldn't be able to haul all of the heavy stuff I have to on frequent deliveries.

Either way, you best take me for a ride soon!

[Donzi Vol]

Heck I have had my previous truck 4X4 Dually stuck in the smooth grass in front of my house, sitting there spinning 6 tires on flat ground

I would LOVE to have seen that! (and nice signature line, btw...hilarious)

[ChromeGorilla]

UMMM...WELL...UHHHHH...hell...nevermind.... :nilly:

[VetteLT193]

I had some trouble with wet ramps and 2WD with the Minx but I always made it out. I did better with my brother's heavier 22... more weight made it easier.

I went with 4X4 on the Navigator because I didn't want the stress anymore. I boat on the weekends almost exclusively and the ramps are always used and wet around here. not worth the stress for me (if I ever get the dang boat back).

The question I have is why F250 with gas? I have the same 3V 5.4 in the Navigator but it has a 6 speed tranny. The F-150 has the 6 speed too and is rated for 14/20 city/hwy. The 250 has to be much less than that... I'll take an educated guess and say 10/16 city/hwy.

For regular driving I'd lean towards a F150 or SUV.

[roadtrip se]

but it sure is nice compared to the 502 it had when I got it.

Same thing kind of applies on the 4x4 arguement.

We boat in the foothills to the Smokies. So the ramps are already long
and then a couple of years ago, they dropped the lake another 40+ feet making them even longer.

I always love the panic in the faces of the AOTH rookie who see the ramp for the first time at Jamestown.

I like having 4X4 for the long ramps both coming and going, the slime and wet conditions that can occur, and the billy-goat parking conditions we encounter. It is just another level of security and peace of mind.

Add a diesel that we probably didn't need either and life is good for us.

[cutwater]

Thanks for the input everyone. I would prefer the 4x4 but since this isn't going to be driven much in snow, for financial reasons I will probably go with the 4x2 if I end up pulling the trigger. Most of my trailering is on short, dry ramps, and the consensus is that 2wheel drive is at least adequate.

Todd, I'll probably crap my pants when I make it to AOTH! Put me in the rookie category. :pimp: Just get a 6 pack and lawn chair and watch me try to put in.

Hmmm, Vette - you make a good point as well. Believe it or not, similarly equipped XLT trims for both 150 and 250 are only about $2000 apart. I was thinking SuperDuty because (1) I wanted a bigger frame for towing larger loads, and (2) I like the styling much better. (You can punch my man card again for that statement!).

Gas mileage - This will probably only be a 7,500 mile/year vehicle for me (mainly for my rental prop. business), and I believe the tax writeoff for having a GVWR greater than 6000# will outweigh the difference in fuel expenses.

[Sweet16]

what about putting a hitch in the front and worse case scenario pull it out that way ..... just a thought

I don't have one on (front hitch) my truck (06 AC Tundra 2wd) pulling my sweet 16 nice and easy on the skinny pedal and it's pulled the boat out nicely every time so far

[MOP]

Having used a front hitch for many years delivering customers boats to their houses no way would you want to try pulling a boat up a ramp the back end is to light.
They work great on fairly level ground in tight places. One of out rigs was used for snow plowing, we had a mirror on the corner of the fender so you could see to hook up using the same arm that lifted the plow during the winter did not need any help.

[VetteLT193]

Hmmm, Vette - you make a good point as well. Believe it or not, similarly equipped XLT trims for both 150 and 250 are only about $2000 apart. I was thinking SuperDuty because (1) I wanted a bigger frame for towing larger loads, and (2) I like the styling much better. (You can punch my man card again for that statement!).

Gas mileage - This will probably only be a 7,500 mile/year vehicle for me (mainly for my rental prop. business), and I believe the tax writeoff for having a GVWR greater than 6000# will outweigh the difference in fuel expenses.

The tax writeoff is for gross weight which is way higher than curb weight. Last I checked full size pickups count including the F150. I know my Navigator makes the list.

I agree with you on styling, gotta give you the practical side though, not that we do anything practical around here as a bunch of Donzi owners!! :nilly:

I would at least drive both. The 150 with the 5.4 has to run better than the 250 with the 5.4. Or on a totally different note there are dealers totally blowing out the Lincoln Mark LT.

[Cuda]

UMMM...WELL...UHHHHH...hell...nevermind.... :nilly:
Be careful. You DO remember the taker of said pic don't you? :)

[Cuda]

Like I say; 4wd is like a pistol. You don't really need it, until you need it badly! I bought my last 2wd truck in 1997.

[JimG]

Two rules on trucks:

Always heavy duty, (3/4 ton or better). And always 4x4. Don't always need it, but when you do...

[mphatc]

I've had 2 Fords with the 5.4 liter . . no way never again! No pulling power in hills, certainly not with an 8500 lb load. The only way these trucks pull on the highway is at speeds you don't want to be trailering a boat.
I've had 2 sets of Ford brake rotors break, in half!!! :eek::yes: went to special cryo treated rotors and still warped them. many electrical functions failed, radio lighting, power locks, and the seats were worn out at 80K miles.

If you want 2wd and towing power, luxury, and brakes like no tomorrow, Get a Toyota Tundra with the 5.7 liter.

Add the 4 wd and the TRD Suspension and you have 10,000 lb tow capacity.
Plus it's built in the USA !

I just bought one, now with 4000 miles the fuel mileage around town is 18 . towing an enclosed car trailer at 9000 lbs I get 10.5 - 11 mpg. I expect this will rise more. The transmission functions like an Allison, slowing the rig with tap of the brakes . .

AFAIK, Toyota is still offering 60 months at 0% with money off . .

Mario L.

[dclassic]

As others have mentioned... The one time you NEED 4wd... it is PRICELESS! I have never owned a 2wd for just that reason. Do I use if often? No... But it sure is handy when I need it... like that time my 1/2 ton 4x4 got dragged down a steep hill backwards with a Donzi 22 classic in tow. :eek: 4wd's have better resale also, you will likely recoup most of the added expense at trade in time. The 2wd's do get a bit better mileage, but I find the peace of mind well worth it.

Good luck with your purchase. The new trucks are very nice and I have never seen discounts like we have now. Enjoy.

[Team Jefe]

Cut - I'm in the 4X4 camp as well. I have always had HD trucks and mostly 4WD. That being said IMHO it depends on where you drag and the ramps you use.

MP, Buiz, JimG, me....mostly in the flat lands and not steep ramps. 2WD works great. Heck with the Dually and 6-speed I just let the clutch out and the MEGA does all the rest.

You said dry ramps, etc. but think about the tow, if you're in hills, you need the up and down power. Again may be OK with 2WD, just be sure before you purchase. That same holds true of the 5.4. does it have the long term guts to do what you need. the Big D is expensive. but may be worth it in the long run....maybe not?

Mike had a good note on tires. I've seen many a 4X4 spinning in sand or wet grass on OEM tires, they are road tires.

for me HD 4X4 diesel is the way to go. If I was only using it for 7500 miles a year, I may look at a used truck in that range. HD Diesels are a dime a dozen these days. Heck thre is a hundred for sale within 5 miles of me, you can pick your brand and color:wink:

[yeller]

Regular 4X4's have a problem on slick ramps in the fact that when the rear lets loose on the Goo the front end hops like a mad man...MOP, I've seen you say that before, but I'd think you'd have to be an absolute idiot to get that to happen. Putting your foot into it won't help the traction. I've witnessed a lot of large boats being pulled out with 4x4's, but have never seen what you describe. I've seen some loose traction, but easing up on the pedal settles things down.


Cutwater, if you do end up going 2x4, take MOP's advice and make sure it is posi. Single wheel drive....you'll be screwed for sure.

[Donziweasel]

Phil, I respect the hell out of you, but I am going with yeller on this one. Never seen that happen. I have cavitated 4wd in deep snow or mud, but not often. Also, never seen a 2wd pull out a 4wd on the same ramp with same conditions. Mine has a limited slip rear end (300.00 option). Get it.

[VetteLT193]

The other thing I was randomly thinking about is if you are only planning on putting 7500 or so miles a year on the truck it's going to last a long time... it might be better to use regular depreciation methods depending on your business income this year vs. future years.

[mjw930]

Not to throw a wrench into the discussion but if you have X-Plan can you also get the Affinity pricing with Chrysler?

I ask because I had the opportunity to test drive the new RAM 1500 over the weekend and I'm seriously impressed. If you haven't seen / driven the '09 it's worth the time to check it out.

390HP multi-displacement motor for the good highway mileage and with the proper rear axle ratios it comes in with an 8650 lb tow rating.

The thing that got me was the ride and handling. Going to the coil spring rear suspension really makes it ride and handle like a large sedan.

[cutwater]

Dear Abby, haha... Wow, all good stuff. Here's my situation. I was only planning on spending a max of $20k + tax/title for a new vehicle (whether it be car or mid-size truck).

But then I realized through the X-plan I can get a 2008 4x2 F-250 XLT SuperCab w/ 5.4L auto trans, Limited-slip rear, remote/keyless entry, telescoping tow mirrors, & chrome tube steps for $24.5k + tax. There is pretty much no way I can spend any more on a vehicle right now (just got out of college less than 2 years ago and bought a house last month :nilly:). So, in all honesty, 4WD, the nice diesel, and the crew cab are all out of the picture unfortunately.

What I am trying to decide now is even though I can get this F-250 for $24.5k, is it worth it with just the 5.4L (heard mixed reviews) and without 4x4, or should I just get a midsize truck? I was particularly interested in the 3/4 ton because in the future I will be looking for a nice 27' to 30' Magnum to tow around... :wink:

Thoughts?
.
.
.
BTW mjw390, the discounts that put me in the correct price range only apply to 2008 models. What did you think about the '08 Ram 1500? I get discounts on these makes:
Ford/Lincoln/Mazda/Mercury
Chevy/GMC/Hummer/Buick/Cadillac/Pontiac
Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep
Nissan/Infiniti

[VetteLT193]

I'd go for a pretty well loaded F150 over a base F250, especially considering the engine is the same. I'm thinking you would be even on $$ on an FX4 F150 which is pretty well equipped.

When I bought the Nav. I made sure it was capable of towing a Formula 272 SR1. I'm pretty sure the F150 has a higher towing capacity than the Expedition/Nav. so you should be set.

The number 1 thing I would do is drive a comparably priced F150 and F250 to see how they drive... I really think you will find the base F250 to be really work truck-ish and work trucks really stink on any kind of long trip.

On another different note, Dodge around here is advertising over 40% off trucks so you might find a really smoking deal with a different company.

[RedDog]

...
We boat in the foothills to the Smokies ...

Better recheck your map there RSE. I live in the foothills of the Smokies and where you are boating is no where close.

Now if you said you boat in the foothills of Appalachia, I'd buy it :boggled:

[CHACHI]

Just traded in my 2000 F-250 desel for a '08 F150 lariat. First tank of gas 18MPG (sorry ED) haven't done any boat towing except from camp to the ramp so I can't comment on performance.

I only tow 750 miles/yr and I couldn't justify the "entry fee" fro the diesel package on a F-250

[RedDog]

Thoughts? Yes

You're crazy to buy a new truck - particularly since you think you will only be driving it 7500 miles per year. Why park it and take such of a depreciation hit in its value while it just sits?


You can likely find exactly what you just described in the 12 - 16K range with 4x4

I just bought a '04 4x4 1/2 ton Avalanche. 46,000 miles on it and it looks and smells like it just came off of the showroom floor

[cutwater]

Thoughts? Yes

You're crazy to buy a new truck - particularly since you think you will only be driving it 7500 miles per year. Why park it and take such of a depreciation hit in its value while it just sits?


You can likely find exactly what you just described in the 12 - 16K range with 4x4

I just bought a '04 4x4 1/2 ton Avalanche. 46,000 miles on it and it looks and smells like it just came off of the showroom floor

Yeah, I know. I was looking at this one tow vehicle, a Yukon XL 4x4, but it got pulled from the market :biggrin.::biggrin.::biggrin.::biggrin.::biggrin.: :biggrin.: . But seriously, I have started looking Craigslist and AutoTrader for used trucks, it just seems like a lot of sellers "haven't gotten the message" and are asking for 3 year old trucks just about the same price as '08 models. And there's a lot of trucks that have really been abused...

[chappy]

Yeah, I know. I was looking at this one tow vehicle, a Yukon XL 4x4, but it got pulled from the market :biggrin.::biggrin.::biggrin.::biggrin.::biggrin.: :biggrin.: . But seriously, I have started looking Craigslist and AutoTrader for used trucks, it just seems like a lot of sellers "haven't gotten the message" and are asking for 3 year old trucks just about the same price as '08 models. And there's a lot of trucks that have really been abused...

Check ebay's completed listings, it's a better barometer of what the market is dictating. Lots of guys have pipe dreams of getting back 85-90% of what they paid new 2-3 years ago, few if any are getting it.

[roadtrip se]

Pick your brand and flavor, but why go used and abused when there are many, many deals to be had at this time? A lot of abuse can be hidden by the gleam applied at the detail shop.

As for me, I would prefer to launch with something more than one wheel drive and guess I need to figure out my geography, but with all of this being said, there are hills, big'uns, at Lake Cumberland and if you ever plan to attend AOTH, bring a truck that can do the job.

[Cuda]

The tax writeoff is for gross weight which is way higher than curb weight. Last I checked full size pickups count including the F150. I know my Navigator makes the list.
I agree with you on styling, gotta give you the practical side though, not that we do anything practical around here as a bunch of Donzi owners!! :nilly:
I would at least drive both. The 150 with the 5.4 has to run better than the 250 with the 5.4. Or on a totally different note there are dealers totally blowing out the Lincoln Mark LT.
I think that tax deduction law sunseted last year, unless they reinstated it.

[Cuda]

Pick your brand and flavor, but why go used and abused when there are many, many deals to be had at this time? .
Money?

[Cuda]

I've had 2 Fords with the 5.4 liter . . no way never again! No pulling power in hills, certainly not with an 8500 lb load. The only way these trucks pull on the highway is at speeds you don't want to be trailering a boat.
I've had 2 sets of Ford brake rotors break, in half!!! :eek::yes: went to special cryo treated rotors and still warped them. many electrical functions failed, radio lighting, power locks, and the seats were worn out at 80K miles.
If you want 2wd and towing power, luxury, and brakes like no tomorrow, Get a Toyota Tundra with the 5.7 liter.
Add the 4 wd and the TRD Suspension and you have 10,000 lb tow capacity.
Plus it's built in the USA !
I just bought one, now with 4000 miles the fuel mileage around town is 18 . towing an enclosed car trailer at 9000 lbs I get 10.5 - 11 mpg. I expect this will rise more. The transmission functions like an Allison, slowing the rig with tap of the brakes . .
AFAIK, Toyota is still offering 60 months at 0% with money off . .
Mario L.
I had a 99 F150 4wd Lariat 5.4, that I hauled tons of tile with, pulled my 302 Formula with it, drove it for 122k miles, and other than oil changes, and an alternator at 111k, it was never touched. The original plugs, fluids, hoses, belts etc. I sold it to the first guy that looked at it. It still ran like a charm, only I wanted F250 for the stopping power. Stopping the 302 was problematic, but pulling power was never a problem.

[mattyboy]

but nothing throws a roostertail like a 2wd :nilly:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FshOpPqj88&feature=related




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvAQBimee80&NR=1

[DONZI]

My votes 4wd .
Example-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzVvqO_YYdw&feature=related












:kingme:

[Donzi Vol]

Cutwater, not sure how I forgot this before. Buy a Chevy! I'm sure some will disagree with me here, but I'm on my 3rd Chevy truck (traded others on newer vehicles) and have been VERY satisfied. Aside from the motor and drive train, they provide a very comfortable ride and all the creature comforts you could want. I see no reason to buy anything else. Unless of course it's a car...then it HAS to be German :yes:

[zelatore]

Cutwater, not sure how I forgot this before. Buy a Chevy! I'm sure some will disagree with me here, but I'm on my 3rd Chevy truck (traded others on newer vehicles) and have been VERY satisfied. Aside from the motor and drive train, they provide a very comfortable ride and all the creature comforts you could want. I see no reason to buy anything else. Unless of course it's a car...then it HAS to be German :yes:

Man, it's like we're on the same wavelength. I was just thinking exactly the same thing!

Except I was thinking the car could be Italian. And the truck woud be a Ford instead of a Chevy.

But other than that....


(and with that, the great Ford/Chevy/Toyota/Dodge dead horse rose from the grave to haunt us all...)

[Cuda]

Cutwater, not sure how I forgot this before. Buy a Chevy! I'm sure some will disagree with me here, but I'm on my 3rd Chevy truck (traded others on newer vehicles) and have been VERY satisfied. Aside from the motor and drive train, they provide a very comfortable ride and all the creature comforts you could want. I see no reason to buy anything else. Unless of course it's a car...then it HAS to be German :yes:
I've bought six brand new Fords in a row, and haven't had a problem yet.

The last Chebby I bought was a brand new diesel dually with all the options (ecpt 4wd). I ended up using the Lemon Law on it. GM could not get the rear end fixed.:mad:

Before you run out a buy one of those perfect German cars, I thought we dropped a couple bombs on Dresden a few years back.

[BUIZILLA]

you guys want a smoking killer deal
find yourself a friendly Lincoln dealer and see what they have for 4wd Mark LT's
if you can find one, and can get it at X plan, and then use the current $8500-$10,000 worth of rebates, you can get in one, fully loaded with Nav, for about 35k, that's on a 50k sticker truck... I saw them as cheap as under 30k for a 2wd this weekend... this is a REAL eye opener and a sleeper for sure.. dealers want out of them....
this is the last year for Mark LT's, so i'm seriously considering finding one for myself.... remove all the bling badges, and with the monochrome paint it's a killer comfy sharp ride...
down here they even have a zero down, sign and drive lease, for dirt cheap...
if I can find a silver, long bed, 4wd, monochrome package, tow package, it's pretty much a done deal ...

[BigGrizzly]

Well up until Ft Walto I never had a problem with the 2wd 1999 Expedition. I had som push help but could have gotten out anyway. My biggest problem is I took the bad ramp first and the boat was in a sand hole. I have never had trouble at Cumberland or any place before. I also do have a Jeep Grand Cherokee 4wd too I use for Donzi Weasel's reason. I use to travel up north and here had a very steep drive way, steeper then Lake Cumberland. So just get something with possi. The Expidition doesn't have it, yet, maybe never.

[Kirbyvv]

I've got a Grand Cherokee too. Never had to use 4wd at a ramp. I did have to 4wd once pulling the trailer to get going on wet grass in my own yard though .

[Ed Donnelly]

Just took my leased 2006 Harley F150 back today

Buy out is only $25,995..All Wheel drive and GREAT MILEAGE:mad: ...Ed

P.S. Last trip me only 175 lbs and 200 lbs in the back:eek:

[Donzi Vol]

Before you run out a buy one of those perfect German cars, I thought we dropped a couple bombs on Dresden a few years back.

There was a time in my life that I didn't have a taste for German cars, either. But then I drove one...and bought it. There were some people who thought that I bought it to look cool, but the fact is that it was a blast to drive! The only reason I got rid of it was because I needed something bigger for my new (then) job. Sadly I couldn't afford to keep it and pay the payment on my truck at the same time :frown:

[MOP]

Qoute: Yeller

MOP, I've seen you say that before, but I'd think you'd have to be an absolute idiot to get that to happen. Putting your foot into it won't help the traction. I've witnessed a lot of large boats being pulled out with 4x4's, but have never seen what you describe. I've seen some loose traction, but easing up on the pedal settles things down.

Qoute: Donziweasel

Phil, I respect the hell out of you, but I am going with yeller on this one. Never seen that happen. I have cavitated 4wd in deep snow or mud, but not often. Also, never seen a 2wd pull out a 4wd on the same ramp with same conditions. Mine has a limited slip rear end (300.00 option). Get it.

The 4X4's in question did not have posi, totally agree getting your foot out of it. A two wheel with posi will come up a gooey ramp that a 4X4 without has trouble on. MinxGuy has seen my 2X4 pull my 22 up one of the steepest ramps that either of us has seen. It is a Blind Bay Marina up at 1K, no joke you can fall trying to get in or out of the truck has to be near 30 degrees.

In my eyes posi is an absolute must on either!!

Phil

[Cuda]

I had my 4x4 stuck Sunday here behind my house in the woods. They had just clear cut the area, and "potato rowed" it. In retrospect, I should have taken the sandy road. I didn't realize how deep the potato rows were, and by then, it was too late. I was high centered, with one wheel completely off the ground.:eek: