HP500 or HP525...in a 22C..??

[Air 22]

:cool:Ok..so IF a friend of mine were to consider swithching to "BLUE" under the hatch of his 22C...anyone with ACTUALL EXPERIENCE with these motor's see a benefit of one over the other..I See more HP @ the prop on the 525(500hp) vs the 500(470hp)...525(Closed Cooling) 500(Raw Water cooling)...and the HP500 no longer in production? So...any thoughts...??

[roadtrip se]

HP. The 500 is really 500-515 HP. The 525 is 540-565, so there is a significant HP difference. Real world, probably 3-5mph.

Cooling and pipes. I would be inclined to run the 525 in salt conditions due to the closed cooling, but you do hear of issues involving the sweeper headers living in salt conditions. The 500 is open-looped cooled, but hasn't had header issues in salt or fresh.

The 525 has Smartcraft and a more up-to-date engine management system. The 500 is more readily modifiable, because it doesn't have these things. Neither have any real use in a Donzi Classic.

So it really comes down to cash is king. Street price on a 525 is 19-23K. Street price on a 500 is 10-14K. That buys a lot of re-freshes and upgrades that could more than overtake the 525 horsepower advantage in my book. I am getting ready to do my first 500 top end after six years of hard use, after spending $12K to get mine.

I think you know where my vote lies. There are still plenty of 500's in service. Parts are readily available and the cost of entry is much lower. Better value and I have really enjoyed mine.

[The Hedgehog]

500 EFI - One of the best merc motors built! No probs with headers, easy to mod (as if they don't make enough hp) and a great value. I wish they still made them. Buy them while you can. You will always be able to get parts.:pimp:

I also wish they still made the 502 mag. Dang good motor too. There is no way you could use the 496 as a base for my motor.

[Air 22]

good points...Todd my HP #'s are @ the Prop...The 500 really has a great track record...decsions decsions..:rolleyes::rolleyes::nilly:

[BUIZILLA]

500...

[BUIZILLA]

500...

[Air 22]

500 EFI (470-hp)
Mercury Racing sterndrives continue to lead the marine industry with precision craftsmanship combined with state-of-the-art technology, durability and reliability. The 500 EFI is the introduction to the big block racing machines for MerCruiser. It's used in APBA offshore racing as well as consumer boats.
Fast Facts Propshaft HP 470-hp
Configuration V-8
Displacement 8.2/ 502
Bore & Stroke 114 x 102
Fuel System MPI
Base Engine Weight 1113 lbs.
Length/Width/Height 39 x 34 x 22
Max RPM@WOT 5200
Warranty 1-year
Key Features
Precision CNC machined 502 C.I.D. cast iron cylinder block.
Forged 4340 steel, fully machined and shot-peened Mercury Racing connecting rods.
MEFI 3 ignition system precisely controls both idle speed and detonation.
Multiport fuel injection system incorporates a high-flow throttle body and tuned intake manifold developed exclusively by Mercury Racing.
The oil thermostat and a Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) valve work together to reduce the buildup of condensation in the oil. The PCV valve also improves engine idle.
A hydraulic roller camshaft, which improves low-end torque, offers higher level of performance and aids fuel economy.
Standard with 1.36:1 or 1.50:1 gear ratio Bravo One XZ drive in either right-hand or left-hand rotation.
Bravo One XR, Bravo One XR Sport Master, Bravo One Short Sport Master and Dry-Sump Six drive options available.
Dual-water pickup and low-water pickup gearcase housings for Bravo One XZ and Bravo One XR drives.

[glashole]

has anyone priced out a new merc 700.........................

[blackhawk]

Well, we swap for hp and speed gains right? So, the 525 is obviously the better choice. However, there's that pesky price difference as RT pointed out.

[Air 22]

Well... I need somone to STEP-UP w me...:confused::boggled:
At 140 hrs Anything the 500 may need? Im told maybe valve springs but that's prob all...
Can the ECU be checked to see the eng history...ie RPM's etc? Is this data easily obtained? I'd kinda like to know how they were run b4 buying...:pimp:

Anything else that should be asked??

My 502 is a carb set-up...will i need to run a entire new Merc wire harness or can the existing be modified to work..ie change connection plugs etc??:rolleyes:

[The Hedgehog]

Well... I need somone to STEP-UP w me...:confused::boggled:
At 140 hrs Anything the 500 may need? Im told maybe valve springs but that's prob all...
Can the ECU be checked to see the eng history...ie RPM's etc? Is this data easily obtained? I'd kinda like to know how they were run b4 buying...:pimp:
Anything else that should be asked??
My 502 is a carb set-up...will i need to run a entire new Merc wire harness or can the existing be modified to work..ie change connection plugs etc??:rolleyes:

Yes, you can flash the ECU. It will tell you how much time at various power levels

[Carl C]

IF a friend of mine were to consider swithching to "BLUE" under the hatch of his 22C...




My 502 is a carb set-up...will i need to run a entire new Merc wire harness or can the existing be modified to work..

Good luck to your friend.:cool!:

[kramsay1234]

I have spoken to your "friend" and I think that there is likely a 500EFI in his future. If a 525 came along at a great price that would likely be the way to go, but the price difference is not worth the hp difference in my books.

Good luck. You will not rest until you make this next mod and do it while the market is soft and your motor is out. Even if you have to hang on to the 502 until you get what you need for it.

For now, I am keeping my boat the way it came from the factory. 75 on gps seems monumental for a stock ZX so until I have an engine failure, I think she will stay as is (except maybe for headers).

[smokediver]

I think I know of a hp500 carbed for sale real reasonable . if you are interested let me know .. May be able to save you a little jingle .

[blackhawk]

Well... I need somone to STEP-UP w me...:confused::boggled:
At 140 hrs Anything the 500 may need? Im told maybe valve springs but that's prob all...
Can the ECU be checked to see the eng history...ie RPM's etc? Is this data easily obtained? I'd kinda like to know how they were run b4 buying...:pimp:
Anything else that should be asked??
My 502 is a carb set-up...will i need to run a entire new Merc wire harness or can the existing be modified to work..ie change connection plugs etc??:rolleyes:

It was the carb motors with the valve spring problems if I remember right. Your harness will plug right in.

I really don't get why people want to sell engines as a pair. He could probably sell them faster AND get more money if he seperated them.

[osur866]

Didn't all the 525's also have alum. heads along with closed cooling , as apposed to steal heads and no closed cooling on the 500 efi's ? steve

[VetteLT193]

Didn't all the 525's also have alum. heads along with closed cooling , as apposed to steal heads and no closed cooling on the 500 efi's ? steve

Yes, and the whole inside of the engine is really beefed up.

Dollar for Dollar though, you could buy a 500 and a procharger and be even on the money compared to a 525 but have 700+ HP.

In regards to this thread, the Carbed version fits in the 22, it's a direct replacement for what you have, and are far cheaper than the EFI's I have seen. Really good value. You can do a full top end rebuild on a carbed 500 and still have less into it than an EFI model without the top end redone... and the top end will need to be gone through at 200 or so hours with or without EFI.

[blackhawk]

A carb motor will obviously be cheaper, but and EFI is, well, an EFI. :D Neither of them should need top end rebuilds at 200 hours.

You can't go wrong with any of the 500 motors!

[The Hedgehog]

A carb motor will obviously be cheaper, but and EFI is, well, an EFI. :D Neither of them should need top end rebuilds at 200 hours.
You can't go wrong with any of the 500 motors!

They will both need top ends around the 200 hour mark..maybe 250. After 250 you are betting on the sky. I would at least do the springs and retainers. Will they make 350, maybe but it will be very expensive if they don't.

They still tote a pretty nice size cam. Dang good motors.

[roadtrip se]

I've had both and there is absolutely no comparsion. The EFI smokes the carb version. Why? Need more detail? Read on...

The carb version takes FOREVER to warm up. Real exciting if you pull off the trailer too soon and STALL. EFI, while grumpy when cold, won't stall off the trailer.

The carb version had a sink hole in the midrange, until the secondaries kicked in. The EFI has one mean and FLAT torque curve with no pot holes.

In hot temps, the carb would vapor lock and STAY vapor-locked for awhile.
No such issue with the EFI. Complete PITA.

The carbed version ate valve springs much earlier than the EFI. Recommended replacement for the carbed valve spring is the same number as the EFI for obvious reasons.

GIL headers on the carbed version were prone to reversion. The CMIs on the EFI rock and look mom, no reversion issues.

The price dif between the 500EFI and the 525EFI is significant. The difference between the 500's is worth it. Way worth it.

[John W]

What year boat are you thinking of putting it in?
JW

[Pismo]

An HP500 is only 45hp more than a 496HO and 55hp more than a 502Mag. Seems like you could juice those up to the same hp for much less $$ (assuming you had one of these to start from) There is a big $$ premium on those blue motors.

[blackhawk]

They will both need top ends around the 200 hour mark..maybe 250. After 250 you are betting on the sky. I would at least do the springs and retainers. Will they make 350, maybe but it will be very expensive if they don't.
They still tote a pretty nice size cam. Dang good motors.

Big difference between top-end rebuilds and valve springs. On average a 500EFI will go a lot further than 200 hours before needing a top-end rebuild.

[blackhawk]

An HP500 is only 45hp more than a 496HO and 55hp more than a 502Mag. Seems like you could juice those up to the same hp for much less $$ (assuming you had one of these to start from) There is a big $$ premium on those blue motors.

The actual hp of the 496HO is lower than advertised while the 500EFI is higher. There is about 70hp between them. Yes, you could upgrade the 496, but by the time you spend the money to upgrade you would probably be better off selling your 496 and buying the 500. And you still have a cast iron motor that has hp limitations. The 500EFI is a stout motor that you can upgrade even further down the road. Plus, blue motors look sweet under the hatch! :)

[The Hedgehog]

Big difference between top-end rebuilds and valve springs. On average a 500EFI will go a lot further than 200 hours before needing a top-end rebuild.

I agree on both accounts. On the other hand you will need to ask yourself how risk averse you are after the 250 hour point. The cost of swallowing a valve can be very expensive.

[VetteLT193]

JW...Looking to put "Blue" in my 1995 22C:biggrin.:

Well geez, if all you want is the blue you can get the spray paint from a guy on OSO. :biggrin.:

[Pismo]

The actual hp of the 496HO is lower than advertised while the 500EFI is higher. There is about 70hp between them. Yes, you could upgrade the 496, but by the time you spend the money to upgrade you would probably be better off selling your 496 and buying the 500. And you still have a cast iron motor that has hp limitations. The 500EFI is a stout motor that you can upgrade even further down the road. Plus, blue motors look sweet under the hatch! :)

I agree I would feel better building up a 502Mag.

[The Hedgehog]

The actual hp of the 496HO is lower than advertised while the 500EFI is higher. There is about 70hp between them. Yes, you could upgrade the 496, but by the time you spend the money to upgrade you would probably be better off selling your 496 and buying the 500. And you still have a cast iron motor that has hp limitations. The 500EFI is a stout motor that you can upgrade even further down the road. Plus, blue motors look sweet under the hatch! :)

Word to the 502 base block! Upgrades have little limitations

[BigGrizzly]

Now I am gong to jump in with both feet. Both the HP500 carb and EFI are similar. as for warm up RT is correct. As for the valve springs if they were original on the carb one yes replace them because merc used cheap ones on that engine and changed because of that issue. As for the mid range bogg some did some didn't because somewhere in the set up carbs spec was changed. I took two apart and found the port was set up different then the starboard engine. Merc said this wasn't true but I have seen it many times. The bog is easily fixed if it exists. So if you get one of either style with over 150 hours I wold check the springs out. I have seen 25 hour old hp500EFIs drop valves. The only problem with EFI is there is no cold start up so people have a habit of running too hard while still cold. Now is the EFI faster then the carb--NO. So pick your poison. I use a carb, because that is what I have. Normally I don't have any issues.

[BigGrizzly]

Air 22, I talked t Garry today and one of his customers had 2 hp525s take outs and sold one, it has 36 hours. I don't know the price I will find out Friday. call if interested. The guy is putting a pair of 800s in the boat.

[Air 22]

Air 22, I talked t Garry today and one of his customers had 2 hp525s take outs and sold one, it has 36 hours. I don't know the price I will find out Friday. call if interested. The guy is putting a pair of 800s in the boat.




Randy...plz keep me posted on this...thanks...:)

[BigGrizzly]

Have no fear, if the price is good I will call Doc because I have his number unless you e-mail me yours. Garry said he is going to try to get for you at a good price, so keep your fingers crossed. At this point he likes me, my boat is a good sales tool. BTW regardlewss you will have first dibbs unless the owner sells it before garry gets to him.

[BUIZILLA]

sold one,

Err, I have Dwights #, and if the price is good on the pair, we need to talk please sir... you snoozed..

[BigGrizzly]

If the first guy bails I will call. But before you discount the bathroom, just remember that Valentines Day many years ago.