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d1mbu1b
10-04-2008, 05:50 PM
fire away...

recommendations welcome.

should I redwork the transom and raise and separate the exhaust tips or
just run a marine exhaust hose.

Ed Donnelly
10-04-2008, 06:02 PM
Sell those headers and buy bolt on Stainless Marine ...Ed

BUIZILLA
10-04-2008, 06:18 PM
was the timing cover and water pump optional on that model ?

mrfixxall
10-04-2008, 09:44 PM
fire away...
recommendations welcome.
should I redwork the transom and raise and separate the exhaust tips or
just run a marine exhaust hose.

UMMMM! you need to run a double wall stainless steel tail pipe with water running through them, rubber hose will melt plus if you dump the water where the tow connect you will get water in the cylinders..

Seriously! unless your making over 500 hp those headers wont make anymore power..find a nice set of center riser manifolds..

MOP
10-04-2008, 10:43 PM
Tell us what you do know about what you have, Looking in the bilge there has been some panel support and stringer up dating.

f_inscreenname
10-04-2008, 11:15 PM
Don't do that. Or someday someone like me will have to come back and fix it.
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/1019/47976460ct2.jpg

mphatc
10-05-2008, 07:55 AM
I see a Mercruiser power steering ram, what hangs on the back?

as you have it now you have several issues, the exhaust will affixiate the operator, the transom may leak, and the bilge will fill with oil from the timing chain :nilly::biggrin.:

Mario L.

MOP
10-05-2008, 08:35 PM
:pimp:

d1mbu1b
10-06-2008, 08:47 AM
Sell those headers and buy bolt on Stainless Marine ...Ed
I would if I had $2500. but they are only 1-7/8" x 22" (or so) primaries still not long enough for a small block running at or under 5000. These are about 33"

was the timing cover and water pump optional on that model ?
As of now, yes. The timing chain was severely stretched out.
replacing with a double roller,a harwood cam drive, and crossover.

UMMMM! you need to run a double wall stainless steel tail pipe with water running through them, rubber hose will melt plus if you dump the water where the tow connect you will get water in the cylinders..
Seriously! unless your making over 500 hp those headers wont make anymore power..find a nice set of center riser manifolds..
great tips, thanks.
Does the same go for the blue marine silicone exhaust hose?
Do you say it will melt because its rubber and rubber melts, or because its too close to the collector?
I'm still deciding about where to dump the dump, but your right better to be safe and dump downstream.
~500 is the goal, one way or another.
I have a set of nice center rise manifolds, GIL offshore.
As I see it, there are no commercial manifolds or headers available for SBC that will actually promote scavenging. By putting the center-risers on, I may as well put in a tow cam and give up.

I see a Mercruiser power steering ram, what hangs on the back?

volvo pwr. str. ram and volvo DPS w/ F8s

:pimp:
what does this mean?

mrfixxall
10-06-2008, 09:51 AM
As I see it, there are no commercial manifolds or headers available for SBC that will actually promote scavenging. By putting the center-risers on, I may as well put in a tow cam and give up

Does your gill offshore's have a long ss riser(30+ inches)? you could use them with a big cam.

The blue marine hose will melt over a period of time if theirs no water going through it.Big money wasted!

Those headers need stainless steel water cooled tail pipes that the water blends at the tip(outside the boat)

MOP
10-06-2008, 10:32 AM
Are those header tips water feed? It looks like tubes at the back, the main part of the headers looks to be dry. You would not be able to run a hatch due to the heat.
Phil

ky-donzi
10-06-2008, 10:44 AM
They look water jacketed to me look at the collector there are loop tubes to connect to the collector. It just looks like they don't mix the water until past the collector.....

d1mbu1b
10-06-2008, 02:18 PM
Yes. they are water jacketed.

BlownCrewCab
10-06-2008, 02:29 PM
Poodle could probably talk someone at stainless marine into making you a set of tail pipes to work with what you have if you REALLY want to use them. what brand are they? Where's the original tail pipes? the original tail pipes can be modified.

VetteLT193
10-06-2008, 03:52 PM
will the hatch close? they look higher than the deck in the picture.

blackhawk
10-06-2008, 08:50 PM
UMMMM! you need to run a double wall stainless steel tail pipe with water running through them, rubber hose will melt plus if you dump the water where the tow connect you will get water in the cylinders..
Seriously! unless your making over 500 hp those headers wont make anymore power..find a nice set of center riser manifolds..

mrfixxall, couldn't you use a single wall tail pipe and dump the water into the exhaust at the collector? Or would you have reversion?

d1mbu1b
10-07-2008, 07:31 AM
will the hatch close? they look higher than the deck in the picture.
The hatch is very close and will need some shaving...

mrfixxall, couldn't you use a single wall tail pipe and dump the water into the exhaust at the collector? Or would you have reversion?
-IF- this exhaust is tuned they way I think it is, reversion should be mitigated and scavenging maximized to take advantage of my overlap. Which is the whole point of why I am stubbornly pursuing it.
Not sure how it will act at idle though.
Even though there is no riser, the tubes are very long; and
gravity probably has very little affect on the reversion pulses anyway.
So it is possible with a 'mild-ish' (XR270HR) cam and a relatively long distance to where the water is dumped that I may get lucky.
My GIL's are 25 inches from the closest port to the water dump and I did not have reversion. These headers are 33".
I will have to test it.


what brand are they? Where's the original tail pipes? the original tail pipes can be modified.
They were made by Patterson Marine, I could not get a hold of the guy. I think he was an early racer out in CA. The story goes: they were ceases by the DEA along with the rest of a marina's assets and auctioned. I have nothing to back that up; but its the story I was told. probably hooplah.
I have not found 'real' long tube water jacketed SS headers for a SBC anywhere else.
Not sure if there were original tailpipes; but all the good discussion and all your good ideas has given me much to experiment with, thanks.
I figure this is more of an experiment/hobby for me. so I am not too worried about honking it up. Its posible these things are POS's and I waste all my time and effort and money.

ky-donzi
10-07-2008, 08:00 AM
dimbu1b

Where those headers on ebay about this time last year? I remember a guy that had a set and a half of headers just like those. They had the same DEA story attached to them..

Looks like you could wait to mix the water until the very end of the tail pipe and prevent reversion... but I am not expert on these

d1mbu1b
10-07-2008, 08:23 AM
Where those headers on ebay about this time last year? I remember a guy that had a set and a half of headers just like those. They had the same DEA story attached to them..
Yes, I figured for the price they were worth the gamble

BlownCrewCab
10-07-2008, 08:37 AM
Patterson makes great stuff, No question there. is it a slip fit where the tail pipe would attach to the header? if so tail pipes should be a breeze to have made.

d1mbu1b
10-07-2008, 03:50 PM
....

MOP
10-07-2008, 04:36 PM
I think you are right on the reversion not being a problem, my buddy has a jet boat with similar over the transom headers. They are fed through very tiny S/S lines and dump near the tips, the cam he has rocks the boat at idle it is insane by marine standard. He may be shooting less water but still it is there to be sucked in and it does not.

BlownCrewCab
10-07-2008, 06:58 PM
Great pic of the collector. you can easily have tail pipes made, with the single hose dump tube from the collector you can choose where you induce water into the exhaust flow. if you want to use those and they fit under the hatch you have a great set of true headers, tail pipes for that is no problem. Not really cheap, but not high dollar either, it's just a slip fit with a retaining tab and a dump tube. I personally like to dump the tail pipe cooling water at the tail end of the pipe, it makes it a bit louder but it makes it sound like you have headers. If they fit I'd keep'um.

maddad
10-08-2008, 03:22 PM
Do I understand this right? This boat will have 16 or so inches of uncooled/unjacketed tail pipe under the hatch now?

d1mbu1b
10-08-2008, 03:48 PM
Do I understand this right? This boat will have 16 or so inches of uncooled/unjacketed tail pipe under the hatch now?
I think the current line of thought is to dump the water after the collector and see if if any issues arise. Still a long ways away from that point, however.
still open to suggestions

VetteLT193
10-08-2008, 04:26 PM
I think the current line of thought is to dump the water after the collector and see if if any issues arise. Still a long ways away from that point, however.
still open to suggestions

There is usually a multi dump to promote the water being sprayed everywhere. My EMI's have 4 small dumps 90 degrees apart so the water sprays in to the pipe in a cross pattern.

I also believe you are putting too much weight on the scavenging effect. It's not the best on V8 engines regardless of what you do, and it is a pain to really get a good set that matches your power band. You can find headers for the small block that will probably be as good as what you have for scavenging from Lightning and CMI and they won't require any cutting.

mrfixxall
10-08-2008, 05:16 PM
I think the current line of thought is to dump the water after the collector and see if if any issues arise. Still a long ways away from that point, however.
still open to suggestions


ok take a torch and hold it to a piece of rubber hose and see how ling it takes to melt it,black or blue hose its going to melt..bouble wall ss tails with the wate dumping at the tip :yes:

BlownCrewCab
10-08-2008, 05:22 PM
Do I understand this right? This boat will have 16 or so inches of uncooled/unjacketed tail pipe under the hatch now?


NO, The Tail pipes are water jacketed just like the headers, they are fed by the nipple that you see in the in the collector photo. The whole exhaust system is water cooled but you have to jump over the collector connection with a hose.

VetteLT193
10-08-2008, 05:44 PM
NO, The Tail pipes are water jacketed just like the headers, they are fed by the nipple that you see in the in the collector photo. The whole exhaust system is water cooled but you have to jump over the collector connection with a hose.

I thought the nipple is the dump and he was talking about routing that back into the exhaust to make it wet instead of dry

maddad
10-08-2008, 06:27 PM
NO, The Tail pipes are water jacketed just like the headers, they are fed by the nipple that you see in the in the collector photo. The whole exhaust system is water cooled but you have to jump over the collector connection with a hose.
That's how I thought it should be, but it sounded like the water was going to be dumped like LT193 described.

BlownCrewCab
10-08-2008, 07:26 PM
The dump tube at the collector is just to transfer the water from the headers to the tail pipe, the tail pipe will have a tube just like the collector connected with a small hose, from there the next decision is where in the tail pipe to induce water into the exhaust or dump it out a fitting on the transom or out the tip of the pipe, the water needs to go in one end of the tail pipe, and out the other to cool the whole pipe.