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Conquistador_del_mar
09-23-2008, 11:35 AM
Since I am a collector of North American artifacts, I had to choose between these two rocks on ebay over the weekend. I went with the one that will skip over water even though that is a very nice saddleback bannerstone. I will be picking up my new project over this next weekend in northern Missouri since the seller has agreed to meet me half way from Wisconsin to where I live in north Texas. Road trip!! Bill

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=300260158130&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=020

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=011&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=320299640881&rd=1

zelatore
09-23-2008, 11:53 AM
LOL - good one.

Just looking at the title of this post, I thought it should be in the political section....

Every time I see a project like this I think 'yeah...I could do that...it would be fun to start from scratch...' Then I remember what a procrastinator I am and that I'd be distracted by the next shiny object long before I could ever finish something that big.

Morgan's Cloud
09-23-2008, 11:53 AM
I don't think the bannerstone will handle a very large BBC and DP well .... :tongue:

Please educate me here ... what is the significance of the 'bannerstone' ...
Steve

Ed Donnelly
09-23-2008, 11:56 AM
I'd rethink this
Bannerstone only requires 1 manpower to really fly over the water...Ed

Conquistador_del_mar
09-23-2008, 12:08 PM
LOL - good one.

Just looking at the title of this post, I thought it should be in the political section....

Every time I see a project like this I think 'yeah...I could do that...it would be fun to start from scratch...' Then I remember what a procrastinator I am and that I'd be distracted by the next shiny object long before I could ever finish something that big.

I hear you! I had to think about the ramifications of taking this one on. The reality is that it will take me at least 6 months, but I will have a great cruiser when I am done. Bill


I don't think the bannerstone will handle a very large BBC and DP well .... :tongue:

Please educate me here ... what is the significance of the 'bannerstone' ...
Steve

Steve,
The general consensus is that a drilled bannerstone was used as a weight in the slinging of an atlatl spear. However there are some which are considered ceremonial. Here is a double crescent bannerstone in my collection that would be considered ceremonial because the size is too large for practical use. There are many artifacts which the archaeologists are not really sure of usage since the associated wood artifacts are never found except in dry caves. Bill

Conquistador_del_mar
09-23-2008, 12:23 PM
I'd rethink this
Bannerstone only requires 1 manpower to really fly over the water...Ed

Yeah, I thought about that after I posted the thread. I should have said only one was made to skip over the water. Bill

MOP
09-23-2008, 02:56 PM
Looks to be one heck of a deal! Good luck with the up coming sweat time!!

Phil

Conquistador_del_mar
09-23-2008, 04:25 PM
Looks to be one heck of a deal! Good luck with the up coming sweat time!!

Phil

Yep, lots of sweat time coming up. That's what keeps me trim - lol. Thanks, I thought it was a great deal, too. Just what I was looking for. Bill

HIGH LIFE
09-25-2008, 06:18 PM
Bill, This boat would look great with a pair of Merc 300 on a bracket !!!! I have a sedan w/twin 300 Pro Max's on the transom, 71gps. Call me if you need any parts. HIGH LIFE

Conquistador_del_mar
09-25-2008, 09:14 PM
Bill, This boat would look great with a pair of Merc 300 on a bracket !!!! I have a sedan w/twin 300 Pro Max's on the transom, 71gps. Call me if you need any parts. HIGH LIFE

Michael,
My gameplan is to power it with a single with a Bravo III drive. I will call you when I get to see what it really needs. I think you mentioned that you had a lot of the hardware? I will be picking it up Saturday afternoon/evening and returning by Sunday. Thanks for the suggestion and phone conversations. Bill

Conquistador_del_mar
09-28-2008, 12:08 PM
Since I am a collector of North American artifacts, I had to choose between these two rocks on ebay over the weekend. I went with the one that will skip over water even though that is a very nice saddleback bannerstone. I will be picking up my new project over this next weekend in northern Missouri since the seller has agreed to meet me half way from Wisconsin to where I live in north Texas. Road trip!! Bill

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=300260158130&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=020

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=011&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=320299640881&rd=1

I had a long trip yesterday, but I picked up the Magnum in Rolla, Missouri and ended up driving all the way home last night - arriving at home at 4:00AM this morning - :boggled:
Here is a picture of the seller (looks a lot like Hulk Hogan in person) that I took last evening in Rolla. Bill

superhatz
09-28-2008, 02:47 PM
He looks a lot like Hulk Hogan in the photo too!......:)

Congrats Bill!!

:party:

fast fun 2
09-28-2008, 04:56 PM
Why a Bravo III?

Conquistador_del_mar
09-28-2008, 07:12 PM
Why a Bravo III?

I want a single in the Magnum restoration and I figure it will handle about 500HP plus it will not require external steering with the counter rotating props (almost no steering torque) plus it is decently reliable and relatively cheap to repair if it does develop problems. Bill

Conquistador_del_mar
09-28-2008, 07:14 PM
He looks a lot like Hulk Hogan in the photo too!......:)

Congrats Bill!!

:party:

Thanks, Aaron! I forgot to look for the numbers under the dash today - I was busy trying to make room for it. Thanks again for the auction link and the great picture you sent! Bill

Conquistador_del_mar
09-28-2008, 07:28 PM
Here is one of the pictures I took today outside of my shop building - I will post more pictures of the interior later. It looks great in the shop with the 1971 18' 2+3! Sort of a father/son picture - lol. Bill

superhatz
09-28-2008, 07:43 PM
I'm excited Bill......is that original gel?

Conquistador_del_mar
09-28-2008, 09:11 PM
No, Aaron, it looks like it was originally a light greenish color, but I will try to find out tomorrow for sure. This color was painted on at some point. I have tons of things I will be doing on it, and I will start a thread when I really get going. I did see the two large fuel tanks with built in gauges instead of sending units - was that typical?
Also a friend of mine here told me today that he looked at a copy cat boat over the weekend that will be auctioned off - he said it was an Aero which I believe you knew this one was not. What is the story on the Aero? Any good? Bill

cutwater
09-28-2008, 09:21 PM
Bill this is awesome! By the way, what is that other hull in your shop?

superhatz
09-28-2008, 09:34 PM
No, Aaron, it looks like it was originally a light greenish color, but I will try to find out tomorrow for sure. This color was painted on at some point. I have tons of things I will be doing on it, and I will start a thread when I really get going. I did see the two large fuel tanks with built in gauges instead of sending units - was that typical?
Also a friend of mine here told me today that he looked at a copy cat boat over the weekend that will be auctioned off - he said it was an Aero which I believe you knew this one was not. What is the story on the Aero? Any good? Bill

Yep....the tanks with built in gauges are original.....:)

Aero built a near copy of a 27 Sport but there are enough detail differences that I can tell them apart.

Your boat, if the dash is original, is about a '73 or later.....take a look under the dash for the hull #......I'm sure if the transom had one, it's been covered up.

My boat is hull #301 built 06/74......the hull numbers included all 27 Magnums. Sports, Sedans, Starfires and the later center consoles.

:)

BUIZILLA
09-28-2008, 09:35 PM
was this boat originally a single engine TRS boat?

Conquistador_del_mar
09-28-2008, 10:13 PM
Yep....the tanks with built in gauges are original.....:)

Aero built a near copy of a 27 Sport but there are enough detail differences that I can tell them apart.

Your boat, if the dash is original, is about a '73 or later.....take a look under the dash for the hull #......I'm sure if the transom had one, it's been covered up.

My boat is hull #301 built 06/74......the hull numbers included all 27 Magnums. Sports, Sedans, Starfires and the later center consoles.

:)

Yep, I'll look under the dash tomorrow. So, are the Aeros any good? My friend might try to bid on one. Thanks for the help. Bill

Conquistador_del_mar
09-28-2008, 10:15 PM
was this boat originally a single engine TRS boat?

No, this one originally had twins - Volvos from what the seller told me, but they were removed before he even bought it. The seller was planning on a single drive, but he realized how much work was necessary so he sold it. He did pay $3000 to have the transom replaced and a couple water pickup holes in the bottom filled. Bill

Conquistador_del_mar
09-28-2008, 10:17 PM
Bill this is awesome! By the way, what is that other hull in your shop?

1973 Magnum 27 Sport and a 1971 Donzi 18 2+3.

superhatz
09-28-2008, 10:19 PM
I'm not sure on the quality?......there is a 28 Aero on Ebay, is that the one?

Here's the 27 Sport copy made by Aero......the boat on the right looks like the one on Ebay.

cutwater
09-28-2008, 10:23 PM
1973 Magnum 27 Sport and a 1971 Donzi 18 2+3.

I thought it might be your 18, but for some reason it looked bigger than 18' :bonk:

superhatz
09-28-2008, 10:23 PM
More Aeros......lots were singles and most had Stern Powr drives.

Magnum made very few single engine 27 Sports.....all the one's I've seen were built as race boats.

Conquistador_del_mar
09-28-2008, 11:18 PM
I'm not sure on the quality?......there is a 28 Aero on Ebay, is that the one?

Here's the 27 Sport copy made by Aero......the boat on the right looks like the one on Ebay.

The one my friend found over the weekend is one that is at a local marina with back rental overdue.

Conquistador_del_mar
09-28-2008, 11:26 PM
More Aeros......lots were singles and most had Stern Powr drives.

Magnum made very few single engine 27 Sports.....all the one's I've seen were built as race boats.

Nice looking boats. I am guessing you can't get Sternpower parts anymore - correct? You probably already know about this 29'9" Magnum race boat for sale. He wants $15,000 but it comes with quite a few parts. Bill

superhatz
09-28-2008, 11:28 PM
Is it this one?

superhatz
09-28-2008, 11:30 PM
Nice looking boats. I am guessing you can't get Sternpower parts anymore - correct? You probably already know about this 29'9" Magnum race boat for sale. He wants $15,000 but it comes with quite a few parts. Bill

Apparently you can get Stern Powr parts.....I think they're still around?

Yeah....I'd love to buy the 29'9".....someone needs to rescue it.

Conquistador_del_mar
09-28-2008, 11:46 PM
Is it this one?

If that picture was taken at a Texas marina then it might be the one. Mike didn't tell me much about the boat except that it was an Aero that looked like a Magnum 27. I can ask him tomorrow about the colors.

smidgen too
09-29-2008, 01:05 AM
I'm not sure on the quality?......there is a 28 Aero on Ebay, is that the one?

Here's the 27 Sport copy made by Aero......the boat on the right looks like the one on Ebay.


Areo marine, Lancer marine, Predator, and yes Awesome, and more!! were boat companies here in Michigan,, by the same guy Jim Clem. The 27' vee bottom's were a copy made off the Magnum sport [Double Vision] . Most of the 24'&27' vee bottom boats Jim built were single engine with STERNPOWER IO's. The Stern Power drive's were a updated version of the old Dana drive found on house boats in the late 60's. The drives are quite strong and the trans is a Velvet Drive72c by B W.
I believe they are still made, and go by Stern Powr BX series now.
The glass work in the boats was not that bad , and if you rigged it youself you had a Magnum copy for half the price. The decks were the same only difference no skid were the wood insert was, also they did not have the chrome intake vents on the side,, just holes or screens. But I must say it still wasnt a Magnum, I had both. I rigged the MARIAH with the owner and it turned out very nice. The [DANGEROUS , PREDATOR] also was a Aero and one of the few that had a good racing career, it also raced as Mr Zip.

superhatz
09-29-2008, 01:53 AM
I knew you'd chime in eventually Mark.....:)

olredalert
09-29-2008, 08:41 AM
-------Smidgen is correct. Jim built these Aeros. That "Quixotic" Aero is still around. Its at a marine salvage place on 26 mile road outside Marine City next to the Marine City airport. The building is actually the old "Awesome" plant. Its been for sale by almost everyone who ever owned it shortly after they got it from what I can tell. It has twin small-blocks and Sternpowers. I have yet to see it underway. I think I have heard bad stories about some Aeros. I believe the stories were wrapped around the wood used, but its possible that I have the stories confused with later boats built by a son??? Somebody that was wrapped up with Awesome cats left quite a trail of disgruntled people in thier wake.........Bill S

smidgen too
09-29-2008, 10:46 AM
-------Smidgen is correct. Jim built these Aeros. That "Quixotic" Aero is still around. Its at a marine salvage place on 26 mile road outside Marine City next to the Marine City airport. The building is actually the old "Awesome" plant. Its been for sale by almost everyone who ever owned it shortly after they got it from what I can tell. It has twin small-blocks and Sternpowers. I have yet to see it underway. I think I have heard bad stories about some Aeros. I believe the stories were wrapped around the wood used, but its possible that I have the stories confused with later boats built by a son??? Somebody that was wrapped up with Awesome cats left quite a trail of disgruntled people in thier wake.........Bill S

Bill I sometimes hate to admit it but I bought the first offshore boat from Jim back in 1974, a 24' Cheetah. Then all my friends bought from him the rest is history. The price was right and I even bought 2 hulls from him that I rigged. In the beginning you could buy a blank hull made by Cheetah of California not bad hulls, just had to be rigged right. Around 1977 he made a mold off the Magnum, and started building the compleat boat [Lancer Marine]. The biggest problem was how they were rigged, [one size bolt fits all,, just add washers] and the parts used. The company name change many times and I had to step away. The MARIAH was a good hull but it did also have wood problems. Years later when his son toolk over I heard way to much, The sons wife Maria had been cutting my hair for about 20 years. You sure can hear alot when getting your hair cut. Jim had a good idea but with success somtimes you change.

cutwater
09-29-2008, 10:58 AM
Nice looking boats. I am guessing you can't get Sternpower parts anymore - correct? You probably already know about this 29'9" Magnum race boat for sale. He wants $15,000 but it comes with quite a few parts. Bill

What's the story on this boat? Very nice vintage look. Was the 29'9" a production hull or only made for racing?

Conquistador_del_mar
09-29-2008, 11:22 AM
Areo marine, Lancer marine, Predator, and yes Awesome, and more!! were boat companies here in Michigan,, by the same guy Jim Clem. The 27' vee bottom's were a copy made off the Magnum sport [Double Vision] . Most of the 24'&27' vee bottom boats Jim built were single engine with STERNPOWER IO's. The Stern Power drive's were a updated version of the old Dana drive found on house boats in the late 60's. The drives are quite strong and the trans is a Velvet Drive72c by B W.
I believe they are still made, and go by Stern Powr BX series now.
The glass work in the boats was not that bad , and if you rigged it youself you had a Magnum copy for half the price. The decks were the same only difference no skid were the wood insert was, also they did not have the chrome intake vents on the side,, just holes or screens. But I must say it still wasnt a Magnum, I had both. I rigged the MARIAH with the owner and it turned out very nice. The [DANGEROUS , PREDATOR] also was a Aero and one of the few that had a good racing career, it also raced as Mr Zip.

Thanks for the information. I didn't spend much time looking, but I could not find much information about Stern Powr drives (Power is spelled with no e). Here is their website with almost no information. Bill
http://www.sternpowr.com/index.html

Conquistador_del_mar
09-29-2008, 11:29 AM
What's the story on this boat? Very nice vintage look. Was the 29'9" a production hull or only made for racing?

It was made for racing. It has some beefy structural components and needs to be restored. I believe most of the parts are there. Bill

Conquistador_del_mar
09-29-2008, 11:34 AM
Here are a few pictures I took yesterday afternoon - yep, it will need some serious TLC! Bill

cutwater
09-29-2008, 05:48 PM
About once a year a boat like the Magnum 29'9" comes around... And I always sit here trying to convince myself that it DOES NOT need a loving home, while also reminding myself that this would not be the best move for me financially...

Plus, how do you get a 30' boat to Tennessee when you don't even own a tow vehicle at the present time? :boat: Why do I torment myself like this? :wink:

superhatz
09-29-2008, 06:53 PM
About once a year a boat like the Magnum 29'9" comes around... And I always sit here trying to convince myself that it DOES NOT need a loving home, while also reminding myself that this would not be the best move for me financially...

Plus, how do you get a 30' boat to Tennessee when you don't even own a tow vehicle at the present time? :boat: Why do I torment myself like this? :wink:

Yeah but you'd be the envy of all.....:)

Seriously....buy the boat.

Conquistador_del_mar
09-29-2008, 07:36 PM
About once a year a boat like the Magnum 29'9" comes around... And I always sit here trying to convince myself that it DOES NOT need a loving home, while also reminding myself that this would not be the best move for me financially...

Plus, how do you get a 30' boat to Tennessee when you don't even own a tow vehicle at the present time? :boat: Why do I torment myself like this? :wink:

You could always rent a good size truck for a weekend. You are right - boats like this don't become available very often. I seriously thought about buying it, but I had this other project in mind. Bill

zelatore
09-29-2008, 07:51 PM
Plus, how do you get a 30' boat to Tennessee when you don't even own a tow vehicle at the present time? :boat:

Are you telling me nobody on this board would volunteer some truck time to pick up a boat for you in exchange for a little gas money?

Come on, there are plenty of enablers here! Surely somebody would help you dive into debt!

Conquistador_del_mar
09-29-2008, 08:07 PM
I'm excited Bill......is that original gel?

Aaron,
After checking it out today, the original gelcoat was definitely a light green. I looked for any numbers under the console, etc. but I could not find any. Is there any chance the numbers were hidden any other place like under the rubrail or on one of the stringers? It would be great to find out the real hull number since I will have to get a title for it. Bill

superhatz
09-29-2008, 08:58 PM
Aaron,
After checking it out today, the original gelcoat was definitely a light green. I looked for any numbers under the console, etc. but I could not find any. Is there any chance the numbers were hidden any other place like under the rubrail or on one of the stringers? It would be great to find out the real hull number since I will have to get a title for it. Bill

It might be written on the bulkhead under the dash......might have been where someone put the 6x9 speaker....:(

Otherwise, peel the black or dark gray stuff back under the dash......

Conquistador_del_mar
09-29-2008, 09:11 PM
It might be written on the bulkhead under the dash......might have been where someone put the 6x9 speaker....:(

Otherwise, peel the black or dark gray stuff back under the dash......

I will look maybe later tonight - thanks. Does the light green color sound familiar? I was a little surprised to see that color, but it might be the same color as the Magnum that you posted - the one sitting still? By the way, I was relatively pleased with the structure that I checked out this afternoon. I will have some glass work to do, but most of the components seem solid. For whatever reason, the guys who were contracted to replace the transom did not extend the stringers back to it when they replaced the transom. They also did not seal the bilge drain hole or center engine stringer when they cut it down.

superhatz
09-29-2008, 09:30 PM
I will look maybe later tonight - thanks. Does the light green color sound familiar? I was a little surprised to see that color, but it might be the same color as the Magnum that you posted - the one sitting still? By the way, I was relatively pleased with the structure that I checked out this afternoon. I will have some glass work to do, but most of the components seem solid. For whatever reason, the guys who were contracted to replace the transom did not extend the stringers back to it when they replaced the transom. They also did not seal the bilge drain hole or center engine stringer when they cut it down.

Do you know if it was a TRS boat?.....they started in '74.

Any chance the hull number is still stamped in the transom, just covered with paint?.......

Conquistador_del_mar
09-29-2008, 09:39 PM
Do you know if it was a TRS boat?.....they started in '74.

Any chance the hull number is still stamped in the transom, just covered with paint?.......

Aaron, I thought transom numbering started later than around 1973 (which is supposed to be the year of this boat). The guys who built the new transom gelcoated it over with white after filling the previous holes - supposedly Volvo holes from what the seller told me. He actually told me that the holes were fairly large so we were guessing Volvo Penta. Bill

BUIZILLA
09-29-2008, 09:41 PM
72 was first year of transom ID

superhatz
09-29-2008, 09:57 PM
Judging by the dash and the Volvos....I'd guess 1973.

You hull number might be in the mid 200s....

smidgen too
09-29-2008, 11:15 PM
I will look maybe later tonight - thanks. Does the light green color sound familiar? I was a little surprised to see that color, but it might be the same color as the Magnum that you posted - the one sitting still? By the way, I was relatively pleased with the structure that I checked out this afternoon. I will have some glass work to do, but most of the components seem solid. For whatever reason, the guys who were contracted to replace the transom did not extend the stringers back to it when they replaced the transom. They also did not seal the bilge drain hole or center engine stringer when they cut it down.
I wonder if its this one, she left the Detroit area some time ago.

superhatz
09-29-2008, 11:50 PM
I wonder if its this one, she left the Detroit area some time ago.

I was thinking the same thing Mark.....:wink:

Conquistador_del_mar
09-30-2008, 12:18 AM
I wonder if its this one, she left the Detroit area some time ago.

That is the color I am seeing under the maroon paint. In the bow, I found 3 equal length lifeline poles like the Green Hornet has in your picture. If that is at all an unusual lifeline and color combination, then it might very well be the boat. I can't believe you guys sometimes! Where do you come up with all the pictures? I can sand the sides a little to see past the paint, but those graphics were probably sanded off for the repaint. Bill

Conquistador_del_mar
09-30-2008, 12:24 AM
72 was first year of transom ID

Thanks - I thought it was a little later. In that case, I should be able to sand off the gelcoat on the right transom upper area to see the numbers that would have been filled in by the gelcoat with any luck - :rolleyes:. Thanks again, Bill

Conquistador_del_mar
09-30-2008, 12:31 AM
Do you know if it was a TRS boat?.....they started in '74.

Any chance the hull number is still stamped in the transom, just covered with paint?.......

Aaron,
I will check the transom tomorrow for the numbers which will hopefully show below the white gelcoat. Keeping my fingers crossed - lol. Bill

superhatz
09-30-2008, 12:41 AM
:).....I stole most of my pictures from Mark!....but I can see he's still holding out.......:worthy:

Bill,

The lifeline was pretty standard on all Sports but I wouldn't be surprised to see some other evidence.

Conquistador_del_mar
09-30-2008, 12:45 AM
:).....I stole most of my pictures from Mark!....but I can see he's still holding out.......:worthy:

Bill,

The lifeline was pretty standard on all Sports but I wouldn't be surprised to see some other evidence.

All the fittings that I saw in Mark's picture are correct. Maybe the number will show itself tomorrow. If it weren't so late, I would drive back out there tonight and sand it - I am anxious to know.

superhatz
09-30-2008, 12:51 AM
All the fittings that I saw in Mark's picture are correct. Maybe the number will show itself tomorrow. If it weren't so late, I would drive back out there tonight and sand it - I am anxious to know.

Take the Cobra.....you'll be back before 2:00.......:convertib:

Conquistador_del_mar
09-30-2008, 12:56 AM
Take the Cobra.....you'll be back before 2:00.......:convertib:

LOL - yep, but I can't risk hitting a deer like my best friend from college on Saturday night on his Harley in South Bend , Indiana. He luckily only got a broken tibia out of the hit and didn't even drop the Harley!! His wife only sprained her ankle. I digress.

smidgen too
09-30-2008, 01:08 AM
:).....I stole most of my pictures from Mark!....but I can see he's still holding out.......:worthy:

Bill,

The lifeline was pretty standard on all Sports but I wouldn't be surprised to see some other evidence.
Aaron I still have a few more pic's, but not many!!! :biggrin.:

superhatz
09-30-2008, 01:59 AM
LOL - yep, but I can't risk hitting a deer like my best friend from college on Saturday night on his Harley in South Bend , Indiana. He luckily only got a broken tibia out of the hit and didn't even drop the Harley!! His wife only sprained her ankle. I digress.

Wow!....glad to hear your buddy is "okay"......I worry about deer on my bike too.

superhatz
09-30-2008, 02:00 AM
Aaron I still have a few more pic's, but not many!!! :biggrin.:

I bet Jeff told you to....he's got it out for me!!.....:nilly:

Conquistador_del_mar
09-30-2008, 01:06 PM
Is it this one?

Aaron,
Mike just sent me the pictures of the Aero here at a local marina. You can be the judge, but it sure has a lot of similarities. Bill

superhatz
09-30-2008, 01:45 PM
Yep....that's the one. The guy used to call it a Magnum but I didn't have the heart to tell him......

smidgen too
09-30-2008, 03:59 PM
Aaron,
Mike just sent me the pictures of the Aero here at a local marina. You can be the judge, but it sure has a lot of similarities. Bill
The navigation lights and vents give it away as a Lancer or Aero. I watched the mold being made off the Magnum, the dash & deck wood insert & quality were the only things not copied.

Conquistador_del_mar
09-30-2008, 07:50 PM
Thanks - I thought it was a little later. In that case, I should be able to sand off the gelcoat on the right transom upper area to see the numbers that would have been filled in by the gelcoat with any luck - :rolleyes:. Thanks again, Bill

I sanded on the starboard transom upper area, but it only had the green underlying gelcoat. Is there a chance the hull numbers would have been etched elsewhere on the transom?

superhatz
09-30-2008, 07:57 PM
I sanded on the starboard transom upper area, but it only had the green underlying gelcoat. Is there a chance the hull numbers would have been etched elsewhere on the transom?

Personally....I thought the hull numbers started in '74 but I'm not going to argue with old school dudes like Buzilla.....:biggrin.:

Maybe Mark will know.....?

Conquistador_del_mar
09-30-2008, 08:40 PM
Personally....I thought the hull numbers started in '74 but I'm not going to argue with old school dudes like Buzilla.....:biggrin.:

Maybe Mark will know.....?

Aaron,
What year is your boat, and does it have transom ID #s?

superhatz
09-30-2008, 09:17 PM
Mine's a '74 and it has the transom number "cast" in. MAG273010674

The number 301 is written under the dash somewhere too.

Conquistador_del_mar
09-30-2008, 11:45 PM
Mine's a '74 and it has the transom number "cast" in. MAG273010674

The number 301 is written under the dash somewhere too.

Is it inscribed on the starboard upper transom or somewhere else?

superhatz
09-30-2008, 11:52 PM
Is it inscribed on the starboard upper transom or somewhere else?

Yes....upper starboard.....:)

smidgen too
09-30-2008, 11:52 PM
Personally....I thought the hull numbers started in '74 but I'm not going to argue with old school dudes like Buzilla.....:biggrin.:

Maybe Mark will know.....?
I thought late 1972 early 73, I will give ECH a call.

Conquistador_del_mar
10-01-2008, 12:17 AM
Yes....upper starboard.....:)

I guess I will sand a little more tomorrow to reveal some more area, but if it were in the new typical place it would already have shown. I seem to remember some old hull number in the dead center upper portion of the transom on some boat that I restored years ago - possibility? I might be panning for gold in a fish tank - :wink:

Morgan's Cloud
10-01-2008, 06:56 AM
If it's any help, mine is MAG250080273 ... Feb 1973 supposedly ..

And it's on the stbd transom just under the ridge on the hull/deck joint ..

Conquistador_del_mar
10-01-2008, 10:10 AM
If it's any help, mine is MAG250080273 ... Feb 1973 supposedly ..

And it's on the stbd transom just under the ridge on the hull/deck joint ..

Thanks. That also tells me that the numbers were installed on Magnums at least by February 1973. If the one I just bought is actually a 1973, there should be some numbers. Bill

Conquistador_del_mar
10-01-2008, 07:58 PM
Thanks. That also tells me that the numbers were installed on Magnums at least by February 1973. If the one I just bought is actually a 1973, there should be some numbers. Bill

I sanded some more today on the new gelcoat on the transom, but there do not appear to be any numbers back there - :nilly:

Conquistador_del_mar
10-01-2008, 09:34 PM
72 was first year of transom ID

Here is a link to the HINs on boats. Yep, I should have been able to find some numbers if mine is a 1973, but it might have been actually made before November 1, 1972 and still been a 1973 model - right? Bill

http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/hin.html

superhatz
10-01-2008, 10:28 PM
Here is a link to the HINs on boats. Yep, I should have been able to find some numbers if mine is a 1973, but it might have been actually made before November 1, 1972 and still been a 1973 model - right? Bill

http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/hin.html

With Magnum, anything is possible....:)

Late '72 or early '73 makes sense with that dash, Volvos and that color.

I'll try and take a pic of my hull # written under the dash.

BUIZILLA
10-02-2008, 06:51 AM
I had to have the Cary inspected by Fla LEO when I retitled it because the hull ID # was typed wrong on the title from day one, the original 35 year owner never caught the mistake because he never looked at the title for over 35 years... I caught it day one on my purchase..

I digress..

The LEO Officer brought with him the FLA State Statute and US Fed Reg's and USCG books to confirm ID and manufacturer status. They don't take anybody's word for anything, they have personal inspections, or your in trouble, no negotiatians whatsoever. It (the statute) clearly stated that the hull ID nomenclature started with the '72 model year, however any hulls built/delivered in late '71 as a '72 titled vessel MUST have the ID number impregnated/molded/affixed in the gell or hull in the rear stb location, on the hull, not the deck, immediately below the rubrail. The only variance on this would be a USCG documented/registered vessel from day 1, whereas the documented number must be affixed to a secured panel amidships in prominant view. There was no start/stop year limit on this procedure.

If there is nothing there on this Magnum, and it was represented and sold and possibly titled as a '73, then someone has some splainin' to do... :outtahere:

Conquistador_del_mar
10-02-2008, 11:24 AM
I had to have the Cary inspected by Fla LEO when I retitled it because the hull ID # was typed wrong on the title from day one, the original 35 year owner never caught the mistake because he never looked at the title for over 35 years... I caught it day one on my purchase..

I digress..

The LEO Officer brought with him the FLA State Statute and US Fed Reg's and USCG books to confirm ID and manufacturer status. They don't take anybody's word for anything, they have personal inspections, or your in trouble, no negotiatians whatsoever. It (the statute) clearly stated that the hull ID nomenclature started with the '72 model year, however any hulls built/delivered in late '71 as a '72 titled vessel MUST have the ID number impregnated/molded/affixed in the gell or hull in the rear stb location, on the hull, not the deck, immediately below the rubrail. The only variance on this would be a USCG documented/registered vessel from day 1, whereas the documented number must be affixed to a secured panel amidships in prominant view. There was no start/stop year limit on this procedure.

If there is nothing there on this Magnum, and it was represented and sold and possibly titled as a '73, then someone has some splainin' to do... :outtahere:

I have wondered how many clerical errors are made when titles are issued - especially when you consider the long series of letters and numbers in a vehicle title. I would not think your experience was all that uncommon.
I have had to deal with quite a few problems with title work over the years since I have dealt with older boats and vehicles - many of which were from out of state. The Magnum I just bought did not come with a title - only a bill of sale from the man. He bought it the same way a few years ago. I will be talking to the Texas Parks and Wildlife department soon to determine what is necessary to get this boat titled. Right now I am hoping to find the hull number since I am almost certain it would make titling much easier. What I don't want to have to do is title it as a home made boat or something as non descriptive. I won't be doing anything with the boat for a while, but I want to get the title work out of the way before I start work on the restoration. Thanks for the response. Bill

Conquistador_del_mar
10-02-2008, 07:44 PM
Here is a picture I took this afternoon of where I sanded on the new gelcoat that was applied when the new transom was constructed. Wouldn't the HINs be where I went through the gelcoat? Bill

superhatz
10-02-2008, 08:00 PM
Yep.....that's where mine are.

That color is cool......:)

Conquistador_del_mar
10-02-2008, 08:26 PM
Aaron,
I am a fan of dark green, but I am not much on light/medium green. I once ordered a 1977 24' Excalibur in dark green after seeing a Cigarette in Miami that really grabbed my attention. Lightning Boats liked it so much after they shot it that the president told me they made one or two more - lol. Here is a 1986 Jaguar XJ6 that I restored last year to its original Jaguar racing green as the color is called. It is my favorite color on Jaguars and other things - :rolleyes: Bill

Conquistador_del_mar
10-05-2008, 10:51 AM
I talked yesterday afternoon with High Life on the phone for a while. He told me that he has a friend who installed a single engine 502/415HP with a Bravo One in a Magnum 27 and got 61MPH out of it. Needless to say, that made my day since I was hoping for around 60+MPH using a Bravo III (counter rotating props) and a 500HP engine. Eventually, I might end up with more speed than I even figured. Bill

cutwater
10-05-2008, 03:36 PM
Okay someone tell me more about the Magnum 30 - What is missing? What drive/engine combo? How many of these made? What needs to be repaired structurally?

Thanks, I'm driving myself crazy over this one. Also, I'm wondering if he'd take any less than $15k.

fast fun 2
10-05-2008, 06:10 PM
Why a bravo 3? If you run in rough water you will regret it. Not to mention prop choice and the loss of 3-5 mph

BUIZILLA
10-05-2008, 06:14 PM
Why a bravo 3? If you run in rough water you will regret it. Not to mention prop choice and the loss of 3-5 mph i'm going to disagree with that.. :wink:

Conquistador_del_mar
10-06-2008, 01:07 AM
Okay someone tell me more about the Magnum 30 - What is missing? What drive/engine combo? How many of these made? What needs to be repaired structurally?

Thanks, I'm driving myself crazy over this one. Also, I'm wondering if he'd take any less than $15k.

It sounds like you need to talk to the seller who is a nice guy to talk with on the phone. If you want to call me at my work number, I can give you his information. My number is 903-786-6281. Bill


Why a bravo 3? If you run in rough water you will regret it. Not to mention prop choice and the loss of 3-5 mph

Why do you think it would cause problems in rough water any more than a single prop drive? It definitely has limited prop choices, but I have not heard that it causes a loss in speed. I like the fact that there is virtually no steering torque with the Bravo III and it is fairly tough. Can you elaborate on your reasons? Thanks, Bill

Morgan's Cloud
10-07-2008, 09:11 AM
Bill , that green is identical to what mine originally was .... Somehow I'm thinking that you might just want to try sanding a little to the west of the spot that you already have made .... No harm, seeing what work lays ahead of you eh ? :biggrin:

I'm a little cynical of the speed on that 27 with the 502/B3 as my 25 is correctly propped and it may see 60 on a good day .

Of course with a little searching one can find tons of discourse on the pros/cons of twin prop units.

If we're talking solely about the B1 vers the B3 of course the B1 will have a bit of a speed advantage , but how important is absolute all out top speed to the individual owner ? Plus , you can't rule out the handling advantages.
Remember also that Merc was going to introduce a 'performance line' of B3 props.

Again , as far as the generic statement ' Duoprops cost you speed ..' goes , has anyone seen the boat tests where identically powered , identical boats are run against one another .... ? The single prop Merc drive is slower than the Volvo SX ... And that's not even taking into account the new SX-A which more resembles the DP-X .

(Edit... sorry .. I've just noticed that you were referring to a B1/502 setup in the 27 earlier ...Yes .. that 61 sounds more believable now .... lol ..)

Conquistador_del_mar
10-07-2008, 11:08 AM
Bill , that green is identical to what mine originally was .... Somehow I'm thinking that you might just want to try sanding a little to the west of the spot that you already have made .... No harm, seeing what work lays ahead of you eh ? :biggrin:

I'm a little cynical of the speed on that 27 with the 502/B3 as my 25 is correctly propped and it may see 60 on a good day .

Of course with a little searching one can find tons of discourse on the pros/cons of twin prop units.

If we're talking solely about the B1 vers the B3 of course the B1 will have a bit of a speed advantage , but how important is absolute all out top speed to the individual owner ? Plus , you can't rule out the handling advantages.
Remember also that Merc was going to introduce a 'performance line' of B3 props.

Again , as far as the generic statement ' Duoprops cost you speed ..' goes , has anyone seen the boat tests where identically powered , identical boats are run against one another .... ? The single prop Merc drive is slower than the Volvo SX ... And that's not even taking into account the new SX-A which more resembles the DP-X .

Steve,
I will try sanding a little more. I really hope to find the hull number for quite a few reasons.
What engine, power, and drive does your 25' Magnum have? I wonder how the two boats compare in weight. For that matter, I would like to know the weight of the 27 without engines and drives - I already know it is heavy when I look at things like the 1/2" thick solid fiberglass deck. Although I recently bought a 475HP 383CID stroked SBC for a project like this, I am now thinking that I would probably be better off with a BBC which can more easily make the torque that I know this hull will need. I have a long way to go before powering it, but I like to think about it to give me a little more incentive. Thanks for the input, Bill

BUIZILLA
10-07-2008, 11:17 AM
the Squadron XII ran good with a single...

Morgan's Cloud
10-07-2008, 11:32 AM
Our 25 has the Mag 502 with the 2.0:1 drive ratio and swings a 26" cupped propset. With a lightish load it just about bumps on 5000 RPM .
The weights of these boats is always of interest. When ours was still gutted , and I mean gutted ... just the hull , deck and innerliner we weighed it and it registered 2646 lbs . Add a 1245 lb engine package , beautiful custom windscreen (not that huge upright OEM greenhouse) full upholstery ,all rigging, wiring and deck hardware including custom 15' one piece S/S bow rail , 2 x 27 series batteries , fuel tank , massive (very heavy) one peice engine hatch with electric lift , auto FE241 etc , I would say that we're pretty much at 5000 lb !
That's why I find it hard to believe the 27 with two small blocks weighs .. hmmm what is it now in the brochure .... 4800 lb ? ?
One thing for sure , you'll want all the cubes you can get in a single to move that thing.

Conquistador_del_mar
10-07-2008, 11:59 AM
Our 25 has the Mag 502 with the 2.0:1 drive ratio and swings a 26" cupped propset. With a lightish load it just about bumps on 5000 RPM .
The weights of these boats is always of interest. When ours was still gutted , and I mean gutted ... just the hull , deck and innerliner we weighed it and it registered 2646 lbs . Add a 1245 lb engine package , beautiful custom windscreen (not that huge upright OEM greenhouse) full upholstery ,all rigging, wiring and deck hardware including custom 15' one piece S/S bow rail , 2 x 27 series batteries , fuel tank , massive (very heavy) one peice engine hatch with electric lift , auto FE241 etc , I would say that we're pretty much at 5000 lb !
That's why I find it hard to believe the 27 with two small blocks weighs .. hmmm what is it now in the brochure .... 4800 lb ? ?
One thing for sure , you'll want all the cubes you can get in a single to move that thing.

Thanks for the info. The Bravo III that I recently bought is also the 2.0 ratio so it sounds like the 26" set of props would also be close for me if I can get to the 60MPH+ range (I know where I can buy a set). I recently heard that the 27 weighed in at 5600 with twins? - I might find a weigh scale near me to find the naked weight. I agree that I might have to come up with a larger engine. I originally was thinking about keeping the weight down with the SBC stroker. Maybe I will get a better feel from someone who has tried powering the 27 with a single before I get to that point. Bill

superhatz
10-07-2008, 03:31 PM
My 27 Sport with a steel triple axle trailer weighs a little over 7000lbs.

I don't know what the trailer weighs?.....any ideas?

Conquistador_del_mar
10-07-2008, 07:48 PM
Aaron,
Your trailer might surprise you on weight. It all depends on what channel was used. I have a heavy duty triple axle Competition trailer under my 23' Eliminator that I know weighs every bit of 1500lbs. Fortunately it is a C-channel frame with open channel crossmembers and a few boxed in square tubing members, so it does not rust from the inside out like so many of the local trailers I see around here with boxed square and rectangular channels that fill with water and start rusting from the inside. I have had 3 customers in the past couple years show me their trailers and asking my advice on repairing them. One guy spent $1800 having his rebuilt, but the others bought new trailers. I ramble with my thoughts - lol. I wanted to pass that along, though. Back on the subject, I wouldn't be surprised if your trailer weighed 2000lbs if it is fairly beefy with steel like it should be to support as heavy a boat as the Magnum. Bill

superhatz
10-07-2008, 08:03 PM
It is a C-channel...:)

smidgen too
10-07-2008, 08:49 PM
I talked yesterday afternoon with High Life on the phone for a while. He told me that he has a friend who installed a single engine 502/415HP with a Bravo One in a Magnum 27 and got 61MPH out of it. Needless to say, that made my day since I was hoping for around 60+MPH using a Bravo III (counter rotating props) and a 500HP engine. Eventually, I might end up with more speed than I even figured. Bill
This 1975 Chris Craft 8 metre in Stockholm Svea was rebuilt with a single 496 Ho merc they say it runs around 55. When this boat was new with twins 350cu 300 hp smallblocks with Volvo drives ran 55 mph.

superhatz
10-07-2008, 09:20 PM
There's a Swedish guy on the forum here that re-powered his 27 Sport with a single 496 HO I think?.....and I thought he said it would run about 56-58?

Boatnuts
10-08-2008, 07:26 AM
MorgansCloud - would love to see a pic of your 25 Magnum

Morgan's Cloud
10-08-2008, 07:56 AM
One day .. If I was only a bit more computer literate ... haha

A long time back MP posted a few that I sent to him but a while back I tried to locate them and couldn't .. they were here somewhere ... Maybe he has them stashed somewhere else in his own files and could pull one or two of them again ..

Conquistador_del_mar
10-08-2008, 10:06 AM
This 1975 Chris Craft 8 metre in Stockholm Svea was rebuilt with a single 496 Ho merc they say it runs around 55. When this boat was new with twins 350cu 300 hp smallblocks with Volvo drives ran 55 mph.

That is interesting and provocative. Presuming the 8 meter Chris Craft is the 26' (260 model I think it was called) and started with twin 300HPs or 600HP total and now runs the exact same top speed with a single 425HP makes me think that is a good comparison for trying to figure original twins vs modern single in these size older boats. The only question I would have is this. Do the new engines rate the HP differently than the older HP ratings? If the older engines and the new ones are rated the same at the crackshaft, then this might be the start of trying to calculate a formula for switching from older twins to a modern single in terms of expected speeds. Between dropping considerable engine and drive weight in the comparison and having one less drive pushing through the water, this is not at all amazing. However, trying to calculate just how much power it would take to obtain certain speeds with the single would be a little more complicated. Thanks for the input, Bill

Conquistador_del_mar
10-08-2008, 10:14 AM
One day .. If I was only a bit more computer literate ... haha

A long time back MP posted a few that I sent to him but a while back I tried to locate them and couldn't .. they were here somewhere ... Maybe he has them stashed somewhere else in his own files and could pull one or two of them again ..

Steve,
I would also like to see some pictures of your Magnum. You might read this thread and see if you can do it yourself. If you still need help, just send me a PM. I think a lot of pictures were lost recently when Scot transferred the site over to a new server. Bill

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=34692&highlight=posting+pictures

Conquistador_del_mar
10-08-2008, 10:17 AM
There's a Swedish guy on the forum here that re-powered his 27 Sport with a single 496 HO I think?.....and I thought he said it would run about 56-58?

That would be along the lines of what High Life told me. The guy he knows supposedly goes 61MPH with a 415HP package and the one you are talking about with 425HP is almost reaching the same speed - possibly a difference in GPS vs conventional speedo or propping. Bill

Conquistador_del_mar
10-08-2008, 10:51 AM
My boat repair friend from here just sent me this listing. I guess I now know what it takes to get to 80MPH in a 27 Magnum single. Would this be originally set up with twins or a race version single since it was raced under the name Double Vision? Check out the diamond plate in the engine compartment. Bill

http://detroit.craigslist.org/boa/841507688.html

smidgen too
10-08-2008, 10:51 AM
Here is the original Chris Craft info.

Conquistador_del_mar
10-08-2008, 10:59 AM
Here is the original Chris Craft info.

I don't remember ever having seen one of them. I like the layout and look. Thanks

superhatz
10-08-2008, 12:11 PM
My boat repair friend from here just sent me this listing. I guess I now know what it takes to get to 80MPH in a 27 Magnum single. Would this be originally set up with twins or a race version single since it was raced under the name Double Vision? Check out the diamond plate in the engine compartment. Bill

http://detroit.craigslist.org/boa/841507688.html

That's one of the few single engine Sports Magnum built......Mark knows more about it....

I think it had a single 475 hp Merc with a Speedmaster.

cutwater
10-08-2008, 12:19 PM
Check out the diamond plate in the engine compartment. Bill

http://detroit.craigslist.org/boa/841507688.html

I'm betting there are twin gas tanks underneath the plating?

A la:

superhatz
10-08-2008, 12:58 PM
I'm betting there are twin gas tanks underneath the plating?

A la:

Yes sir....:)

Here's a shot of it back in the day....

smidgen too
10-08-2008, 01:25 PM
That's one of the few single engine Sports Magnum built......Mark knows more about it....

I think it had a single 475 hp Merc with a Speedmaster.

That Mag was one of two that raced from Lake St Clair, to race against boats like the big Magnum Thumper Too. They came with single 482cu merc with speed III drives. She raced originally as Screaming Yellow Zonker Than Double Vision. You are right the gas tanks are under the alum plates in the rear of this Mag. The other single Mag [288-Broad Jumper] I helped my friend convert to twins around 1983, Why ???????? Where that one is today ???

superhatz
10-08-2008, 01:33 PM
The other singles I was thinking about Mark were some of the original Aronow race boats......some are the same boat, but I'm not sure which?

I think they're all the same boat.....?

Conquistador_del_mar
10-08-2008, 07:54 PM
I'm betting there are twin gas tanks underneath the plating?

A la:

John,
Here are some better shots the seller sent to me today. Definitely the fuel tanks back in the engine compartment. Notice the trim tabs mounted like has been discussed - parallel to the water surface instead of along the transom bottom. Did you talk to Bud? If you want a boat like this, this is a deal in my book. Please say you want to go for this boat so I won't - lol. Bud's or this one - take your choice. The seller of this one said he had a prospective buyer from New Zealand, but it is still open right now.


That Mag was one of two that raced from Lake St Clair, to race against boats like the big Magnum Thumper Too. They came with single 482cu merc with speed III drives. She raced originally as Screaming Yellow Zonker Than Double Vision. You are right the gas tanks are under the alum plates in the rear of this Mag. The other single Mag [288-Broad Jumper] I helped my friend convert to twins around 1983, Why ???????? Where that one is today ???

So why did you convert to twins? I guess you are saying that you don't know where it is today or do you actually own it? Thanks for the info - it sounds like a great boat with history. Bill


The other singles I was thinking about Mark were some of the original Aronow race boats......some are the same boat, but I'm not sure which?

I think they're all the same boat.....?

Aaron, what do you think of this one? Ready to run and restored, it sure sounds like a deal to me. Your thoughts. Bill

cutwater
10-08-2008, 08:53 PM
John,Did you talk to Bud? If you want a boat like this, this is a deal in my book. Please say you want to go for this boat so I won't - lol. Bud's or this one - take your choice.

Yeah I talked to Bud, I am seriously considering it. My major concern right now is that it's about 20 miles north of Chicago, and I have no tow vehicle!! I would have to find someone who could store it for me until they plan on driving through the southeast and could trailer it down here (590 miles!!!). I don't mind reimbursing someone for all gas & mileage, but I couldn't pay $2500 to have it professionally shipped.

There are other concerns, but I have been too overwhelmed at work this week to even think about it much. I'll keep you updated.

Conquistador_del_mar
10-08-2008, 09:30 PM
Yeah I talked to Bud, I am seriously considering it. My major concern right now is that it's about 20 miles north of Chicago, and I have no tow vehicle!! I would have to find someone who could store it for me until they plan on driving through the southeast and could trailer it down here (590 miles!!!). I don't mind reimbursing someone for all gas & mileage, but I couldn't pay $2500 to have it professionally shipped.

There are other concerns, but I have been too overwhelmed at work this week to even think about it much. I'll keep you updated.

After talking to some friends, the going rate for delivering trailerable boats seems to be $1.50/mile around here, so you would be talking less than $1000 at that rate. You might ask Bud if he would deliver it or knows anyone who would for a good price. Just a thought.

smidgen too
10-08-2008, 10:46 PM
I know Mike who has the white Mag, and I have seen it,, it is nice. He put alot of work in her and it shows it, and I knew the other owner who raced it as Double Vision. Bob put a cabin liner in her from a Cherokee boat that also was a Mag copy made here in Michigan. I would buy it if I didnt have my 29' Mirage or my 24' Cobra.
My friend Dean wanted a twin eng Mag like the one I had, so we made one. He bought it at a right price so it wasn't a hard to do. Here are a few pic's of the [288] before and after. I know the [288 Magnum Force] had 4 gas tanks. Two forward,, two aft.

Morgan's Cloud
10-09-2008, 06:34 AM
Err ,
Let's see if this works Bill .....
One more to come later if it does ....
Steve

Morgan's Cloud
10-09-2008, 07:53 AM
... There you are .... Boating in the triangle ! :biggrin:

Conquistador_del_mar
10-09-2008, 10:02 AM
Err ,
Let's see if this works Bill .....
One more to come later if it does ....
Steve

Steve, very nice looking 25! What is your floor - gelcoat or paint? It just hit me this morning about your comment on your custom windshield not being a greenhouse - too funny! Who did you find to custom build it? Who did the restoration on your Magnum? What lakes do you boat? So many questions. Bill

Conquistador_del_mar
10-09-2008, 10:22 AM
I know Mike who has the white Mag, and I have seen it,, it is nice. He put alot of work in her and it shows it, and I knew the other owner who raced it as Double Vision. Bob put a cabin liner in her from a Cherokee boat that also was a Mag copy made here in Michigan. I would buy it if I didnt have my 29' Mirage or my 24' Cobra.
My friend Dean wanted a twin eng Mag like the one I had, so we made one. He bought it at a right price so it wasn't a hard to do. Here are a few pic's of the [288] before and after. I know the [288 Magnum Force] had 4 gas tanks. Two forward,, two aft.

Apparently, the race version single engine Magnum 27s were rigged with the 4 fuel tanks since I have heard of at least 3 rigged that way. It is hard to tell though if they were different boats since the names changed fairly frequently. You must have a record of the race Magnums to be able to come up with so much information on them as well as pictures of so many. My logic would be that if you used a 4 tank Magnum for pleasure, you would want the fuel in the front tanks to take some load off the already heavy aft end and make the bow stay down for a better ride - correct? I can see installing twins in an ocean going boat for the security of getting back if one engine package died. What engine/drive packages did you install in Dean's race Magnum? Thanks again.

Boatnuts
10-09-2008, 10:27 AM
Yours would have been originally a twin engine like mine. Mine never had the bow rail and I chopped the windshield. In terms of speed for the power you have, did you check your bottom on the strake line? Mine had a built in hook to help get the nose down with the heavy twin V-8's in the rear. I had my bottom blue printed to correct this a year after converting to the single and it made a huge difference. When the boat is light on fuel and equipment, propped right and there is an 18" chop, it can climb over the 70 mark. Normal set up and equipment with a 4 blade and it crawls to the mid 60's.

Morgan's Cloud
10-09-2008, 11:10 AM
Yours would have been originally a twin engine like mine. Mine never had the bow rail and I chopped the windshield. In terms of speed for the power you have, did you check your bottom on the strake line? Mine had a built in hook to help get the nose down with the heavy twin V-8's in the rear. I had my bottom blue printed to correct this a year after converting to the single and it made a huge difference. When the boat is light on fuel and equipment, propped right and there is an 18" chop, it can climb over the 70 mark. Normal set up and equipment with a 4 blade and it crawls to the mid 60's.
Mine was set up originally with the single 350GM marinized by Chris Craft and a Volvo 270 (no trim).
It arrived here in the Early spring of 1973 and was bought in by a guy with the same family name as mine but no relative. His daughter was in my class at school and his son was in my brother's class.
It originally had the 'jump seat' setup over the engine .. you know .. the one that you can half walk around and has a little seat up against the transom on either side . ... As you can see , we changed all of that . (Along with a few other things .:biggrin:.)
Seeing that the boat was upside down when we got it , we did a real number on the bottom making sure it was ok ... No .. there was'nt any hooks in the bottom , but there was a deflection on either side where there shouldn't have been , confirmed by Magnum .. probably incorrect bunking for a long time .

Conquistador_del_mar
10-09-2008, 11:21 AM
Mine was set up originally with the single 350GM marinized by Chris Craft and a Volvo 270 (no trim).
It arrived here in the Early spring of 1973 ...

My 1971 Donzi 18' 2+3 that I am presently restoring had the same engine/drive package. The engine was an LT1 with Corvette flags on the valve covers and was a 350CID/350HP with mechanical lifters. It lasted for around 1600+ hours of hard use! Was your engine the same? Bill

Morgan's Cloud
10-09-2008, 11:31 AM
Steve, very nice looking 25! What is your floor - gelcoat or paint? It just hit me this morning about your comment on your custom windshield not being a greenhouse - too funny! Who did you find to custom build it? Who did the restoration on your Magnum? What lakes do you boat? So many questions. Bill



Thanks for the compliment Bill , this was a solid 2 year restoration and in the end , most folks seem to think it came out OK !

When I found it , it was essentially one step away from the dump ... It was gutted but very fortunately had the original deck hatch , gas tank/floor hatch and console .... NOTHING else ... nothing !

The entire boat has been Awlgripped ... including the non skid on the cockpit floor .. The cabin gelcoat just needed a wax up ...

If you ever want to have your nerves tested , design a windscreen for a boat and have it built off site somewhere else .. pay about 5G for it and then hope it fits ! :eek:
Magnum warned us that there is a huge danger in having it done this way but we had no other choice.

A friend who I had spoken to some years before about new glass work he had had done on his Hatteras did the design layout ... VERY precise work you have to go over numerous times before pressing the print button , I can assure you. We utilised some really high tech materials too ... Masking tape , twine and a bunch of different length sticks ! ! lol

We utilised a company in Pa. that does custom windscreen and other glass work for boats. When it was done , it was sea freighted back to us ..
They were very good to work with also .

How I wish I was on some sweet fresh water lake somewhere ....
I know my 'where you are' is a bit cryptic , but I'm out in the middle of the Atlantic .... Bermuda ~

Oh , I pretty much did the resto myself ...... Proving many things my father used to say about me completely untrue :biggrin.:

Steve

Morgan's Cloud
10-09-2008, 11:35 AM
My 1971 Donzi 18' 2+3 that I am presently restoring had the same engine/drive package. The engine was an LT1 with Corvette flags on the valve covers and was a 350CID/350HP with mechanical lifters. It lasted for around 1600+ hours of hard use! Was your engine the same? Bill


Bear in mind Bill , I never owned this boat from new and it was gutted and ready for the dump when I found it.

I do know that at the time it was the 2nd largest SINGLE engine option available for this boat. It was rated at 310 HP back then .

The original owner only ever had one dislike about this boat , and that was how it had a tendency to like blowing up outdrives .... I think that the 270 wasn't too fond of the HP to weight ratio on this setup ....

smidgen too
10-10-2008, 12:56 AM
Apparently, the race version single engine Magnum 27s were rigged with the 4 fuel tanks since I have heard of at least 3 rigged that way. It is hard to tell though if they were different boats since the names changed fairly frequently. You must have a record of the race Magnums to be able to come up with so much information on them as well as pictures of so many. My logic would be that if you used a 4 tank Magnum for pleasure, you would want the fuel in the front tanks to take some load off the already heavy aft end and make the bow stay down for a better ride - correct? I can see installing twins in an ocean going boat for the security of getting back if one engine package died. What engine/drive packages did you install in Dean's race Magnum? Thanks again.
I bought my first boat a 16' Donzi in 1972, so I had a real interest in offshore boats back then. On lake St Clair back in 1972 Emerald City Harbor was a Magnum dealer and I would hang around there and talk to Magnum racers like Ken Black, Wally Harper, Jack Mathes. Over the years I have become friends with the Mathes family who own Emerald City. When ever I needed info they would tell what I needed. Most of the pic's that I have posted here & on OSO are from the Mathes family collection.
The 2 single eng Mag's [Zonker & Broad Jumper] came with 4 fuel tanks. On my Twin eng Magnum [a race boat from day one] it also had 4 tanks, with the rear ones under the cockpit floor. I would always use the rears, & leave the bow tanks empty for better balance. In a long race 80+ miles I would run the bow tanks first. From what I have been told thats how they ran the singles too.
Dean traded the speed III for two complete Volvo speed master E drives assembles. Then we powered her with two 402 big block chevys [60 over 396] at around 420hp. This Mag would run 70mph and never broke a drive. Around 1986 Dean sold her to the Baker boys from Port Huron Mi. They turned her back into a single with one big 454 Chevy & Volvo speed master drive, she ran about 62mph. The Bakers raced her in APBA A class for two years, and I believe they did not have drive issues. I lost track of this Mag around 1995, today ???? The pic I'm posting is my Mag that I wish I never sold.

Conquistador_del_mar
10-10-2008, 01:06 AM
Thanks for the compliment Bill , this was a solid 2 year restoration and in the end , most folks seem to think it came out OK !

When I found it , it was essentially one step away from the dump ... It was gutted but very fortunately had the original deck hatch , gas tank/floor hatch and console .... NOTHING else ... nothing !

The entire boat has been Awlgripped ... including the non skid on the cockpit floor .. The cabin gelcoat just needed a wax up ...

If you ever want to have your nerves tested , design a windscreen for a boat and have it built off site somewhere else .. pay about 5G for it and then hope it fits ! :eek:
Magnum warned us that there is a huge danger in having it done this way but we had no other choice.

A friend who I had spoken to some years before about new glass work he had had done on his Hatteras did the design layout ... VERY precise work you have to go over numerous times before pressing the print button , I can assure you. We utilised some really high tech materials too ... Masking tape , twine and a bunch of different length sticks ! ! lol

We utilised a company in Pa. that does custom windscreen and other glass work for boats. When it was done , it was sea freighted back to us ..
They were very good to work with also .

How I wish I was on some sweet fresh water lake somewhere ....
I know my 'where you are' is a bit cryptic , but I'm out in the middle of the Atlantic .... Bermuda ~

Oh , I pretty much did the resto myself ...... Proving many things my father used to say about me completely untrue :biggrin.:

Steve

Too funny about your father. My father was not much of a handy man as much as he would tell you he was - lol. All I can say is that it turned out wonderful by the pictures. I can certainly see being on edge as you awaited the windshield - 5K is a lot of green! There is no feeling like driving an older boat that you completely restored. Whenever I first take one out and all the bugs are worked out, it is fun to cruise along thinking about all the work that went into it. I'm sure you got those thoughts with yours.


Bear in mind Bill , I never owned this boat from new and it was gutted and ready for the dump when I found it.

I do know that at the time it was the 2nd largest SINGLE engine option available for this boat. It was rated at 310 HP back then .

The original owner only ever had one dislike about this boat , and that was how it had a tendency to like blowing up outdrives .... I think that the 270 wasn't too fond of the HP to weight ratio on this setup ....

I was thinking that it was probably the 310HP - that is the package a friend had in his 1973 Chris Craft XK19. As heavy as your boat is, I don't guess it is surprising that the incredible load the outdrive had to endure took its toll. Volvo Penta 270s are normally very reliable, but they also are usually on much lighter boats or set up with twins on the heavier boats. I guess it was asking a lot on your hull. Bill

Conquistador_del_mar
10-10-2008, 01:20 AM
I bought my first boat a 16' Donzi in 1972, so I had a real interest in offshore boats back then. On lake St Clair back in 1972 Emerald City Harbor was a Magnum dealer and I would hang around there and talk to Magnum racers like Ken Black, Wally Harper, Jack Mathes. Over the years I have become friends with the Mathes family who own Emerald City. When ever I needed info they would tell what I needed. Most of the pic's that I have posted here & on OSO are from the Mathes family collection.
The 2 single eng Mag's [Zonker & Broad Jumper] came with 4 fuel tanks. On my Twin eng Magnum [a race boat from day one] it also had 4 tanks, with the rear ones under the cockpit floor. I would always use the rears, & leave the bow tanks empty for better balance. In a long race 80+ miles I would run the bow tanks first. From what I have been told thats how they ran the singles too.
Dean traded the speed III for two complete Volvo speed master E drives assembles. Then we powered her with two 402 big block chevys [60 over 396] at around 420hp. This Mag would run 70mph and never broke a drive. Around 1986 Dean sold her to the Baker boys from Port Huron Mi. They turned her back into a single with one big 454 Chevy & Volvo speed master drive, she ran about 62mph. The Bakers raced her in APBA A class for two years, and I believe they did not have drive issues. I lost track of this Mag around 1995, today ???? The pic I'm posting is my Mag that I wish I never sold.

No wonder you know so much about them. The speedmaster E drive must have great endurance until over 450HP or so. After turning my good friend on to them, he would break them with his 600HP engine in the Eliminator that I now own, but he would get at least 20 hours running time on them - sometimes more. They increased his speed doing nothing else from 76MPH to 92MPH!! What a great looking race Magnum picture - which of the 3 is you? I guess we have all sold things that we wish we still had - I have. Thanks, Bill

Morgan's Cloud
10-10-2008, 07:09 AM
Small world huh Bill ? My brother had a CC XK19 for a few years too . I helped him do a partial resto on that also , although it was more of a cosmetic one .
It too had the 'Corvette' 350 in it with those decals and a 270 drive.
The engine had some strange untraceable problem and he eventually repowered with a new 300hp 350 ... Funny thing , it still wasn't as quick as my St Tropez with a (maybe) 225hp 351 ...
He sold it when we finished the Mag project. It's still kicking around though.
I always tell people (at least those who are interested) that one of the interesting things that happens after a complete resto/rebuild on an old boat is the special relationship that the owner has with his now 'new' toy.. *wipes tears out of eyes* :biggrin:
They have NO secrets to keep from you .. No matter where you look you know exactly what's behind everything and how it's been done.
(Unlike a brand new boat which is a complete mystery).
I have made one observation over the years though , no matter how extensive the restoration the only thing the general public seems to notice is the paint job :doh: :banghead: :rolleyes:
Steve

smidgen too
10-10-2008, 07:50 AM
No wonder you know so much about them. The speedmaster E drive must have great endurance until over 450HP or so. After turning my good friend on to them, he would break them with his 600HP engine in the Eliminator that I now own, but he would get at least 20 hours running time on them - sometimes more. They increased his speed doing nothing else from 76MPH to 92MPH!! What a great looking race Magnum picture - which of the 3 is you? I guess we have all sold things that we wish we still had - I have. Thanks, Bill
I'm in the center on the throttles, Dean on the port side navigating with Hank driving. the next year I change her to a center steer, with the throttles on the port side. This was the sister Mag to [Li'l Smidgen, and later called SPIRIT] that ran in APBA sport class. Back in the day many of the Detroit area racers had machine shops, Ken Black [Li'l Rhino], Pete Smith [Wolverine] that made heavy duty parts for the E drive, these drives had those parts.

Conquistador_del_mar
10-10-2008, 10:22 AM
Small world huh Bill ? My brother had a CC XK19 for a few years too . I helped him do a partial resto on that also , although it was more of a cosmetic one .
It too had the 'Corvette' 350 in it with those decals and a 270 drive.
The engine had some strange untraceable problem and he eventually repowered with a new 300hp 350 ... Funny thing , it still wasn't as quick as my St Tropez with a (maybe) 225hp 351 ...
He sold it when we finished the Mag project. It's still kicking around though.
I always tell people (at least those who are interested) that one of the interesting things that happens after a complete resto/rebuild on an old boat is the special relationship that the owner has with his now 'new' toy.. *wipes tears out of eyes* :biggrin:
They have NO secrets to keep from you .. No matter where you look you know exactly what's behind everything and how it's been done.
(Unlike a brand new boat which is a complete mystery).
I have made one observation over the years though , no matter how extensive the restoration the only thing the general public seems to notice is the paint job :doh: :banghead: :rolleyes:
Steve

I wonder how many Chris Craft marinized high performance SBC packages were made in the late 60s and early 70s mated to the Volvo drives. My 1971 is the only 18' Donzi I have ever seen with the engine scoop that it has from the factory. The hole had to be cut for the high rise intake manifold and carburetor setup of the LT1.
Yep, when you drive your restored boat, you know it all - even the little flaws that no one else ever notices - lol.
Speaking of the public only really noticing the paint job, we (me and a couple other restore guys) used to joke about selling used boats that we would fix up and sell for the profit - "float and shine" were the key attributes. Potential buyers were "prop knockers". Brings back memories. Bill

Conquistador_del_mar
10-10-2008, 10:29 AM
I'm in the center on the throttles, Dean on the port side navigating with Hank driving. the next year I change her to a center steer, with the throttles on the port side. This was the sister Mag to [Li'l Smidgen, and later called SPIRIT] that ran in APBA sport class. Back in the day many of the Detroit area racers had machine shops, Ken Black [Li'l Rhino], Pete Smith [Wolverine] that made heavy duty parts for the E drive, these drives had those parts.

Those must have been fun or at least exciting days! Any broken arms or elbows like I used to read? I wonder if the machine shops or any of those racers still have some heavy duty replacement E drive parts. Do you know anyone who can still work on them or has any parts? I have a few of them. Bill

smidgen too
10-10-2008, 09:24 PM
Those must have been fun or at least exciting days! Any broken arms or elbows like I used to read? I wonder if the machine shops or any of those racers still have some heavy duty replacement E drive parts. Do you know anyone who can still work on them or has any parts? I have a few of them. Bill
Had a great time all through the 70's 80's 90's racing Magnums, Mirages, and the Motor City Magic Image Cat, & as a crew chief For the Easter Express Skater cat. Than if that wasn't enuff abuse I was a offshore referee till 2006. But no broken bones ! Ken Black and Pete have passed on years ago, so the parts would be scares. But I'm sure someone could up here could work on them.

Conquistador_del_mar
10-11-2008, 10:14 AM
Had a great time all through the 70's 80's 90's racing Magnums, Mirages, and the Motor City Magic Image Cat, & as a crew chief For the Easter Express Skater cat. Than if that wasn't enuff abuse I was a offshore referee till 2006. But no broken bones ! Ken Black and Pete have passed on years ago, so the parts would be scares. But I'm sure someone could up here could work on them.

You lived one of my dreams. Back when I was in my 20s and early 30s, I wanted to race, but I had no opportunities. The new cat boats around here are routinely doing 120MPH+ with at least one doing 185MPH. I have a man in my rental stalls with one doing 150MPH with twin 1100HP Sterling engines - and these are all sport class individually owned boats. Back in the early 70s, my little 18 Donzi was about as fast as they came around here doing 60MPH - what a world!! Bill

smidgen too
10-11-2008, 01:26 PM
You lived one of my dreams. Back when I was in my 20s and early 30s, I wanted to race, but I had no opportunities. The new cat boats around here are routinely doing 120MPH+ with at least one doing 185MPH. I have a man in my rental stalls with one doing 150MPH with twin 1100HP Sterling engines - and these are all sport class individually owned boats. Back in the early 70s, my little 18 Donzi was about as fast as they came around here doing 60MPH - what a world!! Bill
My 1970 16' Donzi did 53mph, I thought I was living on the edge, the 32' Skater did 120mph at Lake X back in 1992 with two 700hp smallblocks. Thats when I was Glade that I was the crew chife and not racing. Today it's all about $$$$$$$ = Speed. I have one friend that has a 47' Apache with 3 1000+hp motors, runs 130+. And my other friend has the old Reliable 40' race Skater, it runs 160+, and these are pleasure boats ??????

Staffan Berg
10-12-2008, 09:28 AM
Aaron just woke me up with an email.
Sweden Calling:
I have my Magnum 27 from 1972 powered with a single engine.
496HO with Bravo One.
425hp
X-mounted as high as possible
Prop: Mirage 23 55 knots=63.4mph
Trimmed maximum on flat water.
Today I use a 4blade bravo 22 for a smoother ride.
(The children wants to wakeboard)
After installing the engine in normal position in run very nice in the water but did not have the top speed as mentioned above.
With the new x-mounted installation its faster but the ride in the water is more nervous. Tight turns is not possible, the prop is cavatating.
Otherwise - I am very pleased with my single engine setup.
If I drop something in the engine compartment - I can pick it up the same year.
The thing with Magnum 27 is:
You can go fast in any water condition.
It turns heads.
It handles very nice in the water.
About the hull number - I found my number on more than 10 different positions.
On the wood on the backside of the "cushions" close to the passenger seat.
On the wood on the opposite side of the "hatch" on the floor. (Under the carpet)
Inside the cock pit (Steering Wheel / Instruments)
And most af all:
Good luck with your work. Take many pictures.
Staffan
Magnum 27 Sport
Donzi St.Tropez
Porsche Cayman S
Still married:boat:

Conquistador_del_mar
10-12-2008, 10:19 AM
My 1970 16' Donzi did 53mph, I thought I was living on the edge, the 32' Skater did 120mph at Lake X back in 1992 with two 700hp smallblocks. Thats when I was Glade that I was the crew chife and not racing. Today it's all about $$$$$$$ = Speed. I have one friend that has a 47' Apache with 3 1000+hp motors, runs 130+. And my other friend has the old Reliable 40' race Skater, it runs 160+, and these are pleasure boats ??????

120MPH in 1992 was moving.
I also thought my 1971 18' was running at the edge whenever I pushed it to the 60MPH mark - and it was. The big cat boats are probably relatively safe comparatively up to a point of certain speeds, but they sure come up on situations fast! Since I have never run those kinds of speeds, I can not really comment on how safe I think they are. One thing I do know is that if there is a mechanical failure, it can end in disaster at speeds over 100MPH much more often compared to speeds in the mid 60s or so. To my knowledge on our Lake Texoma, there has only been one fatality wreck due to high speed mechanical failure and it took 5 lives. Most of our boating fatalities are due to other causes, but I again digress. I do hope that there are not enough high speed fatality boating accidents to make the "powers that be" put a speed limit on our lake. I always fear that day is coming. Bill

Conquistador_del_mar
10-12-2008, 10:50 AM
Aaron just woke me up with an email.
Sweden Calling:
I have my Magnum 27 from 1972 powered with a single engine.
496HO with Bravo One.
425hp
X-mounted as high as possible
Prop: Mirage 23 55 knots=63.4mph
Trimmed maximum on flat water.
Today I use a 4blade bravo 22 for a smoother ride.
(The children wants to wakeboard)
After installing the engine in normal position in run very nice in the water but did not have the top speed as mentioned above.
With the new x-mounted installation its faster but the ride in the water is more nervous. Tight turns is not possible, the prop is cavatating.
Otherwise - I am very pleased with my single engine setup.
If I drop something in the engine compartment - I can pick it up the same year.
The thing with Magnum 27 is:
You can go fast in any water condition.
It turns heads.
It handles very nice in the water.
About the hull number - I found my number on more than 10 different positions.
On the wood on the backside of the "cushions" close to the passenger seat.
On the wood on the opposite side of the "hatch" on the floor. (Under the carpet)
Inside the cock pit (Steering Wheel / Instruments)
And most af all:
Good luck with your work. Take many pictures.
Staffan
Magnum 27 Sport
Donzi St.Tropez
Porsche Cayman S
Still married:boat:

Staffan,
Thank you so much for the information! Do you know how much higher you mounted the drive when you reinstalled it, and how much speed you gained? It will be quite some time before I am at the point of installing power, but I would like to get some better ideas for when I build the engine mount stringers for the single engine I plan to install. Yes, having a single engine makes working in the engine compartment much easier. I'll bet that your boat puts up a huge wake for wakeboarding! I used to like the high wake behind my Donzi so I could jump. Behind your Magnum I could have flown! I will continue looking for my hull numbers using your information - unfortunately many of the places you mentioned are no longer in my project Magnum, but I have lots of places to be explored. Is there any chance you could post some pictures of your Magnum? It sounds great. Thanks again, Bill

superhatz
10-12-2008, 01:45 PM
Here are some photos Staffan sent me.....a gorgeous example!

Staffan.....what is your hull number?....and did you have to add an engine scoop or raised hatch for the higher x-dim?

Staffan Berg
10-12-2008, 02:58 PM
Hi Aaron - thanks for waking me up.
My hull number is 178. Sold in St.Tropez, France, in may 1972.
I found the list of equipment from 1972 in the boat when I got the boat in 2000. I also found a delivery certificate.
No, I did not raised the hatch when I reinstalled the engine with a higher x-dimension.
The x-dim is 3 inches higher now. The engine is very close to the hatch.
The boat is 4 mph faster.
The boat is winterized and stored 40 feet up in a boat garage.
I dont have access to the boat but if you (Bill) still are curious in may 2009 I could take som photos of my setup.
About the hull number.
Inside the engine compartment on the opposite side of the passenger seat I found a Plastic Label screwed into the wood/plastic, from Magnum Marine with the hull number=178, Max number of passengers=6, Maximum HP=600.

Staffan Berg
10-12-2008, 03:06 PM
I forgot to tell you:
I have a Silencer from Mercruiser installed. Mounted on the inside of the transom. I believe it is from the racing division at Mercruiser.
The boat have a very nice sound.
I dont know if that is positive or negative for the top speed.

HallJ
10-12-2008, 10:34 PM
Hey Bill,

Here is another single engine Mag, "Vixen". Powered by a 540. 80 plus MPH.
With a B1. Mel used to race it but has since converted it back for pleasure boat use. Mel is real nice guy. He would be able to answer your X dim questions for sure. Went for a ride in it last winter around Sanibel Island.
A very nice running boat. 2003 APBA national champ to boot!


Jeff

HallJ
10-12-2008, 10:42 PM
What the hell. Here's another pic. Single engine Mag of Billy Martin's, Hustler II. With Roger Munn at the throttles.

Jeff

HallJ
10-12-2008, 10:55 PM
Hi,

Aaron!

superhatz
10-12-2008, 11:12 PM
Hi,

Aaron!

I promise I won't make you work on the yellow car....:nilly:

Conquistador_del_mar
10-13-2008, 01:02 AM
Here are some photos Staffan sent me.....a gorgeous example!


Staffan.....what is your hull number?....and did you have to add an engine scoop or raised hatch for the higher x-dim?

Wow! What a georgeous boat! Even the dash layout is impeccable. Thanks


Hi Aaron - thanks for waking me up.
My hull number is 178. Sold in St.Tropez, France, in may 1972.
I found the list of equipment from 1972 in the boat when I got the boat in 2000. I also found a delivery certificate.
No, I did not raised the hatch when I reinstalled the engine with a higher x-dimension.
The x-dim is 3 inches higher now. The engine is very close to the hatch.
The boat is 4 mph faster.
The boat is winterized and stored 40 feet up in a boat garage.
I dont have access to the boat but if you (Bill) still are curious in may 2009 I could take som photos of my setup.
About the hull number.
Inside the engine compartment on the opposite side of the passenger seat I found a Plastic Label screwed into the wood/plastic, from Magnum Marine with the hull number=178, Max number of passengers=6, Maximum HP=600.

Staffan,
Thank you again for the information. I actually drove back out to my business tonight to look in the places you mentioned for my HIN, but I still can't find it. I have not given up yet, though. 3" higher X is a fair amount. I will have to weigh loss of tight turning vs top end speed, but I have a long way to go before then. Absolutely, if you have any more pictures, I would love to see them! Bill


Hey Bill,

Here is another single engine Mag, "Vixen". Powered by a 540. 80 plus MPH.
With a B1. Mel used to race it but has since converted it back for pleasure boat use. Mel is real nice guy. He would be able to answer your X dim questions for sure. Went for a ride in it last winter around Sanibel Island.
A very nice running boat. 2003 APBA national champ to boot!


Jeff

Great pictures! Thanks. Seeing the boat out of the water in the 4th picture is inspiring. I keep thinking about installing more power as I see these faster boats. I have plenty of time to worry about the engine later, but I have already scrapped my original idea of installing a 475HP SBC 383CID stroked engine that I already bought since I don't think it will make the torque the 27' needs.

superhatz
10-13-2008, 01:09 AM
Seriously.....you need this!

http://www.mercuryracing.com/sterndrives/hp1200sci.php

Conquistador_del_mar
10-13-2008, 10:55 AM
Seriously.....you need this!

http://www.mercuryracing.com/sterndrives/hp1200sci.php

If I were trying to make a poker run type boat or race, that package might be in the cards. Out of curiosity, I wonder how much that engine/drive package would be. I'm guessing you could buy a nice Dodge Viper for about the same amount. Of course, if you want to buy it for me..................:yes:

smidgen too
10-14-2008, 01:20 AM
What the hell. Here's another pic. Single engine Mag of Billy Martin's, Hustler II. With Roger Munn at the throttles.

Jeff
Jeff that is just a cool Mag. Love that 3 man set up. Here are few more shot's of the [#12 Thunder Bird,, Streaker] of Preston Henn.

Morgan's Cloud
10-14-2008, 07:08 AM
120MPH in 1992 was moving.
I also thought my 1971 18' was running at the edge whenever I pushed it to the 60MPH mark - and it was. The big cat boats are probably relatively safe comparatively up to a point of certain speeds, but they sure come up on situations fast! Since I have never run those kinds of speeds, I can not really comment on how safe I think they are. One thing I do know is that if there is a mechanical failure, it can end in disaster at speeds over 100MPH much more often compared to speeds in the mid 60s or so. To my knowledge on our Lake Texoma, there has only been one fatality wreck due to high speed mechanical failure and it took 5 lives. Most of our boating fatalities are due to other causes, but I again digress. I do hope that there are not enough high speed fatality boating accidents to make the "powers that be" put a speed limit on our lake. I always fear that day is coming. Bill
Can't resist adding my 2c on this ... I remember when the Aeromarine engines became available and Don started dropping them in his boats .. and racing went to a new level ... They started doing just over 70 mph or so ... :nilly:
By comparison with todays speeds I would guess that it must have been like those cable tv ads ... 'Set it and forget it ' ... Don't touch the throttles untill the race is over ... haha . What can go wrong in a heavy 36 foot boat that doesn't even have a top speed of 80 mph ?
Last summer I went for a spin in a twin engine 24 Skater that had a potential top end of 115 ... We were running in and only took it up to 93 ... I have NO desire to go that fast in a boat any more so all those over 100mph guys can have it all they want !
Another thing I like about Staffan's boat is that even with only a single it has a nice at rest attitude .
Funny thing about all the places his hull number was (as a -72) ... Mine as a -73 only had it on the transom ... none anywhere else , believe me .
Steve

Staffan Berg
10-14-2008, 08:40 AM
My hull number is written with paint or carved in wood in different places.

Maybe they signed each piece during the process of fitting everything together.

When I restored my boat and took the "wood" away from the deck I found a message:
"Charlie - I need another beer" was written in glue.

Seems like my boat was very much "hand made"

Conquistador_del_mar
10-14-2008, 10:07 AM
Can't resist adding my 2c on this ... I remember when the Aeromarine engines became available and Don started dropping them in his boats .. and racing went to a new level ... They started doing just over 70 mph or so ... :nilly:
By comparison with todays speeds I would guess that it must have been like those cable tv ads ... 'Set it and forget it ' ... Don't touch the throttles untill the race is over ... haha . What can go wrong in a heavy 36 foot boat that doesn't even have a top speed of 80 mph ?
Last summer I went for a spin in a twin engine 24 Skater that had a potential top end of 115 ... We were running in and only took it up to 93 ... I have NO desire to go that fast in a boat any more so all those over 100mph guys can have it all they want !
Another thing I like about Staffan's boat is that even with only a single it has a nice at rest attitude .
Funny thing about all the places his hull number was (as a -72) ... Mine as a -73 only had it on the transom ... none anywhere else , believe me .
Steve

Steve,
I agree about the speeds in many of the newer boats. I have a 23' Eliminator Daytona that will approach 100, but I have rarely pushed it that far since it does not feel safe above about 80MPH where I can see and react to what is coming up. On light to medium 2' chop, it feels great to get on top at 65-70MPH where it still feels safe. I don't like to take out friends or family and expose them to anything other than a nice relatively fast ride unless it is smooth. On a side note, the Eliminator tunnel hull will actually go faster up wind since it helps lift the hull by packing the air under the hull. I certainly can not understand guys wanting to make their boats go faster than they were ever really intended, especially to the point of being dangerous. In my book, if someone really wants to go faster, they should wait until they can afford a larger hull more intended for the speed instead of packing more HP into a smaller boat - my two cents also.
Thanks for the information on your hull number location. I am starting to get concerned that I might not find my HIN after all. Bill


My hull number is written with paint or carved in wood in different places.

Maybe they signed each piece during the process of fitting everything together.

When I restored my boat and took the "wood" away from the deck I found a message:
"Charlie - I need another beer" was written in glue.

Seems like my boat was very much "hand made"

Now that is funny about the message written in glue! I actually found a beer can in an inaccessable place in a boat once so I know it was placed there at the factory. I have given my new project Magnum a pretty good once over for the HIN, but it still might show up when I get around to stripping it all the way. I checked out the underside of the deck and console as well as the stringers, bulkheads, and crossmembers and obviously the transom. Thanks, Bill

Staffan Berg
10-14-2008, 10:34 AM
Bill
Is it a Magnum ? :kingme:

Conquistador_del_mar
10-14-2008, 10:55 AM
Bill
Is it a Magnum ? :kingme:

Staffan,
I have no doubt that mine is a Magnum 27' sport, but it does not have the quantity of numbers that your boat apparently has. Mine had the transom replaced and gelcoated over. Steve (Morgan's Cloud) also has a 1973 with the HIN only on the transom as he just reported. Typically, these earlier boats had very few HIN numbers. My 1971 Donzi 18' only has a paper thin aluminum plate with some numbers embossed and located behind the back seat - that is all it has for identification. If it were lost or removed, there would be no other identification numbers. I am beginning to think that mine is an earlier model than 1973 which is what it was supposed to be. Bill

Staffan Berg
10-14-2008, 02:35 PM
Bill
Is it a magnum ?

Off course its a magnum - it was a joke.

Anyway - god luck with your restoration.

Conquistador_del_mar
10-14-2008, 11:45 PM
Bill
Is it a magnum ?

Off course its a magnum - it was a joke.

Anyway - god luck with your restoration.

Staffan,
I thought you were thinking it might be an Aero or another copy boat manufacturer. I will not need any luck - just lots of hard work - lol. I keep coming into my shop and the little elves never seem to have visited over night - :boggled:

Conquistador_del_mar
02-12-2009, 08:37 PM
I took about an hour out of my day this afternoon to pull one of the two fuel tanks out of the Magnum 27 sport which I will be restoring. With a 12" Sawsall blade and very little persuation, it came out fairly easily. It is soaking wet under the tank and in the foam, but the tank looks perfect in terms of its integrity with absolutely no corrosion. I will be checking it out better, but I think it is fine (amazingly). I took the measurements and calculated the size when I got home this evening. It comes to a 48.4 gallon size (probably called a 50 gallon tank). Bill

Staffan Berg
02-13-2009, 01:43 AM
I replaced one of my gas tanks.

I did not know how to put the new back with foam.
You know thr rubber "carpet" you have in a tent when you are out camping,

I used something like that and the fitted the tank from above with stainless steel looking like this: L

What is your plan ? Are you using foam ?

// Staffan:sweden:

Conquistador_del_mar
02-13-2009, 10:54 AM
I replaced one of my gas tanks.

I did not know how to put the new back with foam.
You know thr rubber "carpet" you have in a tent when you are out camping,

I used something like that and the fitted the tank from above with stainless steel looking like this: L

What is your plan ? Are you using foam ?

// Staffan:sweden:

Yes, I will use the two part foam. There are apparently different densities of the foam as I have learned here on the Donzi site. I have always used a foam from a company named BMK with perfect results, but I don't know what density they have always sent to me. A two gallon kit (gallon of A and gallon of part B) will expand to 10 cubic feet. Bill

Conquistador_del_mar
03-12-2009, 08:38 PM
I have removed both 48 gallon fuel tanks along with all the soaked foam. After close inspection, both tanks will need rebuilding. I also removed the center bow deck insert which is about 10' long and 4 ' wide (a triangular shaped piece) that surprised me in that it is made of a fiberboard. Some of the deck will need rebuilding since there is delamination. I ordered about $700 worth of materials today that I will need for some of the structural aspects of the restoration along with starting to strip the boat down. I will be lowering the floor by about 3" since it sets too high for my liking. That will take it down to the inside corners where the chines make the perpendicular angle from the bottom to the sides. I will start to take and post pictures as I get farther along. Just a quick update. Bill

gcarter
03-12-2009, 09:09 PM
Yes, I will use the two part foam. There are apparently different densities of the foam as I have learned here on the Donzi site. I have always used a foam from a company named BMK with perfect results, but I don't know what density they have always sent to me. A two gallon kit (gallon of A and gallon of part B) will expand to 10 cubic feet. Bill

Hi Bill,
Haven't stopped in a while.
I think the "powers that be" require 4# density foam for tanks.
This is the site I've always used;
http://www.shopmaninc.com/foam.html
Of course there's other suppliers.....
Scroll down to the FOAM-0416 kit. The two (2) one gallon containers weigh 16 # and makes up 4 cu. ft. I guess if the foam's too light, or not dense enough, it might compress and leave everything loose.
Anyway, I've used this several for tanks and it's worked well.

Good luck w/it.

Conquistador_del_mar
03-12-2009, 11:24 PM
Hi Bill,
Haven't stopped in a while.
I think the "powers that be" require 4# density foam for tanks.
This is the site I've always used;
http://www.shopmaninc.com/foam.html
Of course there's other suppliers.....
Scroll down to the FOAM-0416 kit. The two (2) one gallon containers weigh 16 # and makes up 4 cu. ft. I guess if the foam's too light, or not dense enough, it might compress and leave everything loose.
Anyway, I've used this several for tanks and it's worked well.

Good luck w/it.

Thanks, George. They apparently make quite a few densities of foam that I can choose from. Their prices seem pretty good, but I will call BMK tomorrow to see how they compare and let you know for future reference. Bill

Conquistador_del_mar
03-13-2009, 06:38 PM
I took these pictures right before leaving my shop this evening. The fuel tanks are out and the foam was all removed. I would guess the saturated foam weighed about 90lbs with three lawn size trash bags full of it. I temporarily propped up the deck to see if I could get it right before jumping into rebuilding the rotted center section with 1/2" Divinycell foam core which I will be receiving next week. It will take more support from below deck, but it is going to work fine. I will cut the top fiberglass back to where it is solid and prep the underlying glass for the core material and build it back to a solid fiberglass top layer on the deck with the core as the main strength. I will be filling the hatch hole since I don't plan on having one. Even though Aaron will sigh, I do not plan to keep the triangular deck center piece at this point. I plan to make it a solid deck with very few pieces of hardware. Let the fun begin! Bill

superhatz
03-15-2009, 01:10 AM
*sigh*.......:wink:

I trust you Bill.....just don't make it look like this.

:)

Conquistador_del_mar
03-15-2009, 02:36 AM
*sigh*.......:wink:

I trust you Bill.....just don't make it look like this.

:)

Ouch! Isn't that where the expression "this is your boat on drugs" came from - lol. At this point I am still planning on dark blue and white. I will cement my final plans as I get farther along, but I can assure you it will be done in a good conservative venue. I am getting pumped up on the project now. What do you think about my dropping the floor by about 3" or more? It sure seems like the driver stands too high with the present setup. Bill

superhatz
03-15-2009, 03:24 AM
Lowering the floor isn't a bad idea. The previous owner of my boat took the shock pedestals out of my seats so they sit quite a bit lower....I like it. To me, the boat feels like a 27 foot Donzi 18.....:)

fogducker III
03-15-2009, 02:10 PM
I just read this entire post for the first time............VERY interesting, informative and WAY beyond anything I could imagine even trying to do..........well done Bill.

I was wondering if you ever found a HIN..? I saw that the boat "might" have been the Green Hornet? Are you not able to get details of ownership and perhaps HIN from the MC registration numbers shown on the boat in the pictures? Just an idea....? At least it might lead to some information that might help...?

Conquistador_del_mar
03-15-2009, 06:49 PM
Lowering the floor isn't a bad idea. The previous owner of my boat took the shock pedestals out of my seats so they sit quite a bit lower....I like it. To me, the boat feels like a 27 foot Donzi 18.....:)

Thanks, Aaron.


I just read this entire post for the first time............VERY interesting, informative and WAY beyond anything I could imagine even trying to do..........well done Bill.

I was wondering if you ever found a HIN..? I saw that the boat "might" have been the Green Hornet? Are you not able to get details of ownership and perhaps HIN from the MC registration numbers shown on the boat in the pictures? Just an idea....? At least it might lead to some information that might help...?

Thanks, Fog. I have been through the interior and transom pretty well now with no HIN. I even crawled to the bow area and checked under the deck, bulkheads, etc. I have not given up yet, and I really look forward to sanding the repainted sides to see what they reveal along with pulling the rubrail in case they might hide a number. As they say "its not over til its over". Bill

Conquistador_del_mar
03-24-2009, 12:46 AM
After discovering that there was some pitting in the aluminum of the two 50 gallon fuel tanks from being in contact with the water saturated foam, I am almost finished fiberglassing them. I ground the entire surface with a foam grinder wheel loaded with 36 grit stick-on 3M sanding discs followed by wiping them down with laquer thinner. They are very well made tanks with 3 compartments or baffles welded on the inside and very nice welds on the corners. My guess is that it would cost around $700 each to have them duplicated (maybe more), but it costs about $80 each for the materials to glass them. I have done this method of sealing fuel tanks before with none of them ever leaking again. They will now be impervious to any future water contact (which should not happen), and they will be much stronger - especially after they are foamed into place. Some people might think the aluminum will expand and contract enough to break the fiberglass loose, but I have yet to see that happen. After fiberglassing the sides, I will lay a 3" strip over the corners after grinding the fresh glass to make better contact. Since I have not seen anyone in the Donzi forum use this method, I am curious as to why everyone replaces the tanks instead. I don't know if I mentioned it, but I first cleaned out the tanks with B12 Chemdip by leaving it to soak for a couple days since there was some built up debris at the bottom followed by washing them out with gasoline and then water (the last bit of which evaporated out after a day in the sun). A little dangerous, but not if one is careful. They are like new inside after inspecting them with a flashlight and a small inspection mirror - at least up to the first baffle which is 1/3 of the way down the tank. Strangely, one of the tanks had a 6" SS 3/8" bolt inside. When done with the glass work, I will be foaming them into place and making a new floor over them in the cabin forward of the cokcpit bulkhead. Onward, Bill

PS - Notice the rectangular patch on the one tank from the factory. I have a hunch it was punctured or otherwise damaged before it was ever installed.

scippy
03-26-2009, 10:00 PM
Bill, I'm thinking the large part of this journey to restoration of the Mag
is the many little tasks along the way that makes the overall project to
getting her done (must be) sooo rewarding. I keep telling my wife but
she doesn't understand, why buying an old Mag project is anything but
crazy.

smidgen too
03-26-2009, 11:41 PM
Bill, I'm thinking the large part of this journey to restoration of the Mag
is the many little tasks along the way that makes the overall project to
getting her done (must be) sooo rewarding. I keep telling my wife but
she doesn't understand, why buying an old Mag project is anything but
crazy.

IT'S GREAT THERAPY :biggrin.:

superhatz
03-27-2009, 12:24 AM
IT'S GREAT THERAPY :biggrin.:

Just not back therapy...right Mark?...:)

Conquistador_del_mar
03-27-2009, 12:40 AM
Bill, I'm thinking the large part of this journey to restoration of the Mag
is the many little tasks along the way that makes the overall project to
getting her done (must be) sooo rewarding. I keep telling my wife but
she doesn't understand, why buying an old Mag project is anything but
crazy.

Yep, my personal satisfaction is taking something that others would discard and turning it into a functional thing of beauty. I don't think everyone really understands that restoring a car or boat is much like painting a picture in 3D - it is a culmination of the many arts and talents one develops over his lifetime. I always enjoy a good challenge, too. There are many easier mediums to work, but I prefer cars and boats. There is no greater sense of satisfaction to me than driving something that I "created". Bill


IT'S GREAT THERAPY :biggrin.:

Exactly. I know the man who does a great job of landscaping his house feels the same sense of accomplishment, and he gets to enjoy it along with his friends and neighbors. Gardening and landscaping come to mind when I think of positive mental therapy. Bill

Conquistador_del_mar
03-27-2009, 12:56 AM
Today I got ugly with the top deck. I used a circular saw and cut to the depth of the core material so I could see how far I needed to go. I discovered how Magnum made the bow deck triangular recessed area that accomodates the triangular insert on the surface. They, of course, made the recess in the mold followed by glassing in a 1/4" plywood exact copy of the triangle on the inside of the mold directly covering the triangle. Outside of the plywood triangle, they used 3/8" balsa wood as the core material, sandwiched with about 1/4" of fiberglass on the top layer (bottom of the deck). I will be deciding how far to go with my new core material to replace the bad core material, and I will be making a solid deck with no trianglular recess. I will show some pictures in a day or two of what I mean. Bill

scippy
03-28-2009, 05:09 PM
I am getting pumped up on the project now. What do you think about my dropping the floor by about 3" or more? It sure seems like the driver stands too high with the present setup. Bill

Bill, I only recently stood up at the helm in a 27 Mag sport and felt as if
I were standing in my 18c - I'm sure that's not the case, but relative to
it's 27'+ lenght, you do stand quite tall. What factored in this design of
the 27 sport? weight, performance etc. etc. I know the 28 Maltese has
a higher freeboard..........or is the floor lower???

Conquistador_del_mar
03-29-2009, 09:47 AM
Bill, I only recently stood up at the helm in a 27 Mag sport and felt as if
I were standing in my 18c - I'm sure that's not the case, but relative to
it's 27'+ lenght, you do stand quite tall. What factored in this design of
the 27 sport? weight, performance etc. etc. I know the 28 Maltese has
a higher freeboard..........or is the floor lower???

Scippy,
Yes, I am also surprised about the distance from the floor to the upper corners of the cockpit. I will not feel comfortable driving the boat while standing since I do not feel enclosed. My boat does not have a floor in it right now. The only place I felt comfortable standing was when I stand almost at the keel. There are some other members here who might be able to answer historical questions about Magnums, but this is my first one and I really don't know much about them except that I like them - :yes:. I sure have a long way to go with mine, but I will be chipping away at the restoration. If I get with the program, I might have the deck glassed back to where I want it this coming week. Bill

donzi2287
03-29-2009, 05:52 PM
Bill,
I just replaced my tank in my 22, back to aluminum and zinc chromate with paint to help stop what lasted 22 years without !! The problem with fiberglass is a lot of todays gas has ethanol in it which eats away at fiberglass. Listen, the shop that built my tank is not affected by the economy........ he loves ethanol, he is loaded with new ALUMINUM tank work.

Eddie

Conquistador_del_mar
03-29-2009, 06:01 PM
This afternoon, I finished cutting out the soft core in the deck, cutting out the first inch of balsa from under the cut area , grinding the area, and vacuuming up the material in preparation for repairing the deck. I will start with fiberglassing the holes after applying wax paper under the skin with propped up plywood for supports. Then I will be forcing resin paste with fiberglass under the top at the edges for support from where the new core will meet with the old core. Then I will be laying fiberglass mat and divinycell core followed by more mat at the surface. After that hardens, I will lay reinforced resin paste to the very surface for a smoothing finish, air file to a near perfect surface, and then apply a few coats of white gelcoat to the very surface to be used as the final surface prep before eventually painting it. Onwards, Bill

Conquistador_del_mar
03-29-2009, 06:14 PM
Bill,
I just replaced my tank in my 22, back to aluminum and zinc chromate with paint to help stop what lasted 22 years without !! The problem with fiberglass is a lot of todays gas has ethanol in it which eats away at fiberglass. Listen, the shop that built my tank is not affected by the economy........ he loves ethanol, he is loaded with new ALUMINUM tank work.

Eddie

Eddie,
I agree that it would not be wise to make an entire tank out of fiberglass - look at what the old Hatteras boats are going through with ethanol problems in their fiberglass tanks. In my case, I only found one pinhole in one of the two tanks after turning them with a few gallons of gas, but the pitting is why I decided to glass them in. This way they will be protected forever, and I am not worried about the one pinhole letting gas eat the fiberglass away. I probably should have welded up that one pinhole first, but I don't think it will ever let go there. Thanks, Bill

Just Say N20
03-29-2009, 06:35 PM
Of no relevance, but maybe interesting. . .

Many of the older fiberglass tanks were made before anyone even imagined that there would be ethanol mixed in with gas, so the resins used were never designed to be able to withstand ethanol.

Since this is now a known problem, new tanks are designed to withstand the effects of ethanol.

Any old tank that now holds E-10 gas, will have other problems as well. The alcohol is a stronger solvent than gas, and will loosen up gunk that had accumulated on the tank walls/baffles and clog fuel filters, and potentially cause other fuel delivery problems.

Also, alcohol is very hydrophilic and will attract more water to the fuel. At some point this will lead to separation of the fuel into a water layer, alcohol layer and gas layer, with the water on the bottom, where the intake is. The same thing happens in cars, but the fuel is burned through so quickly it rarely has time to develop into a problem.

Most folks probably burn through gas in their Donzis quickly too. The problem becomes a "boat stopper" when you have a craft that holds 100s of gallons that can sit for several months without being used up.

So far, we are lucky, at least on the Michigan side of Lake Michigan in that at most marinas, marine gas doesn't contain ethanol, yet.

donzi2287
03-29-2009, 06:54 PM
Yeah, that makes sense! Good luck with your project! It's coming out nice if I must say!!!!!

smidgen too
03-31-2009, 11:15 PM
Of no relevance, but maybe interesting. . .

Many of the older fiberglass tanks were made before anyone even imagined that there would be ethanol mixed in with gas, so the resins used were never designed to be able to withstand ethanol.

Since this is now a known problem, new tanks are designed to withstand the effects of ethanol.

Any old tank that now holds E-10 gas, will have other problems as well. The alcohol is a stronger solvent than gas, and will loosen up gunk that had accumulated on the tank walls/baffles and clog fuel filters, and potentially cause other fuel delivery problems.

Also, alcohol is very hydrophilic and will attract more water to the fuel. At some point this will lead to separation of the fuel into a water layer, alcohol layer and gas layer, with the water on the bottom, where the intake is. The same thing happens in cars, but the fuel is burned through so quickly it rarely has time to develop into a problem.

Most folks probably burn through gas in their Donzis quickly too. The problem becomes a "boat stopper" when you have a craft that holds 100s of gallons that can sit for several months without being used up.

So far, we are lucky, at least on the Michigan side of Lake Michigan in that at most marinas, marine gas doesn't contain ethanol, yet.
I stoped in this week at the marina here on Lake St Clair thats building the engines for the Cary. They said alcohol blended gas is the only fuel that they can buy this year. They had to spend lots of $$$$$$ to get there tanks cleaned to use it. I guess I'm lucky my Cobra, Mirage, & Chris Craft all have aluminium tanks. I have been using road gas that must had some alcohol in it, so far so good ????:rolleyes:

smidgen too
03-31-2009, 11:22 PM
Bill, GREAT JOB !! no short cut's here !:beer:

Just Say N20
04-01-2009, 02:36 PM
I stoped in this week at the marina here on Lake St Clair thats building the engines for the Cary. They said alcohol blended gas is the only fuel that they can buy this year. They had to spend lots of $$$$$$ to get there tanks cleaned to use it. I guess I'm lucky my Cobra, Mirage, & Chris Craft all have aluminium tanks. I have been using road gas that must had some alcohol in it, so far so good ????:rolleyes:

I have been dreading when this might happen on Lake Michigan. Our CARVER holds 280 gallons of gas, which means it is going to sit for a while. This sitting just invites the problems I mentioned above.

The alcohol not only loosens up crap on the inside of the tank, but it does the same to anything that might be in the fuel lines. It also is much harder on the fuel lines, especially those not designed for use with alcohol. And, it can deteriorate any gaskets it comes in contact with.

So far, so good is good. I haven't checked any of the marinas on this side of the state, but last year during our boat trip, they all said they were straight gas.

Conquistador_del_mar
04-01-2009, 06:52 PM
Bill, GREAT JOB !! no short cut's here !:beer:
This one needs so many aspects of restoration that I decided to tackle from the bow deck and work down and back. When I get it done, I don't want to look back and say "I really should have addressed that potential problem". Thanks, Bill


I have been dreading when this might happen on Lake Michigan. Our CARVER holds 280 gallons of gas, which means it is going to sit for a while. This sitting just invites the problems I mentioned above.

The alcohol not only loosens up crap on the inside of the tank, but it does the same to anything that might be in the fuel lines. It also is much harder on the fuel lines, especially those not designed for use with alcohol. And, it can deteriorate any gaskets it comes in contact with.

So far, so good is good. I haven't checked any of the marinas on this side of the state, but last year during our boat trip, they all said they were straight gas.

I am now curious what gas our local marinas and nearby land stations are carrying. I remember having problems with my Aeroquip fuel lines on my Eliminator - I now wonder if it was a load of ethanol that did it. Bill

Conquistador_del_mar
04-04-2009, 09:42 PM
I didn't get a far as I had hoped this week, but I did lay in the new 1/4" Divinycell on the deck. I filled the void where I had cut out the balsa core back about 1" with polyester resin paste and fiberglass chopped strands, followed by laying a heavy sheet of fiberglass mat, and then the Divinycell sheets. I made sure the polyester paste mixture squeezed out to the edge of the Divinycell core material, and pressed the Divinycell sheets firmly into the fresh resin and fiberglass. When I came back, it was solid as a rock. Now I only need to grind back the edges and lay another sheet or two on the surface. Bingo! Almost a new deck after working it down to smooth with an air file followed by filler paste and gelcoat. Bill

scippy
04-06-2009, 02:55 PM
Can anyboby tell me how many different deck molds were available for the
1976 27' Mag sport? - I've seen flat decks w/ straight wind screens.
and I've seen triangular recessed decks w/ pointed wind screens and straight fairings as well, but not sure if there were more available or just
optional combinations...................................... ...............Thanks

superhatz
04-07-2009, 12:17 AM
Can anyboby tell me how many different deck molds were available for the
1976 27' Mag sport? - I've seen flat decks w/ straight wind screens.
and I've seen triangular recessed decks w/ pointed wind screens and straight fairings as well, but not sure if there were more available or just
optional combinations...................................... ...............Thanks

All 27 Sports had the triangular insert...but some have been filled in over the years.

There were both flat and pointed windscreen versions.

Conquistador_del_mar
04-11-2009, 06:50 PM
After spending 4 days in San Antonio, I got back to the deck on the Magnum today. Before I left, I had ground the edges of the pentagonal shaped area to be fiberglassed and laid one sheet of heavy mat on the Divinycell with 3.3 gallons of polyester resin for good coverage. I then laid and stretched sheets of wax paper to help it cure and lay flat as possible. Today I pulled the wax paper and ground it to a workable flat surface. The next step will be to fill the slightly low area with polyester resin putty and work it down to a smooth surface with the air file sander. I stepped all over the surface which is now very stiff, and it held the form after releasing the supports from underneath which were in place during the rebuilding process. It is a little ugly right now, but it will really take shape after a few air file sessions with the putty. Onwards, Bill

scippy
04-12-2009, 02:21 PM
Bill, I don't remember, but is this repair being done with the deck
off? If not, must be a b*t**h to crawl through the bulk heads to
support the underside of the repair. gonna be nice though!

Conquistador_del_mar
04-12-2009, 04:51 PM
Bill, I don't remember, but is this repair being done with the deck
off? If not, must be a b*t**h to crawl through the bulk heads to
support the underside of the repair. gonna be nice though!

Yep, I must have crawled in and out at least 15 times to check the heights after installing support plates and rods to prop up the plywood plates. I am not nearly as nimble as I was years ago, either - lol. When getting to the very front, there are 3 bulkheads to get through. I debated taking the deck off, but I decided this was actually easier. I might add that I never quite understood how someone could get the deck right when it was downside up after removing it. It always seemed like it would be difficult to get right so the deck would fit correctly after making the repairs as well as determining the contours. In my case I can see the contours after every adjustment. Still a pain, though. Bill

Conquistador_del_mar
04-18-2009, 08:22 PM
I did not take any pictures, but today I finished gelcoating the deck. I rolled on a heavy coat of white gelcoat followed by spraying on a coat of Partall to help with the cure. By this afternoon, I was able to start sanding the gelcoat, but my back was worn out so I did some repairs to the bow nose. I believe the deck will look like new. On another note, I thought about having to make a new engine cover since it was lost when the seller drove it down to Missouri where I met him. I have about decided to make one where it follows the same radius curves of the back air scoops. It will have an intake area at the front and drop down like the side air intakes to the aft end. In other words, it will look like the sides, but it will have to be much smaller to follow the same angle lines back to the rear of the engine cover. This will take some work, but I think it will look great. Onwards, Bill

scippy
04-18-2009, 10:14 PM
[ I thought about having to make a new engine cover since it was lost when the seller drove it down to Missouri where I met him. I have about decided to make one where it follows the same radius curves of the back air scoops. It will have an intake area at the front and drop down like the side air intakes to the aft end. In other words, it will look like the sides, but it will have to be much smaller to follow the same angle lines back to the rear of the engine cover. This will take some work, but I think it will look great. Onwards, Bill[/quote]
Bill,
Will it match the 2 side air vent grilles? They are (in my opinion) one
of the best signature styles on the 27 sport. What material are you going to use? I would imagine something light but strong. Do save the template,
I might be very interested

Conquistador_del_mar
04-19-2009, 12:59 AM
Bill,
Will it match the 2 side air vent grilles? They are (in my opinion) one
of the best signature styles on the 27 sport. What material are you going to use? I would imagine something light but strong. Do save the template,
I might be very interested

Yes, the engine cover will match the side vent design - even following the same radius curves and slope, just smaller due to being set back a little. It will be open in the underside to allow more engine height if needed. I am hoping to use 1/2" Divinycell for the base and 1/4" for the curved sides so it will be strong and light weight. The forward facing section will also have the same slope as the side vents and will have matching louvered venting. I will have to make it from scratch so there will not be any left over mold, but I will be able to get you the pattern.
Did you finalize buying a 27 Magnum yet? If so, I missed seeing which one you decided to buy. Bill

scippy
04-19-2009, 04:43 PM
There should be one sitting in my backyard right after AOTH-
I won't break the news until then though. The "Humble" hull is
too pricey and the "project" hull is too far, but Something will
give lol.
Bill, I met a guy (old hungarian) down the road from me who
does fiberglass profiles i.e, statues, busts (not that kind) etc.
Today, His business is way off - had 4 steady workers before.
Now he has plenty of time to put up with the likes of me. he's
repairing the keel of an old sailboat and I find it so fasinating.
Gino will be 79 and the only thing that slows him down is the
economy.

Conquistador_del_mar
04-29-2009, 08:12 PM
A friend of mine had tracked the 27' Aero at a local marina, and the marina owner told him he could have it if he could come get it since he was tired of trying to talk to the owner who was delinquent. Mike went down today and got it loaded on a trailer. It will need some work, but it is hard to beat a free 27' Magnum knockoff! Here is a link to the boat from earlier. Bill

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showpost.php?p=469484&postcount=64

smidgen too
04-29-2009, 09:49 PM
A friend of mine had tracked the 27' Aero at a local marina, and the marina owner told him he could have it if he could come get it since he was tired of trying to talk to the owner who was delinquent. Mike went down today and got it loaded on a trailer. It will need some work, but it is hard to beat a free 27' Magnum knockoff! Here is a link to the boat from earlier. Bill

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showpost.php?p=469484&postcount=64
You can't beat FREE !!!!!:beer:

Conquistador_del_mar
05-27-2009, 08:34 PM
I have been dragging on my Magnum restoration. Today, I finished building new wood floor pieces in the cabin over the fuel tanks. I have removed the tanks, cleaned them, fiberglassed them, reinstalled them with foam, and built this new floor to go over them. Just removing the old shag carpet from the cabin was hard work with the old glue that they used. I gelcoated the ceiling, sides, and bulkheads after removing the carpet and grinding the surface (nasty work). The fuel gauges and tank outlets are temped into place, but I will have to finalize the fittings and interior of the cabin later. I would like to find some glass inspection plates to go over the fuel level gauges.
I spent about 40 minutes on the phone with a man who has raced Magnums at the suggestion of Jeff. The man has a great wealth of knowledge about what I need to get this boat running 70+MPH - all fairly affordable. I felt much better about the whole single engine idea after talking to him - :yes: Bill

superhatz
05-28-2009, 12:09 AM
I have been dragging on my Magnum restoration. Today, I finished building new wood floor pieces in the cabin over the fuel tanks. I have removed the tanks, cleaned them, fiberglassed them, reinstalled them with foam, and built this new floor to go over them. Just removing the old shag carpet from the cabin was hard work with the old glue that they used. I gelcoated the ceiling, sides, and bulkheads after removing the carpet and grinding the surface (nasty work). The fuel gauges and tank outlets are temped into place, but I will have to finalize the fittings and interior of the cabin later. I would like to find some glass inspection plates to go over the fuel level gauges.
I spent about 40 minutes on the phone with a man who has raced Magnums at the suggestion of Jeff. The man has a great wealth of knowledge about what I need to get this boat running 70+MPH - all fairly affordable. I felt much better about the whole single engine idea after talking to him - :yes: Bill

Did you talk with Roger Munn?....:)

Conquistador_del_mar
05-28-2009, 01:35 AM
Did you talk with Roger Munn?....:)

No, but Roger is a good friend of Mel's - in fact they apparently got together in just the last month. There is nothing like talking to the guys who have walked the talk. You might find it interesting that Mel's 27 Magnum weighs in at 4300lbs with engine and empty fuel tanks - that is almost 2000lbs lighter than most from my understanding. He honestly does not know why it was laid up so light. Another interesting note is that he admitted that moving the fuel tanks under the cockpit floor was a mistake - he would have left them under the cabin floor if he had known the resulting light bow problems while racing it in rough seas. Bill

superhatz
05-28-2009, 01:47 AM
No, but Roger is a good friend of Mel's - in fact they apparently got together in just the last month. There is nothing like talking to the guys who have walked the talk. You might find it interesting that Mel's 27 Magnum weighs in at 4300lbs with engine and empty fuel tanks - that is almost 2000lbs lighter than most from my understanding. He honestly does not know why it was laid up so light. Another interesting note is that he admitted that moving the fuel tanks under the cockpit floor was a mistake - he would have left them under the cabin floor if he had known the resulting light bow problems while racing it in rough seas. Bill

Oh...right, Mel....yeah, lots of experience with a single 27 Sport.

As far as light layup...I've heard a few stories about some early Sports being pretty light...maybe they'd do it for some race customers...

scippy
05-28-2009, 11:40 AM
[quote= The man has a great wealth of knowledge about what I need to get this boat running 70+MPH - all fairly affordable. I felt much better about the whole single engine idea after talking to him - :yes: Bill[/quote]

Bill, could you share a little of that wealth? I'm curious as heck as to what
single power would be fairly affordable and (also) get the heavy side of a Magnum to 70+............................................... .Thanks

Conquistador_del_mar
05-28-2009, 10:19 PM
Bill, could you share a little of that wealth? I'm curious as heck as to what
single power would be fairly affordable and (also) get the heavy side of a Magnum to 70+............................................... .Thanks

Mel said he got to 70+ with a simple 502/509 (.30 over 502) and Bravo drive. He got to a maximum of 84 with a 540 with Merlin heads, 12:1 compression pistons, and a Crane racing cam with the same Bravo drive and a Bravo 4 blade prop. Since his boat is so light, I was thinking that I would need about 600-650HP and a Bravo or equivalent drive. It won't be real inexpensive, but compared to making twin engine packages, it will. I will get more tips and post them later. Bill

mphatc
05-29-2009, 09:44 PM
Bill,
Nice progress! I to have been hard at work on mine . . but little time to share the work . .
You asked about covers for the fuel tank gages, my boat has two very nice chrome bezel glass covers screwed to the wood as you described. I'll post some pics as mine are off the boat right now as I also just replaced my floor panels over the tanks. Seems as though they used a nasty adhesive for the carpet, yikes, it's almost easier to grind the stuff off!
The bulkhead forward of your tanks, is that original? the opening is so small . . Curious, as my boat came w/o that and I had to replace it to support a sagging deck pulled down by the rear stanchion of the lifeline.
Can you tell who made your fuel level gages? One of mine has a cracked screw on cover and consequently won't allow me to seal the sender . . obviously a safety hazard!

Mario L.

1968 Magnum 27
1969 Corsican

Conquistador_del_mar
05-30-2009, 01:17 AM
Bill,
Nice progress! I to have been hard at work on mine . . but little time to share the work . .
You asked about covers for the fuel tank gages, my boat has two very nice chrome bezel glass covers screwed to the wood as you described. I'll post some pics as mine are off the boat right now as I also just replaced my floor panels over the tanks. Seems as though they used a nasty adhesive for the carpet, yikes, it's almost easier to grind the stuff off!
The bulkhead forward of your tanks, is that original? the opening is so small . . Curious, as my boat came w/o that and I had to replace it to support a sagging deck pulled down by the rear stanchion of the lifeline.
Can you tell who made your fuel level gages? One of mine has a cracked screw on cover and consequently won't allow me to seal the sender . . obviously a safety hazard!

Mario L.

1968 Magnum 27
1969 Corsican

Mario,
Yep, mine had a sort of reddish glue on the carpet, and it was a bear to chip off - maybe worse than the flammable yellow glue.
Yes, the bulkheads in mine are original, and I will be adding an extra support over the cabin. The cabin floor pieces are 6'1" long and a total of 54" from side to side. I doubt that I could fine some inspection covers like you have, but I would like to see what they look like. I can check on Saturday, but my memory is that the gauge floats are made by Rochelle. I will edit this post if they are another manufactured brand. Are you running your Magnum yet? Speed? Handling? Bill

Edit correction: The fuel gauges are made by Rochester.

mphatc
05-30-2009, 08:45 AM
Bill,
did you say running . . ? sadly no, my business is busy, so in this economy that has been the focus, I get 1/2 a day per week for the Magnum . . :frown:
This week I get a whole day to play!

here's a brief list what has has been done . .
made new floors for the fuel tank covers, same size as yours.
replacing all the fuel lines and redoing the fuel tank grounds.
Rebuilt both Volvo drives and the intermediate shafts, this is worth a separate thread with all the old Volvo drives on this board.
Removed the head and repaired the thru hull port from that install.
Built the new bulkhead and raised the deck.
Replaced both shift cables.
Had the upholstery repaired . . did I ever post pics of what this boat looked like inside when I bought it?? :eek::eek::eek::eek:
Refinished the drives in epoxy and a Volvo white
Removed the old Vee windshield and am waiting on my new acrylic to show up. I'll build a windsheild similar to the new Banana 24.
One engine is still out, today I am replacing the drive bellows and sealing up the transom.
The old trim tabs have been removed and for now I'll install a larger set of Bennetts as I have them.
and lastly I had all the chrome items replated, and moved my red and green nav lights to the very front of the deck.
two new blower motors . . need to share with folks how I mounted these, very simple and clean! and cool!
I'll try to post some pics on another thread to not derail this thread. and will post pics of the fuel sender covers for you.
Got to go, I have a boat calling!
Mario L.
1968 Magnum 27
1969 Donzi Corsican

mphatc
05-30-2009, 09:01 PM
Bill,
Below is a picture of what covers my fuel level senders. Made by Perko!, but apparently not made any more.

Mario L.

Conquistador_del_mar
05-30-2009, 10:02 PM
Bill,
did you say running . . ? sadly no, my business is busy, so in this economy that has been the focus, I get 1/2 a day per week for the Magnum . . :frown:
This week I get a whole day to play!

here's a brief list what has has been done . .
made new floors for the fuel tank covers, same size as yours.
replacing all the fuel lines and redoing the fuel tank grounds.
Rebuilt both Volvo drives and the intermediate shafts, this is worth a separate thread with all the old Volvo drives on this board.
Removed the head and repaired the thru hull port from that install.
Built the new bulkhead and raised the deck.
Replaced both shift cables.
Had the upholstery repaired . . did I ever post pics of what this boat looked like inside when I bought it?? :eek::eek::eek::eek:
Refinished the drives in epoxy and a Volvo white
Removed the old Vee windshield and am waiting on my new acrylic to show up. I'll build a windsheild similar to the new Banana 24.
One engine is still out, today I am replacing the drive bellows and sealing up the transom.
The old trim tabs have been removed and for now I'll install a larger set of Bennetts as I have them.
and lastly I had all the chrome items replated, and moved my red and green nav lights to the very front of the deck.
two new blower motors . . need to share with folks how I mounted these, very simple and clean! and cool!
I'll try to post some pics on another thread to not derail this thread. and will post pics of the fuel sender covers for you.
Got to go, I have a boat calling!
Mario L.
1968 Magnum 27
1969 Donzi Corsican

You have been busy, Mario. What size Bennetts are you going to use? Here is a link to the Rochester fuel gauges that I found. Bill

http://www.rochestergauges.com/Pages/PDFs/8200.pdf

Conquistador_del_mar
05-30-2009, 10:03 PM
Bill,
Below is a picture of what covers my fuel level senders. Made by Perko!, but apparently not made any more.

Mario L.

Yep, I have been looking around for something like those. My boat did not have them. Thanks, Bill

smidgen too
05-30-2009, 11:20 PM
Bill,
Below is a picture of what covers my fuel level senders. Made by Perko!, but apparently not made any more.

Mario L.

Try this place http://www.marine-sales.com/contact.html they have many hard to find parts not just Chris Craft . I sent Jeff [HallJ] over there and he found a deck bubble for his Magnum. :yes:

Conquistador_del_mar
05-31-2009, 10:32 AM
Try this place http://www.marine-sales.com/contact.html they have many hard to find parts not just Chris Craft . I sent Jeff [HallJ] over there and he found a deck bubble for his Magnum. :yes:

Thank you for the link.

Conquistador_del_mar
06-01-2009, 07:59 PM
Bill,
Below is a picture of what covers my fuel level senders. Made by Perko!, but apparently not made any more.

Mario L.


Try this place http://www.marine-sales.com/contact.html they have many hard to find parts not just Chris Craft . I sent Jeff [HallJ] over there and he found a deck bubble for his Magnum. :yes:

It took some serious checking around, but I found and have some new sight glass covers coming. Bill

Conquistador_del_mar
06-05-2009, 01:19 AM
It took some serious checking around, but I found and have some new sight glass covers coming. Bill

I got the fuel tank inspection plates in the mail today. They are chrome plated brass with the lens and nicely made pieces. I believe they are the exact same measurements as the originals. Bill

mphatc
06-05-2009, 05:32 AM
Wow that was fast, Good for you Bill!

So now that you have 2 27' boats needing work, which one will splash first?

Mario L.

Conquistador_del_mar
06-05-2009, 10:39 AM
Wow that was fast, Good for you Bill!

So now that you have 2 27' boats needing work, which one will splash first?

Mario L.

Mario,
Funny you would pose that question - I have been trying to figure out my best course of action. I learned years ago that trying to complete two or more projects at the same time is not wise for me - I am a project oriented guy who needs to get things checked off my list of things to do or I don't feel like I am getting anywhere. Right now, I am inclined to stick with the Magnum. I am actually beginning to see light at the end of the tunnel with the Magnum even though most people who have seen it think I am nuts when I tell them it should be done later this year. How is your Magnum progressing? Bill

Conquistador_del_mar
06-08-2009, 06:50 PM
I now have the boat stripped down to pretty much the bare hull. I am trying to figure out how I want to build up the cockpit floor area. If I ever want to be able to stand while driving, there will have to be a lowered area in the driver position since the original floor height is so high. At first thought, I was going to lower the entire floor, but that will not work without sacrificing the stringers which provide the main longitudinal strength. I am now comtemplating building a drop down box area under the driver which would drop the standing area by about 9". If I install drop down racing bloster seats at the right height, I could sit or stand in the recessed area. I am thinking about making the drop down area have a hinged floor level plate that could either be at regular floor level or flipped out of the way for standing purposes. It could flip forward or backwards, letting me stand on the lower floor by almost 9" difference (a huge difference). I could do the same thing on the passenger side. I had in mind some seats similar to this type. What do you think of the concept, keeping in mind that I really like to stand while driving in rough water? Bill

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CUSTOM-BOLSTER-RACING-SEAT-WITH-DROPDOWN-CUSHION_W0QQitemZ130303002682QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBo at_Parts_Accessories_Gear?hash=item1e56aa083a&_trksid=p4506.m20.l1116

smidgen too
06-13-2009, 01:09 AM
On my Magnum Sport even though we had the center fuel tanks there was just enuff room for a 10" deep foot well. With that and the bolster you felt like you could run in any water conditions..:kingme:



quote=Conquistador_del_mar;518156]I now have the boat stripped down to pretty much the bare hull. I am trying to figure out how I want to build up the cockpit floor area. If I ever want to be able to stand while driving, there will have to be a lowered area in the driver position since the original floor height is so high. At first thought, I was going to lower the entire floor, but that will not work without sacrificing the stringers which provide the main longitudinal strength. I am now comtemplating building a drop down box area under the driver which would drop the standing area by about 9". If I install drop down racing bloster seats at the right height, I could sit or stand in the recessed area. I am thinking about making the drop down area have a hinged floor level plate that could either be at regular floor level or flipped out of the way for standing purposes. It could flip forward or backwards, letting me stand on the lower floor by almost 9" difference (a huge difference). I could do the same thing on the passenger side. I had in mind some seats similar to this type. What do you think of the concept, keeping in mind that I really like to stand while driving in rough water? Bill

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CUSTOM-BOLSTER-RACING-SEAT-WITH-DROPDOWN-CUSHION_W0QQitemZ130303002682QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBo at_Parts_Accessories_Gear?hash=item1e56aa083a&_trksid=p4506.m20.l1116[/quote]

Conquistador_del_mar
06-13-2009, 10:31 AM
On my Magnum Sport even though we had the center fuel tanks there was just enuff room for a 10" deep foot well. With that and the bolster you felt like you could run in any water conditions..:kingme:

How did you modify your sport to the side by side bolster seating with no back seats? Was your bow deck extended back or was your engine compartment extended forward? Did the center driver straddle the center 18" stringer or did you cut that down? I am still at the point where I could radically change the cockpit. Thanks in advance, Bill

smidgen too
06-14-2009, 09:54 PM
How did you modify your sport to the side by side bolster seating with no back seats? Was your bow deck extended back or was your engine compartment extended forward? Did the center driver straddle the center 18" stringer or did you cut that down? I am still at the point where I could radically change the cockpit. Thanks in advance, Bill
Bill,, My sport had the stock deck & cockpit just like Li'L SMIDGEN.. Wally Harper built the first extended rear hatch that went over the rear seat area. The hatch was a little heavy but looked cool, thats why we put her on my Mag. The guys at Cherokee boats here in Michigan made a mold of that hatch, and made them lighter . When Li'l Smidgef became Seminole Sprit she had the new lighter one. I made the center steer dash, and yes The driver did straddle the center 18" stringer with foot wells on ether side of the stinger. I also cut the back seat out and that made working on the engines easier.. When I made back into a pleasure boat I just cut out part of the hatch, put the rear seat back in and left her a center steer.:cool: When I sold her she went back racing, and they fixed the hatch back as it was. :wink: As I said you could run in any kind of water.:shocking:Back in the day these Magnums ran 100+ mile races OFFSHORE, not like today. Unlike what some say on oso about sitdown seats, your legs can take more of a beating than your lower BACK !!!
Also here are a few pics of my Mag with the full hatch back on.

Conquistador_del_mar
06-15-2009, 02:10 AM
Bill,, My sport had the stock deck & cockpit just like Li'L SMIDGEN.. Wally Harper built the first extended rear hatch that went over the rear seat area. The hatch was a little heavy but looked cool, thats why we put her on my Mag. The guys at Cherokee boats here in Michigan made a mold of that hatch, and made them lighter . When Li'l Smidgef became Seminole Sprit she had the new lighter one. I made the center steer dash, and yes The driver did straddle the center 18" stringer with foot wells on ether side of the stinger. I also cut the back seat out and that made working on the engines easier.. When I made back into a pleasure boat I just cut out part of the hatch, put the rear seat back in and left her a center steer.:cool: When I sold her she went back racing, and they fixed the hatch back as it was. :wink: As I said you could run in any kind of water.:shocking:Back in the day these Magnums ran 100+ mile races OFFSHORE, not like today. Unlike what some say on oso about sitdown seats, your legs can take more of a beating than your lower BACK !!!
Also here are a few pics of my Mag with the full hatch back on.

Great! I now see what you did. As you saw in OSO, I gained a 8.25" drop in the secondary floor where you had 10". Since I will be carrying passengers occasionally, I will be staying with the back seat even though I like your layout. I will also stay with a right hand steer, but I think I will be mounting the steering wheel a little to the left side of the console center so it will be straight ahead of me as I stand on the lower floor which has the constraint of the starboard secondary stringer (forcing me to stand a little towards the center of the cockpit). Yes, I agree that my legs can take much more pounding than my back, and I enjoy the slightly better vantage from a higher view than seated. I guess some might think my idea stinks, but I know what I like from past experience. The concept of having both a seat and a standing position can be done if I have figured the layout correctly. I feel like I am starting to get somewhere now. I really appreciate your input, knowledge, and experience. Bill

olredalert
06-15-2009, 07:59 AM
------Bill,,,It would be difficult to have more experience and knowledge than Smidgen Too. He has definetly walked the walk. See you next Saturday, Mark........Bill S

smidgen too
06-15-2009, 09:47 AM
------Bill,,,It would be difficult to have more experience and knowledge than Smidgen Too. He has definetly walked the walk. See you next Saturday, Mark........Bill S

Thanks, Cant wait to see the Fino..

smidgen too
06-15-2009, 10:01 AM
Great! I now see what you did. As you saw in OSO, I gained a 8.25" drop in the secondary floor where you had 10". Since I will be carrying passengers occasionally, I will be staying with the back seat even though I like your layout. I will also stay with a right hand steer, but I think I will be mounting the steering wheel a little to the left side of the console center so it will be straight ahead of me as I stand on the lower floor which has the constraint of the starboard secondary stringer (forcing me to stand a little towards the center of the cockpit). Yes, I agree that my legs can take much more pounding than my back, and I enjoy the slightly better vantage from a higher view than seated. I guess some might think my idea stinks, but I know what I like from past experience. The concept of having both a seat and a standing position can be done if I have figured the layout correctly. I feel like I am starting to get somewhere now. I really appreciate your input, knowledge, and experience. Bill
In my old Mirage I had the bolster with the seat drop out,, the best of both worlds.

Conquistador_del_mar
06-15-2009, 12:20 PM
In my old Mirage I had the bolster with the seat drop out,, the best of both worlds.

Mark,
Thanks again for the picture. That is exactly the type seating I plan to incorporate with a little higher backs on the seats. Bill

Conquistador_del_mar
07-11-2009, 09:09 PM
Considering that I was out of town moving my mother for a week and the 100+ degree days down here in north Texas, I have been sort of slow on the Magnum project. I finally built, glassed, and painted the subfloor so I can stand while driving. Tomorrow, I should build the main floor, and then I can get to the engine room stringers. I will be cutting out some panels in the main floor that will hinge out of the way when I want to stand. Here are a few pictures from today. Bill

donzi2287
07-12-2009, 01:29 AM
VERY nice job!!

smidgen too
07-12-2009, 10:58 AM
Considering that I was out of town moving my mother for a week and the 100+ degree days down here in north Texas, I have been sort of slow on the Magnum project. I finally built, glassed, and painted the subfloor so I can stand while driving. Tomorrow, I should build the main floor, and then I can get to the engine room stringers. I will be cutting out some panels in the main floor that will hinge out of the way when I want to stand. Here are a few pictures from today. Bill
Thats a great idea for the floor. Is that gel coat or paint, looks good.

Conquistador_del_mar
07-12-2009, 12:23 PM
VERY nice job!!

Thanks, Eddie


Thats a great idea for the floor. Is that gel coat or paint, looks good.

The subfloor panels (13/16" plywood) were beveled on the outside bottoms to follow the hull angle and coated with resin on the bottom side before I installed them on a bedding of resin paste followed by double glassing the meeting surfaces. The meeting edge at the keel stringer were first screwed down every 4" to the 2x4"s that were bolted through the keel stringer for that support of the subfloor. The cross members were triple glassed on both sides before I could install the sub floor panels - notice that I left at least 1.5" clearance below the cross members for the bilge water. Before I reinstalled the fuel tanks, I cleaned out the original tubes that run under them to the cockpit so any water can escape all the way from the most forward area ahead of the first bulkhead all the way to the back of the hull. I had to cut out the original 6 gussets that were randomly glassed to the inside of the outside stringers under the cockpit, but I figure I more than gained that support back with the new cross members and subflooring. I didn't need to paint what I did since it is all covered in resin and glass and will be covered in flooring, but I did it for me to clean up the look as I continue. I used a professional grade gloss exterior enamel - rolled on (I probably should have rolled on gelcoat) - :nilly:. I have not decided if I will carpet or use another material on the subfloor and main floor, but I am leaning towards a pigmented thickened gelcoat that I would apply with a textured finish or a rubberized pigmented material similar to Rhino liner. I will have to decide before I can secure the main floor since the subfloor will have to be done first. I will be drilling a couple drain holes in the subfloor and coating them also. When I finalize the engine compartment stringers, battery hold down plates, cross members, etc., I will be gelcoating all of it with white for a clean look. Onwards, Bill

I should add that I jumped up and down on the subfloor, and it is solid as a rock!

Conquistador_del_mar
07-13-2009, 07:37 PM
Today, I drilled and installed lifting eyes in the transom so that I could lift the boat on my overhead trolly chain hoists to move it around. The transom had been replaced with a fresh one with no holes when I bought the boat. I was shocked to find that the outer layer of glass on both sides is .6" thick. I have never seen such a beefy outer layer on a transom before. Bill

Sweet Cheekz
08-10-2009, 03:09 PM
Bill
Just spent some time reading this whole thread and I am very impressed with your progress and great ideas! Well done I look forward to the final outcome as I am sure it will be impressive. Did you ever figure out the hin thing? Just curious.
Parnell

Conquistador_del_mar
08-11-2009, 11:45 AM
Bill
Just spent some time reading this whole thread and I am very impressed with your progress and great ideas! Well done I look forward to the final outcome as I am sure it will be impressive. Did you ever figure out the hin thing? Just curious.
Parnell

Parnell,
I have been side tracked by quite a few other projects, but I am slowly getting things done on the Magnum. No, I never have found the HIN number, but I will be going back to that since I want to get the title work done before I go much farther with the boat.
Just yesterday, I bought 1/2" thick walled copper tubing to use as my gas lines from the forward tanks to underneath the floor to the engine compartment. They will be secured with ss clasps with the rubber liners to the center keel stringer. When I install the main floor, I do not want to ever have to have a problem with them or I would have to cut up the flooring. My 1971 18' Donzi used a copper fuel line that is still intact, so I figured that it was a good choice.
I have made the floor panels with the step down cutouts so I am about ready to install the main flooring. I glassed additional supports for the drop down seats along with the lips for the cutouts and the back attaching pieces which will be screwed and glassed to the back 27" of flooring and brushed on a heavy coat of resin on both sides. I had to make the front 4' of flooring in two pieces to be able to fit into the cockpit - they will be attached at the 4" wide flooring plate mount at the top of the center keel stringer along with the other mounting pads and then glassed down at every outside edge. When I bolted the 2x4s to the outside stringers and the back crossmembers to support the floor, I used a straight edge to get the supports just right for a nice level floor - including across the top of the center stringer mounting pad.
I have a racing engine mount coming which will mount between two engine stringers I have made, but not installed. They will be placed 33" apart to accomodate the engine mount. I am getting somewhere, but it is going slower than I had hoped. Thanks for the encouraging words. Bill

Sweet Cheekz
08-11-2009, 07:45 PM
More well done work! How come you did not lower the floor for the back seat out of curiosity? Are the tanks always in the place yours are just forward of the drivers bulkhead? How mant gallons is the standard tanks? I don't remember you saying what drive you are going to use for this project Thanks
Parnell

Conquistador_del_mar
08-11-2009, 11:52 PM
More well done work! How come you did not lower the floor for the back seat out of curiosity? Are the tanks always in the place yours are just forward of the drivers bulkhead? How mant gallons is the standard tanks? I don't remember you saying what drive you are going to use for this project Thanks
Parnell

I made the drop down areas for the driver and front passenger only if they want to lift the main floor plate out of the way to step down about 8.5" for standing. Otherwise the floor will be at the regular height. I saw no reason to drop the back seat area for any passengers. The recesses can also be used for storage as they are 4' long. Magnum typically mounted the two 50 gallon tanks (standard size) under the floor of the front cabin, although many have tried under the main floor and even in the engine compartment sides with mixed results (sometimes a combination of 2 locations). From what I have gleaned from talking to others is that up front makes the best sense for pounding waves. The tanks have 3 baffles built in to help stabilized the gas. Right now I am still leaning towards a Bravo III drive with the counter rotating props to help eliminate the need for external steering, but I also have a TRS speedmaster II drive that might be used as a sort of retro bullet drive. Quite honestly, I have not finalized the drive plan. Bill

Sweet Cheekz
08-12-2009, 08:04 AM
Thanks for all the info and continued success in your resto Keep the updates coming
Parnell

Conquistador_del_mar
09-06-2009, 10:36 PM
I have had my time stolen by too many projects recently, but I have managed to get a little work done on the Magnum. I finally decided to line the subfloor with truck bedliner rolled on for good grip and water resiliency. I have made the main floor pieces and run the copper 1/2" fuel line secured to the center stringer under the subfloor with ss clamps with rubber liners. I will make the aft portions of the fuel lines and attach them to the manual fuel block crossover with filters that I put together before installing the rear section of the main floor which is also made. The crossover will only be accessible from the engine compartment or by reaching under the rear seat to the back side of the engine compartment bulkhead on the bottom of the rear seat. I almost broke down and installed a motorized fuel crossover switch, but I could not justify the expense since I will be running from both tanks most of the time. Onwards, Bill

Sweet Cheekz
09-08-2009, 12:29 PM
Well done Bill
Do you have any idea where to get the compass that is mounted to the deck? Posts for the deck? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
Parnell

Also I don't know if anyone has asked this or posted this but it seems mine had 4 forward tanks for fuel Was that normal? The forward two were removed Thanks

Conquistador_del_mar
09-08-2009, 12:43 PM
Well done Bill
Do you have any idea where to get the compass that is mounted to the deck? Posts for the deck? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
Parnell

Also I don't know if anyone has asked this or posted this but it seems mine had 4 forward tanks for fuel Was that normal? The forward two were removed Thanks

Parnell,
What compass does yours have? By posts for the deck, are you talking about the lifeline posts on the deck? Bud Weisner (Mr. Vinyl) told me he has a line on where to get replacement lifeline post hardware. Where exactly were your fuel tanks located? I believe the only two that the factory would have installed are two 50 gallon tanks under the floor of the cabin. Did yours have two more in the next bulkhead section forward of the cabin bulkhead? Maybe Aaron or Mark can chime in here. Bill

mphatc
09-08-2009, 01:00 PM
Nice Progress Bill!
Just how do you chose which boat to work on??? :wink:
My Magnum 27 has two tanks located like Bill's .. AFAIK this is the stock production set up . . there have been posts on other forums where some boats had tanks loacted aft under the cockpit floors for racing, but thta the best blance seems to be from the forward stock location.
Bill, I'm curious, your floor cutouts . . . will you be able to stand on two feet and still be centered behind the steering wheel location, or are you locating that more towards the center line?
The bow life line set up lower stantion pieces are unique and I have not had any luck in fionding anything even close from the present manufacturers. Most are designed to run along the deck edge and have a 3rd support cast in where as the stock Magnum piece only has supports fore and aft. If you need pics, let me know. I just had mine replated and am completing installation.

Mario L.

1969 Corsican
1968 Magnum 27

Conquistador_del_mar
09-08-2009, 01:41 PM
Nice Progress Bill!
Just how do you chose which boat to work on??? :wink:
My Magnum 27 has two tanks located like Bill's .. AFAIK this is the stock production set up . . there have been posts on other forums where some boats had tanks loacted aft under the cockpit floors for racing, but thta the best blance seems to be from the forward stock location.
Bill, I'm curious, your floor cutouts . . . will you be able to stand on two feet and still be centered behind the steering wheel location, or are you locating that more towards the center line?
The bow life line set up lower stantion pieces are unique and I have not had any luck in fionding anything even close from the present manufacturers. Most are designed to run along the deck edge and have a 3rd support cast in where as the stock Magnum piece only has supports fore and aft. If you need pics, let me know. I just had mine replated and am completing installation.

Mario L.

1969 Corsican
1968 Magnum 27

Mario,
That has been a real problem for me recently - deciding what project to tackle next. With our Fall weather almost here, I have decided to concentrate on getting some of my boats out for my favorite boating season before the cold really hits. This means the Magnum will be put on hold for a while. Surprisingly, my wife really likes a 20' Wellcraft Elite that I really bought as an investment to sell for some profit - now it looks like I will have to keep it for a while. We cleaned it up and installed the teak wood that I refinished with Sikkens Cetol and fired it up last Thursday for the first time and it runs perfect - it has a few extras like CD player, Bennett tabs, new upholstery, and through hull exhaust. I can't say I only have $2000 tied up in any other of my running boats!
Yes, I will be able to stand right behind the steering wheel of the Magnum since the wheel is mounted to the left side of the dash console. I will be having the ss drop down wrap around seat frames custom made locally and have a local upholsterer make the seating. The floor panels that will open for standing should be plently large for standing where I need to be without being crimped. I spent quite a bit of time designing the whole setup to make sure it would work right. Bill

Sweet Cheekz
09-08-2009, 02:42 PM
Bill

The compass cutout and metal round container, for lack of a better word is mounted flush on the deck in front of the captains side fairing I have all the hardware except the compass itself Not sure if a regular compass will fit or what I have to start looking for. I was referring to the metal poles down the center, lifelines as you call them. I suppose I can have a set custom made, just wondered if they were custom made and if anyone had any.
I have two fuel tanks under the floor forward of the 1st bulkhead and then they put two more in front of the next bulkhead and then tore them out Graciously they left me the foam to remove One of my favorites ecspecially two bulkheads forward :nilly: I don't think 100 gallons is enough range for me and I am going to do the same thing you are with the floor leaving me little room aft for tanks.

Mario If you could get a couple of closeups of the poles and the ends were they are connected it would be greatly helpful. Thanks
Parnell

BTW Bill Just curious where are you going to put the floor inserts if you decide to lower yourself for a rough water blast? Did you design a way to attach them somewhere or just remove them from the boat for the day?

Conquistador_del_mar
09-08-2009, 07:07 PM
Bill

The compass cutout and metal round container, for lack of a better word is mounted flush on the deck in front of the captains side fairing I have all the hardware except the compass itself Not sure if a regular compass will fit or what I have to start looking for. I was referring to the metal poles down the center, lifelines as you call them. I suppose I can have a set custom made, just wondered if they were custom made and if anyone had any.
I have two fuel tanks under the floor forward of the 1st bulkhead and then they put two more in front of the next bulkhead and then tore them out Graciously they left me the foam to remove One of my favorites ecspecially two bulkheads forward :nilly: I don't think 100 gallons is enough range for me and I am going to do the same thing you are with the floor leaving me little room aft for tanks.

Mario If you could get a couple of closeups of the poles and the ends were they are connected it would be greatly helpful. Thanks
Parnell

BTW Bill Just curious where are you going to put the floor inserts if you decide to lower yourself for a rough water blast? Did you design a way to attach them somewhere or just remove them from the boat for the day?

I did not throw out the original lifeline stanchions that were in my boat when I got it. I have a different gameplan for this feature. You might contact Bud Weisner about where he found the replacements - budweisner65@yahoo.com
Your plan for the extra tanks sounds good. Yep, I figured you meant the ones that were taken out had been mounted ahead of the cabin bulkhead.
I am flattered that you think my idea with the subfloors is good. It is quite a bit of extra work, but I think they will be a great addition. The floor cutout panels will be hinged at the front of the cutout and fold forward to within an inch of the cockpit bulkhead. If they try to bounce up and down, I will devise a holddown mechanism. Bill

Sweet Cheekz
09-08-2009, 08:03 PM
Good? I think its a great idea. I am not sure how tall you are but my plan is to get them as low as possible and leave it that way since the boat does not set records for freeboard anyway. I suspect you are not sharing your new plan for the deck yet :confused:

I will give this guy a shout and see what turns up No thoughts on the compass?
Parnell

Conquistador_del_mar
09-08-2009, 08:32 PM
Good? I think its a great idea. I am not sure how tall you are but my plan is to get them as low as possible and leave it that way since the boat does not set records for freeboard anyway. I suspect you are not sharing your new plan for the deck yet :confused:

I will give this guy a shout and see what turns up No thoughts on the compass?
Parnell

I am 6' 2", but even a guy 6" shorter would benefit from a lower place to stand. Without the standup bolster seats, I would not drive it standing even with the lower floor level. If you are talking about making the entire floor lower, you will see that the outside stringers will limit the floor area and the bottom of the hull also restricts how low you can make it. There is also the center stinger which adds tremendous strength to the hull, and it comes up to the present floor level. I would think you can find a suitable style and size compass for the hole that was left. I will be having to totally reconstruct my console and dash, but that will be later down the road. Bill

smidgen too
09-10-2009, 12:25 AM
I am 6' 2", but even a guy 6" shorter would benefit from a lower place to stand. Without the standup bolster seats, I would not drive it standing even with the lower floor level. If you are talking about making the entire floor lower, you will see that the outside stringers will limit the floor area and the bottom of the hull also restricts how low you can make it. There is also the center stinger which adds tremendous strength to the hull, and it comes up to the present floor level. I would think you can find a suitable style and size compass for the hole that was left. I will be having to totally reconstruct my console and dash, but that will be later down the road. Bill

When the Anaconda Magnum was restored the whole floor was cut down 4", :eek: it looks great. :kingme: The top of the stock bucket seats are about even with the top of the sides.

Conquistador_del_mar
09-10-2009, 01:46 AM
When the Anaconda Magnum was restored the whole floor was cut down 4", :eek: it looks great. :kingme: The top of the stock bucket seats are about even with the top of the sides.

The look of the seats being even with the sides must give it a much better looking profile from outside the boat and a much better seating arrangement. That 4" is not much out of the center stringer, but it would be about half of the roughly 8" of the outside stringers. Out of curiosity, were any additonal stringers added or was there plenty of strength left? Do you have any pictures? Sounds like a nice setup. Right now it looks like my front seats will need to be about 4 to 6" higher than the sides of the boat to give it a safe wrap around me for standing purposes. Thanks, Bill

MDonziM
01-08-2010, 11:36 AM
Hey Bill,

Know you were busy with the cig, but any updates on the mag? Still looking for one myself. Snow and cold here, looking ahead to boating weather...

Marshall

Conquistador_del_mar
01-09-2010, 01:16 AM
Hey Bill,

Know you were busy with the cig, but any updates on the mag? Still looking for one myself. Snow and cold here, looking ahead to boating weather...

Marshall

Marshall,
No progress reports on the Magnum, but that should change soon. Keep your eyes on the other boats for sale section if you have any interest in a 28' Aero since I will be putting mine up for sale. It needs a complete restoration, but it has lots of positives going for it. Bill

MDonziM
01-09-2010, 10:32 AM
Thanks Bill, Pretty sure I want the pedigree but will certainly look at the aero when you post it. Be well, and get some sleep. - Marshall

smidgen too
01-09-2010, 08:27 PM
Marshall,
No progress reports on the Magnum, but that should change soon. Keep your eyes on the other boats for sale section if you have any interest in a 28' Aero since I will be putting mine up for sale. It needs a complete restoration, but it has lots of positives going for it. Bill
Bill when you restor & re rig them :nilly: they do clean up nice.. :yes: Mark

Conquistador_del_mar
01-13-2010, 07:18 PM
Bill when you restor & re rig them :nilly: they do clean up nice.. :yes: Mark

Mark,
That is why I bought it, but the reality is that I will not get around to doing it. Bill