16 runs 89 with 323 hp...

[go fast john]

Andy, don't mean to be rude, but why would you buy an outboard ? I own and have for sale my second Sweet 16, both have been I/O and both 1966 year models. I know they make chocolate and vanilla and again at all costs I don't wont to sound rude but the lines on a Donzi get attacked when you hang an out board on them not to mention the performance sacrifice ( I have gps'd mine @ 89 mph) Of course this is my opinion and we all know about opinions. If you haven't put your money down contact me and I will get you the info needed to see my 66 Sweet 16. It is just about perfect and I need to sale it. If you have gone too far with your purchase then welcome to the Donzi family no matter which Donzi you run you can't have gone wrong.

Regards, go fast john


************************************************** *****







Donzi 16 Outboard
Hello,

Please pardon the following duplicates an append I had placed in a prior thread, named "H.P. for 16' Donzi O/B."

-------------------------------------------

I am a new owner of a 1972 Donzi Sweet 16 Classic with a Johnson 150 HP Outboard. I live in So. FL, and I have not taken delivery yet, with the boat coming from NJ. I have 18.5 years power-boating experience (mostly high-performance PWC and one 120 HP Stingray bowrider). I am new to Donzi ownership.

I appreciate any advice about owning this Donzi model. Pointers based on real experience and lessons learned from a real owner would be best, if possible.

First initial questions follow. I am nowhere yet ready to implement these items, but am curious as hell.

Q1: How much outboard HP (and weight) can be installed onto the Sweet 16 hull?

Q2: If necessary, can the transom be reinforced for more strength to handle more power?

Q3: What are the physical limits of this boat, say when running WOT in flat water: hull strength, handling, porpoising, keeping the boat in the water, etc?

Q4: Thus, what top-speed is attainable with maximum power and how do I get there from here?

Q5: What other general advice about the Sweet 16 can people share? What hard-earned lessons have you learned? I am very interested in safety, usability, ergonomics, maintenance, etc., in addition to the performance questions.

Thanks in advance for any seasoned advice. Regards,
Andy DiSario
11351 Lake Tree Ct.
Boca Raton, FL 33498
561-479-0578

[HIGH LIFE]

gofastjohn, I bought mine for the power to weight ratio. Plus i was tired of being in the bilge, and not getting any younger !! How much H.P. do you have to run 89mph ! What drive ? How does the boat handle at speed ? Where do you boat ? HIGH LIFE

[go fast john]

gofastjohn, I bought mine for the power to weight ratio. Plus i was tired of being in the bilge, and not getting any younger !! How much H.P. do you have to run 89mph ! What drive ? How does the boat handle at speed ? Where do you boat ? HIGH LIFE

Hey High Life, I hope that all who read my first responce didn't take any offense to the way it read, sure didn't mean any. To answer your ouestions the Merc.(chevy 350) dynoed at 323 hp at 5500 rpm and I'm running an Alpha one ss out drive. I gotta tell you that at 89 mph the boat got very light in the water. I was in the San Jacinto river with perfect condtions but still had some juice when I pulled power. I'm trying to sale this boat I need the money more than I need (not want) the boat, it is a beautiful 1966 sweet 16 that has been 100% restored and there is no need to be in the bilge on this boat...Be in touch and stay safe on the water. go fast john...

[HIGH LIFE]

gofastjohn, No offence taken, whatever floats your boat,pun intended. If you run 89 w/323hp than I should put one of my 300 Pro Max's on the transom !!! Where is the San Jacinto river ? I live in Mass. I might have someone who needs a DONZI also, price--pictures ??? My email is mspirito2019@comcast.net.....Thanks, Michael "HIGH LIFE"

[Greg Guimond]

"go fast john" - that is hauling the mail in that hull for that type of HP. It would be great to see some photos. I have heard that the fastest 16 on this board is verified at breaking 100 on GPS.......power plant is TOP SECRET for that boat. Does your 16 have any modifications to the bottom?

Anyone else on this board have 16 Ski Sporters that have broke 90 ?

As to the O/B choice, I purchased mine because I had it when I was in college, so it was a fun walk back down memory lane with a fairly unique Donzi given the O/B powered rigs seem to number less than 200. Of course it is still an "eggbeater" as so affectionately referred to by many on this board!

[cutwater]

So, you dyno'd your engine at 323 hp. Which means you're getting maybe 295 hp at the prop. And you claim 89 mph?? Sorry, I don't believe it.

[Titan]

Does it have wings? I had a 16' and had a reallly nice 350 done up, 10-1 flat tops, full roller top end cammed to the max, performer manifold and fully balanced. Never had it dyno'ed. This boat would run 65 MPH all day long and come close to 70 on a very good day. I'd like to know where the extra 20 MPH is coming from? How much current is on that river?

[HIGH LIFE]

I had a 18' W/351 Ford dyno @390hp and couldn't get past 70mph, guess I should have put my e-drive on it !! HIGH LIFE

[BUIZILLA]

paging Rootsy, Rootsy, Rootsy...

you got your ear's on ??

[go fast john]

WOW, Greg, Cutwater, Titan and High life, I hope all finds you well. I'll try to respond to all of you. You are so right it is hauling in the mail, my 16 was very light in the water at 89mph, I remember thinking any thing in the water could upset this boat and my next thought was the old agony of defeat commercial where the boat flips over backwards and that's when I pulled the power. I could feel the bow trying to come up, needless to say I never tried this again but three weeks ago me and a friend took it out with my GPS and got a hot but nice cruise at 67 mph and of course the boat was extremely stable. We were running against current in the same river and between the two of us we would be in the 425 lbs total range, also we had a cooler full of Bud light and around a half of tank of fuel. Last there has been no modifications to the hull, and the current was still and the water was perfect glass, I was in the down current direction though.
Cutwater, I don't know what to tell you, I guess believe it or not! A friend of mine and my mechanic propped this boat it is a 3 blade ss prop. but I don't know the pitch.
Titan, sounds like you had more done to your 350 than I did but mine will run 70 mph all day long and faster if you have the huevos.
The San Jacinto river where I live and mostly run is between Lake Conroe and Lake Houston, the river just above Lake Houston is a pristine boating area. Ya'll be in touch gofastjohn !

[cutwater]

No offense intended, it just simply does not seem reasonable from either a theoretical perspective or from what others on this board have experienced.

If you actually hit 89 mph with a fairly mild 350 then I will be very happy for you, but the fact remains... I'm having a hard time believing this one :wink:

[Greg Guimond]

Well "go fast john" it looks like you are in the penalty box. If you confess now you will avoid the 20 lashes that other 16 owners on this forum will no doubt be willing to deliver !

Does anyone on this board have a 16 that has GPS'd over 90 mph ?

[BigGrizzly]

Go Fast Jon, I sell props. I have built more racing engines the you have years of life and own 3 Donzis. One has a verifiable 690+ Hp engine, in a 22 and I am looking at 86+. I have an 18 with 0ver 350 Hp and it doesn't do 70. we Have a 1966 16 with a 302 and 225 Hp and does the mid 50s. I got my first Donzi in 1966 and still have it. So I have been playing this game for 42 years and don't have a stock engine is any boat. I am going to say and not politely that I don't believe you and neither does anybody else. The boating community is small and if you has a 89 mph 16 the Texas guys would know it. I would be surprised if you did 69 mph. Your name isn't triple digits is it? As for the out board and why did you buy it. I would like to have one too and I have three now. To dat there is only one t16 hat is over 80 with an outboard and only one 16 over 80 with an outdrive. Of course you turn a 26 pitch prop at 6000 Rpms too.

[RedDog]

... Your name isn't triple digits is it? ...

nah - his spelling is too good

[Greg Guimond]

So it looks like the "Rootsy" has the fastest documented 16 based on his words today:

81.3 GPS... best I ever saw out of it...

And some interesting data from another post:

problem with the 16 is chinewalk at high speed... this is due to various factory including CG, weight, bottom design, Length to beam ratio.. yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda... even in stock condition my boat sucked... a lot of this has to do with prop selection and drive depth... as you increase speed it gets more on the edge.. seat time will help you dramtically to conquer it. eliminate as much play as you can in the gimble... just for starters

a short drive such as an Alpha SS is an instant 7 - 8 mph increase.. my handling increased dramatically...

as far as HP.. well i have somewhere in the 400 or a bit more range under the hatch... with an alpha SS and a 4 blade and i've seen pretty close to the 78 mark... if i went to a 3 blade and i could hang onto it (it'd be a ride i think) i am 99.999% positive i'd eclipse the 80 mark... heck i might do it with the 4 blade with some more tweaking...

as far as building a sbc marine engine vs an auto engine... we can discuss all that later i reckon... i have to pack for AOTH now :

Great information on what a 16 can do !

[Donziweasel]

( I have gps'd mine @ 89 mph)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH- let me catch my breath, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA

I haven't laughed this hard since trippledigits. Gofastjon, you related to him? Do you run a specail blend of 5 oils in your drive? Where the hell is Rootsy? MP, keep an eye on this thread, it could get ugly.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. Wait a sec, let me wipe the tears from my eyes, ok, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

now that is funny!

[BigGrizzly]

I have actually been next to Rootsy in my Criterion with him at a cold Cumberland afternoon and he was winging along at 76+ by my GPS, against the wind. Knowing the man if he says he can do it then he can. He doesn't cheat on his girl and doesn't lie about speed and that is fact.

[Donziweasel]

Ok, I think I am done laughing for now.

Go90john, you just joined and this is your first post. I think you should go post the same thing on OSO. They are very kind people and very trusting. Please get back to us with thier response.

First, a stock 350 is either 260-270 (carb) or 300 (MPI). Even with an Arneson, it won't break 75 (well, maybe?). I think you should start over. Perhaps something like, "Hi, my name is Jon and I love Donzi's. I have a 16 that runs upper 60's with an SS. Just wanted to say hi and that I am glad I joined this forum"

Second, in your first post, I wouldn't attack an 16 outboard. They are classic Donzi's and that is enough said.

Damn, I spent 3 years getting from 47 mph to 60mph and all I had to do was buy his boat.

[Donziweasel]

Not to take ANYTHING away from DaRoot, but there actually is a 16 that was documented at higher speeds than his..

Is he Canadian and a boiler mechanic?

[Rootsy]

Yep North of the border has gone quite a bit faster than I have in a 16... I cannot claim any speed records... I don't think I'd want to run 89 in a 16... My 16 was enough... It was fun but I was sick of a puckered butthole every time I'd see a wave above 70 that wasn't head on...

Takes A LOT of horsepower to make a 16 go fast... More so than in an 18... put a 16 and an 18 side by side, same power, same drivetrain and the 18 will be a few mph faster... Ride will be dramatically improved also. But that's JMHO... I mean 80 in DougL's 18 is like sitting on the porch in your rockin chair sippin whiskey.

[ky-donzi]

""" I mean 80 in DougL's 18 is like sitting on the porch in your rockin chair sippin whiskey"""

Either I don't have big enough stones,, or haven't siped enough whiskey.... I sometimes get the pucker bung at 75 in a 18:shocking:

[Ed Donnelly]

go fast john; You say you are selling the 89m.p.h. Donzi?? How much???

I am just a dumb boiler mechanic that put a 1,000 h.p. twin turbo Gale Banks in my 16'. Had a pad and a step.. E-lower that was custom altered. hydraulic steering.. No gps as there was no gps back then.. Spent over 10 yrs of doing this and that to get a little over 10 m.p.h. more than your rocket ship..
radar only...There are pics of her somewhere on the registry...Ed

P.S. My idol is still and always will be Geoo, who did more with less
and WAY better handling

[handfulz28]

Please guys, pick another thread to pick on this guy's speed claim. The one thing not needed around here is a pissing match like all the other sites. Don't be led into the vicious circle of BS. It's bad enough he hijacked a perfectly decent thread with his negative comment about buying an outboard.

I believe the saying is:"Don't feed the trolls."

[Donziweasel]

What do you expect? He comes on here and in his first post, he bashes 16 OB's when the guy is simply trying to get some info and them makes a claim almost as ridiculous as Trippledigits. 89 in 330 horse 1966 16 with an SS is simply not possible. I will leave him alone since he seems to have disappeared. He acted like Sofa King and TD in the same thread.

Perhaps my reply was over the top. I would like to see a new thread in which this same claim is made and how he did it. I think it would be enlightening.

[mattyboy]

never saw Rootsy boat run in person just vids it was one of the fastest 16 around never saw Ed's but do have pics of it somewhere that was probably the fastest, ran alot with a 225-250hp baby ob alot and it suffered from the same handling quirks that my 67 did with a volvo and 310 hp there is also the lake winnie 16 with the blown sbc 700 plus hp and the extra long k planes that was a mid to high 80's boat that hung with the big boys at the winnie run a few years back there are alot of other things needed to run fast prop trim x dim then add the hp

[handfulz28]

DW, I know. But look what we've done. We turned a simple thread on 16 OBs, started by someone who not only is looking for info but actually owns the boat, into a pissing match of who has the fastest boat. 3 pages of boasting and defending, and NONE OF IT relevant to the topic. The guy is obviously a tool that gets off on getting other people's panties all bunched up. And then we end up talking to ourselves for 10 pages before someone realizes the douche is long gone. Ignore them and they go away quicker.

I'm passionate about this thread because I came across a 16 OB that seems interesting. I'm not the biggest outboard fan, but after all I've researched over the last couple days I'm really interested. I'm hoping the guy doesn't sell it before I have a chance to see it.

:anchor:
:anchor:
:anchor:

[mattyboy]

anyone interested in a 16 should really ride in one to get the feel for what they are they are a great boat a blast to drive but if you are looking for real fast and 18 or 22 might fit the bill better
the OB is not a magic speed bullet it suffers from all of the same quirks the standard 16 does to get it over 60 mph you have to be on your A game and stay there ever second at those speeds .
they do have that cool uncommon thing going for them
did the 16 got the t shirts and the bruises from the wife when she hit my right arm for scarring or bouncing her too much

[txtaz]

Matty is right,

16's are a blast to drive but require some talent at speed. I never had a Donzi 16OB. I had a Glastron Carlson 16 with a tweaked 140 crossflow and jack plate. It was extremely light at 60. Not sure how fast it went but you definitely trimmed down some at full power to get more hull in the water.

A buddy of mine who raced boats had an 18 Avenger with a tweaked 225. He could get half way on plane and nail it. The entire boat and motor jumped out of the water. Too bad Bob Smith retired and his kids didn't pick up the business. I would love to have one of those hulls.

I understand a lot of those hulls went to the west coast of Canada. Anyone want to keep an eye out for me?

Da Taz<---Ahhh remembering the days of clamp ons. Ohhh yeah 89 is BS.

[The Hedgehog]

Well "go fast john" it looks like you are in the penalty box. If you confess now you will avoid the 20 lashes that other 16 owners on this forum will no doubt be willing to deliver !

Does anyone on this board have a 16 that has GPS'd over 90 mph ?

I think that Ed Donnely may have. He said it was not a good experience. Said something about hopping rub rail to rub rail. It had BIG power. Banks twin turbo. Maybe he will say something. I will go dig around in my notes. Here is a quote:
"Ran great up to around 70 then did a chinewalk porpoise combo that you couldn't speed out of.
Two tricks worked though #1 slight turn to the left neutralized the combo
#2 get the passenger to lean right out of the boat and not hit his head on the waves.
Was radared at 103 this was long before G.P.S."

[smbarcelow]

Does anyone on this board have a 16 that has GPS'd over 90 mph ?

Mine GPS'd at 59 MPH early this summer when it was running well (at 4,900 RPM's). I've got a Chevy ZZ4 rated at 345 HP. I think that, with the right prop and a few hundred more RPM's, I might be able to bump up against 65.

[MOP]

See go fast john is real fast to leave that is! Adios BSA!!!!!!!!

[Greg Guimond]

Here is your requested Avenger ......

20' Avenger Tunnel - $3000 (Camarillo)

Reply to: see below
Date: 2008-09-09, 6:03PM PDT



Project boat...I am the original owner..It has spent majority on land never used.."1987" 200hp black max (modified 220hp) low hours. engine runs great(But recomend to replace stock steel reeds with fiber reeds).Have many new parts for boat you must install.New: Steering wheel,Gauge kit for hydrolic jack plate,Carpet,Fuel tank..All New floor installed,fuel tank is removed and new one ready to install.It has no seats in it, but I have all new marine plywood you can have. zeman sigle axle trayler included...Remember this is A Mod-VP (Tunnel Hull) The ride is Incredible. Have two stainless steel proppelers. Serious Interests only...PLEASE.... Call Mark @ (805)432-4144

[txtaz]

Hey Greg,

Thank you very much. I was really looking for a semi-V bow rider or closed bow. I'm pretty sure whatever I get will be a project boat since the last time I talked to Bob was about 10 years ago and he was retiring.

I look every once in a while to see if I can find one. However if I find my 22c first, the Avenger project will have to wait.

Hymmm, imagine showing up at a Donzi event in an Avenger. Might be fun. Ohhh yeah, I can hear RTSE's mind cranking now.

Da Taz<---"A rubber ducky Avenger...hymmm...I like the sound of that" and just think a bow rider would be easier to clean ducks out than a 22c. If anyone is curious just do a search on rubber duckies.

[Greg Guimond]

Like these ?

[txtaz]

Greg, Now that is sweet. Just like those.

Da Taz

[Donziweasel]

Here is Sam's performance post from 2004 on his 16-

1996 Sixteen Aniv Edition
350 SBC
Alpha SS
23" Hydromotive 4/blade
Best run to date 73.0 mph (gps) @ 5200 rpm

I would think this is a good comparison. Sam's boat is probably lighter because as I understand it, the newer 16's are a little lighter than the 1960's 16's.

Go fast, please explain to me how yours is almost 17 mph faster with the exact same boat and setup? We are not talking a couple of MPH, we are talking 17! Enough said. Please move on, nothing to see here.

[Greg Guimond]

Amazing information guys...........

Very good for a rainy afternoon. So the Rootsy 16 could do 81 GPS with 400HP and highly custom lower and stock hull and then the next jump was 99 Radar (Ed Donnelly) with 1000HP, custom lower AND highly modified custom bottom of Ed's design. It would be incredible if anyone had photos of those boats. It would be very cool to see the pad and step configuration of Ed's 16 as it sounds like both Ed and Rootsy no longer own those specific 16's. Were inner strakes extended on either of those hulls and did both run tabs?

Anyone out there have a currently owned 16 that breaks 90GPS?

[mrfixxall]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm! where's my boot's.and hes doing this through a volvo dirve with a alunimum prop too?

[The Hedgehog]

Amazing information guys...........

Very good for a rainy afternoon. So the Rootsy 16 could do 81 GPS with 400HP and highly custom lower and stock hull and then the next jump was 99 Radar (Ed Donnelly) with 1000HP, custom lower AND highly modified custom bottom of Ed's design. It would be incredible if anyone had photos of those boats. It would be very cool to see the pad and step configuration of Ed's 16 as it sounds like both Ed and Rootsy no longer own those specific 16's. Were inner strakes extended on either of those hulls and did both run tabs?

Anyone out there have a currently owned 16 that breaks 90GPS?

I have seen a photo of Ed's boat. It is something else

[handfulz28]

I'm hoping the guy doesn't sell it before I have a chance to see it.

Not my luck. So who acquired themselves a '75 16 OB from Wayne in Stuart,FL? He said it was somebody in the nearby vicinity. Congrats to the new owners.

Many thanks to the board gods for cutting and pasting the discussions into two threads. Glad my Gator chomps are taken in good spirits. :yes: :anchor: :yes: :anchor:

[TREYSTJOHN]

Gentlemen,

I read this with intrigue assuming no-one would lie while using the term GPS..Thus my findings in reading the fine/missing print are ....89mph down river....67mph up river....average 78mph...subtract "variant river factor" of 3-5mph and behold 75-72mph.....still pretty good and about correct for set-up...

Side note ... drove a 1969 16 full built solid cam 12.5:1 351 w/port NOS though an E-drive once after tuning for customer... flat water off bottle 78 with some walk..on bottle hell walk so bad I couldn't look at the Nordskog (which had been calibrated with stalker radar)....the owner claimed it would do 93-95, just don't know...and didn't want to find out

[TREYSTJOHN]

Gentlemen,

I read this with intrigue assuming no-one would lie while using the term GPS..Thus my findings in reading the fine/missing print are ....89mph down river....67mph up river....average 78mph...subtract "variant river factor" of 3-5mph and behold 75-72mph.....still pretty good and about correct for set-up...

Side note ... drove a 1969 16 full built solid cam 12.5:1 351 w/port NOS though an E-drive once after tuning for customer... flat water off bottle 78 with some walk..on bottle hell walk so bad I couldn't look at the Nordskog (which had been calibrated with stalker radar)....the owner claimed it would do 93-95, just don't know...and didn't want to find out

[Greg Guimond]

Agree .........GPS = Gospel

My simple question is are there any CURRENT 16 owners with any power that have broken 80GPS ?

[Donziweasel]

:)Currently, I do not know of any. Rootsy disassembled his and sold it. Ed got rid of his years ago. Of course, there is probably a couple lurking about somewhere.........:eek!:

From what I have gathered, you need four things to get there. 1. over 400 hp. 2. a more hydrodynamic drive than a stock Alpha. 3. Probably a raised X. 4. A HUGE set of stones!:eek!:

[BigGrizzly]

Not to spoil anything, there is a member with an OB that just might soon break that 80 mark. BTW there was a OB Donzi that was quite a bit higher, many years ago ( not stock power)

[smokediver]

my 16 with 430 ish horsepower ran between 72-74 depending ...didnt have an ss , just a gen2 alpha ... 89 is hard to believe ..

[BigGrizzly]

Smoke I was wondering if you would chime in or if you were off to Texas.

[mattyboy]

here is the mythilogical beast
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=26017

[DONZI]

here is the mythilogical beast
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=26017
Yup,that one hauled azz !
Let's not forget this one also .(pic's below)

[mike o]

Is the white build in the back ground the sagamore hotel on lg?

[wrussellw]

:)Currently, I do not know of any. Rootsy disassembled his and sold it. Ed got rid of his years ago. Of course, there is probably a couple lurking about somewhere.........:eek!:

From what I have gathered, you need four things to get there. 1. over 400 hp. 2. a more hydrodynamic drive than a stock Alpha. 3. Probably a raised X. 4. A HUGE set of stones!:eek!:

This works for a that little extra when you are going to get passed. Learned the hard way to drop a little tab and lean the boat to starboard first.:shocking:

I have a remote switch to open the ski locker and a separate arming switch under the dash to prevent unintended use.

[BigGrizzly]

MikeO yes that is the Hotel

[mike o]

MikeO yes that is the Hotel
I sell boats to their son who has a shop in bolton landing. I have never seen the hotel when I deliver the boats to the store....

[mattyboy]

Kenny

that is bill nagy's 16 it is the fastest ford powered 16 around it was a high 70's boat i think he got 80 out of it a few times let me see I have some pics of the power plant it is awesome

[mattyboy]

here are the business end of bill's boat

http://www.donzi.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=2775&cat=542&limit=recent

http://www.donzi.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=2774&cat=542&limit=recent

[smokediver]

Smoke I was wondering if you would chime in or if you were off to Texas.
Thanks Grizz , they have plenty of help there ...

[Lenny]

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1966-DONZI-Ocean-Racer-93427301

[glashole]

if he means to say kilometers he would be right on the mark

[BigGrizzly]

Remember this guy is a Texan(no offense to the rest of them) kilometers are only in the Army. This is coming from a boat dealer too! The guy is a legend in his own mind.

[TREYSTJOHN]

Wow, for 25k @ 89K, I would think it should at least come with some sort of extraterestial steering.....

[BigGrizzly]

God I hate that prob thing:wink:

[Ranman]

The real deal. Yessir, that is a blower motor in a 16.

[Carl C]

we had a cooler full of Bud light I can't believe no one picked that line up and ran with it!:wink:

[mattyboy]

The real deal. Yessir, that is a blower motor in a 16.


has anyone seen it around is it still up in winnie??

[Ranman]

has anyone seen it around is it still up in winnie??

Haven't been ot Winni in several years so I coudn't tell you. That was the fastest 16 I've ever seen or heard about.

[Carl C]

We were ignoring the OBVIOUS troll Carl..


It's the subtle ones we tend to crush folks on ;) :D lol, OK, enough said on that! I never mean to troll. Really, I love you guys.:propeller:

[mattyboy]

there was a camp fire story that someone ran across it up at lake champlain or lk george or some where up there a year or so ago it was after a run and a few cold ones and a few mighty mouse stories that someone had seen a 700 hp blower in a 16 maybe it was 100 islands not sure but you can imagine the embleshment of the story i guess that is how urban legends come about

yes i would imagine that would be the fastest 16 and one of the fastest classics around

[Greg Guimond]

I am new to all this but it is amazing that of all the current 16 owners on this board that not one has GPS'd at 80MPH or better. I mean it is the longest running production hull in boating history, correct? Many camp fire stories as Matty says, but nothing that is under current ownership with big power.

What ever happened to "GoFastJohn"? I guess the title of this thread should be changed!

[Donziweasel]

I am new to all this but it is amazing that of all the current 16 owners on this board that not one has GPS'd at 80MPH or better.

Greg, I think you don't quite know what it takes to make a 16 go fast. First, LOTS of money. Second, engineering and raised X. Mucho hp. There are restrictions on engine size due to bildge size (it is only a 16 ft boat). It isn't that easy.

Lately there has been a lot of attention on the ZX boats which some members have running over 90 mph.

Also, it seems in the last year the 22 has grown more popular that it's smaller brother.

[Greg Guimond]

"Donziweasel", thanks for the comments. I understand the challenges, both technical and skill related, associated with the 16 but given that folklore had 16's going 80MPH plus I was just surprised that no current owners were doing it. That is why they call it hotrodding after all.

New thread title ...........

16' Classic hull can't break 80 GPS ......

Maybe "GoFastJohn" will approve !

[mattyboy]

I am new to all this but it is amazing that of all the current 16 owners on this board that not one has GPS'd at 80MPH or better. I mean it is the longest running production hull in boating history, correct? Many camp fire stories as Matty says, but nothing that is under current ownership with big power.
What ever happened to "GoFastJohn"? I guess the title of this thread should be changed!
the 16 is not the longest running production boat in history it is not even the longest donzi in production that title belongs to the donzi 18 classic it is not really amzing that there are not a ton of 80+ 16 out there yes there were some and that blower 16 is still out there but to be in the 80+ range the 18 and more so the 22 will be a better base platform the 16 is a great capable boat but it has it's service evelope and once you get it powered up to go 80+ you'll find it is a bear to work on as DW said plus if it is not a 2+2 seating it is not going to be a comfortable ride at those speeds any way for any passengers, there are 16 out there with big power you just assumed all donzi owners are members here that is not the case
the 16 is what it is a great sport ski boat as it was designed back in 1964 that can handle moderately snotty water pretty well and can run around in the mid 60's fairly easily once you get up above that it is an all consumming project you must be ontop of it every step of the way

[Donziweasel]

you'll find it is a bear to work on

You ain't kidding. Greg, don't know how much you have messed around in the bildge of a 16, but is not fun. Been there and done that. It is TIGHT at best. My power steering pump pulley is 1/4 inch from my bulkhead.

As Matty said, it has been done, we know what it takes, and there are better platforms out there to go 80+ with the 18, 22's and even ZX's.

If you want to buid a 80+ mph 16, go for it. There is plenty of info here on how to do it.

FYI- I am running probably 300 hp due to altitude and getting a solid 60 mph. Imagine what it takes to go 20+mph faster.

[Greg Guimond]

"mattyboy", thanks for the correction as I thought the 16 was a longer running production design then the 18.

[mattyboy]

the 16 was dropped from production in 1980 and was not brought back until 1990 so the 16 was started first in 1964 the 18 was started in 65 but the 18 was never dropped from production there is also a rumor that the 16 and 18 were dropped from production by OMC as they wanted to replace them with the 4winns U boats but that is not true as the Uboats were built after OMC had sold to AMH so they were not replacements but built to try and compete with the 16 and 18

[BigGrizzly]

Actually the hull is different on the earliest 16 then now, ours being the early version. As for speed, the aspect of the 16 vs the 18 is a deciding factor except for Rootsy, Most give up and get a 18 or 22 before going to more power. The longer the boat the better control and balance. For those of you who don't know even a 22 at 80 is not an easy task to drive. I know I have one and I have all the good stuff on it. At 85 it takes 110% concentration, make no mistake it will tire you out. I am not a novice at speed on boats, cars and motorcycles. I will tell you this I have no want to do 100 mph in mine or any other 22. As I tell every body my boat will do 86 mph, with me driving. Will it go faster, as for the public to know no, only my wife knows for sure.

[mattyboy]

Grizz,

yes I didn't mean to make it sound like a 22 at 80 is a cake walk yes it takes skill and concentration behind the wheel my point was more that the bigger boats handle more speed better and as i would say the 22 has it own service envelope as well , granted it is more than a 16 but shy of what a zx or zr service envelope is

[BigGrizzly]

Matty I did not make that post for you, I did it for others. You have been around the block more than once:eek!: Some people think you just bolt in HP and go:shocking::shocking::shocking:

[Donziweasel]

Kinda where I was at. I went from 47 mph to 60mph. Cost me 6,000.00 (tweaking original engine, and then new engine). I had a choice, either try and go big on the 16 or bump up in size. One of the big reasons was the bidge in the 16. Didn't want o have to work in such confined space. Plus, a SC wouldn't fit without mods to the hatch. Can't find an SS, 16 just didn't coem with Bravo's, etc..... Making a 16 go fast is a PTA and expensive.

Figured the 18 had bigger bilge, more stable, better for speed overall.

[mike o]

but...alot of good info has come this thread.:wink:

[Greg Guimond]

Hearings over on the Hill. Ouch. All valid points ........no one ever argued that a longer boat is easier to put bigger power into and easier on your Grandma's kiester and your own skinned knuckles. Thanks for all the feedback from the 1,000 post plus crowd as I am just figuring all this stuff out.

New thread to be started soon.........

16' Classic hull can't break 80 GPS ......

[handfulz28]

16 w/blower...ask and you shall receive...

http://spacecoast.craigslist.org/boa/852442704.html

[Rootsy]

Thar be the mysterious winni 16....

[zelatore]

You know, I understand the desire to be different and do something nobody else has....

But just looking at those pictures is painful. I can't even begin to imagine what a PITA it has to be to do ANY work on that thing.

And I used to wrench on Italian cars...I know a thing or two about tight access.

[mattyboy]

i didn't want to give the impression that it was not a real boat, just that over time the stories have grown
now it is in fla you know what that means yes salt water so it is even faster now ;)

[BigGrizzly]

Matty that is very true in Florida ( except for Poodle or BUIZ, they just deal in facts)and in Texas they are bigger and in Jersey they all have an attitude. In Georgia, If you pass a Bass boat, you are a 100mph sail boat " Sh it ya'll went over 100":boat:

[Magicallbill]

Grizz;

Hope all is well with you and everyone else here on the site..

Randy(my tech) always told me that putting an Alpha on my 16 would notch it up some in the MPH dept...How much do you think with my engine?

For reference for everyone else, (Grizz knows the stats of this one.)

16 Ski Sporter (Jerry Eisele's old boat)
Volvo drive, 347 CID engine, approx 397 HP at 6000 RPM.
At a usable RPM (4500-5000) probably 300-odd HP at the prop.

I have had it radar-gunned at 62MPH at 4800 RPM with me driving and Jason riding, holding the gun..

[BigGrizzly]

Considering I had talked to your tech(Randy) and him describing the ride, I am sure it is not worth it. First Since you have the REAL horse power to turn that prop and that Randy was able to attain, remember over 70 mph. The Alpha is much weaker and prone to upper gear set breakage with the horse power you have and Rpms you turn. Look on the board and see the alphas that have broken and the cost. Next is the shifting, the lower gear set is poor at best. Road Trip(Jill's boat) Scorpion came apart with a bravo on it. and I don't think it is as fast as yours, but you know that because it was your boat. Next your originality go out the window. Nothing nicer then a 36+ year old boat that kicks azz. Now look what has to be done, redo the transom, move the engine get the Ford bell housing and set the X correctly. Now the economy, with the low slip of that prop, is outstanding. That prop is not like anything else. As for the real speed difference, that is debatable. Everyone is going to say it is narrower and more hydrodynamic. Well show me the numbers with a prop attached. Look at osr866 his shorty with its sleek design and known numbers of hydrodynamics and he went almost exactly the same speed after propping. CDMA , on his yellow 18, got rid of his Volvo , raised the X changed his drive what did he achieve. In my opinion-not enough. The only thing you will get is trim and mqaybe external hydraulic steering. If that is what your looking for then a 280 T or a 290 middle housing or a complete one will work, no filling the transom or moving the engine. The reason I went through the trouble for that prop is to avoid the outdrive swap. Hey They made me a one off, I did not need any more props. Bill if you want to spend money so much come down to Dawsonville with Jason and the boats and WE will have a mini Rally and we can do it during the week, you can buy dinner:cool!::bighug:. My take on this is leave good alone. Ask MOP, he has been around the block more then once. Your original 200 drive had a problem once after 36 years. Enjoy your self and what you have. I remember why you fixed that boat. After all this The answer is maybe 2 if you are really lucky. Rebuttals, if you havn't done this with exactly the same engine, conditions and steering your opinion is subjective and not objective (GPS comparisons are mandatory). Remember most people ditched the Volvo because of prop availability, Remember!

[Magicallbill]

Thank You Sir..

All good info..I don't REALLY want to do it..Everyone on this thread has been talking about speed with the 16's, so I thought I'd ask.
I do appreciate the "authenticity" so-to-speak of the boat. An Alpha would certainly put a dent in that..I'll leave it be...

Hey, on mileage..

If I run in 'cruise mode," for extended periods (Jason too) I'm figuring 3-4 MPG with our rigs. With your prop, we can run 2500-3000, be in the mid-to-upper 30's and run all day on 1 tank.

[BigGrizzly]

Gee Bill, I was hoping to ruffle your feathers to get you and Jason down her for some real Donzi fun. The mileage you are stating is common tor that prop. Nice isn't it. Bill no problem, I had figured that would be your answer, but added all the info so you had back up for the non believers. Next time you talk to Randy give him my best. Good people like that are hard to find.

[Greg Guimond]

"Magicbill", I initially thought there were many of the little 16's that were set up to go fast as well, but it looks like there are no currently owned and operated 16's that can break 75 on GPS. The few that did break 75 were at least 15 years back from the sounds of it.

I tried to contact the 16 that had the blower on it but have not been able to get a return call so far.

Not sure if that boat sold but would certainly like to find out !

Many comments about why an 18 and a 22 are better overall hulls, can accept bigger power, and are easier to work on but that was not the intention of the start of the thread back when GoFastJohn brought forth the BS 89MPH claim that fired this thread.

[BigGrizzly]

I can pretty much tell you that bills is in that 75 mph range. When I talked to Bill's tech he was twisting 5800 and wanting to still go.

[Magicallbill]

Yeah, Grizz and Randy have discussed the speed on mine and I'm going by their estimates..
I don't run it that fast because of the possibility of the Volvo flying apart and the handling problems associated with the 16 hulls in that speed register.

Randy and I blew up the 200 Volvo that was on it when Jerry had it on our initial test run.
I did the math and came up with the following formula..

Volvo blows= months of down time in summer while Randy tracks down replacements.

One thing I might also add..With the engine and Grizzly's Solas 23 the boat has incredible mid-range accellaration. It isn't near as fast as some boats on this site but it'll get there in a New York Minute..

Grizz, I'll talk to Randy tomorrow and give him your regards...

[mattyboy]

go fast john; You say you are selling the 89m.p.h. Donzi?? How much???
I am just a dumb boiler mechanic that put a 1,000 h.p. twin turbo Gale Banks in my 16'. Had a pad and a step.. E-lower that was custom altered. hydraulic steering.. No gps as there was no gps back then.. Spent over 10 yrs of doing this and that to get a little over 10 m.p.h. more than your rocket ship..
radar only...There are pics of her somewhere on the registry...Ed
P.S. My idol is still and always will be Geoo, who did more with less
and WAY better handling


thought i would post this pic Ed sent me sometime ago for some of my research this is the bottom end of Ed's 16 with the pad and the edrive for historical reference