Cumberland Poker Run Crash

[tamburello]

I was over on OSO and saw that Kevis Sellers the owner of the Pammy boat was killed today at the Lake Cumberland Poker Run. I only met him once but he was a nice down to earth guy.

Tony and Cherrie know Bob Luellen, one of the Smoke on The Water Poker Run organizers, and we were offered a ride on Pammy at the 2006 event. Kevin gave us the ride of our lives at 130+ on Lake Michigan and graciously answered all of the technical questions about his rig that we could fire at him.

It's always a sad day when we lose a member of the powerboating community, especially in a tragedy like this. Our thoughts and prayers go out to all involved.

- Jeff

[Patti]

How horribly sad...prayers to his family and friends..

[chappy]

:garfield:

Sad day.

[cutwater]

Ugh... :garfield:

Very sad indeed.

[roadtrip se]

A bad day for performance boating.

The rumbles are that they swerved to miss a spectator boat.

Jill and I decided to watch from land today at Cumberland Point, which is on the last turn into Conley Bottom.

The boats never came. Very sobering.

[Tony]

Wow...very sad.
Thoughts and prayers to his family and friends.

[Donziweasel]

It seems to me that Poker Runs are getting too dangerous. In the last few years I have heard of more accidents in Poker Runs than Off Shore Racing. Sad to hear about his death.:garfield: Sounds like he was well liked and respected.

[onesubdrvr]

First off, my sincerest sympathy to the friends, family members and boating community in general for this terrible loss.

NOT THAT THIS IS THE CASE AT ALL HERE, BUT it seems to me that these very fast and dangerous powerboats are like children, you don't have to have a licence to own or run one, but there are lifes at stake every time it's on the water. Unfortunately there are people that have more money than sense, and run these boats in an unsafe manner, or with a lack of experience in a 100mph boat. That being said, that would explain some of the significant difference in casualties in offshore racing vs. poker runs - the race drivers have typically been in boats for a long time. 2nd, with the offshore races, there is more safety precautions in place, and a controlled course keeping spectators away from the fast boats. Regardless, just some observations regarding a couple possible reasons between the difference in these types of accidents between racing and poker runs.

But again, back on topic, this is truly a tragedy, and will keep all those affected in my thoughts and prayers.

Wayne

[DonziFreak]

I have to agree with Wayne about the diffrence in racers and poker-runners....and like he said, I'm sure inexperience isn't the case in this one, but a lot of other accidents seem to be of people that, like he said, "have more money than sense."

My thoughts and prayers to all those affected by this tragedy...May he poker run in peace.

[roadtrip se]

and I quote from a respected gentleman who run's the tow service here:


"My son was on a spectator boat about a hundred yards from the accident. The fellow was attempting to pass the boat in the lead. The Skater came down "wrong" on the starboard rear and began to chine walk. The starboard bow dug in to the water, which broke the hole throught the hull you see. That water forced through the starboard sponson like a cannon and blew out the transom. The weight and drag caused the boat to flip over, throw the occupants out and take on water. It partially sank, leaving only 12 feet of the bow above the water.

We put a line on the bow, in case the boat tried to go to the bottom. We then towed it very gingerly over to the bank, trying to keep what little air that was in the hull, in there. We raised it using 5 airbags, once it was at the shore. The boat had to be towed on the airbags because the hull is so badly damaged there is no way it will float. There is major structural damage, as you may have guessed.

I have heard the passenger has an issue with his knee, where it contacted the boat during the accident and other bruises from hitting the water. He is very lucky.

Some of the very first people on scene were spectators. One was a trained paramedic. They worked extremely hard on the driver and didn't stop all the way to Jamestown.

Thank you to all of you that kept your boat wakes down while the divers were in the water working on the boat recovery. We tried to get it done as quickly as possible. Thank you also for your patience at the Jamestown ramp. I had the let the water drain out of the boat before going up the hill.

It is a shame, but it was truly just an accident. It was not due to anyone in the way, or any other avoidable situation. Sometimes it just happens. Fast boats and water are sometimes unpredictable. It is part of it. The other thing is, the driver passed away doing something he loved. While his passing is tragic and he will obviously be missed, you still have to keep that fact in mind. There are a lot of worse ways to go in my opinion. RIP.

Don"


This poker runner was a tenured and very experienced boat driver. Not a nouveau riche, inexperienced egomainiac.

I am actually relieved that the boat wasn't full of people and a spectator boat did not cause the accident.

It was purely an accident and it can happen to anyone.

Hearing from Mick last night about their incident on the LEOPA run was just too much of a coincidence. I have never heard Mick sound like he did last night.

I personally take a significant amount of heat for preaching safety around here and at our rallies. I will not run in another organized rally where everyone isn't in life jackets, tethered to the boat, insured, and sober.

Valuable lesson to be had here.

More info and pics here:

http://lakecumberland.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=20824&page=3

[sweet 16 1966]

May he rest in peace. We all find much joy in running our boats. Poker runs will always push our limits and care must be taken to lessen the chance of an accident. I am not the fastest by far but the danger is always there. We all can learn from this.

[DonziFreak]

Roadtrip, I agree with you in some way, but in my honest opinion, and I'm sure others are gonna grill me for this....

Going 130 in a non-capsuled boat is almost like asking to kill yourself. I race for fun, but I won't even do over 80 in a pleasure boat of ANY kind, no matter what. There is a HUGE diffrence betweem racing and going 130 MPH in a poker run. You honestly can't expect to do those kinds of speeds with nothing more than a lifejacket and hope to be ok in a major accident like this....

If your going to do those kinda speeds, do em in atleast a capsuled boat with a 5-point harness, race jacket, race helmet, with a oxygen system...theres a reason why us racers wear all that stuff....

It was a tragic accident, and in no way am I attempting to say he wasn't a capable driver, I just feel that the industry is lacking behind on safety for the public....

[DonziFreak]

If the description of the accident is correct, and the sponson got a hole blown in it, followed by water blowing out the transom, all a canopied boat would have accomplished is killing the passenger also.

Poodle, I gotta disagree with you.... In accidents like this, being strapped into a 5-point harness in a canopied boat probaly would have saved the driver, not killed the passenger...

Usualy, in a situation like this, either hitting the boat upon ejection, or the force of hittin the water at such high speed is what kills you...being strapped into a boat makes all the diffrence because it allows the hull to take the brunt of the impact for you, while keeping you from being hit from a possible ejection, so a canopied boat with race-buckets and 5-point harnesses would have made all the diffrence, assuming they wouldnt have been knocked unconsious

[Conquistador_del_mar]

My thoughts go out to the friends and family.
We all enjoy things in life that have inherent dangers. This was apparently a control issue accident which ended tragically. Anyone running the kinds of speeds that many of the poker run boats do are aware of the dangers, but this is what they enjoy. We had a tragic poker run accident here at Lake Texoma a couple years ago which took the lives of 5 participants so the poker runs will not happen here again anytime soon from what I have heard. I took this picture a couple weeks ago at my neighbor's business of one of the two boats involved here at Texoma. Tragic accidents unfortunately occur. Bill

[roadtrip se]

doesn't exist yet, so the capsule versus canopy debate, while interesting, is just a debate.

One thing that I don't want to lose site of is that a lot can happen at 70+, where we run on average, just as it did to the Skater at 130.

And, we run completely exposed, more so than any open air PR boat, period.

Not trying to be morbid, but I hope I never see a scenario unfold like this at one of our runs.

The passenger in the Skater is probably alive, because they were floating in a good lifevest after all hell broke lose.

Plenty to think about...

[Magicallbill]

This is a bad summer on Cumberland..
Roadtrip, I don't know if you heard, but a 35(I think) Baja rammed one of the islands at the mouth of Beaver, killing the driver and critically injuring the girlfriend.
Incident happened at nite, guy was running at fairly high speed..drinking was a POSSIBLE factor(still under investigation, I think,).

Sad stuff in both cases..

[DonziFreak]

Roadtrip, the point I'm trying to get across is that theres a reason why racers use so much safety gear! And to somewhat imply that just because they are "pleasure boats" that a good lifevest is all thats required is, as far as I'm concerned, nieve.

Whether your doing 130 in a race boat or 130 in a pleasure boat, the risk is just as great IF NOT greater in the pleasure boat, which means just the same amount of precaution, if not more, should be taken when getting into a boat that is going to do those kinds of speeds....

[roadtrip se]

DF. I'm not interested in making this arguement about racing vs poker runs, or canopies vs capsules. Very few of us are running in this world.

This was an accident. I don't think any amount of safety gear would have made the circumstances much different here. BTW, I have seen racers die inside of canopy boats with tons of safety gear. Corpus Christi and Jack Carmody are still very vivid in my mind from several years back.

Bill, the Baja accident here was totally avoidable. Running at speed at night, alcohol or no alcohol, is just a recipe for disaster. Especially with the fact that no GPS shows Cumberland accurately at this time with the lowering for the dam work. Totally insane.

I do think that our community can learn from things like this and we should, by mitigating our risk through the liberal use of jackets, safety tethers, and no alcohol until back to the pier. If something happens, we know we did everything we could to keep people safe.

[tamburello]

It's interesting how the same debates eventually surface after an accident like this.

I have very limited time in boats that can run 70+ mph. In fact, the only time that I've ever been over 70 on a boat was when I got a ride on the Pammy Skater that crashed at Cumberland with Kevin at the wheel and running the sticks. I figured it was probably the only time that I would ever get a ride on a boat of that caliber so I was paying very close attention to all of the details of the ride.

We ran maybe 20 miles at cruising speeds of 85-90 with a burst to 133 in 1-2 foot chop on Lake Michigan. From a first-hand perspective, riding in that cat at triple-digit speeds is a night and day difference from my experience running my 18 on the same water. In my 18 at 60 I am able to look ahead, read waves, and adjust my throttle and trim settings to adjust the angle of attack and speed for the oncoming waves. Running at speed in my Donzi I have a chance to slow down and trim in if I see a set of rollers approaching. At 130, from my limited observations, you set the boat up for the overall conditions and you react to the waves after you hit them. From what I saw running at those speeds you are crossing the water too fast to read and fully react to the oncoming waves unless it's a really big rogue. Instead you are letting the spanning length and lift from the hull carry you over the changing water surface and you are adjusting wheel and throttle input based on how the boat is reacting. Connie, one of our resident cat enthusiasts, was explaining at the last AOTH about using steering input to rebalance a cat that tipped up on a sponson.

While it is likely that the occupants of a pleasure boat with a capsule or full canopy will provided at least a modicum of added protection in a crash, the bottom line is we are running on a constantly changing liquid surface that we have no control over. Whether running 60 in a Donzi or 150 in a cat the water can reach up and grab you unexpectedly throwing your boat out of shape. The faster we go, the less forgiving the water is when things get out of control. In my humble opinion from what I've read of eye witness accounts on the various boards combined with what I know of the hull and the driver this was a freak accident that wasn't attributable to driver inexperience, an obstacle, or a lack of caution.

The canopy/capsule on fast V's and cats has been debated before. That debate could go on indefinitely just like the banter about props, windshields, gear oil, etc. Ultimately it's the guy writing the check that has the choice wether to run under a lid or in the open air and either way there is a risk attached. Kevin knew the risks and had seen them first-hand. He was the first on scene at the Smoke on The Water accident.

The bottom line is circumstances out of his control ended the life of a fellow powerboat enthusiast and from all accounts, including my brief acquaintance, an all-around great guy. He didn't know me from Adam and he still welcomed me to join him for a ride and seemed to genuinely enjoy the opportunity to share his passion for the sport with me, that counts in my book.

R.I.P. Kevin.

- Jeff

[catch 22]

Very well said Jeff.

[chappy]

Very well said Jeff.

Agreed.

[roadtrip se]

Jeff.

[kramsay1234]

Had some people I know involved in a bad crash in a boat called United Nations a few years back in a poker run around Orillia. Just hit a wave wrong and caught a sponson and luckily no one was killed. They were doing near 100 mph at the time. Couple ended up in the hospital, one more serious than the others. He doesn't really have the same interest in poker runs anymore. Wife and a baby took priority.

But accidents do happen in anything and my prayers to the family and all involved as well. Very tragic.

[Donziweasel]

Sounds like he was running too fast for conditions with the trim set too high.

[roadtrip se]

It was at the shop that did my drive work. They were pickling the engines and trying to salvage whatever else they could. Complete and total mess.
Both outside header sets are on the bottom of Lake Cumberland, as they got ripped off by the force of the accident. Both front seats were tossed from the boat. The holes in the front and back of the boat show just how hard water really can be. It's a miracle anybody survived this.