blowers - - -

[zelatore]

I've been thinking.... my Donzi's been far too reliable this last year and I haven't blown nearly enough money on it. Time to do something about that!

And what I want to do about it is a blower. :hyper:
After all, I've never had a supercharged anything. This is a horrible oversight in my gearhead resume that needs to be remedied post-haste.

So the question is what's the general thinking on available blowers? I see lots of centrifugal units - mainly Prochargers. But I also see quite a few Whipples out there. Zimm for example was running one.

For reference, I'm looking at a stock 502 with about 140 hours. I've just picked up a Stainless marine exhaust for it, but otherwise everything is stock. And yes, I'm figuring on a steering system as well.

Anybody care to comment on the pros/cons of each unit? Or throw out another suggestion?

My understanding is both offer a lot of bang for the buck on the top end, but the Whipple has much stronger low and mid compared to the centrifugal units. And a strong mid-range would be great. After all, you can't fly around at 80 mph all that often, but you can run from 40 to 60 pretty much every time you hit the water.

Talk to me guys....

[BUIZILLA]

but the Whipple has much stronger low and mid compared to the centrifugal units. And a strong mid-range would be great. After all, you can't fly around at 80 mph all that often, but you can run from 40 to 60 pretty much every time you hit the water..... you just answered your own question.. :angel: :pimp:

[BlownCrewCab]

Before I Supercharged the Ol Crew Cab, I weighed all my options, Turbo, Centrifigal, Roots, etc. Turbo and centrifigal can make more peak power but don't excell in the Low / midrange. The roots Rotor blower Makes power everywhere and will put a smile on your face that will be hard to remove. Low end (Kicks Azz) Mid Range (Kicks More Azz) Top end, Kicks Azz But can be exceeded by other models that don't shine in the Low/Mid department. But Like you said, How often do you go WFO! I'd give up a few MPH to have Azz Kickin MidRange (Oh, And I Mean Azz Kickin)

[mphatc]

zelatore,

and for all the money you spend on a blower and the subsequent engines for the Donzi you can have a nice BMW M3 as a dedicated track car! :eek!:


What am I saying??? :shocking: this is a Donzi board :doh:

Mario

[SilverBack]

I run a M-3 Pro-Charger but I would suggest a whipple if you are starting from scratch. The Pro-Charger is great for high horsepower applications but when you run lower boost numbers it doesn't spool up as much in the mid range. Hedge Hog and I have both had to run more boost than we started out wanting to. We do both have bigger heads but at the lower boost levels at 5500 rpm's the supercharger is not doing much at all at 3000-4300 range. When you prop up for the higher horse power and faster speeds it is hard for the motor to do it's thing at lower rpm's. I had to learn that the hard way!! Mark Boos told me that Keith Eikert had some of the same troubles with some huge horsepower setups. They just didn't make enough mid-range horsepower.

If you are staying completely stock other than the blower and just doing exhaust I guess either would be fine. I think that you would be happier with the Whipple though.

[ky-donzi]

I did a procharger on mine.... There are two schools of thought and you addressed them.

One way to over come the "top end only" power of a procharger is to under prop it. I kept the 25p (factory) prop on my boat for a while,,,, and man you can tell it supercharged then.... it is unbelieveable with the 25 on it, I didn't really gain that much top end with the 25, (compared to non-superchared) but i get there ALOT faster.

I like the better tuning (whipples re-mapin the ecm) of the whipple, but whipple didn't make a unit for my boat

[zelatore]

OK then...seems we have a consensus. And that almost never happens!

I've been trolling around OSO where a couple whipples are listed but sold. There's also an older side mount whipple that I haven't called about yet but may. All things being equal, I'd go for the top mount if just because it looks cooler. It appears to also offer better access as it pretty much just replaces the stock intake.

I'm keeping my eye open - and if any of you see one floating around for an '01 502 Mag let me know!

[BigGrizzly]

I am the only board member that has had both Wipple and Procharger in my immediate family. And as for low end power on a boat application the auto theory of more bottom end is negligible especially considering you are on the world's largest water break dyno. First the wipple isn't a blower such as a 671 or the Weiland 250, it just doesn't have the same bottom end. Besides on a routs blower bottom end is around 2500 rpms in most cases. Next the thing that KILLS drives is the dead stop to top speed acceleration. If you prop both boats to the same top end I don't think you will see a big, if, any difference. When I take people for rides and bounce them off the mid 80's all they say is what great acceleration it has, not anything on the top speed. When passengers road with my son then with me they say my acceleration is better. Funny thing is that I never snap the throttle WFO. I have a well set up Procharger and. my son had a wipple on a zx. Now the support thing I have always had good support from Procharger, not the best in the world but much better then Wipple. My son's ecu went back to Wipple three times and twice it came back in a engine won't run condition. Finally I got some well known people involved ang got one that worked not good but worked. We ended taking it to Mark Boos to fix the boat. Now I do think the Wipple has a little more bling and both units fit well. There is also another player and it is Vortex. These guy do really well too with support up the gazue. The other thing people who do really big power don't use either of these.

[zimm17]

I went for the whipple over a centrifical for three reasons.

1: Looks- the whipple looks soooo much better.
2: I spend so much time in the bilge, I took a look at Jim's (Catch 22's) setup and couldn't figure out how'd I squeeze down under the motor on that side. :)
3: I had a carb and wanted to swap to EFI- the whipple was the easy way to do all that.

My drive has survived so far by only using 3000rpm to get up on plane- then I roll into the throttle. Too bad my sketchy 454 rebuild only held up for two seasons... but it'll be back with a new 502 when I get back from tour in Hawaii.

I wouldn't go for a side mount whipple. Mine's an older 2.3L unit, but it's working just fine.

Don't forget all the extras: larger fuel line to big fuel pump, boost referenced regulator, return line back to tank (I Teed into my vent line for the tank), boost and fuel press gauges, recommend an oil temp gauge, full hyd steering, and a bigger prop (talk to griz).

But like you, I had never had anything supercharged before, and the pride of ownership is overwhelming when you pop the hatch...

[BigGrizzly]

Zinns unit is good looking for sure as for the bilge. The madd poodle got into mine and even got out an d I have a lot of stuff on that side besides the blower too. Mine is a carb unit.

[undertaker]

Zelatore.....he ya go....:propeller::propeller:

http://www.offshoreonlyclassifieds.com/whipple_supercharger_99_02_502_mag_mpi-o23895-en.html

[yeller]

Snap it up zelatore! Looks like it's complete and for your motor as well. DOOO IIT!!

To bad you weren't thinking blowers in Powell. I would have let you drive mine to see what you thought. I've never ridden in a whipple Classic so I don't know how much more mid they have over procharger, but I can tell you that mine is WAY better than stock. Believe me, if you go procharger, you WILL notice a difference.

That being said. Stop looking and guessing which one is better......just buy the damn whipple on OSO :yes:

[zelatore]

I emailed him last week. sold.
There's another one up there as well for a few $$ less. Also sold...

[zimm17]

Oh man, that sucks. That black one was the newer model with the sight glass for the oil.
I paid $5000 for the same thing but polished and with the distributor, fuel pump, and regulator.
I'll attach some photos of my blower install so you can see how it goes together. Also where I put the fuel pump, regulator, and the return line going into the top of the vent line.

[yeller]

.. but it'll be back with a new 502 when I get back from tour in Hawaii.Glad to see you're going to keep it Zimm. That boat was a steal for the 20k you were willing to take. I actually discussed it with wife about buying it. In the end we (well she :wink:) decided not to risk getting stuck with 2 boats.

zelatore, something will show up. Keep looking, you won't be disappoint you went SC

[kramsay1234]

If you end up getting one I want to know everything about the install and the ease of setup/use. I have also decided that if I am going to supercharge in my future that it will be a whipple. Right now I am still enjoying the boat in its stock form. I had those Whipples on OSO in my favorites for the longest time.

I have just not put enough hours on yet to need to make this change. But since we have the same motor and will use the same blower, your experience will be of great interest to me.


I emailed him last week. sold.
There's another one up there as well for a few $$ less. Also sold...

[zimm17]

Yup, I'm keeping it. I had a couple of people look at it. Best offer was $17k- no thanks, I have more than that in just parts! Plus the boat and a new trailer? And I just got a V8 4runner to tow it when I get back from hawaii. (Sold the diesel monster truck).

I had a slight typo in my above post- My whipple is the older one without the sight glass and some other items are different on it like fitting locations, etc. It still does the job though- can't notice it at idle, at cruise (45mph) it's actually pulling vacuum, so no boost, then you hit the throttle and get the blower shreek/scream and you get pinned to your seat. :propeller:

[zelatore]

Kramsay- Yeah, I saw those on OSO a while ago and didn't move on them until recently...you snooze, you loose I guess.

Zimm- 45 mph cruise??? Come on now...I cruise faster than that with my stock 502! Of course, cruising at 4000 rpm doesn't do much for economy or peace of mind...and with a blower I could spin a bigger prop and keep the same speed w/lower RPM at cruise. See - this is an economy thing! :wink:

[SilverBack]

I know that you are thinking Whipple and that will be fine but the Pro Charger will not be making a lot of boost down at 3500 rpm's. That is why I would go with a Whipple if I had it to do over. If you are like me you will spend a lot more time between 3500 and 4500 then you will between 5000 and 5500.

Good luck!

Shop around..I have gotten quotes from 5500 to 11,000 for the same 3.3L whipple. Know exactly what you are getting if you buy used. You may be buying someone else's headache. I bought my prochager used and got a great deal on it but it has cost me more than if I would have gotten a brand new kit and still had money left over.

[zelatore]

I'm thinking whipple, but keeping my eyes open for whatever comes along. Yeah, I'm probably going with a used unit, but I'm a little skittish. I've bought a lot of used stuff ranging from heads to whole cars (even my 22) on-line without seeing the stuff in person...sometimes you get burned to be sure.

(Want me to tell you why you shouldn't buy an Alfa Romeo in NYC...what was I thinking? NYC is the least car-hospitable place I can think of!)

So if anybody sees something pop up - let me know!

[ky-donzi]

I bought my used at half the price of new. It was complete, minus a adapter due to a different year engine.

I bought used because I was uncertian how I would like the set up and.. If I couldn't get it to preform right I would resale it.

I wouldn't rule out procharger... because it is highly lickly you will find one of the whipples as cheap as a procharger. I haven't ridin in a whipple, but I do consider them supior.... With that said... the procharger is still very very noticeable compaired to stock

[zimm17]

Well 45mph at 3200rpm if I remember right. I'm over 50 at 3500 rpm- I don't "cruise" over 3500rpm. 4000 is around 70- it really starts ramping up when the boost comes on.

[catch 22]

I don't know if this is going to come out right, but here it goes...

I have a 98 22c 454 mag mpi with an M-3 Pro Charger.

I'm having a hard time figuring out the low end/mid range thing you guys have been talking about. Why would you want high boost levels at 3000-4000rpm's (cruise)?

I have not rode in a Whipple powered boat before, but I do know one thing, at 3000 to 4000 rpm's when I put the hammer down it goes and it goes right now.

I ran 5lbs of boost for 3 years till the warranty expired, then went to 7lbs. I didn't notice much more top end, but there was a BIG difference in mid range, a BIG difference.

I can go out for a ride and if I don't drive it like I stole it, it's pretty good on gas and there are days we go out for a ride and never get into the boost just cruise around.

I'm curious as to what you guys consider high horsepower/huge horsepower set ups. And for the Whipple if something happens to the blower itself you are dead in the water. With the Pro Charger cut the blower belt, and remove the hose from the intake and your good to go.

Here is my .02 cents the first pic is a real supercharger if you want it all. The second pic is my set up, and the third pic is a boat that if I live to be a 100 I will NEVER forget that ride.

If you want to talk about low end/mid range top end this boat had it all. Oh yeah it was PRO CHARGED. I wouldn't trade my Pro Charger for anything. It's been on for almost 4 yrs now without a minutes trouble. I like RELIABILITY. I want to thank GEOO for all the advice he gave me to get my boat to where it's at today.

[BigGrizzly]

I am going to jump on Catch22' band wagon. I have a 502 procharged engine with a TRS drive and transmission. I have well over 600 hours and it is 8 years old and I got it used. At 3,977 rpms it has 700lbs of torque at 2,300 it has over 500lbs. Its sister engine Has broken 11 Bravo drives in one month. Yes the guy sits fron a dead stop and gasses it and by by drive. % drives were brand new not rebuilt. the rest were rebuilt. My engine is a carb in a box unit. I run rather well for a 22 foot boat. As for looks I personally like a polished wipple. At this point my procharger is polished blower, inter cooler and box and does look pretty good. Once at Cumberland, I did jump on it too hard and by, by transmission. My son's wipple didn't have anything on me in the mid range. Oh yea one more thing, I run a closed cooling system and a 165 degree T-stat. Like Jim I would not trade it for a wipple. To qualify the stapement I am talking about the standard Wipple twin rotor like Zimm has not the quad rotor one and my procharger is the M1 not the M3 or M4. If you really want to bling a motor a polished quad rotor with CMI tube hedders chrom alternator, polished Keith Ekiert water pump and PS pump and a really good looking girl in the seat and Air22's trailer with Hot Shots hatch and color match it and stick it in Catch22's (Gina's) boat and it is bling city. At this point nobody will even care if it goes 80!:wink:

[ky-donzi]

I guess I should clairfy my post. I really like my procharger and like I said before ... Don't rule out using one becasue they make a tremendous difference"

But I like how the whipple is more properly tuned for a injected engine.

If you are going to go the used route it will probably be what you can find tho

[BigGrizzly]

KY, you ough to ride with Catch, his is injected, no black stuff on his transom and not because Gina cleans it. His idle is like a stocker. Jim's comment about driving it like he stole it, he does. Maybe he did steal it.:wink: I did know where you were coming from, you were pretty clear to me. My comments were for others, I have talked to you and think I know where you are.

[BUIZILLA]

And for the Whipple if something happens to the blower itself you are dead in the water. With the Pro Charger cut the blower belt, and remove the hose from the intake and your good to go.
not exactly right, I lost an idler pulley on my whippled Suburban in Manchester, TN, I used a shorter belt and bypassed the blower, and drove it 950 miles home.... pulling a 10k load enclosed trailer...

[catch 22]

Jim, You said you lost a idler pulley used a shorter belt and bypassed the blower or did you bypass the idler pulley and still use the blower? I'm not questioning what you did, just trying to learn.

[BUIZILLA]

whipple kit uses an additional idler, and also the stock idler that is repositioned, I lost the pass side idler pulley bearing, fell right off the bracket.... I used a shorter than stock belt due to the repositioned stock idler pulley, bypassing the blower... 454 TBI, ran 67-68 mph the whole way...

[The Hedgehog]

I have a Procharged setup. I am not sure about what exactly defines big hp but mine makes over 850. I have some friends that don't think you are there until 1,000. I guess that it is all relative. Point is that you can make great power with a centrifugal blower. Tuned right you will have a clean transom. The myth about lack of low end power is BS. Tex and I both have enough torque to smash XR's at will. Keith should too once his gets setup.

As for bling....well here you go.

Would I do a Whipple? Hell yes. A lot of that is that I like to do different things. Would I do another Procharger? Hell yes.

On thing, blowers rule.

[ky-donzi]

Hedge

What happened to the saying on your avitar

"If it aint blown, it sucks" that's a keeper

[The Hedgehog]

Hedge

What happened to the saying on your avitar

"If it aint blown, it sucks" that's a keeper

Oh yeah, I have been know to say that!

Good stuff

[zimm17]

The whipple has an idle air bypass circuit with two of the injectors in it. So I think it'll run without a belt- maybe not get on plane, but it should idle. That'll be an interesting experiment when I get the engine put back together.

[zelatore]

I've been gone for a while on the 'other' boat.

But I think it was summed up pretty well earlier - I'm not sold on either unit, and being on a bit of a budget I'm keeping my eyes open for either unit at this point. Should a good deal show up on either, that's probably what I'll end up with.

I think the Whipple looks better and offers a little more room in under the hatch, but that's not enough to counter the right deal on a procharger.




(I was going to insert some sort of comment about not careing how, I just want to get blown, but I figured some of you with your dirty minds would take it the wrong way)

[kramsay1234]

I ran into a guy this past weekend with 2 pro-charged 502's in a 2000 Active Thunder. Sweet boat. Blowers were all polished and looking good. He said he bought it that way, but clearly this is an example of doing them right because he said he has had turn key reliability. No idle problems, no problems period. And he is 32 feet and runs 100 mph :eek!:

Also just had Brovos with showers on them, but I am betting it has beefed up gears inside.

so +1 for Pro-Charger on that one.

[zelatore]

Hey, sometime when I wasn't looking I exceeded 1000 posts. I must be one of the cool crowd now. :dolphin:

[zelatore]

Time to resurrect an old thread.

My on again, off again search for a Whipple hasn't made my wallet any lighter yet.

However, I've got an eye on a Procharger M3sc & intercooler and I've got a sneaking suspicion I'll be making an offer on it shortly.

Any last words of advice before I do something stupid? :bonk:

[mrfixxall]

Time to resurrect an old thread.
My on again, off again search for a Whipple hasn't made my wallet any lighter yet.
However, I've got an eye on a Procharger M3sc & intercooler and I've got a sneaking suspicion I'll be making an offer on it shortly.
Any last words of advice before I do something stupid? :bonk:

Ya! yank the motor and make it into a 540 or a 572..ide hate to see your motor end up like zimms:wink:

[SilverBack]

Time to resurrect an old thread.

My on again, off again search for a Whipple hasn't made my wallet any lighter yet.

However, I've got an eye on a Procharger M3sc & intercooler and I've got a sneaking suspicion I'll be making an offer on it shortly.

Any last words of advice before I do something stupid? :bonk:


Ya! yank the motor and make it into a 540 or a 572..ide hate to see your motor end up like zimms:wink:


If I had it to do over again my engine would be a 540 for sure. You need to build up the bottom end and you may as well go 540. It does make a difference. I think I would also go like 7:1 or 7.5:1. You can run a lot more boost with pump gas and make a bunch more power without being bothered by detonation.


I would also think long and hard about a whipple. Forget eye candy and all of that stuff. Call 10 top marine engine builder and tuners and I bet you hear whipple a lot more. Mark Boos is the guy that did the final tune on Tex's motor and he is doing mine and he would tell you to go with whipple. Eddie Young did Hedge Hog's engine and he would say the same thing. We all have Pro charger M-3's and I would go with a M-3 if I did a procharger but I would think hard and heavy about Whipple. I would not do the side mount though.

Mark is upgrading a pair of 850 Merc's to something like 1250 with huge whipples right now. I don't know what they are planning on doing with the quad 2.3's but that would be a nice setup!! I don't even know if they are for sale but I am just saying.

[SilverBack]

If you want a 502 with a M-3 you can buy mine. It will be fresh with Dyno sheet and all of the kinks worked out with dyno time plus maybe an hour on it.

How does 830 HP sound??

I think that I am going to be putting a little bit bigger engine in my boat anyway!!

[The Hedgehog]

If you want a 502 with a M-3 you can buy mine. It will be fresh with Dyno sheet and all of the kinks worked out with dyno time plus maybe an hour on it.

How does 830 HP sound??

I think that I am going to be putting a little bit bigger engine in my boat anyway!!

Warped. Very warped.

That is a good thing

[SilverBack]

Warped. Very warped.

That is a good thing


What does that mean???

[BUIZILLA]

What does that mean??? it's not negative... :)

[The Hedgehog]

it's not negative... :)

No, Buiz is right:beer:

[SilverBack]

I never would think that HH would say anything bad!! He has been helping me out every since I started this little project.

[zelatore]

540s.....572s.....

You guys are killin' me! If only I had the cash!

I'm not trying to build a 800+ hp motor here, just something with a bit more zip than stock. Although I don't have a specific HP goal, I'm guessing 600 might be possible/reasonable on a stock bottom end. Although also a SWAG I'd estimate that would push me to the 80 mph area. Plenty fast.

I wasn't planning to open up the bottom end. That's why I'm interested in the blower option. Nothing too wild, and I can basically bolt it on with fairly few mods.

Yes, I wanted the Whipple, but nothing's shown up on the radar in the last few months since I started this thread.

On the other hand, I think I can pick up this M3 pretty reasonably. I suppose if I don't like it I can always pull the motor and build inches next year.

I guess the question is - does any of this sound unrealistic using the M3? Or am I setting myself up for a headache?

[BUIZILLA]

just MO, but for what you'll spend on the huffer you can buy a great set of heads and a 540 rotator assembly and be back splashing for the same HP in half the headache...

[SilverBack]

Z..if that is your goal just go with a stock Procharger kit. That is going to be your best bet. Just do the stock kit and not any other mods and you should be fine with 3.5 to 5 psi of boost. I think the Procharger WOULD be a lot easier than a Whipple on your stock bottom end. If you have a MAG engine it should have forged pistons and crank already. You have my blessing!

[SilverBack]

BTW...Jamie is having a sale on prochargers right now but whatever you do...save yourself the trouble and get a stock kit made for your engine. NOT something that someone has that you can get a deal on. It will not end up to be a deal..I have been there and done that!!

[zelatore]

just MO, but for what you'll spend on the huffer you can buy a great set of heads and a 540 rotator assembly and be back splashing for the same HP in half the headache...

Got a link for any of these parts?

Growing up a Ford guy, I've never built a BB Chevy but I'd figure that would be twice the cost of the blower. Crank, rods, pistons, machine work, assembled heads, injection mods....plus the standard stuff like rings, bearings, gaskets.

But hey, I'm willing to look. :wrench:

[zelatore]

BTW...Jamie is having a sale on prochargers right now but whatever you do...save yourself the trouble and get a stock kit made for your engine. NOT something that someone has that you can get a deal on. It will not end up to be a deal..I have been there and done that!!

I've seen Jamie's ad - I figure I'll give him a call Monday just to see what he's got going on. And I have considered that the 'deal' might well end up being less of a bargain and more of a PITA.

(edit)

And yeah, it's a 502 Mag.

[SilverBack]

I've seen Jamie's ad - I figure I'll give him a call Monday just to see what he's got going on. And I have considered that the 'deal' might well end up being less of a bargain and more of a PITA.

(edit)

And yeah, it's a 502 Mag.

I think that is a great motor to leave stock and put the m3 kit on. Hedge Hog has done this and I think that it did really well for him!! He had it in his big green ZX. The complete kit is by far the best way to go!! (Cheapest)

[The Hedgehog]

I think that is a great motor to leave stock and put the m3 kit on. Hedge Hog has done this and I think that it did really well for him!! He had it in his big green ZX. The complete kit is by far the best way to go!! (Cheapest)

Yep. good idea

[kramsay1234]

Can you bring it up to Toronto and drop it in my boat for a weekend? 800+ hp though...:shocking: Can you say, goodbye Bravo...


If you want a 502 with a M-3 you can buy mine. It will be fresh with Dyno sheet and all of the kinks worked out with dyno time plus maybe an hour on it.

How does 830 HP sound??

I think that I am going to be putting a little bit bigger engine in my boat anyway!!

[SilverBack]

Can you bring it up to Toronto and drop it in my boat for a weekend? 800+ hp though...:shocking: Can you say, goodbye Bravo...

Can you say hello IMCO??

These prochargers don't make a lot of power down at low rpm's so maybe the drive will stay a while!! I have been thinking about the SCX upper though!

[SilverBack]

Can you bring it up to Toronto and drop it in my boat for a weekend? 800+ hp though...:shocking: Can you say, goodbye Bravo...


Hedge hog has a Bravo XR drive and he makes around 950 HP. He just doesn't like to admit it ..he is very modest!!

[The Hedgehog]

Hey Keith,

This is where we need to restart the NA vs Blower debate again. Or better yet, single vs twin.

I dissagree about the headache thing. Slap a charger on, dial it in right and you will not have many headaches. Many of us run boosted engines with NO problems. Every now and then somebody will toast one and it is all the blower's fault. We forget that folks toast NA engines all the time. Heck, Barry Eller's 502 swallowed a valve and Fishin Sucks lunched a 350 Mag are two that immediately come to mind.

Now if you are mechanically inclined, do a bunch of the work yourself and can stick to a plan then you can accomplish the same hp for roughly the same money. Maybe even a little less. Let's see: Heads, cam, rotating ass, new manfold, carb, some machine work (you would not want to do all that without honing a few things while you are there), pull engine, reinstall, long risers to go with that big cam.....Hmmm not sure if I see that. Maybe is you do all the work yourself. If not you will not be close. It cost $6-7k or so to freshen a 500 EFI and that is without buying new heads.

Now I agree that a 540 NA would be better. You will have a basically new engine with a mean sound. With a blower on a stock combo you get a 2 to 4 seasons on it (pending on how much you boat) and you will be pulling the motor.

One thing to think about is where you boat. If you run in the salt it is tough on those Procharger intercoolers.

[BUIZILLA]

long risers to go with that big cam..... with a 540 you don't need a big cam or long risers, you just need the right cam to begin with... wait, I think I hear an echo.... :wrench:

[SilverBack]

with a 540 you don't need a big cam or long risers, you just need the right cam to begin with... wait, I think I hear an echo.... :wrench:

YOu sure know how to kick someone while they are down!!:wink:

[SilverBack]

Hey Keith,

This is where we need to restart the NA vs Blower debate again. Or better yet, single vs twin.

I dissagree about the headache thing. Slap a charger on, dial it in right and you will not have many headaches. Many of us run boosted engines with NO problems. Every now and then somebody will toast one and it is all the blower's fault. We forget that folks toast NA engines all the time. Heck, Barry Eller's 502 swallowed a valve and Fishin Sucks lunched a 350 Mag are two that immediately come to mind.

Now if you are mechanically inclined, do a bunch of the work yourself and can stick to a plan then you can accomplish the same hp for roughly the same money. Maybe even a little less. Let's see: Heads, cam, rotating ass, new manfold, carb, some machine work (you would not want to do all that without honing a few things while you are there), pull engine, reinstall, long risers to go with that big cam.....Hmmm not sure if I see that. Maybe is you do all the work yourself. If not you will not be close. It cost $6-7k or so to freshen a 500 EFI and that is without buying new heads.

Now I agree that a 540 NA would be better. You will have a basically new engine with a mean sound. With a blower on a stock combo you get a 2 to 4 seasons on it (pending on how much you boat) and you will be pulling the motor.

One thing to think about is where you boat. If you run in the salt it is tough on those Procharger intercoolers.


I think Z already has some Stainless Marine manifolds. That would be a must for the 540. I think with the 502 Mag intake the procharger might be the way to go..IMHO...with that said..Buiz knows his stuff and I agree with him also. I just think if I had it to do over again...I would do a stock kit!! When you go custom there are a lot of variables....I know that I spent a lot more on my engine than I did on the procharger and intercooler. I bet it was 3 or 4 to 1 at least!!!

[The Hedgehog]

I think Z already has some Stainless Marine manifolds. That would be a must for the 540. I think with the 502 Mag intake the procharger might be the way to go..IMHO...with that said..Buiz knows his stuff and I agree with him also. I just think if I had it to do over again...I would do a stock kit!! When you go custom there are a lot of variables....I know that I spent a lot more on my engine than I did on the procharger and intercooler. I bet it was 3 or 4 to 1 at least!!!

He will be fine as long as it is not the silent choice version.

[BigGrizzly]

Sorry guys I was of the net for a short time. OK a 540 will give you tons of torque in a NA version and is is very strong physically especially the Bull dog version-giant rods. It is well capable of 80+ mph, if done marginally well, read that a simple build. Now the blower. If done correctly on a 502, with 4-5 psi boost you will get about 600 hp and a ton of torque- better then high RPM horse power. My engine gets better fuel economy then a stock 502 or 540 mpi or carb version. As for silent choice, I have silent choice and it is not a problem. I have mistakenly run it at full tilt with out harm once or twice. I make it a habit of not using them at a cruise. Just in case. My engine will run on 89 octane as long as I don't blitz it. This problem is soon to be corrected, we hope. We are going to see what it will take to change mine to regular. If there isn't too much involved. Garry does make a 540 that gets 700 HP on 89 octane. This engine does not like silent choice but does well with the CMI mufflers. If I had unlimited funds I would do a 540. Just for a real comparision and a back up for mine.

[ky-donzi]

Just my 2 cents,

I have run my procharger almost totally in the silent choise mode. The lake that I boat on requires underwater exhaust. That being said I have a 350 mag 4-5 psi. I have one full season on the system with no know problems.... Made a tremendous difference, and I would do it again....

If my engine lets loose, I will go back with a engine built for a supercharger, but until it does,,, I'm just going to enjoy the extra horsepower

[VetteLT193]

I like the procharger on a Donzi. Lightweight V that doesn't have a super high top end.

Whipple makes a nice product, and some of the other blowers out there are nice too... but on this style boat the boost down low is really un-necessary and shortens the life of the engine.

The guys that run prochargers usually get a lot of life out of the engine... whipples. not so much.

If we had cat hulls that were going to go 100+ and had to spin a huge prop it would be a different story.

[SilverBack]

i like the procharger on a donzi. Lightweight v that doesn't have a super high top end.

Whipple makes a nice product, and some of the other blowers out there are nice too... But on this style boat the boost down low is really un-necessary and shortens the life of the engine.

The guys that run prochargers usually get a lot of life out of the engine... Whipples. Not so much.

If we had cat hulls that were going to go 100+ and had to spin a huge prop it would be a different story.


true!!

[LKSD]

Hey guys just remeber there is one way to skin a cat.. Also blower motor life expectancy also has a lot to do with install/build and set up as well as useage/driver.. I have seen them all be able to last a long time and all of them last almost no time at all including NA motors depending on those factors.. ;) Jamie / Lakeside

[LKSD]

Also yes I do have a good year end sale going on this year as I had posted in some other threads. If anyone is looking & wants a price feel free to give me a call.. I will say WE offer some really good prices from us beyond the advertised Procharger sale prices.. ;) If one is seriously thinking of buying a procharger this is the time of year to do it.. From the discounts that we are giving in addition to the ones that procharger has on the table it make buying you are buying new for the price of used.. :eek::shocking: :D Jamie / Lakeside

[LKSD]

I guess I should clairfy my post. I really like my procharger and like I said before ... Don't rule out using one becasue they make a tremendous difference"

But I like how the whipple is more properly tuned for a injected engine.

If you are going to go the used route it will probably be what you can find tho

I kind of agree. The procharger is fine on the older MPI set ups & with some add ons can be really a killer unit. That said on the big HP stuff, late model MPI engines like 496s & blue 525s etc and more custom stuff the whipple is more precise out of the box which is a good thing, As It can save money and time while providing longer life on the newer stuff. However they can still be also tuned further as well.. But again on a basic bread & butter stock older series mag engine the procharger is adequate & can be further enhanced if you need it to be.. There are more indepth details to this stuff, but those are some basic opinions of mine.. Jamie

[G-MAN]

Has anyone ever tried pro chargers on a 28zx with twin 350 mags?
If so how did it turn out? was it worth it? how about engine life?:drive: