?23"? Solas prop

[maddad]

I have some questions about how they figure the pitch on the Solas props. The only place I see any kind of slip is under 2500rpm(33.1mph vs. 33.4 theoretical), after that is all to fast for 23" pitch. 3000 rpm =41.1mph vs. 40, 3500 = 47.9, 5000 = 67.8. It was a little rough and crowded this weekend so those are the only GPS at rpm speeds I made note of. I know Big Grizzly sold a few other 23" props, who has them and how are your numbers? Let me add that handling became much better when I put the nosecone in front of the Solas. That is the only reason I can spin it over 5000. I've had a top speed of 74.3 at around 54-5500. I'm not sure I'll do that too often without external steering.:shocking:
I thought maybe the tach was off, but it's dead on with the tach on the digital timing light.

[mattyboy]

re work your numbers at a 24 pitch to accomodate for the cup in the 23 solas and you'll see that you are right in the ballpark for the solas 3-5% slip providing your a turning a 1.6 ratio volvo the nose cone just gives the solas what it needs nice clean water to bite the hell out of

[f_inscreenname]

Please tell me, where did you find that nose cone at?:)

[mrfixxall]

Please tell me, where did you find that nose cone at?:)


you can get one here!http://www.hydromotive.com/nosecones.html

[maddad]

Matty, I did look at the numbers. Thats why i thought the pitch was labled wrong. An efficient 24" would support the speeds I'm seeing. No doubt the switch to Solas was the best performance mod I've made.
The nosecone is a Hydromotive, I filled the water pickup part because I switched to a hull mounted water intake.
I'd still like to hear about how others are doing with the 23" Solas.

[mattyboy]

I was running a 21 which really worked out to be a 22 otherwise i was the same as you I had negative slip numbers, i didn't have the HP to spin a 23 i believe magical bill was turning a 23 with big HP in a 16 everyone that i have spoke to and have recomended the solas has had the same results better handling and a faster sustainable wot

i believe you are the fastest speed I have heard about with the solas at 74.3 very respectable for a sb volvo 18 with out an e drive

and it must be a strong motor to spin a solas to 5500

[BigGrizzly]

Actually These props are not normal The actually have very little slip. Remember what boat they were made on and that was my Corsican with the volvo drive. It is not a re hubbed something. The pitch is derived from the center of the pitch progression just like they do on all their props. Maddad I have the same nosecone for the same reason I also have a nose coned 270 case with the same cone. It is the hydromotive. Most Solas props have little slip except the scorpion. I have been testing for them for years with my good friend Neil. MD, I came up with similar numbers as you as did Magic Bill's tech Randy. Bill's boat will turn 5500 the last time I talked to Randy. He was laughing that his tech road with him and pushed his glasses so hard against his face he could not see. The prop is just weird, to look at it is all wrong but it isn't.

[Kirbyvv]

I'll take it! Poodle you have a PM and email.

[f_inscreenname]

No prices on the website. Any clue how much they run?

[Ralph Savarese]

Do you know the solas part # and what is your aprox Hp I have a 66
2 plus 3 270 volvo had since new.
I am currently running 22.5 michigan ss cup 5000 rpm
Thanks Ralph

[BigGrizzly]

Actually I am the one who is selling them, The internet one isn't the same, all who have posted have gotten theirs through me. Read the Donzi org. post on solas prop testing. The prop you are using got me started on this project. BTW they no longer make that prop!. I bet that where the blade meets the hub is pitted.

[maddad]

I have ONE Latham/Volvo wing plate left
I own one of those, I need to find out about the cylinders, hoses, locations etc. A thread on external hydraulic steering for older Volvos sort of came and went without the final pieces in place. Anybody who's done this please feel free to chime in.

[Ralph Savarese]

well i am guessing if mine is in good shape stick with it
or will the solas make an improvement

[maddad]

Ralph, I went from a 24" ultra that I could spin off the scale on my 6000rpm tach to the Solas and gained almost 10mph so far plus the handling to drive the boat 10mph faster. If I'm not mistaken, you're here on L.I. too, I'd let you try this 23 to see what you think.

[Lenny]

I have been running the 21 SOLAS all week and it is better than the Ultra by far. The slip numbers are minute, to say the least. Hydraulics on mine are going to be a must. :yes: I have that "wingplate" from Poodle. It is a nice piece. Fits well.

I would like to try the nose cone thingy but FIRST, I have to fix the fork bushings before I end up upside down... :eek:

...just ask Owen... :D ...once he gets out of therapy... :D

[Lenny]

MD, I was waiting on some measurements from folks to help figure out the rams sizes.. Never got em..
That would be me... :) :bonk: :bonk: :bonk:

[Ralph Savarese]

I would love to try that. Is it a 17 spline?
The prop i am running currently seems to be performing well it would be an interesting change .

[Ralph Savarese]

Where on LI are you? I am in Islip Terrace.
Ralph

[maddad]

Ralph, I never counted the splines but they seem to fit all the older Volvo drives. Some need to have the trim tabs or exhaust fin thingy removed or modified.

[Ralph Savarese]

cool we need to hook up

[maddad]

I'm on the south shore also. I should have the boat in the water for the weekend by tonight, give a call and we can use prop testing as an excuse to go boating.
Mike

[Kirbyvv]

Ralph, depending on what you have for an engine, you may want to try a Solas 21. I'm running a 21 with a stock SBC. These are powerful props. Bet Griz would send you a prop to demo, he's that kind of guy.
Mike, I think RapidTransit (Nick) is running a Solas 23 and pushing low 70's, with somewhere around 400 hp.

[BigGrizzly]

Ralph you won't be able to turn MD's Prop but you might be able to get a feel sort of.

[f_inscreenname]

Hey BG
I run a 14X24 SS now and I am hitting 5 grand with it with my 454. I know yours only goes up to a 23P. Will yours 23 bring down my rpm’s from your experience with swapping SS for the Solas?

[penbroke]

Hey BG
I run a 14X24 SS now and I am hitting 5 grand with it with my 454. I know yours only goes up to a 23P. Will yours 23 bring down my rpm’s from your experience with swapping SS for the Solas?

The Sloas will not fit on on your new shaft...


Frank :lookaroun:

[mrfixxall]

Hey BG
I run a 14X24 SS now and I am hitting 5 grand with it with my 454. I know yours only goes up to a 23P. Will yours 23 bring down my rpm’s from your experience with swapping SS for the Solas?

before you install that new shaft chalk it up in a lathe,,they quit making that shaft because it wasnt true,run out if i remember correctly was between .005 and .010..they had a tendency to cause a viberation..

If you do install it i have a $hit load (50+)of 3 blades and 4 blades lefty props with merc splines,

[f_inscreenname]

before you install that new shaft chalk it up in a lathe,,they quit making that shaft because it wasnt true,run out if i remember correctly was between .005 and .010..they had a tendency to cause a viberation..

If you do install it i have a $hit load (50+)of 3 blades and 4 blades lefty props with merc splines,

These guys are talking about single numbers for prop slip and 3 to 10mph in gained speed. I have to try one of them first but I will have that done and thanks for the info. I’m thinking the shaft will be a winter time project.:wink:

[BigGrizzly]

I hope you didn't put that shaft in yet. Mad Dad has that lower unit and the shaft is bent. There are two problems with that shaft. ! like Mr Fix said and two it isn't hard enough and just bends in use. I knew a guy who got a new one and it was supposed to be straight after a week it was bent enough that you could actually see it when it was moving. The thing with my props is they are of a big diameter. It all depends what SS prop you have. These are modern design props not the late 80s and earlier design. My 23 relates to a 26 Ultra. Besides the handling I like the efficiency at cruise. Now read the post on Donzi.org. BTW Rapid transit does over 70 in his boat and does have over 400 horse, I know his engine builder. Don't ask him because he is in love with the prop.

[mattyboy]

what travels more in one turn a 24 pitch with 10-12% slip or a 23 pitch with 3-5% slip????
the blade area on a solas is massive, the handling improvement is remarkable, the ultra I could probably hit 65 with but only for a second and from 55 up it was not an enjoyable expierence and those speeds could only be hit from 55 and up on flat calm water and for only seconds as the boat was uncontrolable the best speed I got out of the solas was 62 but it was stable and could run there all day in any conditions and the real remarkable thing if you had to chop the throttle quick for a rogue wake or other issue the boat did not get squirelly or loose it was like it had brakes, the solas is by far the best investment for anyone running a volvo aquamatic
you just might have to check your ego when someone says what prop do you have not a 26 or a 27 pitch a 23 pitch !!!

[BigGrizzly]

Hi jack here. Matty we really missed you at Lake George. Tell them what Marie said, way funny. What is a real ego buster is when a professional boat racer tells me the prop is all wrong, then they drive the boat, then its "no comment".

[maddad]

F'n, I did have a Merc prop shaft setup and used a Mirage somebody worked to 23". It was great for a little while, but the shaft started to wobble a bit more every time out till I thought somthing was going to break.
TRY THE SOLAS.
I have 400+ hp and the 23 is perfect. It also uses less fuel than the Ultra, or at least it would if I didn't use the boat more.

[f_inscreenname]

Well I’m glad I have a couple options before trying it.
Let’s see what Big G can do with this.
As for the prop I run now. It’s this one.
http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/4791/40985768dl5.jpg
It’s a Volvo 14X24L SS prop (853791-2). With it I reached a max speed (only a couple times, more like 56.5 is normal) 57.2 mph. Using the higher number according to a little program I use, http://www.boatramp.com/prop_applet/PropAnalyzerAppletG.html (http://www.boatramp.com/prop_applet/PropAnalyzerAppletG.html) I’m looking at prop slip of 19.24% and this is not the first one to be in the high teens. For that matter all the props I have tested has been in the mid to high teens. Aluminum, bronze, S.S. Sadly the best prop I have when it comes to slip is to small to run anymore.
I’m going to try this 16X26L Ellison I just made a trade for, over the weekend and see what I can get out of it.
http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/5972/28985295xm0.jpg
I did try a 16X26 aluminum the other week and it worked real well except for after 4000rpm’s it tended “break loose”. I figured it was flexing to much.
Last, remember I’m not running a Donzi. It’s a Nova. 19’ long and 8’ wide at the transom and built solid like a tank. The desk top dyno puts the 454’s HP somewhere around 430 so I should have plenty of pushing power. Now to just get it hooked in.

[mattyboy]

Hi jack here. Matty we really missed you at Lake George. Tell them what Marie said, way funny. What is a real ego buster is when a professional boat racer tells me the prop is all wrong, then they drive the boat, then its "no comment".

yes we missed all of you too


do you mean the time I lent the solas to my pal kenny after we had run it for most of the season, when i gave him the solas he gave me a 24 ultra
as soon as we planed off Marie knew something was wrong she said what's up with the boat it is all over the place I said I have a new prop she said what happened to solas I said kenny has it she said pull up to his dock and I'll jump in the lake and take it back


was that the one Grizz??

[BigGrizzly]

Yes that was the main one. There are a couple of others too. she told me she liked me because I made the Solas prop possible. She made me feel like a king.
The 16 x26 is going to be a little big in both directions. That bronze prop is an Ok prop but nothing special. The Volvo prop looks like a mid run Ultra and you have the slip right. On Donzi.org Matty has the two pictured together and there you will get the idea. As for your boat, your telling me the same things the Donzi owners are.

[maddad]

Here's a 24" Ultra next to a 23" Solas.

[f_inscreenname]

How about rpm drop. Is there any when switching the two? I would love for it to top out around 4800.

[maddad]

The Ultra would spin to the stop on my 6000rpm tach. The Solas has been to 54-5500 so far.

[Formula Jr]

65 mph, no ability to turn to Starboard. Launch and the whole drive releases and turns 5 degrees on the landing, making the boat sideways for the next set. F#ck!

Okay, that was fun. But I didn't want to be a pain, if the thing rolled completely over. Don't want no wedding weekend tragics to deal with.

All you can do with this boat at WOT, right now, is pick a heading in following or oncoming seas and deal with the sideways landing stuff.

In mixed seas, as in the north-eastern side of Piers Island, this boat is crazy to drive at near, or at WOT. Its a 3/8th inch bolt holding the whole thing together.

The Solars prop, I think is cool. With one person on the boat, I think it works well and puts the rpms right where they need to be for a 350 mag.
No tach, thats just seat of the pants perception.

Right now, this boat is wicked, voodoo to drive at all at WOT.


And that was alot of fun to do.














.

[BigGrizzly]

Jr obviously doesn't have one of my props on it sounds like the stock aluminum prop.
Thanks MadDad for the picture that says it all.

[f_inscreenname]

Now for the million dollar question. How much will one of these props set me back? Please remember I am unemployed. :(
Anything in my garage sale you want to trade.:biggrin.: http://www.supernova19.com/garage_sale___supernova19_com.htm

[BigGrizzly]

I sell them for $385 plus shipping. I am retired and this is the only thing I do.

[Lenny]

Jr obviously doesn't have one of my props on it sounds like the stock aluminum prop.


That IS with the SOLAS prop Grizz. 21" SOLAS. I am seeing 5K with it now but I have some "loose" gimbal/helmet/steering fork issues that need IMMEDIATE attention.

The ULTRA provides much more bow lift but has tremendous slip. Lets put it this way. With the 24" ULTRA and spinning right (left hand boat) I can drive and fly this thing fine. And land it. With the LH SOLAS, I can not even think about it. If you leave the water, on re-entry you are going to all but (or will) get dumped. Also, when coming off the throttle, the drive actually comes up, away from the transom and acts as a brake. :eek: I would like to see more bow lift from this prop. I am in the third hole now (always have been) 280, and there is about 4" of bow height missing when running the 21 SOLAS that the 24 ULTRA provides. :confused:

The mid range cruise with the SOLAS is phenonomal. It is pushing some serious water. :yes:

By the way, I just got back from an entire day out "there" with this boat/prop. At 2500-3000 rpm it is pure joy. I was followed/rode beside, Homeland Security for about 45 minutes this afternoon out in the middle of nowhere. (Your Country mind you) :) At 3K I was right with them all the way and they were running. They had a pair of 275's on a rigid hull.

What fun, but YES, it is $@)%#$ ing scary above 3K or flying the hull. (X-18 that is)

Need the hydraulics and trim BAD.

Come to think of it, I need a Bravo transom assembly instead... ;)

[Magicallbill]

Interesting stuff,as always from you all..

A quick recap on my rig..
As some of you know it's a 347CID Ford engine, 397 HP..
Randy(my incredible tech who restored the boat,) says there's approx a 50HP loss going thru the Volvo.
She runs 62MPH on radar at 4700-4800RPM.
Randy has had it to 5500 with just him..
The 23 Solas Grizz sold us is perfect for my boat..It's funny..I put it in gear and with that big wheel, it's already goin' 7-8MPH at dead idle.
Oh, yeah, the boat is Jerry Eisele's old 16 Ski Sporter.
I put "1968" graphics on my trailer, and then Matty told me it was a '67..Oh well.....

[BigGrizzly]

Sorry Lenny, I though JR was talking about his boat. I did tighten my helmet ip and put on the Teleflex hydraulic on it - much better then either the no feed back and the rack steering. Then put on the electric power assist on it and it is great. I bet external hydraulic would be the real stuff, put a spar Volvo on the Criterion it would be like a shorty. Btw Bill's tech Randy is a superior tech, he has my vote.

[Formula Jr]

Apologies are mine Grizz for not being clear what boat I was running.

There are two things going on in the description of how the prop works; one has to do with Len's X-18's steering binding up and being generally loosy goosy, there are a whole bunch of issues going with that that have little to do with the prop other than to say that this isn't a good choice if the steering is sloppy - the Solas will compound the steering problems. The other has to do with the differences of the Ultra 24 and the Solas 21 props and the different handedness if steering was taken out of the evaluation.

I was mostly a passenger with the 24 Ultra, but single drove the 21 Solas.

As you know on this boat, Lenny runs on the third hole, Volvo 280, 350 Mag, manual steering, X-18, port helm, no trim or tabs.


The 24 Ultra gave tremendous bow lift. So much so, I suggested Len run on the second hole, as the boat wants to flip on launch when set up his way. He had sort of forgotten that we had switched props and was saying to me to watch the wind and bow on the speed runs in Swartz Bay when I was running the Solas. The Solas has no detectable bow lift at all.
And that is VERY interesting considering he's running the third hole and the tank was 1/4 full. Its hook-up is different also. The Solas is completely connected to the water even with the lower RPMs than the Ultra 24.
The Ultra has the expected thrash - slip - that most people are use to. We later spun this Ultra prop, so even that perception is clouded.

The Solas seemed always to be entirely connected. And you can feel that instantly when getting up to plane. The mid-range is seconded here to be phenomenal!

Sorry I couldn't get out the GPS, I was a scared to do anything else but concentrate on the waves ahead. My sense is the Solas is faster with no walk.

[BigGrizzly]

Jr, The engineers actually came to my house with a step van Full of different props and we tested all day. These guys don't want to stop for lunch. It was so cool. I wish I could relate the whole story but it is long and maybe boring to some. They made a special one off prop for me but in right hand for a present. Then asked me how i liked it, that started it. They were being nice3 because they are one of Honda's vendors and we do a lot of business with them and Dr Solas is a great guy. That prop is unbelievable the way it performs on these Donzis.

[maddad]

An interesting few posts. It's my opinion, and I think Ralph Savarese will agree, the Solas needs way less trim to fly straight. When I ran with him my drive was trimmed at 3.5 holes and was barely controlable. Today, at the races I had it at 2.5 holes and with another person in the boat ate up the worst the Great South Bay Had to offer. The extra trim seems to help only when the boat is loaded down.
Lenny, if you're a third pin kind of guy, and I was with the Ultra, try the second spot, or use some bushings for 2.5 which my boat loves.

[penbroke]

An interesting few posts. It's my opinion, and I think Ralph Savarese will agree, the Solas needs way less trim to fly straight. When I ran with him my drive was trimmed at 3.5 holes and was barely controlable. Today, at the races I had it at 2.5 holes and with another person in the boat ate up the worst the Great South Bay Had to offer. The extra trim seems to help only when the boat is loaded down.
Lenny, if you're a third pin kind of guy, and I was with the Ultra, try the second spot, or use some bushings for 2.5 which my boat loves.


I run a 24 Ultra on some bushings at 2.5 and the boat handles great. The top hole is just too high. What did you do to make the reverse catch work?


Frank

[mattyboy]

yes the solas carries the boat level it doesn't seem to give excessive bow or stern lift and carries the boat at an angle of attack where it handles well in calm or rough waters and it seems to work well on the 16 hull as well as an older 20 foot cig which is basically the same design rounded keel the inner strake ends well short of the transom, and at the LGPA poker run last year trying to keep up with all the 40 foot fountains and outer limits we ran that cig with the solas WOT and in some real slop and not once did it cavitate ventilate or blow out i hear bob haver bravo boy saw that video of us in the run I haven't seen it not sure my kidneys are up to it, it is not good when the guys in the photo helicopter keep coming back to you and you see the look of shock and awe on their faces just about at the same time all the air leaves your body


the solas move a hell of alot of water and doesn't like being cramped, as jay lurie's old 16 with a 200 lower wouldn't spin a 21 at higher rpm's ( he had the hp there to do it)it handled badly but a 19 was not a problem, all we can figure is the added pitch ment more water being moved and the 200 lower which is smaller prop shaft center to anti cav plate , now he has a 250 lower and he tried the 21 and it works better as the prop is not as close to the anti cav plate

[maddad]

I run a 24 Ultra on some bushings at 2.5 and the boat handles great. The top hole is just too high. What did you do to make the reverse catch work?
Frank
On my 280 leg, the catch still grabs the pin even with the bushings. I recently adjusted the linkage under the cover to advance the lock rods position, but that was to make it always lock down, instead of most times.
The bushings had no effect on it's habit of holding or not.

[penbroke]

On my 280 leg, the catch still grabs the pin even with the bushings. I recently adjusted the linkage under the cover to advance the lock rods position, but that was to make it always lock down, instead of most times.
The bushings had no effect on it's habit of holding or not.

Any chance you could post a photo of your bushing setup?


Thanks,
Frank

[maddad]

Here they are.

[penbroke]

Thanks! That explains it. My bushings are much larger OD.


Frank
Reverse is overrated.