Need some advice,.... legal too

[onesubdrvr]

Well, for those of you who have followed my "trial and tribulations" over the years, perhaps you'll be able to follow this without falling asleep.

My two oldest daughters just got back from seeing there mother for the first time in the four years that I've had custody of them.

Their mother has been far from a model citizen over that time (or prior to that), but it was her right (legally) to see them, so I let them go. They've been back for a week now, and we've finally had a chance to have a long conversation with them about how the trip went (inlaws were in town). Now, my 11 year old (Rebecca) has told me that she never wants to go see her mother again, or talk to her on the phone, while my 13 year old was offered (and wants) to go live with her mother. Her personality is the type that doesn't do well in a large family environment where as the 11 year old thrives in it - it's good for her. Aparantly this offer came up in conversation with their mother when they were out the. The 13 year old has an only child mentality, unfortunately the 11 year old was loosely speaking "hidden in the closet" when they lived with there mother before, and she (the 13 year old) grew accustomed to it. I know it isn't the best place for her to go (the 13 year old), but at what cost? Here, she causes much disorder and general discord, much to the detriment of our attempt (and usually a pretty good attempt) to provide a happy, loving yet responsibility teaching environment.

essentially, long and short of it, they would be split up. Keep in mind that I have 5 children all together, so the 11 year old would still be in a big family, and the 13 year old would be in her prefferend environment.

Question 1: Should I let her go (a court would ask their preferences, and likely grant it), but I do have sold custody of them currently.

Question 2: If I were to make the decision to let her go, how would I make sure that the 13 year old is the sold responsibility (financially, health insurance, educationally, etc.) of her mother, while maintaining the same for the 11 year old?

Question 3: Why isn't life easy!?

Wayne

[Ed Donnelly]

Wayne; WOW.. That is some heavy poopoo to put on two kids.

Are the 11 and 13 yr olds close??

My 14 yr old son and 12 yr. old daughter fight like cats and dogs all the time.

The 12 yr. old went to visit her God parents for 3 weeks and the 14 yr old

cried every night after the first week. Who would of thought he would miss her..

1) Phycological evaluation of both girls in regards to the new proposed situation.

2) A damn good lawyer to protect you and your family from unforeseen problems arising from the ex wife and her new found custody

3) Is she going to be 100% safe in her new enviroment???? ......Ed

[cutwater]

NO 13-year-old is going to "like" their home environment. Unless, of course, they are allowed to do whatever they want without discipline (and is that healthy?). It's just that age... I was a good kid and had an amazing family, but I argued with my parents all the time when I was that age. I don't know you Wayne, but you sound like you try to do what's best for them. I would just say that if you try to provide a good environment for her, she won't appreciate it now, but one day it will sink in...

[onesubdrvr]

Wayne; WOW.. That is some heavy poopoo to put on two kids.

Are the 11 and 13 yr olds close??

My 14 yr old son and 12 yr. old daughter fight like cats and dogs all the time.

The 12 yr. old went to visit her God parents for 3 weeks and the 14 yr old

cried every night after the first week. Who would of thought he would miss her..

1) Phycological evaluation of both girls in regards to the new proposed situation.

2) A damn good lawyer to protect you and your family from unforeseen problems arising from the ex wife and her new found custody

3) Is she going to be 100% safe in her new enviroment???? ......Ed
Ed,

They were very close at one time, the 11yo depended on the 13yo alot, but since they've been here, the 11yo has become more independent, and as I said, she still has her 2 other sisters and her little brother.

Yes, a lawyer is a must, child custody laws are tricky ESPECIALLY in interstate cases

100% safe,... well, safe yes, I don't think her life or physical well being is in danger, however, it is NOT a nurturing environment, one where lessons on life aren't taught or cared about. There is no work ethic there, and she would likely become another burden on the state.

I think the fastest anything would happen is over the christmas break, that gives her some time to cool off from all the "fun" she had with her mom, get used to her new school, etc. I think I'll limit or censor some what her conversations with her mother as her mother will constantly promise her things "if she comes".

Yeah, it is a lot of crap for them, and all the family involved. My wife was recently in California with all of the girls, and spent a week in Tahoe with the ex father in law BEFORE they went to their mothers,..... this is certainly taking a toll on us.

Wayne

[Trueser]

I would be very carefull what you ink here. It may end up on the table.

If it were me I would keep up the fight.

[BUIZILLA]

i'll be brief....

don't let her go...

if she still wants to go when she's 18 and out of high school, wish her well, until then do your best and continue your current path of parenting.... that's all you can do.

[Donzi Vol]

Wayne,

I don't know you and don't know your situation, but I can tell by your typing that you're a heck of a father to these girls (and I'm sure the rest of your kids). Know that I'll be thinking about and praying for you and your family in this tough time. PM me if you need anything specific.

Take care,
David

[Team Jefe]

Wayne I have no kids and hesitated weighting in here.....but you're my bud and you asked.

to answer your last question first.....God has a sick sense of humor. I'm sure there is reasoning behind it...but what do I know He is God...not me (contrary to popular belief:wink:)

As for the girls, they need to stay right there (Like normal Buizilla is right). I know you are a good father, I know you are raising them right, I know they will be better members of society for it, and I know YOU know this as well. Quit doubting yourself and keep doing what you know is right....Vaya Con Dios my friend, becasue I can't even imagine how hard it is.

No structure, no work ethic...a burden on the state.....are these the asperations you wish for your daughter???????????????

Yeah, that's what I thought.......As always you and your family are in my prayers Amigo

[Kirbyvv]

I aggree that most 13 yr olds don't like their home environment. I wouln't let her go. I'm not sure about the laws in FL, but many states don't let the child make a choice until they are 16.

[Rootsy]

Teenagers are looking to become independent people. It is a natural progression. They just don't have the maturity and experience to jump into it both feet first. Hence the job of proper parenting with rules and bounderies. A teenagers wildest dreams, especially in todays, anything goes society, is to be able to have the freedom to do as they please with as little parental intervention as possible. Straight from child to adult, skip the whole adolescent period...

It might be tough, disruptive and wavy within your family for the next few years but you need to stay the course as you, from your initial post, appear to be the stable responsible party in the ex-relationship. If her mother, is as you state, then I foresee it as an environment for your daughter to potentially get into all manners of trouble and to be nurtured into another lame excuse for a young adult to be a leech on society. Bad habits breed bad habits...

But alas I am no psychologist... actually I disliked psychology almost more than any other subject during my entire educational lifetime... Now I find it interesting... Go figure.

[Uncle Fester]

Wayne, you are where I was about 5 years ago. I have had full custody of my two girls since they were 1 and 3 (they are now 16 & almost 18). My ex lives on the other side of the state, but might as well be the other side of the country.

I went thru the exact same thing your experiencing at about the same age as what your girls are at now. Do not let her go. It is a teenage thing and they think the grass is greener on the other side. You have custody for a reason. Your daughter's wants do not matter to the courts. The court has decided your the better parent. Even if your ex tries to take you to court (which I doubt she would), she would have a hard time convincing them she is a fit mother and can provide a better enviroment than what you have already proven.

What I witness in any visits with their mother, is that she is more of a glorified babysitter..... tries to be their best friend. Doesn't have any money so buying them things isn't really a selling point. But she is so immature that she can actually interact with the girls as though she were a schoolmate. My girls have her on a pedestal that her sh*t don't stink. Because she has such limited time with them that she has never had the pain of handing down punishment which makes them like her even more.

You need to tough out the attitude. Put your foot down. Remind them who the adult is and who makes the decisions. She will talk about emancipation, and that when she turns 16 it's her choice. She'll tell you she hates you and that life with mom is so much better. She'll also walk out the door 5 minutes ago (my oldest just left for work) and say "bye daddy....I'm off to work... I love you." So obviously she is still with me even after all the threats and the fighting. She will be 18 in three months and even though she says she is gone as soon as her birthday hits I bet my Donzi she will be here in the house come next fall even after she graduates.

[txtaz]

Wayne,
We are stuck in the Newark airport right now so I can't go into much. Call me tonight(after 8pm est 210-681-3557) with more details and I'll get the guru of childhood education and development a call and see what can be done.
Da Taz<---Dr. Wilhour???? Nope that's my Mom. AND if my Mom has a PhD. in early childhood education, why am I so screwy?:eek!::eek!::shocking:

[onesubdrvr]

Thank you everyone for your responses, and well thoughts...

I can tell you that THIS is the most nuturing and loving environment for her, hands down.

I am going to get some help from people educated in these areas and get some advice.

The biggest part of the problem, is whether or not this can be the best place for her if she a) doesn't want to be here b) doesn't care about the rules c) doesn't care about any of her family here. What she is going to learn from me, she's has learned, getting her to apply it is completely different.

I do know that kids always think the grass is greener on the other side,.... but they don't realize that the grass doesn't get greener without being fed with fertilizer (bs).

There is something funny going on with the ex, and this whole situation is smelling fishier that Jefes boat after a good day. My daughter is now trying to hide phone conversations, etc. On the other hand, the 11 year old has made her decision, after two weeks of fun and no responsibility with her mother, and SHE made the right decision (I can't tell you how happy that makes me).

Thanks again everyone for the advice.

Wes, I'll give you a buzz later tomorrow if you don't mind, I'm a little whooped, late night last night finishing up some homework and my final exam, but I know (from past experience :wink:) that the Dr. gives great advice, and again many thanks.

David, thanks for keeping me in your thoughts and prayers, as I know everyone is, I'm a believer in that stuff :yes:.

Jefe, you nailed it, you know I don't want that,... and by the way, graduation is getting closer, gotta get the cooler and truck ready to go :yes:

Kirby, I think it is 16 here too, but regardless, she wouldn't persue it through those channels, she would just try to make things miserable here for everyone else until we couldn't deal with it anymore. Her mother doesn't have the $ to persue it, especially since custody is established here, some 3000+ miles away.

Roots,
You're absolutely right, if she goes there, she'll be in all sorts of trouble, doing all sorts of things a good girl shouldn't be doing :mad:.

Fester, there is a lot of similarities for sure. Mom want's to be the cool one to the 13 yo, and doesn't want to bother with the 11 year old, because she's a lot of work (learning disability, speach problems / etc.) The 13 year old is a tall, skinny blonde that can be molded like silly putty, and sure her mom would find something to do with that.

Thanks again guys,..... off to the "compiler"

Wayne

[samjannarone]

Onesub,

My wife and I raised 2 girls (now 19 and 22), and worked hard the whole time to make sure everything was right. It was a struggle at times, but things have turned out great--both in good colleges, smart, respectful.
The trouble (wrong word, kids don't make the trouble, we do)---- your situation, with your 13 yr old reminds me of my younger one-- as soon as she got to junior high, co-captain of the lacrosse team and all the rest, she became way too cool for her parents and her old friends, and frankly became quite a pain in the ass for the next couple of years. It took until the end of high school for her to realize whats what in life, and I must tell you I was up all night more times than I can remember. Started getting gray hair around that time :nilly:.

I realize that our situations are not perfectly parallel, but I tell you these things so that you stay hopeful, and trust yourself to do the right thing. You sound like a smart guy, and a good father. Just keep going, and remember one thing-----all 13 yr old girls are a pain in the ass. Sometimes it seems it is their mission in life to drive their fathers crazy. This is one of the big reasons we need boats.

[mikev]

I wouldn't let her go she may hate it now but when she grows up she will thank you later. Its though and we will be praying for you and your family.

[BlownCrewCab]

One day down the road she'll see/Realize what a Slacker her mom is and be thankful she stayed with you. I'd keep her and not let her pick up the slacker habits of her mom. Teens think they know whats best for them (they Don't)

[Team Jefe]

Jefe, you nailed it, you know I don't want that,... and by the way, graduation is getting closer, gotta get the cooler and truck ready to go :yes:


Wayne

I'm ready Amigo:hyper::hyper: