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Conquistador_del_mar
08-03-2008, 12:13 PM
Yesterday, I finished replacing all the gold anodized bezels and adding some new anodized knobs on my 1985 Eliminator dash panel along with replacing the speedometer with a matching VDO 100MPH gauge that I was lucky to have found. I was surprised at how the anodized finish had either worn off through cleaning over the years or was "bleached out" by the sun. Has anyone else had this happen? Is it due to the sun or cleaning? I realize that it is a very thin layer of pigmented color. (sorry about my leg in the second shot - lol) Bill

Madcow
08-03-2008, 12:44 PM
I have seen anodizing completly dissaper. It is NOT UV stable.:doh:

gcarter
08-03-2008, 12:45 PM
Bill, I think there's a jillion types of anodizing.....some of it will hold up, but of course, it costs more. I no longer remember the specs, but some will hold up very well in salt spray for long periods.

DonziJon
08-03-2008, 01:01 PM
I couldn't remember what I used to know about anodizing so I looked it up just now. George made me do it. Check this out. It's pretty informative. Probably even more than you need to know. :doh: John

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anodized_aluminum

BigGrizzly
08-03-2008, 01:35 PM
One thing I do know besides the UV thing is gold is the worst in anodizing for deterioration so my uncle who was a color designer.

Last Real Texan
08-03-2008, 01:43 PM
I have some anodized ( Aluminum ) hose seperaters for my external stainless steel steering hoses...After 2 years the anodizing that is under water while the boat is in the water are completelt silver now, the upper ones still look new, of course they are never submerged . Go figure....

Anything i do on the boat will from now on be Powder coated....




Tex

Captain Steve
08-03-2008, 03:15 PM
I am a plater and unless the anodize is sealed with a Nickel acetate seal and preformed properly at the right temp,time,ph and concentrations it will always fade.The Mil-Spc anodize houses will always do it right. Anodize will fade from UV and caustic cleaning solutions if not done properly. If you go out to have stuff anodized always ask for a uv seal and ask them to certify the job.You pay for what you get. Look at our Navy planes , their is a lot of anodize on them and it stands up very well. :cool:

The Hedgehog
08-03-2008, 06:16 PM
I am a plater and unless the anodize is sealed with a Nickel acetate seal and preformed properly at the right temp,time,ph and concentrations it will always fade.The Mil-Spc anodize houses will always do it right. Anodize will fade from UV and caustic cleaning solutions if not done properly. If you go out to have stuff anodized always ask for a uv seal and ask them to certify the job.You pay for what you get. Look at our Navy planes , their is a lot of anodize on them and it stands up very well. :cool:

You sound like someone we need to know. That is great info.

What kinds of stuff do you plate?

TXDONZI
08-03-2008, 08:55 PM
Yeah... We're going to need a telephone number and shipping address!!!

roadtrip se
08-03-2008, 09:24 PM
for stainless steel ones from Livorsi for this reason. The old ones had a crazing chalky thing happening that was ugly and I had never put any chemicals on them.

Conquistador_del_mar
08-04-2008, 01:23 AM
Bill, I think there's a jillion types of anodizing.....some of it will hold up, but of course, it costs more. I no longer remember the specs, but some will hold up very well in salt spray for long periods.

I was under the false presumption that anodizing always protected the aluminum - evidently not. Bill


I couldn't remember what I used to know about anodizing so I looked it up just now. George made me do it. Check this out. It's pretty informative. Probably even more than you need to know. :doh: John

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anodized_aluminum

John,
I didn't really understand all the technical lingo, but I appreciate the link. Thanks. Bill


One thing I do know besides the UV thing is gold is the worst in anodizing for deterioration so my uncle who was a color designer.

I have to wonder why the color makes a difference - maybe gold is applied differently than other pigments?


I am a plater and unless the anodize is sealed with a Nickel acetate seal and preformed properly at the right temp,time,ph and concentrations it will always fade.The Mil-Spc anodize houses will always do it right. Anodize will fade from UV and caustic cleaning solutions if not done properly. If you go out to have stuff anodized always ask for a uv seal and ask them to certify the job.You pay for what you get. Look at our Navy planes , their is a lot of anodize on them and it stands up very well. :cool:

I would think that sellers like Rex and Eddie's would only sell properly protected anodized pieces since they know the pieces will be used in the relatively harsh marine environment - I suppose I could call and ask. I don't guess there is any way to tell how the anodizing is done by looks alone. Do you think I should clear coat the pieces before installing? I just cleared the polished aluminum pieces for my Donzi project since I know they are not protected. Thanks for the input. Bill

The Hedgehog
08-04-2008, 07:42 AM
I here that red is the worst when exposed to UV and thats why some of the folks like Rex and Eddie will anodize things bleu but then powdercoat the same part when it comes to the red.

Captain Steve
08-04-2008, 09:41 PM
Anodize does protect aluminum . It has to be preformed properly. A lot of things can go wrong during the process. Bad anodize can look good but the protection is not. A good Anodize goes into the surface of the aluminum about .0002 deep ,then you dye it with what ever color dye you have then you seal it. The dye is only skin deep and so is the seal but the seal drys hard and seals the color in and protecs the color from UV . An easy way to check anodize is with an ohm meter .Take the probe ends and touch the aluminum in differnt locations , you should read an open circut. Anodized aluminum can not conduct electricity how ever it does'nt tell you how good the seal is or the UV protection is. Un protected aluminum will oxidize , the white powder is aluminum hydroxide ,all it takes is a littel moisture. That's why you can't paint directly on aluminum.
Go to a good Mil-spec house or NadCap house ask for the cert pay the price and your done for ever.

Conquistador_del_mar
08-05-2008, 01:26 AM
Anodize does protect aluminum . It has to be preformed properly. A lot of things can go wrong during the process. Bad anodize can look good but the protection is not. A good Anodize goes into the surface of the aluminum about .0002 deep ,then you dye it with what ever color dye you have then you seal it. The dye is only skin deep and so is the seal but the seal drys hard and seals the color in and protecs the color from UV . An easy way to check anodize is with an ohm meter .Take the probe ends and touch the aluminum in differnt locations , you should read an open circut. Anodized aluminum can not conduct electricity how ever it does'nt tell you how good the seal is or the UV protection is. Un protected aluminum will oxidize , the white powder is aluminum hydroxide ,all it takes is a littel moisture. That's why you can't paint directly on aluminum.
Go to a good Mil-spec house or NadCap house ask for the cert pay the price and your done for ever.

Thanks for the great information! My guess is that I will be seeing very little resistance when I check my new parts tomorrow with a VOM, but I will keep my fingers crossed. I am having a few of my other parts powder coated with translucent gold - I know those will hold up. Bill

fegettes
08-05-2008, 10:31 AM
Anodize does protect aluminum . It has to be preformed properly. A lot of things can go wrong during the process. Bad anodize can look good but the protection is not. A good Anodize goes into the surface of the aluminum about .0002 deep ,then you dye it with what ever color dye you have then you seal it. The dye is only skin deep and so is the seal but the seal drys hard and seals the color in and protecs the color from UV . An easy way to check anodize is with an ohm meter .Take the probe ends and touch the aluminum in differnt locations , you should read an open circut. Anodized aluminum can not conduct electricity how ever it does'nt tell you how good the seal is or the UV protection is. Un protected aluminum will oxidize , the white powder is aluminum hydroxide ,all it takes is a littel moisture. That's why you can't paint directly on aluminum.
Go to a good Mil-spec house or NadCap house ask for the cert pay the price and your done for ever.

Steve,

I have a Blackhawk with a couple of pieces of gold anodized hardware in need of re-anodizing. Can you do this? And do you have some contact info?

Thanks.

Steve

BigGrizzly
08-05-2008, 11:00 AM
The blackhawk wasn't just anodized it was plated too.

Captain Steve
08-05-2008, 11:16 AM
Hi Steve,
I also have a BlackHawk, where is their gold anodize on it ? I think everything is a Crappy gold plate or it has been nitrited to look like gold but in either case feel free to call me at my shop and ask for Steve jr. 718-782-8722
Thanks,
Steve

fegettes
08-05-2008, 05:20 PM
Hi Steve,
I also have a BlackHawk, where is their gold anodize on it ? I think everything is a Crappy gold plate or it has been nitrited to look like gold but in either case feel free to call me at my shop and ask for Steve jr. 718-782-8722
Thanks,
Steve

I had the vents and hatch hinges gold plated. But, the exhust tips are are looking dull. Or, maybe you have a good suggestion for cleaning the tips.

Steve

Captain Steve
08-05-2008, 06:47 PM
Yes the exhaust pipes are a pain , I personally did mine over and in three months they looked like crap ... I just did a nickel strike and gold plated them and the plating failed just like the original plating did. I think their made of a poor alloy of stainless and thats why their failing. I am going to try something different and put .001 of Hi Phos Electroless Nickel on them , polish them and then gold plate them. I will have a nice barrier of nickel to protect the gold from the crappy stainless. I will let you know how well this works.

Conquistador_del_mar
08-16-2008, 11:25 AM
I just got back a few parts for my Eliminator that I had gold powder coated. A young guy at my boat storage facility is doing powder coating in addition to his regular job. He used gold translucent powder to do these parts - two fuel fills, the ski tow eye, and the shifter. He had to send the chromed fuel fills and ski tow through the process twice to get the gold finish to look rich enough. I dismantled the fuel fills before he picked them up since the parts needed to be done separately. I thought they turned out great and I will be giving him a few more parts to powder coat. He told me he has enough powder left out of the 1 pound bag to do almost 8 times what I already had done and that it won't cost as much since I already paid for the gold. He only charged $60 for these parts which included the 1 pound of gold. The flash of my camera took out some of the gold look, but they are a fairly rich gold. It has been a long time since I had something anodized by a shop, but I think this might be the way to go. At least I am relatively certain that the powder coating will last and it looks great. I also thought the price was good. Just thought I would pass this along. Bill

gcarter
08-16-2008, 12:03 PM
I had the rub rails on the Minx powder coated red.....a lot of folks here didn't like the red. Too bad.
But the powder coating lasted far beyond anything I expected. The day I sold it, the rails were still unscratched.
The problem w/large parts is finding someone w/ovens large enough to fit them in.
There's a shop here in Leesburg you can literally drive cars into their ovens.
At the time there was a flat $200.00 racking charge. It's probably more now, but the outcome is worth it.
That's a heck of a lot cheaper than plating.

joseph m. hahnl
08-21-2008, 03:50 PM
I have a 1958 aluminum Feather craft.The entire boat is gold anodize.
" inside and out !" At some point some one painted it . I stripped all the paint off minus the inside . I have no idea how long the paint was on for. The only fading is on the racing stripe on the bow. The hull is still as vibrant as the day it was anodized. There is some blue anodize where the insignia goes and the bottom is natural aluminum. "Yes" Silver,Blue & Gold the stuff dreams are made of. So for 50 yrs it has lasted. Like Steve said "when it's done right it will last forever.http://www.feathercraft.net/image-viewer.htm?catalogs/1959/59hawkiifc.jpg

v-drive
08-21-2008, 11:18 PM
I own a powdercoat shop in Kingston, Tennessee. My oven is 18 feet long, and we do powdercoating for several of the new boat companys here in east Tennessee, if I can be of any help to anybody call me at 865-376-4511. Richy.

Conquistador_del_mar
08-22-2008, 12:47 AM
I own a powdercoat shop in Kingston, Tennessee. My oven is 18 feet long, and we do powdercoating for several of the new boat companys here in east Tennessee, if I can be of any help to anybody call me at 865-376-4511. Richy.

Richy,
George had his rubrail powder coated, but I assume after the bends were already made. Wouldn't the powder coated finish crack if one were to get the rubrails powder coated and then try to install them? - making the sharp bends at the transom corners. Bill

Conquistador_del_mar
08-22-2008, 12:55 AM
I just got back a few parts for my Eliminator that I had gold powder coated. A young guy at my boat storage facility is doing powder coating in addition to his regular job. He used gold translucent powder to do these parts - two fuel fills, the ski tow eye, and the shifter. He had to send the chromed fuel fills and ski tow through the process twice to get the gold finish to look rich enough. I dismantled the fuel fills before he picked them up since the parts needed to be done separately. I thought they turned out great and I will be giving him a few more parts to powder coat. He told me he has enough powder left out of the 1 pound bag to do almost 8 times what I already had done and that it won't cost as much since I already paid for the gold. He only charged $60 for these parts which included the 1 pound of gold. The flash of my camera took out some of the gold look, but they are a fairly rich gold. It has been a long time since I had something anodized by a shop, but I think this might be the way to go. At least I am relatively certain that the powder coating will last and it looks great. I also thought the price was good. Just thought I would pass this along. Bill

Steve,
It dawned on me that it sounded like I stepped on your anodizing business, but I didn't mean to make it sound like powder coating was better than anodizing. What I meant to imply was that in my area, I can find competant powder coating people, but I don't know anyone capable of anodizing properly. I was disappointed that I had to replace the pieces that came from the big suppliers just because they weren't apparently done properly. I boat in fresh water only so it must really be a problem for the salt water boaters. Bill

v-drive
08-22-2008, 03:12 PM
It would be best if the rub rail could be bent before its coated. We do hand rails that go around pontoon boats and they are bent after being powdercoated. It's not the best way to do it, but the pontoon company choses to do it that way because of easier transportation. Steve I have a 1964 RAYSON CRAFT SK circle boat that had anodized hardware and I would like to keep it period correct. I'd like to call and ask a few questions. Thanks. Richy

superhatz
08-23-2008, 12:26 AM
I've been hoping to do my rub rails in gold like they were originally......the powder coat looks great!......they'd need a big oven right?

v-drive
08-24-2008, 12:36 AM
I don't know how long your rub rails are, I can do about 16-18 feet. Car frames is about the largest thing that I do but in the larger cities you can find powdercoat ovens 20-30 feet long.