18 or 22?

[bgagne]

I need a little advice, having a hard time deciding which direction to go in. I can not
decide if I should spend $10 - $15K for a 1986 to 1988 18 classic, or spend
approx. $25k for late 90's 22 classic. I do most of my boating on Lake Erie and my
last boat was a 1998 Formula 271 Fasttech. I took a 22 classic for a test drive one
year prior to buying the Formula and if my memory is correct, I think that it rode just
as good if not better than my Formual did. I have never ridden in an 18 but have
always loved the way they look.
I plan on buying a larger cruiser in a couple of years and would like to buy a Donzi to
keep for years to come. Are there any known problems with either of the models
that I am considering? (fuel tanks, stringers, etc). Any advice would be appreciated.

[Dr. Dan]

B, We have discussed this before here, you may want to do a "search" on 22 vs 18, or Classic vs ZX? You can't go wrong with either.... :D We have a "93 22 Classic...that we haul all over the place, we boat in the Chesapeake Bay all of the time....if you are in an area that gets rougher water on a regular basis, you may want to lean toward the 22. If you are on calmer water the 18 is fine...they are really 2 different boats/hulls and I recommend you go drive both before you buy! wink Both are terrific rides, but clearly the 18 feels more like the "Top of the Water Feel" ...try to hook up with Ranman or some of the boys from Michigan(there are alot of Donzis up there) and drive both.....you'll understand what I mean! The 18 is by far the most popular of the Classics,capable of very high speed,great handling, and easy to trailer....but the 22 offers some "freeboard for you to actually sit down in" offering a somewhat more secure feel when a rogue wake or wave comes up at speed, it too is capable of very high speeds an offers more rough water forgiveness than its little brother(s). I love them all, we just happen to luck out and get a 22, I would still love to grab up a 16 and an 18 someday...I have witnessed unbelievable performance in all styles 16,18 and 22's and Z's I would check them all out and make an informed decision, or head down to Florida next week and join in the "Reindeer Games" at the Owners Rally, ride in them all at one Event, it's an easy way to compare and directly have feedback for such an important decision in your search for a cure for Donzitis.... :D ...Good Luck in your research...it's a great stage you're in right know, just do not rush, take your time...you're among the best boat owner group on the planet! "Don't Believe Us,Just Ask Us! :p ...Doc

[harbormaster]

If you can afford it, have a place to put it, and have something that will tow it, BUY the 22 classic. The 22 is a lot more comfortable and handles rough water much, much better. There are conditions where you can take a 22, that an 18 would be borderline unsafe.

I love my 18. It is a different fun than the 22, but I would rather be having 22 kinda fun.

[Ranman]

I agree with the Harbormaster. I own an 18 Classic and love it. It is though an inland lake boat. I do some boating on Lake St. Clair, but that water is the MAX for an 18 and often times an 18 on LSC is not a comfortable ride. If you plan to spend your time on Erie, go for the 22. Lastly, my boat buying motto is "buy as new as you can afford". Randy

[bgagne]

I appreciate the responses already, keep them coming.

Tow vehicle - F250 Powerstroke, not a problem.
Storage - winters, Father in law has 40 x 100 pole barn, not a problem.
Summers - I live with in 1 mile of 3 different marinas, the only problem is I am a little uptight a
about keeping my boat clean, the rack and launch set up just does not work out. I will have to
measure my garage depth and see if the 22 will fit in there. How much extra room do I need
for the trailer tongue and outdrive?

Going to look at a 97, 22 today. I had hoped to wait until spring, but there seem to be alot of
boats going up for sale lately.

[RH]

Take care and caution in looking for the right boat! I feel that now is a great time to buy a boat if you have storage capabilities. The 16 and 18's are great boats, but for the water that you plan on boating on, I would opt for the 22. As for marina storage, I am more comfortable with having the boat close to me in my own confines. It sounds as though you have a great tow vehicle, so that should not be a problem if you do not mind hitching up and heading for some boat ramp fun. If money were no opbject, I would have a 16, an 18 and of course a 22! Good luck and good hunting, there will be the right boat for you in your future. I also think that the winter is a great time to find some boats as well. Tax season is upon us and some people start to get ansty to free up some cash if they get into any financial situations, so I have had success finding boats then as well.
RH

[HP 600SC]

bgagne, mine may be more than your wanting to spend but its THE deal. Click below.....

http://www.donzi.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000414

[BigGrizzly]

I till own bth hulls. Each has there merrits in both calm and rough water. Beleive in some rough waters I would rather be in the 18, others the 22. Its hard to explain. The 18 is so agile. My wife says the 22 is like an SUV and the 18 is a Corvette. The main thing to remember the 22 has more room. Here is the funny thing in the rough water the 18 can go slower than the 22 and ride ok, the 22 is harder to control at slow planing speeds. the 22 goes faster nicer in rough, and the 18 flys every chance it gets. I have ridden them back to back in the same stuff. Make no mistake in real rough watre bigger is better as long as it is a Donzi

[FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack]

What kind of vehicle is needed to tow a 22?
I ask for two reasons: first, one of the 18' barrelbacks I was considering buying has slipped through my hands, and I'm thinking of just waiting another year and going for a 22, and second, my wife and I are considering the purchase of our next vehicle.
Because of my wife's job,we're eligible for Ford's X price program, so we're leaning heavily toward an Explorer. I've been warned away from the V8, because it's not worth the price and mileage differences over the 4L V6.
Would I be able to tow a 22' with the 6 cyl Explorer, or would the vehicle force my hand toward buying an 18'?

Eric

[Formula Jr]

The 22's are beautiful boats, but they seem alittle like overkill for a run-about. The Hornets, Criterions, GTs and alot of the Donzis in this size are huge day boats. In my mind, if I'm buying something over 18 feet, it should have a cuddy cabin and a head. The door that a cuddy will open, is wide and the ability to overnight in a boat triples the pleasure you can get out of it. It comes down to how you foresee future uses of the boat and what features you really want. The choice between an 18 or a 22, AS A DAY BOAT, points to the 18 as the practical choice.

Eric, you'll need more than an Explorer to tow a 22. Not enough wheel base.

[CDMA]

Owen I really disagree. The 22 is not too big for a day boat. Take an 18 or your Jr to Lake Winni, the Long Island Sound or even Lake George at times and tell me it is a big enough. To me both boats are great but to compare them is pointless. The biggest similarity they share is the Donzi name. The size difference between the two of them is so drastic there really is no point to make a comparison. That being said I think it is important to evaluate what is best for you not what is best for everyone else. I own a 18 and a 22 but the 22 has yet to be run. On nice week days out on the sound or calmer lakes I love the 18 more then anything and even after the completion of my 22 I do not foresee wanting to get rid of it. On a calm evening with a little chop there is nothing like the agility, handling, and sports car attributes of an 18. However take that same boat out on a rough weekend, at Lake Winni, or any kind of rough day and you will be wishing for that 22. Cliff and I ran the Lake Winni poker run this summer and while it was a blast but being in an 18 for even half a day can be abusive.

It depends what you want and what you do with it. There is no answer to which is a better boat because for one person the answer is different then another.

[RH]

I have pulled the 16, 18 22 and my Hornet 19. I have pulled them all with my Grand Cherokee V-8 and that is as small as I would want to pull the 22. We bought an Escalade for my wife and that pulls them all alot better than the Jeep. I would think that the Explorer with the V-6 would be at the max with the 18. Now if you aren't confused by now maybe we can add a few questions to the mix. As for day boats, my wife doesn't buy that notion. Going from a Century Coronado to the Hornet is like going from a station wagon to a sports car from a spacial standpoint. Not that she dislikes the Donzi, it's just that for taking the kids out tubing, she prefers the Coronado. For style, performance and design, nothing compares to the Donzi marque! Good luck and good hunting!
RH

[Formula Jr]

I've had lots of time on The Bay in three to five with a 17 foot boat and never thought much about it. When they get to six you of coarse have to slow down and play it alittle. Same would be true for a 22. But if someone is considering a 22 foot boat, there's Z21's, ZX 22's, blackwidow 24's, etc out there that offer the advantage of a cabin and a head. If you're in for a penny, why not take the pound, cause you'll need all the extra stuff, towing capacity, storage, larger engine, etc. for a 22 anyway. In alot of ways, the large day boat designs from Donzi: the Hornet III, C22 and all the others with no cuddy, don't make alot of sense. You can run all the afore mentioned areas with a cuddy style Donzi also. But the cuddy will make for larger possibilities. Somewhere around the 22 foot length is where I personally make the cut-off, which has no bearing on what someone else may or may not want. The C22 is a very specialized and capable boat. But it is after all is said and done, a run-about. And if you want a run-about, the C22 too me, seems excessive.

[Stix Magill]

My slant....

The 18 feels like your sitting on top of a rocket strapped to a surfboard. I love to drive sports cars, but if they are really small (Miatas, Boxters, TR6s, etc.), I feel out of place. At 6'3", I look like Frankenstein sitting in (on) a 18 classic. On the plus side, they are more exciting than some larger Donzis. My Minx is a 20' boat that I have been told feels very close to a 22 Classic. I have not had the pleasure of riding in a 22 yet, and I think if I had early enough, I would have waited and saved for one. You step down into these boats and the feel is more secure, drier, roomier (but not much).

Both are great, and you should definitely ride in both before you buy. You will have many strong opinions, but in the end, yours is the only one that counts!
Let us know what you decide!

[roadtrip se]

Put enough horsepower and rigging time into a Classic 22 and suddenly it doesn't feel that big after all. Anybody who doubts me is welcome to a ride at the AOTH3. Just bring your life vest and we'll be happy to show you what this "SUV" can do.
Jill now calls it the "wicked sister" to our old 502MPI boat. Incredible acceleration and torque. Total frickin' blast to drive. We love our 22...

Todd

PS By the way, Ted's boat is priced right for the thrills it will deliver. Somebody here needs to buy it!!!!!!!!!

[HP 600SC]

Thank's Todd! :D

[Dr. Dan]

Todd & Ted..I am sure somebody will buy Teds Boat...it is truly a fine ride...I hope it is at Sarasota so I can see it in person wink remember patience is a virtue? :D Anyway....I have pulled with a strong and torquey V-6(97 4-Runner) and I have pulled with a short wheel based V-8(F-150 Lightning) although I had "Air Lift Suspension Bags" in both vehicles to equallize the load transfer....the V-8 definitely out Horses the V-6, but actually the 4-Runner pulled our 22 better than the Lightning,on the highway, as long as there were not alot of hills.... :rolleyes: This season we bit the Bullet and bought a 2002 Z-71 Suburban, they only come with a 5300EFI, but with the "Tow Haul Mode" we have zero complaints on its towing capacity, the long wheelbase, 4 wheel disc brakes and extra weight almost 1500 more pounds than our other two vehicles with fuel, it is a great Tow Vehicle! :D Can you tow with less, absolutely, but you can get great deals on new or barely used rigs now(all types ,brands,sizes) with terrific interest and finance packages...try them all, you may be surprised, our Suburban was barely more than what I paid for the 4-Runner when it was new? BTW we still have all of the above vehicles, the older ones have over 170,000 miles on them and their still capable of attending Donzi Events(well, maybe not AOTH,very hilly)Good Luck, keep us posted, on boat and vehicles....don't worry about mileage when towing...they all suck, its a law of physics,except the Deisel Boys of course! :p ...Doc

[tailwind]

Hey guys and gulls:

18 or 22? Really a no brainer depending your toy status! I would think that all of us would love to have a "22". Having personaly picked my "91" Donzi up for say $12K with 50 hours, I was still looking at the Classic 22. Didnt take long to make the deal.

More to the point, Do you fly high performance single engine aircraft on a regular basis, such as Dalema? Have you any collateral hobbies such as sailing? Do you have a connection for our canine friends? If not for the above, you might consider Bryans 26!

Randy

[Rodger]

I totally understand what Big Grizzly is talking about I have the 22' and I have driven many an 18'and own a 16'. In some situations it does seem like the 18 handles better. Also the 22 is bulky and sluggish in quick maneuvers. If the water is rough enough, the 22' will be appreciated. If much of the time it will be not so rough, I think the 18'is more fun.

[BigGrizzly]

F racer Don't beleive that you 4l is close to a V8 been down that road. what they do is gear the heck out of the little beast than it screams at 70 mph and the gas is worse tham the 5.4. My two tow SUV are a Jeep grand Cherokee with a V8 and the Ford Expidition with th4 5.4 in it. It tows my 22 with 16 to the gal.
As for a large day boat wellll, Owen you have been out in the rain too long. The classics are exactly that Classic the other Donzis are just boats, if you wanta cabin don't settle for a cutty get a real cruiser of 30 feet or better .

[blackhawk]

My final choice was looks. Park them next to each other and they look like totally different boats. You can't beat the looks of the long, narrow bow of the 22(no offense to the 18 guys).

Eric, as far as pulling with a V-6 Explorer, it depends on how far you tow. I towed mine for a year with a Chevy ZR2 Blazer with a 4.3 V6. You could definitely tell it was back there when you were accelerating but on the highway it was fine. Everyone thinks short wheelbase vehicles don't pull well. That is not always true. My blazer would pull my boat 75-80 mph all day on the highway.

Then I bought a Chevy 1500 Z71 reg cab short box, 5300 engine and a 4.10 differentials. Could barely tell it was back there and could pull it as fast as you wanted.

I now have a Toyota Tundra with a 4.7 V-8. Pulls it great but my trailer sways more than both the Blazer and 1500 after 75 mph. But, the Mud Terrain tires I put on it have a lot to do with that! :D

[Formula Jr]

Ouch Randy! So the 28, Seven Meter and the 24's are not CLASSICS? Looks like you will be enjoying the rain soon enough. Hee Hee. :D I do agree that in certain seas a smaller boat feels less rough, but that all depends on the period of the waves you normally run in. The standard rule is length AND HP will always outrun a shorter/less powered boat in anything other than light chop. I think many people try to run 22's and over, in stuff they really should be playing, in the sense of precise throttle control and reading the waves. Sometimes that makes the ride very rough if they are just using the hull to "ride over" everything. I was recently in a 24 Cig where the pilot did this. And I wish I had a tooth guard. Cause you can in a longer boat - its, just more jarring.

[boldts]

bgagne, I too have had the pleasure of owning both an 18 Classic and now a 22 Classic. As far as tow vechicles, we towed the 18 with a S-10 V6 Blazer and it did fine. We then bought the larger Chevy Tahoe and you didn't even know the 18 was behind us. How-ever, now that we have a 22, I am thankful that I bought the Tahoe rather than another small Blazer which is the same size as the Explorer you are considering. If you step up to the Expedition or Excursion, towing what ever you buy will be an easy affair where-ever you want to go.

As for the Donzi Classic to buy, as others have already suggested, drive them both before you decide if money is no option. It is your choice, not ours! Your making the payments and doing the driving. You have to like it, not us! Now, with that said, I'll give you my views. I owned my 18 for 17 years before buying our 22. My wife and I love our 22 and I have driven both boats on Lake Erie as I live in Columbus, OH. The 18 didn't handle the over 3' swells as well as the 22, but it truely was a blast to drive and it's all about learning to throttle a boat in the ruff stuff. Last year at the Donzi Owners Rally, I drove my 18 across a very confused Sarasota bay to lunch and it probably was much easier for the 22 guys. I don't know, we all were catching some big air. Now that I own a 22, it can also be a real drivers boat. The only difference is you are down in the boat and you feel more secure. By no means in my oppinion would I call it a Lincoln Town Car although on an inland lake that is less than 2 footers at sunset, it feels like your driving a LTC. Smooth and easy. Almost a false since of security. Feels like 20 MPH when your going 60 +.

When Beth and I looked at a larger Donzi, it was because we have a 5 yr. old and was looking for more security for her which the 22 offers due to the way you are down in the boat. I have nothing against the Z boats and I also think that there is nothing better than length in the ruff stuff. You would think that having a family, it would have been the next step for us. I asked my wife which she wanted before we bought the 22 Classic. A 22 Classic or a 26ZX and well you know the rest. Our daughter loves the boat and while we don't have a cabin, were not missing it either. It's not like were making trips down the Ohio river in the boat and if we did, that's what hotels along with those quante little bed & breakfasts are for. As I mentioned first off, it's just a matter of what you want! You won't be disappointed in any Donzi you choose. If you need a 22 to drive, give me a call or e-mail me. I'd be glad to offer mine for you to try. :)

Scott Boldt
Midwest Donzi Club
www.mwdonziclub.com (http://www.mwdonziclub.com)

[bgagne]

I would like to really thank everyone for their input, especially Scott's offer to take his 22 for a ride. The jury is in. I am picking up a 1997 22 classic on Tuesday. The boat is in excellent shape, always stored on a lift, has a full cover, so the deck has been kept out of the sun, and it only has 28 hours on it. The owner is an older gentlemen who is not really able to use the boat much anymore. He claims to have never run the 454 magnum over 4000 rpm. After a couple of hours of use, I am sure that I will be asking quite a few more questions on how to squeeze a little more performance out of it. http://www.yachtworld.com/listing/yw_display_photo.jsp?boat_id=1026121&boatname=22%27+Donzi+Classic&photo_name=null&photo=1

[bgagne]

OK, I am an idiot and can not figure out how to attach the picture.

[bgagne]

http://images.yachtworld.com/1/0/2/1026121_1.jpg

I figured it out.

[smoothie]

Fine looking boat,you made a wise choice,you are going to have a great time on the big lake with it,I know I do with mine.

[Rootsy]

and we all know that Dr. Dan is gonna be tickled pink, err i mean teal, with your choice!!!

[boldts]

bgagne,
That is one fine looking 22 Classic. Can't wait to have the chance to both meet you and see the boat in person. You won't be needing my offer anymore I guess. If you get a chance, go to the Midwest Donzi Club website and become a member. It will also give you a chance to see where other Michigan owners live and the Donzi models they own. Heck, the MI contingent is big enough to start their own club if they wanted to. You all have some wonderful water up there to run on and I enjoy making the 4 hr. trip up when possible. It just amazes me how many Donzi boats and owners are out there that we're starting to find out about thanks to this website and the clubs being formed! Good luck with her!

[Dr. Dan]

Jamie, you are correct! Nice color for sure...Congrats...I have to read the previous posts to get a little info. on your new ride, any questions feel free to email me...Good Luck... wink ...Doc

[bgagne]

Dr. Dan, it looks like we may have a lot in common. I am also a Spartan.

[Dr. Dan]

:D Very Cool, it's a small world for sure, so is Tomahawk...look forward to seeing you around...we do a trip up to Burt Lake every so often...last year was awesome, until my brother tried to dislocate my shoulder by having me waterski behind my 22 Classic eek! , Liz ended up driving the boat the rest of the week, along with my brother, I think it was a plot :rolleyes: to take control of the Donzi! ... :cool: ...Talk Soon...Doc

[RH]

Bgagne, Great looking new ride! Only one thing we will disagree on.... I live in Iowa and am an Iowa Grad. In a few weeks it will be GO HAWKS!
RH

[Ranman]

Great looking boat.

Dr. Dan, How come I never get mention? I'm a Spartan too! See ya in Sarasota on Friday. :D

[Dr. Dan]

wink Sorry Randy...How careless of me....I'll buy you guys a drink or three this weekend :p ...Doc

[Dvo]

Since you are coming out of a larger Formula 271 Fast tech, I believe you made the right decision for a 22 Classic. My last boat was a Sonic SS24(former Donzi Hull mold) with twin modified Johnson GT 2.5's on Gil brackets. It was flighty to say the least, and hard to handle above 80. However, I do miss the extra size in rough seas.

The 22 Classic is great handling boat for its size. You'll some length to span the rough chop in Lake Erie on a windy day.

[bgagne]

This is looking like the best purchase that I have ever made. I have had the 22 out a couple of times this week, once in a good 3 - 4 foot chop and once flat calm. This boat is everthing that I have been looking for, quick to plane, very good throttle response (great for leaping off of waves), feels like a go-cart, easy to clean, great "classic speedboat look", ........ I only have 2 complaints: 1. on the trailer, it is about 1 foot too long to fit in my garage. 2. Why didn't I buy this 4 years ago?