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View Full Version : More HP with less displacement.



joseph m. hahnl
07-17-2008, 05:34 PM
I keep noticing that every body still believes in the
"No Replacement For Displacement"

But what I see in Todays world there is so much technology and after market high tech, high performance parts. It would seem more cost effective and more gratifying to punch up the hp in the stock motor . Rather then buying a bigger stock Motor.

So I say we start a list of out of the box Mods to a stock motor that will push our HP up with out buying a new crate motor.

Stroked steel crank even though is more displacement is an acceptable mod. althoe it does seem to entail a lot of parts to do it.

So lets hear it what you all think

BlownCrewCab
07-17-2008, 05:39 PM
Blower, SuperCharger, Turbo....It's Sooo Much fun I don't think I'll ever have a Non Boosted Vehicle again. Was the easiest 150+HP I ever did.

Firehawk853
07-18-2008, 07:53 AM
I recently upgraded from 350ci to 385 stroker, I don't think the engine was original but it runz real good now. I went with the 6" rod, .040" over. I went with forged pistons IF..MaYBe...later i wanted to bolt on a power adder...
The engine was completly beat, valves leaked, bearings were spanked. It was the best bang for the buck seeing as I had to rebuild it anyway.

Carl C
07-18-2008, 08:46 AM
Most marine engines are modified automotive engines that were not intended to work as hard as we make them work. A small block can make huge power for sure but is meant to only spend a few seconds at a time there. I believe that the physically smaller components are prone to fatique failure. Leave that supercharged 5.4 4 valve OHC 650 hp wonder in the Mustang and stick with a big block with lots of displacement to provide the continuous power we need for our boats. JMO. Racing may be another story if you don't mind rebuilding the motor after every race day............

olredalert
07-18-2008, 09:00 AM
------Dont forget that it isnt horsies that push these lumps thru the water but TORQUE. Torque and displacement go hand in hand most of the time. Displacement is cheap compared to the cost of developing horsepower. Unless you are up for frequent engine freshenings its common sense to build a larger displacement motor that runs a certain speed at a lower RPM. Now, reading this back I think Im showing my age some but, at least for me, it isnt all about top end. Its more about a great, somewhat economical cruising speed and a burst of speed thrown in every now and then. Lately it seems more like mostly then than now!!!..........Bill S

BigGrizzly
07-18-2008, 09:07 AM
What everybody keeps missing is when technology reaches the smaller displacement engines it also goes to the larger ones too so no magic here plain engineering. In my earlier days we use to scrounge to get 500 ponies out of a 454 race motor. Today we get that out of the same block ,make it streetable/boatable and then some. Again I will ask what is the cut off between a small bloc to a big block. Remember the terms came out in the late sixties to determine the big motors from the small motors in drag cars and mag articles depicting physical size. The Ford Cleveland was called a small big block by motor trend. SO what IS a Small Block? Remember a 406 Ford was a Big Block, so was a 348 wedge chevy and a 407 stroked chevy is not? There is still only two ways to make horse power and torque and that is more bangs or bigger bangs. There is only so much horsepower available from a gallon of gasoline, the trick is to use all the caloric heat it has available. Technology gets better every day and is spread equally across the board. I just have a hard time waiting for tomorrow. God if I knew 40 years ago what I know today I would be in all the history books!

gcarter
07-18-2008, 02:14 PM
What everybody keeps missing is when technology reaches the smaller displacement engines it also goes to the larger ones too so no magic here plain engineering. In my earlier days we use to scrounge to get 500 ponies out of a 454 race motor. Today we get that out of the same block ,make it streetable/boatable and then some. Again I will ask what is the cut off between a small bloc to a big block. Remember the terms came out in the late sixties to determine the big motors from the small motors in drag cars and mag articles depicting physical size. The Ford Cleveland was called a small big block by motor trend. SO what IS a Small Block? Remember a 406 Ford was a Big Block, so was a 348 wedge chevy and a 407 stroked chevy is not? There is still only two ways to make horse power and torque and that is more bangs or bigger bangs. There is only so much horsepower available from a gallon of gasoline, the trick is to use all the caloric heat it has available. Technology gets better every day and is spread equally across the board. I just have a hard time waiting for tomorrow. God if I knew 40 years ago what I know today I would be in all the history books!
Randy, I guess something is a small block ONLY if there's a bigger physical engine in the same brand.

gcarter
07-18-2008, 02:18 PM
I think it'll be interesting in a few years to see what we can do w/small Diesels.....the engines that aren't available yet. The drives are already there, we're just waiting on the engines. LOTS of torque....and maybe some unusual for us gear ratios. After all most automotive Diesels don't run much over 3600-4000 RPM.

cutwater
07-18-2008, 03:21 PM
I think it'll be interesting in a few years to see what we can do w/small Diesels.....the engines that aren't available yet. The drives are already there, we're just waiting on the engines. LOTS of torque....and maybe some unusual for us gear ratios. After all most automotive Diesels don't run much over 3600-4000 RPM.

I don't know how long it will take to get to that point, but I love the looks of the DPR by Volvo. Looks like pretty slippery, and built to handle TORQUE!

98shovel
07-18-2008, 05:42 PM
NITRO
thats how we do 750 hp harley

MOP
07-18-2008, 07:27 PM
The blue bottle seems to be missing from the thoughts! I only had one experience a ride in a Mustang with the bottle, even though there were no other mods it was very impressive to say the least. I am a lover of small blocks have been since the 50's, had a few that ran decent for the times but nothing like they are getting out of them now. When I was pondering the engine for my 22 a free but tired 502 was offered, I knew I did not need the ego booster and instead built a mild 383. I feel it turned out very well and puts a grin on my old puss!

BigGrizzly
07-19-2008, 10:48 AM
Honda is doing a Diesel for the Civic. Who knows where it will go. As for small vs big block the facial grin is what really counts. My poor old Corsican puts a grin on my face at at only 60 mph the Criterion puts a grin on my face too at a different speed. Both put a grin on my face uncovered sitting at my dock just thinking about them. When I got sick I went in the garage and would clime in them and KNOW I would be driving them that summer, just an attitude thing.

handfulz28
07-22-2008, 01:30 PM
Back up front...

Surprised nobody mentioned "easy" stuff like improving/perfecting airflow with cam/intake/heads. I'm no expert on what parts bolt on and work best with each other. But in the SBC area I've read that Vortec heads, even though still cast iron, can add a good HP bump on an otherwise stock Merc 260hp SBC. Throw a cam and intake in the mix, possibly a carb and even aftermarket exhaust, and that 260hp can be 320+hp without having to check the drive alignment. :yes:

The same parts swaps do the same for BBC, but I've learned there's a wider choice of options in "intake port style" for BBCs. It depends on what your goals for power are, but it seems that the best change someone can make on "mild" - up to 500hp - BBCs is actually going with a head/intake combo that has large oval ports. Most Merc BBCs are either small "peanut" ports, or large rectangle ports, neither of which are ideal for that 350-500hp range.

Also, something that it seems not a lot of people consider is "port matching" of the intake and exhaust to the cylinder head. Even if you're paying someone to do the work, it's worth it to pay for someone who knows what they're doing to make these improvements.

Once you start deciding that you want to pull the motor out, there's a lot that can be done to improve volumetric efficiency and reduce parasitic loss. Milling the block to improve quench, massage compression ratio with block/head milling and piston style, using windage trays and crank scrapers, managing tolerances and clearances so everything rotates smooth.

There's a LOT that can be done to increase HP before adding a blower and changing bore/stroke.

Carl C
07-22-2008, 01:54 PM
When I got sick I went in the garage and would clime in them and KNOW I would be driving them that summer, just an attitude thing. You know that there statement kind of chokes me up. Stay well, Griz.

BlownCrewCab
07-22-2008, 02:27 PM
Carl, Shouldn't you be 100's of miles away (from you computer) chasing bears and salmon...

The Hedgehog
07-22-2008, 05:12 PM
Blower, SuperCharger, Turbo....It's Sooo Much fun I don't think I'll ever have a Non Boosted Vehicle again. Was the easiest 150+HP I ever did.

Another vote for Boost!

gcarter
07-22-2008, 05:29 PM
I suppose all the upcoming automotive Diesels will be boosted also.

BigGrizzly
07-22-2008, 05:54 PM
Handfull28, you are correct. The thread started because on some newer GM engines on another thread and Joe Hahn started this one that we still believe there is no replacement for displacement. Most of us skip the ovel ports because 500 hp is not enough for our ultimate goal. It is easy to cam and carb or restrict an engine if the ports are too big(to a point). However it is harder to go the other way. Most do do port matching, but neglect to mention it. For some of us who do do engine wort it is relatively easy to know the combinations but others are at the mercy of speed shops, some good some bad. Our application in boats is significantly different then street jockys. Our engines are loaded down all the time compaired to an auto. Most of the time when a guy shows me his dyno sheet I can tell what kind of engines the engine builder is use to building. Your post was good. I am just directing the goal a little.

ky-donzi
07-22-2008, 10:16 PM
I dont know what will happen with Diesel engines. My guess is that if the cost of fuel doesn't go down then small engines won't be presuded much. With diesel costing 1.5 more a gallon, and the extra cost of the engine milage might not be a factor for a small car. I have had a lot of diesel equipment and have owned 4 diesel truck and for mid to large size engines there will always be a market.

The newer light weight 6.0, and 6.4 powerstrokes are capible of alot of Hp and torque. I installed a additional computer into my 6.0 that claims 430hp and 675 ft/lbs. Of course I don't have a dyno but seat of the pants..... it made a huge difference. Way more that prochargin my 18'. What would be intresting is to see someone do a powerstroke or durmax in a small to mid size boat.

I relize that there is more weight, but with the new turbo, and computer injections systems there is alot of HP to be had in mid size diesel engines

BigGrizzly
07-23-2008, 08:57 AM
KY the diesel is knocking on that door of small size engines. what is going to really matter is the final cost per mile. there are some new add campaigns that are going that route. As for the computer on the engines. they are closer to the stated numbers than you think, seen some real numbers on a dyno. I am actually considering that as a new boat engine option. If it happens I will do a whol spread. Since I know and documented my performance now a comparison will be neat. If it is worse I will need a good divorce lawyer.

ky-donzi
07-23-2008, 02:42 PM
Griz

I agree and disagree. i believe that the cost of the diesel engine compared to the cost of a gasoline engine in a small car, and the rising cost of diesel fuel might put a damper on that trend. If you have a comsumer looking to buy a compact car and see that the diesel cost 4000.00 more and fuel cost 1.00 more a gallon it will be a tough sell. NOW on the midsize and large engine like 350 cid and larger,,, diesel will be just as strong as ever, selling wise.

I would love to see someone put a hoppd up diesel in a boat. I bet it would fly, If I'm not mistaking most land speed records are set with diesels.

zelatore
07-23-2008, 03:31 PM
Griz

If I'm not mistaking most land speed records are set with diesels.

Some yes. But most? I wouldn't got that far.

Really, it comes down to what catagory you want to run it. And there are far more classes for gas than diesel.

Of course, the absolute top-speed guys aren't running either, but is it really a car at that point?

Spirit of America is HQ'ed in a little town about 15 miles from my home. The only diesels I've spotted around there are in the haulers.

BUIZILLA
07-23-2008, 03:32 PM
I can categorically assure you that diesel car engines are here to stay

it is projected that by 2015 more than 2.2 MILLION more diesel cars will be on the road in the USA

these will be high speed turbocharged engines

it costs less to build a 4 cyl turbo diesel than a turbo 6 cyl gas engine...

virtually 55% of new car sales in western Euro are diesel powered, my daughter was just in London 2 weeks ago and said diesel's were EVERYWHERE, she was also in Finland, Denmark, Sweden and Russia.... she KNOW'S what to look for :wink:

BigGrizzly
07-23-2008, 04:46 PM
Honda already has started in the diesel civic. Again the sell would be miles per Dollar. I have already seen the prototype commercials. The main problem eill be the general public acceptance, after that it is down hill. Remember WE ar not general public we are a little more informed.

ky-donzi
07-23-2008, 09:01 PM
Ok guys.. maybe,,, I really don't know. I just assume that since the diesel engine cost considerable more, and since diesel now cost about 1.00 more per gallon. I'm not sure how much of a sell it will be to the consumer. How much will they save from start to trade time. I may be getting in over my head saying that stuff.....

If I was buying a diesel car I would have to study the milage, cost, and maintaince very closely.... 6 years ago when diesel was .89 cents a gallon and gas was 1.78 it made alot more sense.

handfulz28
07-24-2008, 09:19 AM
Thanks BigGrizzly. I figured I'd be going against the tide for quite a few on here, but figured I throw out some ideas for people that are reading, and looking for other ideas. I tend to agree with no replacement for displacement, but it depends on your goals and whether you've optimized what you've got. Depending on the school of thought, a blower falls into the "increased displacement" category. :wink:

Since we seem to be throwing the diesel idea around in here, why do diesels cost more? Is it anything more than basic economics of a smaller production volume? Or is there a pollution tax added in there somewhere?

BigGrizzly
07-24-2008, 03:15 PM
Handfull I liked your post and the response you are going to fit in here just right. That being said welcome again. As to the diesel costing more you are right on the low volume. However after doing a cost analysis wile I was still at Honda after the tooling is done it will be the same cost, because they are all four stroke diesels. The is an emissions issue but that to is being rectified as we speak. Only time will tell. KY your thoughts are same as mine.

p729lws
07-24-2008, 10:58 PM
With Volks diesel Jettta's or whatever they are getting 55 MPG on a daily basis...

I'm thinking 40ish MPG max. Who say's they are getting 55 MPG? The old light weight Geo Metro's didn't get 55 mpg...

gcarter
07-25-2008, 06:48 AM
I'm thinking 40ish MPG max. Who say's they are getting 55 MPG? The old light weight Geo Metro's didn't get 55 mpg...
They do get 55 MPG (turbo Diesel). Minxguy has two of them and they get over 700 miles per tank in town.

p729lws
07-25-2008, 11:17 AM
They do get 55 MPG (turbo Diesel). Minxguy has two of them and they get over 700 miles per tank in town.


What year? Is it the TDI model? I'm hearing the 2009's are low 40's.

Dan

gcarter
07-25-2008, 11:25 AM
What year? Is it the TDI model? I'm hearing the 2009's are low 40's.
Dan
There isn't a 2008 model and the 2009's are going in an entirely different direction, I understand, so you might be correct. But from 2000-2007, they do it.

CJmike
07-25-2008, 11:30 AM
New low sulfar diesel has hurt diesel mileage across the board. (personal observation and surveys of other diesel owners) New diesels that meet the new emission standards all get lower mileage than the model they replaced. This is based on pick up diesels(F-350, Silverado 3500, Ram 3500) feed back I have been hearing.

p729lws
07-25-2008, 07:19 PM
There isn't a 2008 model and the 2009's are going in an entirely different direction, I understand, so you might be correct. But from 2000-2007, they do it.


I still can't find any literature on a Jetta TDI of any year that got more than 42 MPG EPA hwy, let alone 55 MPG. I'll man up and confess to owning a '93 Geo Metro convertable that got 40 mpg with the top down, the A/C on and a brick on the go pedal running up hill for several hours across the US at 85 mph on the way to church hill downs. I don't think I ever saw more that 50 mpg in the best conditions with the Geo...

Someone point me to one of these 55 mpg Jetta's so I can park the Suburban...

Dan

gcarter
07-25-2008, 08:38 PM
Ask Minxguy. Ken is a stand up guy.
BTW, his '06 is an incredibly nice car. You'd think you were in a Mercedes.

BigGrizzly
07-26-2008, 09:26 AM
I don't want to break everyone's bubble but Hondas Have been doing the 40 plus thing since 1972. the problem is when the buyers want more luxury, it cost not only price but weight, size, aerodynamics etc. When the public wants more performance more luxury and a bigger passenger compartment it cost. The Civic today is larger then the Accord 10 years ago etc. With diesel and the newer regs on particulate matter and NOX etc it will take a little mpg away. It is incredible that the auto industry has come this far, giving the executive's want for bigger profits and the worker wanting a bigger piece of the pie. This doesn't leave much for research on economy. The government is pushing on environment and fleet average. This is driving some of the research. /\This is the tip of the iceberg.

p729lws
07-26-2008, 06:01 PM
I don't want to break everyone's bubble but Hondas Have been doing the 40 plus thing since 1972. the problem is when the buyers want more luxury, it cost not only price but weight, size, aerodynamics etc. When the public wants more performance more luxury and a bigger passenger compartment it cost. The Civic today is larger then the Accord 10 years ago etc. With diesel and the newer regs on particulate matter and NOX etc it will take a little mpg away. It is incredible that the auto industry has come this far, giving the executive's want for bigger profits and the worker wanting a bigger piece of the pie. This doesn't leave much for research on economy. The government is pushing on environment and fleet average. This is driving some of the research. /\This is the tip of the iceberg.

Exactly, there was an article in auto week a few weeks ago about how the Honda's from several years ago got better mileage than the new ones due to the lower weight.

MSN Auto has the 2006 Jetta TDI at 36 city and 42 hwy.

Anybody got a 55 mpg Jetta???

Dan

BUIZILLA
07-26-2008, 06:05 PM
Anybody got a 55 mpg Jetta???

i've never heard of one, especially on ULSD..

Donziweasel
07-26-2008, 06:27 PM
Small diesels have been around forever. The interesting thing is how the new F-150's diesel will be. I think 1/2 tons should have had a diesel option years ago. Hat's off to Ford for doing it, would love to see one in the Expedition for Boo Boo. I hear Chevy isn't too far behind. Nothing pulls and runs like a TD at altitude or in the mountains. Gas engines fall off way more than their diesel counterparts up here. Makes up for diesel being more expensive in my book.

CHACHI
07-26-2008, 07:06 PM
Thanks George, you made me walk out to my car to look at the owners manual to check my tanks capcity.
Total tank capacity 14.5 gallons which includes a 1.9 gallon reserve.
Low fuel light comes on with Approx 1.9 left in the tank.
I have travelled 730ish miles, (approx 240 miles at 70-72 MPH, 120miles at 45ish, 220 at say 60 MPH, and the balance at 50 MPH) and the low fuel light didn't come on yet.

This is my average weekend trip up to my camp and it doesn't vary unless I am fighting headwinds on the New York State Thruway. The car is an 2000 Jetta 5 speed with 231,000 on it. Originial clutch and exhaust.

My wife drives an '06 Jetta automatic and around town with the a/c on she is pulling down 45.5 per the digital readout.

Can I live with 90 hp? I guess so, be doing it for a while.

People who have "chipped" them and changed the nozzles are seeing even better milage.

Ken

gcarter
07-26-2008, 08:07 PM
Thanks George, you made me walk out to my car to look at the owners manual to check my tanks capcity.
Total tank capacity 14.5 gallons which includes a 1.9 gallon reserve.
Low fuel light comes on with Approx 1.9 left in the tank.
I have travelled 730ish miles, (approx 240 miles at 70-72 MPH, 120miles at 45ish, 220 at say 60 MPH, and the balance at 50 MPH) and the low fuel light didn't come on yet.

This is my average weekend trip up to my camp and it doesn't vary unless I am fighting headwinds on the New York State Thruway. The car is an 2000 Jetta 5 speed with 231,000 on it. Originial clutch and exhaust.

My wife drives an '06 Jetta automatic and around town with the a/c on she is pulling down 45.5 per the digital readout.

Can I live with 90 hp? I guess so, be doing it for a while.

People who have "chipped" them and changed the nozzles are seeing even better milage.

Ken
Ken, I'm just glad you showed up.
I was getting weary holding up your honor.

CHACHI
07-27-2008, 05:04 AM
Ken, I'm just glad you showed up.
I was getting weary holding up your honor.
After all the sanding you are doing, you definatly have the shoulders for it.
Thanks,
Ken

joseph m. hahnl
07-27-2008, 12:49 PM
Griz



I would love to see someone put a hopped up diesel in a boat. I bet it would fly, If I'm not mistaking most land speed records are set with diesels.


How about two??????http://www.donzimarine.com/flash/donzi.htm
check out the zsc 41 twin diesel 17000 lbs boat that goes 55mph

CHACHI
07-27-2008, 01:48 PM
Imco took a Duramax and stuffed it in a West coast something. Bolted on one of their Hi Performance outdrives. Ran pretty well. I believe it was in Powerboat a few months bak.

Ken

gcarter
07-27-2008, 02:17 PM
The Europeans have been performing very well w/high performance Diesels for years...I think the offshore Diesel record is over 180 MPH.

p729lws
07-27-2008, 02:46 PM
Can I live with 90 hp? I guess so, be doing it for a while.
Ken

When I test drove the Geo Convertible it accelerated so slowly I was sure something was wrong w/ it so I pulled over, popped the hood and saw the 1 liter 3 cylinder 55 HP motor.....

According to your numbers your getting close 58 mpg. MSN has the 2000 TDI at 45-49 mph hwy. Looks like your doing something right.

Dan

joseph m. hahnl
07-27-2008, 05:00 PM
Sorry to interrupt your diesel war here children!!!!!!

This thread was about modifying an engine: Big bang for low bucks.
Instead of high dollar for a stock crate motor.

Once again it has turned into something from Monty Pythons Flying Circus.

Reading through a lot of these post and threads. I can see that most of you haven't got a clue on basic principles of internal combustion.
Quite frankly turning the key to on may be the limit to your Knowledge.
Some of you do talk a good show(But some of us see Through the smoke and mirrors)

Neither here or there it makes for a great laugh .
But not at the expense of the naive please .


my point was that any body can buy a 525hp 505 and stuff it in.
Where's the gratification in that.

Stuffing a turbo charged diesel is also changing the existing power plant.
This would not be an option for same displacement, raise the HP of an existing motor. I never said that a big block was Immune to modification. Nor did I say it had to be a small block.

For instance there are some who would replace a 496cid with a 505cid.
when you certainly could modify the 496cid beyond conventional wisdom.
Mighty Mouse fits this profile Does it not?

How much pride and joy do you think George had making a one of a kind power drive package.


To bring it into the relative world . Take a Harley Davidson .A true enthusiast will stroke it, carb, and pipe it. Make it his own.Not to even touch on paint and chrome. There are those that would buy it from Orange County, West Coast or even Ultra choppers. They will then tell you how great they are because they bought it out of the box already done for them. Why do you think the V-Rod with all of its HP and sharp looks will never out sell an 40hp FXST. There are those who prefer the modified one of a kind power that they did them selves.Other wise why not just buy a jap bike.

So the same goes for boats. There are people here that actually do all the work to their boats and much prefer to have non stock power.
For instance putting a blower on .You can hear and see the excitement about what was done and how pleased they are about doing it them selves. I could go on and on, so I won't

Just the mods please.

gcarter
07-27-2008, 06:21 PM
Sorry Joe...I guess I got mislead by the title of the thread......."More HP w/less displacement".
A small Diesel (say three Liters) w/high boost will be capable of 350-400 HP and 400 lb/ft of torque...for awhile at least.

BigGrizzly
07-27-2008, 06:46 PM
J Hahn, I see your point and agree for the most part. Some people just are not mechanically inclined, yet they want to have more speed and can afford or scrape to buy it and my hat is off to them just for the self sacrifices they make. There is a good board member who is a great guy but does not do mechanical work however his bling and other attributes far over shadow any mechanical deficiencies he may have. Some people think I do nothing but blow smoke and know zip. The engine thing is more then bolting pieces together. Its knowing which ones work together for the best result for the APPLICATION! I for one have no problem having these guys buy the stuff and plug it in. It saves the rest of us towing them in!:shocking: I can honestly say that I did not bolt my engine completely by myself, while I was at work some others decided to save me some time and assembled some parts for me, good friends are hard to find. There is some smoke and mirrors and also "I know more then you" that goes on. I just feel sorry for them. on the other hand there is a particular board member who is an extremely good technician, and never gets into any discussions he just helps others who are not able to do it them selves. The point is we have all of them, but I wouldn't trade them.
As for the diesel transplant, Imco has been working on a Duramax coupled with their extreme drive, BTW they have a new one now. It is a great endeavor and I am leaning in that direction, if I re power.

Donziweasel
07-27-2008, 06:51 PM
Sorry to interrupt your diesel war here children!!!!!!

This thread was about modifying an engine: Big bang for low bucks.
Instead of high dollar for a stock crate motor.

Once again it has turned into something from Monty Pythons Flying Circus.

Reading through a lot of these post and threads. I can see that most of you haven't got a clue on basic principles of internal combustion.
Quite frankly turning the key to on may be the limit to your Knowledge.
Some of you do talk a good show(But some of us see Through the smoke and mirrors)

Neither here or there it makes for a great laugh .
But not at the expense of the naive please .


Jeez, lighten up.

joseph m. hahnl
07-28-2008, 02:33 PM
Jeez, lighten up.
I wasn't picking on any body in particular. Just in general.I'm sorry if some or any one was offended. I just didn't want this to turn into a pissing war on fuel mileage in a diesel.the statements I made were not directly associated with this thread. Yes I agree your all a lovely bunch of coconuts.:tongue:

cutwater
07-28-2008, 04:01 PM
check out the zsc 41 twin diesel 17000 lbs boat that goes 55mph


Sorry to interrupt your diesel war here children!!!!!!

??? Diesels are a good way to make usable HP and monster torque in a marine application with relatively small displacement. I don't think anyone was trying to hijack the thread...

Carl C
08-04-2008, 08:07 AM
Carl, Shouldn't you be 100's of miles away (from you computer) chasing bears and salmon... lol, boy did this thread go OT!:eek!: I did finally see a bear. A medium size black bear trotted across the trail about 30' in front of me. He never saw me. Our fishing trip got cut very short due to the port engine not running. We finally got it fixed after the captain made a 4 hour run to Anchorage for parts. How come I always end up in the bilge??:eek!::eek!: (Sorry for the hi-jack, Joe)

zelatore
08-04-2008, 10:38 AM
You're kidding me - that thing's gas???

From the pics in your other thread, I assumed it have a pair of Yanmars.