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View Full Version : You guys are just a bunch of liars!



yeller
07-11-2008, 10:46 AM
:biggrin::wavey::biggrin: Got your attention???

I have never been happy with the way my boat handles. Reading the threads here and speaking with others, I've often felt I have the worst handling 22 ever made. My boat will porpoise as soon as it gets on plane, all the way through to top end. It never stops. I have a Procharged 496HO and still don't know how fast it will go, because it is just WAAAYYY to scary at anything above low 70's. It's actually a very rare day that I can even hit 70. The previous owner ran a 28P Bravo1 and obviously he had problems with the boat because he had the tabs extended 6". :doh:

When I 1st bought the boat, the general concensus was to put a Hydromotive Q4 on it as a lot of people here have had great success with them. So for the last two seasons, I've been running a 27P Q4 and hating my boat. I've always loved the way it looked, but in all honesty, I never drove it as much as I'd like because it's just too damn much work! :nilly:

WELLLLLL......things have changed! :eek::yes::hyper:
Believe it or not a 29P M+ has COMPLETELY changed my boat for the better! The general consensus here is the M+ sucks. I know some people like them, but overall they don't seem to be well liked.
I wanted to try a 3 blade prop, because at higher speeds, along with the porpoise, I get a very nasty torque roll to port. My thinking, right or wrong, was that maybe 3 blades will cause less torque roll than 4, and maybe, just maybe, I'll be able to hit 80 for more than 1 to 2 seconds.

What I didn't expect, was a complete change in handling. The porpoise is almost completely eliminated and the boat ran like a dream with almost no tabs at all. I couldn't believe it. I cruised at 75 and could have gotten up and taken a leak if I wanted to. It was unbelievably steady. I even broke 80 and held it there for a considerable amount of time. I know I'll be able to get another 5mph out of it once I get a bit more used to the prop. The boat is a lot looser than the Q4, but it's predictable, something the Q4 never was.

So, for the 1st time ever, I had a great day RUNNING my boat.

It just goes to show you that every boat is different.



Yes.....I am a happy man today. :yes::pimp::)

MOP
07-11-2008, 11:00 AM
It has been said so many times that like boats and power will react differently to each and every prop, the best advice has always been make an event and try a bunch. It is almost as if that should be in the sites title bar so no one for gets! Glad you are finally getting the boat to do what you want!

Phil

Morgan's Cloud
07-11-2008, 11:55 AM
What a refreshingly posotive post ! :wink:
I'm in a very similar position right now and am boggled that my once demure and delightfull St tropez has been transformed into a nightmare after the 5 year resto.
I could really relate to what you said.
Interesting though that what you least expected was just the ticket !
Now you can start to have some real fun !
Steve

mrfixxall
07-11-2008, 12:17 PM
If you really want to make the boat handle even better then try a turbo!

roadtrip se
07-11-2008, 12:48 PM
Fastest prop that I have had since day one, but also one of the scariest, at times, so be careful.

Try the TXP next. No lie.

The Hedgehog
07-11-2008, 01:19 PM
The Turbo made my X-18 a completely different boat. Way better. These guys know their stuff.

I would like to try a TXP sometime but for now, I will continue to enjoy the heck out of it the way it is.

Carl C
07-11-2008, 01:21 PM
That's really good news. I know you've been disappointed in your boat. I have no handling issues with my 28p Bravo1. Now those deck blisters............

ky-donzi
07-11-2008, 04:58 PM
I've got a 350 mag mpi which I added a procharger this winter. I have the bugs worked out of the system now. I have been trying props, for me the Mirage 29 was horrible!!!

The Bravo I 28P has been the best so far. I'm going to try a 27 turbo before its all over, but, everyting cost money, between a victorian house I'm restoring, a 70 Corvette, and other various projects........ 28P bravo does good enough right now....

Mr X
07-11-2008, 05:12 PM
"You guys are just a bunch of liars!"

Myself, NOT included in that bunch.

I have sworn by that prop since day ONE!

Of course NOW trying others also, with the new 22 ILMOR. :)

BlownCrewCab
07-11-2008, 05:30 PM
Back when I raced offshore boats ("A" Class Single big block) We Tried EVERY Prop we could, Spinelli, Mach, Yada, Yada, and usually went back to the M+ It was fast and predictable and if we F'd it up we could get another just like it. I Have used a faster prop on smooth water, But said prop was not good for trying to Haul the Mail in chop OR Jumping and re-entering. Had I seen any posts where you hated your boat I would have suggested trying 3 blades. on my 18' the 3 blade 23 Pitch had 4-5mph on a 24" B1 and handled Sooo much better. it didn't like sharp turns much, but shined everywhere else.

blackhawk
07-11-2008, 05:35 PM
Yeller it's great to hear that you are dialed in better!

As far as props go, always try one when you get the chance. I have tried about a dozen on my Pantera 24. I saw no major differences in handling between the M+ series and Turbos. I even tried a M+ 27(aka widowmaker) and my boat handled fine and I was running in some pretty decent cross-chop. Run what YOU are comfortable with! ;)

BigGrizzly
07-11-2008, 06:17 PM
Yeller, boy am I glad you are having fun now. I an going to agree with the torque thing. On thing I will also say is that on some boats The hydro is not nice. As for the M+, not my favorite but if it works for you use it. I do think there is something better but I am also going to say Learn that prop first then try something else. That way you can make a good determination. BTW my boat doesn't like the hydro either. The only 4 blade it likes is the Fusion.

The Hedgehog
07-11-2008, 06:57 PM
Different boats like different props. Some boats actually like the M+ 27. What works on a 24 Pantera will work differently on a Classic 22. What works on a classic 22 will be different on a 18.

The same thing can be said for labbed props. It also varies by power package and torque. Ky Donzi can tell you about that.

It also varies with driving techniques. I say try them all. I have both a Turbo and a M+ for my 18. The M+ is now my spare.

Yeller, I am glad your boat is handling well. That is what is important. It was good to talk to you the other day. I apologize if I was short in the end. I had do deal with a safety check. Surprisingly I passed!:hangum:

yeller
07-11-2008, 07:35 PM
Now I can't wait to get back out and make sure that the boat running better wasn't a fluke and just a result of the conditions. It was nasty when I took it out, but the boat handled great. Interestingly enough, on my way back in the water calmed down considerably and it didn't handle as good as when in the rough. That's 180 degree turn from with the Q4. The Q4 gets suggested on this site because it has solved the porpoising for a lot of guys. It's odd that for my boat, it was the cause of most of the porpoising.

BigGriz....I am going to take some time and learn/enjoy the prop.......then I'll give you a call.

zelatore
07-12-2008, 01:16 AM
Crap! That means I'm the slow guy again!

Good deal though - you boat looked far to good not to run faster than mine!



I wonder what a little boost would do for my 502.... :wink:

blueliner
07-12-2008, 01:31 AM
Now I can't wait to get back out and make sure that the boat running better wasn't a fluke and just a result of the conditions. It was nasty when I took it out, but the boat handled great. Interestingly enough, on my way back in the water calmed down considerably and it didn't handle as good as when in the rough. That's 180 degree turn from with the Q4. The Q4 gets suggested on this site because it has solved the porpoising for a lot of guys. It's odd that for my boat, it was the cause of most of the porpoising.
BigGriz....I am going to take some time and learn/enjoy the prop.......then I'll give you a call.

yo yeller...

been working. i'll be out sat and sunday this weekend... you??? let me know. would love to hook up.

BigGrizzly
07-12-2008, 10:21 AM
Yeller, take notes and if possible try both props the same day and conditions. I am interested on the differences that YOU feel. If possible what on lookers see and passengers feels. Then call me and we will take it farther. For your info. the Q4 lifts the stern on most boats. The M+ lifts the bow. When the stern is lifted more trim is needed to keep from bow steering, and is like riding on marbles, the bravoI does this on some boats. There is also a torque steer issue of the boat listing when throttle is increased or decreased Criterion run flat Hence they don't like Q4. On the other side with too much bow lift the boat rides on its tail and starts the chine walk sensation. It sounds like your boat wants to run flat ( a good thing) and the props won't let it. I think I can fix that problem. I can remember propping Tomahawk, it almost liked everything except the vented Lightning, then the TurboI became the prop of choice. The TXP was in the prototype stage and I had the only one they finally hit the market and Tom had sold it. Remember the most important factor here is what YOU feel, not what is said. All boats have a slight different handling, even the same design.
In several threads the bigger M+ had been called the widow maker and I have stated it isn't all that bad. I just do not prefer it on my boat. Unfortunately, you can't try a Turbo one in the correct size because only a few were made and mine found a permanent home on a good friends boat. However I have a better option.
As for 4, vs 5 vs 3 blade props- Like everything else, more is not always better. Never use a Semi when everything you are taking will fit in a van! Too many blades are slower and add to some issues, but enhance others. Go have and have fun and get back to us.

yeller
07-12-2008, 01:25 PM
yo yeller...
been working. i'll be out sat and sunday this weekend... you??? let me know. would love to hook up.Probably not on Sat, but definately want to go out on Sun.

Would you be into a bit of prop testing? Your lift would come in handy for that. It'd be interesting to see how the Q4 does on your boat. I also have a 28 Bravo1 if you want to try it out.

BigGrizzly....yes the Q4 definately lifts the stearn. Boat likes a lot of trim with it, but could rarely get away doing that. To me, the M+ seems to lift the entire boat. Definately lifts the bow more. I noticed the bow lift even at idle speeds when I had the drive fairly high. The M+ did introduce some mild chinewalking, but it wasn't any big deal really. Powered through it fairly easily.
The one downside to the M+ is it blows out real easily when getting on plane. I have to take at least twice as long to get up

joseph m. hahnl
07-12-2008, 03:19 PM
The one downside to the M+ is it blows out real easily when getting on plane. I have to take at least twice as long to get up


You Know? :confused:To me it sound as if your trim limit switch is set improperly.:shocking:
Is the drive tucking in all the way?:propeller:
Glad to see you getting some where with the porpoising:happy_bi:

RickSE
07-12-2008, 06:17 PM
I've tried (2) Hydro's and (1) Bravo but keep putting the M+ back on my boat. I like my M+ in smooth water and really like it in rough water. The 4-blade props just can't carry the bow of my boat as well as the M+ in rough water and the boat feels too glued to the water w/4-blades. The M+ is like stepping on an elevator. My boat will porpoise and has significant torque lean with the M+ but none of the 4-blades took this away.

Yeller, glad to hear you're having success. I was surprised to hear that you were running tabs on our Saturday evening Powell run. At the speeds we were running my tabs we're close to neutral or above.

Carl C
07-13-2008, 06:34 AM
Deck blisters are usually caused by the formaldehyde outgassing from the carpet and foam in the forward cabin


Anonymous :D :) Myth....Busted

RedDog
07-13-2008, 10:28 AM
You Know? :confused:To me it sound as if your trim limit switch is set improperly.:shocking:
Is the drive tucking in all the way?:propeller:
Glad to see you getting some where with the porpoising:happy_bi:
There is a spacer on the trim ram pin where it passes thru the drive. When on one side of the pin, the drive tilts out higher but does not lower/tuck in as far. If on the other side of the pin - vise-versa. Check it. A quick change if that is the case
I don't see it in the diagram, but it rides on either the front or rear side of item 20 - http://www.dougrussell.com/partscatalog/components/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewparts&colid=04&coldesc=BRAVO%20ONE%20(ALL%20RATIOS)&index=5398&block=180&BlockNumberList=90,50,10,100,120,150,140,170,160,7 0,40,230,80,210,200,240,0,250,220,190,260,280,300, 290,270,30,20,60,180,110,130

yeller
07-14-2008, 01:12 AM
You Know? :confused:To me it sound as if your trim limit switch is set improperly.:shocking:
Is the drive tucking in all the way?:propeller:
Everything works as it should.

BigGrizzly
07-14-2008, 09:09 AM
Red Dog, Believe me Yeller has checked everything except,until now, the props. he is not new to this boat. He has others drive his boat to make sure it wasn't him. My hats off to him he didn't give up he just kept plugging along! Good job Yeller!

blackhawk
07-14-2008, 09:19 AM
Yeller, Mirage + props blow out much easier on my boat as well and a standard Mirage is horrible, but fast! :D I have to take it easy with any 3-blade prop when planing. A Rev4 or Bravo and it pops right up.

Also, I think what you're describing about the boat handling better in chop is normal. My deep V boats have all handled better in the chop. I think it's because it takes less trim to air the boat out, but that's just my own little theory! :D

Good job with sticking with it!!!