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blackhawk
07-10-2008, 09:36 PM
A friend of mine has a 1992 cone clutch King Cobra that is "popping" out of gear once in awhile. We checked the obvious shift cable/linkage and all is good. It seems to be mainly when he is getting on plane and there is more load on the drive.

Once it "pops" out if he takes the shifter to nuetral then back into gear it will go back into gear. No grinding or any other noises at all.

Dr. Dan
07-10-2008, 11:31 PM
:smash:Hawk - I get my King Parts from Brad @ http://www.fasteddiesmarineparts.com/Order.htm

this has their numbers... obviously he'll have to determine if its the Cone Clutch or a Shaft - mine didn't grind and over the last 4 years it would mimic a spun hub on a prop every now an then... that was the Bad Forward Teeth in the Cone Clutch...

But it could be other things as well.... have someone take a look and then make the call.

I pick mine up this Saturday... New Cone Clutch among a few other "undisclosed things" - just to piss Rooster Evil Twin Boy - Red Flower Pot - Brisket Boy wondering...

:crossfing:Hope it runs out ok this Sunday...

Doc of King Cobra Augmentation :doh:

blackhawk
07-11-2008, 06:09 PM
:smash:Hawk - I get my King Parts from Brad @ http://www.fasteddiesmarineparts.com/Order.htm
this has their numbers... obviously he'll have to determine if its the Cone Clutch or a Shaft - mine didn't grind and over the last 4 years it would mimic a spun hub on a prop every now an then... that was the Bad Forward Teeth in the Cone Clutch...
But it could be other things as well.... have someone take a look and then make the call.
I pick mine up this Saturday... New Cone Clutch among a few other "undisclosed things" - just to piss Rooster Evil Twin Boy - Red Flower Pot - Brisket Boy wondering...
:crossfing:Hope it runs out ok this Sunday...
Doc of King Cobra Augmentation :doh:

Thanks, I was thinking it could be the cone clutch but I have NO IDEA how the cone clutch works. If I remember right it slides up and down on a spiral gear and causes the gears to "mesh" into forward or reverse?

I'm betting his is the same problem as yours. The first time it did it I told him he spun a hub.

gcarter
07-11-2008, 06:25 PM
You'd be more familiar w/a cone clutch if you were talking about a syncronizer in an automobile manual transmission.
The idea is to syncronize two parts running at different speeds.
The "cone" comes into contact w/a similarly shaped part (male and female) and allows a little slippage until the "dogs" are engaged.
I would guess your friends clutch isn't engaging all the way, so it slips. If it does slip continually, just like in a manual transmission, the clutch will wear out and you get an expensive "crunch" when engaging.
I'd get it looked at. It could be an adjustment if it's not engaging all the way.

BigGrizzly
07-12-2008, 10:59 AM
This problem is common to cone clutches since there introduction. They get shiny and start not to grab. On my old AQ drive I just take the drive apart and lap the cones together with compound and clean very well install and it usually works fine. So far it has never failed. I had a friend who just flipped the cones around in a AQ drive and both gears started working again. The cones work on a twisted shaft and are pushed together when placed in gear and lock like synchronizers in a car transmission. I fixed one on a boat ramp once, not my best idea, but we got it done:hangum:

MOP
07-12-2008, 11:52 AM
I second the cone, Randy mentioned lapping cones in this should be done even with a new cone it must have full contact within the cups, new or used you must compensate for the wear that has occurred to the cups. The cones have a top clearly marked, was told years back but have forgotten why. I have turned the cones over and yes they fit and lap in perfectly. Flipping and re lapping may be an out for your buddy as the cone is pretty pricey, and the reverse side usually is like new. It requires full disassembly of the upped and yes some very special tools that both Volvo and OMC shops will have. To make that and all drives last it require careful shimming and tooth pattern examining, doing it correctly takes time and patience. Once done the rolling torques figures must fall within the recommended tolerance, with high horse power apps it was recommended at tech school they should be tight meaning at the very upper end of the scale when done. I questioned that, thinking as the drive got hot things would get tight. I was dead WRONG according to the school due to the slight expansion of the aluminum case things get looser.

Phil

blackhawk
07-12-2008, 01:39 PM
Thanks guys I will let him know. He has a service book for the drive but unfortunately no tools. We do have a local service shop that has OMC tools but I am not sure how much I trust them!

Dr. Dan
07-13-2008, 06:19 AM
:smash:I brought the Donzi back home after pretty much a month away since the breakdown in Lake George on the Saturday Run.

BlackHawk you and Carter describe the Operation exactly correct. And as Phil and others have stated the Threads on the Out "Cone" do wear.... and after reading about them flipping them I can see how that would work on a temporary basis...but its not a long term solution.

I disagree on the Price... it was less than $300 for the part and that included a rush next day UPS to my casa. So I think its all relative...but compared to a Full Drive Replacement or an Upper as Russel wanted to sell me - they would not part out the Dirve Components! I was like WTF - but with Fast Eddies it was like ordering a set of Champion Plugs... no big deal!

And here is a surprising little fact that Mercury might not wanna hear...but Bombardier still makes the Cone Clutch for the King Cobra.... in fact he had to order it direct with them... so for what its worth...that made me feel pretty good.

I would suggest that a qualified Mechanic do the Job with a good OMC Manual, Holden said its not like a Merc, it is just a different concept as to how the whole thing goes together.

You will need the following parts: Cone Clutch (# 915130)
FastEddies Marine Parts 800-531-4486 Upper Seal Kit ( # 987744)

Assuming its the King Cobra - and that in fact the Cone Clutch is the culprit.

Good Luck

Doc of Soon to Water Test Kings :angel:

BigGrizzly
07-13-2008, 08:52 AM
The good part is it is fixed and not that expensive. Some guys just want to sell stuff like all or nothing. At this point my old Cr750 race bike parts are like that too, I will sell it all or nothing because Some stuff is great and the rest is just hardware. As for longevity If it is done correctly it can last forever, Our 16 is on to 30 years and 300 hours since I have done her and the Corsican is 12 years and 400 hours on it. Granted it is a Volvo AQ drive but the principle is the same. Yes I do have what is needed to do the drive and know about shimming it and it is not for the unskilled. BTW Doc, NEW parts are that new and I believe you made the correct decision!

BigGrizzly
07-13-2008, 09:36 AM
The bike isn't for sale just all the spare parts, Marc wants the bike, a family heirloom thing.

blackhawk
08-21-2011, 08:02 PM
Well after replacing the shift cable to the drive and changing drive lube from omc stuff to merc hi-perf drive lube he had two trouble free seasons.

But 3 weeks ago it came back. Replaced the cable from shifter to bracket and still did it. He was over due for a lube change so I told him chances were slim but it was worth a shot to change the lube, and he needed to anyway. No one carries Merc lube in town and he was talked into Mobil One Synthetic. Changed lube and problem went from bad to much, much worse.

So, we pulled the u-joint assy so we could see the clutch and gears. When shifting into reverse and turning the prop the clutch would grab right away. Shift into forward and you could spin the prop 2-3 full revolutions before it would grab. The shifting fork was fully seating the clutch into the gears in both forward and reverse.

We pulled the gearset but that was as far as we could get without special tools. We need a holding fixture to hold the shaft in a vice while we remove the nut from the shaft, which we should have tomorrow. If the clutch looks like it is only glazed we are considering lapping it into the gears. Also considering flipping it as the reverse side should be like new as MOP stated. My question is why is the cone clutched marked "up" on one side? I've talked to some Bravo guys running serious hp and they state they flip the clutch every time they're in the drive just to promote even wear.

Also, whats everyone's opinion on the problem getting much worse after the lube change? Could be coincidence but it would be a big one! And I've heard the Merc puts an additive in their lube to promote better/smoother shifting, but not sure if that is true.

MOP
08-21-2011, 08:09 PM
Buy a new cone!!!!!!!!! Make sure who ever installs it it must be lapped in, when the pattern shows full contact then wash every thing out to rid it of grit. He will be good to go for many years if dome properly!

Phil

blackhawk
08-23-2011, 12:05 AM
Got the holding fixture and got the clutch out. Drive side was definitely glazed inside the cup and the "ridges" on the clutch weren't nearly as sharp when compared to the reverse side.

Phil, you(and others) have mentioned lapping even a brand new clutch. My question is, since the clutch has ridges it seems like the cup will only get deglazed where the ridges contact the cone??? Maybe hit the cup with sandpaper before lapping?

MOP
08-23-2011, 08:03 AM
Got the holding fixture and got the clutch out. Drive side was definitely glazed inside the cup and the "ridges" on the clutch weren't nearly as sharp when compared to the reverse side.

Phil, you(and others) have mentioned lapping even a brand new clutch. My question is, since the clutch has ridges it seems like the cup will only get deglazed where the ridges contact the cone??? Maybe hit the cup with sandpaper before lapping?

Me I would lap it in, I was a Volvo tech when I changed a cone it always was lapped in. It does not take that long and insures full contact, if it spins it will glaze again.

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