Rootsy....

[Donziweasel]

Can you tell me the process for powder coating at home in an oven? I have a new engine coming for the 16 and might want to powder coat some of the smaller items and can't afford a professional powder coater. I don't like the color of the intake and some of the other components. Plus, I will be using the altenator, power steering pump, etc... off the old Mercruiser and the colors don't mesh with the new engine.

[smbarcelow]

I think step 1 is: Send your wife away for the weekend before you go baking engine parts in her oven. :wink:

[Rootsy]

Step #1 get an oven for the garage... Electric. Bigger the better... with decent temperature control in the 350 - 450 F range.

Step #2 go to Caswell Plating dot com or Eastwood Co dot Com or ebay and buy yourself a powdercoating kit. I have the Caswell machine, a generation or two back, it is OK but I believe they have a better one now... It is by no means the super High potential professional machines but works fine.

Step #3 get yourself the powders you want.

Step #4 Like painting make sure that your compressed air is clean and dry at the gun.

Step #5 have a way to clean the parts (sandblasting, washing, degreasing) you are coating and in some cases pre-heating is necessary. Handle with nitrile non powdered gloves after cleaning.

From there it is all setup, procedure and execution...

[Donziweasel]

Thanks Jamie, got about everything but the coating, oven, blasting cabinet, etc....

[gcarter]

LOL...
Sounds like it might be cheaper to have it done.......:wink:

There's a guy down the street from me here in Leesburg that'll bead blast and coat for about $30.00/bracket.:smash:
Has 30' long ovens too. He can do ANYTHING!

I admit that's a pretty reasonable deal but ya see what I mean.

[hardcrab]

The oven needs to be clean also so that burning grease or residue doesn't contaminate the powder finish - VENTILATE the area well, the fumes will kill ya.
Don't use the oven for food after you've baked parts in it.

The trick is in preparation, once the powder has been applied it can be brushed off easily.
Practice how you'll be handling the item and placing / hanging it in the oven first so you don't upset the powder. The part should be cleaned / treated as if you were painting it.
Once the powder has baked and flowed out (usually about 20 min.) to a consistant gloss, it's done. Remove and let cool. Extra oven time can discolor the surface.

If you have any flaws, you can re-powder after it's cool and bake again.

Eastwood.com has high temp tape and plugs/caps to make prep work easier

[Donziweasel]

George, I would probably have it done professionally, but the closest place is Salt lake City, 300 miles away. For smaller parts want to try it myself. Kinda liek you and the gel coat, want to learn to do it as well as taking pride in work I have done myself. If it was bigger parts that really stick out, would probably have someone else do it.

HC, thanks for the advice. Will probably start small, like a alt bracket for practice. As for the blasting, are you blasting to clean and remove all old paint, or to make the surface slightly rough for adhesion, or both? Like I said, have a professional blasting cabnet.

I remember Jamie posting some pics of his work and the pieces really looked nice!

[MOP]

Rootsy seems to have it down pat!! Why not box the stuff up and have Rootsy do it for you, the turn around should be reasonable and the Root man could use the jingle!

[Rootsy]

Actually, after most powders have flowed out they have a set "curing" time at a specific temperature, depending upon what kind of powder it is or what additives it has in it...

Preparation, just like painting is key... sandblasted, sanded, cleaned, cleaned again, degreased, blown dry and clean, handled with gloved hands... moved carefully from application area to oven... clean oven, especially for light colored parts. I wrap my burner coils in aluminum foil to keep carbon, etc from flaking off and falling onto my parts...

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/jaroot13/1966_18_Donzi/1966C18105647.jpg

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/jaroot13/1966_18_Donzi/1966C18105642.jpg

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/jaroot13/1966_18_Donzi/1966C18105662.jpg

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/jaroot13/1966_18_Donzi/1966C18105659.jpg

[gcarter]

Those look nice Jamie.:eek!:

[vonkamp]

Here's my powdercoating thread..

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=49210

[Donziweasel]

Amazing Jamie! Love the blue manifold!

[Donziweasel]

Amazing Jamie! Love the blue manifold! Wrapping the coils in foil doesn't harm the oven? How much does it cost in powder for one piece? How long in the oven for a piece like the manifold?

[hardcrab]

DW; like Rootsy said, treat the part as if you were going to paint it. It's not necessary to abrade the surface, just decontaminate it. Eastwood has a great solvent called "PRE painting prep" that'll work great as a final wash. Wear the nitrile gloves (as per Root) because your skin oils are also a contaminate.You'll find it's not as difficult as it may sound, it's all preparation - practice how you'll handle the part to place it into the oven before applying the powder. This is the vunerable stage.
NOTE; make sure to remove ANY component off the part that can't withstand 400 degree temps!

I had a brand new alum. intake right out the box, used clear powder only and it came out perfect without any prep but an air hose and PRE (since it was virgin out of the box clean)
The great part of the powdercoat finish is it's durability, abrasion and chemical resistance. Gas, brake fluid, ect. will wipe right off.

[hardcrab]

These guys have everything you need. Get their catalog.

www.eastwood.com
1-800-345-1178

Eastwood
263 Shoemaker Rd.
Pottstown, PA. 19464

[Donziweasel]

No problem on the prep, I have shot a lot of paint and know that while shooting is the fun part, the prep is what really makes the difference in a nice paint job vs. a sloppy one that won't last. Cleanliness, especailly oils, is the key. Back in the 90's, did a lot of body work on my busses due to not being able to afford the body shop in the early days.

Surfed some sites and found some basic kits from 400.00 to 800.00. Powder is pretty cheap, starting at 8.00. Considering the Bronco project (the Ford Racing 351 could definetly benfit from some powder) as well as the engine for the 16, I am not really interested in trying it. Would love to powder coat some components on the Bronco.

Thanks Jamie and Hardcrab for the info, links and advice. Jamie, when (if not already) you get the engine together, I would like to see some pics. I am sure it is going to look great. HC, got any pics of the manifold you did?

[hardcrab]

HC, got any pics of the manifold you did?

DW; I have YET to to get a picture to post - can somebody please walk me thru the steps? (sorry)


No oven...


Anonymous :D :D
Poodle, and yes they DO have ovens up to walk-in sizes;
also make freestanding curing lamps for WAY BIG stuff.

[Donziweasel]

Hardcarb, two ways to post a pic. First, if the pic is on your computer, click the paper click above next to the smiley face. A new window will come up with a place for 5 pics and a browse button next to each one. Click the browse button and locate the pic on your computer. Click load and that is all. Load time is usually 30 sec to a couple of minutes depending on size.

Second way is to load one from another website. That is how Jamie posted his powder coated pieces pics. They show up in the thread as opposed to a attachment. You find a site or a phot webiste like www.photobucket.com and load you pics on to it (it is free). The you cut the URL of the pic on the website and then you click the little pic thing above next to the letter icon and paste it in there. That is it. I know it sounds a little confusing, but the paper clip one is easier.

[Donziweasel]

MP, you get my pm?

Come on, you never saw the paper clip? You are supermaderator extradonaire.:smash:

[hardcrab]

Thanks, this ol' dog will be learnin' new tricks - I just haven't played with pics at all before.

By the way, note that there is hi-temp body putty available also to schmoose out imperfections / fix chips , dents ect. prior to coating.

[Rootsy]

Have to watch out putting powder on some smooth parts. Especially if you have to bolt them down. The powder has nothing to grab to on the substrate and will crack and flake beneath the bolt head, with or without a washer. Had to redo my intake because of this... twice...

most powders require anywhere from 15 to 30 minutes of cure time at roughly 400F after flow out. Again depends on the polymer the powder is made of.

Engine has been assembled for a while now... You could have bought it instead of the crate you did DW... :wink:

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/jaroot13/1966_18_Donzi/1966C18105737.jpg

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/jaroot13/1966_18_Donzi/1966C18105736.jpg

[Donziweasel]

How many Hp and what would you have charged me? BTW, the engine looks amazing. Did you powder coat the pulleys or did they come that way. Also, if you sold me the engine, what would you have replaced it with in the red mistress? Bildge looks really nice also.:wink: I know I got a good deal on the Blueprint engine though.

[Rootsy]

How many Hp and what would you have charged me? BTW, the engine looks amazing. Did you powder coat the pulleys or did they come that way. Also, if you sold me the engine, what would you have replaced it with in the red mistress? Bildge looks really nice also.:wink: I know I got a good deal on the Blueprint engine though.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=49760

[MOP]

Don keep your eye out for "Curb Kill" on junk day the biggest item may be free!!!!

[Donziweasel]

Jamie, nice build! You obvioulsy did not skimp on any of the components. Just out of curiosity, why did you go with the 2 bolt main instead of 4? I am sure the 2 will hold the crank, but 426 hp is a lot. On the other hand, the engine seems well balanced.
I would have loved to buy the mouse, but, I got the 355 for 2800.00 + 370.00shipping and it was dressed. That included a full one year warranty from the time you first fire it up. The engine is basically new and has never been started. Doesn't look near as good as yours and is about 35 horse shy of the mouse.
I just don't have time right now to build an engine. Winter I do, but summer is just too busy. Also, probably could not have built one for the price of the one I got. Kinda a one time deal and a firesale.
I can't believe no one jumped on your mouse though. Would make a real nice addition to a 16, 18, or for that matter, a 22.

[The Hedgehog]

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=49760

Nice.

That would make someone's 16 or 18 a screamer.

[Rootsy]

Used a 2 bolt because it is plenty strong when studded for what I am doing and I had it sitting there...

I consider it a hand built blueprinted engine with verifiable records to back that up. At what I am looking for it I won't even get my labor back in full... I have about 65 hours into the assembly. That includes measuring all components, hand fitting parts, assembly and disassembly 3 times to measure and verify clearances as well as equalize stack-up's in each bore, final assembly, paint, powdercoating, etc etc...

With the availability of crate engines for reasonable prices the demand for hand built blueprinted custom engines shrinks a bit more every day.

Now anyone need an engine for a Farmall M, Super M, Super MTA, 400 or 450??? I'm at the point where I can make it as big as you want... if you want to go pulling ;)

[Donziweasel]

I agree, and I must admit, I am guilty of purchasing crate engines. I was going to bore and stroke the 302 to a 347 in my Bronco, but the block was in juts too bad a shape.

One problem with crates is a lot of inconsistent quality. Due to replacing engines in busses for years, I know a few really reputable companies I will only deal with. Others build using inferior components, dirty shops, don't check tolerances and I have even heard of used parts going into "new" crates. I think GM Performance and Ford Racing make good crates as well as Blueprint. When looking at crates, I think the warranty tells you alot. 3 months or less (which many crates have) is BS. At least a year for consideration.

I remember reading your threads about the mouse build. Measuring each piston to the gram for wieght and adding or subtracting where necessary. I was very impressed by the time and effort you took to make the mouse perfect. There must be a lot of pride for you Jamie with the finished product.

[The Hedgehog]

Used a 2 bolt because it is plenty strong when studded for what I am doing and I had it sitting there...

I consider it a hand built blueprinted engine with verifiable records to back that up. At what I am looking for it I won't even get my labor back in full... I have about 65 hours into the assembly. That includes measuring all components, hand fitting parts, assembly and disassembly 3 times to measure and verify clearances as well as equalize stack-up's in each bore, final assembly, paint, powdercoating, etc etc...

With the availability of crate engines for reasonable prices the demand for hand built blueprinted custom engines shrinks a bit more every day.

Now anyone need an engine for a Farmall M, Super M, Super MTA, 400 or 450??? I'm at the point where I can make it as big as you want... if you want to go pulling ;)

I just went through the custom engine build process and am blown away with the detail that goes into those. I have a new appreciation for the process.

That is a smoking deal on that engine.

[BigGrizzly]

DW when you meet him you will understand. That is just the way he is. He is the kind of guy when you loan him your truck it comes back washed and waxed. He NEVER does things 1/2 a$$.

[Donziweasel]

I wish more people were like that. I admit, although I try and be as detailed as possible when dealing with mechanics, I am probably not as detailed as Jamie. I always try and be clean (number 1 priority), check tolerances and use parts that I believe will be more than adequate for the job. I think in many ways, my work speaks for itself. I have had many compliments on the Bronco chassis I built and other work. That being said, I always know there is probably more detail I could have done. I am not saying I cut corners, just might not go as far as you can abosolutly go. Talking with Jamie, reading his threads, etc... I can say he is a rare breed that is not satisfied until it is perfect down to the micron. Anyone would be proud to own his mouse.

Me, if I borrowed your truck, I would fill it with gas, wash it, clean the interior, but probably not wax it.:p:convertib:

[Donziweasel]

I here them diesel things run great on gasoline. Over the years, a few of my drivers have even tried it! Some of them are midly retarded as well.:smash:


Seriously, whenever a vehicle is not running well for no apparent reason, first thing I check is fuel reciepts to see what the hell they put in it. Had gas in deisel, deisel in gas. One driver put deisel in a gas van 3 times one winter. Everyone started calling him "diesel".

Did I spell "diesel" right? Last time I mispelled it, Buiz called me out.

[gcarter]

Did I spell "diesel" right? Last time I mispelled it, Buiz called me out.
Should you capitalize the "D"? After all, it is a persons name!!:eek!:

BTW, what happens to a Diesel engine w/gas in it?
I know gas is a lousy lubricant and would probably affect the injector pump.

[Donziweasel]

Well, luckily, most of my fuel tanks are huge on the busses so it is usually a low percentage of deisel in gas or vice versa. Gas in diesel is really bad, it will burn up a diesel engine quick if not caught. Diesel in gas is not bad for the engine, but is kills the power, pumps black smoke, fouls plugs and backfires some. The biggest pain is draining the fuel tanks to get the bad mix out.

[joseph m. hahnl]

Just for FYI: Powder coating is actually paint with out solvent. The quest for environmentally safe solvents and paint .When you paint with solvent based paints as it dries the solvent escapes into the atmosphere creating pollution. The Powder coat is basically melted paint.That is why the prep is just as important as if you were using regular paint:doh:.

[Rootsy]

Just for FYI: Powder coating is actually paint with out solvent. The quest for environmentally safe solvents and paint .When you paint with solvent based paints as it dries the solvent escapes into the atmosphere creating pollution. The Powder coat is basically melted paint.That is why the prep is just as important as if you were using regular paint:doh:.

Actually the "powder" in powdercoating is either a thermoplastic or thermoset resin which has been pigmented. The heat melts it and it flows out. Thermoplastics may be remelted, thermosets have cross linked chains and will not remelt but will degrade if subjected to great enough temperatures...

conventional paints may have plastisizers added (ie hardeners added to non catalyzed single stages) or have a catalyzed reaction causing polymer chains to form and "harden" the paint.

they really are not the same things.

[mike o]

the only flaw on my 95 16, is the black paint is almost gone off the back side of my steering wheel, showing mostly very oxidized aluminum. whats the best way to coat this... that will last?

[joseph m. hahnl]

Actually the "powder" in powder coating is either a thermoplastic or thermo set resin which has been pigmented. The heat melts it and it flows out. Thermoplastics may be remelted, thermo sets have cross linked chains and will not remelt but will degrade if subjected to great enough temperatures...

conventional paints may have plasticizes added (ie hardeners added to non catalyzed single stages) or have a catalyzed reaction causing polymer chains to form and "harden" the paint.

they really are not the same things.

Powder coating is a type of dry coating, which is applied as a free-flowing, dry powder. The main difference between a conventional liquid paint and a powder coating is that the powder coating does not require a solvent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solvent) to keep the binder and filler parts in a liquid suspension form.



Apples and oranges are not the same yet they are still fruit.

http://www.patentgenius.com/patent/6337108.html