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BigGrizzly
07-02-2008, 11:58 AM
This is for information only. While I was at Lake George there was an argument back at the shop. It started with under drive pulleys and up with individual components. Well I com back and go down to visit and tell of my woes. I see the front steering and suspension of a cammaro on the floor so I asked why. Apparently someone claimed that an under drive pulley set was worth 40 HP. Someone must have too much time on their hands. After work that night the front suspension appeared and the fun began. a case of beer and two supreme pizzas later a fully dressed 350( not stock) Chevy and a front suspension are on the dyno The results were that until the power steering has gone to the lock it only draws 0.6 hp and a 140 amp alternator draw even less. BTW there was not a AC compressor in this test. Need less to say when the under drive pulleys were installed it wasn't even close to the claimed gain. What did show up was the low break even output of the alternator. I was really surprised and am not changing my pulleys. Of course you can't see the pulleys on my boat anyway. Enjoy this information.

smbarcelow
07-02-2008, 12:26 PM
I've always questioned the premise of under-driving the alternator and water pump. It's almost like the engineers knew what they were doing when sizing the stock pulleys.

cutwater
07-02-2008, 12:33 PM
Grizz -

What would you estimate is the HP drain from running with & without a circulation pump? That's something I'd like to see on the dyno.

Conquistador_del_mar
07-02-2008, 12:47 PM
This is for information only. While I was at Lake George there was an argument back at the shop. It started with under drive pulleys and up with individual components. Well I com back and go down to visit and tell of my woes. I see the front steering and suspension of a cammaro on the floor so I asked why. Apparently someone claimed that an under drive pulley set was worth 40 HP. Someone must have too much time on their hands. After work that night the front suspension appeared and the fun began. a case of beer and two supreme pizzas later a fully dressed 350( not stock) Chevy and a front suspension are on the dyno The results were that until the power steering has gone to the lock it only draws 0.6 hp and a 140 amp alternator draw even less. BTW there was not a AC compressor in this test. Need less to say when the under drive pulleys were installed it wasn't even close to the claimed gain. What did show up was the low break even output of the alternator. I was really surprised and am not changing my pulleys. Of course you can't see the pulleys on my boat anyway. Enjoy this information.

I can't say I am surprised at the low HP use of the PS pump or alternator, but I would have probably guessed in the 2-3HP range.
I would presume the HP use of an AC compressor is considerable, but it probably greatly depends on the particular compressor design. I recently took an 1100 mile trip in one of my cars that got 25.2MPG out there in January without running the AC compared to 22.6 on the return trip last month running the AC all the way back. I don't believe wind was a factor so the loss of MPG was soley due to the AC HP consumption although the colder air in January would also contribute to the better mileage along with the slightly harder tires. What HP does the average automotive AC compressor supposedly use? Bill

VetteLT193
07-02-2008, 12:55 PM
Cool test, but it is a bit flawed in that you are almost always steering and that steering is under load. Even straight down the road in a car you are moving the wheel back and forth to keep going straight... that's going to consume closer to what the test was at the lock.

On a boat with standard power steering there is always load on it when moving. My best educated guess is 3-5HP is used on boat power steering.

The boat water pump is probably good for another 3-5HP.

With all that said there is more gained from loss of weight. Getting a couple of HP from under drive pulleys isn't worth it on a boat. In a car it helps more on the highway for gas mileage and makes the engine a little snappier with the A/C on. Still barely worth it.

And, if you pull the power steering from a Donzi you won't be able to use the extra power you gain because your arms are probably not strong enough to hold the wheel at full throttle:smash:

smbarcelow
07-02-2008, 01:01 PM
And, if you pull the power steering from a Donzi you won't be able to use the extra power you gain because your arms are probably not strong enough to hold the wheel at full throttle:smash:

I'm pretty sure my 59 MPH run the other night was a gentle arc to the right, not having the benefit of power steering.

BigGrizzly
07-02-2008, 02:14 PM
Actually the test was not flawed it was your assumption that the steering wasn't moved. at full lock with the wheel chattering the maximum load was 19.6 hp. The boat is not under as much a load especially since your really under less of a load then a auto. in a full hydraulic steering boat there a similar load as a car. The Merc steering works off a sliding ball and takes very little power. as a matter of fact I have run a pressure gage off mine and found that until locked the pump is just cruising. The guys that did this test are not dummies. They have professional factory sponsored racers retired. Considering corrections factors and all. If you think a boat steering is always loaded you are wrong. even in cable steering on my Corsican I could cruise at 40 and take my hands off the wheel. When I put the hydraulic steering on it there there was no pull what so ever, not so with the cable.On hydraulic steering when the belt broke last year it was no biggie just a little harder and no pulls at all. It almost made me ask my self "why power steering"? If vett thinks that the test was flawed he3 is welcome to do his own. At this point it is the best available. as for the air conditioning thing, when I worked at Honda we found that the 88 Acura at 60mph cruise with ambient temperature of 85 degrees, don't remember the humidity, the horse power draw was approximately 7hp. which did decrease the mpg by about 1.2 mpg. So Bill it sounds like your right on the money with you comparison. Like you I expected more but you were closer I figured 3 to 5. So your smarter then me or just a better guesser:wink: As for the circ pump we did that on my 502 with the full flow closed system. the draw was less than 1 hp. Remember there was no fan attached to the pump, just the pulley. What we did find was at high rpms the circ pump cavitates and there is even less of a draw. What I don't know what the raw water pump draws at idle. at speed it is aided by the water pressure and uses less power. The whole point is the ps and alt. draw very little and would cause less of a speed loss than a bad prop blade. Now guys have at it that is all the info I have. BTW the customer took the under drive pulleys back to whom ever. I was thinking on an acceleration test there would possibly be more of a difference.
On the companies and pulley size statement. Yes a lot of engineering goes into that, at least at Honda. There are some cars that have the same alternator but a different pulley.

DonziJon
07-02-2008, 02:38 PM
Since we're talking about power losses due to various accessorys, I wonder if anyone can speculate (or calculate) the power loss through an Out Drive?.

Then there's all that weight in the outdrive. So I wonder why the outdrive has pretty much superseded the "Straight Inboard" for boats under about 26 feet or so? John

MOP
07-02-2008, 02:49 PM
Can not verify my numbers, I think I read that static there was nearly no loss but in use was 4-5Hp. Alternators like you also produce little drag, generators I "think" were a different story. When I was drag racing most of the guys me included had a dash switch to break the field circuit, after a run when the fields were switched back in you could hear the engine drop a couple of revs at idle.

Phil

VetteLT193
07-02-2008, 03:19 PM
Actually the test was not flawed it was your assumption that the steering wasn't moved. at full lock with the wheel chattering the maximum load was 19.6 hp. The boat is not under as much a load especially since your really under less of a load then a auto. in a full hydraulic steering boat there a similar load as a car. The Merc steering works off a sliding ball and takes very little power. as a matter of fact I have run a pressure gage off mine and found that until locked the pump is just cruising. The guys that did this test are not dummies. They have professional factory sponsored racers retired. Considering corrections factors and all. If you think a boat steering is always loaded you are wrong. even in cable steering on my Corsican I could cruise at 40 and take my hands off the wheel. When I put the hydraulic steering on it there there was no pull what so ever, not so with the cable.On hydraulic steering when the belt broke last year it was no biggie just a little harder and no pulls at all. It almost made me ask my self "why power steering"? If vett thinks that the test was flawed he3 is welcome to do his own. At this point it is the best available. as for the air conditioning thing, when I worked at Honda we found that the 88 Acura at 60mph cruise with ambient temperature of 85 degrees, don't remember the humidity, the horse power draw was approximately 7hp. which did decrease the mpg by about 1.2 mpg. So Bill it sounds like your right on the money with you comparison. Like you I expected more but you were closer I figured 3 to 5. So your smarter then me or just a better guesser:wink: As for the circ pump we did that on my 502 with the full flow closed system. the draw was less than 1 hp. Remember there was no fan attached to the pump, just the pulley. What we did find was at high rpms the circ pump cavitates and there is even less of a draw. What I don't know what the raw water pump draws at idle. at speed it is aided by the water pressure and uses less power. The whole point is the ps and alt. draw very little and would cause less of a speed loss than a bad prop blade. Now guys have at it that is all the info I have. BTW the customer took the under drive pulleys back to whom ever. I was thinking on an acceleration test there would possibly be more of a difference.
On the companies and pulley size statement. Yes a lot of engineering goes into that, at least at Honda. There are some cars that have the same alternator but a different pulley.

What kind of manual steering did you have that didn't pull? My Minx has manual cable steer. I can tell you the load differences are astounding between going slow and going fast. At slow speeds the manual steer is easier than power steering, high speeds it is ridiculous. It's so bad I'm trying to find a hydraulic ram, internal or external, so I don't have to deal with the high speed pull anymore. Even my brother's 22 with power steering pulled. if you can't let go of the wheel while running, the steering system is doing work... My brother upgraded for safety, afraid if his hands slipped off the wheel in big waves, etc.

I didn't say or assume you didn't move the wheel. I assumed you didn't have wheels and tires mounted with weight on them based on your description in the post.

Any way you slice it I wasn't knocking the effort or anything of that nature. It is only a few HP under normal load so I totally agree that under drive pulleys are not worth it on a boat, neither is removing power steering for a manual setup.

BigGrizzly
07-02-2008, 05:36 PM
I had a teleflex both rack and the standard 1970 unit. There is always a sweet spot that trim and speed there is no pull. now wfo there was pull except on the non power hydraulic. One thing I can tell you is Rapid transit's unit doesn pull even at top speed with that old Volvo. there are others on the board have the same situation.
One thing I can tell you is if your brothers power steering pulls it IS broken, or he tied the cable up. I had seen a lot of Minx discussions and I can not recall any about pulling.
Actually They described the procedures and the wheel was in constant motion, with a restrictive shock load only when it hit the stops did the draw rise. I would describe the restrictive shock to you but you would say there is a better one your brother uses.
You must really have a low of other people. You constantly find fault with their findings. Yet you ask some of the most rudimentary questions. You want hydraulic steering, for safety go out and get hydraulic steering, there is a post on OSO telling how you can do it for under $500 using snow plow parts.
Have a Nice day

gero1
07-02-2008, 05:47 PM
xr out drives draw somewhere around 65-80hp...yea it was done on a dyno. some shop out of tx did it. dyno sheet was posted on here in another thread, think it was in a moter building thread

blackhawk
07-02-2008, 05:56 PM
Since we're talking about power losses due to various accessorys, I wonder if anyone can speculate (or calculate) the power loss through an Out Drive?.


A standard Bravo is 8 or 9%, I can't remember for sure. A XR will absorb a little more.

DonziJon
07-02-2008, 07:09 PM
There is an engineering formula for calculating power loss through gears. It's been way too long since I have dealt with this. I seem to remember that going through a 90 degree change of direction was the worst case. The OD goes through TWO 90 degree changes. BTW: Chain drive is the most effecient..hence hot motorcycles still have chains.

Somewhere I also seem to think the power loss through my Alpha I was about 25-30 HP. My 350 SBC is 260 HP at the flywheel. Around 1992 or so, Mercruiser ...and everyone else went to rating HP at the PROP. It was probably an ANSI..or Government mandate. Don't remember. Young engineers step up. I know we have a couple on this board. John

VetteLT193
07-02-2008, 07:29 PM
I had a teleflex both rack and the standard 1970 unit. There is always a sweet spot that trim and speed there is no pull. now wfo there was pull except on the non power hydraulic. One thing I can tell you is Rapid transit's unit doesn pull even at top speed with that old Volvo. there are others on the board have the same situation.
One thing I can tell you is if your brothers power steering pulls it IS broken, or he tied the cable up. I had seen a lot of Minx discussions and I can not recall any about pulling.
Actually They described the procedures and the wheel was in constant motion, with a restrictive shock load only when it hit the stops did the draw rise. I would describe the restrictive shock to you but you would say there is a better one your brother uses.
You must really have a low of other people. You constantly find fault with their findings. Yet you ask some of the most rudimentary questions. You want hydraulic steering, for safety go out and get hydraulic steering, there is a post on OSO telling how you can do it for under $500 using snow plow parts.
Have a Nice day

My brother has a ton of experience with Donzi's and has gladly shared them with me. Sorry for sharing his experiences to the BigGrizzly God who knows better than anyone else.

Some people think that basic posts to get more information are attacks. I question everything, this is how I was educated... It is how you learn the most and gain the most detail and understanding. I already said I'm not personally attacking you or your efforts. Instead of describing what happened in detail you gave little information even after I questioned the procedure. There are 2 sides to every story. I guess you believe every darn thing you read so you don't use your boat anymore because all the people who have published global warming articles.

I am rounding parts up for my new steering system, thanks. I researched, read, questioned, learned, and figured out what I need.

I ask rudimentary questions when I think someone has a quick and easy answer because they have gone through the exact situation before. I'm glad you know how to do all the basics. My more recent boating background is with much larger boats. I obviously shouldn't have bought a Donzi and tried to re-learn the basics of small I/O boats. I also shouldn't have questioned the old timer experts who know everything about everything. God forbid people read a post that has a gaping hole in it, with both logic and lack of explanation, and question it. And no, you didn't respond to my post in any kind of detail or logical manner. And instead of just saying, hey, I don't know all the details: I'm just posting what I know. you decided to personally attack me.

I'm generally an easy going guy that likes to get all the details. I also like to share all the details that I know. If you don't want to share the details then don't respond at all.

DonziJon
07-03-2008, 08:50 AM
What kind of manual steering did you have that didn't pull? My Minx has manual cable steer. I can tell you the load differences are astounding between going slow and going fast. At slow speeds the manual steer is easier than power steering, high speeds it is ridiculous. It's so bad I'm trying to find a hydraulic ram, internal or external, so I don't have to deal with the high speed pull anymore. Even my brother's 22 with power steering pulled. if you can't let go of the wheel while running, the steering system is doing work... My brother upgraded for safety, afraid if his hands slipped off the wheel in big waves, etc.
I didn't say or assume you didn't move the wheel. I assumed you didn't have wheels and tires mounted with weight on them based on your description in the post.
Any way you slice it I wasn't knocking the effort or anything of that nature. It is only a few HP under normal load so I totally agree that under drive pulleys are not worth it on a boat, neither is removing power steering for a manual setup.

I'm a big fan of details as well. My Minx (stock) has no pull in any direction at any speed to speak of. There is a push pull cable running from the wheel back to the "Power Assist" ram on the steering arm at the transom. There "May Be" a vertically mounted trim tab/fin (It's an anode as well) under the cavitation plate on your Alpha I. Most drives today have done away with it and there is only a flat plate (Still an anode) where the tab used to be. You can loosen the bolt that holds the tab and rotate the tab to a slight off center angle, to counter the pull to one side at speed.

My guess is however, that your power steering pump is faulty, because my boat, even without the little tab, does not have any pull worth noting. There are two different tabs available. One is larger than the other. If you run a Cleaver, you will have to use the smaller tab to allow clearance for the prop blade tips. John

BigGrizzly
07-03-2008, 09:35 AM
Well thank you for realizing who is the god and I am taking this personally. As for a ton of experience I have owned classics since 1966,and still have our first one. I grew up on the water on the Atlantic ocean. Our biggest boat was a Chris Craft Romer and the smallest was a 8 foot pram I lived in a Marina every summer for 30 years. I have been a a mechanic my entire life. I graduated from college with a system design degree. You have no IDEA who you are talking to. Review your posts and do the research you say you do. stainless steel J rub rail, 22ZX handling, Tempest engine drive combination etc.:confused:
This is a waist of MY time.
Have a nice day

Conquistador_del_mar
07-03-2008, 11:39 AM
as for the air conditioning thing, when I worked at Honda we found that the 88 Acura at 60mph cruise with ambient temperature of 85 degrees, don't remember the humidity, the horse power draw was approximately 7hp. which did decrease the mpg by about 1.2 mpg. So Bill it sounds like your right on the money with you comparison. Like you I expected more but you were closer I figured 3 to 5. So your smarter then me or just a better guesser:wink:

I would think that the 7HP draw of the Acura compressor would be on the low end compared to some compressors, but in today's car and truck fuel efficient design, I might be wrong. My 2001 4.7L Tundra loses right at 1MPG in overall driving with the AC running, but that is a small price to pay here in north Texas - lol. On a side note, I have a 1967 Thunderbird with the 428CID engine option. The old York AC compressor really takes the idle RPM down when turned on so I have to figure it draws quite a few ponies to slow down a big block Ford engine likes it does. Nope, I was just a luckier guesser. Bill

gcarter
07-03-2008, 12:51 PM
I spent a number of years designing multi-stage centrifugal pumps for oil wells, but we did our testing in water. There's a lot that can be done with volute and vane impellor design. With enough time and effort, you can design and build a pump that will operate in the 93-95% efficiency range. But this is not the case with most pumps.
When you look at the 55 GPM Meziere heavy duty pump, it's a thing of beauty and I'm sure it operates very effeciently w/its CNC impellor and volute. It draws 12 AMPS which equals .2 HP. That's pretty good. You also gain form not having the losses of a belt (belts aren't free...there's hysterysis in the system along w/some friction).
If you look at the typical automotive circ pump, the pump housing is wide open w/no thought given to shape. Also the impellor is bent up in sheet metal w/straight radial impellor vanes so they can be run in either direction. It's probably the worst possible design, but little thought is given to it in the overall engine package. Rather than pump, it more or less churns the water (or coolant) in a more or less general direction. I've read that most of the types of pumps we use will pump 70-100 GPM and assuming a head of 15' would be about .4 HP but at, say, 20% efficiency, you're looking at 2 HP. Then add in another .25 HP for the belt for a total of 2.25 HP. When you look at the design of the pumps we use, the efficiency may not be that good so the power required may be more.
Now you can see why I like the Meziere.

BigGrizzly
07-03-2008, 04:53 PM
When Honda puts a package together, it is a package aimed at fuel economy. There are similar compressors used in the Saturn that draw about another 2 HP. The end result is cooler ac temp. We make it good but won't sacrifice fuel economy. remember that was a steady state 60mph cruise. I was there and saw it.

BUIZILLA
07-03-2008, 05:22 PM
When you look at the 55 GPM Meziere heavy duty pump, 55 GPM is 3,300 GPH......... that's a huge amount of water flow.. your replacing the water volume content of a BBC 13.75 times every minute.....

that can't be right.. ?

gcarter
07-03-2008, 05:34 PM
55 GPM is 3,300 GPH......... that's a huge amount of water flow.. your replacing the water volume content of a BBC 13.75 times every minute.....
that can't be right.. ?
Scary ain't it?:eek!:
http://www.meziere.com/ps-1148-0-WP336S.aspx

Of course that's with no backpressure at all, which probably seldom or never happens.

DonziJon
07-03-2008, 06:14 PM
55 GPM is 3,300 GPH......... that's a huge amount of water flow.. your replacing the water volume content of a BBC 13.75 times every minute.....
that can't be right.. ?

You're ignoring the Hysterysis. :smash: John

DonziJon
07-03-2008, 06:58 PM
Speaking of Pumps: When I was a NAVY Puke back in the 60s, we had a fire fighting pump called a P-500. It was mounted in a frame not unlike todays portable generators. It could be carried by a couple (hopefully more) very well built sailors. It was powered by a 1940s Evinrude 4 cylinder (Opposed) gas engine adapted for this application. It was supposed to be good for 500 GPM. The problem was..it was NOT electric starting and was usually reluctant to start..with the pull starter. We also had a P-250 but we never got to use it because it was too light weight. :bonk: John

MOP
07-03-2008, 07:39 PM
VetteLT193 curious about your Minx not having power assist, why was it removed?

Back to the PS pump question, in thinking about prop torque there is quite a load on the steering. How many of you have spit the PS belt and had to drive home, let me tell you your arms will remember that ride for some time. Very little of the drive torque is felt at the wheel as the PS pump is doing its job, that means there is several ponies being used. The only guys that have no lose are the hydraulic setups that do not use a PS pump

gcarter
07-03-2008, 08:23 PM
Back to the PS pump question, in thinking about prop torque there is quite a load on the steering. How many of you have spit the PS belt and had to drive home, let me tell you your arms will remember that ride for some time. V
Why Phil, it turns very easily to the left!

MOP
07-03-2008, 08:54 PM
Why Phil, it turns very easily to the left!

Lets be straight about this!!!!!

donzi2287
07-03-2008, 09:20 PM
your boat doesn't pull with standard mercruiser power steering???? bull crapola!!!!!!! I put full Latham for safety reasons.... because you never know.

donzi2287
07-03-2008, 09:22 PM
by the way.... that is straight!!!

donzi2287
07-03-2008, 09:33 PM
standard mercruiser steering turns to one direction when you let go of the wheel at cruising speeds. At idle, it goes relatively straight, however the drive wanders left and right. With my full hydraulic steering and external bar it helps stop the wander at idle and now at speeds it's straight.

donzi2287
07-03-2008, 09:47 PM
10-4 good buddy!! this isn't an argument, just i'm stating of all the many single mercruisers from the factory that i have steered, they have done what i said. period.

chappy
07-04-2008, 07:47 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzlG28B-R8Y

:)

BigGrizzly
07-04-2008, 08:18 AM
Buzz, describe your power steering pull on your boat at Sarasota This year and then tell them why it did it. I want to watch this:popcorn:

BUIZILLA
07-04-2008, 08:25 AM
nope, not gonna say a word,,,, :wink: :hangum: :nilly: :cool:

DonziJon
07-04-2008, 09:51 AM
standard mercruiser steering turns to one direction when you let go of the wheel at cruising speeds. At idle, it goes relatively straight, however the drive wanders left and right. With my full hydraulic steering and external bar it helps stop the wander at idle and now at speeds it's straight.

You're not supposed to let go of the wheel at cruising speed.... except maybe just for a second to reach for a beer. BTW: When I drive my Minx at speed, I only need two fingers on the wheel..the other hand on the throttle.:hangum: John

BigGrizzly
07-04-2008, 10:55 AM
I see a large liability suit heading to Mercruiser on pulling power steering. Wait until some lawyer picks up this thread.:eek!:

smokediver
07-04-2008, 05:20 PM
hot rod mag did a dyno test on a motor with a fan and belt driven water pump and then the kind george was talking about ... 35 hp difference .. :shocking:

gcarter
07-04-2008, 09:59 PM
At least 30 of that was the fan I'd be willing to wager....
Yep...I'd agree.

VetteLT193
07-04-2008, 11:51 PM
Well thank you for realizing who is the god and I am taking this personally. As for a ton of experience I have owned classics since 1966,and still have our first one. I grew up on the water on the Atlantic ocean. Our biggest boat was a Chris Craft Romer and the smallest was a 8 foot pram I lived in a Marina every summer for 30 years. I have been a a mechanic my entire life. I graduated from college with a system design degree. You have no IDEA who you are talking to. Review your posts and do the research you say you do. stainless steel J rub rail, 22ZX handling, Tempest engine drive combination etc.:confused:
This is a waist of MY time.
Have a nice day

The J rail I said I was wrong on and already posted accordingly, but I also posted pictures of the rail my brother used. Looks better than the J rail so who gives a flying F***.

22ZX handling I think I deferred to you if memory serves correct. I'm glad you feel so good to know that boat well.

Tempest drive... still confused there. I flat out said what I know and you confirmed what I know. Glad you brought that up. Maybe we should debate how Horsepower is calculated again? I am pretty sure you are the one who thinks that is theory and all these calculations are BS? maybe you used some made up calculation to rate your ponies?

I loved your post in my Barry grant fuel lines thread, you couldn't comprehend the question I asked. It is laughable that you reiterated facts I already posted and didn't answer the question. I guess your college didn't teach you reading comprehension on top of not allowing questioning.

You remind me of so many Corvette guys: There is this group of guys that think they know what you want and push it on you like it is the only thing in the world. I really love your post in my High 5 thread. No matter how different I run my boat than you run yours you think you know what I need. I have a young family aboard my boat and am interested in a MUCH different boating experience than you are. If you can't comprehend the difference, don't respond.

BTW: I grew up on the water. The room I grew up in was within 50 feet of navigable water, and on an island. I was water skiing at 2 years old (thanks to my big bro who got in the water with me and helped me up).

Also, congrats, I have had THOUSANDS of unproblematic posts in various forums over years of internet use and have never had a problem with anyone. You are the FIRST to make my block list. I have had more thank you posts than I can remember because I try my BEST to help anyone I can yet you find some problem with me.

Oh, and there is power to be gained by under drive pulleys. it has been proven time and time again... very rare instances show little to no gains. The perfect instance that PROVES GAINS are, and look at my screen name, the LT1 (and LT4) GM engines. I have owned 3 of these engines. The water pump is cam driven on these engines, yet the addition of under drive pulleys still prove to add power. and it is more than .6 HP :nilly: . The industry standard for Power Steering is roughly 3 HP... yet your crack team of mechanics find differently. Glad you can be so specific on what those mechanics ate that night but lack any detail regarding the test.


VetteLT193 curious about your Minx not having power assist, why was it removed?
Back to the PS pump question, in thinking about prop torque there is quite a load on the steering. How many of you have spit the PS belt and had to drive home, let me tell you your arms will remember that ride for some time. Very little of the drive torque is felt at the wheel as the PS pump is doing its job, that means there is several ponies being used. The only guys that have no lose are the hydraulic setups that do not use a PS pump

I have no idea why it was removed, I bought it like that. It pulls like nuts at speed. Yes, I have trimmed it every way, etc. When the prop spins one way it pulls... just the way it is. I have a couple parts on their way to start the hydraulic swap. I would post the details as I do the work but I have a crappy taste in my mouth right now, even with the other members writing me... :doh:

BigGrizzly
07-05-2008, 08:24 AM
Scott, You are almost right on. The reason the auto manufactures went to electric and Hydraulic drives(like my Jeep) was for the economy, less drag. I can remember on my old Jeep when the thermal clutch fan locked on I lost anout 3 mpg on the highway. This was one of the only times I saw one of these type fans lock on. BTW In case your wondering, there was more going on at Lg with the electric. The alternator was bad and I almost lost the new one too. Starter was really toast. I had starter assist at one point:shocking:.
Vette, I really don't care. Your spending an awful lot of time defending yourself. I don't have to prove myself to you. Unlike most I build what I run,I don't buy it. I am not the fastest, the pretties or cleanest, but I am darn good. Anyone who has seen my stuff, ridden with me or has been to my place, is sitting back with a grin on their face.

BigGrizzly
07-05-2008, 08:45 AM
Scott, yesterday was beautiful. The engine started and idled as usual. There must been one heck of an electrical draw. all is OK and we are good to go. New super starter and a bigger alternator(now I carry a spare), we are happy.