Smallest Safest Tow Vehicle

[Ed Donnelly]

My lease is up on my Gas Pig 2006 Harley F150AWD..
I average 9.4 mpg city/hwy. Ford can find no reason for the sh*t mileage..

What is the minimum size vehicle that will safely tow a 22' classic with a tandem steel trailor???

What is the average weight of a 22 with a steel trailor??? ..Ed

P.S. What do you think of the Dodge Magnum, Hummer 3, Dodge Nitro??

[zelatore]

Ed, if you're going to tow any distance at all I still think you want a 1/2 ton truck or SUV equivalent for a 22. Especially with a steel trailer.

9.8 mpg is just cr@p. No doubt. Heck, I just managed over 11 from Sacramento to Lake Powell and back towing my 22 (aluminum trailer) between 65 and 85 mph over a couple minor mountain ranges. That was with my '05 Ram quad cab 2wd hemi. With no trailer I can get 16-17 mixed driving pretty regularly. The latest rigs should do even better.

I know a lot of people tow much more with much less, but I just hate it. Nothing worse than letting your trailer tow YOU! Or not being able to maintain freeway speed up the hills. Or using 5 miles of highway to merge. Until I've got a Kenworth, I'll never have enough tow rig! And I don’t put much (any!) stock in the ‘advertised’ tow ratings. I think my truck is factory rated at 8500 lbs. No Way, No How! That’s just advertising one-upmanship!

Ditch the 4wd - any of the current major half-tons should get near twice the mileage you've been getting if you keep your foot even a little light. And with the way trucks are selling these days you should be able to get a smokin' deal. Just yesterday I heard an advert from Ford about 'dealer pricing to the public'. It may mean nothing, but you know all the truck makers are struggling. (Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Toyota, Nissan) I suspect RoadtripSE can comment further.

If you can wait, and are willing to pay a little more, Ford and Dodge will be bringing new half-tons to market for '09. I'll be very interested in the new Ford when it gets here.

As for weight, I've never weighed your particular set-up, but I'll guess about 6000 lbs. I estimate my rig with aluminum trailer at 5000 or so but I've never weighed it so it's strictly seat of the pants stuff.

[BUIZILLA]

look at the Ford Flex.....

in black....

[VetteLT193]

My lease is up on my Gas Pig 2006 Harley F150AWD..
I average 9.4 mpg city/hwy. Ford can find no reason for the sh*t mileage..
What is the minimum size vehicle that will safely tow a 22' classic with a tandem steel trailor???
What is the average weight of a 22 with a steel trailor??? ..Ed
P.S. What do you think of the Dodge Magnum, Hummer 3, Dodge Nitro??

I just towed my Minx from here to DeLand (cuda's house) with my Lincoln Navigator. Got 13.9 Hwy running 70-80MPH (mostly 70). in the slower speed range through the back roads I was getting over 15 including some stop lights. And those numbers were disappointing to me because I usually get closer to 20MPG on the highway without towing.

The magnum will not do what you want it to. As far as the H3 and Nitro go: It is NO FUN to tow more weight than your vehicle, I know from experience. If you are hauling 4k pounds of boat and trailer, try to find a vehicle that weighs more than that. My old tow vehicle was a Dodge Dakota V8. Towing my Minx or my brothers 22 required constant attention. It was doable but it was a very tiresome ride.

Also, you HD truck has a supercharger that is not designed for gas mileage. I'm still pretty surprised that they didn't use a centrifugal supercharger, they don't kill your gas mileage. Maybe just a regular truck that doesn't have a blower on it would be better...

[smokediver]

i finally got rid of my car and van and bought a silverado extended cab .. I am getting between 16 and 18 running around and 19 on the highway .. i just towed my boat about 400 miles and averaged 14.5 running along at 70-75 mph ... towing an 18 with a steel trailer ...

[MOP]

Ed my Dodge Dakota did a decent job of towing my 22, it was a 1/2 ton with a V6 and limited slip rear. I did a little time in the mountains and it ran up the hills just fine using tow mode, and got an average of 15. I am sure it did even better on the flat got 21-22 no tow, many times I wish I had kept it and not gone over to the suburban. My sub is 2 wheel with posi and traction control it does the same mileage as the Dakota. But you can't beat a pickup with a club cab, makes for one heck of a do all ride.

Phil

[Ed Donnelly]

Vette; No supercharger on the F150. but it does have the wonderful A.W.D.
which the dealer disconnected to see if the mileage improved( it didn't)

Buizilla;Ford Flex in black.. How much better mileage will I get with black rather than red or blue????.............Ed

Lenny; HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

[zimm17]

Perfect timing for this thread. I just sold my F250 7.3L turbo diesel that was built up with 37" tires and 6" lift. Not for the mpg, I got 14, but my wife couldn't drive it, and it wouldn't fit in a parking garage.

Now I'm on the hunt for a smaller tow vehicle. I'd like to stick with gasoline- diesel is too expensive, and I can't get it on the Navy base.

I was looking at the '08 Toyota 4runner V8- they're $7k under msrp right now, reviews show they get about 17mpg in town and around 20mpg highway. ($29K for a 4x4 V8 Sport)

Also '08 Nissan Pathfinder with the 315hp V8 from the Titan. Only gets 12mpg though.

Nissan Titan crew cab- same big V8, but ugly 12mpg too.

Toying with the idea of a Chevy Silverado- they get decent mpg with the cylinder de-activation- only problem is the "built it" calculator keeps ringing up $44k when I click all the cool options I'd like: big tow package, 20" wheels, sun roof, etc.

Or a Tahoe with the same stuff as above...

Any ideas for a V8 powered not-supersized vehicle? It'll be a third vehicle, we both have good mpg commuters (hybrid civic for her, 40mpg and mazda MX5 for me, 27mpg) and only used when taking out a group of people, big shopping runs, taking the dog somewhere, or pulling the boat.

I'd like to stay under $30,000 whether it's new or used. Some new V8 SUV's are going for the same price as the used ones since they are sitting on the lot.

Full size SUV is probably out- she drove an Armada and thought it was toooo big to get around in.

[VetteLT193]

Vette; No supercharger on the F150. but it does have the wonderful A.W.D.
which the dealer disconnected to see if the mileage improved( it didn't)
Buizilla;Ford Flex in black.. How much better mileage will I get with black rather than red or blue????.............Ed
Lenny; HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM


Whoops, I thought all the HD's were blown. My Navigator has the on dash switchable gear case. 2WD, Auto AWD, 4WD, 4Lo. I see no MPG difference in the 2WD vs. Auto AWD.

You are welcome to borrow my Dakota for a while to try it out but I think you are too far from me? Maybe if you come to homecoming :crossfing:

I REALLY wanted a new vehicle this time, just to do it once, but I wound up used again. Used is so much cheaper it's hard to turn down. You can pick up Lincoln Mark LT's for 20k under warranty, they get about the same MPG as the Navigator. I looked at them too, I really wanted one, but the wife won :wink:

[Dr. Dan]

:smash: I have towed 15 to 20,000 Miles each year I have had my 22 Classic. I highly recommend a longer wheel base vehicle. I love my 2002 Z-71 Suburban it gets about 15 mpg unless I am following Poodle or Roadtrip or some other lunatic. I recently bought a 2006 F250 PSD Harley Edition I get 14.5 to 16 mpg towing the Classic. Without I get 19 mpg easily and have gotten as high as 24 mpg on the highway.

My Steel Trailer is very heavy about 1500lbs or so. an average steel trailer will be closer to 1100 lbs with a dual axle. I added alot of equipt and options to mine so its a pig... but I also Tow way too much. Used Suburbans are easy to come by, ride like a Cadillac and can be used for alot. I like to have options...this season I have only used the Deisel... but I would not hesitate to use the Burban... oh BTW way did I mention I have only a scrawny 5.3 EFI Motor in it and it has 297,500 original miles on it, I drive it every day for my Sales Job. I would buy another....

Good Luck

Doc :wink:

[Air 22]

"Used Suburbans are easy to come by, ride like a Cadillac and can be used for alot"

Yes...the Cadillac's do ride well....:wink: 2008 Escalade ESV 21mpg Highway@ 70gps...lol... Towing our 22 Classic on a Custom Poodle Special aluminum trailer 15-17mpg avg...22Classic 3400lbs dry...Aluminum trailer 800lbs...add all the BS in boat , trailer and tow vehicle now ya talking 6000+ lbs...With that 403HP monster under the hood ya forget your towing something.... My old 3/4 Ton suburban with a 4.10 Rear End only got 10mpg avg towing but it worked like a dream...110,112mi

I'm with Doc...The longer wheelbase makes for a stable ride and is safe! Remember..STOPPING is just as important if not more so than acceleration...:drive:

[Ed Donnelly]

Thankyou for all the replies..
Now I am really confused......

Gas at $5.40 a gallon really hurts when you drive the gas guzzler for work.

I get a car allowance which used to help offset the lousey mileage..

I don't need the box on the pick up anymore,as I just carry tools and analizer now,but, still need room for 5..

Will now start looking at used Burbs,Navs, and oldman Cads
Oh wait.. I m old..................Ed

[mjw930]

I bought an '07 Trailblazer SS before I had the Donzi so I could tow an enclosed 8X12 trailer but I've found it tows the 22 with an aluminum trailer without any problem.

The Trailblazer is the last midsize SUV to come with a full frame and a V8 so it has a 6700lb tow rating. The SS adds the LS2 Corvette motor along with an airbag rear suspension. The fuel economy isn't very good, about 18 MPG on the highway without anything hooked up IF I keep it under 80 mph. Towing the Donzi @ 70 mph it drops to about 12 MPG, 10 if I have a lot of stop and go traffic.

The only problem I've had is with the differential. I'm about to take it back in @ 13K miles to have the second one replaced. The LSD gives up and it starts acting like a lockout differential for no apparent reason. The first symptom is a groaning noise whenever you make a turn. The first one went before I even started towing the 22. Thank goodness for the 5yr / 100,000 mile powertrain warranty. They can keep replacing them every year for all I care.

[VetteLT193]

I bought an '07 Trailblazer SS before I had the Donzi so I could tow an enclosed 8X12 trailer but I've found it tows the 22 with an aluminum trailer without any problem.

The Trailblazer is the last midsize SUV to come with a full frame and a V8 so it has a 6700lb tow rating. The SS adds the LS2 Corvette motor along with an airbag rear suspension. The fuel economy isn't very good, about 18 MPG on the highway without anything hooked up IF I keep it under 80 mph. Towing the Donzi @ 70 mph it drops to about 12 MPG, 10 if I have a lot of stop and go traffic.

The only problem I've had is with the differential. I'm about to take it back in @ 13K miles to have the second one replaced. The LSD gives up and it starts acting like a lockout differential for no apparent reason. The first symptom is a groaning noise whenever you make a turn. The first one went before I even started towing the 22. Thank goodness for the 5yr / 100,000 mile powertrain warranty. They can keep replacing them every year for all I care.

I looked at the Trailblazer SS too. One hot SUV. When it came to used I found that they were either ragged out or not loaded with options. My wife wanted the extra crap the Navigator has. I wanted that Corvette engine :cool:

[zelatore]

The Trailblazer is the last midsize SUV to come with a full frame and a V8 so it has a 6700lb tow rating.

That is key. A couple years ago I looked at an Infinity FX45; I figured with 300 odd hp it should be up to some towing then I saw it was rated very low, no doubt due to the unibody design. And this was before I had the 22 to tow, so I was thinking of towing even less weight at the time. I suspect the Porsche SUV (blasphemy that it is) probably suffers from the same thing: plenty of power but not a good tow rig due to design/weight/wheelbase issues.

A 22 Classic may not be a big boat, but it’s big enough that you want a real truck or truck-based SUV. If you’ve got the coin, I’ve towed a 26’ diesel center consol with the Caddy ESV. I wouldn’t buy one myself, but it is pretty nice. And as mentioned above, it should be worlds better than your old truck in gas mileage.

Heck, ANYTHING should be better than the old truck! Something was clearly wrong there!

[MOP]

Ed you may want to consider a two wheel drive suburban, example my son inlaw has a 03 4X4 he gets 12 in town and 16 0n the road, I have a 02 2 wheeler with posi and traction control which does very well on the ramps, I get 16 in town ans 20.5 at 70 using cruise control. No data on towing with the 2002 yet, but my 1997 also two wheel posi Sub gets the same not towing. The 97 gets 13 towing checked three times running up to the river, as most know there is some serious hills for 65% of that trip.

Phil

[onesubdrvr]

Ok,...

I'm going to be the oddball here (AGAIN! ;))

I used my Dodge Durango to tow with, 13mpg towing from South Florida to North Florida my Ragazza. Speed averaged 75mph. My wife gets about 18 with it as a daily driver.

Granted, I don't have alot of things to compare with other than my old F-250 Diesel (not as good of mileage, but more constant between towing and normal mileage), and my E-250 work van that I tow portable compressors with (but most of the ones I tow are MUCH MUCH lighter than my Ragazza was), it's only a 6 cylinder, but get's crappy mileage, probably only 2mpg more than the 8 cylinder.

I'm getting rid of my Durango as I don't have a boat right now, and when I do get a boat, I'll get a used truck to tow it with, but wouldn't hesitate to tow any boat up to 24+ feet with it.

Wayne

[zelatore]

I haven't towed with a Durango, but I have used a Dakota and it's the same rig underneath. I think it would do OK with a 22 in most situations, but I don't know if it would really offer much mileage improvement over a regular 1/2 ton truck/SUV. In the flat lands of FL, I'm sure it would be fine. Get it into the mountains and it might be a little more work.

It all comes down to where you to and what you expect out of a tow rig. I’ve already said my preference is for as much truck as I can get, and I think you’ll find anything short of an H1 should get better mileage than you were getting from the Hardley-Ableson truck.

[zimm17]

The Trailblazer is the last midsize SUV to come with a full frame and a V8 so it has a 6700lb tow rating.


Ummm.... I think you're wrong here. The Toyota 4runner has a full frame and V8. As well a few other mid-size suvs. The 4runner has a 7000# tow rating.

[zimm17]

That is key. A couple years ago I looked at an Infinity FX45; I figured with 300 odd hp it should be up to some towing then I saw it was rated very low, no doubt due to the unibody design. And this was before I had the 22 to tow, so I was thinking of towing even less weight at the time.

My parent's have an '04 FX45. AWESOME SUV for driving, it's like an oversized, 315hp, AWD sportscar on 20" wheels. Only problem is the 3500 lb tow rating. It's got to be from the uni-body construction, because the power and brakes are there. I guess the trailer hitch would rip right out...

[VetteLT193]

Ummm.... I think you're wrong here. The Toyota 4runner has a full frame and V8. As well a few other mid-size suvs. The 4runner has a 7000# tow rating.

I assumed MJ was referring to something more technical, or has a tighter size constraint. I consider the Explorer to be mid sized and in competition with the Trailblazer... it is body on frame as well. It's probably harder to find one that isn't body on frame in that size class. Jeep Grand Cherokee is the only one I can think of.

[zelatore]

I assumed MJ simply meant the last GM mid size with a frame.

You know how those chevy guys are. There's Chevy, then....nothing. :wink:


Oh, and tow 7000 lbs with a 4-runner? You've GOT to be kidding! Maybe if you live in Kansas where an overpass is the biggest hill for 500 miles!

I wouldn't want to tow 7000 behind a 1/2 ton truck with any regularity. Yeah, it would do it but it wouldn't be much fun. Like I said before, I think the factory tow ratings are all BS - pure sales gimicks. If anybody had to really tow 7000 lbs regularly or in any sort of terrain, they'd be shopping for a 3/4 ton truck.

[BigGrizzly]

OK here comes Big Grizzly. I tow with both a Ford Expedition (5.4 )and a Jeep Grand Cherokee (4.7). My Criterion weigh 3720 empty an over 4,000 full of fuel. I usually tow full and get between 12 and 15 MPG. on the Ford when pushing it 75->80 and going to Wisconsin with the Jeep I did up to 16 MPG. Both these units use regular gas 87 octane. I usually take the Expedition because I bring several props to the events. I like both these units. Btw the Ford is a two wheel drive, and have never had an issue even at Cumberland.

[MOP]

I have posted about the advantage of 2 wheel over 4 wheel on a slimy ramp. On two different occasions I have pulled friends boats out that may have blown their their transfer cases. What happens is the rear wheels are on slime and spin very easy, the fronts are on dry concrete. When you pour the coals to it to pull the boat out the backs spin like crazy and the front end hops wildly. With 2 wheel and posi you can ease up the ramp with little to no slip, my one friend has a 26 foot Cruisers express which is quite a bit heavier then my 22. I can pull it and he can't as he has no posi so using 2 wheel in his is useless! I had 4X4 for nearly 40 years and no way would I bother with 4X4 again, I have found my 2 wheel to be better at the ramp, safer in slick road conditions and far more economical. Some will argue the slick road conditions, for the deep snow guys 4X4 is a must. But next winter go by any auto body shop after a storm check the fact of just how many 4X4's are there compared to 2 wheelers, I have several close bus with body shops they LOVE SUV 4X4's.

Phil

[zelatore]

But next winter go by any auto body shop after a storm check the fact of just how many 4X4's are there compared to 2 wheelers, I have several close bus with body shops they LOVE SUV 4X4's.
Phil

No, they love idiots who think 4wd makes them invincible. A 4wd can, technically, outperform a 2wd in bad conditions. It can't however compensate for a loose nut behind the wheel.

When I lived in Southern Indiana where it would only snow once or twice a year we had the same thing. My favorite story to come from that was a friend from Gary, IN (think lake effect snow) who drove his Alfa Romeo Spider to work one morning through some pretty serious snow only to find his boss and everybody else with their SUV's had not been able to make it to the office. :smash:

But, uh, no. I don't think you need 4wd for most ramps either.

[Air 22]

I have posted about the advantage of 2 wheel over 4 wheel on a slimy ramp. On two different occasions I have pulled friends boats out that may have blown their their transfer cases. What happens is the rear wheels are on slime and spin very easy, the fronts are on dry concrete. When you pour the coals to it to pull the boat out the backs spin like crazy and the front end hops wildly. With 2 wheel and posi you can ease up the ramp with little to no slip, my one friend has a 26 foot Cruisers express which is quite a bit heavier then my 22. I can pull it and he can't as he has no posi so using 2 wheel in his is useless! I had 4X4 for nearly 40 years and no way would I bother with 4X4 again, I have found my 2 wheel to be better at the ramp, safer in slick road conditions and far more economical. Some will argue the slick road conditions, for the deep snow guys 4X4 is a must. But next winter go by any auto body shop after a storm check the fact of just how many 4X4's are there compared to 2 wheelers, I have several close bus with body shops they LOVE SUV 4X4's.
Phil


Just curious:confused:...why would you " Pour the coals to it to pull the boat out?":nilly:
I had a 1999 3/4 Suburban 4x4 to haul out our 22C and on a WET ramp NEVER had any problems..and my 2008 Escalade ESV AWD also performs flawlessly on a WET Ramp.:drive: Boating up and down the East Coast Fresh and Salt water...Neither vehicle required more than minimal throttle to move up the ramp etc.:wink:

[Barry Eller]

Hey, toyoda says they can tow what, 10 or 11k lbs? I mean, like what ya sayin man, the japanese would lie to us? :nilly: :nilly::boggled:


Ah so...:doh:

[mjw930]

I know, I should have said one of the last midsize to come body on frame, aka truck based. IMHO In 2 or 3 years you won't be able to find a midsize SUV that's truck based. If you want that you'll need to do a midsize truck (and those pretty much suck anymore) or a fullsize like the Tahoe or Expedition.

BTW, I'm not a big Chevy fanatic, I just have the TB because I needed something that could tow and I liked the 395 HP motor. Nothing Ford, Jeep or Chrysler had was as much of a kick to drive (except the SRT but that loses it's tow rating in the process). I also got it full loaded for about $31K, $8K off MSRP with supplier discounts and rebates.

BTW, I had an '04 Cayenne Turbo and that can tow 7700 lbs without ANY problems. Of course it's short wheelbase makes it a bit more exciting than it needs to be but they dialed in the IRS pretty well and you would be surprised how stable it is. I know a number of people who tow full size enclosed car carriers with their track cars inside right up to the 7700lb limit without a problem. The VW Touareg and Audi Q7 can do pretty much the same. The huge down side, fuel economy, they have none and they cost, on average, TWICE as much as the truck based SUV's!!!!

[BigGrizzly]

As much as I love Honda and some foreign engineering, There isn't a foreign company that can match the fuel and pick up with the Detroit units. I really PO our VP when we did a time test against the Ridgeline and my 02 grand Cherokee,I smoked them then we switched boats and did it again. That wasn't my best move at that point in time. Your not going to beat cubes even if the Horse powe and torque is the same.

[Air 22]

2008 Escalade ESV AWD 403HP 417lbs Torque 22" Wheels....Hauls our 22C like a dream:drive:. The rear camera makes hook-ups a breeze and the Auto-Leveling System really works well..:cool: AWD tow capcity 7800lbs...:smash:

[Air 22]

Err, Houston,
ahhh,
we have a problem... :smash: :nilly: :smash:


Dang your good:doh:....Well.. Brotha and wingman Bravo One made an assist haul-out while my better half had the Caddy and was helping the economy at the Factory Outlets downtown:doh:......:eek!::nilly::wink:
..."Houston...all is good...We have a green light....."...lol:cool:

[Air 22]

Yeah... :boggled::boggled:
We'll believe that.... :yes:
When we see a picture of the blingmobile actually pulling the boat out of the water. : :hangum:
Or hell, even just down the highway... :doh::doh:





Ok...I'll takes some pic's, video, have it notorized, fly u up, dinner, SamBooka:alky: and Ride in the Bling Mobile:beer:...and u still won't give... so I bow...
:worthy::worthy::worthy::worthy:

BTW...I saw u hang'n that bucket of Bertram Boyz's Bildge sludge on my Caddy's Bling -O-Rapid-Hitch...just wasn't armed at the moment dang it....:)

[Air 22]

BTW...I saw u hang'n that bucket of Bertram Boyz's Bildge sludge on my Caddy's Bling -O-Rapid-Hitch...just wasn't armed at the moment dang it....:smash:

[yeller]

I have probably one of the smaller tow vehicles for a 22C. I just bought an 07 Nissan Frontier, extended cab, V6, 4x4. I too wanted the smallest vehicle that could safely tow the boat. I was a bit concerned about the truck to boat weight ratio when I bought it, but took a chance.
I just used this setup to tow from Vancouver BC to Lake Powell AZ and back. The truck worked great. Towed at 70~75mph in 5th gear (2900rpm) without a problem. (Redline is 6250rpm). It would lose some speed up the long hills, but it wasn't too bad. Had to do a couple emergency stops and the truck was up to the task.
My previous tow vehicle was a 2000 Dodge 1500 with the 5.? (318) and overall the Frontier was a better vehicle in all categories. It had slightly more pulling power and better gas mileage, but what really surprised me was the braking power. Much better stopping power in emergency situations than the Dodge. I expected the braking to be worse, because the Nissan is lighter and thought the boat would push the truck more, but this simply was not the case.

[Cuda]

Whoops, I thought all the HD's were blown. My Navigator has the on dash switchable gear case. 2WD, Auto AWD, 4WD, 4Lo. I see no MPG difference in the 2WD vs. Auto AWD.
You are welcome to borrow my Dakota for a while to try it out but I think you are too far from me? Maybe if you come to homecoming :crossfing:
I REALLY wanted a new vehicle this time, just to do it once, but I wound up used again. Used is so much cheaper it's hard to turn down. You can pick up Lincoln Mark LT's for 20k under warranty, they get about the same MPG as the Navigator. I looked at them too, I really wanted one, but the wife won :wink:
I thought it was new. It sure looked like it. If I'd known it wasn't new, I would have run that outdrive into the side of it, instead of doing a face plant on the trailer. Like I said, I think it's more a matter of wind resistance when towing a boat. With my '05 F350 TD, I'd get around 13 mpg, whether I was towing the heavy azz Formula, or my 18 foot fishboat.

[Cuda]

Sambucca??
Hmm, we need to talk.... :yes::yes::tongue:
That word brings back some very bad memories, or lack of them. :(