HHO continued

[joseph m. hahnl]

in a perfect environment where there are no other gases present to form other various oxides... 2H2+O2 + input energy ---> 2H2O + heat

In a "perfect" environment the octane molecule + O2 should yield carbon dioxide and water vapor... But we know it doesn't due to the presence of nitrogen and other various gases found in the air that is ingested into an engine.

Hence everything becomes complicated and fuzzy... :smash:

(Let's not forget Marijuana:wink:)



I Didn't want to steal Georges thread:hijack:

I thought that this topic warranted more discussion.

I see Rootsy is Skeptical and half right but mostly wrong:yes:
Seems there's allot of spouting off with out doing any research:spit:
( Big surprise there:eek:)
Yes it is true that the splitter you would create would only be a supplement in conjunction with gasoline to improve gas mileage:convertib:
The inventor of the principle Stanley Meyer injected the hydrogen
in through the spark plug hole and used computer control to ignite it:computer:
Which would be to complicated for most of us:doh:
Yes there was a working model that ran only with hydrogen:drive:
Some one asked why an entrepreneur didn't follow through.
The first guy was murdered:hangum: "Would you"??????

Lets not forget the thing called a patent, which Meyer had on the process.

At this time I would like to acknowledge:angel: our on site chemist:drunk: who helped Meyer through thick in thin :worthy:It was his expertise and knowledge that kept Meyer going.:propeller: With out his ingenious :idea:molecular conversions :confused: Meyer would never have been able to complete his work.:smash:
(Pass that over here Buddy:crossfing:)

This is not all smoke and mirrors this is real:shocking:

Honda "who apparently doesn't want to miss the boat:boat:"
Not only has a vehicle but uses the converter to heat and cool your home
(I will research this further as I heard this from word of mouth):tv:

[Rootsy]

Actually Joe,

Let me lay it out for you. I have never taken a hit off of any bong... "HHO" or hydroxy or Brown's Gas as it is normally called was actually discovered by physicist Dr. William Rhodes in the 1960's as he was developing a new gas for cutting torch applications. Brown (I won't call him Dr. as he had a bogus piece of paper from a non existent university) was a hack that promoted this gas while milking money from a lot of people. Want supporting information on this, I am happy to use citations... here ya go... Straight from the horse's mouth...

http://keelynet.com/energy/oxyhyd2.htm

http://keelynet.com/energy/oxyhyd1.htm

http://keelynet.com/energy/oxyhyd3.htm

Furthermore as to my belief that the electrolysis of water and subsequent breaking of the molecule into it's atomic components for use as a fuel supplement or replacement being viable, I can defend it in the following manner. I've done the mathematics, have you? I've been involved with a program at one time that was investigating the feasibility of using this technology to power a vehicle, have you? This was on the University level, with a lot of people much brighter than me. Gee wiz, we didn't use it... it was unfeasible.

In this world there are specific governing laws that make everything go round and round. A certain amount of water can be turned into it's atomic components at a certain rate given a specific current. Plain and simple. You cannot get something from nothing and to get more of something you must put more of something else into the process.

What you are talking about, decomposing water, on board a vehicle, at such a rate as to provide adequate supplemental fuel just is not feasible. The negatives outweigh the benefits.

As far as running an engine on hydrogen... Yep been done, I believe you. But that's a hydrogen cell vehicle using an externally decomposed and bottled fuel source. All of these hacks on youtube with a little cup of water and some baking soda and a hose plumbed into the intake tract are not making miracles happen....

Lastly. Remember that the conservation of energy states that "Energy is neither created nor destroyed". Thus in balancing a chemical equation what goes in must come out. Oops better cite that lest it is believed I did not "research" it... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy

And this is not even discussing anything that goes on inside of an engine.

If you can bend the laws of physics and thermodynamics and come up with a way to decompose water into hydrogen and oxygen at a rate great enough to run an engine or significantly supplement the fuel supply you will be world renowned. To honestly believe that only backyard hacks or one or two people are or have ever tried to make this work you are very naive. There are people out there in academia as well as private industry, both very well funded, working very hard to come up with viable alternatives to gasoline and diesel fuel.

You want to cash in now? Go buy yourself about 20,000 acres in the Southern prairies of Western Canada... Switch grass is a much better fuel source than corn....

[BUIZILLA]

go Rootsy... :smash: :cool:

[chappy]

(Let's not forget Marijuana:wink:)



I Didn't want to steal Georges thread:hijack:

I thought that this topic warranted more discussion.

I see Rootsy is Skeptical and half right but mostly wrong:yes:
Seems there's allot of spouting off with out doing any research:spit:
( Big surprise there:eek:)
Yes it is true that the splitter you would create would only be a supplement in conjunction with gasoline to improve gas mileage:convertib:
The inventor of the principle Stanley Meyer injected the hydrogen
in through the spark plug hole and used computer control to ignite it:computer:
Which would be to complicated for most of us:doh:
Yes there was a working model that ran only with hydrogen:drive:
Some one asked why an entrepreneur didn't follow through.
The first guy was murdered:hangum: "Would you"??????

Lets not forget the thing called a patent, which Meyer had on the process.

At this time I would like to acknowledge:angel: our on site chemist:drunk: who helped Meyer through thick in thin :worthy:It was his expertise and knowledge that kept Meyer going.:propeller: With out his ingenious :idea:molecular conversions :confused: Meyer would never have been able to complete his work.:smash:
(Pass that over here Buddy:crossfing:)

This is not all smoke and mirrors this is real:shocking:

Honda "who apparently doesn't want to miss the boat:boat:"
Not only has a vehicle but uses the converter to heat and cool your home
(I will research this further as I heard this from word of mouth):tv:

Thanks, I needed that laugh. Cheap shot at Mr. Root though. Looks like he can hold his own in the end.

[mrfixxall]

well well! i geg to differ,,thease hho generators can inprove your mpg(built and installed on my old sub)..I was expecting more then 3mpg but at todays gas prices ill take it..Hmm 3 mpg x 31 gal of gas =93 free miles..now divide that by 17 mpg which saves me around 24 bucks at every fill up..:)

Me and my brother have been playing with hho for a couple years and narrowed it down to this..But it still takes alot of energy to produce it..

[VetteLT193]

well well! i geg to differ,,thease hho generators can inprove your mpg(built and installed on my old sub)..I was expecting more then 3mpg but at todays gas prices ill take it..Hmm 3 mpg x 31 gal of gas =93 free miles..now divide that by 17 mpg which saves me around 24 bucks at every fill up..:)
Me and my brother have been playing with hho for a couple years and narrowed it down to this..But it still takes alot of energy to produce it..

Yes it works, but your last statement is the most important. "takes a lot of energy to produce it".

It takes more energy to get the hydrogen out of the water than you get back out of the hydrogen... so, it is a totally inefficient source of power. The only positive is the fact that people could make their own fuel using solar power (or wind or whatever depending on where the person lives). With that in mind hydrogen is better, in either supplement form or as a standalone fuel, for the 'average' American that drives under 50 miles per day.

[gcarter]

I read an article last year and mentioned it at that time, that the chemical bond in water is one of the strongest, if not the strongest in the known universe. Also, if it were'nt, we wouldn't be here and the oceans wouldn't exist.
So it stands to reason that it would be difficult to split it easily.

I've been around long enough to have seen a bunch of gadgets and schemes.....anyone remember the Fish carburator?
(this is a test)

[smoothie]

This is kinda thinking out of the box...for making fuel out of salt water with sound waves.and I dont see a price reduced buy it now for $19.95.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tf4gOS8aoFk

[mrfixxall]

.....anyone remember the Fish carburator..


You mean the 200 mpg carb:)...The m2 i i think was the most popular...Made your car run like a pooch tho!

[cutwater]

They're not using sound waves. What they don't say is how much energy they use with their RF oscillator and power stage per amount of energy released by the burning saltwater. Very cool though. For some reason I thought that had been demonstrated before?

[joseph m. hahnl]

Take that:smash:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd81TUAhSRA&feature=related

[justleft]

Always knew it was the water cartel !

[DonziJon]

Remember the "Hindenburg"? I think that had something to do with Hydrogen............didn't it? Younger folks may have to Google it. :bonk: John

"Oh..The Humanities". :)

[smoothie]

Its a start...Hydrogen generation system installed in California.
http://biz.yahoo.com/iw/080626/0410801.html

[ChromeGorilla]

Remember the "Hindenburg"? I think that had something to do with Hydrogen............didn't it? Younger folks may have to Google it. :bonk: John
"Oh..The Humanities". :)

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25177&d=1163479341