Corporate welfare...

[gcarter]

I was watching a program last night that showed how some companies really STREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETCH the "spirit" of regulations designed to "encourage" certain activities. The example presented was about subsidies given for producing bio-Diesel. Folks import a shipload of foreign sourced bio-Diesel (from Asia), bring it into an American port where it's diluted w/US petroleum sourced Diesel, maybe as little as 5%, and the subsidy is "earned". Then the shipload of fuel is sent to Europe to be sold at a higher price than here??????? This practice is apparently called "Splash and Dash".
Anyway, last year $600,000,000.00 in subsidies were payed to companies that do this. I don't think this is right, because it defeats the designed "spirit" of the regulation and costs the US taxpayers $600,000,000.00. In all likelyhood, something will be done about this soon.
But here's my point; There are tax incentives for all sorts of activities, maybe most for business, but a lot for individuals too. For instance, early this year I replaced my 14 year old central air-conditioner. The old original AC unit had a SEER rating of 8, which was sort of normal for the time (1994). My new one is REALLY top of the line and has a SEER of 18.6 and is supposed to save me maybe 40% on my energy bill (anyone that's been to my house knows I love my AC!).
While compiling data on lasts years taxes, I noticed there was a tax credit for buying a more efficient AC or water heater, etc, etc. What I'd like to know from you guys is, is it wrong for companies operating in a way that benifits them tax wise by utilizing incentives put into law by Congress? Is it different for individuals?
If it's wrong for companies to do it, is it wrong for me to take my tax credit next year for installing the new AC?

This might make an interesting poll, but I wouldn't even begin to know how to formulate the questions.

[f_inscreenname]

After years of trying to live the moral high ground I now take what I can get. You are not going to change anything by not taking the tax cut. For that matter I would call your electric company and see if you can get a kick back from them also.
It's sick what companies get away with. Tax breaks for oil companies and for what? To explore new energy. Why would they ever want to find a new energy source when they sell oil! At the same time I own oil stocks and think that a win fall tax is insane also. Nobody gave a flying fart when oil was at $15.00 a barrel. The profit margins have stayed the same its because oil has gone up so much and with that so have their profits. Go figure.

[DonziJon]

During the recent Annual Spring Interogation of oil company execs, Rep. Maxine Waters (D) California, suggested that the oil companys better tow the line quick, or "We" (Congress) will take over control of your companys. She used the word "Socialize" to describe what would happen. :nilly: She misconscrewed the word with Nationalize. John

[gcarter]

Here's another example;
Do they (Ford) have a case?

Ford calls for US help on electric cars
By John Reed in London

Published: June 12 2008 19:33 | Last updated: June 12 2008 19:33

Ford Motor has joined General Motors in calling for direct US government intervention to boost the market for plug-in electric vehicles, which Detroit’s carmakers fear could become dominated by Asian manufacturers.

Mark Fields, head of Ford’s Americas business, said that government should be a “key partner in promoting American manufacturing” of plug-in cars and the lithium-ion batteries that power them through tax incentives, research subsidies and other measures.

“A business case will not evolve, in the near term, without support from Washington,” Mr Fields said on Wednesday in a speech at Washington DC.

GM, Toyota, and Renault-Nissan plan to launch plug-in cars by 2010 but Ford has not set a target for bringing one to market.

It is road-testing plug-in hybrid versions of its Escape sport utility vehicle and working with utility company Southern California Edison on charging infrastructure for cars.

Plug-in hybrid and electric cars are moving up global carmakers’ agendas rapidly as petrol prices soar and sales of large and inefficient vehicles plummet.

Both GM and Ford are cutting jobs and production capacity of SUVs and trucks and shifting more resources into fuel-efficient cars.

Tax breaks for conventional hybrid cars currently on the road, like Toyota’s market-leading Prius model, helped to promote their adoption in the US.

GM is pressing Congress to offer tax incentives for extended-range electric vehicles to help defray the cost to consumers of the Volt and also wants more government support for battery development.

Carmakers worry that US consumers, already stretched by high petrol prices and a slower economy, will be reluctant to pay the higher sticker prices needed to recoup plug-in cars’ development costs and new components.

Japanese government support of R&D for current-generation hybrids has become a sore point for America’s struggling domestic carmakers after seeing Toyota capture most of the global market, led by the Prius.

The governments of China, South Korea and India are also funding R&D on technology for plug-in hybrid and electric cars, which will have longer electric-only driving ranges than current hybrids.

Development of advanced lithium-ion batteries, due to become a core automotive technology, is thus far taking place primarily in Asia, although there are some American producers.

“For those looking to plug-ins to answer our energy security concerns, we must ensure a domestic battery supply,” Mr Fields said. “Moving from imported oil to imported batteries clearly wouldn’t address this growing concern.”

Government should “aggressively advance” R&D and commmercialisation of lithium-ion batteries through direct funding for technology and retooling of facilities to produce electric vehicles, he said.

Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2008

[Cuda]

Where's my corportate welfare?

[DonziJon]

Picture the rear quarter of the 2010 22' Classic. "DONZI: I am Electric". :propeller: John

[Tony]

Years ago I read a fascinating article about coal companies using a creative method to "earn" billions of dollars of tax credits offered to companies that discover alternative energy sources. It went like this:

As the coal is mined, it is routed through a massive mobile plant, where it is ever so lightly sprayed with kerosene, thereby fractionally altering its molecular makeup, and thereby qualifying it as a form alternative energy!

For any regulation or program our government thinks of, however well-intended, the big corporations have the best lawyers and engineers poring over the paperwork to find the loopholes. Locating corporate headquarters overseas is another prime example.

A while back I was lamenting the field of presidential candidates, of both parties, wondering how come we don't have candidates that are brilliant thinkers, polished public speakers, charismatic statesmen, and dedicated public servants. "Where are our best people?", I asked a buddy of mine. He gave me a short but thought-provoking reply; "They are all CEO's".

:beer:

[Tony]

George, I just re-read my post and realized it did not address your original question. Yes...take the credits that are offered. I replaced windows and was rewarded with a slight tax credit.

I consider myself middle class, and dislike taxes as much as most. But, I am dismayed when I read about preferential treatment of the mega-corporations who can afford lobbyists fighting (and paying!) for that special treatment.

:beer: