I am about ready to pull the plug....

[Donziweasel]

Got some info from Teton Co on our permits for the Lazy P Ranch. They want a $31,000.00 affordable housing fee! Jackson, like many small western towns (Sun Valley, Steamboat, Aspen, etc...), has a serious employee housing problem. The millionaires and billionaires have bought up all the land and our work force has no housing it can afford. I know this first hand as staffing is getting harder and harder at Alltrans.

The thing is that I am not a millionaire building a vacation home. I am trying to build a home to raise a family in JH that is just within my budget. Now, I have spent over $30,000.00 and haven't even broke ground yet. How many more fees and overruns am I going to face when we do break ground? I simply can not afford anymore, and for that matter, can't afford the ones I have incurred so far.

Boo Boo and I talked for a long time last night. We did not find an answer, but are seriously considering pulling the plug on the project. Either that, or I am going to have to axe the shop, my sanctuary, to make ends meet. I am really depressed and pissed over all of it. If I am this aggravated now, how much more pissed am I going to get during the construction phase? Not only that, we were suppossed to break ground in April, but the planning department keeps coming back with stipulations for our permits, such as, they first said our septic system would not need to be engineered, now they decided it has to. Same with erosion control. And Bears. what the ****?

Many of you know I can be a hot head (gotten me into trouble more than once on these boards). I never back away from a fight when I think I am right. This is a fight I can not win. Hell, it is a fight I can't even fight. If I piss them off, they can shelve my permits for months, if not years. I did not get to own the largest transportation company in the state by being complacent. I fought and suffered for years to get where I am. I am not use to the feeling of not having any recourse but to simply go along with the system. Man, it is frustrating. I had always heard Teton Co. was a nightmare to deal with, but never knew it would be this bad.

One last thing, I know that there are a hell of a lot of houses in the $10,000,000.00 to $20,000,000.00 range being built, plus commercial property being devloped. The affordable housing costs for these properties could be over 100,000.00. Where the **** is all the affordable housing? I haven't seen **** being built. I don't know what Teton Co. is doing with the money they are generating, and it is a hell of a lot of money. I do know they aren't building affordable housing with it.

Got to make up my mind today on whether to continue.....

[vonkamp]

WOW, that hurts. I don't know what I would do if I was in your shoes. Part of me would be to tell them to pack sand, sell everything and get the hell out of JH. On the other hand, so much time & $$ been spent already...
Sounds like you've been good for Jackson Hole, I guess the question is has JH been good to you to the tune of a 31k fee...

[BUIZILLA]

how do they arrive at this assessment fee amount?

[Donziweasel]

Barry, Teton Co. is not being good to me at all. BTW, your boat looks like you are making some nice progress.

Buiz- some complicated formula based on the number of bedrooms x percentage x base fee of $2,300 per affordable housing applicant x blah blah blah.

[Carl C]

Good thing the cuss filter is working. How about scaling back the whole project and then adding on and adding the shop later?

[Donziweasel]

Thought about that, but the shop is the only part of the project that I have any input in. Since I am paying for everything, taking away my shop just kills me. It was supposed to be my sanctuary. I still have Alltrans, Inc., but it isn't the same. I have to get a hold of my contractor. He listed the house as 4 bedrooms, instead of three. He listed the bonus room above the garage as a fourth bedroom, which it is not. If I can get the application to say 3 bedrooms, then it will save $8,000.00 off that $31,000.00.

[chappy]

If that's the case, since there's just two of you, sounds like one of the other bedrooms could be an office or den..............:wink:

[Rootsy]

Barry, Teton Co. is not being good to me at all. BTW, your boat looks like you are making some nice progress.
Buiz- some complicated formula based on the number of bedrooms x percentage x base fee of $2,300 per affordable housing applicant x blah blah blah.

Maybe time to seek legal counsel?

[gold-n-rod]

Maybe time to seek legal counsel?

Sure, pay someone $25K to save $25K. :smash::smash::smash:

[Donziweasel]

Teton Co. just called and adjusted the application to 3 bedrooms. Now the bill is $23,330.00. Still pissed.

[Carl C]

If that's the case, since there's just two of you, sounds like one of the other bedrooms could be an office or den..............:wink: Yes sir! My second bedroom is now my workroom for preparing merchandise for sale and my third bedroom is currently my home office where I am sitting right now. So at present I have a one bedroom house:wink:. I can relate to the shop. I have a 2 1/2 car attached garage and a 2 car detached and wouldn't/couldn't get by without both.

[handfulz28]

You need to become better friends with the county manager, head of planning & zoning, and probably even the county commissioners (and/or their top staff). For just about every P&Z ordinance, there's the possibility for a variance. It might have to go so far as a vote by the county commissioners. Don't hate the player, hate the game-but you might be better off sending boo boo as the face of your effort.

I don't know the est cost of your project, so it depends on what % this impact fee is as to how willing people will be to listen. But gentle persuasion based on the fact you are a local employer, permanent resident, positive contributer to the local community, everything you can possibly come up with. Get the neighbors involved; the decent ones, not the crazies next door. :bonk: Is there a development restriction on the land? Boy wouldn't it be hypocritical for a county to impose an impact fee on land that's zoned for only 1 house per 5 acres for example? But don't lead with that one; keep that in your back pocket.

Going Rambo on them may or may not get you anywhere. You can drag the accounting and success of this impact fee into the press and make them look bad, but it won't guarantee you get a discount. The other thing you could do is get yourself appointed or actually run for office.

What about the ol' switcharoo? Is the impact fee only on ground-breaking, or additions down the road? Perhaps there's a loophole that will let you pay fees on a cozy little place...that you just decide to expand right after you get your certficate of occupancy.

[Marlin275]

Teton Co. just called and adjusted the application to 3 bedrooms. Now the bill is $23,330.00. Still pissed.

Now you can go ahead with your project.
Hell $23,330. is what you pay in real estate taxes every year here.

[Tony]

You need to become better friends with the county manager, head of planning & zoning, and probably even the county commissioners (and/or their top staff). For just about every P&Z ordinance, there's the possibility for a variance. It might have to go so far as a vote by the county commissioners. Don't hate the player, hate the game-but you might be better off sending boo boo as the face of your effort.

I don't know the est cost of your project, so it depends on what % this impact fee is as to how willing people will be to listen. But gentle persuasion based on the fact you are a local employer, permanent resident, positive contributer to the local community, everything you can possibly come up with. Get the neighbors involved; the decent ones, not the crazies next door. :bonk: Is there a development restriction on the land? Boy wouldn't it be hypocritical for a county to impose an impact fee on land that's zoned for only 1 house per 5 acres for example? But don't lead with that one; keep that in your back pocket.

Going Rambo on them may or may not get you anywhere. You can drag the accounting and success of this impact fee into the press and make them look bad, but it won't guarantee you get a discount. The other thing you could do is get yourself appointed or actually run for office.

What about the ol' switcharoo? Is the impact fee only on ground-breaking, or additions down the road? Perhaps there's a loophole that will let you pay fees on a cozy little place...that you just decide to expand right after you get your certficate of occupancy.

Intelligent, straight forward, and on topic...another reason this board is 'da best.
handfulz, this is a great example of a reply worthy of rep points...wait, where the h*ll are the rep points?!

:beer:

[Donziweasel]

Teton Co. is not to be trifled with. They have become very hard to deal with in the last few years. Going one ft over your permitted size can cost you 100,000.00's of dollars. Seen it happen. I know the people involved and am well liked by them, but when it comes to building here, no one can get around anything, no matter who or what you know.

I am too good a freinds with most of the planners and engineers to go Rambo on them. I just have to suck it up.

Property taxes are realatively cheap here. My last house sold for 650,000.00. Annual taxes were 1,700.00.

Thanks everyone for the advice. Tony, I agree, nice answer. I think I have no recourse but to jump through the hoops and do what they want. This area, being 5 miles from Grand Teton National Park and close to Yellowstone creates some unique planning issues. I guess, in a very begrudingly way, it is good for the preservation of the area. Still not sure what to do. I just hate axing the shop, it was the only thing in the project that excited me. Boo Boo designed the house, her dad the guest house and the shop was all mine. I would almost rather shelve the whole damn thing than lose my shop. Really depressed, wish I was at AOTH this weekend. :hangum:

[chappy]

Intelligent, straight forward, and on topic...another reason this board is 'da best.
handfulz, this is a great example of a reply worthy of rep points...wait, where the h*ll are the rep points?!

:beer:

+1, Dead on accurate Tony.

[handfulz28]

Awww...you guys are almost making me blush. :tongue: I have to admit I've had an unfair advantage-I served four years as a city commissioner down here in south Florida. F-ing code enforcement tried busting my balls for swapping motors in my road race car...in my drive way. So I put up a 10x20 tent...got a written warning for that puppy. So when I found out the city was pissing away money and totally mis-managing their finances, I decided to run for office. At 28yrs old against 5 other people I ended up with the most votes. I tried for 4 years to fire that code b!tch, never could get it done. But I never had a problem after that. :propeller:

Good luck with your efforts Weaze. What's the rule on commercial development in your area? What's the implication of having your business build a shop?

[yeller]

handfulz28 mentioned what I was thinking. Can you build a small shop, but design it for easy future expansion or will you still have to pay when you expand?

[Donziweasel]

The business is finaincially tied to me, so whether it pays for it or me, it still comes out of my pocket.

I would rather shelve the shop than build a small one that I wouldn't be happy with. I always seem to have multiple projects going and don't want to go back later on and have to change it. I still have Alltrans, Inc., which as far as shops goes, would make some people drool. I have about every piece of equipment I will ever need there, BUT when I am there, I am still at work, even if I am working on my own project. That is a huge drawback, plus, no one ever leaves me alone there. Drivers, office staff, mechanics, always seems to be something I have to take care of.

I got the bank to cover the extra expeditures, and chewed out my contractor. I think I am going ahead with everything for now. I am already in pretty deep. Hopefully things will start to go a little better. Still wish I was at AOTH!

[boxy]

DW, I hope everything works itself out, I'm sure it will.

On a somewhat related topic, a Realtor I know in SoFla sent me a listing today in your area. A ranch called "The End"? I'll see if I can post, or PM you the sheet.