help with my new to me sweet 16

[smallblockford]

guys i just bought a sweet 16 1995 with the l shaped seating and bucket drivers seat missing uphulstry, were do i go.

also no moter i am shoe horning a 350 crate in her, i measure that it will just make it.

any suggestions would be greatly appreciated i am also adding thru hulls and am lookin for nice tips like corsas.

the uphulstry is what i really need some help with were do i start

thanx

[zedohsix]

I just got a 16 last November, has a 350 transplanted in it, I'm not mechanicaly inclined bu if you need photos etc let me know,
I want to go to thru hulls what are you going to use?
:canada:

[Donziweasel]

I went through some of what you are going through. Got mine and it did not perform right, so I re-did the top end. As for the engine, any crate 350 should fit, but it is tight. Make sure exhaust manifolds are off and turn the engine sideways to get it in the engine compartment, then you can turn it foward. Get a drive alignment tool, they are pretty cheap and every spring check the alignment.

I did not really like the corsa look. These are the Livorsi tips, which I really like. Internal flapper. -

http://www.livorsi.com/catalog/flaps.htm

The three bolt holes will need to be a little larger, but they will fit in the corsa holes.

As for interior, grab your check book cause it ain't cheap. There are members here better suited to tell you about who to use as I have never had to replace mine.

What happened to this poor boat in the last 12 years? No motor, interior a mess. Does it have a drive? Tabs? Got pics? Where did you get the crate? Hp and setup?

[Sam]

Try Bob at biltriteuph@aol.com, he should have all the patterns. Just as an FYI he is the go to guy for a lot of the members here who have needed seats. I have an extra Alpha Gen II if you need a drive. The 350 will fit, you just have to rotate here 180 degrees then drop her down then back 180 :doh: works like a charm.

[MOP]

Leave all the accessories, exhaust and circ pump off, lower it down side ways spin it once down in the hole. Then have fun skinning your knuckles getting everything back on the engine, I still bear a few scars from my 16, but no regrets was a great little boat!

Phil

[smallblockford]

i have a 250 hp crate moter, 8 to 1 compression, or i have one readdy to build with 10.5 to one compression prob. put out 350hp. what do you guys think how fast would i look at with a 250. or should i build one.

i will post pics later, i have pics i took of hear and i am starting work on it tonight.

[kd5cue]

i have a 250 hp crate moter, 8 to 1 compression, or i have one readdy to build with 10.5 to one compression prob. put out 350hp. what do you guys think how fast would i look at with a 250. or should i build one.

i will post pics later, i have pics i took of hear and i am starting work on it tonight.55-57mph

[smallblockford]

55-57mph
really dam that answers that i am going with the 350 hp i cant beleive it., were does the hull get out of control or can it handle power, i have an stv that i want to get rid of before i go over what can i do with this deep hull before she hooks and digs on me.

[smallblockford]

i have pics i need to load of before i just came in and spent a lot of time buffing and wet sanding, i havnt been this happy with a boat in a long time. i just need some info to figure out were i need to go as far as horsepower and performace goes

[Donziweasel]

350 horse 350 cid will push it over 60.

[smallblockford]

how is it that i have a 230zt checkmate with a 350 sitting here that is way wider and longer and it will run 67mph plus. but you guys are telling me that the 16 cant take her with more hp. were does the short hull get un controlible does any one know.

[kd5cue]

350 horse 350 cid will push it over 60.350 hp make real close to 65mph,,but have to reprop

[MOP]

It is a good idea not to go to high with compression you never know when you might get a load of poor fuel. A 16 can get to be a hand full in the 60's, it can be a real chine walker. You will get some of the best info on fast 16's from Rootsey, had one of the quicker ones it had a worked 350 and a CLE gear case.

[smallblockford]

i know i am going to have to cone the drive, i just cant believe that she wont push past mid 60s. just from workin on other boats i was hopin to put the horsepower to her cone the drive and start with a 25 pitch witch would have been the right prop for 75 76 mph on a 1.5 ratio.

[glashole]

have you driven the 16 at all yet?

drive all of them in a good chop :smash:

then come back and say which one you liked the best

deal with the fact that they are 60-65 mph boats and have fun running with the big dogs in a small boat at that speed in any conditions

they will handle fine with some practice up to those speeds

as for the interior check with the sponsors of this site in the headliners, I have not heard anything bad about them

have fun :)

remember that faster is never fast enough

Shea

[smallblockford]

no i havent drove a 16 bought the boat no drive or moter, have driven many boats currently own and want rid of a stv pro comp that runs 110 on gps spins a labed 32 pitch, i have built many checkmates and bajas, i see the hull is a 24 and expected it to do well underchop and chim walk going fast but i just cant believe that with that much horsepower it would only turn those numbers i have seen 26 ft boats turn mid 60s with that type of horse power i had heard of one of the 16s run 72 mph but didnt here about what was under the hatch, I have been working on boats for 15 plus yrs certified merc, mercruiser. but this is my first project boat for my self finallly gonna work on a boat that is mine from top to bottom.

[glashole]

SBF

you are going to like this boat
it is possible to get those speeds out of it with a built up 350

there are alot of people on this board that can help you out or do a search and starting reading

keep in mind with this weekend being the AOTH there won't be alot of people on the site from today until next week that can answer all of your questions

have a good one and get some pictures uploaded :)

Shea

[Donziweasel]

Four things- 1. The 16 has been around since 1964. The originals only ran in the 40's. The performance we are seeing out of these boats now (some running over 80) were never seen by the first design. 2. The feeling of speed is more prevalent in the 16 than other boats. Probably because you sit on the boat more than in it. I have had many boats that run in the 50's, but non felt as fast as the 16 in the same speed range. 3. The 18 seems to go faster than the 16 with the same setup (motor, drive, etc...) not sure why, some other members can tell you. Some say it has to do with the "hook" built into the 16. 4. If you are planning on running over 55, get some tabs if you don't already have them. The 16 can chine walk pretty bad above 55 and a little tab will settle it down. They have gone much faster without tabs, but for safety, something to consider. If you plan on running in the high 60's or 70's, think about external steering. Good luck and keep us posted on the project!

BTW, you might want to contact Rootsy if you are planning on running really fast. He pushed one into the 80's. He might be able to give you some guidance or at least what to expect at those speeds out of the 16.

[smallblockford]

some pics before i get started
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[smallblockford]

i have already buffed the hole boat out i am going to take another pass at her tonight and the gel came back very good.

how do i get ahold of rootsy it sounds like i need to listen to some of his experences with the 16.

[Sam]

The fact of the mater is that they are not efficient boats. You need lots of HP/ torque to make them go fast. They are classically designed and that's what most people like about them. My 16 runs in the low 70's and can be a hand full if you don't keep your eye on the ball. With a stock Alpha and 350 hp you should see 65ish. You will need to learn to drive through the chine walking and believe me it will happen. Prop choice will be the biggest asset in your speed and handling of the boat. It's my guess that you would do well with a 22" Turbo or something close. That should put you in a fast but safe mode as it relates to keeping your motor in one piece :eek!:. After testing many props the Turbo gave me the best of all worlds. Give me a shout if you have any questions.
Good Luck

[Donziweasel]

Just look under members and send him a private message. He is around sometimes. Sounds like Sam can give you some good advice as well. Rootsy did it simply because they said it couldn't be done, and he proved them wrong. Good guy, an engineer and spent some time helping me with my 16 setup last summer.

[kd5cue]

get wallet out if want to go fast in 16

[smallblockford]

decided to go with aluminum exhaust manifolds instead of cast and aluminum heads also. i figure i know i will be lighter than a 4.3 that away. i will post pics of the project as i go.

wallet is out and i got a benzo torch with propane under it to light.

anyone know a phone number for bilt right uph. i emailed him but no reply.

speed wise i am not saying i will run the boat that fast all the time but if this 26 nordic with a 496ho 425 hp pulls up i want to be able to drop the hammer. i am building the boat and will appreciate all the work and time i am going to put into her but i want to build the best 16ft boat i can in my lake. that is my goal

[kd5cue]

if i had to do it over again,i would build a 383ci

[Donziweasel]

Could try and find a 377 scorpion.

[MOP]

One of Scots 383 400HP + Blackhawk drive no telling how fast but it would turn out to be one of the fastest ever put together with far superior handling.

[joseph m. hahnl]

I believe this is Rootsy 16




http:www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSxFF9CEApY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSxFF9CEApY)

[smallblockford]

I believe this is Rootsy 16




http:www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSxFF9CEApY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSxFF9CEApY)

thank you for the link, got done with the buffing today, and am going to take the boat back to my work and start assembling a moter, really nead to get ahold of uphulstry, you guys are not going to believe me but i am going to have her done and done right in 30 days and i will post pics. that is if the wallet doesnt spontainisly combust.

[smallblockford]

has any one tried silent choice the reason i ask is there enough room to have the merc exhaust horns in and a 350 turned around. debating just having thru hulls or trying to do silent choice so the 5 o dont get pissed all the time

[MOP]

The distance needed for silent choice is the same on all models, what determines the use is the length of the riser. Stock an even some headers work just fine, some headers risers are to long ruling out there use. There are alternatives with external mufflers like a few of us use.

Phil

[smallblockford]

i was asking cuz i wasnt sure if a 16 would acomodate the y pipe to turn the 350 with the housing on the back of the fly wheel with the two rear mounts on the mercruiser if it does cool i know it will make it tighter to turn the moter the last 90 degrees but that makes a nice setup

[samjannarone]

smallblock,

nice looking 16. Sounds like you have the Donzi bug. I joined last summer, there are a great bunch of guys on this site, they know everything about these boats. There is tons of good info if you search the whole site. Also,
Pack in the power, you won't be sorry. My 18 is great for the occasional drag race.....

[kd5cue]

yeh installed silent choice in my 16,,im currently installing edlebrock heads ,,need finsh up soon

[smallblockford]

thanx you 2 thats what i am talkin about nice boats and lots of fun.
yep i got the bug

[smokediver]

the engine needs to be facing port and then lowered and rotated around ... going to a bravo coupler gives you an extra inch of clearance .. trust me ... it helps !:bonk:

[Rootsy]

so does being able to fit into very small places... :smash:

[smallblockford]

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got some buffing done got her back to the shop got some parts still trying to get more peices, got gil headers on the way gotta decide on a cam i have the specs for a merc high performance 377 in my hand, goofy duration but that is how they enginear boat moters to make torque, hoping to figure out what i am going to do for aluminum heads will have more pics pistons are 1/4 inch dome will give me 11.93 comp at 64cc heads if i decide to go that low on a head, hope to push 400 plus to here i dont see why not since merc scorpian high po did it with 9.0 to 1 compression. havin fun know got some pressure though i want to get her done before my best freind from the army gets home in a month.

[MOP]

IMO you would be a lot better off with less compression, 11.93 is high in a boat. 72cc heads are far safer, 10.00 maybe 10.5 is th max I would run in a boat. I went even more conservative 9.125 on my 383, catch a bad load of gas and you have grenade! Mr.X may still have a Scorpion cam, try sending him a PM.

Phil

[younger]

Here is what i have done with my 16 sbc transplant. Stock bore 350 with edelbrock rpm heads and rpm air gap intake. Opening the valves is a xm270h cam with crane roller rockers. I have run another cam, it was a little more radical, but it had poor lower rpm manners. The drive is alpha gen II 1.32 ratio mounted as high as I could without any hatch mods. One recommendation is to mill a small slot in the top of the bellhousing with a dab of white paint on the flywheel @ tdc to easily time the motor, due to the limited space in front of the motor. I run glm aluminum exhaust manifolds. All the aluminum on top of the motor to save some lbs. As for performance bests it has run 72 mph @5600 turning a 19" laser II. I have run many props with this being my best combo, for econo runs I run a 22" five blade not sure of the brand but it is a small gear case outboard prop. The handling is another issue I have found in my case that the boat tends to get silly @ 63-66mph but some more trim up it flattens out, giver more gas click the trim down a few and away you go! If I would do it again I would build a large cube sbc and a short drive. I hope this info can help. Have fun and good luck.

[smallblockford]

Here is what i have done with my 16 sbc transplant. Stock bore 350 with edelbrock rpm heads and rpm air gap intake. Opening the valves is a xm270h cam with crane roller rockers. I have run another cam, it was a little more radical, but it had poor lower rpm manners. The drive is alpha gen II 1.32 ratio mounted as high as I could without any hatch mods. One recommendation is to mill a small slot in the top of the bellhousing with a dab of white paint on the flywheel @ tdc to easily time the motor, due to the limited space in front of the motor. I run glm aluminum exhaust manifolds. All the aluminum on top of the motor to save some lbs. As for performance bests it has run 72 mph @5600 turning a 19" laser II. I have run many props with this being my best combo, for econo runs I run a 22" five blade not sure of the brand but it is a small gear case outboard prop. The handling is another issue I have found in my case that the boat tends to get silly @ 63-66mph but some more trim up it flattens out, giver more gas click the trim down a few and away you go! If I would do it again I would build a large cube sbc and a short drive. I hope this info can help. Have fun and good luck.

really appreciated the info, i got edelbrock alum heads, gil aluminum headers, 1.50 drive it is going to be interesting , trying to nut up on hydroulic stearing single cyl. and mini k tabes sold by eddie marine,

younger what is the lift on the came you ran

[smallblockford]

trying to nut up on hydroulic stearing single cyl. and mini k tabes sold by eddie marine any one got any of this stuff complete i figure new it is about another 4800$

[younger]

The cam I was originally running was 108 degree loc , 232degrees intake @ .050" and 236 on the exhaust. I was running 1.6 roller rockers on both intake and exhaust valves with a total lift of .512".

[smallblockford]

gonna get you guys some more pics progress is going on but i wish i could move faster roller cam on a first gen block slowed me down a little got my headers and ordered singl ram hydraulic stearing.

[Sam]

What steering system did you go with ?

[smallblockford]

went with an imco single cyl. just to stiffen it up a little, waiting on it to come via ups.

i have gill small block headers that are cooled but are considered dry for more performance, i am not sure if i can make them work but they are here and they are serious.

i will get some pics and post them soon as the stearing kit comes in.

i am also ordering a set of billet mini k planes from eddie marine i hope they will fusion coat them teal to match the stripe on the boat i just need a week or to to let my wallet catch up

have been working on the moter it has been fun converting it from a hydraulic moter first generation block was 87 88 right were there was a slight change, required a little more mock up.

[smallblockford]

steering isnt in yet but i have the moter assembled, mocked up the headers here are the pics
36414

36415

36416

36417
i want 80 mph maybe a little more

[smallblockford]

i am going to get pics of the uphulstry i am making for her. bought the foam pre cut and am making my own seats. half way done it is taking a little longer than i thought got hung up with the 4th of july and work.

[smallblockford]

uphulstry pics
it has been fun building this boat from the ground up i am making everything for this boat in house at my familys marina. i am making the seats building the moter, having a lot of fun with this little boat.
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37225

[smallblockford]

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[smallblockford]

we ran the moter today on the hoist it has alot of power. i am glad i have a spair alpha gen 2 for this boat when you hit the trottle it has some torque. the roller cam i picked out seems to be good will find out forsure under a load on the water.

just got the moter in today i have pics and will load them later tonight, and you guys said that was hard. it isnt that bad as far as boats go i have seen tighter specially when i was working on bajas, big blocks were always stuffed in. i also got pics of the imco stearing and the eddie marine k tabs i have to put on.

[mike o]

great thread, and wow.... your marching on this project

[smallblockford]

well here is pics of the moter in i still have to cut the hulls for the offshore headers i have to go through the back. i cant wait, here are pics of the eddie marine 17 inch billet tabs i bought they have individual pumps for each tab, and then there is a pick of my drive shower and hydraulic stearing.
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37257

[smallblockford]

oh and the 3 blade is a hydromotive i had tricked out a while ago i hope i can turn it it is 26 pitch and i am building the 1.5 drive.

like i said i want 80 plus when i get her done i gotta find some one as cazy as me to hold the camera and shoot the gps and what not.

lol

[Donziweasel]

Your first post was 5-13 and you had just gotten the rather beat up boat. Two months later, I mean, come on now, wow! I am impressed. Been following a lot of major and minor restos over the last couple of years and you are definetly kicking ass. When you are finished, want to come finish the Bronco? Bet you could have it done in two weeks!:)

[The Hedgehog]

Very nice.

You really have your game face on! That boat will be a real hoot!

[smallblockford]

thanx guys

i have been at my familys marina since i was 7, i am 31. i have loved boats since i can remeber. and there is a reason why i have always wanted a 16. but i am a certified merc mechanic i have all the tools at my reach my father rebuilds his classic cars know and is a perfectionist and helped me with the moter. I love to learn every thing i can as fare as work goes never been into reading about or college just love to build stuff.

[smallblockford]

know the first 16 i ever saw i was at the dealer show in chicago, mom and dad were kicking back in dicks last resort on the river there and i think i was about 12 or 13, and a 16 came up it was red and my dad started telling me how nice a boat and how small with a small block in it and i just fell in love with the boat. next thing you know yrs later i am looking around for a project and i always wanted one, these boats are dry here were i am at in akron ohio i mean i have one guy who i winterize his 18 classic and it just came around last yr. not a one on my lake.

[smallblockford]

got the imco steering and the k tabs mocked up today hopefully i can take some pics it is sick looking guys the k tabs come down to the cavitation plate. that isnt what they are there for i just want to walk the boat on them at zero tab and all but man this is going to be fun.

[cutwater]

Good stuff. I'm most impressed that even with all this other stuff you're doing, you managed to do your own interior! That's going all out!

[smallblockford]

got the tabs on and bled them switches arent in yet i am thinking about stainless steal momentary cole hershey switches right in front of the controls at throttle full to 3/4 i could easily get trim tab switches from a bennett style set up. guys need some feed back on what others have done on this one, for it i will tell you that the hole i cut in the donzis back seat is a great place to time the moter and put an access plate in behind the back seat by the power steering pump, i think i posted it but here it is37372nice thing is if it is really sunny and you cant see leave the hatche closed and you can see the timing marks great with the strobe of the timing light. also got the stearing mocked up just have to hook the pump up and test it

this is going to be the baddest little boat on this lake! hopefully all goes as planed :hangum:

[smallblockford]

i just saw an 18 that had a lifted up style hatch any one know where these come from or who made them

really gives you extra room and looks more like a stock hatch than some of the other mods i have seen

[smallblockford]

latest pics
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any one know about this hatch i saw on a boat on ebay.

[smallblockford]

had her in the water boat sits nice and level moter made great horsepower and planed off with a 26 like it was nothing

until the ignition cuts out at about 3700rpm i thought it was the tach cuz it wasnt reading right so i chopped the wires to make sure it wasnt shorted. didnt do it

boat handles great at the slow speed of 50 or so that i had her at. hydraulic stearing is awsome on her

so i went back and have changed the coil it had a small dent in it and looked like it might be arching over to the post, and i also changed the sensor in the distributer.

the moter has so much torque, even the other mechanic at the marina i am at couldnt believe it but it is a little loud on the lake with the offshore gills i may have to put a silencer of sort in her.

[mike o]

Hi, got youtube capabilitys. Id love to see-hear this thing.........

[cutwater]

That was the quickest full-facelift of a boat ever in this thread... Good luck getting the problem sorted out.

[The Hedgehog]

Nice.

You are moving on that project. I bet it sounds great!

[smallblockford]

pulled the plug wires and the cap and roters replaced em, they had been sitting around my shop for yrs although hardly used i had a problem to work out. took the monster holley off and put the weber on.

took a spin 26 pitch prop 1.50 ratio and spun 5000 rpms first try took a little bit of technice to get by the roll but i got those numbers and it feels like mid 70s.

i am going to get the hand held gps out and the video cam

i have never posted on you tube but i will try here shortly probably begining of the week cuz i this is going to be reall good

i am going to get this thing to touch 80 i swear it. oh and i think i got it past the walkin, i just had to runn it harder and get the boat more out of the water so it doesnt right on the hook at the last 2 ft but instead on the drive and tabs.

[smallblockford]

i hope to break her in and have a little more.

[The Hedgehog]

80,80,80....in a 16. You can get there. That is moving. You are the man:pimp:

Keep us posted.

[smallblockford]

well got some ims from you guys asking i just havnt had the time been working on everyone elses boat but mine. hope to get a video to you guys before the yr ends. also there were a lot of park rangers and cops in my lake and i know they dont like my noise so i had to kinda cool it down with the offshore headers since they are dry and sound really good

thanx for the support

[smallblockford]

check out the pic the water isnt a bilge pump that is were the coolant comes out not the exhaust have one on each side offshore headers baby38429

[The Hedgehog]

Cool, thanks for update. I bet it sounds great.

[Donziweasel]

The raised middle portion of the hatch on an 18 is stock.

What are you running for a drive, I forgot? That is probably where you will make up the most speed now. When Rootsy went over 80, he was running a SS.

Looks great!:)

[cutwater]

If I remember correctly, you were running a cleaver prop? Talk to Grizz, he might be able to set you up with something to get you a few extra mph.

[kramsay1234]

Great thread. Now it needs to continue with a GPS reading and a video post on youtube. Boat looks awesome.

[smallblockford]

well i have been doing some testing and with props not to mention i had a set back trying to quite the gil dry exhaust it was load lets put it this way it shakes windows on some peoples houses and even made blinds move so i had to adapt a removable mufflers system which is now on the boat. put a bravo 4 blade 26 on and was able to fly the boat with 2 people, but with me it really gunal rails(it isnt chime walking) i should of took pics i beet the crap out of my self my elbows slammed down on the side throttleing the boat was pretty swallen you guys would have got a laugh out of that any ways i was able to balance it on this 4 blade rpm was a little low, but the weirdest feeling is how much transom lift. way to much never felt a boat that about 35 mph you nail it and the back end raises and the nose of the boat is down giving the boat a bad roll side to side then trim it a little and you can fly it out but i know i am loosing way to much getting all that stern lift. I have had it in the low 70s on gps with little control. so for 3 months i have been searching for an alpha ss. I found one last night. know i just have to rebuild the ss and send it to powder coat and maybe get you guys some pics then when the boat is running proper get you guys some video

[smallblockford]

just wanted to fill you guys in on some of the progress.

cant wait to drive this beast with a shorter drive. i havent seen an ss in a long time worked on one yrs ago on a velocity that came in. this thing is like gold to me right know. found it locally in ohio. i am going to also put all new gears hd and seals in it before it goes in the lake which meens i am going to have to do some mild breakin.

what have some of you guys seen as far as drivability and speed on 16s compared to stock alphas.

has anyone noticed terible transom lift like i did.

i know that i am going to be proping it also.

[Just Say N20]

I believe Sweet Cheekz is running 75 mph with an SS (prop from BigGrizz) and around 450 dyno hp in his AWESOME 16.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c111/streb2005/SweetCheekzTransomS.jpg

[Rootsy]

I've been just a tick over 81 mph in a 16 with an SS... You only pucker a little bit... Hydromotive Quad IV O/T


http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/jaroot13/SteeringAssy6.jpg

[smallblockford]

rootsy the ss has to help a ton. you should have seen my throtle arm elbow from when i got the boat hard chime walking, I had one hell of a swallen bruised up elbow boat stayed straight but like i said when some one asks if it chime walks hell no it gunalrails. Hydromotive is in my back yard here in ohio what pitch did you run rootsy and was it labbed any from them

[Rootsy]

I went 68+ with an Alpha Gen II.... 4 or 5 passes... It would have gone faster but I ran out of lake and frankly.. It was absolutely NO FUN. It was out of control and chine walk was the least of the worries... Found an SS.. put it on... Never looked back... Instant 8 - 10 mph... Made it a different beast entirely

But my SS was a bit "different". Came to me as a 1.59:1 ratio. Due to the Mod VP CLE lower on a prototype SS upper housing. After I broke it at Kentucky I rebuilt it and made it a 1.47:1.

With a 1.59:1 I was running a 27P O/T and I was spinning it about 5600 rpm on average. 1.47 dropped her down into the low 5's. Went to a 23P and got her back into the upper 5's about 6K...

Then I disassembled the whole thing and sold it off...

[smallblockford]

i think one of the reasons i lift the stern up so much is all the weight i took out. aluminum heads, alum intake, alum gil headers. in conjuntion with the drive being so far in the water.

i have a gimbal coming for the ss, but what type of mods did you do to the gen 2 and it has to be takin out to mill it of course.

i havnt even tried to bolt it up the ss is in my shop getting ready to be rebuilt.

[Rootsy]

You will have to remove the bellhousing on the Gen II transom assy. You will need to buy a Gen I upper shift shaft to go in that bellhousing. You will then have to mill the bottom of the bellhousing so the new shift shaft clears as the Gen II is longer. Now you will lose your bearing surface and you'll need to take the bronze bearing you removed before milling and epoxy it into place in the exhaust cavity of the bell housing... Put it back together and go through the shift cable adjustment procedure.

Need to make 2 spacers also for the end of the trim rams as the Gen I had the big rubbers and the gen II uses the nylon inserts. You can see the spacer in my photo.

Or you can probably just get a Gen I bellhousing and bolt it into the Gen II gimble ring.

[smallblockford]

rootsy your the man, didnt even notice the spacers the first time. keep it simple. why do you say proto type upper. hmm. have you ever had your prop lab finished to gain an extra 150 rpm i did it on my stv pro comp it helped

[Sweet Cheekz]

[quote=Rootsy;533796]I went 68+ with an Alpha Gen II.... 4 or 5 passes... It would have gone faster but I ran out of lake and frankly.. It was absolutely NO FUN. It was out of control and chine walk was the least of the worries... Found an SS.. put it on... Never looked back... Instant 8 - 10 mph... Made it a different beast entirely

But my SS was a bit "different". Came to me as a 1.59:1 ratio. Due to the Mod VP CLE lower on a prototype SS upper housing. After I broke it at Kentucky I rebuilt it and made it a 1.47:1.

With a 1.59:1 I was running a 27P O/T and I was spinning it about 5600 rpm on average. 1.47 dropped her down into the low 5's. Went to a 23P and got her back into the upper 5's about 6K...

quote]

Rootsy I think I asked once b4 but what horsepower did you have when you got up to 80?

Smallblock Well done! You will be very happy with the ss Keep up the updates
Parnell

[Rootsy]

No labbed props... Other than one old cleaver at one time which really sucked.

Sweet, I donno... somewhere in the low 4's at the crank I reckon.

and I say prototype upper because in the original SS brochure from Mercury, my SS was bolted to the 320 EFI motor in the photo. Complete with ModVP gearcase. My upper was not completely machined. Had not been machined nor drilled & tapped for the wear pads and had no S/N... The MODVP gearcase did have a S/N on it and had been drilled for oil transfer from upper to lower... The ModVP case picks up the water on the side like a regular alpha lower (the intakes are quite different).

[smallblockford]

i understand know. been looking my ss over neat drive the upper is machined different from stock and there is a larger webbing in the upper in front of the water pick up tube. I never noticed some of this stuff yrs back when i worked on one for a guy.

when you ran the 1.47 grs were they the new set of near net forged merc

i ask cuz i am going to go thru the drive and am debating which set is better i have a set of hd merc 1.5s laying around and i have 1.47 newer near net forged.

at merc training the instructers brag about the newer near net forged durability but some times what is said in class has some bs to it.
not to forget that alphas nowadays are not bolted to the horsepower.
i have built the old set of 1.50 to handle 400hp with no problems as long as you take out wake jumping. then i would see drive shafts break at the oring groove. this was on bajas when we were a dealer.

[Rootsy]

First you have to realize that I always had the 1.5 gearset in the upper. The SS housing is very very very different from a regular alpha gen I housing. It is literally shorter and the aspect ratio is greater. The length, front to rear is longer. The gearset is the same as a Gen I though. When I rebuilt the upper I went with the HD gearset.

Then comes the ModVP lower... it is an animal unto itself being an OB gearcase. It will bolt (as well as all other 2.5 litre OB cases) to the SS upper. You just have to machine it for oil transfer and put the SS vertical shaft in it. Then there are the shifting differences... which are beyond the scope of this thread.

In a nutshell. I broke a tooth off of the pinion and it went through the side of the case. Hole was repaired with the TIG and I went about on an engineering quest to figure out what would work in there. No one other than a fellow in Wisconsin, was of much help... Standard alpha parts would not fit. In the end I forget exactly what I found to go in there (they were OB gears - I have receipts somewhere - Might have gotten it from Poodle actually) but I had to relieve the case to clear the pinion gear. Shimming and thrust washer placement and determination took some time to get right so that you had proper clutch dog engagement and indexing. When I finished it shifted as well as any regular ole alpha I had ever run. The original gearing in the lower made the overall gear ratio 1.59 as I purchased it. Upon rebuild, the gearset I used in the lower resulted in an overall 1.47:1 gear ratio. Yes I did all of the work myself... DougL had the case welded for me though.

[smallblockford]

when is aoth?

[smallblockford]

pics of the ss also check out the merc racing labbed cleaver look at the edges of the blades to bad i think it isnt enough pitch but i am going to try it to see what it handles like on that prop. also put pics of a stock upper an ss above it on bench49927

49928

49929

49930

[smallblockford]

well got the bell housing on had to switch to older alpha one bellows, gen 2 is different there, also had to plug the lube moniter and speedo line. Drive is moched up and on. while i was in there i put a new shift cable in.
i still have to adjust that today

gen 2 rams move to low and cause the drive to hit so i will have to space the negative trim out eventually. but for know i will just be carefull

hopefully today after work i can do some testing maybe some video

[Rootsy]

well got the bell housing on had to switch to older alpha one bellows, gen 2 is different there, also had to plug the lube moniter and speedo line. Drive is moched up and on. while i was in there i put a new shift cable in.
i still have to adjust that today

gen 2 rams move to low and cause the drive to hit so i will have to space the negative trim out eventually. but for know i will just be carefull

hopefully today after work i can do some testing maybe some video

Sorry man, forgot to tell you bout the lube fitting. Forgot all about the bellows. Speedo line can just hang there.

The leading edge of the SS gearcase will hit the gen II forward trim ram cross bar. Never did anything bout it and it never posed a problem. I just adjusted the trim indicator to show full in at that point. It won't present an issue getting on plane either, it is far enough "in".

[smallblockford]

no rootsy you helped me out greatly, heck i gotta figure some of it out on my own right.

only other concern is i am running the gen 2 thermastat housing which is designed for the bigger water pump in the gen 2 drive so i hope i dont have to change that i will be watching the temp.

just wanna get out there and do some test runs.

[Rootsy]

I never had an issue and I never touched any of the plumbing on my engine... 160 thermostat too...

[smallblockford]

ran it today couldnt get the gps to work, had signal probs

boat was way more controlable but if i get this video uploaded some how on youtube you wouldnt think so

to much prob to much diamater 4 blades and yes i overtrimed it

no run area in the little lake

[smallblockford]

4300 rpm 26 pitch bravo 4 blade. all over the place and had alot of fun
no cooling issues

[Rootsy]

4300 rpm 26 pitch bravo 4 blade. all over the place and had alot of fun
no cooling issues

#1 my 16 never liked more than about 1/4 of the way up the trim gauge. 1/4 of the way from full "in" was the point where it was fastest and most of the time it was still very stable.

#2 get rid of the bravo...

What do you have for power.... Figure with 400 - 425 at the crank I was spinning a 23P Quad IV O/T in the 5600 - 5800 rpm range with 1.47:1... The O/T was consistently in the 8 -9% slip area... you can do the math from there

[younger]

Nice tread, I have been following with great intrest. There is no dought that the 16 when powered up needs to get rid of the standard drive length to reduce the leverage factor. I have tried 3 different motor combo's in my 16 all with the alpha genII. The latest a motown 415 sbc with aluminum top, roller valve trian callies crank, 6" rods, forged coated pistons. Running stainless marine exhaust with long risers out the back. It makes an easy 475hp and 525 ftlb of torque. And I can relate to all the handling issues that the 16 has at speed. If it is any help I am running 1.32 gears with bobs nose cone on the lower. The list of props laser II 19, 23,23lab, mirage plus 23, mach 22 four blade cleaver 15.25" dia. stelleto 24, turbo 24 and a 5 blade 22pitch outboard prop do not know the manufacture of this one. The best being 74 mph gps with the laser II 23 lab @ 5300 rpm. The best handling is the 5 blade, it will run 72mph gps @ 5200 pm. This is my most effiecent running 50mph @ just a touch over 3000 rpm, this is with full gas and my family of 3. I have come to the conclution that I have reached the termanal speed with this drive. A short drive may also be in my future. The best of luck. Be safe.

[smallblockford]

yesterday i put my hydromotive i had from an outboard lab finished 3 blade 14.25x26 on. boat revs up and cavitates out of the hole then starts to bite and through up a small rooster even trimed down then bites hard rooster goes down and away we go alot more controled couldnt get the best speeds yet cuz the lake i am in has a speed area and it was full of boats with lots of diffent rolling 1s 2s and mixe other stuff.

almost got a kid in a hydrostream i got 71.3 on gps and couldnt keep the throttle down it was so choppy. when i can keep it down i am 5000 rpms in those short burst that got me that on gps so when my lake calms down i will get better knowledge of what it will do flat out and i think i will go down a pitch to 25 and get 5150 for my rpms and get her to run out

[smallblockford]

oh i forgot i had a cooling issue lake were the marina is at has a ton of sea weed . you guys with ss should watch they get pluged up easy in the low water pick ups and thats it.

[smallblockford]

i just posted this on youtube hope it is right first time and excuse the driving there is no room on my lake you have to stay in the bouys and it is all no wake except for that in that area. let me know what i have to do if this doesnt work i have never posted on you tube

20090901152209

[smallblockford]

changed title to donzi 16 akron

this is a poor run 2 days later i changed the prop and had it down on the water and ran decent all though there were about 8 boats in my little area problem was i had no one to video tape. i still havnt got this video to pull up in a search

[smallblockford]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs1xQ85DkJc

[smallblockford]

spent more time with the bow in the air than going forward there gps wouldnt work i think it was about low 60s then i switched props out like rootsy said earlier and i got 71.3 with no bow lift or rock. i will try to get vid to prov it soon

[Sweet Cheekz]

What is the prop that worked best so far? Is this with your ss on?

[smallblockford]

it is a hydromotive i got they are about 20 min down the street that is lab finished 26 pitch cavitates like crazy at first it is a 3 blade iq but when it bites it bites and away we go. rpm is good and i couldnt even run it there is no room to really get set in until i get used to it i am going to get video of it as soon as possible . and yes that is the ss on it. sweet cheekz you got on sweet a__ 16. how is the magnum going if i can help you on any parts let me know i run my familys marina i will help you out as best i can

[smallblockford]

yea it had the ss but the bravo 4 blade created a ton of roll and lift i put the hydromotive that i tried before the ss that was a little crazy on and it worked great i just need someone to hold the camera and no holiday weekend

[Rootsy]

Dude... Someone got happy with the delete key...

[mike o]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs1xQ85DkJcYoull get there:yes:. Flick is entertaining. Where ya get your engine hatch? Make it yourself .....(like everything else):kingme:. The motor sounds great.:yes:

[smallblockford]

same day worse but this one you get to hear the boat with no mufflers for a pass same crappy prop. gotta find a new camera man

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_5r_6cOtEA
there is some pun to that went to a local bar resteraunt with the boat after i got it running better although my camera man was at work during testing that after noon so later that night when you cant speed on my lake had the new hydromotive on that is thined to the hilt and a bouncer got a little friscy with camera man thru him in and busted his shins up on my prop had to get stitches not to mention he also got peppersprayed all for not having his id because of a dui. what is the odds of that bs

[bill44]

First let me say that you seem to be a very "bright" young fellow,(after reading all your post regarding the redo of your boat).Now after watching the last videos, I'm curious as to why the boat seemed to be a little "lose".I've viewed the videos posted by Geo11 and James Root and I think everyone is in agreement when I say that they had some serious horsepower resulting in some speeeed! and yet it seemed to me that their boats drove quite "true" no chine walking, no porposeing and as a matter of fact their hands were on the wheel only because they had no other place to put them, (they only wish). Getting back to your video, were you deliberately trying to "launch" your boat by "stomping" on the foot throttle, or was it because you seemed to be running it in a circle, or the prop and your s/s. I think everyone on this site would like to see an honest to goodness video of you actually doing a safe yet all out speed run, not one were your "ba--s are against the wall" One other short comment, it looked to me like you weren't wearing a "pfd" and what was it that you took off from around your neck at the end of the second video?I hope it was not your teather line. I hope that you do not think that nothing will ever happen to me, only to the other guy.
hope you don't take this post the wrong way really.
Bailey

[smallblockford]

first it doesnt have a foot throttle and yes were i am at you are force to go in a small circle. the jump is because of the prop i tried i have heard such comments as hull has a twist which is bs.

fact is the prop i was turning had way to much diamater and was totally wrong would have worked great on a 26ft heavy boat the smaller the boat the more you will notice that props are key to getting the boat controlled. i had a bravo 26pitch 4blade on it not to mention not much room to get it right. it isnt that i cant swing the pitch it comes down to blade surface area trim angle, blade rake. which can change a boats nature totally from props that want to give natural bow lift or transom lift.

a day or 2 later i switch props 2 a hydromotive outboard prop 3 blade 26 pitch i had it didnt act anything like you see bud had no one to video.

next issue the thing around my neck was a hand held gps that i was having troubles keeping satalite signals. probable ran mid 60s that day.

the next day different prop and to much boat trafic i had 71.3 on the handheld

and no i wasnt wearing a pdf on that i wont say its smart but i felt like i had it under control and wouldnt keep the throttle down long enough to get there those runs were the first time with an alpha ss and that combo i just wanted to feel and see what the boat was doing, and what i could put together

to get the speed and contol it comes down to x dimension and not only that but prop is the key

[fogducker III]

IMO, to get speed AND control of any high powered boat, takes SEAT TIME.......put a basic prop, perhaps a 21 or 23 pitch and take the boat to a real body of water and learn to drive the boat, and then "play" with different props, X dimension, trim etc.....and wear a damn PFD.....AND get a LANYARD.......:eek::nilly::yes::wink:

[Sweet Cheekz]

sweet cheekz you got on sweet a__ 16. how is the magnum going if i can help you on any parts let me know i run my familys marina i will help you out as best i can


Thanks SBF
Keep trying different things and you will get the boat dialed in perfect Sounds from the three blade like you may be close already. A small bit of advice Wear a life jacket and find a little bigger lake for your tests
I am redoing a 21 gt so the magnum got cleaned up and put away till spring. I appreciate the offer and will give you a shout when I start looking for everything
Parnell

[younger]

It takes some time to figure the combo out, but it also take some seat time to figure the hull out. It seems every spring I have to get the feeling back of driving my 16 to its max. It doesn't take much to effect these small hulls. You have to remember no two hulls are always the same. You have the recipe to go fast, you just need to get baking. Find some open water to test on, so you can consintraite on going strait and not in circles.

[smallblockford]

last night i put a 4 blade hydromotive iq 4 on the boat i had laying around. 24 pitch it had way to much lift. guys in other boats said the transom was so far out of the water at 67 mph that they could see half the prop and the bow well lets just say it was running at about 5 to 6 feet. felt like a constant weelie on my streat bike was nice in one ft to almost 2 ft waves cuz it didnt even hit the bottom of the hull. bad news the boat was so out of the water that even with the ss alpha and the water pickup that i started to smoke a new water pump. so hi had to stop i am tring to dig up some old smaller diamater props out of my stock pile so i can see what i want to order

[smallblockford]

right know i am tring to test thru hub props but i think i will get and over the hub cleaver. over the hub that away the boat will sit down 1.5 inchs compared to it riding on the over hub even though it will ride on the bullit of the drive i think the hub still will give me a little settle on the back end.

i sweer if i dont get were i want i am building an all aluminum sbc of at least 427ci.

but i keep telling myself first get the proping on this down. just havnt had any time are marina is slamed and suprising selling boats and people keep breaking there old boats so i still have a job with very little time off in the summer