Conceivable gas prices?

[Tony]

Jack Cafferty tonight said that Goldman Sacs says it is not inconceivable for a gallon of gas to be at $7 or $8 within 24 months. In one year a barrel of crude has doubled to $123 today...thus $200/barrel in 2 years is well within the realm of reality. It is simply supply and demand, he opines, with China, Russia, Brazil, India, and others skewing market we have been used to.

Cafferty went on, of course to mention our politician's propensity for having ostrich heads stuck in the sand, and whoever the next president is will inherit this (and other) fairly epic issues!

So...is there a "tipping point" for you as a Donzi owner? A time when you say, "Holy crapola, that's a heck of a lot of money for one tank of gas!"?

I know there is a camp who say, "If you can't afford the gas...blah, blah, blah," and I know this has been discussed often.
But $7 or $8 a gallon...Holy Crapola! What do you think?
:beer:

[Donziweasel]

I think my fuel bill for my company is going from 210,000.00 a year to 500,000.00 a year! Anyone want to buy a transportation campany?

Maybe I will stick with the 16, it seems to do pretty well on gas. I know many members jumped from 16 and 18 to 22's. Wonder if we will see some shrinkage.

[Carl C]

They need to drill those wells in Alaska. And after liberating Kuwait why didn't we get some kind of deal for cut rate oil. All that money and they rely on OUR military for protection. Same thing in Iraq, why aren't we getting enough free oil to pay for the war effort. Something really stinks here.

[gcarter]

Of course boaters and performance car owners in many places around the world have been paying higher (MUCH HIGHER) prices for years. I guess it's just a matter of how bad you want to.
But in those places, most of those prices are in the form of taxes. Here it's almost all supply and demand, and poor exchange rates. One other thing to remember is that prices only recently surpassed the price of '81 adjusted for inflation, so we've been here before. The answer then, as now, is increased production. At the risk of being dinged, one party wants to increase production and the other doesn't.....keep that in mind in November.
I may be wrong, but I'll go on record by saying that this rate of increase is unsustainable. I think something will give.....it will probably be the economies of a number of emerging countries who are also big importers. Remember, China and India subsidizes the price of fuel for their citizens. How long can they do that? :confused:

[mrfixxall]

This guy here seems to know what is going on,,watch it its vary interesting..

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147

[roadtrip se]

I have always been one of the guys here who says if you are going to own a performance boat, then you have to pay the freight to run it.

I don't think anyone wants to pay $4.00 per gallon, much less $7.00 or $8.00 to run anything, because even if you sit home and don't drive anything including your lawnmower, high fuel prices are costing us all for everything we buy and need.

Before the whining starts about how expensive it is going to be run our boats this summer, which I will still do, I have something for you to think about. Imagine if that 16, 18, or 22 had twin motors, something like twin big blocks. I lived that dream for quite a few years. I used to burn 2.5 times the amount of fuel I do now to go the same distance at about the same speeds.

So our boats could be considered "economy" performance boats compared to the twin big boys and their fuel consumption. I'm really going to feel for the twin 7.4 Baja guys this summer who barely break 60 and have to watch us Donzi Classic guys pass them by as they burn more fuel for less speed and performance.

Another bonus? Maybe our "economy" performance boats will be worth more in this sort of gas price environment.

Point? It could be worse, as we all approach the pumps to fill her up. I am going boating starting next week.

[Carl C]

I've got no complaints about $4 per gallon but $7 or $8, now that's another story.:eek!:

[f_inscreenname]

It cant stay this high forever. We will be using water instead.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMovXzVOzc4

http://waterpoweredcar.com/hydrobooster2.html

[RedDog]

Have you noticed that one of the arguments against expanding oil exploration and production in the US is that "it won't help - it would take 10 years for that oil to hit the market." Well how long have those people been blocking further domestic production? Well over 10 years! Yes, the increased domestic production isn't the only answer - BUT IT IS A BIG PART OF THE SOLUTION!

Note: I think (THINK) the common complaint about "no new refinerys built in 30 years" may just be a red herring. While none have been built, the existing ones have been expanded significantly. Easy to expand vs. get permits and build new.

I think I'm just going to float in my 22 more than I run it. At least I'll look cool (if their are any other boaters to see me):cussball:

[BUIZILLA]

$5 will be a solid economic recession, of proportions not yet seen... 50-75% of trucking will go under, boating will stall, airlines will be bankrupt, motorcycle and bicycle dealerships will flourish

$7 will have us deep in a depression, equal to the 30's...., the country will basically shut down, except for medical or law enforcement jobs

$8 will put us under, and we'll probably never recover

and a single gun shot will never have been fired across enemy lines to have it happen

on the flip of this... $2.50 oil will energize this country for a run we'll wish we were ready for...

you read it here first

[ChromeGorilla]

I'll keep boatin.... i'll give up other things before boating....

Filled boat up today before I head to FLA on Fri... Paid $3.33/gal. Took 42 gal.... $139.86 Not to mention 20 gal of diesel too @ $3.99/gal. for the truck. And for the first time ever I had a rude comment about my boat. Some jack off in a .........PRIUS... says to me as I tick past $100.... "People like you is the reason why there is an inflated demand for gasoline and inflated prices..."

I looked at him with a smile and said... "The best part is, I get about 1.5 MPG."

Oh well.... gotta pay to play.

[Carl C]

Some jack off in a .........PRIUS... says to me as I tick past $100.... "People like you is the reason why there is an inflated demand for gasoline and inflated prices..."

What a clueless idiot.:mad:

[Tony]

WTF...unleaded in MI is at $3.89, diesel is $4.19!

I peruse a Fidelity Investment Forum, and a respected member named "erryl" is quoted below. I think it's a well written summary of our predicament, complete with a possible solution. (I usually don't cut and paste...)


I believe that nuclear power is essential to cleaning up our environment (by reducing the emission of green house gasses) and achieving energy independence (by reducing our reliance on imported oil and natural gas), while maintaining or improving our standard of living. While renewable sources of power should be encouraged, nuclear is the only power source with the capability to come online with large quantities of power in relatively short periods of time (we are still talking years if not decades). Much of our coal generation is obsolete and should be taken offline asap. For coal to be environmentally friendly, new technology and plants are required. Natural gas should not be used for any base load power, but unfortunately it is in large quantities. This is how California got out of the energy crisis created in part by Enron (building a lot of gas plants and placing them online). The east cost uses a lot of fuel oil for generating electricity, also pretty silly imho. It is just too precious of a resource to use fossil fuels in this way imho. If we cutback on the use of coal (for air pollution reasons), oil (to reduce our oil dependence), and natural gas (to save it for residential heating - a much more efficient use of the fuel), then that only leaves nuclear as a major power supplier. There is no way that altenative energy sources can pick up that load anytime soon.

We need to be expanding the use of solar (most homes in the south should have a solar panel on their roof)... we need to expand our use of wind turbines (they should be located off shore and on the continental divide in large numbers)... we need to explore more efficient alcohol production using non-food and more efficient sources than corn... we need to explore geothermal heating systems like Iceland has in abundance (where practical)... heat pumps using buried pipe instead of air heat transfer should be more common... waste and biomass combustion should be used to develop power... coal gasification and other clean forms of mining and burning coal need to be developed (perhaps using open mouth plants to eliminate the transportation "costs" of coal)... fuel cells and fusion technology needs to get research money for future use... we need to encourage energy conservation in new ways (perhaps a tax on wasting energy)... it goes on and on and I imagine that all of these technologies will be needed. BUT the only technology ready and waiting to take up large amounts of the slack in an environmentally friendly way is nuclear power.

New technology in nuclear power needs to focus on simpler designs that require less construction cost (the real reason no plants have been built in the last 2 decades) and are intrinsically safer to operate. Obviously, the fuel storage problem needs to be solved as well. These are all doable, though, if there is the will. Many other countries in the world are building nuclear power plants... some of them emerging market countries. It is rediculous that we aren't. Nuclear power could easily double its contribution (presently about 25%) to our power needs.

[HallJ]

I'll keep boatin.... i'll give up other things before boating....

Filled boat up today before I head to FLA on Fri... Paid $3.33/gal. Took 42 gal.... $139.86 Not to mention 20 gal of diesel too @ $3.99/gal. for the truck. And for the first time ever I had a rude comment about my boat. Some jack off in a .........PRIUS... says to me as I tick past $100.... "People like you is the reason why there is an inflated demand for gasoline and inflated prices..."

I looked at him with a smile and said... "The best part is, I get about 1.5 MPG."

Oh well.... gotta pay to play.


Did he have his eyes closed while he was telling you that?
Smug bastard!

Jeff

[Barry Eller]

I'm going to re-design my bimini top so I can sail around the bay...:propeller:

I guess the outdrive can still be my rudder...Watch out for the Boom!

[BUIZILLA]

have you ever seen a trailer hitch on a Prius??

[Rootsy]

Why does it hurt so damn much? Because people in general, in this country for the past 2, nearly 3 decades have become excessively gluttonous. It wasn't long ago when every soccer mom in the country had a 4 door Excursion burning $1.50 gas running 500+ miles a week here and there... People driving north or wherever to vacation homes every weekend. Anything that used gasoline and diesel fuel was a cheap form of recreation...

Well welcome to reality folks. Guess we're just catching up to most of Europe and Canada. The energy crunch is going to separate those who can from those who can't, and quick. So long as demand is there to utilize all of the supply and someone is willing to pay more than the next guy prices are going to climb. At least until either there is more supply than demand or prices get too high to make importation of products unfeasible and we bring manufacturing back to this country, essentially cutting off funds to foreign countries. Unfortunately this has become a global economy and I doubt it's going to occur... at least not on the scale required. Other countries have their hands too far into our cookie jar.

For the average joe, the only option is to reduce consumption and think and live a bit more humble. Trying to outdo the Jones' is going to be the death of middle America.

Now if you'll excuse me I have more vegetables to plant and firewood to split... :yes:

[Donziweasel]

I disagree. While Americans are probably the most energy wasting people on the planet, oil prices have been driven more by speculation and the weak dollar than supply and demand. With a weak dollar, foreign investors have been intintially driving up oil prices for short term gains. The bubble will burst eventually as the dollar gets back on it's feet.

Oil has been driven by speculation and un-founded fears for the last year, not supply. I tanker gets hijacked, or an oil line somehwere in the middle east is tampered with, and what happens? Oil goes through the roof for the day. It is not that the one tanker is affecting the world's oil supply, it is driven by foreign investors hyping the fear. Hell, if someone stubs their toe these days, oil prices sky rocket for the day. Fear can be the strongest motivator in monetary markets, not supply and demand.

Also, there is a difference between energy and oil. Most domestic energy is produced via hydroelectric and out west, coal fired plants.

[Donziweasel]

I would also like to add that we are in the "snowball" effect. The more people scream and yell about it, the more fear is spread and the higher the price. Oil can not be justified at it's current level simply by supply and demand. Most specualtors agree that we are in for a painful short run on oil. Most also agree that the current market can not sustain this forever. Just like the DOT COM craze. Speculation drove these markets to redicoulous levels and then the market could not sustain the hype and the bubble burst. Are the days of 1.50 a gallon gone? Probably, but that doesn't mean that 4.00+ is here to stay either.

[mjw930]

have you ever seen a trailer hitch on a Prius??

Actually, I have, it was pulling a hobi cat :doh:

[Rootsy]

I guess someone out there needs to explain to me just how a barrel of oil makes it to a refinery once it comes out of the tube in the sand... Someone somewhere is willing to pay the price, speculators or not... If someone is willing to pay the asking price or outbid the next guy the price will keep going up... which directly trickles down to you and me... You have to have flour to make bread...

Now why do we have a weak dollar... Gluttony, greed and poor decision making right from the banks and fund managers down to jack and jill homemaker needing more house and material things than they can afford...

[mjw930]

I guess someone out there needs to explain to me just how a barrel of oil makes it to a refinery once it comes out of the tube in the sand... Someone somewhere is willing to pay the price, speculators or not... If someone is willing to pay the asking price or outbid the next guy the price will keep going up... which directly trickles down to you and me... You have to have flour to make bread...
Now why do we have a weak dollar... Gluttony, greed and poor decision making right from the banks and fund managers down to jack and jill homemaker needing more house and material things than they can afford...

Actually, the main reason we have a weak dollar is because of our current governments bad fiscal management. When we have to borrow foreign money to prop up our budget and we continue to finance massive debt the dollar will continue to slide.

The cost of fuel is merely a byproduct.

[Donziweasel]

Jamie, you know I respect the hell out of you, but what it costs to produce that gallon of gas and what it is sold for on the world market are two different things. Once again, fear can drive that production price vs. selling price through the roof.

You here stories of China taking all our oil. These reports originate with investors looking for short term gains. China gets it's oil from other producers than the US. There is really no conflict there.

You here Hugo Chavez scream and yell he is cutting off US oil exports. He can't as we are one of the few countries that can refine his low grade crude. This still drives fear and speculation.

ALL monetary markets operate more on speculation than real time supply and demand. You invest in what you believe markets will do, not where they currently are. If there is money to be made in oil right now, than people are going to speculate, invest, and do whatever they can to maximize profits. It doesn't cost any more to produce gas now then it did 10 years ago, actually might be less with technology advances.

[Donziweasel]

MJW, I agree completely, and it affects all markets, not just oil. Look at food. Is there any less food in the world now than 5 years ago? No, but fear and the weak dollar are driving up these markets as well.

I am not filling up the family grocery getter, I am fueling a fleet of 45 vehicles. Oil and gas is almost more important to me than the average joe. I have to speculate as well. I have to set my prices at a level that can be sustainable in my market, but that will also cover my expenses. Fear of the market forces me to put my prices higher than a simply break even scenario. I have to speculate where oil is now, 3 months from now and 6 months from now and adjust accordingly. I am SCARED that if I go too low, I won't keep up with oil markets, and will lose my ass.

BTW, the current cost of getting oil out of the ground, refining, and getting it to the pumps is between .90 and a 1.20 a gallon. If you take the high road, 1.20 a gallon, and it is sold at 4.00 a gallon, you are making a 333% profit. Is this justifiable on a purely supply and demand scenario?

[Carl C]

There was an item in this morning's paper that said Iraq is willing to reimburse the USA for some of the billions of $ we are spending to rebuild their country. It said they are "expected to reap some $70 billion in oil revenue this year". I think a good place to start would be discounted oil. The hell with OPEC. I also think we need to get over our fear of nuclear energy. We have that technology now and it is clean and green. We could have nuclear cargo ships and cruise ships and maybe even trains. All consuming absolutely no fuel and emitting only water vapor. How much diesel are all of these ships going back and forth to China consuming? Nuclear reactor fuel rods cannot be used to make nuclear weapons. Dirty bombs, yes, but not atomic bombs. Solar energy is our next best bet but we need some break throughs still. As far as cars and boats, they will be petro powered for the conceivable future. Electric cars may be OK for urban use but are truly "green" only if recharged from a green power source. Unfortunately most of our power still comes from burning coal so while an electric car produces no direct pollution and gives the owner a warm fuzzy feeling it really only shifts the emissions to the increased demand on the coal fired power plants. Out of sight, out of mind. Just some early morning reflections.............:drive::boat:

[Rootsy]

John,

Speculators may drive up the prices, such is the price of a publicly traded commodity... but someone is still buying at those elevated prices in order to refine... Might cost the same to refine the stuff but the base stock costs more hence the end product costs more. People bitch about absurd profits in terms of dollars... Most companies I've ever dealt with speak of profits in terms of a percentage of sales... No different than stocks or any other commodity market... look at the grain prices and futures...

You want crooks... look at fertilizer, pesticide, herbicide and seed suppliers... Monsanto for one... There are a buttload of companies out there getting their huge share of the agricultural commodity boom we have going on right now... Sure isn't the farmer in the end...

As for the weak dollar... if you keep printing money with nothing to back up it's value... well you get inflation... No problem just drop the interest rates and print some more green backs to bail out large investment houses and banks who made piss poor decisions... pay for a war, feed the world... We all get to pay... in one way or another.

[Donziweasel]

Now this is something I do agree on with you Jamie. On a purely percentage scanario, the oil companies public profits are aound the 36-37%, which is acceptable in world markets. And, people still have to pay the price, because much like food, oil is currently necessary in our economy. Many people look at oil companies as crooks, but we VALUE our free markets. You can't have both. If you put finaincial regulations on oil companies, then you compromise our free market economy.

I also agree about inflation. How many interest cuts have there been in the last year? The Feds idea of controlling inflation is cut rates, and produce more money, actually compounding the problem.

Personally, I still think this is short term, another year or two. Economies, much like mother nature, will take care of themselves if you leave them the hell alone. While people are currently upset and demanding action, the actions taken are not a long term solution and will eventually worsen the condition. Eventually, even with all the tampering with the Feds, the market will correct itself, but might get much worse before it does. Best thing, quit bailing companies who made poor investment decisions out, end Iraq, quit messing with rate, quit producing more money, and weather the storm. Like all storms, this one will eventually end, but how fast it ends is up to us.

Damn, I love a fiesta conversation with coffee in the morning.

[Craig S]

have you ever seen a trailer hitch on a Prius??
Actually, there's a diogostician here at school that has a hitch on his...tows his aluminum outboard fishing boat in/out of the water. I was surprised, also.

[Donziweasel]

If you like the Prius, here is an interesting article for ya-

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080508/ap_on_bi_ge/earns_japan_toyota

Toyota, the second largest and one of the most profitable car companies in the world is taking a hit. Weak dollar is a huge reason. Gm, biggest loss of car compaines, Ford, remained profitable. Go Ford!

[Carl C]

quit producing more money Well, damn, I just printed up a fresh batch.:propeller:







BTW that was a joke
joke, joke, joke. IRS do not raid me!....Joke

[Donziweasel]

Secret Service, he lives in Michigan somewhere and has a yellow 22 Classic. You will know it is him because you can sleep under the bow of his boat. I think he hides the money he prints there.:eek!::hangum:

[MOP]

The last time the gas prices went nuts the Gov instituted the 55 MPH limit, it was projected to save 15-20 percent. Also the car companies immediately started to produce gas savers, I wonder why nothing is being done this time. I like many I have a heavy foot, but it would only cost me 15-20 minutes daily to knock my fuel bill down at reduced speeds. Back when it was instituted the last time the average driver was clipping along at 65ish now it is 75ish, fuel consumption goes up drastically above 60. I would like to have them slow things down, would it make me happy no but it would be a good thing!

Phil

[roadtrip se]

Mine, in diesel form, gets about 20-22 mpg on the highway which is pretty darn good economy and I don't take it anywhere without it being loaded up or towing something with it somewhere. I do agree with the fact that soccer moms had no business driving these things to haul kids to school and most of them couldn't drive the dang things any way!

I think Tony's cut and paste covers the circumstances pretty well. The key here is that our economy is oil-based and there are no quick fixes. What kills me are all of the conspiracy theories and political noise that comes with this like someone can flip a switch and take us back to $1.89 fuel.

Ironically, in my business the automakers are having to scramble to make a looming 35MPG adjusted CAFE. The new rules are as dumb as the old ones were, because the manufacturers are going to have to build vehicles that people don't want to drive and increase overall per unit costs. With the current price of fuel, people are already flocking to smaller, more efficient cars without the need for draconian legislation.

The market will drive change in behavior and higher prices are part of it. Politics and intervention will just cause artificial speed bumps in a process that has already begun. Quick fixes from the past are going to work as well as they did the last time they were tried. I do agree that we should incent the market to go in the right direction, that is why you see big auto execs endorsing higher priced gas for example, but forcing or blocking market change will just send the supply to other places.

[Donziweasel]

The 55 mph limit I think was based more on safety than fuel consumption. While it may have had it's roots in the 70's oil embargo, It was more safety oriented. I remember reading that it was supposed to save lives, but in the end, deaths and injuried were almost identical at 65 mph as they were at 55 mph. I might be wrong.

When I first moved here, Montana had no speed limit. Kinda nice setting the cruise control on 105 mph on a long western straightaway.

[Carl C]

Secret Service, he lives in Michigan somewhere and has a yellow 22 Classic. You will know it is him because you can sleep under the bow of his boat. I think he hides the money he prints there.:eek!::hangum: And his real name is John and he has a summer home in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, which is where he is right now.

Mop, No more "55, stay alive" pleeeeease. That was just a hidden tax. No one who had to drive any real milage obeyed it. It just made driving on the freeway a cat and mouse game with radar detectors and all.

While this is an interesting topic to discuss, I really think $4 per gallon is not all that much and is just keeping pace with inflation. It is not going to slow me down, curb my activities or force me to drive a puddle jumper.

[MOP]

I read that the Alaska oil potential production is very high, don't quote me but I believe it went on to say the oil companies would need 20,000 acres to do the job in an environmentally save fashion. Sounds like a bunch of acres, but considering the fact that there are over 500,000,000 acres up there the oil companies foot print would be spit! I have felt for many years the "Tree Hugger's" would do more harm then good I guess I am right!

[MOP]

Out of context but another great feat of the tree hugger's! In the last 20 years I have had about 15 friends die from limes disease, which is a direct result of them pushing for total bans on pesticides instead of well thought out controls. Limes disease was unheard of since the 20's smart move!

[roadtrip se]

trying to get across Ohio as it is now.

I counted 30 cruisers during one week day over about 200 miles.

I felt REAL safe, as they kept attempting to pick my pocket.

We need more of them on the road at 55.

[Donziweasel]

MOP- You are right. Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) is 19,000,000acres, 10 times the size of Yellowstone. Preliminary reports are that there is enough oil there to supply all of the US's domestic needs for 30-40 years. No drilling though, bunny huggers won't let us. They say "we need to preserve it for future generations to enjoy". What the ****? Last year, 3500 people visited ANWR. Why preserve it if no one is enjoying it now? It has some mountains, but is really mosquito infested, un populated, no road area with a few birds. It is located due east of Prudhoe Bay. It was approved for drilling twice, once 2 weeks before the Valdez and again, two years ago. Both times, an oil spill shut it down.

Exxon was allowed to drill a test well there in 1997. They won't say what they found, but they want to go back so bad it is killing them.

There is a movement by two congressman to allow drilling if oil hits 125.00 a barrel for 5 straight days. We hit 123.00 today. I say, drill the hell out of it.

[BUIZILLA]

Mine, in diesel form, gets about 20-22 mpg on the highway which is pretty darn good economy and I don't take it anywhere without it being loaded up or towing something with it somewhere. so your telling me your getting 20-22 while towing..... sorry dude, I call major BS :toilet:

[Donziweasel]

I agree, my 2004 F-350 with the 6.0L got 21 mph on the highway and it is lighter than an Excursion. Throw anything behind is and it went south from there. My V-10 Excursions in my fleet get 12-13. No way a fully loaded or towing Excursion is getting over 21.

[handfulz28]

so your telling me your getting 20-22 while towing..... sorry dude, I call major BS

He didn't say WHAT he's towing...:wink:

Not that I have any business getting in between another infamous Buiz vs RTSE debate, but it's not the first time I've heard of an Excursion getting around those numbers while pulling a load. The one that comes to mind was a chipped 7.3L that was getting 18mpg pulling a 24ft enclosed ~8k lbs....at let's say "above the posted speed limit".

[samjannarone]

has some cool pictures of the solar project at their site in CA. This technology is already working, has been for a long time. As for nuclear, I have to admit I was arrested at a protest in Seabrook, NH in the 70's, but now live 15 miles away from Indian Point in NY. No problem. The nuclear navy seems to get along just fine too.

Just waiting for the post from Mr. X, asking everyone to guess what he's replacing the Ilmor with....is that a small containment structure under the hatch?????? Cooling towers?????? WTF, we are TOAST.

[ChromeGorilla]

I agree tripper... 20-22 while towing..... No way jose.:doh:

[Trueser]

wow we looking for another prop wash?

[Carl C]

MOP- You are right. Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) is 19,000,000acres, 10 times the size of Yellowstone. Preliminary reports are that there is enough oil there to supply all of the US's domestic needs for 30-40 years. No drilling though, bunny huggers won't let us. They say "we need to preserve it for future generations to enjoy". What the ****? Last year, 3500 people visited ANWR. Why preserve it if no one is enjoying it now? It has some mountains, but is really mosquito infested, un populated, no road area with a few birds. It is located due east of Prudhoe Bay. It was approved for drilling twice, once 2 weeks before the Valdez and again, two years ago. Both times, an oil spill shut it down.

Exxon was allowed to drill a test well there in 1997. They won't say what they found, but they want to go back so bad it is killing them.

There is a movement by two congressman to allow drilling if oil hits 125.00 a barrel for 5 straight days. We hit 123.00 today. I say, drill the hell out of it. Just so yous know, I have family in, and strong ties to Alaska and it is not Alaskan's who are against further oil exploration. This will provide jobs in Alaska and provide more income for the state and it's residents. It's either tree huggers in the lower 48 or something political. Of course Alaskan oil is not the whole answer but it would sure help.

[mjw930]

Just so yous know, I have family in, and strong ties to Alaska and it is not Alaskan's who are against further oil exploration. This will provide jobs in Alaska and provide more income for the state and it's residents. It's either tree huggers in the lower 48 or something political. Of course Alaskan oil is not the whole answer but it would sure help.

If you follow the link in THIS (http://www.donzi.net/forums/showpost.php?p=448987&postcount=5) post you can hear one person's view on the politics of Alaskan oil. I don't buy into most of what he says but if even 5% is true it's very interesting.

[Donziweasel]

There is one small village located in ANWR of about 100 people. This town is becoming deeply split over drilling. Some of them want it, some don't. The town will become rich beyond all comprehension, but the isolation of it will be compromised. It is becoming very bitter.

If I lived in Alaska, hell yeah drill. All Alaskans got back between 1000.00 and 2000.00 last year due to oil and gas subsidies. Free money in a way. Hmmmm....if I moved there, how would the Donzi run? The Pinzgauer would be nice to have.

I do have a freind there who is General Manager of Alyeska Ski Resort. In Decmber they have night skiing from 9:00 A.M. to 12:00, regular skiing from 12:00 till 12:45 and night skiing from 12:45 to 4:00. Not sure if I could deal with the lack of light.

Carl, I need some cash, print me up a few thousand will ya?

[mjw930]

Hmmmm....if I moved there, how would the Donzi run?

Pretty good for the 5 days a year you could run it :eek!:

Ok, maybe that's an exaggeration, make that 10 days........ Thing about it, cold air at sea level..... :wink:

[roadtrip se]

wow we looking for another prop wash?

Let's talk about synthetic versus dino oil... or car dealers. I don't have it in me for another prop discussion right now.

Buizilla, call BS all ya want, that is what she gets TYPICALLY and Handful has it right I said LOADED OR TOWING.

The 22? No way, I hit that with the 22 running 75-80, but if I slow down and don't shotgun start (less than 2000 rpms), darn close buddy, right between 19-20.

The 18? Easy money at reasonable speeds. 20+

Loaded up with no tow behind, below 70, and no shot gun starts? All day long. 20-22

So a righteous BITE ME back at ya and hope to see you at AOTH. Call me, when you make it to the neighborhood.

[Carl C]

I do have a freind there who is General Manager of Alyeska Ski Resort. In the summer you can ride the tram up and parasail or just take in the view. (these are pics of pics, so quality not so good)

[roadtrip se]

If you follow the link in THIS (http://www.donzi.net/forums/showpost.php?p=448987&postcount=5) post you can hear one person's view on the politics of Alaskan oil. I don't buy into most of what he says but if even 5% is true it's very interesting.

Take some time and watch this guy, if you want a chuckle. I burnt a little of my life and took a gander at it and just about spit my adult beverage out multiple times with laughter.

If you buy this, I have the infamous "100 MPG" carb out in the garage for a little fine tuning.

[Donziweasel]

Who knows? I think there are some facts there. I don't think there is enough there for 200 years like he says, but it is speculated that Alaska may have more oil than the entire Middle East combined. Most of it is simply off limits due to environmental issues, especailly ANWR. Prudhoe Bay is running out of oil. The pipeline use to move 1.5 million barrels a day at it's peak in the early 80's, now 400,000. Technology is helping th industry though to help off set environmental impact. It is said that oil companies can now drill massive well systems on 1/2 an acre. It use to be 10. They also have better recovery technology.

I live in a very environmentally sensitive area, so I am not saying drill everywhere there is oil at the expense of the environment. For example, the Wyoming Range, about an hour south of here is now said to have vast reserves. It will not be drilled because it is an environmentally sensitive area with habitat from Bears to Wolverines. The biggest reason is that 10,000's of people recreate there. No one really recreates in ANWR. No one on this board will ever go there. Let's say the US population is around 350 million. 3500 people visited ANWR. That is about .001 percent of the populations. I believe there are areas we should protect, but this has to balanced by areas we should drill. How do you protect one area and not another? I guess my idea of usage or visitorship would work. ANWR is a very desolate, unforgiving place with no real recreational impact. Drill that bastard and get gas under 2.00 a gallon! Of course the bunny huggers want you to believe that there is huge wildlife in the area. That is simply not true. It does have bear, both grizzly and polar, muskox, and a fairly large caribou herd. Other than the caribou, the other wildlife in not near as prolific. It also doesn't mean that oil drilling in a very responsible way will upset that balance. Also, most of the oil is though to be in area 1002, about 1.5 million acres on the costal plain. This is a very small area compared to the 19,000,000 acres ANRW encompasses.

Also, don't think bunny huggers play by the rules any more than oil companies. They have been caught time and again messing with studies and numbers for environmental impact. Here in Wyoming, the superintendent of Yellowstone had to resign over an snowmobile environmental impact study that the bunny huggers did. They lied there ass off and snowmobile policy was changed because of it. When the same study was performed by an independent source, it was found the bunny huggers had flat lied about their numbers and the study. The fallout was pretty big. This is only one example. Some of these people are nuttier than chinese chicken salad. In may ways, they play dirtier than big business, because it is not just for profit, it is a cause and nothing can stir emotions like a cause, whether it is environmental, religous, or political. To these people, anything justifies the end result.

[Carl C]

No one really recreates in ANWR. No one on this board will ever go there. Wanna bet, Bubba? Oh, wait, they took away our virtual bucks:(. I agree with everything else though. It's all been right on.

[Donziweasel]

Carl, if you have been to ANWR, then my hat is off to you, it is a very remote and hard to get to. Plus, it is vast and you are definetly on your own. I will say 3500 people annually is not what I would call a hot, tourist destination. Yellowstone does about 3.1 million and Yosemites over 4.

[Carl C]

Carl, if you have been to ANWR, then my hat is off to you, it is a very remote and hard to get to. Plus, it is vast and you are definetly on your own. I will say 3500 people annually is not what I would call a hot, tourist destination. Yellowstone does about 3.1 million and Yosemites over 4. I haven't been there yet but I will. You have to fly in. :hijack:

[gold-n-rod]

It's like the "back 40." If no one needs/wants/wishes to go there, then drill the muthafukka. "Oil to the people, right on."

Umm, I'm old and tipsy...... carry on!!!!!! :smash::smash::smash:

[mjw930]

Take some time and watch this guy, if you want a chuckle. I burnt a little of my life and took a gander at it and just about spit my adult beverage out multiple times with laughter.
If you buy this, I have the infamous "100 MPG" carb out in the garage for a little fine tuning.

Yes, I agree his conclusions are the ravings of a lunatic but there's enough of a smoking gun that I'm amazed reputable talking heads haven't taken up the cause.

Once people start paying $6.00 / gallon for milk, $4.00 for a dozen eggs and $6.00 / pound for ground beef in addition to $5.00 / gallon for gas the typically apathetic majority will tell the bunny huggers where they can stick their petitions.

Let's see how powerful OPEC is when their production is cut in half and oil is back at $60 / barrel and that's entirely possible if we develop ANWR.

[BUIZILLA]

I have the infamous "100 MPG" carb out in the garage for a little fine tuning. oh boyyyyyyyy, first you have a 7500# tank that gets 22 mpg towing 4,000#.. now that's an 11,500# load dude.. and now you have a 100 mpg carb in your back pocket... your quite the salesman...

okayyyyyyyyyyyy :doh: :wink: :propeller:

:nilly: :) :popcorn:

[onesubdrvr]

Ya know,...

I haven't complained about the gas prices yet, even though I think they are infllated, and we pamper too much to the oil companies.

I DO complain about the trickle down stuff. When you are feeding 7 people (5 of them kids), and go through 6 gallons of milk a week, you notice the difference. Milk has darn near doubled in the past 3 years, more of an increase than gas.

What really kills me though is the insurance and pharmaceutical companies, just another couple of issues to add to the fire when you have a large family like I do. I've got a PPO that I pay nearly $1700.00 a month for, my child care expenses last year totaled $21,000 and change. Put that with my co-pays, and out of pocket insurances expenses, and it adds up QUICK.

Children aren't cheap, and I know that, and will honestly say that they are one reason why I haven't gotten another Donzi yet (them and school). When my youngest turns 5 and is out of day-care, a new donzi will be on order. When I finish my school this year, I may start looking for a used Donzi.

Sorry for digressing, my point is that in the grand scheme of things, gas cost is the least of my worries.

Wayne
ps I drive a 5.9L Dodge Durango :wink: and don't tow a darn thing with it (right now)

[gold-n-rod]

Trade in dem kids for a Prius. 5 should get you one (especially if they are blonde/blue eyes)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :smash::smash::smash:

[onesubdrvr]

Trade in dem kids for a Prius. 5 should get you one (especially if they are blonde/blue eyes)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :smash::smash::smash:
Well, Momma won't let me get rid of the boy (blonde / blue) - as he's the only boy

The 4 year old is Daddy's girl (blonde / blue also)

The 7 year old is safe (not blonde / blue)

The 11 year old is safe (not blonde / blue)

The 13 year old,....hmm, pre-teen attitude :doh:, I wonder if they'll take just one :wink:

Wayne

[gcarter]

Just remember that to see a change, we'll need a change of atitude in Congress and that ain't gonna happen w/this crowd.
So far, it don't look promising.

[f_inscreenname]

I agree with about everything that has been said so far.
We need to drill in Alaska but we need to do it in a responsible way. But for some reason with our Government we either regulate the hell out of something until it dies or give it free pass to do anything it pleases. A simple middle ground is all that’s needed and we can have both oil and the land that’s over it. Got to keep it nice for the next generations. After the oil is gone and with global warming from using it, it may ending up being the next Disney World.
I’m the youngest at 39 and my sister is the oldest (I wouldn’t post her age but lets just say she was in collage before I went to school). I still remember her yellow “No Nukes” T shirt from back in the day. The last time I saw her she said, “they could take the pool out of the back yard and build it there if I could save on the heat bill.(she lives in Maine), The kids don’t use the damn thing anyway.”
I feel the same way and always have. But it also has to be kept a eye on. Nukes on civilian ships and the like. Not a chance. Pirates of Africa getting a hold of the stuff would not be a good thing.
Wind is OK but where do you put these massive things? No one likes them but the tourists as they pass. Maybe if they made them look like Holland’s windmills and put them on the shore. Who knows but I am sure they have their place.
I also think everyone should have a solar panel on their roof. If they were mass produced they would be cheap and simple enough for the everyday homeowner. I mean they would be at H/D with a simple clip for the roof and a wire to plug it in a outlet if the wanted. The key is that they don’t cause more harm then good when it’s time to dispose and replace them with new. Something the plug in and hybrid cars have not thought out. There isn’t much to recycle in a plastic car and the batteries……… And pluging your car in at home, like said before, it’s just passing the buck.
Coal can be burned clean. Especially black coal. It’s the brown coal that China is sitting on and burning in it’s 10th century plants that’s going to kill us all. No matter what we do in the USA the planet is doomed if we don’t take the lead for them and develop the technology that will clean it up. If this planet goes through another “industrial revolution” like it did from the 20’s to the 90’s with the US and Europe but this time it’s China and South America with all the same mistakes we made, it’s over and we cant stop it no matter what we do at home.

[Air 22]

$150 a barrel.....and its comming soon. After watching an interview with Exxon Mobile Exec's...one of the main problems they said was the future's price set on wallstreet and speculation in the media. If supply and demand were the only two factors to set the price...he said a barrel of oil would be $50-$60. That speaks volumes to how we are being had by investors etc. Like most other things the sad fact is its all media driven...a vicsious cycle of negative reports and bs that has the brainchilds on wallstreet buying gas futures for an price thats set on speculation...:shocking::eek!:

I also had a tool like "CHROME's post" make a comment while filling up my 22C while on the trailer...."I bet that gets great milage":nilly:...I replied "yep sure does especially at 70mph" with a big smile on my face...:wink::cool:

[roadtrip se]

oh boyyyyyyyy, first you have a 7500# tank that gets 22 mpg towing 4,000#.. now that's an 11,500# load dude.. and now you have a 100 mpg carb in your back pocket... your quite the salesman...
okayyyyyyyyyyyy :doh: :wink: :propeller:
:nilly: :) :popcorn:

I've checked it and 20-ish is the number after 28K miles. It is, what it is.

As for the 100MPG carb, my 84 year old grandfather brought this one up this weekend, and I just couldn't go there with him as much as I wanted to. People are so hungry for a conspiracy theory, but forget that business and captialisim drive technology improvements, not the government and regulation.

The other one I like is the all of the rumbles of a Prius getting 80+MPG,
but the government is keeping this technology from the people due to big oil interests. We all know dang well that the benevolent Toyota would use this kind of technology to crush their competitors in a heart beat, if they had it.

Alaska. Just get out of the way, let the oil interests drill and take the risks, and keep an enviro eye on them. I bet if it is a bust, nobody will be there to bail them out. If it is a gusher, everybody including our lovely government will be taking credit and trying to get their hands in the pie.

[Air 22]

The other one I like is the all of the rumbles of a Prius getting 80+MPG



:shocking:Toyota Motor faced with a rising yen and a weaker U.S. consumer and dollar, reported a 28% drop in net income for the fiscal fourth quarter.
The Japanese automaker said Thursday that it expects its current fiscal year profit to drop 27%, which would be its first annual profit decline in several years.

Shares of Toyota were recently trading down $4.63, or 4.4%, to $100.13.

Toyota saw its profit for the quarter fall to 316.8 billion yen ($3.05 billion) from 440 billion yen. Sales rose 3.8% in the most recent quarter to 6.567 trillion yen ($63.14 billion).

[Donziweasel]

New high this morning- 125.00 a barrel. Drill ANWR!

http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/09/markets/oil.ap/index.htm?cnn=yes

"Investors view commodities such as oil as a hedge against inflation, and some analysts think the dollar's protracted decline is the main reason behind oil prices doubling from a year ago. Also, a weaker dollar makes oil cheaper to investors overseas.

A prediction by analysts at Goldman Sachs seeing oil rising as high as $150 to $200 a barrel within two years also has boosted prices.

Analysts, however, struggled to explain the continued rise of oil futures after a larger-than-expected buildup of crude oil stocks reported Wednesday in the United States."

"Abdalla Salem El-Badri on Thursday reiterated his position that oil supplies are adequate, and that there is no need for the cartel to boost production. He said several Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries oil projects are coming on line, but he noted that several member countries are having a hard time finding buyers for their additional supplies."

This is not supply and demand.

[gcarter]

Back in'80 while still living in Houston, I had a friend who was an oil trader (someone who traded large amounts of one type of petrochemical for someone elses other type of petrochemical) who asked me along for a visit to an elderly man who was looking for a buyer for 40,000 acres of land w/mineral rights located inbetween three other parcels of land being worked by three of the majors. The other parcels were being flooded w/water to help oil production. The idea was that this offered parcel was being benefitted from the activity of the other three parcels.
Oil in '80 was $40.00/barrel. The sellers arguement was that w/very little investment, the buyer would be able to pump all the oil he could @ $40.00/barrel w/no end in sight. It was a compelling arguement because everyone at the time believed sincerely there was no end in sight. Our 2008 price of oil has only recently exceeded that $40.00/barrel price.
Well, as we all know now, there was an end in sight and within 18 months oil was half of that. Then in '97 (I think) several SE Asian economies colapsed and oil eventually fell to $9.00/barrel (remember gas @ $.75/gallon?).
History has a habit of repeating itself, and I believe this is no exception. Ya just gotta be patient.

[Donziweasel]

George, I agree 1000%

[mjw930]

I just hope it's not our economies collapse that spurs this correction.