Hot Shots Raylar install with CMI's

[Brian41]

For those of you that do not know Micks boat here is what we started with 2002 22 Classic.

[Brian41]

Raylar kit and CMI exhaust. I had to modify all the brakets and redo the entire wiring harness to relocate the ECM to the back of the engine. Ray at Raylar told Mick that it was about a 19 hour install to this point I have 55 hours in it but that includes the CMI install.

[Dr. Dan]

:smash: Brian very cool, I know there are 2 versions, what are the Horseppwer and Torque numbers like with each option?

Just curious.... Looks great...

Doc of the Bay :angel:

[ITTLFLI]

Looking good! I can't wait to see it at AOTH!!

[Air 22]

Looks Nice.:wink:..Looking fwd to the numbers it will post:cool:

Any eng weight loss from the original 496HO?

[Brian41]

I would have like to have done a before and after dyno run but my dyno is not yet operational. I need about a week off to finish it but this time of years it is not going to happen as I have 5 engines in house to finish now and I am a 1 man show for about 6 weeks now. I should be installing the engine Tuesday and water testing Wednsday. :nilly:

[Brian41]

Looks Nice.:wink:..Looking fwd to the numbers it will post:cool:

Any eng weight loss from the original 496HO?

I think that the savings in weight from the heads got put back on with the CMI's but we were told the HP numbers should increase by 40 or so over the stock exhaust with this kit.

[Carl C]

I think that the savings in weight from the heads got put back on with the CMI's but we were told the HP numbers should increase by 40 or so over the stock exhaust with this kit. The CMIs didn't give me much help at all on the stock engine but should work well with your package. I'm anxious to see what you gain when you get it running and dialed in.:alligator

[undertaker]

Looks sweet...keep us posted on the water test results.....:hyper::hyper:

[Cuda]

Is that boat going to be at Cumberland? If so, can you make Catch the "Queen of Cumberland"? Last year, when I called him after he got back from AOTH, he answered the phone "King of Cumberland", so I made him an appropriate crown. I'd love to make him another one that says "Queen of Cumberland".:)

Btw, the engine looks fantastic.

[hot shot]

Sorry Cuda: I don't think i'll have anything for catch this year that is one bad 22, He gave me a thrill in it last year..
I can't wait to see what it will have once we get it proped

[BigGrizzly]

Mick great job!!! You told Brian to post those beautiful pictures just to make me jealous. Don't forget the shirt.

[catch 22]

Is that boat going to be at Cumberland? If so, can you make Catch the "Queen of Cumberland"? Last year, when I called him after he got back from AOTH, he answered the phone "King of Cumberland", so I made him an appropriate crown. I'd love to make him another one that says "Queen of Cumberland".:)
Btw, the engine looks fantastic.
Cuda, Your KILLING ME with the King + Queen crap.:) Hot shot don't pay any mind to cuda he likes to STIR the pot!!!!!!!. Btw The boat + engine looks SWEET.:thumbsup: See you in a week:yes:

[roadtrip se]

are showing this year at AOTH, so Jim may have his hands full.
I hear a few of those buggers are pretty potent.

I would leave the burger king crown at home, unless you really have some guts.

Then there is the Viper boat. Paging Mr. X, Mr. X, please report.

Mick, get her done and on down to the lake, so we can see what she does. Beautiful package.

[Sam]

Nice pipes Mick :eek!:, looks like a good package. Hope to see ya at AOTH.

Sam

[FISHIN SUCKS]

Looks wicked Mick! Now you may need to get one of those hydraulic steering set-ups if you're packin' some HP! See you down in KY!

tom

[Cuda]

Cuda, Your KILLING ME with the King + Queen crap.:) Hot shot don't pay any mind to cuda he likes to STIR the pot!!!!!!!. Btw The boat + engine looks SWEET.:thumbsup: See you in a week:yes:
Somebody has to stir the pot for you, otherwise, your food will burn. :)

[Cuda]

are showing this year at AOTH, so Jim may have his hands full.
I hear a few of those buggers are pretty potent.
I would leave the burger king crown at home, unless you really have some guts.
Then there is the Viper boat. Paging Mr. X, Mr. X, please report.
Mick, get her done and on down to the lake, so we can see what she does. Beautiful package.
Maybe so, but they'd have to do it, before they could claim it.
Btw, the next 22C I hear about passing Catch up, will be the first one I've heard of. He said Byron gave him the best run last year. and to quote Catch he said that Byron's engine had a huge engine in it. You'd have to hear it on the phone to appreciate how he said huge. It made me bust out laughing, because it sounded just like a friend of mine describing an over weight woman. "She was a huge (insert you own noun). :)

Keep in mind, Catch is running what I call his "Junior Achiever" 454. It's not even a 502.

[Cuda]

Btw, Jimmy called me this evening, and jumped on me for stirring the chit for him. I knew that crown picture would do it.:)

Before you call me Jimmy, you're welcome.:eek!::smash: :)

[Trueser]

If we can just figure out what PROP he needs to run...

[Cuda]

If we can just figure out what PROP he needs to run...
He needs a prop designed to cut channels in sandbars.:shocker:

[hot shot]

The motor is going back in today... Hope to have the drive on and fire it tomorrow. Just have to finish wiring the new k planes, button up the ziger hyd steering, put the imco shortie on and go play... The problem is they are calling for rain for the next 3 days, But what do they know

[mrfixxall]

:smash: Brian very cool, I know there are 2 versions, what are the Horseppwer and Torque numbers like with each option?
Just curious.... Looks great...
Doc of the Bay :angel:

doc looks to me like the 525 version:) It reads HO 525 on the intake.

[hot shot]

Yep it is 425 hp version i'm not sure of the torque but i'm pretty sure it matches the hp or better... i have forgotten but raylar has a pretty kool web site www.raylarengine.com (http://www.raylarengine.com) and it gives all the spec's ray told me the cmi's add another 40 or so hp :checkered:

[undertaker]

How did the test run go yesterday......:nilly::nilly::nilly:

[LKSD]

Mick, the boat is looking good. I think you will be happy with it. I am currently doing a Zeiger system on a clients Donzi currntly as well.. It is a nice set up.

I think you will like what your 22c will do for you. I remember you called me whe you sold the 18 because of what it would have taken to get you where you wanted to be.. I also remeber that you said if you buddy couldnt do the stuff for you on the 22 that you would have driven it here for the work.. So far it looks like he is treating you right.. ;)

As far as the labor time on the Raylar kit.. That like most other MFG's is usually not inline with real world scenarios.. That said The classics are also usually a real pain in the a$$ to do as the space is quite limited in the engine comp to allow most any work..

We did a custom Whipple kit on our 496 in my 26zx Donzi & I am quite please with it, However the excessive prop testing due to the substantial increased torque has been time consuming.. If I didnt go that route we too would have probably done the raylar kit.. Again the Raylar kit should be a nice fit in the classic as it isnt that heavy of a boat & it already scoots out of the box..

Hopefully we will get to run with you one of these days.. :)

Jamie / Lakeside Restorations

[Carl C]

I talked to hot shot today and he's having trouble getting the CMIs to line up. Blueliner and myself both had the same trouble but mine wasn't as bad.

[hot shot]

sorry dr dan it is the 525 version and the cmi's i guess add approx 40 more hp and i did talk to carl c the port pipe is a good 1 1/4 off and the starboard is about an inch... I have a very good guy on the job and we'll figure it out right before he goe's out of his mind... the tabs were a good fit... the zieger steering is an awsome set up i think brian may start installing those over some of the past systems but the raylar kit and the cmi's have been a nightmare.... no such thing as plug and play.. i think he had two days in redoing the wire harness... but man it is beutiful and looks totally factory. I can't wait to show you guys.... but there has been a struggle at every corner..... hope to have some numbers soon Mick:mad:

[Carl C]

sorry dr dan it is the 525 version and the cmi's i guess add approx 40 more hp and i did talk to carl c the port pipe is a good 1 1/4 off and the starboard is about an inch... I have a very good guy on the job and we'll figure it out right before he goe's out of his mind... the tabs were a good fit... the zieger steering is an awsome set up i think brian may start installing those over some of the past systems but the raylar kit and the cmi's have been a nightmare.... no such thing as plug and play.. i think he had two days in redoing the wire harness... but man it is beutiful and looks totally factory. I can't wait to show you guys.... but there has been a struggle at every corner..... hope to have some numbers soon Mick:mad: Order that good silicone hose. You can maybe get it next day air. Mine was at least an inch off but looks good when together. Like I told you, I had to cut the bottoms of the Y pipes. And cut the inserts if you want to use the Q&Q. CMI told me to do that.

[hot shot]

anyone know who make the silicone hose or were i could buy it my cell 734 516 1242 i'm running out of time

[LKSD]

We sell it. However I dont stock it.. I could order it & have it available for early next week or possibly have it drop shipped from our supplier to you dependig on what all you need.. Feel free to call me if you are still looking for it. :)

Jamie / Lakeside Restorations 570-639-2628

[Carl C]

Call Viking Terminal Marine at 732-238-9434 (NJ). The hose will be "drop-shipped" direct from the factory. The factory is Trident Rubber in PA. The factory will not sell direct. With shipping you will pay $143 for 3'. Mine took 5 days to arrive. If you explain your situation they should be able to rush it to you. This stuff is softer than a baby's butt and you will be able to easily hold it in position while someone inserts the exh tips. 1 1/4 inch misalignment will be no problem. If the exh is too high, make sure the Y pipe is not bottoming against the lower through prop tube like mine did. Viking's part # is TRI 202V4000-36 "4 inch blue silicone high temp hose- 3 foot piece".

edit: Jamie, I didn't read your whole post. I'm not trying to steer business from you. Just trying to get hot shot running quick so he can make AOTH. Now he has 2 options to try.

[LKSD]

That price for the stick is extremely cheap.. Are you sure that is a current $$ ? It usually goes for around 200 for a 4" diameter 3' long stick..

ANyway, Just my opinion, but I think that the hump style hose though would work better for him if his system doesnt line up like it should.. The hump hoses are about 7.25" long & have more flex built in..

:) Jamie

[Carl C]

That price for the stick is extremely cheap.. Are you sure that is a current $$ ? It usually goes for around 200 for a 4" diameter 3' long stick..

ANyway, Just my opinion, but I think that the hump style hose though would work better for him if his system doesnt line up like it should.. The hump hoses are about 7.25" long & have more flex built in..

:) Jamie Yes, current price. This was 2 months ago. The actual price from Trident was $91. It was blacked out on the invoice but I can still read it. I just tried to take a pic of mine but you can't really even see the misalignment now. With the black hose it looked a mile off and I had to back out all the header bolts as far as possible, fanagle the tips in and tighten the bolts. When I installed the new hose to allow flexing it was very easy to assemble. I had asked about the ribbed hose here and the opinion was that it would just trap water. I think he will be OK with the straight hose, it's very easy to work with. Jamie, I'm not trying to call you out on price or anything and you sponsor this site. I hope you can fix up hot shot. He needs to get the boat running NOW in order to get it dialed in for AOTH.

[LKSD]

Carl I know your not calling me out.. & if I can be of service I will.. The hump hose btw is not the ribbed or wire bound. It looks like =O= so that it can flex more for mis-aligned componets than the straight silicone hose stick without the wire.. Also the blue silicone seems to be more flexible than the black.. :)

Jamie / Lakeside

[Brian41]

I fixed the problem today by modifying the deverters and got a perfect fit I will post pics tomarrow after water test.

[roadtrip se]

I talked to a very unhappy and frustrated Mick two nights ago.

I'm glad to hear it is coming together. We have a bunch of props to try on this rig.

So Brian, are you coming down to Cumberland to enjoy a little of the fruits of labor? Would like to meet you, as I am sure others here would too...

[BigGrizzly]

Mick is going to be a busy boy, I think that Todd and I are going to be his new best friends

[Carl C]

I fixed the problem today by modifying the deverters and got a perfect fit I will post pics tomarrow after water test. I'd be interested in seeing what you did. It seems that everyone who installed CMIs had trouble and had to do some cutting.

[Dr. Dan]

:smash: Just as a point of information - after checking with the Builder of my Engine as a resource for the Blue Silicone Hose he suggested that anything beyond a 1/2" should go to the "Hump Hose" Jamie is referring to, although you can make anything work.... it's not designed or engineered for that much "Offset" so FYI.

And its nutz expensive... truth is I have not heard of anyone doing any Header System, CMI's or Dana or whoever ... without running into some issues... especially if they are try to incorporate the Silent Choice System as well. So plan accordingly, measure Twice and add a Week or more to get it done, it's still gonna be a tight schedule, everything always combines to add to yet another issue... that creates another .... that creates... BOAT$$$$.

Living the Dream Baby!

Doc of Circumvented Budgets - I'm A Boat Owner... :eek!:

[Cuda]

:smash: Just as a point of information - after checking with the Builder of my Engine as a resource for the Blue Silicone Hose he suggested that anything beyond a 1/2" should go to the "Hump Hose" Jamie is referring to, although you can make anything work.... it's not designed or engineered for that much "Offset" so FYI.
And its nutz expensive... truth is I have not heard of anyone doing any Header System, CMI's or Dana or whoever ... without running into some issues... especially if they are try to incorporate the Silent Choice System as well. So plan accordingly, measure Twice and add a Week or more to get it done, it's still gonna be a tight schedule, everything always combines to add to yet another issue... that creates another .... that creates... BOAT$$$$.
Living the Dream Baby!
Doc of Circumvented Budgets - I'm A Boat Owner... :eek!:
I had to go to a muffler shop, and have him make me some metel elbows to come out where the stock holes were. I'm sure I could have bent some rubber hose in there, but I'm also sure, it would have burned holes through the hose, at that very spot. I think it cost me about $90 to have the elbows fabricated. I went from stock log exhaust, to Dana.

[Dr. Dan]

I had to go to a muffler shop, and have him make me some metel elbows to come out where the stock holes were. I'm sure I could have bent some rubber hose in there, but I'm also sure, it would have burned holes through the hose, at that very spot. I think it cost me about $90 to have the elbows fabricated. I went from stock log exhaust, to Dana.

Joe when I did the HP500 we ordered Custom Tails, they had to ship them 3 times till they came out right... now its one of the first things I look at when someone does a Repower or adds Headers... it's definitely an unsung PIA.:tase::banghead:

I am sure Brian and Mick will do it right... I saw Micks 18 a few years back... it was memorable to say the least.

Keeping my fingers crossed for them both to see the 22 in Cumberland.:thumbsup::thewave::clap:

Doc of Gaseous Commentary :toilet:

[Brian41]

Just got back from prop testing best speed was 81.3 but that was with current it ran 79.3 going against it runnig a stock 28 BravoI 4 blade but it was on the rev limiter. The 27 Mirage plus might have been faster in same conditions but was on the rev limiter at 3/4 throttle. The only 30 I have is left Merc labbed and we did not bring it. We have a few small issues to work out one off the new Eddie marine tab lines decided to fail about 4 inches from the fiitting to make a mess in the bilge, a small leak on the port collector and it is running very rich on the big end but that could be from running on the rev limiter as it was even black under the tabs. Here are some pics. Brian

[Brian41]

Some more

[Brian41]

And water spots are after the run pics we ran it with no hatch.

[Cuda]

Impressive numbers right out of the box!:cool:

[undertaker]

I see you have different exhaust tips from the previous pictures....any reason for that...just curious..


Nice early numbers....with more prop testing and seat time you should have a great running 22....looking forward to seeing it @ cumberland:):)


Undertaker:pimp:

[Dr. Dan]

Impressive numbers right out of the box!:cool:

I agree.... That is a Purty Looking Motor Ya Gots Thar Boy! I love tham Eye Talian Boats...

Todd will be depressed for a month... with 81 out of the Box... with or without current. Plan on him coaching you to death at Cumberland... in between burning Animal Carcass, having my Kocktails and consulting you on the preverbial performance and Behavior Traits of the Bull Weavel and the Shorty as Applied to Fuid Dynamics in a man made Reservoir in May! :spongebob:

Very Cool, make sure you shoot or post Big Griz what ya want him to bring for Props.... + Rooster Boy has all of those Low Horsepower Props he can't turn in his Anemic Evil Twin Classic... you might as well test them ... cuz he won't be needing them til 2010 or more at the Rate he's going.

Looks great Brian & Mick, lined up about perfect with the Custom Work... good luck.... looks really awesome... I am psyched to see yet another Red Boat kick Somervilles butt to the curb. :beer:

Hope it all continues to come together...

Doc of Antagonistic Foreplay With Roosters :drive:

[roadtrip se]

Now get her down down to the lake. Conditions are perfect for some break in runs and testing. Forget the 27, lets go to the 29 mirage plus.

Dan, please anticipate greasing the hinges on that rusty wallet, because you will need it when I am done with the next "upgrade" round.... Keeper of the water-dynamically-superior hull and drive combo, together with some serious trash talking ability.

[LKSD]

If the 28 B1 was not enough to keep it out of the limiter he will probably need 30B1 the 29 Mirage+ would be too small.. :)

All of these hulls can test out a little different at times in my experiences. However, My guess is that now due to the increased drive height with a shorty that the B1 is working well, a Hydromotive may also work nicley. The 4 blade over the 3 may catch nicley on the higher drive without making it too sticky in the water and yet allow it to accelerate a little harder.. ;)

Jamie / Lakeside Restorations

[Dr. Dan]

Now get her down down to the lake. Conditions are perfect for some break in runs and testing. Forget the 27, lets go to the 29 mirage plus.
Dan, please anticipate greasing the hinges on that rusty wallet, because you will need it when I am done with the next "upgrade" round.... Keeper of the water-dynamically-superior hull and drive combo, together with some serious trash talking ability.

Oh Great Bucket Breath & Evil Twin... I actually anticipated such a response, in fact I spoke to IMCO last week to price out the next most important peice of Hardware that will likely get added to my little Kayak. And its not pretty.... now I totally understand why you are such a Self Absorbed and Angry Man... those IMCO parts are pricey.... preparing to fry some Vipers, Hawks, Birds , Twigs, and whatever the hell else I end up running over... come on Lottery! :wavey:

Maybe I'll just sell the boat and buy the Drive...Hmmm....

Doc of Throw Down Slam Motivated Bench Racing & Anticipated BS :spongebob:

[BUIZILLA]

Doc, leave that F'n boat alone.. :wink:

[Dr. Dan]

Doc, leave that F'n boat alone.. :wink:

:smash: I'm just having some Rooster Fun... calm down... its just getting some regular maint. done.... Tune, Etc., I have not touched a thing... its still a slow hydrodynamically challenged King Cobra... honest! :smash:

My next investment is gonna be of a 4 Wheel variety... Vette or a GT500 Shelby... so I'll just have to be happy going slow on the water... I'll try to get used to it, I'm sure Todd can counsel me on his experience...especially from sitting on the beach or riding in everyone elses Boat after this year.:spongebob:

Doc of Anticipated Land Donzi :wavey:

[hot shot]

as brian said we got the exhaust done right, that seems like the only way he knows how to do stuff... but as we all know perfection comes with a price .. i'm thinking mabe mid 80's proped right... thank you jamie, carl and mr road trip for all of your advice, todd did offer me some coaching on my new up grades and i am going to take him up on the offer.. after all he the shorty king isn't he ?

[undertaker]

as brian said we got the exhaust done right, that seems like the only way he knows how to do stuff... but as we all know perfection comes with a price .. i'm thinking mabe mid 80's proped right... thank you jamie, carl and mr road trip for all of your advice, todd did offer me some coaching on my new up grades and i am going to take him up on the offer.. after all he the shorty king isn't he ?


mr road trip for all of your advice, todd did offer me some coaching on my new up grades and i am going to take him up on the offer.. after all he the shorty king isn't he ?[/QUOTE

NO.......:nilly::nilly::hyper::hyper::eek!::eek!:. ...He doesn't run his 22 classic anymore....:smash::smash:......u better talk to Dr. Dan:eek!::eek!:


Undertaker:hangum:

[undertaker]

All hijacking aside....Mick boat looks and runs great..I will be looking VERY close at your ride in cumberland hope you don"t mind..:):)


Undertaker

[Trueser]

I think we need to have a cross on an empty slip (just like you see on the road).

Missing from the red boat club.

sorry Todd.


Mick can't wait to get some pictures of you smiling face running that bad boy.

[BigGrizzly]

As for the exhaust,I think it maybe be a 496 Donzi issue. I have installed several sets on 454, 502 and 496 on brand X boats with no issue!

[hot shot]

undertaker: i got so much flack with those pipes i just had to get the shorter ones... i thought they would be a good conversation piece but got sick of the ribbing my buddies gave me... but man doe's that thing sound good almost as good as byron's.. and acceleration is awsom.. and per the shorty king i am gonna try it with out the drive shower at lake cumberland he said it cost him about 4 mph... i hope he is right:eek!::eek!::eek!:

[BigGrizzly]

Mick, I have the long pipes and don't give a dam what people say. I actually had the tips made especially for me 5 years ago, and got so many good compliments, that some are requesting them from CMI. Have props and will travel!

[BUIZILLA]

I hear we may have a new Sandbagger...

[roadtrip se]

At least we are throwing crap around, as opposed to coaching someone on how to get some pipes in the boat, before the big rally.

I would imagine the infamous Catch 22 will be another source of good, long term shortie experience next week, too.

If the boat is truly making the HP that it should be, then mid-80's should be a stroll in the park!

And yes, I am asking for a ride, offering access to my prop arsenal even if they are all too small according to the experts here, and a couple of driving tips if wanted, because DANG IT, I want a ride!

No pride, no glory, no man card, no boat, and no rest... keep it coming, keep it coming....

[BUIZILLA]

No pride, no glory, no man card, no boat, and no rest... keep it coming, keep it coming.... hey, look on the bright side, you own the only chunk of oil burner using ULSD and getting 22 mpg while towing a boat... think how much better that would be if you used the old fuel.. :doh: :propeller: you might have hit 25 mpg... what would the naysayers think then... throw that boy a liferaft for his dormant kayak.. :pimp:

[Cuda]

Maybe I'll just sell the boat and buy the Drive...Hmmm....
:
Lol! I've felt that way more than once! :)

[Cuda]

hey, look on the bright side, you own the only chunk of oil burner using ULSD and getting 22 mpg while towing a boat... .. :pimp:
I'm not sure what ULSD is, but I assume it's some kind of diesel powered truck. I could get up to 20 mpg, on my '05 F350 TD, if it was empty, I was running the interstate at 70, but no matter what boat I towed, I don't think I ever saw over 14, if that much. It didn't matter if it was the heavy ass Formula, the 22C, the Minx, or my fishboat, I'd usually see around 13 and some change. Because the weight didn't seem to matter, I assume it was the wind resistance. I hauled 3700 pounds of tile from Orlando, to Tampa, in my '02 F250 TD, and got just a tick under 18.

[BUIZILLA]

Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel

not mileage friendly...

[BigGrizzly]

Micl I have a 28, 29 and a 30 Txp plus some 4 blades I will being. Catch turns a labbed 30 Hydro and has a CNC from throttle Up and they are only a little more then twice as much as a TXP. We will get you handled. My personal opinion is Stay away from that M+ of Trips it turns you loose in a hurry without warning! Remember rhe Bravo1 props run a pitch short in other words When I turn a bravo 30 it relates to my 28 lightning and TXP. Remember with out handling there is no speed!!!

[hot shot]

tanks griz.... you da man... i"ll bring the adapter and the prop wrench.. probably mess with some of mr shorty's stuff on thurs

[Air 22]

:wink:
Micl I have a 28, 29 and a 30 Txp plus some 4 blades I will being. Catch turns a labbed 30 Hydro and has a CNC from throttle Up and they are only a little more then twice as much as a TXP. We will get you handled. My personal opinion is Stay away from that M+ of Trips it turns you loose in a hurry without warning! Remember rhe Bravo1 props run a pitch short in other words When I turn a bravo 30 it relates to my 28 lightning and TXP. Remember with out handling there is no speed!!!



FYI... on the BRAVO Props...Labbed Versions are avail in incremental pitch sizes..ie 26, 27, 28,etc... When running a Mercury Racing labbed BRAVO One Prop the size say a 28pitch is comparable to a non labbed Bravo One prop of 27 or one pitch down...Standard Bravo props are even sizes only ie 26, 28, 30 etc..Source...of info..Mercury Racing Propellers and hands:smash: on experience...Dunno if a labbed prop is what you are looking for or considering?...but IMO they are worth every cent!!! :wink: atleast try one and see what u think..maybe u will like it... maybe not...but thats half the fun try'n them all out....:smash::cool: