1st outing with the shorty

[osur866]

As some of you know I decided to put a -2 shorty on my 18. 1st thing I noticed is I need a bigger prop which I knew allready but all in all too soon to tell but I think I'm gonna like it. All I had to use prop wise was a 25p mirage + which I easily spun to the rev limiter, in fact I lost about 1 mph which i'm sure is do to higher slip#'s. Also noticed a little propising between 25-35mph but settled down after that, the boat runs much flater and when trimming up past 1/4 would loose grip, Also chine walk settled a bit as well IMO due to running more flat. Looking forward to AOTH to test some different props and see what happens. Steve

[Pismo]

Sounds good, should work well once dialed in.

[MOP]

The right wheel will put a Chit eating grin on your puss!

[Air 22]

As some of you know I decided to put a -2 shorty on my 18. 1st thing I noticed is I need a bigger prop which I knew allready but all in all too soon to tell but I think I'm gonna like it. All I had to use prop wise was a 25p mirage + which I easily spun to the rev limiter, in fact I lost about 1 mph which i'm sure is do to higher slip#'s. Also noticed a little propising between 25-35mph but settled down after that, the boat runs much flater and when trimming up past 1/4 would loose grip, Also chine walk settled a bit as well IMO due to running more flat. Looking forward to AOTH to test some different props and see what happens. Steve


Thanks for the info:wink:..I have a buddy that is planning the same for his 18...Keep us posted on your numbers and Prop selection..Have fun @ AOTHIII should be a blast:cool::drive::thumbsup::beer:

[BUIZILLA]

needs a 24 Turbo

[blackhawk]

needs a 24 Turbo

I would think that's going in the wrong direction since he's banging the limiter with a 25 M+.

After raising the propshaft it's not unusual to have to go up a size or two on your prop.

[BUIZILLA]

a 24 turbo has more blade area, it'll suck the motor right down..

[mjw930]

a 24 turbo has more blade area, it'll suck the motor right down..

Ah, no it doesn't, at least not the 3 blade Turbo 1 vs. Mirage+.

He needs get a 4 blade to work better with the raised drive.

I would try:

24" Revolution 4
24" TXP 4 blade
24" or 25" Hydromotive Q4-X
24" Bravo 1

That should get our slip numbers back in line. You may have to go up to 26" but typically you drop down at least 1" when you go to 4 blade. The first 2 will give you more bow lift. The Hydro Q4-X has substantial rake too but I think the Revolution 4 is where your sweet spot will be between slip and lift.

[BUIZILLA]

the last 5 boats I had, reacted like I stated..

good luck

been there done that, with an 18, and a raised drive, and 4 years playing with it ....

[mjw930]

the last 5 boats I had, reacted like I stated..

good luck

been there done that, with an 18, and a raised drive, and 4 years playing with it ....

So, you're saying you had to drop to a 24" turbo from a 25" Mirage Plus?

Doesn't make sense but hey, stranger things have happened.

[BUIZILLA]

So, you're saying you had to drop to a 24" turbo from a 25" Mirage Plus? I didn't say *I* had to drop anything :cool: ... my experience has been whatever Merc prop you have, the closest Turbo will be one ADVERTISED size smaller, sometimes two sizes.. for that boat a 24 TXP is an overall better choice for starters, it won't like the round ear maybe... you can up my personal boat count to 11, and 16 engines I have run/tested Turbo's on... I probably don't know what i'm doing though :wink:

18 Donzi
20 Donzi
22 Donzi
30 Scarab twin 225
17 Mako 150
32 Intrepid twin 225
25 Contender twin 225
25 Contender twin 200
25 Contender twin 150
20 Oceanic 225
18 Wellcraft 150

[roadtrip se]

but the TXP would be. I recomended the 25 pitch as a good starting point, when I talked with Steve about this a couple of weeks ago.

Reason for the dif? Turbo isn't hardened and the TXP is. By the way, you can't get a 24 TXP. I would not run the Turbo at the risk of throwing a blade with the shortened X dim.

As for the four blades, this is chapter two. The boat is going to run best with a three blade and then the Hydros and Bravos come next. I had a ball running a highly modified Bravo 28 on my shortie boat last summer.

As for the resume, I have bought, run, and sold a bunch of performance boats too! Not to mention about 200 hours running a shortie on a Classic hull with every imaginable prop combo.

How about we go back to talking about car dealers now? Seems less controversial.

[samjannarone]

has a few opinions about props....

[osur866]

I figured I'd get several opinions on this one, thank you for the replies, I have a good idea of where to start and go from there, Mop hope your right about that big grin :wink: so far the few mods have not netted me much in top end but handling at WOT has improved greatly with the same prop so with the right one I hope to be happy even if that requires 2 props, 1 for top end and another for all around handling which what will probably be what happens, A 3 blade for top end and possibly a 4 blade for handling, but need some time and different props to try. Steve

[zimm17]

I went through this same thing with my 22. I could barely get on plane with my mirage 25p and full tabs down.

Try a hydromotive Q-IV and a Turbo Fusion 4. I did at AOTH and bought the Fusion- it worked best for my shorty. Make sure you take notes not only on top speed/max rpm, but also midrange cruise- I got 7mph higher at 3500rpm with the fusion over the hydro.

I didn't try the TXP- Randy said it would go 3mph faster but handle really loose. I'd rather be glued to the water- it's crazy enough at 86mph.

[Cuda]

I run a three blade 24 Turbo on my 22, with Trs, and 330 horse. It runs right at the rpm it should, and no ill handling effects. Don't know if this means anything, or not, but people in China duck, when I go over them with that Trs. :)

[mjw930]

I didn't say *I* had to drop anything :cool: ... my experience has been whatever Merc prop you have, the closest Turbo will be one ADVERTISED size smaller, sometimes two sizes.. for that boat a 24 TXP is an overall better choice for starters, it won't like the round ear maybe... you can up my personal boat count to 11, and 16 engines I have run/tested Turbo's on... I probably don't know what i'm doing though :wink:

18 Donzi
20 Donzi
22 Donzi
30 Scarab twin 225
17 Mako 150
32 Intrepid twin 225
25 Contender twin 225
25 Contender twin 200
25 Contender twin 150
20 Oceanic 225
18 Wellcraft 150

I didn't know we were resume dropping here?

I agree that Turbo's are pretty good props but there are other props out there that have hit the market since you were testing. The Revolution 4 comes to mind and I'd love to see some real world data on these with Classics, both normal and raised X.

What confused me in your original post was no mention of TXP, it just said 24 Turbo. Also considering that you can't get a 24" TXP but you can get a 24" Turbo 1 it would seem there's some ambiguity here so you can understand my confusion.

[on_plane]

FWIW You can get a turbo txp 24p, at boatownersworld.com -

Just bought a 23p txp from them but found it dropped my revs considerably, about 800 rpm ( 4400 max) from a merc 21 cleaver ( 5000 max)...so I am going to try a 21p turbo one as it is a smaller diameter. The txp handled great on the 18 vs the cleaver but the blade area I think is way bigger and couldnt push it.


Engine is a stock 300hp tempest on a 86 18 alpha w/ nosecone

Paul

[mjw930]

FWIW You can get a turbo txp 24p, at boatownersworld.com -

Just bought a 23p txp from them but found it dropped my revs considerably, about 800 rpm ( 4400 max) from a merc 21 cleaver ( 5000 max)...so I am going to try a 21p turbo one as it is a smaller diameter. The txp handled great on the 18 vs the cleaver but the blade area I think is way bigger and couldnt push it.


Engine is a stock 300hp tempest on a 86 18 alpha w/ nosecone

Paul

Paul,

From what I'm told even though they show it on the site getting one is the problem.

I was told by Poodle and others that pitch for pitch the TXP was about 200 - 400 RPM lower than the Turbo 1. Your observation pretty much confirms that.

I was going to do a lot of prop testing but the 23P Turbo 1 works so well on my 22C with the stock 7.4L that it would be a waste of time and money. I get a solid midrange cruise, 40 MPH at around 3000 RPM and a top end that is right around 9% slip (62.5 MPH GPS @ 4700 RPM). It doesn't get any better than that with this power.

[on_plane]

I guess I am lucky that I didn't need to go up in pitch then, I just assumed they had them available.

My dad has a 22c trs 330 stock that we put a 23p turbo 1 on and are seeing the same numbers as you, I agree it doesnt get too much better with that kind of power, the boat gained speed and max rpms stayed the same on that boat when it wnet from a 23p cleaver to the turbo 1 .

Turbo is a great company to deal with as well I have found.

Paul

[roadtrip se]

Resumes be dammed, if this thing exists I want to try one on the Scorpion boat.

Paging Chris Booe, Chris Booe, can you throw one on the truck for AOTH 8?

Learn somethin' new every day, now don't we?

[BUIZILLA]

MJW, trust me, I did *substantial* prop testing with my 18 and shorty, in fact at the Reunion, if you were there, which you weren't I don't think, I tried no less than 6 props that week... ask Grizz, and Lenny, and Smokediver, ... I know what I had in the truck, and I know what worked for me. So, i'm pretty up to date on things.. :wink: one of them actually picked up so much midrange over my fastest prop that I thought I had gained 50 hp, it was that drastic.. don't a$$ume i'm not in the current loop... I can't tell you how many different sets I had on the Scarab, and fuzzy and I learned a ton right there that wasn't EVER written in the books... the Mako was a different story completely, so was the Critter... so was the Minx... and so on... I purposely left the Cary off that list as well as 3 others i've owned..

[Lenny]

I LOVE the TXP on the 3" short 18LE :D :D :D

[mjw930]

No, I wasn't at the reunion because I never owned a Donzi until January. I've seen and heard all the talk about Turbo props, I understand since that seems to work the best with a large portion of the Classic Donzi population.

I haven't seen much talk about the Hydromotive QIV-X, P5-X (both multi-blade props designed for bow lift) or the Revolution 4. I really think they would be worth a look on these higher X boats and definitely worth a look on some of the ventilated Z boats. If you haven't tried them then how can you dismiss them? If you have tried them then I stand corrected.

[blackhawk]

needs a 24 Turbo

You stated TURBO, not TXP, which is why I and others responded the way I did. You may be correct that the TXP will lower rpm. I have no experience with them. I do have experience with the Turbo 1 and that will not lower rpms when compared to the M+. In fact it usually raises rpm slightly in my experience.

As far as running a 4 blade it depends on the X-dimension. I have no idea what the X is on an 18 but if it is as conservative as a 22(not the newer ones because I think they raised the X slightly???) you probably won't NEED a 4-blade. But if you want to try one I highly recommend the Rev4. As mjw930 stated that is a great out of the box prop!

[blackhawk]

I haven't seen much talk about the Hydromotive QIV-X, P5-X (both multi-blade props designed for bow lift) or the Revolution 4. I really think they would be worth a look on these higher X boats and definitely worth a look on some of the ventilated Z boats. If you haven't tried them then how can you dismiss them? If you have tried them then I stand corrected.

mjw930, I'm with you on the Rev4. That prop is fantastic on many boats! It is like a 4-blade Mirage. My bone stock 25 Rev4 was only 2mph slower than my labbed 25 Mirage and faster than my stock M+ and Turbo 25 with great cruise. And the handling was FAR superior to a Bravo 26.

[BUIZILLA]

I did try a Rev 4 on the 18..... for all of 5 or 6 minutes... maybe less... I think we tried the Rev 4 on the Scarab and the Mako, fuzzy has a better memory than me on this...

[blackhawk]

How about we go back to talking about car dealers now? Seems less controversial.

I don't think anything is as controversial as prop threads! :cool:

One thing I have learned in my prop experimenting is not one prop is the "magic" prop. Every boat responds differently and every driver/owner wants different things from their boat. I always try to give advice based on my experience on what a prop did(bow lift, planing, cruise, etc) and try not to recommend one single "magic" prop.

[smokediver]

i couldnt turn jim's 24 turbo .... but i could that labbed 23mirage plus :yes: you NEED to get that cloned !!!

[mjw930]

mjw930, I'm with you on the Rev4. That prop is fantastic on many boats! It is like a 4-blade Mirage. My bone stock 25 Rev4 was only 2mph slower than my labbed 25 Mirage and faster than my stock M+ and Turbo 25 with great cruise. And the handling was FAR superior to a Bravo 26.

On what boat? As Buiz has said, he didn't like it on his 18C and I'm sure that 22C's are a completely different animal WRT props.

Buiz,

Thanks for the note but what didn't you like about it? Just looking for info, not making any kind of statement.

[blackhawk]

On what boat? As Buiz has said, he didn't like it on his 18C and I'm sure that 22C's are a completely different animal WRT props.

24 Pantera

[smokediver]

If you have an alpha drive , not the ss but a regular alpha drive ... I wouldn't run a 4 blade ... it might be great but the extra load on the drive isn't worth it ... IMHO ... when cost isn't an issue , i have found labbed mirage plus are real hard to beat .. box stock turbo's are really good .. and with a shorty , the cleaver style blades seem to work pretty darn good ... did i mention how much i love my stock 18 with stock turbo prop !!! LOL .... i might though , with that set up , try a rev 4 ... good blade design for a shorty drive ...

[The Hedgehog]

If you have an alpha drive , not the ss but a regular alpha drive ... I wouldn't run a 4 blade ... it might be great but the extra load on the drive isn't worth it ... IMHO ... when cost isn't an issue , i have found labbed mirage plus are real hard to beat .. box stock turbo's are really good .. and with a shorty , the cleaver style blades seem to work pretty darn good ... did i mention how much i love my stock 18 with stock turbo prop !!! LOL .... i might though , with that set up , try a rev 4 ... good blade design for a shorty drive ...

He has a Bravo drive with an IMCO shorty. He would have a hard time breaking it with that weight and hp

[roadtrip se]

No, I wasn't at the reunion because I never owned a Donzi until January. I've seen and heard all the talk about Turbo props, I understand since that seems to work the best with a large portion of the Classic Donzi population.
I haven't seen much talk about the Hydromotive QIV-X, P5-X (both multi-blade props designed for bow lift) or the Revolution 4. I really think they would be worth a look on these higher X boats and definitely worth a look on some of the ventilated Z boats. If you haven't tried them then how can you dismiss them? If you have tried them then I stand corrected.

I own a big Mirage Plus, a TXP, two Quad4's, and a P5. As for the P5, I sincerely doubt most people here could turn it.
I push people at three blades to start when they start making mods, because they make the mods to gain top end. More blades rob speed, unless you are turning BIG power.

My fastest running prop is the Mirage. People say I am nuts for running it, because the boat has been known to do spooky things with it turning on the hub.

Best handling props. The TXP for a three blade and the Q4 for big water. I will try some more Bravo 1s, once I get done rehabbing the 22.

One thing I won't do is run a rubber hub or a non-hardened prop. Spun too many and thrown too many blades.

Um yes, I think we all have tried a bunch of props. Good info on this thread, BS aside.

[The Hedgehog]

This is a great thread. There is no way I would have thought that a shorty and a 3 blade prop would get along.

I have tested a prop or two (but nowhere anything as close to what Buizilla, Griz and other have done). I am still constantly intrigued by the whole prop thing. That is some black majic.

[BUIZILLA]

I want to add one thing to this.... when I played with props in salt and fresh water I found they acted differently in each... not much, but I was extremely in-tune with my 18 and I could feel the slightest twitch in that setup... the fastest was the labbed cleaver, but it sucked mid-range and had little bow rise, with 2 or 3 people in the boat it was a dog, I lost 5 mph just adding a single passenger... then the wonder prop came along thats still on it... lost a little top end but it was MINI Cooper rock solid stable to drive.... the stock 23 Mirage on the Critter turns 350 rpm more than a 23 Turbo out of the box... just because it's stamped with a certain size don't expect it to be that size... also with the SS drive it didn't like a round ear prop at all, the hull had drive plate vibrations/buzzing that drove me crazy and I didn't like the chine walk either, great bow rise but you constantly corrected the walk, which after a mile or so got pretty damn annoying.. I spent an entire day on Centerhill playing with prop's on the 18, thought it was perfect, then get home to salt and had to change the thinking again...

[blackhawk]

My fastest running prop is the Mirage. People say I am nuts for running it, because the boat has been known to do spooky things with it turning on the hub.

RT, not trying to hi-jack but is your 27 M+ your fastest prop? I just tried my labbed 27 M+ and I was surprised how well the boat handled after hearing all the horror stories of the 27 and 29. I was dealing with a strong cross-wind and cross-waves so I couldn't trim it out all the way but it handled well. If you are running a 27 M+ is it stock or labbed? And how does it compare to a TXP?

Thanks

[blackhawk]

This is a great thread. There is no way I would have thought that a shorty and a 3 blade prop would get along.

It depends on your current X. I have no idea what the X is on an 18 but if memory serves me correctly the 22 had an X of 14.5" for a long time. That puts the propshaft 7.3" below the boat which is very deep. A 2" shorty puts you at 5.3" which is still plenty deep for a 3 blade on most boats. It may slip a bit getting on plane and not have great mid-range cruise but will be fast on the big-end. Now if you have an X of 16" and you put on a 2" shorty you can probably forget about running a 3 blade. :D


I have tested a prop or two (but nowhere anything as close to what Buizilla, Griz and other have done). I am still constantly intrigued by the whole prop thing. That is some black majic.

I agree. The one thing that is always true about props is every boat is different and every owner/driver wants different things from their boat. So, there is no one "magic" prop! :D

[The Hedgehog]

It depends on your current X. I have no idea what the X is on an 18 but if memory serves me correctly the 22 had an X of 14.5" for a long time. That puts the propshaft 7.3" below the boat which is very deep. A 2" shorty puts you at 5.3" which is still plenty deep for a 3 blade on most boats. It may slip a bit getting on plane and not have great mid-range cruise but will be fast on the big-end. Now if you have an X of 16" and you put on a 2" shorty you can probably forget about running a 3 blade. :D
I agree. The one thing that is always true about props is every boat is different and every owner/driver wants different things from their boat. So, there is no one "magic" prop! :D

I would also say that the whole X dim and prop depth vs the number of blades also depends on the boat length. Try a 3 blade at 5.3" below the surface on a 27' boat (non step) and you will see some horrible slip not to mention that it probably won't plane off.

I am learning some very different things about these shorter boats.

[blackhawk]

I would also say that the whole X dim and prop depth vs the number of blades also depends on the boat length. Try a 3 blade at 5.3" below the surface on a 27' boat (non step) and you will see some horrible slip not to mention that it probably won't plane off.
I am learning some very different things about these shorter boats.

Excellent point! You're right a bigger single may not like the 3-blade with a shorty since they usually don't like a 3-blade to start with.

[osur866]

I LOVE the TXP on the 3" short 18LE :D :D :D
Lenny I'm most curious as to what size txp your running on that LE with the 3" rasied drive. Steve

[Lenny]

Lenny I'm most curious as to what size txp your running on that LE with the 3" rasied drive. Steve

I thought it was a 24. It says nothing on it other than TXP and believe me the Labbed Cleaver we took off (that I have) was IMPRESSIVE... :yes:

I was there for these (all ) changes, and I got lost in God knows where, (alone with my gal, Deneen, on the West side of Florida, in canals and inlets and, quite FRANKLY, S H I T that I do not ever see up here, or your terrain and waterways. I am an Ocean boater, when you go to the Ocean, you are on the Ocean. No question where you are there short of fog. Anyways, the point being, I played with the throttle, watched the colour of the water, and made it back in, and NOW has to be (in hindsight) one of the best times in my recent life. :yes: Boating with all you folks. :yes: Absolutely NUTZO :D ... ( when are we doing it again ?? )

Interesting place a lot of you live. :yes:

So, here it is. I love OCEAN waves, methodical, small/giant chop, big or small, who cares, whatever speed, but seriously a driver (or me) that has a brain and some experience (a LOT I hope) ... I can run all day, and will never EVER quit until I am dead. I wish the boat had 8 motors. But, the shallow waters and lakes that a lot of you boat on create incredibly interesting, and complex wave situations, and they require entirely different "tactical" steering and throttling characteristics to keep from aereating or stuffing, and to basically "support life".

I love this prop for both. I KNOW what it can do in TAMPA BAY, and Jim, you would not believe what it can do/sound/bite/pull/lift here in my waters.

CHEERS :D

Buzz will chime in, and or GRIZZ, but this TXP came from GRIZZ, it ROCKS.

...I just remember BUZZ running at the Gathering (last year) with only ONE hand on the wheel, going through S H I T like I have NEVER seen here at home ( as in the chop from EVERY DIRECTION) in TAMPA BAY. I AM used to giant/big water with a "rythym" , but not that stuff,...

...anyways, his hand NEVER left the wheel, other than for a beer, the throttle was NEVER touched, as if it was not even there, ... and we NEVER aired the prop and we flew a ton, We were in 3-4's. Ask any 22 owner how the little boat did with this prop...

HANDS DOWN the most fun 18 I have had to date.

This prop lifts and carries the bow like VIAGRA. It flies like a plane. ( AIR22) And it lands on pillows... It keeps hooked up , even at 3" shorter.

I am sold. The numbers are all better on this boat too with this prop. :yes:

I will slink away now......... See ya in Cumberland Jim :D

[osur866]

Lenny, sounds interesting, I boat in about 4-5 lakes and each one is different from the next ranging from a oversized pond to LOTO which is sometimes crazy with the washing machine waves. This was just the feed back I was looking for thanks, Steve

[Lenny]

...I just remember BUZZ running at the Gathering (last year) with only ONE hand on the wheel

...oh, one more thing, JODI and BUDMAN fighting over where "that place was" and basically, looking for HIS trailer, "four" of us in his truck, :rolleyes: travelling far enough to get a boat back home to me in Canada, when in fact, it was about a mile down the road from the Hyatt , NOT 2 hours from their launch :mad:
THAT brings back mammories...


:D :D :D

CHEERS Bud :)

[mjw930]

I've been looking around at a number of the online Turbo dealers and it looks like I might have confused what Poodle told me. It seems most have the 24P and up but very few show the 21P and 23P TXP's as available.

I know Griz and Poodle are dealers so what's the scoop? What pitches are readily available in the 3 blade TXP?

[BUIZILLA]

Lenny, I don't think that prop was a 24.... can't remember for sure though... maybe a 23.... I know my Turbo 1 is a 22 for sure...

[Air 22]

I thought it was a 24. It says nothing on it other than TXP and believe me the Labbed Cleaver we took off (that I have) was IMPRESSIVE... :yes:
I was there for these (all ) changes, and I got lost in God knows where, (alone with my gal, Deneen, on the West side of Florida, in canals and inlets and, quite FRANKLY, S H I T that I do not ever see up here, or your terrain and waterways. I am an Ocean boater, when you go to the Ocean, you are on the Ocean. No question where you are there short of fog. Anyways, the point being, I played with the throttle, watched the colour of the water, and made it back in, and NOW has to be (in hindsight) one of the best times in my recent life. :yes: Boating with all you folks. :yes: Absolutely NUTZO :D ... ( when are we doing it again ?? )
Interesting place a lot of you live. :yes:
So, here it is. I love OCEAN waves, methodical, small/giant chop, big or small, who cares, whatever speed, but seriously a driver (or me) that has a brain and some experience (a LOT I hope) ... I can run all day, and will never EVER quit until I am dead. I wish the boat had 8 motors. But, the shallow waters and lakes that a lot of you boat on create incredibly interesting, and complex wave situations, and they require entirely different "tactical" steering and throttling characteristics to keep from aereating or stuffing, and to basically "support life".
I love this prop for both. I KNOW what it can do in TAMPA BAY, and Jim, you would not believe what it can do/sound/bite/pull/lift here in my waters.
CHEERS :D
Buzz will chime in, and or GRIZZ, but this TXP came from GRIZZ, it ROCKS.
...I just remember BUZZ running at the Gathering (last year) with only ONE hand on the wheel, going through S H I T like I have NEVER seen here at home ( as in the chop from EVERY DIRECTION) in TAMPA BAY. I AM used to giant/big water with a "rythym" , but not that stuff,...
...anyways, his hand NEVER left the wheel, other than for a beer, the throttle was NEVER touched, as if it was not even there, ... and we NEVER aired the prop and we flew a ton, We were in 3-4's. Ask any 22 owner how the little boat did with this prop...
HANDS DOWN the most fun 18 I have had to date.
This prop lifts and carries the bow like VIAGRA. It flies like a plane. ( AIR22) And it lands on pillows... It keeps hooked up , even at 3" shorter.
I am sold. The numbers are all better on this boat too with this prop. :yes:
I will slink away now......... See ya in Cumberland Jim :D


Jim was right behind my boat load of 5 last year in Tampa Bay..I had to glance a Double Take:eek!: "Damn that's an 18...Crazy Bastard Buzilla":drive: . We crossed the bay in that Rat-ty Water and were waiting for everyone so long we thought we went to the wrong Resturant??:eek!::smash: That 18 "Flew" right along for sure..:thumbsup:

[BigGrizzly]

That prop on Lenny's boat is a out of the box TXP 23. Steve we have you covered for ATOH. Just to get some terminology straight Turbo does not make a 4 blade Lightning The Fusion is the 4 blade performance prop. Works great on high X dimensions, AKA shorty drives.

[Air 22]

That prop on Lenny's boat is a out of the box TXP 23. Steve we have you covered for ATOH. Just to get some terminology straight Turbo does not make a 4 blade Lightning The Fusion is the 4 blade performance prop. Works great on high X dimensions, AKA shorty drives.


I Ran Randy's props when I had a IMCO Shorty on my 22C the Fusion 25...Its a very nice prop and could handled the waters off and around Sarasota. :wink:

[osur866]

Thanks for all the replies, been very informative, now come on May 15th!! :wink: Steve

[mjw930]

Hey, could someone here who is a Turbo dealer call them up and tell them to either update their website or eliminate it all together.

Getting old or bad information is worse than getting no information and all and their website is really bad. I mean come one, THIS (http://www.turbo-props.com/TXP.htm) is the extent of information on the TXP that exists on their site, it's a joke.

Take a look at Hydromotive's site (http://www.hydromotive.com/). They are a much smaller company (I think) than Precision yet their site is full of information, clear pictures and all the things you need to compile information before you drop $500+ on a prop.

Just a suggestion!

[blackhawk]

Hey, could someone here who is a Turbo dealer call them up and tell them to either update their website or eliminate it all together.

Getting old or bad information is worse than getting no information and all and their website is really bad. I mean come one, THIS (http://www.turbo-props.com/TXP.htm) is the extent of information on the TXP that exists on their site, it's a joke.

Take a look at Hydromotive's site (http://www.hydromotive.com/). They are a much smaller company (I think) than Precision yet their site is full of information, clear pictures and all the things you need to compile information before you drop $500+ on a prop.

Just a suggestion!

Yeah, their website is a joke. IMO they are losing a lot of business because of it. It doesn't cost much to have someone build you a decent website. Hell, my work website is better than that and I made it myself. LOL

It's too bad cause they make a decent prop.

[BigGrizzly]

So far the Fusion has beaten the Hydro on every shorty I have put it on. Ask Zing17. As for the web site I agree, they do spend more time designing props than paying a web man. Also remember that Hydro doesn't have a foundry they buy from someone else. The Quad4 is a copy of the old Mach Patriot and the P5x is a direct copy of a BravoI with another blade attached. Hydro never goes to shows and only advertises in mags and internet. However if you think it is better then use it, but not because the web site is better:smash:. They do make a really good nose cone. Actually they are not loosing any significant business because of their web site. It is really easy to maintain a web site if you have only a few products. Call their dealers such as me and ask for information. Then call up Hydro and talk to them. There are some people who won't deal with them because of attitude!

[mjw930]

So far the Fusion has beaten the Hydro on every shorty I have put it on. Ask Zing17. As for the web site I agree, they do spend more time designing props than paying a web man. Also remember that Hydro doesn't have a foundry they buy from someone else. The Quad4 is a copy of the old Mach Patriot and the P5x is a direct copy of a BravoI with another blade attached. Hydro never goes to shows and only advertises in mags and internet. However if you think it is better then use it, but not because the web site is better:smash:. They do make a really good nose cone. Actually they are not loosing any significant business because of their web site. It is really easy to maintain a web site if you have only a few products. Call their dealers such as me and ask for information. Then call up Hydro and talk to them. There are some people who won't deal with them because of attitude!

I don't want to get into a pissing contest here, I'm just looking for something that should be readily available online.

Hell, at least a dealer listing would be a start. (I'd call you but I don't even know what your company is called to look it up)

[blackhawk]

I don't want to get into a pissing contest here, I'm just looking for something that should be readily available online.

Hell, at least a dealer listing would be a start.

I agree with you once again. A high school or college kid could make their website for minimal $$$. Nothing fancy just a breakdown of their props and their characteristics. I don't think the TXP is even on their site?:confused:

Obviously this site has tons of info as there is a loyal following. But outside this site they are a pretty unknown company. Maintaining a website is a VERY minimal investment that is great advertising.

[mjw930]

I agree with you once again. A high school or college kid could make their website for minimal $$$. Nothing fancy just a breakdown of their props and their characteristics. I don't think the TXP is even on their site?:confused:

Obviously this site has tons of info as there is a loyal following. But outside this site they are a pretty unknown company. Maintaining a website is a VERY minimal investment that is great advertising.

I was going to mention that but feared the wrath of the reputation police. Outside of this community and perhaps the outboard community such as Scream and Fly, Turbo props aren't even on the radar WRT high performance boating.

After hanging out with some pretty fast guys off and on over the last 15 years the only names I see on the back of boats are Mercury, Hydromotive, Herring, some Matco's and recently CNC props from Throttle Up.

Kind of makes you go "Hmm", if these are so good why aren't the big boys using them?

BUT, like I said, my 23P Turbo 1 works VERY well on the 22C so I'm not knocking them, just pointing out the facts as I see them. I do need to get my Turbo balanced though, it's got a subtle vibration that sets up a harmonic around 4000 RPM. My 21 and 23 labbed Cleavers are smooth as a knife through butter so I know it's not the alignment or the coupler.

[chappy]

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143799&highlight=turbo+props
Brett and Julie must have different radar with regards to high performance boating.:rolleyes:

[mjw930]

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143799&highlight=turbo+props
Brett and Julie must have different radar with regards to high performance boating.:rolleyes:

Not sure what you mean here but if you look at the progression of the conversations you'll see that Brett has changed his tune a bit. I spoke with him a while back about props and he likes the Turbo's but he's in the business to sell product and most of his customers want the Mercury props.

10/06 He talks about carrying the entire line: http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143799&highlight=turbo

04/07 He now says he has "some" Turbos: http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155794&highlight=turbo

I have noticed that most of the people who have tried Turbo's and like them are running older, more traditional boats, most with lower X dimensions that like the more traditional blade profiles. I don't think the TXP has gotten the press or testing it deserves and that may be why they are still perceived as "outboard or runabout" props. The TXP and the Fusion 4 would probably work very well on the newer hull designs and for the price they are a damn good bargain.

Step away from this site or the events that members here frequent and go someplace where you see a lot of go fast hardware in one place (poker runs, shootouts, etc.) and ask around about props. You'll find that very few run Turbos and to be fair, very few know anything about Turbos. Today's market is all about 4 and 5 blade props, many that need to be hubbed for XR drives with something that can take 700HP behind a 9000lb boat. Precision doesn't play in that space, Hydromotive, Mercury and Herring do.

I'm not saying anything negative about Turbo or Precision, just that they are far from the big dog when it comes to high performance propellers. Could be due to their marketing, dealer network or simply their desire to serve a different segment of the boating world, one that's admittedly much larger than the High Performance segment.

I have also noticed that a lot of "what works" are based on people's perceptions. Someone who's used to their boat running low in the water with a Cleaver or other low rake prop can get very disoriented when they put on a high rake prop and now their boat is running higher and starts to feel "loose" to them. OTOH, someone like me who has done all of his high speed boating in boats with pads and notches considers that feeling to be "normal". I've heard from some here that Mirage+ and Bravo 1 props make their boats handle scary and I don't doubt that to be true but you can also find posts like this one (http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1324699&postcount=20) where they state exactly the opposite. It all comes down to how your boat is set up and what you expect it to feel like IMHO.

I knew someone was going to take offense with my comments, it seems props rank right up there with politics, religion and oil when it comes to people getting defensive. I need to file that away for future reference when I'm on this site. :cool:

[chappy]

:rofl:

[Air 22]

"I've heard from some here that Mirage+ and Bravo 1 props make their boats handle scary and I don't doubt that to be true but you can also find posts like this one where they state exactly the opposite. It all comes down to how your boat is set up and what you expect it to feel like IMHO."

mj..I have tested atleast 20+props:eek!: on my 22C in Salt and Fresh water...Myself and brother Bravo One...for our 22C's love the Mercury Racing Bravo Props..Most of us in the Powerboating community are aware of Mercury Racing and their props etc..:thumbsup: In our opinion nothing performs like a labbed prop....That being said many don't want to spend that kind of money on a prop.. so to each his own....their is no one way to prop a boat..its an individual choice and of course TESTING being the key word!!:smash:
what works for one guy may not work for another for any number of reasons:smash: Half the fun is trying this stuff out and finding what works best...:wink::cool:

[mjw930]

:rofl:

????????????

[BigGrizzly]

I am Big Grizzly Performance Propeller. The Phones are home/business isw 706-216-8194, ore Cell 770-3218-1136. I don't like to advertise in my posts, because I am not a paid advertiser for the net, yet. I am available for help on Donzi related stuff and props too. I do testing for several prop companies, so I do have a inside line sometimes. BTW no P- contest intended just information. BTW Precision is tied for the biggest prop company in the country. What Air 22 said is correct testing is where it is at! What I don't like is the guy claiming his prop is the best when he hasn't tried any other prop, or just one other prop. I have done a lot of propping on Donzis, but I still don't know all the answers.

[blackhawk]

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143799&highlight=turbo+props
Brett and Julie must have different radar with regards to high performance boating.:rolleyes:

I don't get what you are trying to say by "radar"? :confused:

All Julie was stating is I should call the manufacturer of Turbo props to get more info.

[chappy]

I don't get what you are trying to say by "radar"? :confused:
All Julie was stating is I should call the manufacturer of Turbo props to get more info.

Hi Scott,

The "radar" was in reference to post #56.

[roadtrip se]

I have also noticed that a lot of "what works" are based on people's perceptions. Someone who's used to their boat running low in the water with a Cleaver or other low rake prop can get very disoriented when they put on a high rake prop and now their boat is running higher and starts to feel "loose" to them. OTOH, someone like me who has done all of his high speed boating in boats with pads and notches considers that feeling to be "normal". I've heard from some here that Mirage+ and Bravo 1 props make their boats handle scary and I don't doubt that to be true but you can also find posts like this one (http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1324699&postcount=20) where they state exactly the opposite. It all comes down to how your boat is set up and what you expect it to feel like IMHO.


Interesting comments here. Remember, I said earlier in this thread, I would prefer to talk about car dealers than props, because it is less controversial.

I do consider this portion of your comments above a significant generalization about our community. There is a ton of experience here with high performance applications and you make us all sound like we are all going to poop our pants if a prop gets the boat up out of the water and forces us to drive a little.

I ran prototypes of the TXP on my boat, gave feedback, and now have one in my arsenal, because it is a nice half way point in handling and performance between a three blade and a four blade on my boat. Just because some guy running an Outerlimits isn't interested in it is completely irrelevant to the application on our boats.

In regards to the Mirage, book a ticket to Kentucky and bring your stock 27 with you. I would also recommend a nice life jacket and a box of Depends. We can mount your prop on my boat and then saddle up with a couple of diapers and our life vests and go run your prop. You won't forget the experience, I promise you. I will also insist that you clean up your own soiled seat.

Keep in mind, it is a completely different avenue with the 29 Mirage, although she can trick you a little, but that is why she has the nickname "El Diablo". Night and day to the 27, based on real world results, not the little old lady behind the wheel.

I promise you my perception of "what works" as well as many others out here, is pretty darn close to yours and right on accurate based on a high level of experience, so please save it for the Baja forum.

Invitation stands for that 27 Mirage ride. You make it to the AOTH, I'll pull the thing off the trailer to make that little ride in your honor. Oh and you might see a few other nuts like me there doing some pretty incredible things with these "old style" boats.

[mjw930]

Wow, I don't know where you got all that from my simple little paragraph? BTW, I don't own a Mirage prop at this point in time, don't know where you got that from either.

I made a generalized statement that was in no way controversial and you turned it onto some sort of challenge? WTF!

I stand by my generalization because it true of the general boating public. Obviously not the majority of the people here, I didn't mean to suggest that, but in general I know I'm right because I've had enough people in my boats, ridden with enough others and had too many drinks with boat builders over the years to know that the majority of the boating public are clueless when it comes to boat setup. How about the guys that find out that the trim switch is for more than raising the drive in the trailer 2 years AFTER then took delivery of the boat! Don't laugh, you would be amazed how many long time boaters have no concept of trim. But why should I expect more of them since most of these people can't drive a car all that well either...... ;) ;) ;)

Your 22 sounds like a fun ride. Too bad I can't make it to AOTH.

[blackhawk]

I do consider this portion of your comments above a significant generalization about our community. There is a ton of experience here with high performance applications and you make us all sound like we are all going to poop our pants if a prop gets the boat up out of the water and forces us to drive a little.

RT, I didn't take it that he was making generalizations about people on this site. I took it as performance boaters in general. Many times a person puts on a prop that loosens the boat up and makes it faster they are quick to pull it off because it was "too loose" before they give it a chance to make it work.

As far as the older boat design he is 100% correct. A classic is just that, a classic. It has a deep X and no steps. Propped much different than a stepped-bottom boat with a 19" X dimension.

These prop threads get controversial because people seem to think there is one magic prop out there. I always try and post the characteristics of a prop based on my experiences to help people out. To read a post and say "you need this prop" is bordering on ridiculous.

[The Hedgehog]

Interesting comments here. Remember, I said earlier in this thread, I would prefer to talk about car dealers than props, because it is less controversial.
I do consider this portion of your comments above a significant generalization about our community. There is a ton of experience here with high performance applications and you make us all sound like we are all going to poop our pants if a prop gets the boat up out of the water and forces us to drive a little.
I ran prototypes of the TXP on my boat, gave feedback, and now have one in my arsenal, because it is a nice half way point in handling and performance between a three blade and a four blade on my boat. Just because some guy running an Outerlimits isn't interested in it is completely irrelevant to the application on our boats.
In regards to the Mirage, book a ticket to Kentucky and bring your stock 27 with you. I would also recommend a nice life jacket and a box of Depends. We can mount your prop on my boat and then saddle up with a couple of diapers and our life vests and go run your prop. You won't forget the experience, I promise you. I will also insist that you clean up your own soiled seat.
Keep in mind, it is a completely different avenue with the 29 Mirage, although she can trick you a little, but that is why she has the nickname "El Diablo". Night and day to the 27, based on real world results, not the little old lady behind the wheel.
I promise you my perception of "what works" as well as many others out here, is pretty darn close to yours and right on accurate based on a high level of experience, so please save it for the Baja forum.
Invitation stands for that 27 Mirage ride. You make it to the AOTH, I'll pull the thing off the trailer to make that little ride in your honor. Oh and you might see a few other nuts like me there doing some pretty incredible things with these "old style" boats.

I remember from prop testing that one of the Mirage plus props was said to be very squirrely.

Was it the 27 or the 29 that is the most squirrely? I seem to remember that once you go higher than the 25 plus things start getting different.

[roadtrip se]

Wow, I don't know where you got all that from my simple little paragraph? BTW, I don't own a Mirage prop at this point in time, don't know where you got that from either.
I made a generalized statement that was in no way controversial and you turned it onto some sort of challenge? WTF!
I stand by my generalization because it true of the general boating public. Obviously not the majority of the people here, I didn't mean to suggest that, but in general I know I'm right because I've had enough people in my boats, ridden with enough others and had too many drinks with boat builders over the years to know that the majority of the boating public are clueless when it comes to boat setup. How about the guys that find out that the trim switch is for more than raising the drive in the trailer 2 years AFTER then took delivery of the boat! Don't laugh, you would be amazed how many long time boaters have no concept of trim. But why should I expect more of them since most of these people can't drive a car all that well either...... ;) ;) ;)
Your 22 sounds like a fun ride. Too bad I can't make it to AOTH.

In reference to the 27 Mirage, the point I was making is bring your's or a friend's, because I wouldn't waste the money on buying another one to prove a point. You should be able to find one serving as a boat anchor or gathering a dust in the barn.

The challenge is a simple, come take a ride with that wonderful piece of boating technology on the back of my boat and eat a few words about the superiority of this Mercury product.

There isn't an exception or qualifier in your all reaching generalization, so it can be read as a statment which encompasses this community which DOES make it controversial. Start at the beginning of this thread and you will see that it started on propping for a shortie install, not "where the hell is my trim switch" or "how do I prop my Baja?" The topic is propping Donzis and my interpretation of what you said is not much of a reach.

One paragraph can say a bunch amigo. Next time try something like a little qualifier, if you don't mean to make a blanket statment.

Invite stands whenever you are ready. Should be a real hoot, if you are entertained by trying to keep a performance boat upright.

[roadtrip se]

I remember from prop testing that one of the Mirage plus props was said to be very squirrely.
Was it the 27 or the 29 that is the most squirrely? I seem to remember that once you go higher than the 25 plus things start getting different.

and a little shotgun theorizing point to the diameter difference between the 27 and 29. I believe the 27 is 14 3/8s and the 29
is 15. This is huge on my application, as I have found from testing that the boat likes a lot of diameter, no matter what the brand is on the prop.

[mjw930]

In reference to the 27 Mirage, the point I was making is bring your's or a friend's, because I wouldn't waste the money on buying another one to prove a point. You should be able to find one serving as a boat anchor or gathering a dust in the barn.

The challenge is a simple, come take a ride with that wonderful piece of boating technology on the back of my boat and eat a few words about the superiority of this Mercury product.

There isn't an exception or qualifier in your all reaching generalization, so it can be read as a statment which encompasses this community which DOES make it controversial. Start at the beginning of this thread and you will see that it started on propping for a shortie install, not "where the hell is my trim switch" or "how do I prop my Baja?" The topic is propping Donzis and my interpretation of what you said is not much of a reach.

One paragraph can say a bunch amigo. Next time try something like a little qualifier, if you don't mean to make a blanket statment.

Invite stands whenever you are ready. Should be a real hoot, if you are entertained by trying to keep a performance boat upright.

Todd,

I never said the Mercury prop was "superior". Where the fock do you get this garbage from.

I also NEVER in this thread or anywhere else recommended a Mirage to anyone.

I don't know why you feel the need to stalk me on some of these threads but it's getting a bit old.

[mjw930]

Hi Scott,

The "radar" was in reference to post #56.

Sorry Chappy but you kind of proved my point by referencing OSO.

If you do a search of the props section of OSO for the word Turbo you get 81 hits from 1400 posts. 5 posts with TXP in them and 6 with Fusion. Not exactly a topic of daily conversation. I call that flying under the radar. Another term might indifferent, i.e. they could care less about Turbo props.

Again, that doesn't mean they aren't good, it just means they aren't popular in THAT crowd and that's the crowd I come from.

Sorry if that pisses anyone off, that wasn't my intent.

[VetteLT193]

In reference to the 27 Mirage, the point I was making is bring your's or a friend's, because I wouldn't waste the money on buying another one to prove a point. You should be able to find one serving as a boat anchor or gathering a dust in the barn.
The challenge is a simple, come take a ride with that wonderful piece of boating technology on the back of my boat and eat a few words about the superiority of this Mercury product.....

My brother runs a Mirage on his 22. Runs great. I've been a passenger of his boat for many hours as well as behind the wheel and neither of us had one bit of a problem.

You have made the point that the Mirage runs like crap in your situation. It's useful information and a useful opinion to weigh in. However it's not the only information or opinion available.

[BUIZILLA]

I will also insist that you clean up your own soiled seat. ..........

[samjannarone]

Easy guys, the weekend is here, everyone have a beer, or better yet a big glass of scotch, relax and enjoy:boat:

[Air 22]

:popcorn::drinkbeer:

[roadtrip se]

Todd,
I never said the Mercury prop was "superior". Where the fock do you get this garbage from.
I also NEVER in this thread or anywhere else recommended a Mirage to anyone.
I don't know why you feel the need to stalk me on some of these threads but it's getting a bit old.

My "stalking" you has nothing to do with the Mirage+.
It is only an example I was using to point out the absurdity of your blanket comments. I like to think of it as calling you out.
Stalking is a bit creepy.

And it isn't the first time, you have made a comment like this that was just plain wrong or arrogant. So I call you out on it yet again.

And of course, your opinion (which we all are entiltled to) is 100% iron clad correct based on your ability to read offshore boards, run other offshore boats, and hob-nob with boat builders.

Unfortuantely, I too and entitled to an opinion based on my own set of experiences, some similar to yours, and will continue to call you out when I damm well feel like it.

One phrase would have made your statment less overbearing.
"This comment may not apply to all performance boaters".
Simple as that. So forget about the Mirage crap, if that is too much for you to handle.

In the mean time, I will await your next authoritive post of supreme knowledge and self-proclaimed rightousness.

[Air 22]

:eek!: Will this be a Live Pay Per View Event??:popcorn::nilly::wink:

[gcarter]

Boy I'm glad I didn't read this up 'till now........
I'm grateful for all the time I didn't waste. :wink:


Well, back on my head w/the TR!

[blackhawk]

My "stalking" you has nothing to do with the Mirage+.
It is only an example I was using to point out the absurdity of your blanket comments. I like to think of it as calling you out.
Stalking is a bit creepy.
And it isn't the first time, you have made a comment like this that was just plain wrong or arrogant. So I call you out on it yet again.
And of course, your opinion (which we all are entiltled to) is 100% iron clad correct based on your ability to read offshore boards, run other offshore boats, and hob-nob with boat builders.
Unfortuantely, I too and entitled to an opinion based on my own set of experiences, some similar to yours, and will continue to call you out when I damm well feel like it.
One phrase would have made your statment less overbearing.
"This comment may not apply to all performance boaters".
Simple as that. So forget about the Mirage crap, if that is too much for you to handle.
In the mean time, I will await your next authoritive post of supreme knowledge and self-proclaimed rightousness.

Hey RT, ever heard the saying "pot calling the kettle black"?

I say nothing in mjw930's posts that were out of line until you provoked him and called him out simply because he stated that most boaters don't like a loose feeling prop. You twisted his words around and made it sound like a personal attack to the board members, which it obviously wasn't.

[BigGrizzly]

Ok Boys and Girls the trash talk is over. 1) A labbed or modified prop isn't in any way an out of the box prop, 2) The labbed Merc props are about $1,000, 3) OSO guys only try what their buddies use or what is the the LATEST and GREATEST, Most have never tried a out of the box prop or a TXP. A $4,000 Herring is a special prop unto itself. BBlades now carries some Turbo props because the new Turbo performance props have Kicked the but of the Maximus and Bravos. 4) there is no relationship between a 28-38 foot brand XXX and a 16->28 single engine Donzi except that they both have engines! 5) There is always going to be something better, faster and handles better on a given day only real test is the same day same conditions and same boat and fuel load etc. and same type of water(fresh or salt). If anybody wants to discuss the above load up and come to Cumberland or bring your boat to Lanier and we can discuss it on the "show me basis"! Unless you have personally have tried more then 5 different props on the same boat under the same conditions you only have an a third hand opinion. No offense meant or intended to anyone whatsoever.

BTW the first time I heard the term Widow maker to describe the Mirage plus over 237 pitch was by Julie at Throttle Up, granted I was not happy with mine but it wasn't that bad. Problem is someone who sels the product says it to someone it becomes fact if enough people repeat it. Case in point!

[mjw930]

Todd, point out one thing that I posted in this thread that was wrong. Opinionated, ABSOLUTELY, wrong, I don't think so.

[mjw930]

Ok Boys and Girls the trash talk is over. 1) A labbed or modified prop isn't in any way an out of the box prop, 2) The labbed Merc props are about $1,000, 3) OSO guys only try what their buddies use or what is the the LATEST and GREATEST, Most have never tried a out of the box prop or a TXP. A $4,000 Herring is a special prop unto itself. BBlades now carries some Turbo props because the new Turbo performance props have Kicked the but of the Maximus and Bravos. 4) there is no relationship between a 28-38 foot brand XXX and a 16->28 single engine Donzi except that they both have engines! 5) There is always going to be something better, faster and handles better on a given day only real test is the same day same conditions and same boat and fuel load etc. and same type of water(fresh or salt). If anybody wants to discuss the above load up and come to Cumberland or bring your boat to Lanier and we can discuss it on the "show me basis"! Unless you have personally have tried more then 5 different props on the same boat under the same conditions you only have an a third hand opinion. No offense meant or intended to anyone whatsoever.

BTW the first time I heard the term Widow maker to describe the Mirage plus over 237 pitch was by Julie at Throttle Up, granted I was not happy with mine but it wasn't that bad. Problem is someone who sels the product says it to someone it becomes fact if enough people repeat it. Case in point!

Griz, your points are well taken but it doesn't change the fact that Turbo props are not big in the high performance world outside of this community. That's not me talking out my ass or surfing the web, that's me talking to people like Julie and Brett and some local riggers that specialize in high performance boats.

Question, do they offer a solid hub version of the Fusion 4 or TXP and do they also offer those props with an XZ and XR 1 3/8 prop shaft hub? Those 2 things alone will keep them off the back of a lot of people's boats these days.

BTW, I don't know how the whole issue of a Mirage prop came up, I didn't raise it. I've never liked that prop since I tried a labbed 27 on my old Velocity and couldn't get more than 80% efficiency out of it. Widowmaker is appropriate considering the rail to rail chine walking it introduced! Regardless, I was all set to try on one the 22C until the 23 Turbo 1 worked well enough out of the box for me to spend my money elsewhere.

See, I don't dislike Turbo props, that's not what this is all about.

[yeller]

In reference to the 27 Mirage, the point I was making is bring your's or a friend's, because I wouldn't waste the money on buying another one to prove a point. You should be able to find one serving as a boat anchor or gathering a dust in the barn.Blueliner is running a 27 on his AE and loves it. MJW is exactly correct. It's "what works" for the individual. I have a Q4 on mine and it didn't "settle" the boat out like is the general consenses here. It's still an undie soiler. That being said, I have a 29 M+ being delivered to me at Lake Powell in June (courtesy of DonCig). My boat didn't react the way people said it would with a Q4, so I figure it may not react the way people say it will with an M+.

[Ed Donnelly]

mjw930; No this is not what it is all about..
It is about osur866 asking about props for HIS boat, HIS application................Ed

[mjw930]

mjw930; No this is not what it is all about..
It is about osur866 asking about props for HIS boat, HIS application................Ed

Sorry, I'll refer to my original post (http://www.donzi.net/forums/showpost.php?p=447423&postcount=8) and I'm done with this thread.

[roadtrip se]

Question, do they offer a solid hub version of the Fusion 4 or TXP and do they also offer those props with an XZ and XR 1 3/8 prop shaft hub? Those 2 things alone will keep them off the back of a lot of people's boats these days.


If you actually spent some time reading the information embedded in this thread instead of trying to prove how smart you are to everyone here, you would have noticed that I already stated that I have a XR, I don't run anything but solid hubs, and I prototyped and now own a TXP.

Frankly, I don't think there are many here that really care what Precision does or doesn't do for other segments of the perfomance boat market, but that they have shown interest in us and provide some nice stuff that runs well on our boats.

I also use Mercury and Hydro stuff, too, based on the conditons and the mood of the day. I recommended all of them to Steve, when we spoke on the phone a few weeks back about his set up on the 18.

By the way, look up "humility" in the Webster's. If you are going to offer an opinion that may be a bit controversial, then you best be prepared to listen to another opinion that may not necessarily agree with yours. And please, spare me the personal crap. No hard feelings here.

[The Hedgehog]

Ok Boys and Girls the trash talk is over. 1) A labbed or modified prop isn't in any way an out of the box prop, 2) The labbed Merc props are about $1,000, 3) OSO guys only try what their buddies use or what is the the LATEST and GREATEST, Most have never tried a out of the box prop or a TXP. A $4,000 Herring is a special prop unto itself. BBlades now carries some Turbo props because the new Turbo performance props have Kicked the but of the Maximus and Bravos. 4) there is no relationship between a 28-38 foot brand XXX and a 16->28 single engine Donzi except that they both have engines! 5) There is always going to be something better, faster and handles better on a given day only real test is the same day same conditions and same boat and fuel load etc. and same type of water(fresh or salt). If anybody wants to discuss the above load up and come to Cumberland or bring your boat to Lanier and we can discuss it on the "show me basis"! Unless you have personally have tried more then 5 different props on the same boat under the same conditions you only have an a third hand opinion. No offense meant or intended to anyone whatsoever.

BTW the first time I heard the term Widow maker to describe the Mirage plus over 237 pitch was by Julie at Throttle Up, granted I was not happy with mine but it wasn't that bad. Problem is someone who sels the product says it to someone it becomes fact if enough people repeat it. Case in point!

You are so right about the OSO thing! I see some good knowledge getting passed around there but I see a bunch of sheep from time to time also. I see all sorts of folks with moderate X-dims wanting 5 blades because others have them.

I am hoping that you will have a few LH props for me at AOTH so I can buy one for the X-18. I can't go home without one.

[BigGrizzly]

Actually MJW930 here is where you are wrong on the Turbo performance props. They are very big in racing, just not in offshore racing. In sst and several other classes they are the props to run. They go to the races every weekend that is possible. And if you think these guys are going to tell who makes or modified their props your wrong! Like race car motors, Garry Grimes builds engines for several competitors who say they build their own. When I was working with Babe Erson cams(the original designer for Erson cams) he sent cams to various NASCAR teams and wold not admit to it. I even put them in the box and addressed it myself. The problem is you have tunnel vision. Until recently only Hydromotive Merc, Herring(fairly new) and a few custom shops made a prop over 28 inches pitch, hence the following of the "high performance props. Now Turbo and soon Solas will in the hunt. BTW Brett at BBlades use to work for Merc and learning from Mr. Cavanguh himself helped designed most of the Merc racing props! This is one reason he uses them. Today one of the only good prop experts from the test and more test era is Jim Boos the owner of Turbo props. Everybody has a favorite. Mine are Turbo and Solas. I would sell others but they mostly copies of these two. I can give you only FACTS, and personal experience. One Question-How fast is your boat and what props have you personally tried on your boat the same day? I have had several board members to my house and tested several props the same day, they all left with Turbos. But what do I know, I and test for only 5 companies and sell props. To rap this up there is no one perfect prop for all conditions. There is an article in the new Trailer Boats mag, called the "The perfect prop" by Neil Mullin, that explains fitting a prop to a particular boat.

[mjw930]

Actually MJW930 here is where you are wrong on the Turbo performance props. They are very big in racing, just not in offshore racing. In sst and several other classes they are the props to run. They go to the races every weekend that is possible. And if you think these guys are going to tell who makes or modified their props your wrong! Like race car motors, Garry Grimes builds engines for several competitors who say they build their own. When I was working with Babe Erson cams(the original designer for Erson cams) he sent cams to various NASCAR teams and wold not admit to it. I even put them in the box and addressed it myself. The problem is you have tunnel vision. Until recently only Hydromotive Merc, Herring(fairly new) and a few custom shops made a prop over 28 inches pitch, hence the following of the "high performance props. Now Turbo and soon Solas will in the hunt. BTW Brett at BBlades use to work for Merc and learning from Mr. Cavanguh himself helped designed most of the Merc racing props! This is one reason he uses them. Today one of the only good prop experts from the test and more test era is Jim Boos the owner of Turbo props. Everybody has a favorite. Mine are Turbo and Solas. I would sell others but they mostly copies of these two. I can give you only FACTS, and personal experience. One Question-How fast is your boat and what props have you personally tried on your boat the same day? I have had several board members to my house and tested several props the same day, they all left with Turbos. But what do I know, I and test for only 5 companies and sell props. To rap this up there is no one perfect prop for all conditions. There is an article in the new Trailer Boats mag, called the "The perfect prop" by Neil Mullin, that explains fitting a prop to a particular boat.

Griz,

I said I was done with this thread but your reply was so well thought out and informative that I must reply.

I think this thread got derailed when I started asking questions and made some comments about Turbo's relative status in the high performance arena. One can only base their opinions on what they know and information they get from people around them. I do apologize if things got out of hand.

Having spent the last decade playing around in the offshore world I'm relatively ignorant with regard to the outboard, runnabout, and small performance boat arena. In the world I'm coming from people are sort of stuck in "what they know" or "what others are doing" mode. In addition, the HP, size and speed they are running now are insane compared to just 10 years ago, way out of my price league. That's the main reason, when I got back into a boat, I went with something smaller and more affordable. Obviously it's a different world and there's a lot of tribal knowledge that I need to catch up on.

I hope Turbo and Solas make a splash in the market, their pricing will work to force the others to come into line. $1000 for a custom prop is understandable but not for what is basically a stock prop tuned to meet design specs and for the most part, that's what people get when they buy a "labbed" version off the shelf, a blueprinted stock prop.

Like I said, I have nothing against Turbo and in fact run one on my boat and like it's performance. I look forward to trying other props but probably not until I dial up the power since I'm pretty well maxed out today.

FYI, my first post here was to provide a list of props to try based on my experience. I too come from the test and retest era :wink:

[BUIZILLA]

Mark, I have been using Turbo props for over 20 years, in fact my company was/still is listed as a direct dealer for them, and I could buy direct, pretty sure I still can... but I choose to purchase from Grizz and Poodle, as I don't see the need to pander props here, being that i'm in the diesel business...

[Cuda]

I guess I am lucky that I didn't need to go up in pitch then, I just assumed they had them available.
My dad has a 22c trs 330 stock that we put a 23p turbo 1 on and are seeing the same numbers as you, I agree it doesnt get too much better with that kind of power, the boat gained speed and max rpms stayed the same on that boat when it wnet from a 23p cleaver to the turbo 1 .
Turbo is a great company to deal with as well I have found.
Paul
That's almost exactly what I did. I went from a 23 cleaver, to a 24 Turbo three blade. I also have the exact same power and drive set up.

[Cuda]

I don't think anything is as controversial as prop threads! :cool:
.
Oh no? Start a best oil thread if you really want to see a brawl! :)

[Cuda]

:eek!: Will this be a Live Pay Per View Event??:popcorn::nilly::wink:
I know a lot of people post LOL, but that post did make me laugh out loud! :)

[Cuda]

Todd, point out one thing that I posted in this thread that was wrong. Opinionated, ABSOLUTELY, wrong, I don't think so.
By definition, an opinion cannot be wrong. It can only be wrong, if stated as fact. If it's stated as an opinion, it IS his opinion, and that cannot be false.

[Cuda]

Ok, as a qualifier, I don't know diddly about props. The fastest boat I have owned, came equiped with 16.5x26 Kaama props.

I do feel the need to report what I've seen. I don't know about Hydro being at boat shows and such, but I do know they were at Bay Pines boat launch with the crew from Throttle Up, with a truckfull of props for testing. There were guys there from all over the state to test them.

Also, as far as the Merc hi performance props, I never seen more pictures of a blade slung off a prop, than I have of them.

Okay, back to our normally scheduled brawl. :)

[Air 22]

:eek!:This prop has possibilities....lol:smash::wink::thumbsup:

[Ed Donnelly]

Damm wrong rotation.................Ed

[catch 22]

Where can I get some.:drool:

[Air 22]

I'm currently testing a new prop oil.. So far the results are pretty astounding..



Scott...The Bravo Boyz will each take a case of the
Prop-Oil:):) Any idea if its a Full Synthetic or just a mix?...lol We are trying to calculate the " Proper"
Slip factor etc etc...:):)

[osur866]

Well more time with the current set-up I've found out that while crusing at 25-30 with the exhaust thru the prop tends to have higher slip #'s, this is not as bad while thru the transom. I've had a few times while making tight turns while going slow prop blow out as well. It's like learning it all over again. Steve

[roadtrip se]

please Steve.

Can't really theorize on the prop slip at mid-range, w/o experiencing it for myself, but some others might try here.
I have never run Q&Q at anything, but idle on my boat.

The blow out thingy is a finesse deal that I deal with on the bigger boat. Can give you some tips there.

I do want a ride.

I hear that Poodle has the magic elixer in this new prop oil,
so we can give that a shot while we are at it.

See you at the lake.

[blackhawk]

Oh no? Start a best oil thread if you really want to see a brawl! :)

Okay, you're definitely right about that. Oil threads are the worst! :)

[BigGrizzly]

930, no offense taken or inferred. Like I said I can only deal in some facts. As I say in every prop post "if it is better for you than run it. " Personally, if it is a pink poke a dot Suzuki prop and it works for your boat use it. However honest testing is the key.

[RedDog]

geez - its a good thing boating season is hitting lands north of FL! A lot of touchy people around here.

Now my limited two cents - I have a 25" Mirage+ and a 25" Turbo I. On my '98 22C, Bravo I, I can't tell a noticeable difference handling or speed wise.

[osur866]

please Steve.

Can't really theorize on the prop slip at mid-range, w/o experiencing it for myself, but some others might try here.
I have never run Q&Q at anything, but idle on my boat.

The blow out thingy is a finesse deal that I deal with on the bigger boat. Can give you some tips there.

I do want a ride.

I hear that Poodle has the magic elixer in this new prop oil,
so we can give that a shot while we are at it.

See you at the lake.
Todd, you will have a reservation for a ride for sure if Jill takes me for one in the Scorp.!! Steve

[Cuda]

OK boys and girls....the person who gave me negative rep and this comment "I'm a mod on a Harley site, stay out of this" can kiss my A$$.
I don't care if you're a moderator of a bycycle seat sniffing forum, I'm entitled to post my opinion of the overall tenor of the thread. I don't think I mentioned anyone by name, only that this whole thread is a bloody wate of time. I am and will remain entitled to my opinion!
I have never given anyone a negative for stating an opinion. I guess some folks have much thinner skin. Just put your tin foil cap back on.
Everything is good.
Easy, G. I've got a script for valium if you need some. :)