502 Mag intake destruction

[Tidbart]

As some of you know, we went on a trip recently across the OWW for Ft Myers to Stuart and back. Three boats left and only two returned. Here is why.......OUCH!

This first group is of the heads after I removed the intake and cleaned up some of the goop.

[Tidbart]

This second group is of the intake-gone-bad....

If you look closely at the second to last photo, you can see the 1/4 inch hole that sucked in the St Lucie Waterway. As a result of the water ingestion, several other boats went aground due to a lower water level.:doh::shocking:
I saved all the water and brought is home with me.:garfield:

[Tidbart]

Any guesses on whether I can salvage the heads?

Obviously, there is no salvaging the intake manifold.

B

[MOP]

Mercury in their infinite wisdom coated the water passage with copper, anyone that know even a little about electrolysis knows they created a problem for any boat running raw cooling in salt water. The problem even pops up in some fresh water locations, the manifold last I checked was on the + side of $500.00. Why the coated it is a mystery, a plain aluminum intake lasts quite a bit longer. Go Figure!!!

Phil

[Last Real Texan]

Wtf....

[Cuda]

Is the intake cast iron, or aluminum? Either way, I don't see it buiding up enough pressure to shoot out the oil as you decribe. I'd go ahead and pull the heads anyway. The intake is harder. Just 16 more bolts to pull, per side.

[MOP]

Any guesses on whether I can salvage the heads?

Obviously, there is no salvaging the intake manifold.

B

How badly are the heads burned/corroded, I have seen them patched with fillers. I know of one set that they tried to weld and cracked them. If you go the patch route you need to pull the heads and blast the bad area fill it and mill it back down for a good fit.

Phil

[olredalert]

------I dont know, Phil. A decent pair of correct #s automotive, used heads make it almost a no brainer to use his current heads as anchors. Even new iron heads made in the aftermarket probably flow much better (CFM wise) and are pretty darn cheap. It may be just me but I would never use the heads I have seen in his pics.
------You are, however, right on the money about those stupid copper-jacketed intakes. Ive been seeing those in the same swap spaces at the Carlisle swap meets for years now. They are sale-proof!!!.........Bill S

[BUIZILLA]

A decent pair of correct #s automotive, used heads make it almost a no brainer to use his current heads as anchors. Even new iron heads made in the aftermarket probably flow much better (CFM wise) and are pretty darn cheap. It may be just me but I would never use the heads I have seen in his pics. word...

[The Hedgehog]

I have some 502 heads for cheap if you want them.

[Tidbart]

I took a closer look at the manifold and heads. It appears that no water flows normally through the rear ports just the front ones. All the corrosion is on the rear ones. The fronts look fine, on the intake.

I took the gaskets off the heads and started to clean them up. They appear to be ok other than the rear ports being clogged with oxidixed aluminum junk that come out like paste.

Here are some more photos. The first two are the heads after the gaskets were removed.

The others show the holes in the rear of the intake, amazing how the gunk filled the hole and didn't allow water through the intake into the the engine compartment.

The last two are repeats of the two front intake ports, the ones that allow water flow, they aren't all that bad compared to the rears.

Bob

[Tidbart]

------I dont know, Phil. A decent pair of correct #s automotive, used heads make it almost a no brainer to use his current heads as anchors. Even new iron heads made in the aftermarket probably flow much better (CFM wise) and are pretty darn cheap. It may be just me but I would never use the heads I have seen in his pics.
------You are, however, right on the money about those stupid copper-jacketed intakes. Ive been seeing those in the same swap spaces at the Carlisle swap meets for years now. They are sale-proof!!!.........Bill S


Jim, Bill, others

Seeing the new pictures and the condition of the heads, would you still say replace them?? They look pretty good.
Am I not looking for more problems if I replace the heads with new tight ones, without now doing the rings, etc? At some point, if I keep going, I have to stop and consider the $$$, and think about a repower.

B

[gcarter]

This may or may not be a manifold you could use;
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MERCRUISER-7-4-MPI-LOWER-INTAKE-MANIFOLD-WITH-INJECTORS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ50442QQihZ015 QQitemZ250241059819QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

I can't remember, is a 502 a tall block? If it is, then this wouldn't work.

[Cuda]

I doubt you need a total rebuild, but that far in, I'd definetely pull the heads, and check the headgaskets.

I guess the guy didn't believe much in flushing. Here's what my 26 year old heads look like.

[Cuda]

This may or may not be a manifold you could use;
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MERCRUISER-7-4-MPI-LOWER-INTAKE-MANIFOLD-WITH-INJECTORS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ50442QQihZ015 QQitemZ250241059819QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
I can't remember, is a 502 a tall block? If it is, then this wouldn't work.
No, a 502 is not a tall block.

[Mr X]

Bob,
the heads look fine to me.
But you might want to put some grape jelly on that manifold, cause it's toast!

[Tidbart]

Bob,
the heads look fine to me.
But you might want to put some grape jelly on that manifold, cause it's toast!

Well, it almost dinner time!:doh:

B

[MOP]

Looking over the photos again it is a little hard to see what is really going with the heads, it would be nice to see the back water passage areas cleaned up, get all the aluminum mess cleaned off & out then shot a pic and post it. Ted could very well be right the heads may not need to be trashed, the ones I have seen the back passages were not destroyed, the fronts were eaten away.

[Barry Eller]

I had my Weiand Stealth intake anodized for salt water usage. The original GM alum intake that was on the old 454HO had corroded so in one passage that it had cracked a wall in the port. I'm also using Salt-a-Way each time I flush. If you pull the heads, you might consider a valve job. Valve springs that have been getting damp will get weak and will break.

[The Hedgehog]

Bob,
the heads look fine to me.
But you might want to put some grape jelly on that manifold, cause it's toast!

Agreed. Take a close look at the heads while you have them off. They look ok.

The manifold on the other hand! ouch.

[Cuda]

I don't know how long I had standard Merlin intakes on the Formula. They were on there when I bought it, and I had it over five years. Just a couple months before I sold it, I pulled the thermostadt housing off, to check for corrosion. I didn't see a sign of it. I usually put some Dawn in the hose, and flushed with it. I knew when it quit bubbling, it was totally flushed. And I'd flush it some more.

[Tidbart]

I am in the process of cleaning out all the leftover goop. I just pulled one valve cover and that steel pan from below the manifold. I have remove all the goop I could, 99.9%, and then sprayed them down with WD-40, same for under the pan. Other valve cover tomorrow.

Here are the photos I took after the cover removal.

I will be back at it tomorrow afternoon.

[Tidbart]

Cuda,

I am sure the diesel fuel helped.

B

[mrfixxall]

This may or may not be a manifold you could use;
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MERCRUISER-7-4-MPI-LOWER-INTAKE-MANIFOLD-WITH-INJECTORS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ50442QQihZ015 QQitemZ250241059819QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
I can't remember, is a 502 a tall block? If it is, then this wouldn't work.


If the 502 is a 9.800 deck height then it would be considered a tall deck:wink:

[Mr X]

If the 502 is a 9.800 deck height then it would be considered a tall deck:wink:

Nope, 9.80 is NOT a tall deck.

http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/performance_parts/store/catalog/Product.jhtmlPRODID=336&CATID=343.html

[mrfixxall]

Nope, 9.80 is NOT a tall deck.
http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/performance_parts/store/catalog/Product.jhtmlPRODID=336&CATID=343.html


oops got my # screwed up,,,10.200 would be a tall deck:bonk:

[Jamesbon]

Hopefully, that corroded intake was your problem. I'd be willing to bet, you'll be okay after replacing it. Our local mechanics down here in "saltwaterville," are accustomed to this. They say those intakes on the MPI motors are usually only good for a handful of years. Seems that anything "7ish" years old is on borrowed time. (in saltwater)

I can't believe these guys who never flush their engines in boats that stay in the water. Supposedly if "air" isn't introduced into the raw water passages they won't corrode...Oh contrare... (spelling?)

The only motors we typically see with over a thousand hours are freshwater cooled. One exception was an 82 Carver 30 with 1400 hours on raw water cooled Ford 302's. She was owned by a former U.S. Marine who RELIGIOUSLY flushed her after every use. ...go figure

I hate to tear down my good running 99 7.4 MAG MPI, but if I make it through this season, I'll probably take her out inspect and TWEAK. Like some of you, I also use Saltaway for every flush. Hopefully it helps...

Best of luck Bob, if you need help with anything, just holler.

By the way, your boat is SAWEEEEET!

[sweet 16 1966]

Sorry to hear about the boat Bob. Hope its not too extensive.
Listening closely since I believe I have a 502 (OL611702)

[Tidbart]

This may or may not be a manifold you could use;
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MERCRUISER-7-4-MPI-LOWER-INTAKE-MANIFOLD-WITH-INJECTORS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ50442QQihZ015 QQitemZ250241059819QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

I can't remember, is a 502 a tall block? If it is, then this wouldn't work.

Meant to reply earlier. Not the same manifold. Mine has 4 hi-rise intakes on it.
B

[Tidbart]

Hopefully, that corroded intake was your problem. I'd be willing to bet, you'll be okay after replacing it. Our local mechanics down here in "saltwaterville," are accustomed to this. They say those intakes on the MPI motors are usually only good for a handful of years. Seems that anything "7ish" years old is on borrowed time. (in saltwater)

Best of luck Bob, if you need help with anything, just holler.

By the way, your boat is SAWEEEEET!

Thanks Nate. Looks so far to be the problem. I will keep this post going as I move along.

Interesting that the manifold corroded away where the water is blocked off. Buizilla and I spoke about a possible solution for the next one. Will keep you posted.

Nate, an indicator of the same type of problem as I have. Look at the rear manifold bolts, down back of the engine, hard to get to see. Look for signs of gray paste forming in the area. That is what mine did prior to this event.

Bob

[Tidbart]

Sorry to hear about the boat Bob. Hope its not too extensive.
Listening closely since I believe I have a 502 (OL611702)

I'll assume you meant expensive??

new manifold-$1800 -2000
used, hopefully in good shape $500??

Bob

[smokediver]

i saw an intake on ebay for around 500 bucks , just look around .. if i run across something i will let you know ! hope you are back in the water soon !!!!!

[MOP]

Bob I have a hunch you will come out just fine, you may want to consider putting an exchanger on. If you do run a couple of changes of water through with salt away then put a light anti freeze mix in to that will end the manifold problems.

Phil

[Tidbart]

Bob I have a hunch you will come out just fine, you may want to consider putting an exchanger on. If you do run a couple of changes of water through with salt away then put a light anti freeze mix in to that will end the manifold problems.

Phil

Phil

What kind of job is that?

Bob

[mjw930]

Just a note on those used fleabay intakes. If the life expectancy is in the 7ish year range then how much are you actually saving by putting on a 3,4 or 5 year old used intake?

[The Hedgehog]

Just a note on those used fleabay intakes. If the life expectancy is in the 7ish year range then how much are you actually saving by putting on a 3,4 or 5 year old used intake?

Pending on salt water usage.

My 10 year old intake looked new when I took it off

[mjw930]

Pending on salt water usage.

My 10 year old intake looked new when I took it off

Sorry, living in FL I assume salt water use :doh:

[The Hedgehog]

Sorry, living in FL I assume salt water use :doh:

You do have a point though. I am constantly amazed what used manifolds and headers bring on e-bay even with salt water usage.

I see lots of exhaust stuff going at 80%+ cost of new. That is crazy. I have jumped in before thinking that 40% of new might be a risk worth taking, get out at 55% and see them go at 80%. Heck, you could pay 20% more to know it is good and have a warranty.

[MOP]

Once it is back together you can convert it over in about 4-6 hours, many will say not to switch after salt use but I have seen awful lot that worked out just fine.

[gcarter]

The cost of a new manifold will EASILY pay for a closed cooling system!!!!!!! :eek!:

[Team Jefe]

Bob - I'm a little late in the game here, and I have no input on how Good the heads are, but I do know welding and IF the heads are cast and IF they need build-up repair, that will be VERY hard to get right.

Technically, it can be done (they taught us that in School), but it is extremely hard and not very reliable in most cases...Generally, the weld will crack even before the welder is finished with it...Be careful.

[Team Jefe]

I don't know how long I had standard Merlin intakes on the Formula. They were on there when I bought it, and I had it over five years. Just a couple months before I sold it, I pulled the thermostadt housing off, to check for corrosion. I didn't see a sign of it. I usually put some Dawn in the hose, and flushed with it. I knew when it quit bubbling, it was totally flushed. And I'd flush it some more.

Amen, Brother Cuda.....Dad taught me a long time ago..there is no such thing as flushing TOO much. And you Florida boys have nice clear saline...not the Salty Chocolate Milk we have around here.

[olredalert]

-----Bob,,,I might revise my opinion on the heads once you send them out to find out about them. There is probably a case to be made for checking deck straightness here. Also wonder about the deck being parallel to crank, and head warpage. Sorry to throw any curves at you but do you think the bearings may be compromised??? Thats a lot of milk to have passed over your bearings to suffer absolutely no damage. Im assuming you already have had a looky at the cylinder walls.........Bill S

-----Just went back and looked at your pics and may have assumed too much as I see the heads havent been removed???

[Tidbart]

Bob - I'm a little late in the game here, and I have no input on how Good the heads are, but I do know welding and IF the heads are cast and IF they need build-up repair, that will be VERY hard to get right.

Technically, it can be done (they taught us that in School), but it is extremely hard and not very reliable in most cases...Generally, the weld will crack even before the welder is finished with it...Be careful.

For now I am going on the assumption that the heads are good. The intake I know is bad as I can see where the water came into the engine. So intake first, then I;ll see if there are head problems, which I doubt.

B

[Tidbart]

-----Bob,,,I might revise my opinion on the heads once you send them out to find out about them. There is probably a case to be made for checking deck straightness here. Also wonder about the deck being parallel to crank, and head warpage. Sorry to throw any curves at you but do you think the bearings may be compromised??? Thats a lot of milk to have passed over your bearings to suffer absolutely no damage. Im assuming you already have had a looky at the cylinder walls.........Bill S

-----Just went back and looked at your pics and may have assumed too much as I see the heads havent been removed???

I haven't removed the heads and don't intend to if it's not necessary. I will just have to wait and see once I get the intake replaced.

B

[mrfixxall]

I haven't removed the heads and don't intend to if it's not necessary. I will just have to wait and see once I get the intake replaced.

B

if it were my boat i would put the x-tra hours in it and pull the heads,most likely the head gaskets are most likely in the same condition..i would probably have them inspected for perosity and throw a valve jod in whyle it was apart..

good luck! :)

[olredalert]

------I may be a worry wart, Bob but you are so close to having the heads off at this point I would caution you to yank them and to get them throughly done and that way refresh the head-gaskets and exhaust manifold gaskets as well. Its just so easy at this point. Good luck no matter which way you decide.......Bill S

[MOP]

Bob you are on track, I can't count how many sinkers, bad head gasket and what ever wet engines I have resurrected without pulling the heads or many not even the valve covers Chit just does not happen that quick. The pic's don't seem to show anything spooky, go with it!

[Cuda]

The cost of a new manifold will EASILY pay for a closed cooling system!!!!!!! :eek!:
Then good luck getting in to the bilge. I frigging hated my CC SBC because of that. In retrospect, I could have bought a new intake manifold every year for 6 years.

[Cuda]

Bob, there is no doubt that I would pull the heads now. The hardest part is done, and for peace of mind, I pull the heads, have them checked out, and new head gaskets. No way I'd quit right there.

[Jamesbon]

Not to fuel the fire, but we've seen this same problem many times. "Usually," if the engine's pickled in time, it's okay to just replace the intake. Sure, it's never a bad idea to pull the heads and possibly the lower end, but in this case, we'd bet he's okay with a new intake.

Let's just hope so....

By the way, Bob, I found a 1999 502 MAG MPI EFI set-up on craigslist. Did you get the e-mail?

[Cuda]

Not to fuel the fire, but we've seen this same problem many times. "Usually," if the engine's pickled in time, it's okay to just replace the intake. Sure, it's never a bad idea to pull the heads and possibly the lower end, but in this case, we'd bet he's okay with a new intake.

Let's just hope so....

By the way, Bob, I found a 1999 502 MAG MPI EFI set-up on craigslist. Did you get the e-mail?
Maybe the heads are fine. If any of that water from the intake, made it to the backside of the valves, I don't doubt there will be a compression problem further down the road, as rust develops around the seat. I know that from experience. :( Btw, to rebuild a set of SBC heads, and have them checked at a machine shop, only cost me $150, the head gaskets were damn near that much. Not much work, or expense, for the peace of mind, not to mention, having to pull the intake again, if the compression goes low.

Remember, that watery oil went down the valve guides, and rust never sleeps. It doesn't take much rust around the valve seats to lose compression. You'll see it get worse, and worse, as the rust develops.

[Tidbart]

Not to fuel the fire, but we've seen this same problem many times. "Usually," if the engine's pickled in time, it's okay to just replace the intake. Sure, it's never a bad idea to pull the heads and possibly the lower end, but in this case, we'd bet he's okay with a new intake.

Let's just hope so....

By the way, Bob, I found a 1999 502 MAG MPI EFI set-up on craigslist. Did you get the e-mail?

Nate,

No I didn't get the email.
tidbitnh@yahoo.com

Bob

[olredalert]

------Bob,,,Aside from about the only guy older than me on the sight are you beginning to see a trend here???........Bill S

[mrfixxall]

Maybe the heads are fine. If any of that water from the intake, made it to the backside of the valves, I don't doubt there will be a compression problem further down the road, as rust develops around the seat. I know that from experience. :( Btw, to rebuild a set of SBC heads, and have them checked at a machine shop, only cost me $150, the head gaskets were damn near that much. Not much work, or expense, for the peace of mind, not to mention, having to pull the intake again, if the compression goes low.
Remember, that watery oil went down the valve guides, and rust never sleeps. It doesn't take much rust around the valve seats to lose compression. You'll see it get worse, and worse, as the rust develops.

Yeppers! rust never sleeps.

Heres some pics of one i did at the end of last season that came up from florida with a bad intake..i ended up going through the whole engine due to the excess rust build up from the salt water.. see all the rust in the lifter valley wait til you see how much is getting thrown around in the lower end..your crank and rode probably look the same:wink:

what ever you choose good luck with it

[Tidbart]

------Bob,,,Aside from about the only guy older than me on the sight are you beginning to see a trend here???........Bill S

Yes, I see it and it is well noted. My main concern since this weekend has been to preserve the engine as best I could. Removal of the heads is still part of the equation. Of course my original thinking/hoping was not to have to do more work than I had to under the 'if it ain't broke......' rule.

Here is what I have done the last day or two. Thoroughly clean any and all goop from every place I could see and get to. Coat everything with WD-40 numerous times. Today, with the heads still on, I got an oil pump tool for the distributor. Put 5 quarts of diesel in the block and ran the pump. Stopping occasionally to rotate the motor. Repeated this for about 20 minutes. Then drain the pan and replace the oil filter.
Then I repeated the process again. The second time around most of the white stuff is gone.
Tomorrow I will run one more flush with diesel, replace the filter again, fluid should be totally clear by then. Then I will do a final with motor oil and coat every thoroughly.

Then I can think about the next steps. Heads, intake etc.

Part of my reluctancy has probably been the fact that I have been doing this all alone. I will definitely have to get help with the manifolds and heads if and when they come off.

That's my update for today.

By the way, I really appreciate everyone's help. It is comforting to know that I can count on all you guys, some I don't even know, for advice in a time of need.:yes::):bighug: Thank you! It means alot to me.

[Tidbart]

------Bob,,,Aside from about the only guy older than me on the sight are you beginning to see a trend here???........Bill S


A trend? I think it's an onslaught. LOL:wink:

[mrfixxall]

Yes, I see it and it is well noted. My main concern since this weekend has been to preserve the engine as best I could. Removal of the heads is still part of the equation. Of course my original thinking/hoping was not to have to do more work than I had to under the 'if it ain't broke......' rule.

Here is what I have done the last day or two. Thoroughly clean any and all goop from every place I could see and get to. Coat everything with WD-40 numerous times. Today, with the heads still on, I got an oil pump tool for the distributor. Put 5 quarts of diesel in the block and ran the pump. Stopping occasionally to rotate the motor. Repeated this for about 20 minutes. Then drain the pan and replace the oil filter.
Then I repeated the process again. The second time around most of the white stuff is gone.
Tomorrow I will run one more flush with diesel, replace the filter again, fluid should be totally clear by then. Then I will do a final with motor oil and coat every thoroughly.

Then I can think about the next steps. Heads, intake etc.

Part of my reluctancy has probably been the fact that I have been doing this all alone. I will definitely have to get help with the manifolds and heads if and when they come off.

That's my update for today.

By the way, I really appreciate everyone's help. It is comforting to know that I can count on all you guys, some I don't even know, for advice in a time of need.:yes::):bighug: Thank you! It means alot to me.

Try pulliing a lifter or two and looking into the crankcase beyond the the canshaft to see if your lower end whipped a greecy mess,, when the engine rotates with all the water thats in the oil it turns into a greecy looking mess and somtimes you have to run the engine and warm it up to get rid of it.

[MOP]

If it ain't broke don't fix it! In the 30+ years that I was on the wrenches all in salt I never tore one apart that had been pickled properly or pulled up and started right away. I feel Bob has done a decent job in fact more then most marinas do to save a motor, can't believe some insist on tearing into the engine more then he has.

[Tidbart]

Try pulliing a lifter or two and looking into the crankcase beyond the the canshaft to see if your lower end whipped a greecy mess,, when the engine rotates with all the water thats in the oil it turns into a greecy looking mess and somtimes you have to run the engine and warm it up to get rid of it.

Question for you, as I really haven't gotten this deep into an engine for a very long time and when I did it was with someone who new what they were doing. Excuse the lack of proper terminology. Below the big pan, which I removed, at the bottom of the rods are the lifters, correct? There is a small steel pan on the bottom of the valley with 3 or bolt in it, not sure of its function. If I remove that pan, the cam is just below it. What does the small pan do and if I remove it and expose the cam, can I see into the lower engine for a visual?

Bob

[Tidbart]

If it ain't broke don't fix it! In the 30+ years that I was on the wrenches all in salt I never tore one apart that had been pickled properly or pulled up and started right away. I feel Bob has done a decent job in fact more then most marinas do to save a motor, can't believe some insist on tearing into the engine more then he has.

Thanks for the positive feedback Phil. Tomorrow, I will get some update photos of what I am seeing and post them.

Have a good night all.

B

[Tidbart]

PS. A special thanks to Buizilla for talking me through alot of these things over the phone.

B

[BUIZILLA]

that tray should be the roller lifter guide plate.... if you have roller lifters...

[mrfixxall]

Question for you, as I really haven't gotten this deep into an engine for a very long time and when I did it was with someone who new what they were doing. Excuse the lack of proper terminology. Below the big pan, which I removed, at the bottom of the rods are the lifters, correct? There is a small steel pan on the bottom of the valley with 3 or bolt in it, not sure of its function. If I remove that pan, the cam is just below it. What does the small pan do and if I remove it and expose the cam, can I see into the lower engine for a visual?

Bob

Yes remove the lifter valley tray then remove the steel roller lifter guide plate hold down and simply remove the lifters but dont mix them up,make sure they go back in the same holes..

Yes some of the suggestions others on here may be correct but its vary costly if it just so happens to fail..
Take into consideration how many hours are on the engine and how hard do you run the boat and how long water from
the intake manifold has been leaking into the oil..we all just dont know if it has caused other damage to the engine,correct me if im wrong but isnt salt water slightly gritty like a vary fine sand after it looses all its moisture.
good luck:)

[obsessed1]

I'll assume you meant expensive??

new manifold-$1800 -2000
used, hopefully in good shape $500??

Bob
Are you still looking for an intake or have you found one?

Rob

[Tidbart]

Are you still looking for an intake or have you found one?

Rob

Rob

No I haven't found one yet. I have been talking with a couple of people, but nothing solid yet.

Let me know if you have a lead.

Thanks, Bob

[Tidbart]

Yes remove the lifter valley tray then remove the steel roller lifter guide plate hold down and simply remove the lifters but dont mix them up,make sure they go back in the same holes..

Yes some of the suggestions others on here may be correct but its vary costly if it just so happens to fail..
Take into consideration how many hours are on the engine and how hard do you run the boat and how long water from
the intake manifold has been leaking into the oil..we all just dont know if it has caused other damage to the engine,correct me if im wrong but isnt salt water slightly gritty like a vary fine sand after it looses all its moisture.
good luck:)

Just to clarify the events of this occurrence. I ran about 120 miles across fresh water, went through a lock into brackish, ran about 1/2 mile mostly at idle. Engine started to run slightly rough. Alarm went off, I opened hatch, saw spew, shut down. My guess is that some water is fresh and some brackish.
Also, after getting it home and trying to get the foam out, I refilled the crank with oil and diesel mix and ran it for a couple minutes, twice actually, to loosen/ dilute the crap and drained it.

Bob

[Tidbart]

Here are some update photos after the third diesel wash.
What I noticed is the difference in perspective the flash gives over the shop lights. You can see the surface rust more readily.:garfield:

Bob

[Tidbart]

Preservation is about as done as I can do it to this point. Just drained the last diesel, put in new filter, number 5 or 6, and put motor oil in and circulated for a some time while turning the crank. I am beat, going for a drink.:beer:

sober and out.

B

[obsessed1]

Rob

No I haven't found one yet. I have been talking with a couple of people, but nothing solid yet.

Let me know if you have a lead.

Thanks, Bob
Bob,
I sold my complete efi and heads off of my 94 502 mag efi to my neighbor down the road last summer. Fresh water with 160 hrs on efi. He stopped by 2 weeks ago and said he was selling everything that i had sold him. I will call him tomorrow to see what he wants for it. What year is your motor?

[Tidbart]

Bob,
I sold my complete efi and heads off of my 94 502 mag efi to my neighbor down the road last summer. Fresh water with 160 hrs on efi. He stopped by 2 weeks ago and said he was selling everything that i had sold him. I will call him tomorrow to see what he wants for it. What year is your motor?

1997.

[olredalert]

-------Wow Bob! I hope that top end is available for you.
-------I think the guys would agree with me that your engine may have been injesting small amounts of water quite awhile before your trip across the state. When you made that prolonged run you finally shook the system up enough to open the pinholes up. Knowing where you generally run (fresh or salt) may be as important as where you ran that day.........Bill S

[obsessed1]

1997.
Bob,


Just got off the phone with the neighbor. He has it all still. Im pretty sure, but not posative that the lower intake on the 94 is the same as the 97. Mabe you or someone else would know. If you are interested in it give me a call at 847-613-7319.Thanks.


Rob

[Tidbart]

-------Wow Bob! I hope that top end is available for you.
-------I think the guys would agree with me that your engine may have been injesting small amounts of water quite awhile before your trip across the state. When you made that prolonged run you finally shook the system up enough to open the pinholes up. Knowing where you generally run (fresh or salt) may be as important as where you ran that day.........Bill S

Bill

2 days before trip, I ran it in salt for a couple hours in Naples. Prior to that I ran it in fresh water for a few hours. I did check the oil before heading to Naples and Fort Myers and it was clean and clear.

If it started ingesting water prior to that OWW run, I wouldn't think I would have made it 130 miles in 5 hours of continous running.

This is a salt water boat, at least for the past 5 years. I just got it in October. Knowing the previous owner kept the boat in Fl and lived in MI and had a storage place take care of it, I would expect to see trace amounts of surface rust in places due to it not being fogged when stored for months at a time.

B

[BigGrizzly]

Bob I do think it was ingesting small amounts of water but not much until the big hole. When corrosion starts it never sleeps. This is the main reason I use a closed cooling system. You see unless you flush with an open T-stat for a half hour there is still salt in the engine. This is also the reason the 496 has a closed system! I know I am opening myself to a long discussion but I would use a closed system with at least 50/50 antifreeze and water. I won't discuss this point because it is in the archives so anyone who wants more information on why look it up, my hands get tired re typing it all!

[Tidbart]

Bob I do think it was ingesting small amounts of water but not much until the big hole. When corrosion starts it never sleeps. This is the main reason I use a closed cooling system. You see unless you flush with an open T-stat for a half hour there is still salt in the engine. This is also the reason the 496 has a closed system! I know I am opening myself to a long discussion but I would use a closed system with at least 50/50 antifreeze and water. I won't discuss this point because it is in the archives so anyone who wants more information on why look it up, my hands get tired re typing it all!

Hey Grizz

I will consider a closed system in the future. But for now, I have to concentrate on what I have, a bit of a mess.

B

By the way, Ranya says hello.

[BigGrizzly]

If you need information or want to discuss something I am always open to your calls Home 706-216-8194 after 6:00 Pm or cell 770-318-1136.

[Tidbart]

Thanks Grizz. Your the best.

B

[Tidbart]

B,

Should fit according to my records.. Original was a 805233A 2, changed to a 805233A 6. There is a third, later model version, 861300A 2 that is considerably less $$ BTW.. I would have to do some legwork to see if that one will fit your application..

That is what I showed in my research. I didn't know about the 300A model.

I have a few things in the works, don't spend any time on the third one just yet. I have a couple of tests left to do over the next couple of days to help direct my purchasing decisions. I will post them as I get the results.

B

[Tidbart]

Bob,


Just got off the phone with the neighbor. He has it all still. Im pretty sure, but not posative that the lower intake on the 94 is the same as the 97. Mabe you or someone else would know. If you are interested in it give me a call at 847-613-7319.Thanks.


Rob

Rob,

Sorry, been busy. Meant to call yesterday. I'll try and give you a call later today.

Bob

[obsessed1]

Rob,

Sorry, been busy. Meant to call yesterday. I'll try and give you a call later today.

Bob
Bob,
Heres the pictures you requested. The intake manifold gasket area still has some kind of gasket material that needs to be removed/cleaned. You can tell what I mean by the brown areas all over. The part number on the manifold is 805233c from what I can see. I would have taken some time to clean it but the neighbor was in a hurry. The pictures dont really do it justice. Let me know.


Rob

[Tidbart]

Bob,
Heres the pictures you requested. The intake manifold gasket area still has some kind of gasket material that needs to be removed/cleaned. You can tell what I mean by the brown areas all over. The part number on the manifold is 805233c from what I can see. I would have taken some time to clean it but the neighbor was in a hurry. The pictures dont really do it justice. Let me know.


Rob


Rob

Thanks for getting those photos. It really is a shame about the heads. I have a another test left to do and will get back to you soon.

Bob

[Tidbart]

I made a leakdown tester and did the test on each cylinder.
Here is what I got in percentages using 100 psi:
1 95
8 95
4 93
3 95
6 95
5 94
7 95
2 95

If I did this correctly, and I think I did, the numbers look pretty good.

Anyone care to comment.

Bob

[Cuda]

Hey Grizz

I will consider a closed system in the future. But for now, I have to concentrate on what I have, a bit of a mess.

B

By the way, Ranya says hello.
I don't know if you should put CC on after that much salt usage. The block itself, will absorb salt, and if you put CC on it, it willl leach out the salt, making you coolant into brine. I know for a fact that the salt gets in the block itself. Once, I pulled a set of heads off a raw water cooler saltwater engine. I had the heads off for about a month, and where the coolant runs through the block, there were small pyramids of pure salt, that must have leached out due to the moisture in the air. This is not second hand iformation, I had pictures of it one time, that I have since lost. It was amazing really. Like I said, the engines in my Formula were 22 years old, and 99% of that was salt usage. Just have to flush, then flush some more.

[MOP]

Bob go with a cooler, it is far easier having a cooler boiled out when you see the temp creeping up then going through this again. I have put coolers on several all salt motors with good results, Run a mix of salt away for a week or so then flush and put 30% antifreeze that will stop any further corrosion in the block. You do not want to go through this again in a few years.

Phil

[MOP]

A P.S. use the GM type anti freeze it is formulated to protect mixed metal engine with more aluminum then we run. That is what I run in my mouse stroker motor.

[Cuda]

Bob go with a cooler, it is far easier having a cooler boiled out when you see the temp creeping up then going through this again. I have put coolers on several all salt motors with good results, Run a mix of salt away for a week or so then flush and put 30% antifreeze that will stop any further corrosion in the block. You do not want to go through this again in a few years.
Phil
I respectfully disagree. I don't think he'd ever get all the salt out of the block, and I think it would just compound his problem. I'm telling you, it looked like someone took a pound of salt, and made those pyramids I saw on that engine, and that was only the salt I could see. I have no doubt there was more.

[BigGrizzly]

Actually with what Mop said is correct. Trick is the salt away it is good stuff. remember the intake is trash which is the main salt keeper, the iron block is scaled and Salt away or salt terminator will take care of that. However I run 50% antifreeze in anything aluminum. Learned this at Honda, anything less and cylinder heads(aluminum in Hondas) have a problem, mainly because og heat. Anyway I use that blend in my engines, no over heating and no other problems after 6 years. To clarify what Cuda says in the older pre mid 70's blocks had a different iron Bock mixture that was more porous and had the salt retention problem especially in the 1960's and earlier.

[Tidbart]

B,

Should fit according to my records.. Original was a 805233A 2, changed to a 805233A 6. There is a third, later model version, 861300A 2 that is considerably less $$ BTW.. I would have to do some legwork to see if that one will fit your application..


Found some info on the newer manifold. It was used on the last series on 502s OL085433.......+. The diff is in the fuel system. They changed the injectors to a GM? type from the Keihin type. What that means is that I can't use my fuel system with that intake.:garfield: As to why it so significantly cheaper, I haven't the slightest.

B

[Tidbart]

One hurdle down, intake is being shipped in next day or two, should be here next week sometime.

Next step, retest the leakdown with a second tester, just to verify the good readings. If they are still OK, then I am going to leave the heads on and replace the valve springs and shields. Tired springs are the possible cause of lower than expected rpms.

:crossfing:Then hopefully, if all goes well, put it back together, get her running, do another oil change or two. Go from there.

[MOP]

Chin up Bob it will all come out in the WASH!

[mrfixxall]

Bob,
Heres the pictures you requested. The intake manifold gasket area still has some kind of gasket material that needs to be removed/cleaned. You can tell what I mean by the brown areas all over. The part number on the manifold is 805233c from what I can see. I would have taken some time to clean it but the neighbor was in a hurry. The pictures dont really do it justice. Let me know.


Rob


rob,,the brown rings are when merc casted brass into the water ports,so their their for the long haul:)

[Tidbart]

rob,,the brown rings are when merc casted brass into the water ports,so their their for the long haul:)

Spoke with Rob (obsessed1)this evening. He is hooking me up! The brown areas he was referring to was the leftover gasket sealing matter the needs to be cleaned up. No big deal.


Kudos to Rob for being a big help with his neighbor's parts. He is even taking care of the shipping for his neighbor. This guy is stand-up. Hope I get to meet him at an event someday.:beer: I bought a package deal of the intake and plenum, got spares.

Poodle, thanks again for the offer, but I got another leakdown tester to use.

I'll keep you posted.

B

[Mr X]

Bob,
you check the hours?

[Tidbart]

Bob,
you check the hours?

I knew I forgot something. Yes, I did Ted.
324.3 - 17 or so that I have used it. So that is 307 when I got it. I was told about 200. Either way, neither number is bad or excessive.
Tool worked perfectly, pretty neat setup. A must with the MPIs. You got another one hanging around somewhere?:doh::wink:
Thanks again.
Bob

[Cuda]

Best of luck Bob. If you need a rope monkey, when you get it running, give me a call.

[Mr X]

Bob,
I might not need that anymore with the ILMOR....
I bought it here.

http://www.rinda.com/marine/marine.htm

[Tidbart]

Ted

Let's talk tomorrow.

B

[Tidbart]

Best of luck Bob. If you need a rope monkey, when you get it running, give me a call.

I will do that. I think some fresh water running would be a good idea.:doh:

B

[obsessed1]

One hurdle down, intake is being shipped in next day or two, should be here next week sometime.

Next step, retest the leakdown with a second tester, just to verify the good readings. If they are still OK, then I am going to leave the heads on and replace the valve springs and shields. Tired springs are the possible cause of lower than expected rpms.

:crossfing:Then hopefully, if all goes well, put it back together, get her running, do another oil change or two. Go from there.
Bob,

Worked late today and didnt get a chamce to package/ship. Sorry. I will have it out tomorrow for sure. Sorry for any inconvenience this may give you. Ill call you as planned. Thanks.

Rob

[Tidbart]

Bob,

Worked late today and didnt get a chamce to package/ship. Sorry. I will have it out tomorrow for sure. Sorry for any inconvenience this may give you. Ill call you as planned. Thanks.

Rob

No problem.:)

B

[Cuda]

I will do that. I think some fresh water running would be a good idea.:doh:

B
Do that. Haul it over here, and we can run north from the ramp 1/2 mile from my house to Astor. 17 miles of just gorgeous river to run in, with absolutely no developement of either side of the river. The west side is Ocala National Forest all the way, and the east side is the Jim Woodruff National Wildlife Preserve all the way, then if you want, we can go three miles north of Astor, and go into Lake George, and hit either Silver Glen on the southwest corner, or go anther 13 mile up the lake, and hit Porky's for lunch on the north west corner. :) There is no speed limit on the lake.

[Tidbart]

Little update.

Borrowed another leakdown tester an retested the heads/cylinders, outcome not so good. Determination, pull the engine. Spent the last 2 day doing that. Yes, it 2 day to get the motor out. Had to build a structure into the roof trusses to lift the engine out, needed lots of height.

So I finally got the engine out, and was lowering it down with a cable jack, on click at a time. Jack slipped a tooth and caught me just above the left eye with the handle. :wink: You can call me Scarface from now on. Accidents can happen at any time! I was so careful too.

Next stop, pull the accessories off and heads and go from there.


Bob:wink:

[Cuda]

Little update.

Borrowed another leakdown tester an retested the heads/cylinders, outcome not so good. Determination, pull the engine. Spent the last 2 day doing that. Yes, it 2 day to get the motor out. Had to build a structure into the roof trusses to lift the engine out, needed lots of height.

So I finally got the engine out, and was lowering it down with a cable jack, on click at a time. Jack slipped a tooth and caught me just above the left eye with the handle. :wink: You can call me Scarface from now on. Accidents can happen at any time! I was so careful too.

Next stop, pull the accessories off and heads and go from there.


Bob:wink:
If I'd have done that working on an engine with my dad, he would just tell me, "Don't bleed on the machinery!" :)

[Cuda]

I'd have just pulled the heads, before I pulled the engine. My bet is on a bad head gasket.

[Tidbart]

Here are some updated photos. Pulled the engine, tore it down. Still have one head to go. Rusted bolts suck.

First photo, jack didn't go high enough.:doh::hangum: Had to rig something to the trusses. Rest are of the motor. Spooge was all gone, some left in the bottom of the pan.

B

Got the new-to-me intake today. Looks great. Thanks once again to Rob (obsessed1).

[Tidbart]

Interesting burn patterns.. Not sure I like the two right side cyl's..

Go for the Cometic haed gaskets on reassembly.. Pricey.. Worth more than they cost IMO..

Got a not on the Cometics. Forgot to post pic of cylinder and top of pistons.

What do you mean by burn pattern?
B

[MOP]

Don't see anything scary just a lot of senseless work, from the pics it looks as I suspected it would. The low pressure leak down readings were very good, high pressure leak down should be done with the engine warmed up just like a compression. A cold block will rarely give proper readings. My money still stands on should have just gotten it running, you would have never known it had gotten wet. It is not like I have not done way to many of these and I am talking all salt full submersions some down for several days that the engine came out fine, they lost the wiring & electronics etc but ran fine for many years afterwards. Even outboards usually come through a sinking if caught soon enough, only the real early John/Rudes that had the magnesium crank case filler blocks had to come apart.

[Tidbart]

Don't see anything scary just a lot of senseless work, from the pics it looks as I suspected it would. The low pressure leak down readings were very good, high pressure leak down should be done with the engine warmed up just like a compression. A cold block will rarely give proper readings. My money still stands on should have just gotten it running, you would have never known it had gotten wet. It is not like I have not done way to many of these and I am talking all salt full submersions some down for several days that the engine came out fine, they lost the wiring & electronics etc but ran fine for many years afterwards. Even outboards usually come through a sinking if caught soon enough, only the real early John/Rudes that had the magnesium crank case filler blocks had to come apart.

Phil

There was more to the story than I had time to post. The second time I did the leakdown, with a better tester, the results were a lot different. They were more in the 30-40% range. Also, rust was also everywhere around the block and had eaten away at a few of the head bolt and brackets, etc. It was my decision based on these items, as well as a few more, like painting the bilge, that led me to do it now. I agree, from what I am seeing first hand, that there would have been no problem getting the engine up and running without problems.

My decision is based on my gut and the future I want to have with the boat. Taking it apart now is solves a few issues for me, 1: now I know the condition of my motor, removes the guessing 2: I am learning a lot of new things here 3: I'll be equipped for the next ten years, if I waited a few more years maybe I wouldn't be so lucky when the next item fails. 4: I get to buy more tools!:wink:

Also, the only thing I have spent so far has been my time, which I apparently have a lot of....:doh:.

Bob

I was amazed at how thorough a cleaning job I did as far as the there was no crud to found anywhere in the engine except the bottom of the oil pan.

[olredalert]

------Bob,,,The issues you bring up are the exact same reasons I would have done what you are doing. Piece of mind is important when you are far from land. Heck!!! Its important if your close to the beach. Up here on the river if your boat stops it keeps going at six mph anyway (south). Its a scary feeling thinking you may end up twenty miles away in the Detroit river before you can make land.........Bill S

[Cuda]

Could you see a head gasket leak, or do you think it was rust around the valve seats?

[Tidbart]

Could you see a head gasket leak, or do you think it was rust around the valve seats?

I could see no leaks from the gasket. Frankly, most of the leakdown I could here in the crank, so I would say most of it was the rings.

I'll know more in the near future.

B

[Cuda]

I could see no leaks from the gasket. Frankly, most of the leakdown I could here in the crank, so I would say most of it was the rings.

I'll know more in the near future.

B
The rings would not cause water in the oil, and as MOP said, it's hard to do a leakdown, on a cold engine. My gut feeling is the rings, and cylinders are fine. Maybe a valve job, I'd say.

[Cuda]

Let me correct myself on the last post. You have already asertained the water/oil problem was from the intake. I was thinking about compression, and the fact it was blowing the water/oil out. That still sounds like a headgasket to me, if not a cracked, or warped head/block, which I really doubt.

[mrfixxall]

What is your next step?if you considering on having the engine bored be careful..somtimes when you bora a boat engine you run into perocity which is a pinhole in the casting they run into after the engine is bored.if you go this route speng the extra money on having the block pressure tested ( hot and cold):) hers our guy that does the machine work on BIG TROUBLE Nelson Competition, Tampa, FL (727-321-5756)

[Tidbart]

Found a machine shop in downtown Orlando with some very knowledgable and experienced BBC guys. Just dropped it off this morning. First words out of his mouth was, "Seen worse". That is encouraging.:doh::wink: Next step is to finish tearing it down and inspect and test. Will know more next week.

Bob

[mrfixxall]

Found a machine shop in downtown Orlando with some very knowledgable and experienced BBC guys. Just dropped it off this morning. First words out of his mouth was, "Seen worse". That is encouraging.:doh::wink: Next step is to finish tearing it down and inspect and test. Will know more next week.

Bob

I wish you luck with it:) and everything works out for you..

[Cuda]

What is your next step?if you considering on having the engine bored be careful..somtimes when you bora a boat engine you run into perocity which is a pinhole in the casting they run into after the engine is bored.if you go this route speng the extra money on having the block pressure tested ( hot and cold):) hers our guy that does the machine work on BIG TROUBLE Nelson Competition, Tampa, FL (727-321-5756)
Nelson Brothers is in Pinella County, across the bay from Tampa. That's a Pinellas phone number. I believe they're in Clearwater.

[obsessed1]

Here are some updated photos. Pulled the engine, tore it down. Still have one head to go. Rusted bolts suck.

First photo, jack didn't go high enough.:doh::hangum: Had to rig something to the trusses. Rest are of the motor. Spooge was all gone, some left in the bottom of the pan.

B

Got the new-to-me intake today. Looks great. Thanks once again to Rob (obsessed1). Bob,
Glad I could help. Good luck in your next steps. Rob

[mrfixxall]

Nelson Brothers is in Pinella County, across the bay from Tampa. That's a Pinellas phone number. I believe they're in Clearwater.


6301 46th St, Pinellas Park, FL 33781-5920, but its not nelsen bros...the guy that owns it, his name is kris and his father :)

[Cuda]

6301 46th St, Pinellas Park, FL 33781-5920, but its not nelsen bros...the guy that owns it, his name is kris and his father :)
That's not far from where I lived for 33 years, and my parents still live in the Park. With the Nelson name, they must be related to the Nelson Bros, who have a stellar reputation.

[Tidbart]

Here are some updated photos of the engine. I don't remember if I posted that I found a good shop right here in Orlando, very knowledgeable chevy guys. Anyways, they have been working on the block and heads and I attached a couple of photos. The heads are done and the block is started.

Turns out the heads and block are in great shape. Nothing was damaged in the incident. All that flushing and hard work paid off.:):beer::yippie: The machinist said it the best looking motor, internally, from a boat that took on water that he has ever seen. Turns out, most people bring the motors in weeks after flooding and have never done a thing to them, not even drained them. So most are ruined by the time he gets them.

All the wearable parts are being replaced, seals, bearings, rings, springs, gaskets, timing chain, ARP bolts, cleaned painted, reassembled, etc.

In the meantime, I am cleaning and painting the bilge.:garfield:

I am glad I made the decision to pull the motor. It turns out MOP was correct in that I could have put it back together and run it without all this work, but there were other factors involved that I won't boar you with in making the decision, the main one being knowledge.

Bob

[BigGrizzly]

I think you did the right things from the start. The machinist is correct!! People usually get POed and wait too long and salt water is a real killer Fresh isn't too bad-all depending on how long it is run with it in it. Every time I was going to make a suggestion you were already on top of it, so there was no need. The bright side is that you now really know what you have under the hood and YOU control the maintenance. Great luck.

[MOP]

Bob anti up for a new bump stick package, any other mods can be done later on!

[mrfixxall]

Here are some updated photos of the engine. I don't remember if I posted that I found a good shop right here in Orlando, very knowledgeable chevy guys. Anyways, they have been working on the block and heads and I attached a couple of photos. The heads are done and the block is started.

Turns out the heads and block are in great shape. Nothing was damaged in the incident. All that flushing and hard work paid off.:):beer::yippie: The machinist said it the best looking motor, internally, from a boat that took on water that he has ever seen. Turns out, most people bring the motors in weeks after flooding and have never done a thing to them, not even drained them. So most are ruined by the time he gets them.

All the wearable parts are being replaced, seals, bearings, rings, springs, gaskets, timing chain, ARP bolts, cleaned painted, reassembled, etc.

In the meantime, I am cleaning and painting the bilge.:garfield:

I am glad I made the decision to pull the motor. It turns out MOP was correct in that I could have put it back together and run it without all this work, but there were other factors involved that I won't boar you with in making the decision, the main one being knowledge.

Bob
Whyle its apart have them ck the line bore on the crankshaft,ballance the assembly and zero deck the block(thats worth the 30 hp )

[Tidbart]

Bob anti up for a new bump stick package, any other mods can be done later on!

Phil,
You lost me on that one. What is a bump stick package?

B

[Tidbart]

Whyle its apart have them ck the line bore on the crankshaft,ballance the assembly and zero deck the block(thats worth the 30 hp )

I did inquire about the balancing, what is checking the line bore on the crank and zero decking the block?

In case anyone hasen't noticed, I am not real experienced with engine rebuilds. :wink: My philosophy has always been to keep up with the maintenance so I didn't have to rebuild anything. It has worked up until now.:doh: Although, I couldn't have notice this one coming.:shocking:

Bob

[mrfixxall]

I did inquire about the balancing, what is checking the line bore on the crank and zero decking the block?

In case anyone hasen't noticed, I am not real experienced with engine rebuilds. :wink: My philosophy has always been to keep up with the maintenance so I didn't have to rebuild anything. It has worked up until now.:doh: Although, I couldn't have notice this one coming.:shocking:

Bob
line bore is when they machine the main caps down and line hone where the crankshaft main bearings rest,this trues the crankshaft with the cylinders,i would just havr then check it.. it may not need tobe done..

zero deck is when they machine the serface of where the cylinder heads sit,most pistons are abour .020 in the cylinder below the deck height,machineing it to zero will bump up the compression a little and will give you a better fuel burn whit the end results more power..

[Cuda]

Phil,
You lost me on that one. What is a bump stick package?

B
Camshaft

[Tidbart]

Camshaft

That makes sense.:doh:

You guys kill me. You just can't help but want to beef up the ponies. LOL
My intention is get a great running dependable motor out of the deal. I am not really interested in the 80 mph club. You also have to keep in mind that this is a MPI setup. I just can beef up everything and not have it impact something else. Not as easily beefed as a carbed engine. I spent a couple of days researching the removal of the water circulating pump. Something that simple got a little crazy with the dollars and in the long run wasn't worth the headache as I have 2 sensors in the thermostat housing that need to be there or it will drive the ECM nuts.

Anyways, for me to get a good running dependable engine is priceless. I am not saying that I couldn't have the same after upgrades and all the input and suggestions have been great and are appreciated.

What I am getting out of all of this is a great education, though. Can't put a price on that. :cool:

Bob

[MOP]

I more then understand, I built mine for max reliability. I was just thinking you don't want to be eating Georges spray all day!!!

[Tidbart]

Hopefully mine will be running before his. I should get a good head start.:wink:

[BigGrizzly]

Bob from some body who does a lot of this, I feel you are making the right decision. An EFI is much more difficult to work with, there are always trade offs. I did what I did because it was easier and cheaper for me, mine is a carb.

[Tidbart]

Here are some before and after photos of the bilge.
It is ready for the engine, I am working on that now. What a jigsaw puzzle. LOL

B

[Last Real Texan]

Here are some before and after photos of the bilge.
It is ready for the engine, I am working on that now. What a jigsaw puzzle. LOL

B
Wow!:shocking:Looks fantastic, wish mine looked like that! you should be very happy with that outcome

Tex suffering from bilge coat envy

[gcarter]

Bob, I'm proud of you!!!!
That looks great! :eek!:

[Cuda]

Bob from some body who does a lot of this, I feel you are making the right decision. An EFI is much more difficult to work with, there are always trade offs. I did what I did because it was easier and cheaper for me, mine is a carb.
I agree. I can help anybody out that has a carbed engine, but go to EFI, and they're on their own. :garfield:

[The Hedgehog]

At that point, why not be a member of the 80 mph club! The parts basically cost the same amount.

Well, maybe not but for a few more pennys you are there.

Yes, EFI is a pain to set up. But once you do...well ask Dr. Dan and others that have nice power EFI's. Clean and reliable.

[Tidbart]

Bob, I'm proud of you!!!!
That looks great! :eek!:

Thanks George.



At that point, why not be a member of the 80 mph club! The parts basically cost the same amount.

Well, maybe not but for a few more pennys you are there.



I am running out of pennies. :eek: I did put a lot of effort into replacing and cleaning every rusty bolt, nut, bracket, you name it. For now this is the best place for the dough. Someday....... who knows.

B

[The Hedgehog]

Thanks George.




I am running out of pennies. :eek: I did put a lot of effort into replacing and cleaning every rusty bolt, nut, bracket, you name it. For now this is the best place for the dough. Someday....... who knows.

B

I can relate to that:hangum:

Nice job on the bilge. You should have a nice platform when you get done

[BUIZILLA]

nice job Bob... :cool:

[smokediver]

Looks great Bob !!!!! :yes:

[MOP]

A real WoW job! Looks like a brandy new bilge!

Phil

[Tidbart]

:)Just about ready to drop in the motor. Rigged and ready to go.:biggrin.:

B